Female Circumcision: what's wrong with it?

Nicetohave you are a poet of sublime talent.  I will always smile from now on when I hear the phrase "undercarriage".

Previous to your post, that word carried for me only mundane connotations applicable to landing aircraft and bulldozers.

Vongauche, even if it makes no difference to a woman's sexual enjoyment/libido and is done by an expert medical doctor, why would you want to cut her clitoris anyway? To put on your rice for dinner?

What I'm asking you is the purpose of cutting it anyway? Even if it's totally harmless and whatever. Why do you have to cut it? Do you want to eat it? Can you answer that?

@IAH: I am not a cannibal. There are clearly still people in society(minus the Western world) who believe that it should be done. But there are increasingly also a number of people in such societies who feel it should be stopped as it does not reduce female libido. What I suggested was the best attempt at a Pareto optimum i.e. making someone better-off without making another worse off. Shikena!

nferyn, your analogy doesn't quite stick here. body parts are entirely unique and cannot be compared.

read with an open mind and with patience and stop jumping the gun. in my very first post on this, I said it has not been proven that the act decreases the female libido. therefore, one can assume (at least I assume) that it has not effect if and when done while the girl is a baby. Being performed by a medical practitioner should dispel any doubts about infection.

and your analogy still does not stick. so u agree that body parts are unique in their own right? Good! that means there is no basis for perfect comparison as each part must be looked at on its own. finis!

lastly, as a corollary of there being 'no effect' as I earlier assumed (which is also what IAH agreed with if only for the sake of argument), it implies that "when removed, that ability is NOT impaired."

QED



PS
what u have to prove to me is that my assumption is wrong.

goodguy, obviously the anwser has already been discusssed earlier by others.

Plenti of oyinbo but well said

VVF

Vesico Vaginal Fistula...it is an abnormal connection between the vagina and the urinary bladder...a sorry complication of female genital mutilation that results from the difficult delivery imposed by the narrowed passageway.

Aye

nferyn

1)  
exactly, there are none. and there are no controlled test which prove that FEMALE CIRCUMSISION does decrease libido. Hence, my assumption of "no effect". To pacify people who are still steeped in culture (and there are many) it can still be done provided the conditions I stated earlier are met.
2) sensation: circumcised and uncircumcised women both have heightened sensation during intercourse.  The question of who has more, is impossible to answer as it subjective.
3) analogy: there has to be at least some partial similarity between the parts described for it to be an analogy. it could be identical and or the same. the clitoris and the ear have no similarity whatsoever.
4) YES! we are both arguing using the same stick. You say I haven't brought evidence to the fact that libido is not affected. And I also say that you have not broought evidence to the fact that libido is affected except the fact that assumption that it has "millions of nerve endings" and the assumption that libido must therefore be affected.
5) much more than libido: with my earlier stated "OK conditions", trauma is non-existent because the girl is a baby. hygiene has also been dealt with. at this point in time, i cannot see any other factors which need to be considered. an extremely male approach to the question? maybe, afterall, I am male. Yes so are you but forgive me as i'm not blessed with your open-mindedness. as for pleasure, I have already dealt with that at the beginning of this post.
6) "but why?": I have not ignored IAH and goodguy's comments. I responded to both even if tacitly. The most you can accuse me of is skirting around. And i will answer the question directly; the purpose, form the eyes of those for it i.e. those who hold strong cultural beliefs is that it discourages promiscuity. I WILL NOT go into whether it is effective or not.  My concern is preserving the culture beliefs of such people while not debasing womanhood. Finis!



PS
I know that there are others on here who are not wholly against female circumcision. please give your opinions. I don't need re-inforcements you give the impression to the indifferent observer that those against female circumcision are right. Inaction is a weapon of mass destruction!

You cannot possibly make that assumption. The best you can do is say that you don't know. And as I put it in my last post:

Slavery also used to be steeped in culture. That does not make it something on which you should compromise. As I stated earlier:

You can operationalise this if you use a large enough sample in the population and normalise for other external influences. It is inter-subjective and thus you can have a meaningfull debate about it.

There is sufficient similarity, both are organs of perception, for which decreased ability does not render them useless.

1. I wasn't talking about libido here. I was talking about the physical pleasure one derives from sex., which is affected by the practice.
2. I do not need to bring evidence. As I stated earlier:


So you are not interested in the pleasure a women gets from sex? I do not see where exactly you have dealt with that.

So that's a strong enough reason for you to continue with this? Harming the bodily integrity of women, of baby girls, just to satisfy an imaginary need? A need of whom exactly? On top of that, you would need to show evidence that it is not debasing womanhood.


If you could show me a significant proportion of the educated females that are in favour of this practice, then you might have an argument. After all, it's the women that need to decide about themselves, not the men deciding for them.

Vongauche your arguments in favor of female genital mutilation are based on two patently false premises.  The first wrong assumption you have drawn regards the age at which these mutilations are inflicted.  You imply that rusty-blade genital carving is inflicted on female infants before they are old enough to realize the gravity of the injuries they will bear for life. You own stated willingness to undergo analogous amateur surgery on your person, in the hypothetical situation that you were an infant, is indicative of that incorrect assessment of the practice on your part.

The reality of female genital mutilation is that in the backward-looking cultures where such barbarity is still condoned, screaming and flailing adult or pubescent women are grappled and forcibly held down to be disfigured by illiterate self-taught butchers equipped with rusty razor blades. Your lofty talk of "hygienic surgical procedures" is simply not applicable to most of the societies that are guilty of genital mutilation, and this fact consigns the second plank of your hypothesis to the garbage-can where it belongs.  Those sterile operating room environments you allude to simply do not exist in the areas where female genital mutilation is rampant, difficult as that reality may be for you to fathom in your leafy Western suburb.

 
it is more than just cutting off the clit or worse altering the formation of some of the other organs down there, just for a mans peace of mind. female circumcision can cause problems during childbirth mostly for the mother meaning that a woman will carry a child for 9months and never get to hold it because she is dead. f.c. is a violation of human rights, the only reason men still condon this practice is because it give their trifling asses yet another scape goat when they're out creeping!! this is a very barbaric 'tradition' if it can even be called that.

in almost all parts of africa u here that females have been circumcised because they are considered impure do u think thats true. because every female as a heart u can't just say that doing a ritual will make them pure. a woman can even be unclean with and without circumcision. Do you agree with me? when your writing replies tell me whether circumcision is bad and why u think its bad. or the opposite is it good.

no way!!!!!!!!
thats out-moded we're in a modern world
----
deres a whole lot rong wit female circumcision