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TayoD (m)
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@Seun,
So are you trying to tell us that you do not agree with the article? If you do not, why not be unbiased and tell us what you think? Some dubious references were made to an NAB version of the Bible, and you didn't think to check those out before you made the write-up a subject of public discussion.
What men will do to this-prove the veracity of God's Word.
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Bobbyaf (m)
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@ Seun
This is what Jesus said in His hour of being judged by the authorities.
Matthew 26:64
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."
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Seun (m)
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And what is "in the future" from your own bible translation supposed to mean?
It's not that I disagree with the aricle I posted, but you can't attack me based on its finer points.
I just want to find out what you think about the article. I'm not responsible for it.
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TayoD (m)
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@Seun,
It's very convenient for you to take such a stand. Why don't you tell us what you think of the article you posted before asking for our opinion?
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Bobbyaf (m)
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@ Seun And what is "in the future" from your own bible translation supposed to mean?
It's not that I disagree with the aricle I posted, but you can't attack me based on its finer points.
I just want to find out what you think about the article. I'm not responsible for it. You tell me what you think it means. Besides, no one is attacking you Seun! If an article brings into disrepute the bible, then those who read objectively will find the truth. Isn't that what we are all looking for? Every person has a motive. Nothing is ever done without it. Is yours to find the truth or just to attack the bible? |
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KAG (f)
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I know, iknow, addressed to Seun, but it was interesting enough. @Seun,
May I ask you what translation of the Bible you are using? Is the NAB refering to the New American Version or the American Standard Version. I need to have this clarified. But in any case, you have misread those verses because Jesus' prophecy wasn't directed at Caiaphas or any one in the room for that matter. Jesus just mentioned an event that will happen in the future, and He didn't say when exactly and who exactly will see those. Actually it was directed at Caiaphas. See: 63 And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. 64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. However, we know Jesus is on the right hand of the majesty on high now. Stephen for one saw this when he was matyred and we know of John's revelation in the Book of Revelation. No we don't know that, and that still contradicts his implied quick return. You have only tried to play with the use of words in stating your point, but I have no doubt that if Jesus was refering to Caiphas, He would have mentioned His name. Jesus was never a coward. Frank asked me "Why do you think that argument is spurious at best?" I said to him, "I'm not speaking to you, even though I'm replying to you, because I didn't implausibly mention your name before responding…er… to you. Seriously! You are deliberately making the wrong conclusions Seun. Matthew 23:36 is not saying anything at all about Jesus second coming. It was all about how isreal mis-treated God's prophets and the fact that that generation will suffer the consequences of such action. It seems to me you are just plain mischievous by this obvious twisting of facts. Agreed Matthew 24:34 on the other hand refers to the genration that witnesses the parable of the fig tree as mentioned in verse Matthew 24:32. Again, you just need to read the Bible in context before picking phrases that suits your agenda. I would suggest that you need to read the Bible in context. Verse 34 is actually the culmination of the earlier verses starting from verse 3. Those verses show Jesus telling his disciples what to expect from the end times, and ends with Jesus telling his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled". I hope you will go back and repost or rephrase your questions again as you have only suceeded in showing a lack of scholarship and understanding of biblical terms. I will repsond as much as I feel your postings deserve a response.
Hmm |
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babyosisi (f)
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Let him who has ears hear what the Spirit is saying.
The son of man will surely return at an unexpected hour.
Man's unbelief will not keep him.
Will you be ready?
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naijacutee (f)
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I hope I do not sound pious and self-righteous but the truth is I feel nothing but pity for the humanity and the way people have so been conned by the devil in this age. I havent got the strenght to type out all I need to say on this post, nor the strenght to get involved in yet another religious conflict. What I cannot understand however is what makes it so difficult to believe the Bible hook, line and sinker?
There are passages in the Bible that explain the fact that even Jesus Himself does not know when he is coming back. And other passages (which I have cited in my earlier post) that explain what Jesus meant by saying the people he was talking to at the time would see him. This is a very simple issue and it either is or isn't. There is not need for radical disbelief on this very simple topic, if one reads and understands the Scriptures.
What is most shocking to me now, is that fellow Africans like myself, in society where radical belief in Jesus has been proven again and again to produce astonishing results, In this Society which has always been so fetish and which is unhealthy for one not to have any spiritual standing whatsoever, Africans are now turning away from the God which has brought us hope and which has so evidently saved us from our dark ages. Just because we think that everything our European counterparts do/say/believe is right. We are not looking and learning from the history of the worlds most influential countries and identifying the differences between their histories and ours.
Well, I will not say very much more, let everyman believe what he wants because it is a free world. On the last day, we will all answer for our actions. Or rather lets wait and see whether or not this 'last day' will come. Given that all the checklist of the signs which Jesus has given us are being ticked daily.
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babyosisi (f)
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naijacutie,I agree.
even so come Lord Jesus.
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KAG (f)
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I hope I do not sound pious and self-righteous but the truth is I feel nothing but pity for the humanity and the way people have so been conned by the devil in this age. I havent got the strenght to type out all I need to say on this post, nor the strenght to get involved in yet another religious conflict. What I cannot understand however is what makes it so difficult to believe the Bible hook, line and sinker? When/if you understand what makes it difficult for you to believe the Muslim Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the LDS (Mormon) Bible, and the many other texts of other religions, then you'D probably begin to understand why others of other beliefs and non-beliefs would have difficulty believing the Bible hook line and sinker. There are passages in the Bible that explain the fact that even Jesus Himself does not know when he is coming back. And other passages (which I have cited in my earlier post) that explain what Jesus meant by saying the people he was talking to at the time would see him. This is a very simple issue and it either is or isn't. There is not need for radical disbelief on this very simple topic, if one reads and understands the Scriptures. If not radical disbelief, there is a need for radical sceptism at the very least. It also becomes a problem - at least for me - when it seems probable that the alledged God incarnate not only got the time frame wrong, but somehow doesn't know when he'D be returning. Furthermore, your explanatios in no way negate what the gospels actually have Jesus prophesying - well except if you read them very liberally. What is most shocking to me now, is that fellow Africans like myself, in society where radical belief in Jesus has been proven again and again to produce astonishing results, In this Society which has always been so fetish and which is unhealthy for one not to have any spiritual standing whatsoever, Africans are now turning away from the God which has brought us hope and which has so evidently saved us from our dark ages. Just because we think that everything our European counterparts do/say/believe is right. We are not looking and learning from the history of the worlds most influential countries and identifying the differences between their histories and ours. I suppose given enough time, continents and nations do eventually arise out of stifling superstition. Well, I will not say very much more, let everyman believe what he wants because it is a free world. On the last day, we will all answer for our actions. Or rather lets wait and see whether or not this 'last day' will come. Given that all the checklist of the signs which Jesus has given us are being ticked daily.
Indeed. |
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ugonna0071 (f)
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SEUN,
SINCE You ARE AN ATHEIST, I SUGGEST You BETTER KEEP QUIET, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THINGS PERTAINIG TO CHRIST. You ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS, BUT LETS NOT TAKE THE MERCIES OF CHRIST FOR GRANTED. IF GOD WERE TO BE ACTING JUST THE WAY HE WAS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD, I GUESS YOU WOULDNT EVEN BE ALIVE TO PROOF READ UR FIRST POST.
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KAG (f)
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SEUN,
SINCE You ARE AN ATHEIST, I SUGGEST You BETTER KEEP QUIET, ESPECIALLY ABOUT THINGS PERTAINIG TO CHRIST. You ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN OPINIONS, BUT LETS NOT TAKE THE MERCIES OF CHRIST FOR GRANTED. IF GOD WERE TO BE ACTING JUST THE WAY HE WAS IN THE OLD TESTAMENT PERIOD, I GUESS YOU WOULDNT EVEN BE ALIVE TO PROOF READ UR FIRST POST. Bizarre, very bizarre. |
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ugonna0071 (f)
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how do u mean bizarre
i just feel we are taking God for granted
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tafari (m)
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For those looking for spiritual liberation outside existing religion. Try Rosicrucian Amorc,
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babyosisi (f)
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For those looking for spiritual liberation outside existing religion. Try Rosicrucian Amorc,
Wonders shall never cease |
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naijacutee (f)
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When/if you understand what makes it difficult for you to believe the Muslim Koran, the Hindu Vedas, the LDS (Mormon) Bible, and the many other texts of other religions, then you'D probably begin to understand why others of other beliefs and non-beliefs would have difficulty believing the Bible hook line and sinker. Its simple. I don't believe those books because their heroes are dead! The hero of the Bible (Jesus the Christ) is still alive and my religion (if i may call it that ) is actually a relationship with Him!If not radical disbelief, there is a need for radical sceptism at the very least. It also becomes a problem - at least for me - when it seems probable that the alledged God incarnate not only got the time frame wrong, but somehow doesn't know when he'D be returning. The fact that Jesus incarnate doesn't know when he is returning - Is that the only problem? How about all the miracles he performed and is still performing today? Jesus lived on this earth as God in a mans body but the Almighty God chose not to announce his return date for a reason. Do you think he would give you the freewill to do what you want, so that you are not reduced to an animal that has no freewill, and then tell you when he is coming so that you can live all your life as you want and then quickly repent one minute befor showdown? I think man would not even do that, therefore God deserves heaps more credit than that.
Jesus has loved us so much and he has given us clues as to when the time is close. Anyone with a bit of common sense will see that the Earth is due to be rounded up : With global warming increasing at the rate it is, do you see life as it is still existing on Earth in the next hundred years? Jesus gave us all the signs to watch out for for the end and they can be found in the Bible in Matthew 24 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=24&version=31&context=chapter I suppose given enough time, continents and nations do eventually arise out of stifling superstition. Out of the principles on which their countries were founded and which they owe their success to? |
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KAG (f)
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Its simple. I don't believe those books because their heroes are dead! The hero of the Bible (Jesus the Christ) is still alive and my religion (if i may call it that ) is actually a relationship with Him! "Every man believes that mistresses are unfaithful, and patrons capricious; but he excepts his own mistress, and his own patron." (Samuel Johnson) You may very well believe that their heroes are dead, but the proponents of those other religions, like you, believe the main protagonist(s) is/are alive. What's more thet, just like you again, have a relationship with their God(s). Perhaps you can appreciate maybe a little, the differing opinions people have of your religious canon. P.S. May of the other religions also believe the hero of your book is dead. The fact that Jesus incarnate doesn't know when he is returning - Is that the only problem? One of them, an alledged God being ignorant of his return in spite of omniscience? Illogical. How about all the miracles he performed and is still performing today? Jesus lived on this earth as God in a mans body but the Almighty God chose not to announce his return date for a reason. He, however, gave a time frame that should have fallen in the life time of his peers. Do you think he would give you the freewill to do what you want, so that you are not reduced to an animal that has no freewill, and then tell you when he is coming so that you can live all your life as you want and then quickly repent one minute befor showdown? I think man would not even do that, therefore God deserves heaps more credit than that. Freewill is a concept I find illogical, but this is neither the time nor place to discuss that. Anyway, I don't believe what you believe, so I wouldn't be do any last minute conversion because of an alledged return date. Jesus has loved us so much and he has given us clues as to when the time is close. Anyone with a bit of common sense will see that the Earth is due to be rounded up : With global warming increasing at the rate it is, do you see life as it is still existing on Earth in the next hundred years? Yes. Without reading it again, most fit into the ambiguous frame of prophesying, you know the, there will be wars - but there has always been wars, there will be famine - but famine has always existed, you get the point. Out of the principles on which their countries were founded and which they owe their success to?
If they start to choke the ability to reason and empathise collectively. Howvere, you aren't suggesting countires in Africa are successful, are you? I can only think of one or two that are "successful". |
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naijacutee (f)
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At this point I'm going to leave it to you. I'm not interested in winning this argument.
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KAG (f)
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At this point I'm going to leave it to you. I'm not interested in winning this argument.
Fair enough. |
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Seun (m)
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When I was reading the article, I realised that a Christian would be able to offer alternae interpretations to most of those verses and it would take a lot of debate to convince people of the obvious. SInce I don't have the time for such complicated debates, I decided to post the article in its entirity. I know how those verses can be misinternpreted.
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Bobbyaf (m)
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Well, let sceptics talk all they want. The bible has proven itself true over and over again. "Spiritual things are spiritually discerned"
The bible itself admonishes that we avoid vain philosophies, and such the like. Those who have a personal relationship with God have all the proof they need. Let your lives rather than your reasoning, be the means and agent of change.
Remember that the same bible has predicted that all sorts of sceptics would arise, saying all manner of things, that not even they themselves fully understand. Time will be their greatest enemy, but our friend.
Shalom.
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IDINRETE
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Sista and Jagunlabi what kind of African Spirituality are you guys into?
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