|
olabowale (m)
|
@TayoD: Catholic Website. Please Google and search for original sin and then read all your entries on the suject matter. Otherwise you are wasting my time. If I stop responding to you, it is not because that I think that you are right. Rather you have wore me out and i give up because i just can continue with you seeing that you are not paying any attention to your own writing.
On one hand, you had mentioned Original sin even as early as May. When I asked you about it, you began to exercise your 5th amendment right. My real question to you is that what is the reason that Jesus will have to take any body's sins on him especially when everyone is responsible for his/her own action. You either belief and do work of righteousness or you truly disbelief and even when you do good work, the disbelieving in you is the greater ingredient that will bar that individual from paradise.
You belief there is paradise and hellfire, no? How do you get there is only by obeying the commandment of the ONLY GOD. There is only One way in every Generation about this, There is no association of anything with worshipping THE GOD, not even the angels, any prophets (Jesus is a prophet(AS)) and then you do good work for the pleasure/sake of the ONLY ONE GOD.
I am trying to practice the PRACTISE. First I do not associate anything with THE ALMIGHTY. What you are doing is that I begin to associate anything in the person of Jesus with GOD! You will never succeed in this with me and any Muslim. (INshaAllah).
You can put the Sun in my right hand and the moon in my left . I will never come to your camp. there is no need that you continue to try to convince me. You want to remain the way you are, good for you. I will remain the way I am. Thank you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
@olabowale, While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin. It is not my fault if you can not understand what you read. However, above is the quote by babs747 that started this whole discussion. You will notice he says the religion of christianity and not catholism teaches about people inheriting an original sin. The final authority over Christians is the Bible and until you can show the quote and the doctrine form the Bible, you have only wasted your time and that of others on a baseless statement. I can say with all certainty that you do not know what you are talking about. You may keep quiet for all you want, that is better than opening your mouth in ignorance and propagating lies that have no basis. For as long as you maintain this stand and try to teach people to believe the Bible says what it does not say, then I will ever be here to antagonise you. That is a Promise! |
|
|
|
|
|
olabowale (m)
|
@TayoD: I am already gone about my business. Except that the Catholics will be happy to know from you that they are not christians. Don't you know that the protestants broke away from Catholizm and your Bible is based on the cathlic Bible. It really shows how much you know about the origin of "Christianity".
Stop wasting my time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
@olabowale, Except that the Catholics will be happy to know from you that they are not christians. Don't you know that the protestants broke away from Catholizm and your Bible is based on the cathlic Bible. It really shows how much you know about the origin of "Christianity".
I have said before that I doubt if you understand what you read. Where did I say catholics are not christians. You obviously love to read meanings into others statements that are not there. No wonder you agree that the Bible teaches the doctrine of "original sin". As long as you do not provide the Bible quote, you are nothing more than a conspiray theorists who has no idea what he is talking about. All I need to know about the origin of christianity is there in the Bible. The ideal church is observed in the Book of Acts. No where is it said that the Catholic doctrines are divinely inspired, but it is said that the scriptures are divinely inspired. What you are dwelling on is just the opinions of men which are subject to error and personal biases. Come up with biblical proofs before you can be taken seriosly. |
|
|
|
|
|
olabowale (m)
|
Can any christian help tayoD to know the relationship between Catholic sect and the Protestants, etc. Which one is first and which one is an offshoot. By the way if any one can help himto understand his porprted religion it will be nice, too.
I am very tired of him. I am trying to understand him, but it is very difficult. He does not understand and he quickly forget his own writing and fails to refer back to any when it is required.
I almost believe that he and davidylan are good for each other. hence i am ignoring them altogether.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bhola (f)
|
Olabowale, you can't run away now. Kindly stay the course of this discussion. I am sure a lot of your folks are counting on you to continue to provide proof to all the "errors" in Christianity.
TayoD, not sure if I have sent my appreciation to you yet. Oh well, here it is, good job you all are doing. Keep it up.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
@olabowale,
Keep whining in ignorance. Provide your bible quote and stop this diversion tactics which aint working. You have been revealed to be a fraud, and such is the end of people like you. Trying to put words in the Bible that are not there. What arrogance.
Let me show you what the Bible says about people like you.
Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book
Keep adding to God's Word and watch plagues multiply over your sorry soul. You still have time to repent now before it is too late.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
@Bhola,
Thanks jare. Can you imagine the effontery of this mere dust called olabowale. Trying to put words in God's mouth.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
It is not my fault if you can not understand what you read. However, above is the quote by babs747 that started this whole discussion. You will notice he says the religion of christianity and not catholism teaches about people inheriting an original sin. The final authority over Christians is the Bible and until you can show the quote and the doctrine form the Bible, you have only wasted your time and that of others on a baseless statement.
I can say with all certainty that you do not know what you are talking about. You may keep quiet for all you want, that is better than opening your mouth in ignorance and propagating lies that have no basis. For as long as you maintain this stand and try to teach people to believe the Bible says what it does not say, then I will ever be here to antagonise you. That is a Promise!
tayoD, U R trying to play smart. are u still accsuibng me of not providing evidence as par the original or inherited sin? did u read my write ups at all/ i doubt if u do because everythjing is there. why not try toi be honest and let others that are in the dark vlike you see the truth and the light.
are u trying to say there is no issue of inherited sin in the bible as laid or said by paul or u want me to resend to you aagain, i am very sure,. u r just trying to waste olabowale's time3 having seen the truth.
also did u see contr5adictions in thge bible u asked of?
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
babs787,
Why not provide the bible quote that says we inherit an original sin. If you can just provide one quotation that supports this from the Bible, then I will be obliged to take you seriously.
Why should I go on to other issues you raised when we are yet to tackle the first one you mentioned. If you can't provide biblical refernces to your first accusations, why should I bother myself trying to disprove other accusations you've made against the Bible.
Just provide the Bible quote that supports or mentions an "original sin" doctrine, then we can go on from there. If you find none, i will expect you to tender an apology for trying to mislead people, including yourself. I hope you are honorable enough to do just that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
TayoD
Now, u claimed that there is no place in the bible that mentioned inherited, read the following and go back to all my questions. U r just beating about the bush with nothing to say. Why can't u be sincere for a minute. U have seen the truth but refused accepting it.
WAS MAN BORN A SINNER?
While islam preach and propagate the sinlessness of man from birth, and attributing sin to whoever has done it alone, the religion of Christianity condemn all mankind as sinners-a perpetual sinners indeed who must inherit the original sin.
The muslim’s Holy Quran records only the doing of sin to the doer of sin in:
Quran 74v38: every soul will be held in pledge for (all) its deed
Quran 17v15: whosoever choose to follow the right path, follows it but for his own good, and whoever goes astray, did to his own hurt, and no bearer of burdens shall be made to bear another’s burden. Wherever, we would never punish (any community for the wrong they may do) until we have sent an apostle to give warning.
Quran 4v111: and if one sins, he earns it against his soul for Allah is full of knowledge and wisdom.
On the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!
The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:
Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
The sinfulness of man is thus made manifested in these verses and some unmentioned one. This doctrine is not accidental. The sinfulness of man, according to the bible, is that man is a perpetual sinner, born into sin, reared and nurtured as a sinner because in
Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
It therefore implies that, as long as man continue to be someone born of a woman, he cannot be clean! Even if he does all kind of righteous deeds until his death, he will remain unclean. This will also be applicable even if he accepted Jesus as his saviour! Why? because he would remain someone born of a woman and even though he became born again! The reason is not far-fetched, the bible says in:
Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
This inherited sinfulness of man was nurtured from the idea that Adam’s sin was later inherited by all men in:
Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.
IF U WONT AGREE WITH THESE, THEN WHICH SIN DID JESUS CAME TO DIE FOR? I BELIEVE IF U DO NOT THE ABOVE LISTED, U WILL UNDERSTAND THIS MY QUESTION.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
TayoD, what does the chapters meant and answer please
Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
WHICH ALL? AND WHAT SIN IS THAT,( NOT THE USE OF ALL)
Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
WHAT DOES THIS MEANT TOO, WHY ONE BORN OF A WOMAN BE UNCLEAN?
Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
DO JUSTICE TO THIS TOO (NOTE ALL)
Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.
EXPLAIN THE ABOVE TOO. ALL MEN HAVE SINNED. WHICH SIN IS THAT? WHEN DID ALL MEN SINNED?
HAPPY READING TAYOD
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
babs787,
You mentioned categorically that the Bible talks about original sin which is nothing but a lie. I have told you to bring forth scriptures that say that, but you went about posting the same things you posted before. I have read them, and there is nothing like original sin mentioned in those passages.
The teaching of the Bible which is glaring from all those passages when you read in context is that we all inherit a sin nature. I will explain that further if you really want to know. In the mean time, just acknowledge the Bible doesn;t say what you claim it says. That's the only way I can know that you are sincere and credible. And as your koran has said, if you have any doubts ask us who are the people of the Book:
010.094
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babyosisi (f)
|
babs787must be a new recruit since the others seem to have disappeared and olabowale is still holding on by the skin of his teeth.
How does one begin to explain the scriptures to someone comatose? eh?
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
What is your issue therein?
are you without sin
or do you think your bowings down and washing your anus and accesories with a plastic kettle and left hand has kept you from sin?
Just passing by though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
@babyosisi,
You sure made an impression for someone just passing by.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
tayoD, i don't have time for you because u have seen the turht but avoiding it, but at the same i will bring it to your awareness. check this below.
u claimed there was nothing like inherited sin from the bible, please expalin these to me then
On the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!
The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:
1. Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
QUESTION: WHO IS ALL? AND WHAT SIN IS THAT? WHY WOULD ALL HAVE SINNED?
2, Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
QUESTION; WHY WOULD MAN BORN OF A WOMAN BE UNCLEAN?
3. Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
EXPLAIN ABOVE TOO
4, Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.
QUESTION: HOW DID SIN ENTERED THE WORLD through ONE MAN. AND WHAT SIN IS THAT? AND WHAT IS THE MEANING OF ALL ALL HAVE SINNED? WHEN DID ALL SINNED AND WHY DID THEY SIN?
ANSWER THE ABOVE please OR U GO BACK TO ALL I WROTE.
GOOD LUCK
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
tayoD, i don't have time for you because u have seen the turht but avoiding it, but at the same i will bring it to your awareness. check this below.
u claimed there was nothing like inherited sin from the bible, please expalin these to me then
On the other hand, the bible came with the notion of original sin that “Jesus has redeemed the world by sacrificing his life to cancel the sin of mankind” that, that original sin was the sin inherited from Adam and Eve through birth!
The bible says concerning the inherited sinfulness of man as follows:
1. Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
QUESTION: WHO IS ALL? AND WHAT SIN IS THAT? WHY WOULD ALL HAVE SINNED?
2, Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
QUESTION; WHY WOULD MAN BORN OF A WOMAN BE UNCLEAN?
3. Isaiah 64v6: we are all as an unclean thing, and our righteousness are as filthy rags, and we all do fade as a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
EXPLAIN ABOVE TOO
4, Romans 5v12: wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men for that all have sinned.
QUESTION: HOW DID SIN ENTERED THE WORLD through ONE MAN. AND WHAT SIN IS THAT? AND WHAT IS THE MEANING OF ALL ALL HAVE SINNED? WHEN DID ALL SINNED AND WHY DID THEY SIN?
ANSWER THE ABOVE please OR U GO BACK TO ALL I WROTE.
GOOD LUCK
|
|
|
|
|
|
grafikdon
|
Interesting.
Sad that people waste their time yelling out their lungs with morbid utterances like "Accept Islam or else, " and "Accept Christ as your private Personal saviour or else, ". Nobody pays any attention to the fundamental things that fall in line with the will of the Almighty God.
We waste our time swimming on the surface of religion and flushed spiritual accent down the abyss of disintegration. Of what use is the sickening outcry over the real and fake religion when you kill your human being simply because they have a view that challenges the foundation of your religion (Take note ye hellbound spiritually indolent religious fanatics). Where is the decency and respect when you go and have sex with a married woman/man? Dou you stuff your bank account with 'stolen' money when your neighbour cannot afford three square meals? Are angry and enraged because your neighbour who was once a pauper has become wealthy out of his own sweat? Do you go to church on Sunday to exhibit 90% of your spotless firm breasts? Where's the love when you give a friend a loan only to threaten him hwen he is struggling to pay you back?
The questions are endless and we should be concerned about how to be of help to the world in general instead of blaming the infidels and non infidels for everything including erectile disfunction. Or trying to threaten people with hell fire and brimstone when they refuse to go to church and shake their booty in the name of the lord. Or goping on a killing spree in Nigeria when a man fromplanet mars draws a cartoon of Mohammed in Push up bra,
A word is enough for the wise. Cast away the bandage of religious fanaticism and spiritual indolence and you will begin to understand the world as it should be.
|
|
|
|
|
|
TayoD (m)
|
babs787,
There is a way to read the Bible. The scriptures call it line upon line, precept upon precept, a little here and a little there. But obviously I cannot expect you to understand and follow that rule.
Here is the quotation from the book of Romans in context:
5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
The issue the Bible is talking about here is the sin nature. If you notice, it is this sin nature that eventually brings death. If we do not have a sin nature, then no one will die. This sin nature is resident in our flesh and it is contrary to the will and nature of God. Perhaps you need to ask yourself one question, why is it that every man born of woman always sin. Can you mention anyone other than Jesus that lived a sinless life? Doesn't that tell you something? Even mohammed, whom you guys claim to be the best human being ever was a notorious sinner who wasn't sure if he'll keep a date with those virgins in Al-janna.
No man inherits an original sin as you have claimed ('because the Bible didn't say so), but we all inherit a sin nature. A further study in the book of Romans will reveal this concept to you better.
|
|
|
|
|
|
babs787 (m)
|
tayoD, ur quote
5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
5:13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.
5:14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come.
5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned--
baased on the above, it was said sin came into the world cus of one man which is Adam. maybe i should refresh ur mind that there was nothing like sin during Adams'era before the eating of the tree. (is tat true). and it will agree with me that t was the eating of sin that caused the banishment from the Garden. and also do u agree that if thjere had not been eating of the forbidden tree, three wouldnt have been any sin whatsoever (do u agree).
what is the meaning of ALL HAVE SINNED, WHICH ALL, WHEN DID THEY SIN? UVE NOT ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS.
AND U ALSO CLAIMED, IT WAS ONLY JESUS THAT WAS SINLESS. SHAME ON YOU, UVE NOT BEEN READIN YOUR BIBLE.
WHAT OF ALL THESE PEOPLE
Mark 6v20: herod feared John knowing that he was a righteous and holy man.
Daniel 6v4: Daniel was faithful, no error or fault was found on him.
Luke 1v16: Zechariah and his wife were both righteous.
1st Samuel 12v3-5: Samuel never oppressed…he is free from all faults.
Mathew 1v19: Joseph was a just man
Luke 2v25: simeon was devout and righteous one etc
CAN A SINNER BE RIGHTEOUS AND JUST AND DEVOTED?
U yourself KNEW AND HAS SEEN THE TRUTH BUT U R HIIDING IT. THE ISSUE OF SIN IS NOT CLEARED TO YOU YET UR BIBLE LAY EMPAHSIS ON IT. WHAT SIN DID JESUS CAME TO DIE FOR.
AND HAVE U FORGOTTEN THAT IF ADAM AND EVE HAD NOT EATEN THE FRUIT, WE WOULD ALL BE AT THE GARDEN AND THERE WOULD BE NO DEATH. BUT AS A RESULT OF THE EATING OF THE FRUIT, SIN CAME, BANISHMENT CAME BUT U CLAIMED GOD SSENT JESUS TO COME. LET ME ASK U AGAIN, WHY DID JESUS CAME, AND FOR WHAT PURPOSE.
A WAITING
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aggressa (m)
|
Dear Browneyes/Mukina2/ Firdau4u/Olabowale and other muslims, christians etc here, grab a Quran and do some research and get information on the following:
(1) The Quaran teaches that muslims must read and accept the Bible (Read Sura 5:47-52, Sura 55:69, Sura 2:53, Sura 10:94-95, Sura 4:82.
(2) The Quran testifies to the miraculous birth of Jesus through a virgin. (Sura 19:20, Sura 19:16-35); so who is His Father if not Jehovah, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel!! Thus Jesus is the Son of God
- That Jesus was without sin (Sura 19:19)
-That Jesus performed many miracles including raising people from death. (Surah 3:119, Surah 5:113, Surah 22:73)
-That Jesus ascended into heaven and He is still there. (Surah 4:158) and He is coming back.
-Quran refers to Jesus as Al-Masih i.e. the Messiah. (Surah 4:157, 171,172, Surah 9:31, Surah 3:45) Messiah means Saviour
-Quran refers to Jesus as KALIMATULLAH i.e the Word of God (Surah 4:171, Surah 3:45, Surah 19:34) and also as Ruhun-minhu or Ruhullah i.e Spirit of God (Surah 4:171, Surah 58:22.) So is the Word of God and Spirit of God part of Him or a separate entity?. If possible, you can also see Yusuf Alli's translation of the Quran, note 5365, p 1518, it states Jesus is the Very Spirit of God Himself.
(3) The Quran teaches that the followers of Jesus are superior (Read Sura 3:45 pleeaaseeeee and come on board fast)
(4) The Quran teaches that no one beside God can give life (Surah 22:73) and it also teaches that JESUS created and gave life (Surah 3:49, Surah 5:113). What does this mean?--by implication it means that Jesus must be God. From the QURAN!!!!!!
You ladies and gents sound like intelligent folks and I challenge you to read all the portions of the Quran referred to, it has been hidden from you by the imams, mullahs, and sheiks who have been preying on your ignorance but it is now revealed. In the whole of the quran there is not one verse that rejects the Bible (i.e the Taurat and the Injil or Old and New Testaments respectively) as the infallible word of God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; but as I mentioned earlier it emphasises that you must read and accept it.(Additionally; Surah 5:71-72, 5:69, 6:91, and 3:3)
Many of those who preach in your mosques know this but will rather hide it from you; TODAY has it been revealed, read (if you dare!!! I say) and You WILL NOT BOTHER TO READ THE QURAN AGAIN AFTERWARD but will get a Bible fast. Print this piece out and research it; I pray that the Holy Spirit will guide you and convict your minds as you do this. I love you with the love of God. Do not search on the internet but grab a quran. These are not reference from any internet search but from detailed research of your book which many of you do not really do.
Pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Shalom.
Wait eagerly for Part 2, it is coming soon!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
firdaus4us
|
@Havila
You are here also
You are a liar. We can you quote the verse in full?
Q3:49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
By Allah's leave!
We Muslim accept all the past Books sent down by Allah. We accept all his Prophet, we say nothing bad about them, unlike you christian, only Jesus is good, the rest not holy.
Q2:285.
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."
If u believe that because of the miraculous birth of Jesus then God is his father, what about Adam? Eve?
Better put:
God is the Father and Mother of Adam
God is the Mother of Eve and Adam is her father. Can u reason?
Creation of Jesus?
Q3:59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
Q22:73 "out of topic" Get a copy of Quran and check it.
I am very sure you never read the Quran in your life, why did u qoute from it what u know not? Q5:113 said nothing about giving life to the defunct! Not a mistake, you quoted it two times. Now your refutation below:
Q5:110.
Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'
Q5:111.
"And behold! I inspired the disciples to have faith in Me and Mine Messenger. they said, 'We have faith, and do thou bear witness that we bow to Allah as Muslims'".
Q5:112.
Behold! the disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith."
Q5:113.
They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
Q5:114.
Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."
Q5:115.
Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."
Ponder very well upon the italiced words.
Q5:47-52 didn't tell Muslims read and accept the Bible. You are a liar. Quote the verses if u are truthful!
Infact Q5:71-72 u quoted, makes us to realised that Jesus said you will be in Hell if u call him Allah. Read below the verses:
71. They thought there would be no trial (or punishment); so they became blind and deaf; yet Allah (in mercy) turned to them; yet again many of them became blind and deaf. But Allah sees well all that they do.
72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.
Q5:69 doen't even support your claim.
Q55:69 u quoted says "Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?"
Q2:53, Q10:94-95, Q4:82, Q3:3, Q6:91, non of them support your argument.
Infact Q4:82 said "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy."
Summarily, all the verses (Q2:53, Q10:94-95, Q4:82, Q3:3, Q6:91, Q5:69, Q55:69, Q5:47-52, Q5:113, Q3:49, Q5:71-72,
I still need your evidence that "The Quaran teaches that muslims must read and accept the Bible"
Jesus ascended into heaven
Yes, he ascended to the heaven by Allah's leave without being crusified contrary to your bible opinion that he was crusified.
Q4:157-159
157. That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
158. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
159. And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-
Q4:159 means on the death bed of each and everyone of you, christian, you shall be made to known by the Angel that Jesus son of Maryam was not crucified. It also means, when Jesus comes back to the surface of the earth, all christians alive then, will know that he was neither crucified nor raise from dead during his first life on earth.
Quran refers to Jesus as Al-Masih i.e. the Messiah.
Q4;171-172, didn't support you
Q4:171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
Q4:172. Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
Note the italiced words.
Q9:31 you qouted says nothing about messiah, it is even against u. Read below
"They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)."
Q4:157 has been quoted earlier. Non of the verses(Q4:157, 171,172, Q9:31, Q3:45) you qouted supports your arguments. Are you not then are a liar?.
Do u know what the Arabs called Al-masihu? Continue wallowing in hero, I may tell you later.
Quran refers to Jesus as KALIMATULLAH i.e the Word of God
We are all Kalimatullah even you. i.e Allah says be and it will definately be. Do you know the number of SPERMS your father ejaculated during intercourse with your mother? All fertilized the egg? That is Allah's word in operation.
The soul is from Allah, when we die the soul will go back to Him.
Q3:59. The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was.
Ruhun-minhu or Ruhullah i.e Spirit of God
Definately yes, Ruhu means soul. Your own soul is from who? From holy demon/ghost?
Alhamdulillahi that you still believe that Jesus is not God.
The Quran teaches that the followers of Jesus are superior
Another lie. Read below;
Q3:45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah.
Qoute the verse and I will explain better to you. I know Allah said that, even in that surah, but you didn't know the interpretation.
The Quran teaches that no one beside God can give life
For certain, nobody! But the verse, Q22:73, you qouted didn't say that.
Q22:73. O men! Here is a parable set forth! listen to it! Those on whom, besides Allah, ye call, cannot create (even) a fly, if they all met together for the purpose! and if the fly should snatch away anything from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. Feeble are those who petition and those whom they petition!
Surprisingly, you end your qoute with fallacy:
"it also teaches that JESUS created and gave life (Surah 3:49, Surah 5:113). What does this mean?--by implication it means that Jesus must be God"
Deductive Reasoning
1)If God can speak and Havila can speak, then God=Havila.
2)If Devil has eyes and Havila has eyes, then Devil=Havila
3)If Nunatics can walk and Havila can walk, then Havila is mad.
Tell me please if you need more.
We have read them and we found out that our imams, mullahs, and sheiks etc are right but YOU ARE A FOOL, DISSEMBLER and we are saved from your WILES.
|
|
|
|
|
|
4get_me (m)
|
We Muslim accept all the past Books sent down by Allah. We accept all his Prophet, we say nothing bad about them, unlike you christian, only Jesus is good, the rest not holy. Are you kidding me - that Muslims accept all the past Books and all the prophets of *Allah*? What I often read in Muslim arguments is quite to the contrary; for the claim by Muslims to accept all the Scriptures and the Prophets is superficial. Have you read the Law of Moses, the Psalms of David, the Gospel of Jesus Christ; and the inspired writings of Solomon (Qur'an 4:163)? What some Muslims cannot accept, they switch over and deny - and that's precisely what they do with those Biblical books that they cannot accept, and so claim that over time they have been changed or altered or corrupted in some way. The fact that only Jesus is good is quite evident even from the perspective of Islam. Muhammad confessed with his own lips that he was a sinner, so much so about his sins that he had to repent a hundred times a day in repentance! And which one of the 'Prophets' was half as good as Jesus? We do not deride the prophets; but it is amazing that when people have said contemptible things about Jesus, Muslims are so taciturn and shrug their shoulders like it is not their business; whereas, for a man whose sins were multiplied to a hundred times a day, there has often been riots to defend this man from the Quraish tribe called Muhammad. Infact Q5:71-72 u quoted, makes us to realised that Jesus said you will be in Hell if u call him Allah. First, that was Muhammad's thinking, and not what Jesus said. Second, if you meant the *Allah* of the Qur'an, then Jesus is most definitely not that *Allah*. Reading the Bible and the Qur'an reveals this, and there's just no substance to Muhammad's claim in the Qur'an to have been purporting that he was delivering a message from the God revealed in the Bible. Third, Jesus never said what you stated about Q5:71-72. Read it again and see that He did not say " you will be in Hell if u call him Allah", for the supposed quotation of Jesus you referenced in that verse ends with ". . .your Lord", as highlighted and emboldened in red -- 72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help. It doesn't help to put words in Jesus' mouth while you're trying to correct another! Jesus ascended into heaven. Yes, he ascended to the heaven by Allah's leave without being crusified contrary to your bible opinion that he was crusified. If the crucifixion of Christ was merely somebody's opinion, then the Qur'an was merely Muhammad's opinion. Why? Because the Qur'an states that *Allah* gave the Psalms to David in Q.4:163. This is what one of those Psalms says: "For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet" (Psa. 22:16). Question: who was being "pierced" in hands and feet other than Jesus on the Cross? So, it's either you didn't get it right; or by denying that the Psalms stated what it did, you also deny that the Qur'an claimed what *Allah* stated in Q.4:163. Q4:159 means on the death bed of each and everyone of you, christian, you shall be made to known by the Angel that Jesus son of Maryam was not crucified. It also means, when Jesus comes back to the surface of the earth, all christians alive then, will know that he was neither crucified nor raise from dead during his first life on earth. Q.19:33-34. 33 "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! 34 Such (was) Jesus the son of Mary: (it is) a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. As stated above, the Qur'an endorses the Psalms of David, and one of such Psalms records that Jesus was actually pierced in hands and feet. There is no dispute about this, unless those who cannot accept what the Qur'an states about the Psalms have to deny it and by so doing disavow the claims of *Allah* in that text. Q9:31 you qouted says nothing about messiah, it is even against u. Read below
"They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One Allah. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him)." I'm surprised that it is a serious offence to associate partners with *Allah* in the Qur'an, and yet, that is precisely what the Qur'an has done in large proportions. If there are no partners with *Allah* in the Qur'an, then who are those who are claiming to have done the work of creation in the following texts in the Qur'an? -- Q.15:26 - " We created man from sounding clay, from mud moulded into shape." Q.19:67 - "But does not man call to mind that We created him before out of nothing?" The Qur'an says "there is nothing whatever like unto Him" (Q.42:11); so the question is: who then could have been claiming to do the same work of creation as the Creator Himself, according to the same Qur'an? Who are the " WE" in " We created" in the texts above - *Allah* alone; or *Allah* and those nameless spirits associating themselves with him? The texts are clear - " We created" - so who is the " WE" that are associating themselves with this *Allah* of the Qur'an, and yet calling it a blashpemy for others to do so? We have read them and we found out that our imams, mullahs, and sheiks etc are right but YOU ARE A FOOL, DISSEMBLER and we are saved from your WILES. Not surprising, that those who are "right" can be so derisive at others.  |
|
|
|
|
|
firdaus4us
|
@4get_me
If I decide not to respond to your post it may mean i forget you but I forget you not.
Your bible is not the book God sent down to any prophet. Is it Jesus that compile them like that? Putting moses book, solomon, etc and called some old and his own new?
Only God is infallible.
Romans 3v23: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Jesus is born by a woman, mary, hence he(Jesus) is not free from sins.
Job 25v4: how can man be justified with God? Or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?
Q5:71-72, means you will end your life in HELL if call Jesus Allah. Please proof me otherwise from that verse!
You said
It doesn't help to put words in Jesus' mouth while you're trying to correct another!
You are acusing yourselves and other christians. If not, please qoute the verse in the bible for me where Jesus said you should take him AS YOUR LORD AND PERSONAL SAVIOUR.
Have you ever read Song of Solomon? That chapter is very good for hunting a girl? In the bible?
I don't argue with you in whatever your bible says. Don't worry, you are free to believe in it/them.
Q.19:33-34 you qouted didn't mean Jesus die.
Explanation
1) those words are all in past tense, has he died when he was uttering them?
2)just a prayer for himself.
3)you too are free to make such a prayer for yourself and your children as I normally do.
4)"die" in that verse means when he come to the surface of the earth again to die normal death. You doubt it?
5)he said the day I die not the day I kill.
6)"the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)" means the day of judgement when all shall be raised including you.
7)some prophets also make the same prayer . Read the verses below
Q9:11. So Zakariya came out to his people from him chamber: He told them by signs to celebrate Allah.s praises in the morning and in the evening.
Q9:12. (To his son came the command): "O Yahya! take hold of the Book with might": and We gave him Wisdom even as a youth,
Q9:13. And piety (for all creatures) as from Us, and purity: He was devout,
Q9:14. And kind to his parents, and he was not overbearing or rebellious.
Q9:15. So Peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life (again)!
WE
Please consult your dictionary to know different meaning of WE.
e.g
Also called the royal we. (used by a sovereign, or by other high officials and dignitaries, in place of I in formal speech): We do not wear this crown without humility
source
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
|
|
|
|
|
|
4get_me (m)
|
@firdaus4us,
Your opening lines are as confused as your trademark, so please don't make it any worse in a public Forum.
"The Bible is not the Book that God sent down to any prophet" - so your Qur'an is blowing lies like no man's business, or was it rather a magazine that was sent? Did *Allah* in the Qur'an not categorically state that he/they sent down, reveal and confirm the books of the Biblical prophets? Let me remind you -
When were the Law and the Gospel revealed? Q.3:65 >> "Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?"
First, the People of the Book are Christians, yes or no?
Second, "the Book" is the Bible - yes or no?
Next, the Law and the Gospel are specific books of the Bible - yes or no?
Plus, we have understanding and that's why we don't swallow everything Muhammad claimed without asking questions, thank you.
Do you really read your Qur'an at all?
Q.3:84
>>Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
Q.2:136
>>Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
"All the prophets" surely includes those not mentioned by name - Isaiah, Micah, Zechariah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel. . . Malachi. It is either you believe those statements in the Qur'an, or deny them altogether and prove to yourself that the Qur'an was not telling the truth. Which brings about some interesting questions -
(a) what exactly were revealed and contained in the Books given to Moses and Jesus?
(b) if you have no idea at all what the 'original' Books contained, why all the noise and denials that you can't sustain?
(c) are the "Books" given to Moses and to Jesus different from the same Law of Moses and Gospel of Jesus that Muhammad praised in his day - which same have remained until today?
(d) are you forgetting Islamic history that God never sent down any "book" to Muhammad, but the Qur'an was merely written down by the hands of men?
Now, it is interesting that you'd have to consult Random House to explain how *Allah* associated himself with his angels in stating "We created man". The emphasis is on the work done - "create" - and once you lose the meaning of that, then the confusion continues perennially in the Qur'an as to who actually is the Creator. The work of creation is shared by no one else because that is a prerogative specially reserved for God, just as in the case of worship and prayer. Now if this idea of the "We" as explained by Random House et al is all there is to the polytheistic leanings of that Qur'anic verse, then one has to wonder that there's nothing special that distinguishes the *Allah* of the Qur'an from the ordinary affairs of men!
|
|
|
|
|
|
babyosisi (f)
|
4get_me.
do you really expect him to understand?.
Do you cast pearls to the swine?
Except the Lord opens his eyes He will continue to lack understanding.
Professing themselves to be wise,they became fools.
|
|
|
|
|
|
4get_me (m)
|
Nne, I tire for the bobo O!  My friend's uncle was the first from whom I heard that common sense is not so common - now I see it demonstrated, but still pray and offer reason by persuasion. . . who knows, perhaps his heart may be touched. |
|
|
|
|
|
babyosisi (f)
|
The scriptures say that no word of God goes unwasted.
It must accomplish it's purpose.
He has heard the gospel so has no more excuse.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bhola (f)
|
Hope they learn. They sure have heard.
Welcome back, 4get_me. Nice to have you back.
|
|
|
|
|
|
4get_me (m)
|
Ah-ah, B-babe. . . how far? I'm still not back to base, but we're having a week's break and so we can play. Hope to see ya say in about a forthnight when I get back. Trust you're doing okay? |
|
|
|
|
|
Bhola (f)
|
Ahhhh, nice 4get_me. Will be glad to have you back. Guess there is a lot to talk about.
|
|
|
|
|
|
4get_me (m)
|
Hmmm. . . lol. I agree. I haven't been much in touch with the other chaps - but will talk to y'all later tonight, I hope. Everyone's been so busy. Okay, t2u L8r, abi? |
|
|
|
|
|
![Nairaland [Nigerian Forum] Home](http://www.nairaland.com/Themes/default/images/english/home.gif)
Author
