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SirJohn (m)
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Malachi 3:10-12 probably is one of the most popular bible passages today. This is no surprise at all as it is constantly brandished by pastors and several other church leaders for whatever purpose they hope to achieve.
I do not intend to start another endless debate on whether or not tithing is for the new testament Christian; I just have few questions for the proponents of tithing:
Malachi 3:10-12
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.
12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith the LORD of hosts.
If this passage plus the claims of some clergymen are anything to go by, there should hardly be any hungry tither in the world; so here are my questions:
1. Can you say that true tithe payers always have this ‘open heaven’ experience?
2. What can possibly be the explanation for poor tithe payers struggling to make a living?
3. ‘And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes’ pastors have used this passage to mean that true tithe payers are always
exempted from seasons of lack, misfortune and unwanted loss, is this true?
4. What blessing is exclusive for the tithe payer which non-tithe payers like me and kunleOshob cannot enjoy?
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SirJohn (m)
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Where are all the tithe advocates? I need your answers on this one
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KunleOshob (m)
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@SirJohn
I won't bother asking them if i were you. Most of them falsely claim that they receive blessings as a result of tithing but the truth is that they are not in any way better off than non tithers. The real reason why they tithe is because of the fear their pastors have put in their hearts for not tithing. This is due to gross ignorance and naivety. They don't even know how the bible defines and explains tithes or what it was meant for. all they know is the distorted variation they have been fed with by some crooked or ignorant pastor. And even when you show them the bible based truth about tithes they are so deeply brainwashed that they try and start distorting the bible and and quoting scriptures out of context to justify their stupidity.
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pinky lady (f)
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@kunleoshob
you are only saying this b/cos your understanding has not yet open to the mystry concerning tithe.
the bible clearly states that we should bring all tithes to the house of the lord so that they would be
food in the vine yard of God. i just pray that your understanding open some day concerning this.
in answer to your question
1. there is no how somebody would pay his tithe with a joyful heart without having an open heaven
2. the possible explanation for poor tithe payers struggling to make a living might be either there are not paying up to the reqiured amount which is
one-tenth. and may i remind you that a tithe that is not up to one-tenth can not be called a tithe so its as good as saying that such a person has not paid his tithe
3. in answer to your no. 3 question, its true, God through his word which is the Bible clearly states that devourers will not attack those who pay their tithe faithfully
4. only God knows how to deal with the non tithe payers
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Pastor AIO
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@kunleoshob
you are only saying this b/cos your understanding has not yet open to the mystry concerning tithe.
Na wa o! So Tithe na mystery now. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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Na wa o! So Tithe na mystery now.
trust those cunning pastors to come up with such terminologies, how else would they make the brainwashing complete if they don't keep their sheeple in the dark by alleging mystery. The truth is so glaring in the bible and pastors don't like this so they have to come up with such terms to keep their customers captive. |
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obinna5000 (m)
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Tithe has never been a mystery or a myth.
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KunleOshob (m)
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@kunleoshob
you are only saying this b/cos your understanding has not yet open to the mystry concerning tithe.
the bible clearly states that we should bring all tithes to the house of the lord so that they would be
food in the vine yard of God. i just pray that your understanding open some day concerning this.
I just read your post again, do you people ever bother to read your bibles at all or you just swallow what your pastor tells you without verifying from the scriptures? how does food in my house translate to money or income, cos malachi was not talking in parables here? And when the food is in God's house do you know that God directed the tither to eat of it with his family( deut 14 : 25-26) Maybe that is the mystery of tithes which you don't know and your pastor that knows it is not telling you. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO EAT YOUR TITHES IN THE HOUSE OF GOD!!!!! |
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SirJohn (m)
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1. there is no how somebody would pay his tithe with a joyful heart without having an open heaven
So whats your definition of an 'open heaven'; Good health, peace of mind, promotion, breakthrough, prosperity? 2. the possible explanation for poor tithe payers struggling to make a living might be either there are not paying up to the reqiured amount which is
one-tenth. and may i remind you that a tithe that is not up to one-tenth can not be called a tithe so its as good as saying that such a person has not paid his tithe
Listen to yourself!! thats about the dumbest thing I ever heard. So are you saying categorically that poor tithers dont get open heaven because they're not paying the full 10%? I think I recomend hard work and diligence for them!! 3. in answer to your no. 3 question, its true, God through his word which is the Bible clearly states that devourers will not attack those who pay their tithe faithfully
So if a brother tells me he was robbed or that he lost some amount of money or that a business deal went bad, I can conclude from that that he must not have been paying his tithe faithfully right? 4. only God knows how to deal with the non tithe payers
I thought the devourer was supposed to eat up their finances and health |
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pinky lady (f)
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@poster
there is no point arguing with you guys, all i know is that God
through the Bible commanded that tithes should be paid,
correctly and with a joyfull heart, i wonder what your problem
is concerning the payment of tithes, if don't believe don't,
cos i don't see any reason why you should discourage people
from doing what they believe in. but as christains our main
priority is to walk according to the commandment of God.
all peace.
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SirJohn (m)
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@poster
there is no point arguing with you guys, all i know is that God
through the Bible commanded that tithes should be paid,
correctly and with a joyfull heart, i wonder what your problem
is concerning the payment of tithes, if don't believe don't,
cos i don't see any reason why you should discourage people
from doing what they believe in. but as christains our main
priority is to walk according to the commandment of God.
all peace.
One down, next please  |
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KunleOshob (m)
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@poster
there is no point arguing with you guys, all i know is that God
through the Bible commanded that tithes should be paid,
correctly and with a joyfull heart, i wonder what your problem
is concerning the payment of tithes, if don't believe don't,
cos i don't see any reason why you should discourage people
from doing what they believe in. but as christains our main
priority is to walk according to the commandment of God.
all peace.
That is my problem with you people that are being mis-guided, there is NO were in the bible that commanded any body to "pay" tithes. The instruction was to "bring" (cos it was NOT money) it to the house of God. The tither was also required to eat of the tithe with his family this would not be possible if it were money. On the commandment of God issue, it was commanded to the jewish people, not gentiles and definitely NOT christians. And if you truely want to keep the commandment then i suggest you observe it the bible prescribed in deut 14:22-29 and not how our mordern days pastors have manipulated it to be practised. |
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chukwudi44
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TiTHING IS NOT AND WILL NEVER A CHRISTIAN PRACTISE.JESUS AND THE APOSTLES NEVER PRACTISED TITHING.IT IS JEWISH PRACTISE WHICH SHOULD BE CONFINED TO THE TRASH CAN AS CLEARLY SAID HEB7:8.EPHE 2:15
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SirJohn (m)
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Hey guys, I think enough threads on this forum have done justice to wether or not we should tithe today. I really dont think we should go over that again, abi Bro Kunle you never try reach?
I know why I asked the question on this thread; I really dont expect any answer far from what pinky lady has given, but for the benefit of doubt, I'll still wait to see.
As far as these pastors are concerned, theres always something you're not doing right; if its not that you didn't give full 10%, then it will be that you dont have enough faith. Its a 'gospel of blame' that almost always shifts the blame on its adherents.
I await more answers!!
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KunleOshob (m)
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TiTHING IS NOT AND WILL NEVER A CHRISTIAN PRACTISE.JESUS AND THE APOSTLES NEVER PRACTISED TITHING.IT IS JEWISH PRACTISE WHICH SHOULD BE CONFINED TO THE TRASH CAN AS CLEARLY SAID HEB7:8.EPHE 2:15
The hebrew verse that you want that TOTALLY abolished tithes is HEB 7 : 11,12 & 18 |
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KunleOshob (m)
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Hey guys, I think enough threads on this forum have done justice to wether or not we should tithe today. I really dont think we should go over that again, abi Bro Kunle you never try reach?
I know why I asked the question on this thread; I really dont expect any answer far from what pinky lady has given, but for the benefit of doubt, I'll still wait to see.
As far as these pastors are concerned, theres always something you're not doing right; if its not that you didn't give full 10%, then it will be that you dont have enough faith. Its a 'gospel of blame' that almost always shifts the blame on its adherents.
I await more answers!!
Abi oh, they now came up with this unbiblical concept of "faithful" tithing. there excuse for people who tithe that were not being blessed was that they were not tithing faithfully enough. and faithfull tithing was defined to mean tithing from every income you receive and even gifts that you are given. These crooks teach that you should findout the monetary value of gifts you received and pay a tithe of the value to them. Can you imagine how evil and wicked that is? to be telling someone that is lacking to be giving more to your own purse. It was the early christian leaders that took care of those who lacked financially amongst them. Acts 4 : 32-35 Acts 4:32-35: 32Now the company of believers was of one heart and soul, and not one of them claimed that anything which he possessed was [exclusively] his own, but everything they had was in common and for the use of all. 33And with great strength and ability and power the apostles delivered their testimony to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace (loving-kindness and favor and goodwill) rested richly upon them all. 34 Nor was there a destitute or needy person among them, for as many as were owners of lands or houses proceeded to sell them, and one by one they brought (gave back) the amount received from the sales 35And laid it at the feet of the apostles (special messengers). Then distribution was made according as anyone had need. |
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debosky (m)
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I will give my personal opinion on the matter. First of all, there is nothing that you can do to eliminate all forms of afflictions and troubles - all men will pass through this at one point or another. What we are assured of, is that none of these things can separate us from the love of Christ. I wouldn't call myself an 'advocate' of tithing, I simply reject the notion that by a personal and willing decision to give 10% of my income on a regular basis as I have decided in my heart is being condemned by some. Let there be no doubt - even in the new testament, he who sows bountifully will reap bountifully and he who sows sparingly will reap sparingly. 'Tithing' or giving 10% (or any other amount for that matter) is simply a pathway, a tool to be used to achieve God's admonition that we should be givers. Please read the following article by John Piper. It explains my views in principle. That said, let me now go to your 'questions'. 1. Can you say that true tithe payers always have this ‘open heaven’ experience? Giving is not the only requirement of an 'open heaven', nor is it the prime determinant. Most of the blessings from God are showers of grace, not by achievement. 2. What can possibly be the explanation for poor tithe payers struggling to make a living? The above applies as well - Tithing is not the central principle of Christian living. Tithing but being lazy and slothful will not bring good living. A wholesome Christian life will enable you to live well in most cases, but even that doesn't always work! 3. ‘And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes’ pastors have used this passage to mean that true tithe payers are always
exempted from seasons of lack, misfortune and unwanted loss, is this true? I don't know what 'pastors' you refer to, but I have not been privy nor do I believe any such doctrine. Time and chance happens to all men, and all will pass through some form of difficulty. 4. What blessing is exclusive for the tithe payer which non-tithe payers like me and kunleOshob cannot enjoy? I do not know of any 'exclusive' blessings. What I do know is, what you sow is what you will reap. As mentioned above, this plays a small part in the overall basket of gracious love showered unto us by the Father. |
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SirJohn (m)
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Abi oh, they now came up with this unbiblical concept of "faithful" tithing. there excuse for people who tithe that were not being blessed was that they were not tithing faithfully enough. and faithfull tithing was defined to mean tithing from every income you receive and even gifts that you are given. These crooks teach that you should findout the monetary value of gifts you received and pay a tithe of the value to them. Can you imagine how evil and wicked that is? to be telling someone that is lacking to be giving more to your own purse. It was the early christian leaders that took care of those who lacked financially amongst them. Acts 4 : 32-3
Its so sad when I remember that I once taught and practiced this lie, I so wish I can unteach some of this folks |
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marvis joy
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in my area ,we have so many rich hausa muslims and also Aliko Dangote,they are stinkly rich ,are they paying tithe? so no pastor should brain wash anybody again for not tithing cos its not Biblical. your Tithe is to be eaten between you and your family in Gods house. SHIKENA
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SirJohn (m)
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I will give my personal opinion on the matter. First of all, there is nothing that you can do to eliminate all forms of afflictions and troubles - all men will pass through this at one point or another. What we are assured of, is that none of these things can separate us from the love of Christ. I wouldn't call myself an 'advocate' of tithing, I simply reject the notion that by a personal and willing decision to give 10% of my income on a regular basis as I have decided in my heart is being condemned by some. Let there be no doubt - even in the new testament, he who sows bountifully will reap bountifully and he who sows sparingly will reap sparingly. 'Tithing' or giving 10% (or any other amount for that matter) is simply a pathway, a tool to be used to achieve God's admonition that we should be givers. Please read the following article by John Piper. It explains my views in principle. That said, let me now go to your 'questions'. Giving is not the only requirement of an 'open heaven', nor is it the prime determinant. Most of the blessings from God are showers of grace, not by achievement. The above applies as well - Tithing is not the central principle of Christian living. Tithing but being lazy and slothful will not bring good living. A wholesome Christian life will enable you to live well in most cases, but even that doesn't always work! I don't know what 'pastors' you refer to, but I have not been privy nor do I believe any such doctrine. Time and chance happens to all men, and all will pass through some form of difficulty. I do not know of any 'exclusive' blessings. What I do know is, what you sow is what you will reap. As mentioned above, this plays a small part in the overall basket of gracious love showered unto us by the Father. If I understand your opinion correctly, the 'open heaven' of Malachi 3 does not apply only to faithful tithers nor does the 'devourer' apply only to non-faithful tithers. We get rewarded for hard work, faithfulness and diligence and God in his mercies and sovereign will blesses us accordinly; am I correct? |
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KunleOshob (m)
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I wouldn't call myself an 'advocate' of tithing, I simply reject the notion that by a personal and willing decision to give 10% of my income on a regular basis as I have decided in my heart is being condemned by some.
No body is condenming a personal and willing decision to tithe. what we are condenming is the deceitful and manipulative way pastors preach and define tithing. Most people are being deceived into tithing and they believe this men becos they are seen as men of God who would always speak the truth. This is abuse of the church of the highest order and as a christian it is my duty to condenm such a practise and tell my brethren the truth |
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debosky (m)
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If I understand your opinion correctly, the 'open heaven' of Malachi 3 does not apply only to faithful tithers nor does the 'devourer' apply only to non-faithful tithers. We get rewarded for hard work, faithfulness and diligence and God in his mercies and sovereign will blesses us accordinly; am I correct?
Exactly - to base your entire faith on ONE scripture describing ONE aspect of our relationship with God is bound to lead to distortions. Viewing 'the tithe' or whatever name you choose to give it within the realms of new testament giving will achieve a wholesome view. @ Kunle I have no beef with your quest - ANY distortions of the Word of God should be exposed and dealt with. But make sure you get the appropriate message across without undue antagonism. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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@ Kunle
I have no beef with your quest - ANY distortions of the Word of God should be exposed and dealt with. But make sure you get the appropriate message across without undue antagonism.
I do appreciate your comments but what really nauseates me is when people that have little or no knowledge of the word apart from what "pastor said" start misquoting the bible they have noy read and raining curses on non tithers. The also give false witness that they are being blessed cos of tithes when it is so glaring that they are not in any way better off than non tithers. What i hope to do is challenge people to really study the bible( especially the new testament) and you would see christianity in a whole new perspective. THESE IGNORANCE MUST STOP!!! |
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Image123 (m)
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Must you brainwash my fellow nairalanders by continously opening anti tithe threads.If e dey pain you,just turn the other way now.As my football loving friends will say "Tithe for life"
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KunleOshob (m)
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Must you brainwash my fellow nairalanders by continously opening anti tithe threads.If e dey pain you,just turn the other way now.As my football loving friends will say "Tithe for life"
We know the people doing the brainwashing as far as tithing is concerned and we anti tithers are on a mission to set the captives fre by revealing the SCRIPTURAL TRUTH about tithes to fellow brethen all over the world ( not onlt on nairaland) believe me the message is catching on. Believe me on this crusade i have been personally responsible for freeing thousands from the shackles and burdens of that scam called tithing and by the special grace of God this message shall reach millions in every corner of the earth. It is the crooks that preach tithing that would have to seek forgiveness and redemption when the whole world knows the truth. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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"Tithe for life"
Evidently you must be one of the crooks benefitting from this scam else you wouldn't be still so enthusiatic about it despite the overwhelming evidence that it is a fraudulent doctrine. |
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MrCrackles (m)
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Evidently you must be one of the crooks benefitting from this scam else you wouldn't be still so enthusiatic about it despite the overwhelming evidence that it is a fraudulent doctrine.
GBAM! |
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SirJohn (m)
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Must you brainwash my fellow nairalanders by continously opening anti tithe threads.If e dey pain you,just turn the other way now.As my football loving friends will say "Tithe for life"
I think the question here is very simple besides, I have stated that this thread is not to establish wether or not we should tight tithe. Some of you have said that we are supposed to tithe while some of us say we are not under any such obligation. So I said no problem, since you want to part with your 10% and we dont, kindly tell us whats in for you that we 'disobedient' non- tighters tithers cant partake in. Also, how come we have poor and sickly tithers when Malachi 3:10 promised an open heaven for them? Are you also asserting like most tithers that you do not experience any form of misfortune no matter how small? |
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Image123 (m)
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@kunleOshob We know the people doing the brainwashing as far as tithing is concerned and we anti tithers are on a mission to set the captives fre by revealing the SCRIPTURAL TRUTH about tithes to fellow brethen all over the world ( not onlt on nairaland) believe me the message is catching on. Believe me on this crusade i have been personally responsible for freeing thousands from the shackles and burdens of that scam called tithing and by the special grace of God this message shall reach millions in every corner of the earth. It is the crooks that preach tithing that would have to seek forgiveness and redemption when the whole world knows the truth. o my gawd,are you in trouble |
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Image123 (m)
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Evidently you must be one of the crooks benefitting from this scam else you wouldn't be still so enthusiatic about it despite the overwhelming evidence that it is a fraudulent doctrine. Evidence my foot.False teaching is no evidence.the word of God is.Matthew23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Those are the Words of God.That settles it for me |
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Image123 (m)
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@SirJohn I think the question here is very simple besides, I have stated that this thread is not to establish wether or not we should tight tithe. Some of you have said that we are supposed to tithe while some of us say we are not under any such obligation. So I said no problem, since you want to part with your 10% and we dont, kindly tell us whats in for you that we 'disobedient' non-tighters tithers cant partake in. Also, how come we have poor and sickly tithers when Malachi 3:10 promised an open heaven for them? Are you also asserting like most tithers that you do not experience any form of misfortune no matter how small? Why are some christians poor and sick even though they are children of God?Is the word of God wrong when it promises peace and abundance to God's children.The problem is not with the Lord,the problem is always with man.Christians don't live on a single passage.they survive on the whole of it.doing God's will |
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