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olabowale (m)
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Nezan cant read anything. Yet he truncated a story and just gave us a middle part at best passing up as a full story. And when the full story is presented, he says; please olabowale, what are you saying?
Typical keferi guy always play possom when its convenient.
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sleek29 (m)
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@olabowale, does all of that refute the fact that there's death penalty for apostates except they reverse their decision?
are you saying that people are not killed for apostacy in the middle east?
are you saying that only the life those who ask for forgiveness should be spared?
cuz i don't understand all the rubbish you just pasted, accept the truth the punishment for apostacy in islam is death by hanging confirmed by islamic scholars and even practiced in islamic societies.
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Abuzola (m)
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The heart is sealed. No explanation will make them understand except by Allah's will
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Nezan (m)
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I dont know why muslims are easily ashamed of their practices. Is it not an offence, punishable by death to renounce islam? was a whole family not killed in Indonesia for renouncing islam?
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olabowale (m)
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@Sleek29 and Nezan: It seems to me at least, that you guys can see through your lead glasses! A person is not killed merely for renouncing Islam. Period. If a person who used to be muslim is killed after he is no more Muslim, there are other reasons for the killing and it will never be because he merely left Islam. Period.
It may be that he began to malign Islam and he refuses to stop after he has been warned, repeatedly. Other reasons, at least one of them may be that he is seen as an evildoer, and a means of bringing chaos into the society. His renouncing Islam is at least equals in degree of evilness to a person who continues to unjustly kill innocent souls, with remorse and no intent to stop doing it. Should such a person be allowed to remain in a society that her people wish peace and no discourse? No. That might have been the case of the malaysian family or the Middle eastern countries that you keep beating their drums ever so loudly! I do not know, and I do not live in these societies to know the truth, the mindset of their population, and reason for killing the apostates!
One thing I know is that there is no sin greater than disbelief in One GOD ALLAH! And in the secular societies and individual persons anywhere in the world can be pushed enough by the evildoer(s), that this most meek person in the most liberal society can turn deadly and kill of the person who is not relenting on doing evil!
And all and any of the evil that that man is killed for is less, and definitely not as great as DISBELIEF in ALLAH!.
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olabowale (m)
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Thank you. Abuzola has more knowledge than me. My presentation is based on my knowledge. I do know that not everyone who left Islam is to be killed the moment that he leaves Islam. If that is the case it will go against 2 verses of Quran and there would have been abrogations of them. But at least one of them, 2: 256 is a almost at the end of revelation revealed verse!
The other verse states about people renouncing and coming back, again, until it seems as if t is a play/game! Now could that have been possible if killing is ordained the moment the person left Islam for the very first time? Obviously, not.
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Nezan (m)
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Then why kill a whole family in Indonesia for renouncing islam?
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olabowale (m)
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Nezan does not read. The below was from my fisrt post this morning:
One thing I know is that there is no sin greater than disbelief in One GOD ALLAH! And in the secular societies and individual persons anywhere in the world can be pushed enough by the evildoer(s), that this most meek person in the most liberal society can turn deadly and kill of the person who is not relenting on doing evil!
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olabowale (m)
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Other reasons, at least one of them may be that he is seen as an evildoer, and a means of bringing chaos into the society. His renouncing Islam is at least equals in degree of evilness to a person who continues to unjustly kill innocent souls, with remorse and no intent to stop doing it. Should such a person be allowed to remain in a society that her people wish peace and no discourse? No. That might have been the case of the malaysian family or the Middle eastern countries that you keep beating their drums ever so loudly! I do not know, and I do not live in these societies to know the truth, the mindset of their population, and reason for killing the apostates!
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Nezan (m)
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Simple question- do islam sanction the murder of apostates? true or false? not all that long write-ups.
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dexmond
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@NEZAN My brother, the question is not about Olabowale been economical with the truth or not. The fact remains, how little the professors of the Islamic faith knew about their religion. Thank God for the religion thread that has challenged them to at least search their scriptures to see some revelations that hitherto were not known. The hadd (islamic punishment) for apostasy is death. There is an aparent contradiction on what to do. Tha hadith. Abd-Allah ibn Masood said: The Messenger of Allah said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am the Messenger of Allah, except in one of three cases: a soul (in case of murder); a married person who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and separates from the main body of Muslims.” Sahih Al Bukhary number 6484 and Sahih Muslim number 1676 The quran. Sura 109: 1-6 Say : O ye that reject Faith! I worship not that which ye worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, Nor will ye worship that which I worship. To you be your Way, and to me mine What should we do? The sunna of allah's apostle said the person should die, but the quran the word of allah said "to you be your way" |
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Abuzola (m)
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@last poster: you are the confussed one. Suratul kafr was revealed to Prophet Muhammad when the idolaters summoned him for concession and said they will worship Allah for a specific months and Muhammad too to worship their idol for a specific months, e.g 5 months for each party, then this was revealed:.
'say (o muhammad) ' o disbelievers'. I worship not that which you worship, nor will you worship that which i worship. And i shall not worship that which you are worshipping. Nor will you worship that which i worship. To you be your religion and to me my religion ' Quran 109
what elder olabowale is disemilating is the same thing i am saying, you are getting things mixed up
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dexmond
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@Abuzola
Thanks for the historical persperctive. But why then does the quran say there is no compulsion in islam? Does allah not mean what he said?
Surat2:256
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Abuzola (m)
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No compulsion in Islam is simple as ABC. You can't force the christian, jew and hindu to accept Islam, Allah said 'lakun deenukum waliyadeen' your religion for you and my religion for me. An apostate is a convert. Get it
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dexmond
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what about people who were born into a muslim home who leave islam? Is it their fault to have been born so?
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Abuzola (m)
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Nay, if you want to convert to otherwise then leave the Sharia law state and convert, no one will disturb you even in muslim majority territory once there is no sharia law, e.g Turkey, Kenya, Egypt etc
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dexmond
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But the sharia is not applicable in today's society. Moreover, it has never been applied in muslim countries except to oppress the poor.
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olabowale (m)
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@dexmond: Sharia is applicable, all the time! It will be the same thing or even less in gravity in application and importance to man, as to say food is not applicable and needed by a person who is healthy, when you delared that Sharia is not applicable in today's society! If sharia is applied in New York City, right now, all the nudity will not be as overt as it is now. Overt evilness will not be looked at without a frowning of the eyes and the conscience questioning its irrationality!
I bet that you, dexmond, will wish for sharia when some gangsters torment your previously peaceful and safe neighborhood, when they robbed, raped, etc your properties and women and persons. Please I am not wishing it on anyone, but I have just to let you know how consequential it is to not have this safety net, Sharia. It will not guarantee 100% good behavior, but it will not condone any, and the victim can count on it for justice, while the offender can expect it to meter the due punishment!
The only thing that I agree with you is the pitfall of what the muslims find his community in, behaving almost exactly like the Jews and the Christians in their punishment and mercy process. Those who are in power should be punished when they are the offenders, while the poor should receive, for the most part forgiven for the reasons that are their circumstances and be protected from being repeat offenders.
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dexmond
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@olabowale
I actually desire to see a decent society. But the shariah is not the solution. You know it is nearly impossible to adapt the shariah to this modern age.
Al-Daarqatni quoted Muhammad in the Sunan as having said, "Neither the slaves nor the people of the Book are under any huduud." This hadith means that if a Muslim deliberately kills another Muslim, he will receive capital punishment . But if a Christian deliberately kills a Muslim, he will not receive legal punishment , but a less severe punishment (taziir), which is basically a heavy beating.
Ayesha, the mother of believers, reported, "I heard Muhammad say, ‘The stealer's hand is to be cut off only if what he stole is worth a quarter of a dinar (two dirhams) and beyond that’’.
How do you intend to apply the above?
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jookco (m)
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Listing you Islamic folks, I watch CNN Christian Amanpour Generation Islam, I wept because Satan have been using you folks with his wiles and false information, Children are being trained in the Palestinian to be suicide bomber, what you all need is Wisdom, the bible ask where can Wisdom be found job 22:12 and the same Chapter verses 28 Said the Fear of the Lord, the God of Isaac and Jacob is Wisdom and to depart from evil which is Islam is understanding.
Brothers and Sister how come the life of Islamist are full of strife, a little thing makes them angry and the react in way you can not believe, their Alpha mix the book with all king of substance that are used by native doctors to pray for people , this is pure nonsense called Islam, repent and be save Jesus is the way and the Live, but I'm convinced that you perish because you lack the kind of Wisdom that I just talked about, but one thing is real Jesus love you all and don't wish that any of you perish, the door is opened to you, your brothers and sisters from Iran and other Islamic nations like Pakistan are turning to Christ on daily basis, satan is a liar say no to him today and be saved.
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dexmond
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infact there was an alfa in my street, everytime, he will be looking for male lizards, don't know what he does with it. they also enquire from Ifa(divination)
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olabowale (m)
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@dexmond: About killing, I think that you wanted to say that if Muslim killed a non-muslim, deliberately. But Allah says in many verses of the Quran that unjust killing and killing in general is not a permissabe act: In Makka period, which must include the Pagans as well and indeed the whole Makkan community, of what is revealed of Surah Baqarah at that time spoke about the three conditions which are natural for the family of the murdered to follow, even today. Look at the case of the Lockerbee, Scotland Airplane diasaster of 1988, the families of the victims are still angry even up till now; yet Libya had paid them real money as compensations for ther losses. But they want the accused who was convicted to continue to pay until death; keep him in jail/prison they demanded here. Some said they are unhappy that Obama is not pushing even harder. Some will be happy to get their hands on this convicted "killer" and kill him themselves, and that may just be the beginning of their healing process. Some may have forgiven him and moved on with their lives.
What am saying is that there is the naturality to human being of what Islam says. You will agree that no one looses a family to a murderer that will not be sad, and no one based on Christian's Bible saying that you should turn your other cheek for a foolish slap this second time will do it, if its abig boy with Rough hands that is going to slap you?
Again, Allah says that the taking of a single soul is like killing a whole humanity! It is rightly so, if we go back to the origin of mankind, Adam. We will also agree that an evil soul that is killed justly by the community is like killing a generation of evildoers, if the fruit is not usually fall far from the tree that produces it! Just killing we can not argue about, even though we may not like it. But we must consider the alternative of allowing injustice to reign from the hand of unjust person!
And what our mother said about the huddud of cutting the hand of the thief is correct with conditions: Usually it is not possib for the first time offender is caught. Allah does cover the shame until the person is so used to the evil that he/she becomes lax at it and it beomes normal to him. He does not see it as something evil, so Allah then reveal the secret so that he is caught and of course can be punished after due process. Read ahadith about what I just said about crie and punishment. Thank Allah that information source and gathering of it are now as easy as mouse, click.
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olabowale (m)
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@Jookco: You live in Hayward or you lived there, where Yusuf Hamzah, a white man has Zaituna Institute, and all you have to do in that tiny little town, is to walk right in and ask all kinds of questions about Islam. What are doing is yelling about something that you see in Palestine where they are struggling against their ethnic oppressors, the Zionists. You are quoting Job etc from the Bible as if Islam was identified by it! Anyone and all religion can be read into that verse, including Judaism. I guess you may blame the Oil region people in Nigeria for struggling at least for their survival on their land! No? While I may completely disagree with the method, I am not blind to the fact that they have greviances.
@dexmond: The Alfa who is looking for male lizard is just that. Afterall, we now have ChrIslam in Nigeria, now. I wonder where these nonsensical engagements, away from Islam will lead these men claiming to be muslims, whereas their ways are far from what the Prophet (AS) demostrated? Is Islam now based on actions of individuals or is the individual's Islam confirmed or denied by Quran and the authentic Sunnah? The later is the obvious answer. While Islam stands on its own, the individual who claims to be muslim, must now demostrate his bonafide by how his actions agree with Quran in the way the prophet (AS) explained it.
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dexmond
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@ last post.
I tot it was part of the religion except now that you re refuting it.
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Abuzola (m)
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This is why i say christian are gullible, they believe whatever they are told, from false miracle to lies. Without questioning, may God help us. The truth will always be threatened with tarnish but it will never succeed
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olabowale (m)
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Nezan, how long you wanna beat the dead horse, of the boko haram? i have news for you, mister, in america, we have a lot of people who inspite of the affuence of this society are not educated, in the least. I have seen people who do not have a single pair of wearable shoes!
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Nezan (m)
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@Olabowale,
The boko-haram issue is not dead afterall, similar groups are still regrouping. The governor of niger state recently raised an alarm about them.
The fact that somebody is illiterate doesnt mean he believes that education is sin, BTW, have they gone on a killing spree against education?
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muhsin (m)
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Religion should not be judged by the practice of some of its followers.
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Nezan (m)
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Religion should not be judged by the practice of some of its followers.
What of it MOST of the followers are guilty and their holybooks support the practices? |
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muhsin (m)
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What of it MOST of the followers are guilty and their holybooks support the practices?
The reverse should be the case. BTW, don't think I am succumbed/gullible.  |
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