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muhsin (m)
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The impression I wanted to correct was that, just as we have different versions of the Bible, the same goes for the koran, no need over flogging this issue.
This is far from truth, Nezan. And am sure you know that. |
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Nezan (m)
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Muslims today generally insist that their Koran is precisely the wording of the original, and they therefore criticize the many "Versions" of the Christian Bible (even though all those Versions are actually translations of the exact same original Greek and Aramaic source Manuscripts). But such a claim is incorrect. There were at least 14 variant Arabic versions of the Koran in common use around 900 AD, and possibly several more. These arose due to the method of writing and copying that existed at that time. (Short) Vowels were not recorded, only the consonants. The short vowels could sometimes be represented by a comma-like or slanting-dash mark either above or below a letter. Also, differences between 'b' and 't' and 'th', which are identical except for dots (points) that distinguish them, were unclear because the dots were not recorded in the consonantal text of the time. Other letter/sound pairs also have exactly identical symbols. Therefore, a reader or a copyist could sometimes read different actual words from the same set of symbols. No question regarding the ORIGINAL wording was involved, but rather the many variations arose due to writing and copying the texts.
As a result, a number of codices developed:
Very Early:
Uthmanic
Ibn Mas'ud
Ubay ibn Ka'b
Abu Musa al-Ash'ari
Ali
Zayd ibn Thaabit
Abu Dardaa'
Later, the Koranic scholar Abu Bakr Ibn Mujahid (early 900s AD) fixed on one system of consonants and some control on application of vowels, which resulted in the general acceptance of seven basic systems.
The Seven Qiraa'aat (i.e, Readings):
The 'seven readings' were standardized in the second/eighth century. Abu Bakr Ibn Mujahid (d. 936 AD), a ninth-century Muslim scholar from Iraq, wrote a book entitled The Seven Readings, in which he selected seven of the prevailing modes of recitation as the best transmitted and most reliable. Others were subsequently disfavoured and even opposed, among them the readings of Ibn Mas'ud and Ubay ibn Ka'b. However, this is not to say that one must restrict oneself to one of these seven readings, or to all of them. Below are listed the local origin of the seven readings and the names of readers and some later transmitters (in arabic 'raawis') connected with them:
Readers
Naafi' of Medina (middle 700s AD)
Ibn Kathir of Mecca (early 700s AD)
Ibn 'Amir of Damascus (early 700s AD)
Abu 'Amr of Basra (middle 700s AD)
'Aasim of Kufa (early 700s AD)
Hamza of Kufa (middle 700s AD)
Al-Kisaa'i of Kufa (late 700s AD)
Each of these seven actually had two variants, due to different pathways (Transmitters):
Naafi' of Medina by Warsh or Qaaluun
Ibn Kathir of Mecca by al-Bazzi or Qunbul
Ibn 'Amir of Damascus by Hisham or Ibn Dhakwan
Abu 'Amr of Basra by al-Duri or al-Susi
'Aasim of Kufa by Hafs or Abu Bakr
Hamza of Kufa by Khalaf or Khallad
Al-Kisaa'i of Kufa by al-Duri or Abul Harith
Fourteen accepted readings in all. Some scholars recognize even more, such as:
Place / Reader
Madinah / Abu Ja'far (130/747)
Basra / Ya'qub (205/820)
Kufa / Khalaf (229/843)
Basra / Hassan al Basri (110/728)
Makkah / Ibn Muhaisin (123/740)
Basra / Yahya al-Yazidi (202/817)
Kufa / al-A'mash (148/765)
The selected 'Seven Readings' of Mujahid were:
Place / Reader / Transmitter :
1. Madinah / Naafi' (d. 169H/785AD) / Qaaluun or Warsh (d. 197H/812AD)
2. Makkah / Ibn Kathir (d. 119H/737AD)
3. Damascus / Ibn 'Amir (d. 118H/736AD)
4. Basra / Abu 'Amr (d. 154H/771AD) / Suusi or Duuri (d. 246H/860AD)
5. Kufa / 'Aasim (d. 128H/746AD) / Hafs (d. 180H/796AD)
6. Kufa / Hamza (d. 156H/773AD)
7. Kufa / Al-Kisaa'i (d. 189H/805AD) / Duuri (d. 246H/860AD)
h
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Nezan (m)
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Readings No. 1 and 5 are of particular importance: the reading transmitted by Warsh is now widespread in Africa, except Egypt, where, as now in almost all other parts of the Muslim world, the reading transmitted by Hafs is observed.
Three of these prevailed, for uncertain reasons: Warsh (around 800 AD), Hafs (around 800 AD) and al-Duri Abu Amr (around 850 AD), with two others used in small regions. This represents five distinctly different versions of the Koran currently in use by Muslims in different parts of the world. Their separate justification for using their version is closely associated with their 'chain' or path of information from the Prophet Muhammad.
The five current versions of the Koran are:
The Transmitter Hafs, who is Hafs ibn Suleyman ibn Al-Mugheerah Al-Asadi Al-Kuufi (d. 180H):
His Qiraa'ah named Hafs from 'Aasim is the most popular reading of the Quran in the world today, except for some parts of Africa. Hafs was officially adopted by Egypt in 1924. His chain from 'Aasim:
He heard from 'Aasim ibn Abu Najud Al-Kuufi (d. 128H) who was Taabi'i, i.e, among the generation following the Sahaabah, who heard from Abu Abdur-Rahman Abdullah ibn Habib As-Sulami, who heard from Uthman ibn Affan and Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thaabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).
The Transmitter Duuri, is Abu 'Amr Hafs ibn Umar ibn Abdul-Aziz ibn Subhan Ad-Duuri Al-Baghdaadi (d. 246H):
His Qiraa'ah named Duuri from Abu 'Amr is popular in parts of Africa like Somalia, Sudan as well as in other parts. His chain of from Abu 'Amr:
He heard from Abu Muhammad Yahya ibn Mubarak ibn Mugheerah Yazidiyy (d. 202H), who heard from Abu 'Amr Zuban ibn 'Ala Maziniyy Al-Busriyy (d. 154H), who heard from the Qiraa'aat from Sahaabis Ali and Uthman and Abu Musa and Umar and Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Zayd ibn Thaabit, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).
The Transmitter Warsh, who is Abu Saeed Uthman ibn Saeed Al-Misri, nicknamed Warsh, (d. 197H):
HIs Qiraa'ah named Warsh from Naafi' is popular in North Africa. His chain from Naafi':
He heard from Naafi' ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Nu'aim Al-Madani (d. 169H), who heard from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn Al-Qa'qaa' and Abu Dawud Abdur-Rahman ibn Hurmuz Al-A'raj and Shaybah ibn Nisah Al-Qaadhi and Abu Abdullah Muslim ibn Jundub Al-Hudhali and Abu Rawh Yazid ibn Ruman, who heard from Abu Hurairah and Ibn Abbaas and Abdullah ibn 'Ayyaash ibn Abi Rabii'ah, who heard from Ubayy ibn Ka'b, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).
The Transmitter Suusi:
His Qiraa'ah named Suusi from Abu 'Amr is also found around the world in small parts.
The Transmitter Qaaluun, who is Imaam Qaaluun:
His Qiraa'ah named Qaaluun from Naafi' is popular in places like Libya in Africa. His chain from Naafi':
He heard from Naafi' ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Nu'aim Al-Madani (d. 169H), who heard from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn Al-Qa'qaa', who heard from Abdullah ibn Abbaas and Abu Hurairah, who heard from Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Zayd ibn Thaabit, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).
In case Muslim readers should be greatly concerned: The variances between these different versions of the Koran are generally quite small and minor, although there are a substantial number of them. Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun has published a version of the (Hafs) Koran which contains the variant readings from the 10 Accepted Readers in its margins. About 2/3 of the ayat (verses) have some sort of variant reading. The great majority are differences in the vowels inserted in certain words (remembering that the early written kufic texts of the Koran did not include vowels or diacritical marks). There appears to be only one difference that might represent a significant effect on belief, that in surah 2:184. There are many Islamic scholars' discussions about these many differences. As an example of one, in Hafs, surah 2:140 reads taquluna, while in Warsh, that text is in surah 2:139 and reads yaquluna. Another example: Hafs surah 2:214 reads yaquula while Warsh surah 2;212 reads yaquulu. Muslim scholars agree that such variations do not seriously alter the meaning of statements made in the Koran.
The main point being made here is that the ORIGINAL texts associated with the Prophet Muhammad are not questioned, but that the absolute and precise accuracy claimed by Muslims regarding their modern Koran is not quite correct. The reality of the situation is very much like the Christian Bible, which had one Original source text but now exists in a multitude of language translations of that one Original text.
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muhsin (m)
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A fresh thread may be more appropriate for such a subject, Nezan. Thanks
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Nezan (m)
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You refuted the fact that your koran has many versions, that was why I was trying to disagree with you.
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muhsin (m)
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I mean this OP is about a wife leaving Islam. . .right?
Thus I say open a fresh on that issue. Period.
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Nezan (m)
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Are you ashamed of this discovery? that the koran also have many versions in contrast to what you were told?  |
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Nezan (m)
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But you were saying on this same thread that the Bible has so many versions, when I pointed the fact to you that the koran too has many versions, you are now calling for a new thread?, BTW, who is more funny?  |
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alimat 2 (f)
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@Nezan,
English is not supposed to be your problem, U are told to start a new thread for that.
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Nezan (m)
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@alimat, ok, help me out.
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olabowale (m)
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Quranic versions from the mouth of Nezan is demostrated by the below, and I hope this is what we have of the Bible, too. 1) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. Let call this style of writing Hafs. 2) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. Lets call this style of writing Warsh. 3) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. Lets call this style of writing Uthmani. 4) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. Lets call this style of writing Kufar. 5) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. lets call this style of writing Basra. 6) I AM A MUSLIM. THANK ALLAH. Lets call this style of writing another. I can continue to list, and the writing will be the same except styles. Is the Bible like that? I mean do we have Douwy and KJV and NIV exactly containing the same wordings, but different styles/ |
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Nezan (m)
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Your people said you should open a thread on that. If we have KJV, NIV, etc, are warsh, hafs, etc not different versions too? stop deceiving yourself. |
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olabowale (m)
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Nezan: Go get three types of Arabic Quran. Ask somebody to open each one of them to the same surah, any surah and look at each of them. You will see that they have the same character, different styles.
Then get KJV, Douwy, and NIV (before NIV is edited this year to come out with a new NIV: Lol), open any chapter and read enough of each of them and see if you will have letter for letter same in all!
I am trying to spoon feed you.
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Nezan (m)
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If you go through the different versions of the bible, you will also discover that the only difference is style. Dont spoon feed me.
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folami86
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In America, if a wife leaves Islam "they" disassociate themselves from the wife. Her parents, His parents and close friends will turn their back on her. Eventually she is forced to go back.
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babs787 (m)
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@Nezan If you go through the different versions of the bible, you will also discover that the only difference is style. Dont spoon feed me. Please in al honesty, what would you do if I show you verses going against each other, saying different things? |
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dexmond
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@ MUhsin Religion should not be judged by the practice of some of its followers. True saying. Rather, it should be judged by the life style of the leader. On this Muhammad failed, because the hadith records that he suffered from a mental condition that made him think he had sex with his wives when he actually did not. Na wah for this kind prophet o wey dem come whinch like this! May be that was the reason he thought that that disembodied being that gave in message was Gabriel. Imagine, Angel Gabriel asking Muhammad to wipe out the Jews! That shows that the being was the Jews enemy- Satan. Clearly, Gabriel will be on the Jews side, and not on the side of people who drink other people's blood. Anobi ni "I smile when I Kill" |
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focused123 (m)
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Depending on the country, she resides. If she resides in any Muhammedan states, where 100% madness called Islam is practised, she would be killed.
If she resides in the western or any civilised society, she will get away with it.
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #116 on: November 07, 2009, 12:34 AM » |
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What a goon
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focused123 (m)
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What a goon @Abuzola Like Father (Muhammed , the Mafia Boss) Like Son ( Abuzola) You go wound O Make you no come fight your jihad here because I go defeat you totally. |
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #118 on: November 08, 2009, 01:12 AM » |
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Stupidity
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focused123 (m)
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Stupidity @Abuzola : You are most stupid human being on the surface of the earth. Islam is for idiots so you are an idiot. It is not too late to get out of your stupidity Terrorist |
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focused123 (m)
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Muhammed who is suppose to be the model for every muslim is a total and complete failure for so many reasons : (1) Muhammed was not appointed a prophet by God. All the other prophet before him were all divinely appointed (2) Muhammed is not even sure of where he is going to when he dies (3) Muhammed cannot perform any miracle (4) Muhammed's life was an apology (5) Muhammed was a paedophile and a warmonger, a hatemonger and mentally retarded. (6) Muhammed's Quran was plagiarised. It was full of hatred and war God have mercy !!!  |
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #121 on: November 09, 2009, 06:59 PM » |
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You can continue saying your madness from today till thy kingdom, who cares
'Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong doing to wander blindly' Quran 2:15
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focused123 (m)
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You can continue saying your madness from today till thy kingdom, who cares
'Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong doing to wander blindly' Quran 2:15 @Abuzola : idiot |
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olabowale (m)
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@Focused123: « #120 on: Yesterday at 01:29:06 PM » Muhammed who is suppose to be the model for every muslim is a total and complete failure for so many reasons :
(1) Muhammed was not appointed a prophet by God. All the other prophet before him were all divinely appointed Do you have any proof? And what proof do you have of the appointment of any that you take as a prophet, even that of Jesus, except what he said of himself? Did you have an undisputable proof; any?
(2) Muhammed is not even sure of where he is going to when he dies And all his followers are sure of entering Jannah, InshaAllah. Who do you think is the leader of Jannah? You are too emotional and lack practicality.
(3) Muhammed cannot perform any miracle I ask what miracle did Ibrahim performed? What miracle did any prophet; Noah, Job, Jospeh, Jacob, Isaac, Elijah, Job, Jonah (i put him to proof a point about Jesus' 3 days and 3 nights.), Lut, and many others? Tell me their miracles and even tell me the independent miracles of Moses and Jesus. And Jesus said of my own power I can do nothing!
(4) Muhammed's life was an apology apology in what sense? are you okay?
(5) Muhammed was a paedophile and a warmonger, a hatemonger and mentally retarded. i think anyone responding to your continuous berating statement without any substance has too much time on his hand. I think I will quit responding to you, until you come back to your senses, whenever that is.
(6) Muhammed's Quran was plagiarised. It was full of hatred and war you seem to just be spewing ying yang without any proof. plagiarisation; show me Surah falaq and many others in the Bible? Is there a verse about hate and war in the bible? is there is a single one, then you are just blowing smoke. but if a single verse in Quran says something of love, mercy and forgiveness, hope, etc, then you are wrong, again!
God have mercy !!!
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #124 on: November 10, 2009, 02:25 PM » |
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@focus, back to sender
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focused123 (m)
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@Olabowale : I have given you all the proof but all you do is deny them. islam is for idiots. |
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Abuzola (m)
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Quran 36
10 It is the same to them whether you warn them or you warn them not, they will not believe.
11 You can only warn him who follows the Reminder (the Quran), and fears the Most Beneficent (Allah) unseen. Bear you to such one the glad tidings of forgiveness, and a generous reward (i.e. Paradise).
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