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loveth (f)
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Noooooooooo i don't believe in infact baptism
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Etienne (m)
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About not allowing children to be baptized, I think no parent would allow the child to grow up to decide on whether it wants an education before it is either forced to take one or encouraged to take one by which it could have been a bit late. If we would not do that in human matter why the spiritual. In infant baptism, the parents are really saddled with the responsibility of bringing the child up in the faith.
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AbbeyMarie (f)
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I have not been baptized yet. I know for a fact that if my computer were to blow up in my face and kill me right now, i would go to Heaven.
Baptism is not your ticket into heaven.
Jesus is.
Yes, it may be true that God commands us to be baptized. But he also commands us to not lie, not commit adultery, keep the sabbath holy, not covet, not worship other idols and he commands us much more.
Unfortunately, being human, we do not obey these all the time. In fact, most of the time, we probably don't.
Hitler, if he received Christ before he died, could be in heaven right now. and I'm sure he wasn't baptized.
infant baptism is not necessarily wrong. it doesn't do any harm. But, I believe, as others on here do, that baptism is simply a symbol, a public display of our devotion to God.
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donnie (m)
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...so therefore, you must be baptised.
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Free (f)
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i don't believe in infant baptism at all,
because it don't make any sense
i mean when the child grows and he/she comes to believe that there is a God and
believe his word then they can give theirselves to christ,
i believe thats when u get baptize, is a decision that you have to make, not your parents or anybody
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Oracle (m)
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No i totally disagree with that belief. I think a child has come of age for he/she to be baptized Baptism has to do with a personal decision itz not imposed or given to someone who doesn't know about it.  |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Baptism has to do with a personal decision
itz not imposed or given to someone who doesn't know about it. That should just about sum it up for us. People should begin to shed themselves free from the religious traditions of men which have no bearing from the WORD. Bless the children - that's what Jesus did: "And he took them up in his arms, put his hands upon them, and blessed them." (Mark 10:14-16). |
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donnie (m)
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Baptism has to do with a personal decision
itz not imposed or given to someone who doesn't know about it.
Well that's as long as you do not know why God gave that child to you nor the will of God for him/her. For when you do, you will see it as your responsibility to put him/ her on the right path before God. |
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$$Rhino
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i blv in it, because the bible said that we shall be baptized, and it is like being dead with christ and raising up with him with the immersion
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cgift (m)
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if we conduct a poll, i think it is going to be something like 80% against and 20% for it. Cheers! You must believe before being baptised check the history of the bible. You must first believe and be baptised not even when you attain any age. It is heart -related not age. Many thanks,
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fuzek
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if we conduct a poll, i think it is going to be something like 80% against and 20% for it. Cheers! You must believe before being baptised check the history of the bible. You must first believe and be baptised not even when you attain any age. It is heart -related not age. Many thanks,
Yes it's heart related not age and what makes u think an infant's heart knows otherwise. Age doesn't matter that much but atleast let the child grow (to know his/her left from right) to make a personal decision to follow Christ and then Baptize the child. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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1. Baptism does not just wash away sins, it is actually an outward demonstration and public declaration of your fatih in christ. 2. You have to have accepted Jesus in to your heart as Lord and saviour of Your life to qualify for baptism. Baptism marks your final seperation from the world. I know we learn everyday, and the remarks above were made since 2005. However, donnie, do INFANTS qualify for water baptism based on the criteria you outlined above?  |
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donnie (m)
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A child born to believing parents is sanctified by their belief. He too can be baptized.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@donnie, A child born to believing parents is sanctified by their belief. He too can be baptized.
My question was about the criteria you set to "qualify" for baptism: According to you: 1. "it is actually an outward demonstration and public declaration of your fatih in christ"
2. "You have to have accepted Jesus in to your heart as Lord and saviour of Your life to qualify for baptism" Donnie, do INFANTS "qualify" for water baptism based on the criteria YOU outlined above? If they do not, don't shakara this issue and try to push what you can't defend from God's WORD. It's easy to make rules for others that you can't keep; it's not as easy to defend the rules you make. If you truly believe the Scriptures teach "infant baptism", please clearly demonstrate where that is taught in the Bible. Cheers. |
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donnie (m)
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Of course i can defend what i said; its just that i do not feel i should do so now. I mean, in the present circumstance, i do not feel led to; bearing in mind that some really are more interested in winning an arguement than in understanding God's word.
Blessings.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Of course i can defend what i said; its just that i do not feel i should do so now. I mean in the present circumstance; bearing in mind that some really are more interested in winning an arguement than in understanding God's word. No one's interested in trophies for any argument. Could you kindly show us where you find INFANTS "qualifying" for baptism based on the criteria YOU set forth as above? Will be much appreciated. Many thanks.  |
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theopops
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I had to sign in. Christians, what is the problem? Donnie you clearly made a statement or two and pilgrim 1 called you out on them and the best you can come up with, is you are not led? What is wrong? Where did the Church fall apart? How would it have affected you by admitting your statements and standing by them? Led by the spirit to lie? What do you think the spirit does? Men, this is really sad. God help us all!
At topic, I do not believe in infant baptism, for the reasons Donnie raised, but can't admit to.
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$$Rhino
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No i don't, because they are not old enough to know the difference between right and wrong
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ricadelide (m)
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@theopops I had to sign in. Christians, what is the problem? Donnie you clearly made a statement or two and pilgrim 1 called you out on them and the best you can come up with, is you are not led? What is wrong? Where did the Church fall apart? How would it have affected you by admitting your statements and standing by them? Led by the spirit to lie? What do you think the spirit does? Men, this is really sad. God help us all!
You spoke what was in my heart; the real bother is "Is it really that hard to admit that you are wrong?" Being corrrected is a good thing  . @Donnie, Like you yourself have indicated, there's no basis for infant baptism in the bible. The logical conclusions that can be drawn from the premises (or preconditions) you yourself presented is against what you're arguing for. However there are some tangential points you raised which i might address later. Cheers. |
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donnie (m)
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My dear, it isn't hard for me to admit my wrong when there is a wrong.
Humility is a fruit of the recreated human spirit.
If i may ask, will taking my baby to a babalawo for tribal marks and cuts or for dedicatin to some gods carry significant potency?
Why don't the parents wait for the child's acceptnce of or belief in those devils before initiating him? why did they not wait for him to exercise his right to choose?
The child is qualified to be baptised because he is sanctified by his parents fatih.
1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
If children of believers are saved, what about children of unbelievers?
Like their parents, they are unsaved!
This is not the first time i am going over this on this thread is it?
By the way, the above picture (by Oracle) is not baptism. Baptism is complete immersion.
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lafile (m)
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@ Donnie
Last time i checked the Spirit of God was not an author of the confusion.
I don't think the Spirit of God will 'lead' you to start a topic by making categorical statements on what you believe, give you insights to defend what you believe to a certain point, then refuse to lead you when pilgrim 1 asked you a question.
He will always finish what He starts.
lots-a-love
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@donnie, Thanks for taking the time to reply and explaining your views about INFANT baptism - that's what some of us have been waiting for. I must apologise to you if I read you somewhat off-key previously; because it wasn't my intention to put you on spot - judging from the other posts following our discourse. I really apologise for that. Now here's what I have to share with you. I'll first reply to yours, and then attempt to address a few things thereto. If i may ask, will taking my baby to a babalawo for tribal marks and cuts or for dedicatin to some gods carry significant potency?
Why don't the parents wait for the child's acceptnce of or belief in those devils before initiating him? why did they not wait for him to exercise his right to choose? Good question. However, did you ever consider that baptism into Christ and occultism are not the same thing? Your illustrations have not helped to provide a clear Biblical understanding of INFANT baptism, especially based on the criteria you offered as twice quoted earlier. What if the parents never initiated their baby at a babalawo's ritual, would the babies even then still be under the spell of occultism? The child is qualified to be baptised because he is sanctified by his parents fatih. Which takes us to a whole new dimension of what is known as 'baptism by proxy' - something not taught in Scripture. 1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
If children of believers are saved, what about children of unbelievers?
Like their parents, they are unsaved! The text you quoted (1 Cor. 7:14) is not proof-text for INFANT baptism. Take a minute to consider the first part of that verse: "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife" - does that mean the wife's faith therefore 'qualifies' the unbelieving husband for baptism as well? If not, why not? You already said: "The child is qualified to be baptised because he is sanctified by his parents fatih"; and my point here is this: that very verse clearly says that the "unbelieving husband" is sanctified by the wife. By the same inference you made, does the " unbelieving husband" also qualify for baptism "because he is sanctified by the wife's faith? If not, why not? This is not the first time i am going over this on this thread is it? No - I've seen where you attempted this previously. And because your treatment of the subject doesn't appear to be balanced, that's why I called your attention to it - especially from the perspective of the criteria you had offered as qualifying for baptism. Sample another one you stated earlier in that same quote: "You are actually declaring to yourself, the world, and the devil that not only are you a believer in Christ, you have actually identified with him in his death, burial and resurrection". The question here is whether you envisage an infant actually "declaring" itself to be doing all those things by its own choice through "infant baptism" - which we would all have to admit is clearly wrong. By the way, the above picture (by Oracle) is not baptism. Baptism is complete immersion. No worries. For the very same reason that you could identify that picture as "not baptism", one should be able to identify if your premise was founded on the WORD of God. Cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@donnie, Now let me take a few moments to also share on the subject by way of attempting to clarify the issues on the verse you'D offered in defence of INFANT baptism. First, I'D like you to note that there's a difference between " infants" and " children". We both know that Greek has distinct terms for describing children , such as ' paidion' [ παιδίον], ' brephos' [ βρέφος], ' teknon' [ τέκνον], etc. Please bear this distinction in mind as we proceed. The child is qualified to be baptised because he is sanctified by his parents fatih.
1 Corinthians 7:14 - "For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy."
If children of believers are saved, what about children of unbelievers?
Like their parents, they are unsaved! Children of believing parents are regarded as 'holy', not because they therefore qualify for " infant baptism" as a result therefrom; but because they belong to believing parents. It does not therefore mean that such a positional proposition makes the children "saved" as you might've supposed. Rather, it implies that the "seed" (or 'children') of believing parent(s) are regarded as belonging to a legitimate family. Compare this with such texts elsewhere which demonstrate the principle that belonging to believing parents or spouses have spiritual implications on human relationships rather than on individual spirituality: Malachi 2:15
"And *did not he make one? Yet had he the residue of the spirit. And wherefore one? That he might seek a godly seed. Therefore take heed to your spirit, and let none deal treacherously against the wife of his youth." (*cf. "did not He make one"? with Gen. 2:24)
Ezra 9:2
"For they have taken of their daughters for themselves, and for their sons: so that the holy seed have mingled themselves with the people of those lands: yea, the hand of the princes and rulers hath been chief in this trespass."
Beginning with the spouses themselves in 1 Cor. 7:14, we're told that "the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife" - which does not imply that the unbelieving husband is " saved". It simply implies that they are in a covenant relationship as "one flesh" or a family unit (cf. Mal. 2:14 - "yet is she thy companion, and the wife of thy covenant"); in which case, their seed are regarded to the Lord as "holy" (1 Cor. 7:14) or as 'godly seed' (Mal. 2:15). That the apostle affirms that the children of believing parents are 'holy' does not imply that they therefore "qualify" for baptism according to 1 Cor. 7:14. Following the criteria which you offered earlier as qualifying for baptism, we read in every instance that water baptism follows two very important things: * hearing the Gospel
* believing the Gospel
-- then being baptized.
. . . and there are several verses in the NT that show that same procedure. Let's see a few of them: Mark 16:16 - "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (believing comes before baptism)
Acts 18:8 - "And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized" ('hearing' comes before 'believing' and then leads to being 'baptized')
Rom. 10:12 - "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?" |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@donnie, The basic question here is whether "INFANTS" qualify for baptism from all the verses that we're reading. How could infants call upon Christ or confess Him if the Gospel was not personally preached to them? It is with the heart that someone believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation ( Rom. 10:9-10) - do "infants" make these confessions at the time of their " infant baptism"? We both know they do not; which would mean that 'infants' do not qualify for baptism according to God's WORD. However, what then happens to INFANTS who are NOT given " infant baptism"? I'm persuaded that "infants" do not need to be baptized in order to be considered as belonging to the kingdom. First, the Bible teaches consistently that "for of such is the kingdom of heaven" ( Luke 18:15-16). Why is this so? It's so for the simple reason that they are considered 'innocent' before God as those who have no conscience experience of good and evil to discern what is sin. Compare this with what the prophets have proclaimed: Deuteronomy 1:39
"Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it."
2 Sam. 12:22-23
"And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me." The basic question these verses would be answering is with regards to the state of infants who have no experiential knowledge of sin. Those who die as infants are not lost - for unto such belong the Kingdom of God. From all points considered, the idea of " infant baptism" cannot be defended in Scripture, for it is not taught there. The criteria you affirmed as qualifying one for baptism only make this all the more obvious - that baptism is for those who first should have heard the Gospel, which they should have believed, and then demonstrate that faith publicly by being baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus (Acts 19:4-5). There is no basis for the idea of "infant baptism" in the Bible. Warm regards. |
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