ibkaye:

This question directed at one particular person or are you asking generally?

ibkaye:

Hehehehe, I see I see.

It depends really, in terms of different aspects one can be westernized.

Have you been told that you are too westernized? And in terms of what exactly?

E.g way of thinking, dressing, talking etc etc

ibkaye:

The white man's God? Are we talking about christianity here? If yes, I don't think God belongs to the 'white man', God is for everyone to fear, whether white, black, yellow etc

ibkaye:

Hmm, I believe that there is a difference between following the 'white man's' rules and being westernized. If you are living in a white man's country, you will need to adapt to their culture in certain ways and also follow their rules, it's their country after all, but that does not mean you are neccesarily 'westernized', but then again, what is your exact definition of being 'westernized'?

michelin89:

Since I am the accused I could list some of my characteristics that make people claim I am westernized although I think they are just traits of my personality.

I separate morality and legacy. They are not always compatible (this has cost me a lot of abuse from moralizers)
I believe in equal chances of expression (moralists don't like this)
I am an individualist. The society to me is regulated by ideals not by laws, so an individual in moral issues has always got the final word (please remember my initial distinction between legacy and morality)
Being an individualist, I firmly believe in the revaluation of the traditional roles. Consequence is breaking the chains with tie people down and deprive them of the ideal condition and freedom to make decisions without social prejudices.
My individualism makes me selfish and not so prone to that forgiveness which is instilled in us right from childhood. As for me, the well being of a single person is more important than the well being of a group ethically speaking (politically I believe the majority must prevail)

etc, there are more but I can only think of these now. I think as we get on with the discussion, I'll bring out more.

ibkaye:

Lol, I don't think such attributes are 'western', it's just that (talking in terms of an African Woman) African culture has made it so that is believed that certain people are supposed to think in certain ways, not neccesarily have a mind of their own, especially for women. Thank God such thoughts are gradually changing.

Thoughts and opinions differ from country to country, I believe that the western world are more of 'Individuals' compared to Africa. You are your own person/individual and you should think and behave the way you want no matter what people think, as long as it is reasonable, sensible and it won't put you in jail 

michelin89:

I am glad you have noticed that. I guess you'll agree that saying that the well being of the single is more important than social or familiar balance is not really African going by what you stated and that I highlighted.

I still regard them as part of my personality, but these have earned me the label of westernized and I want to know why they think they are not westernized.

ibkaye:

I would say for the majority, but neccesarily all

I get what you mean, as much as these things are what people use to label you 'westernized', those particular people that have labelled you, what helped to draw your conclusion that they themselves are westernized too? Are they similar to you in terms of those attributes you mentioned?

michelin89:

I ask this because:

1. You live in a country created by a White man.

2. You struggle to speak the language of the White man.

3. You worship the god of the White man.

4. You make use of objects invented by the White man.

5. The ideals and forms of liberty you enjoy today were theorized by the White man

Tell me, after all these, how can you still call me a westernized person and claim to be more African than me?

ibkaye:

I think being westernized it more of a 'the way you think and approach things' kind of thing, not neccesarily that they live in a white man's country sort of thing etc

For example, one may do all those things but in terms of the way he/she thinks and approcahes things, he/she is the most conc african etc etc there is

ibkaye:

Don't think that's what they should base such things on, a person may glorify what the so called 'white man' does because he/she agrees with it, whether he/she is african, asian or whatnot, I mean, some whites have glorified what some africans do but that does not make them Africanised abi?

michelin89:

Exactly. I'd really like to know why there is this fear of something different which is immediately labelled as evil and from the white man.

Can't we just accept that people change and can't always be the same?

Fulaman198: Not every African is Westernized, the ones who do not speak their native tongue are definitely westernized. The ones who listen mainly to Western/American music are definitely Westernized. The ones who tend to grow up in the big cities are definitely westernized, the ones who try to be as much of a coconut as possible are definitely Westernized. The ones who have forgotten the old ways or tradition are definitely Westernized. The ones who use vulgar language and bad words are definitely Westernized. The ones who listen to modernized music in English are definitely Westernized. The list can go on and on.

Nayah:

I disagree...I mean how people could measure or judge who's more "African" than the others? I think this is a bit arrogant, non offese. I was born and live in France but I understand my language, I do know my culture and how to cook Cameroonian dishes, but when I go to visit my family t will be different, because they see you as different that's simple. Even though you're proud of your roots you can't be like your relatives out there but it doesn't mean you're westernize! come on! please don't think that being African is living in this part of the World ( Africa) while some of them who sometimes have money don't know how to cook or fix their clothers because they have housemaid! So please balance your statement brother, don't jump on conclusions so fast

Fulaman198:

I didn't say anything about being born in a different culture makes you Westernized. I said that those who don't know their language are Westernized, those who try to be everything that embodies the western world are Westernized. Being an African means you don't try to act like a European/American/Westerner. Which means you don't go trying to be of another culture when you are African. When you speak French, do you try to say everything with an accent of the particular French region you are in (yes there are many French accents, but do you speak with a French accent of the region you live in).

No offense was taken, but you know you are Westernized if you are. Those who don't want to have anything to do with their culture are definitely Westernized.

afam4eva: This is a nice thread though relatively old. Just subscribing.

Nayah:
hi Afam!

afam4eva:
Hello Nayah, how's France?