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Tali-Tali (m)
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Ladies and gentlemen, Rev. Sisters are Holy people and are expected to live a Holy life for others to emulate.
From this conception, what happens then if one of them is caught in love making which is one of the aspects denied by God's Holy Book?
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nferyn (m)
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During the late middle ages in Europe, there were even monasteries that were bordellos. That was one of the reasons the reformation caught on so quickly.
Anyway, putting unnecessary constraints on people will only lead to excesses. The protestant (and early Christian) approach where the reverend can marry is way better anyway.
With regard to sexuality, the Roman Catholic Church is seriously messed up. They still blame the victims of rape by priests rather than look at what's wrong with their institution of celibacy.
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Tali-Tali (m)
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Yes, there has always been that sentiment of Holiness in them. We all know this and expect to see them behave up to what they really are. Forget about related developments and imagine a Holy figure caught in that situation.
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nferyn (m)
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People are people. We all have our good and bad sides. whether or not someone has a function or postion does not make that person automatically good or holy. I only look at a person's actions.
Making love is not something bad. The fact that nuns and priests are not allowed to marry is the bad thing.
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Ajisafe
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You're only deceiving yourselves by thinking that God frowns at people having sex. Can you tell us where it's written in your bible that having sex at all is bad (maybe extra-marital sex is frowned at)? Weren't all the disciples of Jesus either married or married with children? Wasn't it recently been documented or rather exposed that Jesus himself was a human being like you and may have had a child by Mary Magdalene (Read the book, Da Vinci Code)? The rest of the Prophets (Adam, Abraham, David, Noah, Moses, Mohammad and etc) all had wives and children. Many of these prophets even practiced polygamy! You people are deceiving yourselves. Church-goers do marry and have sex, but expect their priests and nuns not to have sex. Are you kidding yourselves? It's human to have sex; release is part of our existence! If you're trying to be "Christ-like," whatever that means, why do most of you church-goers have wives and children? @Tali-Tali, think about it, how did you get to this world? By immaculate conception? Stop kidding yourselves. God has nothing against sex -- I can agree with you if you're preaching that people ought to be loyal to their mates and not have sex outside of their marriage. Please, leave your Reverend sister alone and let her enjoy her life. If it's possible, find a husband for her. Period! |
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CimonJorr (m)
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@ Ajisafe.. I guess we're missing the point here.. in as much as we're all human, with fundamental human flaws and tendencies, the issues at stake here are a commitment not made to man, but to God... When religious people make these vows, it's not for man's sake but to show their commitment to God.. If a religious person makes that kind of commitment [to abstain from carnal pleasures..] and breaks it, maybe it's time for a re-assessment of the person's commitment to God...  |
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nferyn (m)
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[SNIP] If a religious person makes that kind of commitment [to abstain from carnal pleasures..] and breaks it, maybe it's time for a re-assessment of the person's commitment to God... It's willfully ignoring the fact that we're all human. It's like putting the cat close to the milk and then complaining that there is no milk left anymore. A pointless exercise in futility |
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Oracle (m)
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well it happens
u know sometimes some of these girls are forced
to become nuns by their parents and this is something they
never had intention of doing so they emanate their true character
in the convent sometime itz temptation and all that
but the faithful ones would remain faithful
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Ajisafe
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@Cimonjor, why don't you try and make such a committment to God? I suppose you're a christian? Why do you take joy in others holding sway for you? You people want other human beings to go in the spirit, speak in tongues, and become celibate, and probably go for days, fasting, without food, right? You can as well try it and see how humanly possible all these things are. A priest or nun is a human being just like you. Why do you think all those scandalous allegations about Catholic priests raping young altar boys happen? Because these people are also human beings!
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CimonJorr (m)
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The Christian religion is one of free will... It is such that no one forces you to make any decisions in your commitments to God, especially when one becomes of age... That's why in my earlier post, I mentioned a "re-assessment" of one's commitment... There is nothing there that states that if you feel that you can no longer keep that particular promise [you may rephrase with commitment or vow] to God, that you can't seek God's understanding in the matter and be released from your vows (for example people do fall in love or desire to have children of their own, and choose to leave that particular ministry).. But to remain a Nun or a Rev. Sister (which I believe requires a vow of celibacy and chasticy) and still desire to partake in that particular activity is not right.. It's willfully ignoring the fact that we're all human. It's like putting the cat close to the milk and then complaining that there is no milk left anymore. A pointless exercise in futility
If it was my particular desire to make that kind of commitment to God, I would not require your prompting or agitation.. It would be a matter between me and my Lord.. AND YES, I am a Christian.. The Christian faith acknowledges that people will make mistakes.. But it also recognises that when people make these mistakes, and seek genuine forgiveness from the Lord, that He will have mercy on them and forgive them.. It is not for you or me to judge what kind of commitment one should make to one's Creator.. that is a personal matter of faith.. No-one, and I repeat no-one holds sway for anyone in matters of the faith.. what is important is one's personal commitment to your Lord and Creator.. We all seek to serve our Creator in different ways.. The commitment you make to your Lord and Creator is one that you should be willing to abide by.. Most especially as it is a promise from you.. One should not make promises that one can not keep.. Especially in matter like this.. And FYI.. I believe that other Rev. Fathers & Sisters, Priests and Nuns, etc.. people of the cloth who are in that particular persuasion.. have abided like this without problems before in the past.. so it is not impossible to do, if it is your choice to do so.. @Cimonjor, why don't you try and make such a committment to God? I suppose you're a christian? Why do you take joy in others holding sway for you? You people want other human beings to go in the spirit, speak in tongues, and become celibate, and probably go for days, fasting, without food, right? You can as well try it and see how humanly possible all these things are. A priest or nun is a human being just like you. Why do you think all those scandalous allegations about Catholic priests raping young altar boys happen? Because these people are also human beings!
ps... the incidents of the scandals and rape allegations you've mentioned are exceptional cases, not the norm.. As a comparison, we expect our leaders to live lives above board and remain fundamentally honest... Not to loot and plunder.. but will you now blame all honest leaders (even though that may really sound like an oxymoron..  ) for the excesses of the few who aren't above board..?  |
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Ajisafe
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Tell that to the Catholics in America. The scandal is so ubiquitous that you don't know! The dudes also feel what you feel. Tell me, in your christendom, what purpose are nuns and celibate priests serving? Would there celibacy hasten the coming of Jesus? Don't you even understand that Jesus himself may have fathered a child? The Da Vinci Code!
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vizion (m)
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very soon now we will hear that jesus was also gay???
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CimonJorr (m)
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This DaVinchi Code [by Dan Brown.. I've read the novel..] that you're always refering to.. Do you always make decisions based on works of fiction?.. One should not base your own actions on the lives/lifestyles of others.. if u're a christian, do what u feel is right between u and your creator.. If stuff happens in america which u don't agree with, it doenst mean that it happens all over the world.. The purpose of celibacy is not for me to judge... All I can say is that if they made those decisions when going into religion (promises which were not made to you or me, but to God) they should have be willing to up-hold their commitments... there are many benefits of serving God.. everyone's Blessings are different.. If they feel that they were not adequately informed of the kind of commitment such a decision required, it is between them and God... Simple.. Tell that to the Catholics in America. The scandal is so ubiquitous that you don't know! The dudes also feel what you feel. Tell me, in your christendom, what purpose are nuns and celibate priests serving? Would there celibacy hasten the coming of Jesus? Don't you even understand that Jesus himself may have fathered a child? The Da Vinci Code!
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nferyn (m)
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[SNIP] ps... the incidents of the scandals and rape allegations you've mentioned are exceptional cases, not the norm.. As a comparison, we expect our leaders to live lives above board and remain fundamentally honest... Not to loot and plunder.. but will you now blame all honest leaders (even though that may really sound like an oxymoron.. ) for the excesses of the few who aren't above board..? They are most certainly not that exceptional. What is exceptional is that this becomes public knowledge. In the past, the power that the Catholic Church could wield ensured that all of this stayed indoors. It used to be quite common for priests in catholic boarding schools to use the services of the boys under their care. Many have become emotionally scarred for life. The Catholic hierarchy still does not want to acknowledge that there is a fundamental problem with the institution of celibacy. If those priest want to become celibate, that they join an order and enter a monastery. They should not be in contact with the general public. The risk of abuse is too big. |
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nferyn (m)
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This DaVinchi Code [by Dan Brown.. I've read the novel..] that you're always refering to..
Do you always make decisions based on works of fiction?..
The Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction. Nobody denies that. The portrayal of Jesus in The Da Vinci Code is just as probable as the portrayal in the Bible, if not more so. If you would get into the non apologetical history of the early Christian church, you would understand that there is much more to Christianity than the orthodox views that survived the establishment of the official catholic church |
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CimonJorr (m)
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Christianity is more than the Catholic Church.. We have many more denominations... Let us not use this incidents in the Catholic Church to judge the whole of Christianity (and Christiandom).. snip... If you would get into the non apologetical history of the early Christian church, you would understand that there is much more to Christianity than the orthodox views that survived the establishment of the official catholic church
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nferyn (m)
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Christianity is more than the Catholic Church..
We have many more denominations...
Let us not use this incidents in the Catholic Church to judge the whole of Christianity (and Christiandom)..
I understand that. That's why I think that the reformation brought a lot of good. It lifted Europe out of the ignorance of the Middle Ages. But also don't forget that almost all Christian denominations have their spiritual roots in the Catholic Orthodoxy. They all use the same compilation of gospels (The Bible), save a few minor differences. Early Christianity was far more diverse (and much more open to the world) than what remains today. But, as far as I know, the Catholic Church is the only Church that hangs on to the concept of imposed celibacy for the clergy. |
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CimonJorr (m)
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The DaVinchi Code was written as a novel, for public consumption and pleasure.. The Bible was written to be one of the foundations of the Christian faith.. The motivations of the writing of the two different books were different.. So while I acknowledge that u are not a Christian, and hence may not see the spiritual relevance of it or its contents (that is.. I understand u see things from a different perspective.. a different point of view), I would have u appreciate the differences in their content and approach.. Early Christianity had a lot of issues.. some right, some wrong.. Modern Christianity I would like to believe has learnt from the mistakes of the past.. Unfortunately, a lot of newer issues have arisen which tends to taint the tennets and doctrines of the religion.. I do believe however, that the bible contains a lot of truth, and guidelines for everyday co-existence with our fellow mankind.. And that abiding by its contents and tennets would lead to a more fulfilled life.. Being with believers is part of that.. [sorry, that was meant for the other post "I'm a Christian But I Don't Need No Church! ".. my bad... ] The Da Vinci Code is a work of fiction. Nobody denies that. The portrayal of Jesus in The Da Vinci Code is just as probable as the portrayal in the Bible, if not more so. If you would get into the non apologetical history of the early Christian church, you would understand that there is much more to Christianity than the orthodox views that survived the establishment of the official catholic church
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nferyn (m)
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The DaVinchi Code was written as a novel, for public consumption and pleasure..
Exactly and Dan Brown used some of the most recent historical materials concerning the early history of Christianity. The book is well researched and the historical references are very close to the truth. The specific story is fictional, but the background information is to a very large extent probable. The Bible was written to be one of the foundations of the Christian faith..
I think here you're missing the real motivations. The Bible was compiled and re-edited out of a collection of gospels. The purpose was to establish the truth of the orthodox catholic state church. From that moment on, the non-catholic churches were marginalized and persecuted until there was no other interpretation left than the orthodox interpretation from the Bible. It is the foundation for the orthodox tradition. If you look at the faith of the Ethiopian Christians, you will see that it is very different from mainstream Christianity. Unfortunately, there are only very few of these original churches left. The motivations of the writing of the two different books were different.. So while I acknowledge that u are not a Christian, and hence may not see the spiritual relevance of it or its contents (that is.. I understand u see things from a different perspective.. a different point of view), I would have u appreciate the differences in their content and approach..
I do understand your point of view, but you should also understand that there are a lot of other interpretations and that the canonization of the Bible was first and foremost a political process, not a spiritual one. It's only afterwards, after the reformation, that the spirituality was reintroduced. It's a shame that the original gnostic spirituality was lost. The Bible turned Christ into a historical figure instead of a spiritual means to reach gnosis (knowledge) of the divine (God). Early Christianity had a lot of issues.. some right, some wrong..
Modern Christianity I would like to believe has learnt from the mistakes of the past..
I would rather say that it has completely forgotten the past and tries to reinvent spirituality in a cruder, more child-like incarnation. The gnostic spirituality was far more advanced and meaningfull. My own spirituality is very close to this, even though I cannot make the intellectual leap of faith to believe Unfortunately, a lot of newer issues have arisen which tends to taint the tennets and doctrines of the religion.. I do believe however, that the bible contains a lot of truth, and guidelines for everyday co-existence with our fellow mankind.. And that abiding by its contents and tennets would lead to a more fulfilled life..
I do agree with this statement. That's where religion can have a positive impact on human existence, as long as it does not become a fundamentalist, literalist interpretation. Being with believers is part of that.. [sorry, that was meant for the other post "I'm a Christian But I Don't Need No Church! ".. my bad... ]  |
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loveth (f)
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For a Rev sister to be caught in love making is bad shaaa,but we have not to blame her much because she is a human being,may be she tried to resist the temptation but she can't,she only need prayers for God to forgive her and also to give her power to withstand such a temptation next time.
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Tali-Tali (m)
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Loveth, there is some sence in what you have just said above. You see; lets have a focus in this issue because there is something hidden behind it more than what we only think someone is a human being. Jesus himself come on earth in human form and was still able to withstand temptation. Why would a Rev. Sister not be able to do same given that she has already committed herself as a true follower of Christ. I think God should now have time to listen to others pleas than going again to strain on clergies.
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IAH (f)
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I don't see anything wrong with celibacy in the Catholic Church as long as it is not compulsory to be a clergy. If you can't hold yourself, then don't go there. Priesthood is not by force, so once you decide to do it then you must be ready to follow all their rules. It's as simple as that!
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Eddy Tells (m)
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maybe priest gave her body [body], she come soji [soji].............................just a joke.
But really, if she was a true believer or born again, she would not have done such.
Then again, do catholics actually beileve in being born again or maybe they believe they've been born again 2000 years ago. Maybe i just don't like them but they are beginning to put stains on christainity. Most catholics in US are running away from the catholic church. The catholic church needs a revival but they just don't want to accept it because they feell its a slight to them [ being one of the 1st churches who wrote the bible]
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IAH (f)
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This has nothing to do with Catholic Church or Catholics at all! Each church has its rules/doctrines. And they have not forced anybody to join priesthood. Why not blame the people that made a vow to remain chaste for life and broke the vow? Why blame the entire church? There is nothing wrong with celibacy as far as I'm concerned. In the Bible, Paul refused to marry because he wanted to serve God and he said in 1 Corinthians 7:1-2, 8-9;
"...Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband...Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."
So it's possible to choose not to marry and one should not be chastised for that. However if you cannot control yourself, then Marry! So it's never compulsory and the Catholic church has never imposed priesthood thus celibacy on anyone.
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loveth (f)
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Tali-Tali,what you said is true,but Jesus is Jesus and Rev. sister is Rev. sister.
you know is not easy,
Well i'm not supporting a Rev. sister to make love, but i am trying to bring out sence in this topic,you know you cannot compare a Rev sister to Jesus christ.
Hope i make a sence.
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nferyn (m)
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[SNIP]
So it's possible to choose not to marry and one should not be chastised for that. However if you cannot control yourself, then Marry! So it's never compulsory and the Catholic church has never imposed priesthood thus celibacy on anyone.
This is not exactly true, but let's stay on topic. If you want to discuss this matter, maybe we should start another thread. |
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fabian (f)
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Yes, maybe you should Nferyn! |
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nferyn (m)
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Yes, maybe you should Nferyn! I won't. I have already stirred up things enough here. I wil happily join though if I see something that resembles ignorance (in my eyes) |
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fabian (f)
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Ok, i will think up a thouroughly ignorant topic anD post to make you tick!
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nferyn (m)
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Ok, i will think up a thouroughly ignorant topic anD post to make you tick!
Come on, you're being unfair  You hurt my feelings |
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fabian (f)
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Awwww, nferyn, I meant U like to respond to ignorant posts and try to educate the rest of the populace!
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