The Second Coming Of Jesus Christ!

If you ask for it, i will never run away from giving you constructive and very open minded points to whatever doubts you have in you towards christianity.
As well my other learned fellows too will be more than ready to help you out of the delusion you have been engulfed in over the years

@babs787,

Apart from the fact that you have side-stepped all the issues I raised, you seem to be suffering from blindness.  here is the pasage in Revelation I gave to you again:
Revelation 22: 12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. 14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. 16 "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." 17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.

Can you see the word in bold?  That is Jesus Himself speaking.

Now that you have called John (a disciple of Jesus) a liar, can you please tell us what Gospel that your allah claimed he sent down to Christians?  Or has he misplaced that Gospel forever?  He must be very careless don't you think? 

In any case, can you tell me whose writings you believe now so i can show you what the person has to say.  And as i said, if you will quote from the Koran, you will need to tell us whose version it is you are quting from and why that is the authentic one.

babs707,
You are a total waste of space and intellect. don't be offende! it is just my observation and opinion on your various posts and I am sure a lot of people have noticed that too. You post these long but empty posts and makes one to wonder how old you are, seriously.
Can you please tell us the difference between Judeo-Christianity and Christianity? Just prove that taking you up is not a waste of time.

Islam with its flaws
Please to all the Moslems who come out and digress the topic, if you have any issues raise a thread for it. Let those who seek knowledge, wisdom and truth be enlightened.

@Havila,

Based on your clamour for difference between judeo christinaity and Pauline Christianity, the little write up below will enlighten more on the two and the one u r practicing today

From the time jesus left earth to the second half of the second century, there was a struggle between two factions. One was what might be called Pauline Christianity and the other Judeo-Christianity. It was only very slowly that the first supplanted the second, and PAULINE CHRISTIANITY triumphed over judeo-christianity.

A large number of very recent works are based on todays’ discoveries. They have made it possible to attain modern ideas and among them we find cardinal danielou’s name. In December 1967 he published an article in the review studies  entitle: ‘ a new representation of the origins of Christianity: judeo-christianity’. Here re resumes past works, retraces its history and enables us to place the appearance of the gospels in quite different contexts from the one that emerges on reading accounts intended for mass publication. What follows is a condensed version of the essential points made in his article, including many quotations from it.

After jesus’s departures, the ‘little group of apostles’ formed a ‘jewish sect that remained faithful to the form of worship practiced in the temple’. However, when the observances of converts from paganism were added to them, a ‘special system’ was offered to them as it were; the Council of Jerusalem in 49 AD exempted them from circumcision and jewish observances, ‘many judeo-christians rejected this concession’. This group is quite SEPARATE FROM PAUL. What is more, PAUL AND THE JUDEO-CHRISTIANS were in conflict over the question of pagans who had turned to Christianity, (the incident of Antioch, 49 A.D.) ‘For paul, THE CIRCUMCISION, SABBATH, AND FORM OF WORSHIP PRACTISED IN THE TEMPLE WERE HENCEFORTH OLD FASHIONED, EVEN FOR THE JEWS.

For those judeo-christians who remained ‘loyal jews, paul was a traitor: judeo-christian documents call him an ‘enemy’ accuse him of ‘tactical double-dealing’ …until 70A.D., Judeo-christianity represents the majority of the church and paul remains an isolated case. The head of the community at that time was james, a relation of jesus. With him were peter (at the beginning) and john. James may be considered to represent the judeo-christian camp, which deliberately clung to Judaism as opposed to Pauline Christianity. Jesus family has a very important place in the judeo-christian church of Jerusalem. James successor was simeon, son of cleopas, a cousin of jesus

It was not just in Jerusalem and Palestine that judeo Christianity predominated during the first hundred years of the church. The judeo Christian mission seems everywhere to have developed before the Pauline mission. This is certainly the explanation of the fact that the letters of paul allude to a conflict. They were the same adversaries he was to meet everywhere: in Galatia, Corinth, Colossae, rome and Antioch.

The syro Palestine coast from gaza to Antioch was judeo Christian ‘ as witnessed by the Acts of apostles and Clemetiner writings. In asis minor, the existence of judeo Christian s is indicated in paul’s letters to the Galatians and Colossians. Papias’ writings give us information about judeo Christianity in Phrygia. In Greece, paul’s first letter to the Corinthians mentions judeo Christians especially at apollos. According to clement’s letter and the shephers of hermas, rome was an important center. For suetonius and tacitus, the Christians represented a jewish sect.

It is essential to know these facts to understand the struggle between communities that formed the background against which the Gospels were written. The texts that we have today, after many adaptations from the sources, began to appear around 70 A.D. the time when the two rival communities were engaged in a fierce struggle, with the judeo Christians still retaining the upper hand. With the Jewish war and the fall of Jerusalem in 70A.D., the situation was to be reversed.

THIS LITTLE WRITE UP WILL AWAKEN YOU FROM YOUR SLUMBER OF IGNORANCE based on the ORIGIN of Pauline Christianity in which you  practiced as  religion u never know about.



@davidylan

funny you,

no wonder you never know beyond what your so called pastors, pope, evangelist has been feeding. I laugh at your ignorance on the verses quoted above. Has your bible deluded you to the extent of not knowing the meaning of the passage. If you don’t know, I will enlighten you on that, it is on the SHARING OF WILL.

I thought your bible is complete. U yourself has seen that your bible is incomplete and that is the more reason jesus told you that he would leave and send the ‘PARACLETE” to come and guide and declare things to you and ever since your ‘HOLY SPIRIT’ hasn’t told you anything aside jesus’

What is your bible stand on sharing of will as put by your bible? I need the verse please. because if you have, there shouldn’t be any reason for u asking me babyish question on the verse above. No wonder we are having the cases of Christians killing each over property caused as a result of dying ‘INTESTATE’. Even those that died TESTATE, what is the basis for the sharing of the will in your bible?

My brother, u need to read the HOLY BOOK, AL-QURAN and be enlightened on certain issues in which your bible never taught you.

HAVE I ANSWERED YOU OR U NEED MORE EXPLANATION ON YOUR IGNORANCE.

 
@ Dear 'Toronto' Professor babs787,
Did I not tell you before that you CANNOT surpass your previously known level of intellectual incompetence and absolute ignorance? Yes I did, and you have further shown that I am correct.
When I told you that you need wisdom, intuition and inspiration to read and understand the Bible fully because it is not a book of do's and don't's, you found it difficult to believe because you wisdom and understanding is limited to 'reading or rather cramming' a book in arabic. First, you posted a write-up and then gave no reference; was that because you are not sure of the credibility of the source? So, this is the 'research' you threatened to 'reveal'?
Secondly, had it been that you are wise and intuitive, you would have first read the Epistles in the Bible because all the truth about the above story is in there but even if you do read it, you wont understand!!. But we know that such an independent investigation for truth is not encouraged in your religion. So I am not surprised that you copied and pasted an unknown source as usual.
To help you, I will briefly give you the correct facts and refer you to the relevant chapters in the Bible for reference.
There were actually three (3) parties to the story you posted above, not just your so-called 'Judeo-Christians' (nothing like that) and 'Pauline Christians.' They included:
(1) The newly converted Jewish Christians in Jerusalem (led by Peter, James, John)
(2) The Judaizers (Judaism practitioners) i.e Jews who opposed the early Christians and tried to impose it upon the them to still obey the Mosaic Laws
(3) The Jewish and Gentile Christians in Antioch led by Paul, Barnabas (both Jews) and Titus (a Gentile Christian)

In Galatians Chapter 2 and 1 Peter and 2nd Peter, you will get the correct story: Paul's divine assignment was to take the Gospel to the Gentiles, and he consulted with the Pillars of the early Christian church at that time i.e Peter, James, and John, who all acknoledged Paul's teachings: (1) to be genuine; (2) to be the same gospel they preached; (3) and they sanctioned or supported his taking the gosples to the gentiles. (Ref Galatian 2 vs1-10, 1 Peter chapter 1-2). The Judaizers were however a powerful sect who were commited to the Mosaic Laws, and they infiltrated the early church and tried to impose the Mosaic Laws on the new Christians. However, Paul was the first to oppose their attempt; because for Christians to still be observing the practice of the laws, will defeat the purpose of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ----> which is that grace, salvation and righteousness is through faith in Jesus Christ who's sacrifice has made Christians free from the bondage of the Mosaic Laws!!!

However, a disagreement between Paul and Peter was recorded in Galatian 2 vs11-21 over Peter's fear for the Judaizers. Peter, because he was afriad of the Judaizers, initially separated himself from the Gentile Christians when he  and James came to meet the Gentile Christians in Antioch/Greece; and by his action seems to support the observance of some Jewish laws by the Gentile Christians (This is what you and your equally ignorant sources refer to as Judeo-Christianity). This was out of fear and politics of the Judaizers and not out of conviction, because they all knew and agreed that the sacrife of Jesus has removed the bondage of the mosaic law for christians (Ref; girl 2 vs 14-15, 1 Peter chapter 1, etc). But Paul openly rebuked Peter and James for this act (girl 2 vs 11-13); however, Peter and James later observed correctly and agreed with Paul because:(1) they offered him helping hand; (2) recognised the Apostleship of Titus (a Gentile Christian helping Paul) without the need to circumcise him; (3) and they all agreed that there is One Lord, One Spirit, One Body of Christ called Christians with Jesus as the Head of the church. (Read 1st & 2nd epistles of Peter, James chapter 1-end, Ephesians chapters 2-4); (4) additionally that saving faith is through belief in sacrifice of Jesus Christ and not by works of circumcision, sabath, passover,etc and other jewish law celebrations or mosaic laws which the judaizers were trying to impose upon the christians. In fact, the entire epistle of James in the bible is directed at the early Jewish Christians heavily infuenced by the Judaizers and Judaism aiming to give further clarity fo the doctrine of Christianity and the removal of obligation from the law through faith in Jesus, and he taught synergistically with the teachings of Paul on salvation, saving faith that produces works, etc

Now, babs707, do you see why they say half education is dangerous!! What you have is half or even maybe quarter education and you based your knowledge on that; now you are looking like an illiterate because you refused to get full education by seeking to get your own understanding of the truth. I have given you specific verses and chapters from write-ups by Peter, James and Paul on this issue, so endeavour to read and get understanding, and don't rely on an internet page written by somebody like yourself. Maybe you will not read it, but others probably will and get to know the truth. There is nothing like "Judeo-Christianity" or "Pauline Christianity"; there is just ONE body of Christ called Christians. The term judeo-christianity is just used in literature figuratively to indicate that Christianity has it's root in Judaism. I am not sure you will understand this my response as it might too complex for you, but hopefully it will stimulate you to seek better understanding.
 

will get back to you soon with more evidence of your pauline christianity and also tell who paul really is and he started your religion havingf abolish jesus' teachings

@ TayoD,
Got tired of addressing him, really, i guess he is so lazy to read up the references quoted thats why he keeps oscillating about the same point he knows of.

As to havilla submission of ppoints here, i submit to that too.

I really don't understand why you guys keep on arguing on things your normal brain can reason.
First, ask yourself Is it possible for someone to just appear from the sky.When Jesus was born some 2 thousands years ago,he came the same way a normal child comes.Since he's a part of God, and the laws of the almighthy had been anchored here on earth and also since He(GOD) is perfect he can't disobey his laws, and thats the reason Jesus always said that He has not come to overthrow the laws of the Father to fufill them.He didnt just appear from the sky when he was born.
GUYS think for a moment,the law also said for a man to continue his journey to the spiritual realm he's got to leave this earthly cloak(physical death).For Jesus to have passed through all this don't degrade the mightiness of the Almighty but Only veneration and adoration that He is a perfect one.
So to his second coming,the law also play its role, its definitely not possible for someone to just appear from the sky.
And to those so-called christian looking up to the sky for him to come YOU WILL WAIT TILL THINE KNIGDOM COME.
Jesus also said to his disciples then "when the spirit of truth is come, he will lead you unto righteousness and reprove the world of sin and he will bring judgement,I come forth from the father and come unto the world and also am going back to the father, and you will henceforth see me no more"
What else do you need? Tell me

@ ndipe
yeah,continue waiting for the lord to appear from the sky, u better start to learn to good things, death is nearer with each new day, and nobody is going to save you when that time arrives.
You will be left alone

1st to your question, it is not possible for someone to just appear from the sky.Why didnt he just appear from the sky when he was about to be born?Think,you've got a brain up there.If you think the almighthy is wonderful, baby jesus should have been born through a man not a woman,maybe its then you will believe in the supernatural abilities of the Father.

And secondly,i never said Jesus is also GOD.Let me explain the concept of the trinity to UBefore creation there is just one God, and during creation he severe a part of himself known as the Holy spirit.It was through him that creation came into existence.Read your book of genesis. And the spirit of the lord move upon the surface of the earth and sees that it was void and without form, and said "let there be light"[b][/b]
It was just a part not the whole itself.So when it bacame necessary for a strong helper to bring the word of salvation to erring human beings,due to his love he severed a part himself which was incarnated in flesh and blood just as the human beings,but the difference is the inner core.The inner core of the humans is spirit while that of Jesus is divine.So never say The lord is spirit, divinity is far different from spirituality.The Lord is divine and we humans are spiritual.

Paul said in 1st cor. that we know in part and prophesy in part but when he that is perfect is come, all that is in part will be done away.Remember when he said this they already recieved the Holy Spirit, so don't confuse whinsutide with this.They(Disciples) were still expecting the so-called comforter then.And Jesus gave them some signs for them to recognize when he's come.
He said "He will remind you of all i have taught you, and will bring judgement". That means Jesus is not talking about himself here.He is no longer coming back and he also said if he don't go back to the father then the coming of the comforter wont be possible.
I shall write more about on this comforter.
These are only meant for the genuine truth seekers not   those who assumed they've known already.
And that task has been designated to the Son of Man.
Read Rev 1:4 Greetings from the Father, and he that was and is and which is to come, and also from Jesus Christ.You can see these are three personalities.
Reflect Deeply, remember the Bible is a spiritual book, and got to be understand spirtual or else it will remain like the book with seven seals.

waiting for your comments out there.Shalom

@Enitan.

With God, all things are possible. If the Holy Bible says that Jesus Christ will descend from Heaven with the shout of the Archangel, who are you to doubt that such a miracle is unbelievable. Even if you are disinclined to believe, then remember that God Almighty is capable of performing the Greatest Miracles in the Universe. Open your mind to God and quit doubting.

Enitan,

U failed to reason. Didn’t you read your post. The below is from your earlier write up. I never said he would appear from the sky. Read my write up. Read what u wrote below. ur post darkened.

So to his second coming,the law also play its role, its definitely not possible for someone to just appear from the sky.
And to those so-called christian looking up to the sky for him to come YOU WILL WAIT TILL THINE KNIGDOM COME.

U wrote the above and even NDIPE challenged you. If you are saying jesus wont appear from the sky, then kindly explain the below verse to NDIPE

1 Thessalonians 4:16: "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first"

If you think the almighthy is wonderful, baby jesus should have been born through a man not a woman, maybe its then you will believe in the supernatural abilities of the Father.

Mind you Nobody is doubting God’s work. Jesus’ birth has no specialty attached to it.

And secondly,i never said Jesus is also GOD.
Well, but your fellows in the like of mrpataki, havila, davidylan said so and they are Christians like you, maybe catholics and you Jehovah witness or protestants(na wa o)

Let me explain the concept of the trinity to UBefore creation there is just one God, and during creation he severe a part of himself known as the Holy spirit.It was through him that creation came into existence.Read your book of genesis. And the spirit of the lord move upon the surface of the earth and sees that it was void and without form, and said "let there be light"[b][/b]

We will probably open another thread for “TRINITY”.
Also to your above ‘let there be light”. That is what they call “KUN FAYAKUN” “ BE AND IT WILL BE” that is the power of God. If he needs and want to do something, he doesn’t need to go there, he will just say be and it will be. That’s the same word HE used in the creation of Adam, jesus and even you. It’s this word “BE” that you misconstrued to be another thing (but God willing, I will shed light on that probably on another thread in order not to deviate from this particular topic)

It was just a part not the whole itself.So when it bacame necessary for a strong helper to bring the word of salvation to erring human beings,due to his love he severed a part himself which was incarnated in flesh and blood just as the human beings,but the difference is the inner core.The inner core of the humans is spirit while that of Jesus is divine.So never say The lord is spirit, divinity is far different from spirituality.The Lord is divine and we humans are spiritual.

He severed a part of him, with cutlass or what? My brother, the birth of jesus has no difference from that of Adam. Even Adam’s birth was superior to jesus. What made him his birth special? Maybe u tell me and I will tell you other prophets that exhibit the same characteristics. He was carried for nine months like you, he ate, drink like you, he seek God’s assistance for everything, he was prosecuted like you, He receives his power from God being a prophet. So maybe u enlighten me what made him special

Paul said in 1st cor. that we know in part and prophesy in part but when he that is perfect is come, all that is in part will be done away.Remember when he said this they already recieved the Holy Spirit, so don't confuse whinsutide with this.

Are you saying the verse is referring to your bible or that the bible is perfect with all these authors in which a bible may contain a verse and not in another (if u need proof, request for it), or do u call the bible complete when your bible accept trinity and Jehovah witness doesn’t or u call it complete when your bible is not having MACABEES, JUDITH, ESTHERand other bible is having it. etc. think man. Which other incomplete have u done away with? And what is the incomplete part?

They(Disciples) were still expecting the so-called comforter then.And Jesus gave them some signs for them to recognize when he's come.
He said "He will remind you of all i have taught you, and will bring judgement". That means Jesus is not talking about himself here.He is no longer coming back and he also said if he don't go back to the father then the coming of the comforter wont be possible.

ARE U SAYING JESUS’ SECOND COMING WON’T MATERIALISE? What of His coming like a thief in the night and that all eyes will see him in which there will be two people and he will take one

I shall write more about on this comforter.
These are only meant for the genuine truth seekers not   those who assumed they've known already.
And that task has been designated to the Son of Man.
Read Rev 1:4 Greetings from the Father, and he that was and is and which is to come, and also from Jesus Christ.You can see these are three personalities.
Reflect Deeply, remember the Bible is a spiritual book, and got to be understand spirtual or else it will remain like the book with seven seals.

My brother, are u saying holy spirit is the comforter? Think man. Have u forgotten that the holy spirit has been in existence even before the birth of jesus. You will even recollect that its this holy spirit that gave mary the good news. SO WHY TELLING ME IT WAS THE HOLY SPIRIT JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT.
Jesus said that it is necessary for him to go that if he didn’t go, the comforter wont come, meaning that the comforter hasn’t been in existence then and planning to come. SO THINK MAN, THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE OF HOLY SPIRIT THAT HAS BEEN IN EXISTENCE AND OPERATING ALREADY RIGHT FROM CREATION.

HAVE I EXPLAINED TO YOU MY HONOURABLE BROTHER ENITAN.

Expecting to hear from you.



gbade.x,

well quite unfortunate for you and fortunate for me. Unfortunate for you in the sense that u r still wallowing in ignorance. I was born as a Christian and into a Christian family like you. I was a Christian for more than 20 years so there is nothing u can quote for me in the bible that am not aware of and even tell you where you have not even seen since your birth.

I was in the dark like you but received LIGHT and through that reverted my people back to ISLAM based on evidence, proof from the bible. So no need lecturing me on bible unless I want to do that for you. I don’t need to learn about Christianity, I was involved in it for years. 

mrpataki,

hope u r not trying to divert the topic.

well as for the reason for my leaving christianity, the reasons are glaring.

1. a sect believe that  jesus is God while others are saying he is not.
2. having gone through the bible, i detected some verses in some bible were expunged in some others.
3. also there is no unity, each sect comdeming each other. have u ever witnessed a christian preaching to you. at the tail end, he will end up by telling you to come to his church that its only his chruch that preaches faith and salvation.
4. a catholic condemning protestant while protestant condemns jehovah witness and they are christians,

( i have proof to back it up if u need)

ETC.

also i got to know that all biblical quotes on sonship, saviour, being crucified etc are all ruse.

mrpataki, gone are the days in which an individual will want to die over what is not provable, that is claiming that because u met some people doing it, it must be right and u must do it too no matter what they tell you without going having enough prove to back it up.

also am very conversant with most doctrines of each sect, ranging from CAC, Jehovah witness, catholic, deeper life, Chris Oyakhilome, Synagogue, seven day adventist etc.

LET ME STOP THERE

MRpataki,

thanks for your advise. the earlier you know, the better for you that jesus will deny u that day.

he was never sent to you.
he was never a saviour.
he was never crucified.
he was never a christian.

DO YOU NEED MORE?

HOPE UVE NOT DEVIATED FROM THE TOPIC AT HAND, AM WAITING FOR YOUR RESPONSE ON THAT.

IN ADDTION, U BEING A CHRISTIAN, A CONVERT WALK UP TO YOU CONFUSED AND THROW THESE QUESTIONS AT YOU. HOW WILL YOU DEFEND YOUR BIBLE AND YOUR RELIGION

Jesus' last words
Matt.27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" , Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."

Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

John19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."

WHICH WILL YOU TELL THE CONVERT TO ACCEPT because HE/SHE WONT BE ABLE TO CHOOSE ALL BUT JUST ONE AND WHAT WILL BE YOUR PROOF THAT THE ONE YOU ARE CHOOSING IS THE CORRECT?

SECONDLY,
Judas died how?
"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (Matt. 27:5)

"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (Acts 1:18)

HOW DO U EXPLAIN JUDAS' DEATH TO HIM/HER AND WHY WILL U CHOOSE ONE OUT OF THE ONE because U can't TELL HIM/HER THAT HE DIED IN BOTH WAYS?

^ actually, it's the other way round. It's not as if answers haven't been given, it's just you who refuses to see and accept these answers. Rejecting/refusing these answers doesn't mean answers were not given.