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slim-fit (m)
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@OLAADEGBU Farabale, I know you said nothing in the bible has contracdicted any scientific facts ok no problem, Am not saying its not possible in the spiritual realm(who knows) But please note your word SCIENTIFICALLY), My first question: Just explan this aspect Gen 1 vs 1 - 2 thats says "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" KJV Please explain scientifically how water can be there when something is formless was said to be EMPTY, to me It can be spiritually correct but at the moment its SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG,  2nd Question: How is it possible to have morning and evening for about 3 days of creation when what causes day and night was just created on the FOURTH DAY, spiritually possible but SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG,  Just curious, Peace, |
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OLAADEGBU (m)
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@OLAADEGBU Farabale, I know you said nothing in the bible has contracdicted any scientific facts ok no problem, Am not saying its not possible in the spiritual realm(who knows) But please note your word SCIENTIFICALLY), My first question: Just explan this aspect Gen 1 vs 1 - 2 thats says "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters" KJV Please explain scientifically how water can be there when something is formless was said to be EMPTY, to me It can be spiritually correct but at the moment its SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG, Verse 2 is circumstantial to verse 1. Verse 2 is in fact a description of the state of the originally created earth. When it says "And the earth was without form and void" it means "formless and void" The Hebrew words Tohu and Bohu are translated as "formless and void" which implies that the original universe was created unformed and unfilled and was, during 6 days, formed and filled by God's created actions. Verse 1 states that "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth" which is the summary but in verse 2 it went on to give a detailed description of what was created. Therefore, the simple, straightforward meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that, when God created the earth at the beginning, it was initially formless, empty and dark and, God's Spirit was there above the waters. It was through His creative energy that the world was then progressively formed and filled during the 6 days of creation. Simples. 2nd Question: How is it possible to have morning and evening for about 3 days of creation when what causes day and night was just created on the FOURTH DAY, spiritually possible but SCIENTIFICALLY WRONG, Just curious, Peace, It is important for us to allow the language of God's Word speak to us. If we come to Genesis 1 without any outside influences, such as the unproven assumed evolutionary geologic ages, we will discover that each of the 6 days of creation appears with the Hebrew word yom qualified by a number and the phrase "evening and morning." The first 3 days are written the same way as the next 3 days. So if we let the language of the Bible speak to us, all 6 days were ordinary days. The sun is not needed for day and night. What is needed is light and a rotating earth. On the first day of creation, God made light (Gen.1:3). The phrase "evening and morning" certainly implies a rotating earth. Thus, if we have light from one direction, and a spinning earth, there can be day and night. Where did the light come from? We are not told, if God told us everything, we would have so many books we would not have time to read them. God has given us all the information we need to come to the right conclusions about things that really matter. Genesis 1:3 certainly indicates it was a created light to provide day and night until God made sun on Day 4 to rule the day. Revelation 21:23 tells us that one day the sun will not be needed because the glory of God will light the heavenly city. Perhaps one reason God did it this way was to illustrate that the sun did not have the priority in the creation that people have tended to give it. The sun did not give birth to the earth as evolutionary theories postulate, the sun was God's created tool to rule the day that God had made (Gen.1:16). Down through the ages, people such as the Egyptians have worshipped the sun. God warned the Israelites, in Deuteronomy 4:19, not to worship the sun as the pagan cultures around them did. They were commanded to worship the God who made the sun, not the sun that was made by God. Evolutionary theories that you have bought, hook, line and sinker, state that the sun came before the earth and that the sun's energy on the earth eventually gave rise to life. Just as in pagan beliefs, the sun is, in a sense, given credit for the wonder of creation. This is what one of the early church father (Theophilus) wrote to Autolycus defending creation science: "On the 4th day the luminaries came into existence. Since God has foreknowledge, he understood the nonsense of the foolish philosophers who were going to say that the things produced on Earth came from the stars, so that they might set God aside. In order therefore that the truth might be demonstated, plants and seeds came into existence before stars. For what comes into existence later cannot cause what is prior to it." |
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OLAADEGBU (m)
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Messianic Prophecies in the Bible Fulfilled
"For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and feet" (Psalm 22:16).
This reads as though it was dictated in the first person singular as Jesus hung on the cross, even though it was written 800 years earlier. Let's pick just one of the phrases there: "they pierced my hands and my feet." What makes this remarkable is that it was written by David 700 years before crucifixion was even invented! The form of capital punishment in Israel used to be by stoning and not crucifixion. Crucifixion was invented by the Persians about 90 B.C. and was adopted heavily by the Romans. But here, 800 years before the fact, all of Psalm 22 graphically portays crucifixion. In fact, there have been articles in the American Medical Association Journal based on Psalm 22 analysing the medical cause of death by crucifixion.
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slim-fit (m)
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@OLAADEGBU I dont know if you read carefully or you just combine so many english to suit yourself, The argument here is If it tallys with the scientific proof, From your last paragraph, (Therefore, the simple, straightforward meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that, when God created the earth at the beginning, it was initially formless, empty and dark and, God's Spirit was there above the waters. It was through His creative energy that the world was then progressively formed and filled during the 6 days of creation) You dont still understand, If it was empty and formless where did the spirit of God finds the waters before moving upon its face(note the earth was empty and water hasnt been created) Provide logical explanations where the water from an empty and formless earth came from Simple, And for the second question HOW CAN THERE BE A MORNING AND EVENING WITHOUT A SUN, (please be careful and dont repeat that word again saying the sun is not needed for day and night.even if its rotation) scientifically everybody knows what causes day and night is the rotation of the earth around the sun and the moon as the night, And if you say it was light and you dont know where the light came from scientifically then it means the bible is not scientifically proven about the creation of the earth Abeg take am easy with your illustrate and read well, Am always online on the yahoo messenger if you will like a chat about this, p.onyemsp@yahoo.comPeace, |
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OLAADEGBU (m)
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@OLAADEGBU
I dont know if you read carefully or you just combine so many english to suit yourself,
I did carefully read your submission. I know where you are coming from and where you are heading to. The argument here is If it tallys with the scientific proof,
If you carefully consider what the Bible is saying you will come to the conclusion that science is consistent with the Bible's claims and that real scientists confirm the Bible. From your last paragraph, (Therefore, the simple, straightforward meaning of Genesis 1:1-2 is that, when God created the earth at the beginning, it was initially formless, empty and dark and, God's Spirit was there above the waters. It was through His creative energy that the world was then progressively formed and filled during the 6 days of creation)
You dont still understand, If it was empty and formless where did the spirit of God finds the waters before moving upon its face(note the earth was empty and water hasnt been created)
If you don't understand verse 1 you will miss the rest of the Biblical account of creation. Verse 1 states that in the beginning God created the heaven and earth. This was the sum total of the creation of the universe and all that is within it. Verse 2 went on to describe the originally created earth. At this point the earth was without form and void that is, it was unformed and unfilled, the land and water as a result of the creation in verse 1. Verse 2 shows how He formed and filled the universe and the earth in particular. Provide logical explanations where the water from an empty and formless earth came from Simple, As said earlier, that God created the earth at the beginning which obviously included the waters, He then progressively formed and filled it during 6 days of creation. The first 3 days was used to form it and the next 3 days was used to fill it. Let me give an analogy described by a scientist in the making of a vase by a potter. The first thing the potter does is to gather a ball of clay which is unformed and then he progresses to shape it into a vase, using his potter's wheel. Now that the ball of clay is no longer formless. He then dries it, applies glaze, and then fires it. The vase is then ready to be filled with flower and water. You will notice that at no time could one of the stages be considered evil or bad. It was just unfinished, unformed and unfilled. When the vase was finally formed and filled, it could then be described as "very good." Simples. And for the second question HOW CAN THERE BE A MORNING AND EVENING WITHOUT A SUN, (please be careful and dont repeat that word again saying the sun is not needed for day and night.even if its rotation) scientifically everybody knows what causes day and night is the rotation of the earth around the sun and the moon as the night,
The same way the New Jerusalem, the new heaven and earth will not need the sun as the light. For your information God originates and creates these laws which humans only try to discover and formulate as they try to understand the workings of God. It was Johannes Kepler who said that "Mathematics is thinking God's thoughts after Him" Scientists thought that the earth was flat but the Bible had always said that the earth was not only round (sphere) but that it rotates as a potter's wheel which is an accurate descripton of the earth's rotation. The earlier scientists started taking the Bible serious the better will there findings will be. And if you say it was light and you dont know where the light came from scientifically then it means the bible is not scientifically proven about the creation of the earth Abeg take am easy with your illustrate and read well, Am always online on the yahoo messenger if you will like a chat about this, p.onyemsp@yahoo.comPeace, As I said earlier, scientists have a long way to go in their effort to discover the workings of God. It is those who take the Word of God as authoritative over and above the fallible words of man that will be ahead in discovering the wonders of God's creation. |
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slim-fit (m)
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@OLAADEGBU
Please pick up your bible and read Gen 1 1 - 3
You will understand that verse 1 is a summary of what happened But VERSE 2 was telling us the status of earth when it was about to be created, take note that VERSE 3 now starts with the creation of the earth,
Your quote "Verse 2 shows how He formed and filled the universe and the earth in particular" which i find completely wrong because it doesnt show us how it was formed and filled and infact it was JUST TELLING US HOW THE EARTH WAS ORIGINALLY BEFORE THE CREATION STARTED, please,
If you read it carefully and scientifically then am sure the english there isnt difficult and its self explanatory, you will find out that the waters have already existed even when the earth was without form and was said to be void(empty) before the creation of anything bro,
If we take a scientific look at the creation of the earth according to GEN you will understand that it is pure allegory, Please take note of the word SCIENTIFIC
And your theory about the day and night too was completely unaccepted, Because According to scientist and i repeat according to scientist there cant be a day and night without the sun and moon because that is what causes it, FORGET ABOUT THE LIGHT YOU CANT EXPLAIN FOR NOW, until they found that light then you will have your scientific back ups,
Your quote "scientists have a long way to go in their effort to discover the workings of God" so please for now it is still not scientifically supported that is what am telling you, Your claims should be with a scientific proof and since is not for now i think you should just understand its not, Although i quite agree with you on the above quote as well but for now please chill,
Peace.
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OLAADEGBU (m)
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Sunlight Before the SunAccording to Scripture, God "created the heaven and the earth" on Day One of Creation Week (Genesis 1:1). Initially all was dark, until God said, "Let there be light" (v. 3). Days Two and Three saw the oceans, firmament (or atmosphere), continents, and plants formed, as the earth was being progressively prepared for man's habitation. It was on Day Four that God created the sun, moon, and stars, proclaiming, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven" (v. 14), one purpose of which was "to give light upon the earth" (v. 15). This light was directional, coming from a particular source. The earth was evidently rotating underneath it, causing alternating periods of light and dark. "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night" (v. 5). Skeptics have long ridiculed the science of biblical creation over this point. How could there be light bathing the earth before the sun was created? Obviously the Bible must be in error. But as always, this apparent error drives us to look more closely at the relevant data, both scientific and biblical. Actually there are many sources of light, not just the sun. There are also many types of light, not just visible light. Short-wave light includes ultraviolet light, X-rays, and others. Long-wave light includes infrared light, radio waves, etc. Light is produced by friction, by fire, by numerous chemical reactions, as well as the nuclear reactions of atomic fission and fusion, which is what we think is occurring in the sun. God had at His fingertips many options to accomplish His purposes. Light does not automatically require the sun. Furthermore, we have important data given by the Hebrew words used in the creation account. When God created "light" in verse 3, the word used connotes the presence of light only, while the word used for "lights" on Day Four is best translated "light bearers," or permanent light sources. Their purpose was not only to give light, but to serve as timekeepers for man once he was created. According to the best stellar creation theory now available, light from stars created anywhere in the universe on Day Four would reach earth in two earth days, and would be useful to Adam on Day Six. (For more information, see Dr. Russell Humphrey's cosmology articles on www.icr.org.) Keep in mind that the Creation Week was a uniquely miraculous time, and we are justified in speculating that miraculous events may have been taking place outside of today's natural laws. Especially when we realize that "God is light" (1 John 1:5) Himself, thus no outside natural source is necessarily mandated. For semi-creationists who claim that the "days" of Genesis 1 must have been long periods of time, a more serious problem arises. Genesis plainly teaches that plants appeared on Day Three, and the sun on Day Four. But plants need sunlight for photosynthesis and cannot wait in darkness for millions of years. If the days were long epochs, as demanded by critics of a literal Creation Week, plants could not survive. How much better and more satisfying it is to accept Scripture as it stands. It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed.
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slim-fit (m)
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I'm glad there isnt any more argument about the waters stuff however, Your explanations are baseless according to the light we are talking about here because it obviously says there were morning and evening in those days and those light are not spiritual "God is light" It shows a physical light,
But however to avoid further argument you should have just sent this quote to me since "It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed"
Instead of writing down so many words.As simple and short as that statement is answers to what you are and would believe either scientifically true or not because someone with a RELIGIOUS MIND is about what he/she BELIEVES AND NOT WHAT IS ACTUALLY REAL, This is fact IF ONLY YOU BUT KNOW,
Peace.
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OLAADEGBU (m)
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I'm glad there isnt any more argument about the waters stuff however, Your explanations are baseless according to the light we are talking about here because it obviously says there were morning and evening in those days and those light are not spiritual "God is light" It shows a physical light,
But however to avoid further argument you should have just sent this quote to me since "It doesn't need to be fully understood and explained by modern scientific thought; it just needs to be believed and obeyed"
Instead of writing down so many words.As simple and short as that statement is answers to what you are and would believe either scientifically true or not because someone with a RELIGIOUS MIND is about what he/she BELIEVES AND NOT WHAT IS ACTUALLY REAL, This is fact IF ONLY YOU BUT KNOW,
Peace.
You have chosen to believe man's fallible ideology over God's Word, to you the words of man has more authority over the revealed Word of God. The Bible is clear. Water and earth were all created in Day 1 if you don't understand it is because you have refused to see it, and that's your choice. Whatever is natural came from the supernatural unless you don't believe in the supernatural. God spoke the heaven and earth into existence and it is up to believe His revealed Word that explains how He created this World. What is Truth and what are facts? The Truth is far superior to the scientific facts because the facts change as scientists discover more facts. But do you know the Truth? The Truth is not a concept but a Person, and that Person is Jesus Christ who is the way, the truth and the life. If you want to know the truth you have to humble yourself, empty yourself of man's fallible ideas and start by believing the Biblical truths of the wonders of creation as revealed in the Bible. |
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viaro
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Hello OLAADEGBU, I was captivated by this statement you made: The Bible is clear. Water and earth were all created in Day 1 if you don't understand it is because you have refused to see it, and that's your choice. Wait. . . wait. . wait! What do you mean by the highlighted? Could you please elucidate? |
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slim-fit (m)
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Hmmmmmmmmmmm
Obviously hes starting to get frustrated, Anyway the bible showed us water existed according to verse 2 which was telling us the status of the earth before it got created in which the same verse said it was without form and void (empty) Verse 1 is a summary of the heave and earth creation while verse 2 was the status and never tells us anything about the creation of the water,
Really for every religion the only truth you seek for will be found on the day of judgment and not now or in this world, So theres no point talking about the truth here because i wont like to go into too many details about this,
You are a christian fine and you ve showed your ignorance to how much you will defend a book that was written many years after jesus death( meaning he wasnt alive to confirm if any was wrong or being exagerated), some of the new testament writers talked as if they have met jesus one on one and we all knew they didnt, Do you also know that the KJV was written and authorised by that king as well (meaning he could easily disapprove anyone or verses he doesnt want, Note that there are many compilations of the bible then), It was said that Moses was the Author of Genesis so i guess he was there when God created the earth (atleast if he had a dream or revelation he should have started from there),
I wouldnt have said so much but your mention of TRUTH really hurt me because i believe in the Bible as well but from my readings and enough findings i came to a conclusion that the ORIGINAL BIBLE HAS BEEN LONG GONE,
HINT: Do you know there are now several bible translation now not 1 or 2, and they dont even have the same meaning when you read them by verse,
I hope one day you know that the only WAY, TRUTH AND THE LIGHT IS BEING A GOOD PERSON and i can assure you that will guarantee you THIS WORLD and even the HEREAFTER if ever theres one,
Peace,
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viaro
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@slim-fit, I'm surprised that while you were trying to set OLAADEGBU right, you have not made one bit of rational sense yourself. This is the type of scenario that often makes us wonder about how people tend to see themselves in their own importance while failing to be objective. Just a small appendage to your assertion: Anyway the bible showed us water existed according to verse 2 which was telling us the status of the earth before it got created in which the same verse said it was without form and void (empty) The bold refers, please. The status of the earth before " it" got created - what is that " it"? Before what was created? You don't try to call others ignorant if you're not articulate yourself. Really for every religion the only truth you seek for will be found on the day of judgment and not now or in this world, So theres no point talking about the truth here because i wont like to go into too many details about this, Lol, now that takes the icing on the cake! There is no point talking about the truth here, did I just read you state that claim? So, the best we can do is continue to tell ourselves the direct opposite of the truth here. . and then wake up on the day of judgment to do what? Is it not some form of 'truth' that determines your fate in that day? On what grounds would your assertion here stand on that day - that there was 'no point in talking about the truth here'? When people make the sort of statement you just did, I just shake my head in stark unbelief and the sheer space in anyone's brain to even make such an assertion. But again, since there's no point, as you said, there won't be any point reading your reaction either - for all I care, there's no point trying to see any value in what you argue. |
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slim-fit (m)
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@viaro The IT is the EARTH and Before it was CREATED that was what verse 2 is telling us here, i think its simple, Its like having a box that you will name BINGO now bingo was without form and void, Note that the name can be given to anything even before it got created, Please read Gen 1 - 3 and if you find any questions to what i said be free to ask, I understand your point of view and i think you mis understood me but the truth am refering here is THE TRUTH ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEF, He mentioned TRUTH in his statement and i was trying to let him understand that the truth itself based on religion cant be proven completely correctly without errors until if world ends, Which i think its the reasonable fact about any religion or atheist. If we continue to argue about religion both xtian and muslims and atheists will continue to prove and disprove their claims, And to OLAADEGBU sorry if that word "IGNORANCE" sounds offensive, Seriously i didnt mean it, Muslims belief in what they do and xtians believe in what they do and so as the atheists, This is just going to come up with a whole big argument without anything positive, Note that its not all just about the TRUTH here is about the results. Its easier to change the world and make it a better place by actions and not by words, MOST PEOPLE WHO ARE EITHER XTIANS OR MUSLIMS DOES THAT YOU KNOW, Peace. |
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viaro
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Fair enough, slim-fit. I would not have bothered to read through yours or even commented; but just so you don't get me coming off wrong. The IT is the EARTH and Before it was CREATED that was what verse 2 is telling us here, i think its simple, Its like having a box that you will name BINGO now bingo was without form and void, Note that the name can be given to anything even before it got created, Please read Gen 1 - 3 and if you find any questions to what i said be free to ask, I still have questions to ask you directly, but may be later (depending on how it goes between us). However, having read Gen 1-3, I don't see how you actually got the sense in those chapters or verses. Genesis 1:1 is a statement that is complete in itself - 'In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth'. The creation of the heavens and the earth was already accomplished fact in verse 1; verse 2 is not suggesting that the earth had not yet been created in verse 1. If you get this, then there's no need to assume it was the earth before it was created. I understand your point of view and i think you mis understood me but the truth am refering here is THE TRUTH ABOUT RELIGIOUS BELIEF, He mentioned TRUTH in his statement and i was trying to let him understand that the truth itself based on religion cant be proven completely correctly without errors until if world ends, Which i think its the reasonable fact about any religion or atheist. If we continue to argue about religion both xtian and muslims and atheists will continue to prove and disprove their claims, Okay, I apologise for misunderstanding you; although I don't want to enter into long arguments about why I don't agree with your summary. |
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slim-fit (m)
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@viaro
Gen 1:1 is complete itself and yes that is CONFIRMED just has i said earlier.
Gen 1:2 You are right but what am trying to say is that verse 2 is telling us the status of the earth before its now being created or maybe the word to use it FILLED,
I know it might be hard to see my point here but its actually not that hard,
Take for example the box named BINGO i talked about, Now bingo has a box already existing but its not yet called BINGO but its still just a BOX, Now Until after the box was completely filled(created or manipulated) It was now named BINGO, Now it is possible to ignore calling it a box in the first place because seeing it they will know its a Box so it will be normal to just go ahead and talk about BINGO since the box has a name now, Do note that now we can say BINGO HAS BEEN CREATED even though it was just filled up, Its still the same thing.
In otherwords, am not saying the earth as not yet being created in verse 2 not at all (pardon me if i used the word created instead of filled) but the earth has already existed and created maybe on another name before its called earth but this earth according to verse 2 was without form and void(empty) that was what verse 2 is telling us, but until after the complete FILLING of the earth was it COMPLETED,
Am sure you still understand my line of debate here about the waters in the verse 2 whereas the creation/filling actually started in Verse 3
Do note that spiritually alot of things can happen without our explanation but we are talking based on the POSTERS scientific point of view,
Please feel free to contact me,
Peace.
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