The Ted Haggard Scandal

babyosisi u are asking if he does not have friends / family to confide in
i bet he must have been battling with it internally all this while and we both knwo when u are in such high repute u are lookde unto as an idol and not expected to wither

but we do forget that these folks are humans infact until we changed our perpective of pastors and church leaders and see the pastor thing as their job the way we go to ours and therefore they r liable to fall also if not we would continue to have judgemental folks like the few i have seen inthis thread wag their mouth

they would be here shouting hell and fire but the man may have made peace with GOd

we all have issues to deal with in our lives from very little pilfering to white lie to backbitting and gossip but the good part is God's love is large enough to accomodate us and forgive us so lets learn to forgive him

well if anyone say they  don't have any sin in them then why r some so angry with haggard because anger over night is sin so they too are guilty

sin is sin for all have sinned and come short his glory ,  we knwo the rest . we should learn to forgive people in the church when they fall

the man might have been going through torment lets ask his wife for instance is she truly a wife or a figure head wife

is there still love existing between them  was she depreiving him of sex and all that. we wont know that what we know for sure he was and still been accused of homosexuality well he claims he only bough tdrugs he did not sleep with the guy

i would prefer to beleive him than believe the other guy he might have needed the drugs to continue keeping up to the hype because probably he felt he has lost it at some point
most of us here might do same

God still loves us irrespective of what we have done so lets help our pastors and not run them down, it is just like a regular job

TayoD,

As touching personalities, I always have time for you, not because we share doctrinal positions or for any personal reasons, but solely because I sense you are somewhat sincere (even if sincerely wrong  ). I know from experience that if one truly seeks God for Himself, He will be found.

That said, I am quite dissapointed at your responses on this thread. You started by lambasting me for no coherent reason whatsoever. When I pointed this out (amongst other things) in a short six point reponse, your replying post failed (intentionally I take it ) to answer any of my points. Instead you again went on to erroneously ascribe things to me and then try and rubbish my person & doctrine. I thought you'D leave the ad-hominem invective to political spin doctors and presidential  advisors, but I do understand, given your amour for politics.

I am sore dissapointed by your failure to stick to the points in hand, keep to doctrine and scripture and not let your emotions dictate your responses.

I'll try and respond direct to the points? you raised later.

God bless

Hi TayoD,

Continuing our discussion.

You're in red I'm in blue. You can be the home team.

Even Christ understood the fact that it takes men to point others to Him, no wonder He said to Peter three times to feed his sheep.  

Pray tell, did the Lord expect these fed to remain in need of feeding forever? Would you expect a younger brother of yours to be dependant on your for the entirety of his life?

Going by your conclusions, are we then to condemn Apostle Paul for telling us to follow him as he follows Christ?   And I wonder why there are stories of other men who serve God in the Bible if all we are to do is just keep our attention only on Jesus and not on the heritage of faith that others have left for us and are living in front of us.

You really do believe that faith in Jesus Christ is at least in part predicated on a relationship with MOGS don’t you. The Lord said “My sheep” He also said “My voice”. He went on to say “follow me”. And further “Take up your cross and follow me”. Due mostly to your flawed understanding of Christian relationship and interaction (you probably – knowingly or unknowingly – cling to an organisational/hierarchical model of church), you really can’t see it can you? Paul met with the Lord. Have you? Have you even met with Paul? “The treasure is in jars of clay, that the excellency may be of God”. We all imitate our earthly fathers or elder brothers, but you have to be able to stand. You really feel that giving attention to men will aid your walk? Can you tell the difference between a sheep and a lemming?

Hebrews 13: 7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.  But of course, according to the Gospel of TV01, that is tantamount to the works of the flesh.

Follow their faith, not them. Their example. Daddy was a coal miner and worked hard. Is it about being a coal miner or working hard? Dude, get understanding!

So the Old Testament is now anachronistic, unprofitable for doctrine, for reproof, correction and instructions in righteousness?  A clear case of what our reactions should be to the fall of a brother as illustrated by David's attitude is not applicable to us as Christians?

Again, you fail to read and respond in turn. I said you were misapplying the OT, your response is to say I am declaring it redundant. Speaks volumes about your reasoning and thought processes. BTW, the NT says rebuke sin and restore a fallen brother in love. The OT is not a template for NT Christian life. BY trying to force fit it, and ham-fistedly misapply it, you are undermining the fullness to be found in the NT.

Men, I wonder what you will teach in your church when you eventually become an Elder (since you do not believe in pastorship).

Again your ignorance thunders. An elder and a pastor are to a great degree synonymous. Again, you wrongly ascribe and plain misunderstand. I believe in the Lord. “Pastorship” is not something one believes in, it’s something one understands (or fails to) and applies (or mis-applies)accordingly. I have said time and again, there is no scriptural mandate for a “Pastorship” as commonly used in many churches these days, and that would include the sort assumed by Ted Haggard (I’m 100% sure that you won’t attempt to validate your “pastorship” stance from scripture, as it can’t be done!).

Your conclusions baffle me about Ted being a victim of the church structure.  When are you going to understand that the things which defile a man come from the inside (the heart) unto the outside?  How come others in such a position are not Homosexuals.  We know of the heritage of faith left by Kenneth E. Hagin.  Not once was he caught up in any scandal.  And he was in ministry for 70 years of his 86 years on earth.  Again, you will tell us it is not about personalities, but you will see the personality in the instance of a fall, but wouldn't in the instance of a triumph.

Please see my immediate previous response. The flawed structure and unscriptural mandates speak to and feed the flesh. The outworking is what you see all around you. There is a difference between a man honoured and respected as an elder (scriptural), and one revered and deferred to as a MOG (not scriptural).

I have nothing to say about anyone, but please hear this -  “For I know nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord”. Paul could not even presume to declare himself guiltless. And here you are endorsing a mere man, whom I doubt you even met. But then again, you venerate those who you haven’t even seen. Working hard for that "Mogsbottom" title

I am eagerly awaiting your response. I am actually quite keen to see just how far off point you can go, and convoluted you will be, to try and sustain a losing position.

God bless

@kaercy 5,in the letter last Sunday to his Church he admitted to sin of sexual immorality.
@Gamine it was a 3 year affair not a one time thing.
That said, God is still all forgiving.

we are all to flee from ALL appearances of evil.
Very seemingly innocent moves can develop into monsters.

Aight, heard about this shi. . . err sorry, i meant smack sometime ago. Really sad. But then he's only human."all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Gotta pray for the brother. . . and for me too. Damn, been watching too much porn! Though, i've laid off it for like a month now.

@TV01,

dude, i don't understand that personality thingy. If you say you ain't going after their personalities, then what are you going after? You can't speak en mass because this ain't statistics. And if you say you ain't personalities, then you are using that haggard brother as an example.
Look, the point is, sin is sin and we're all humans embodied in this flesh. So irrespective of status or authority, we all face sin. And i think the problem's not in a pastor sheperding a huge flock, i believe it's a matter of the flesh overcoming that homey, Period! And since we "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", who are we to condemn?
I hope ya now get the picture? 

Aight, heard about this shi. . . err sorry, i meant smack sometime ago. Really sad. But then he's only human."all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Gotta pray for the brother. . . and for me too. Damn, been watching too much porn! Though, i've laid off it for like a month now.

@TV01,

dude, i don't understand that personality thingy. If you say you ain't going after their personalities, then what are you going after? You can't speak en mass because this ain't statistics. And if you say you ain't personalities, then you are using that haggard brother as an example.
Look, the point is, sin is sin and we're all humans embodied in this flesh. So irrespective of status or authority, we all face sin. And i think the problem's not in a pastor sheperding a huge flock, i believe it's a matter of the flesh overcoming that homey, Period! And since we "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", who are we to condemn?
I hope ya now get the picture? 

He admitted to sexual immorality but not gay sex. He admitted to buying drugs but not using it.

lol.
let's not put words in his mouth,read the above letter again,so without the word gay  the above phrase means something else.You are funny.

His wife's name is GAYle?

this is also from the letter.

3. Please forgive my accuser. He is revealing the deception and sensuality that was in my life. Those sins, and others, need to be dealt with harshly. So, forgive him and actually, thank God for him. I am trusting that his actions will make me, my wife and family, and ultimately all of you, stronger. He didn’t violate you; I did.

ynot,he had a salary.
We have a bigger issue here than the small amount spent on meth and gay sex.
His soul is what we need to focus on and join in interceeding on his behalf

we need to pray for your soul too(and mine).

Ynot, we are all sinners in the eyes of God. It is only the Grace of God that has absolved us of our sins.

As for guy in this sex scandal, for us, it is not a time for rejoicing, but like Babyosi wrote, lets not even give satan the devil the chance to steal his soul.

One of my favourite quotes remains: "the best of men are still men at their very best". the fact that a preacher "messes up" does not change the possible truth in the message(s) he's preached. If verifiable news about Pastor Adeboye of RCCG (or anyother preacher for that matter) filters in to reveal some sordid habits, does that change how many people God has blessed through them? My call is; follow God, pick his possible messages from men but don't wlak blindly behind them. I've headed a campus fellowship before and i sincerely know the times i was really on a low point in my life but was required to still encourage people in fellowship. I see it that most God help us all.

@Ghengis,
Thanks for this short but very very matured post of yours. What you are describing is simply the 'spirit of discernment' which EVERY christian is supposed to pray for, nuture by personally reading and researching the word of God, pray for wisdom in understanding and seeking clarifications from appointed elders or teachers at times. However, a lot of us are either too spiritually lazy to do this; prefering hook, line and sinker sermons and pastor worshipping. Or at the other extreme, are those who are too spiritually proud resulting in their counfounded interpretation of the scriptures, as well as jugdemental and self-righteous paradigm of thinking.

@All, this is a word of exhortation by Bob Gass (N.B: colours and emphasis in bracket is mine), enjoy:

Topic: STANDING IN THE GAP

Ezekiel 22:30 -- "And I sought a man from among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land."

The GAP is the place between what is and what can be! Your family may not be walking with God, but you can become the bridge between them and heaven ('so that they eventually become saved'),,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,When some child of God fails (or 'falls' as in this case), don't join the gossip circle --- stand in the gap for them. First talk to God on their behalf and, If God tells you, speak to them in love and restoration.Galatians 6:1 says-- "Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one." The only people likely to do this are SPIRITUAL people. The 'others' will either stand by silently or dig the hole deeper (,,,,'in self-righteous indignation').
Refuse to give your loved ones over to sickness and death, unless you've clearly heard from God that they've finished their course. ('Has anybody heard from God He is finished with Ted Haggard?') You don't have to go to Bible school or be ordained to do this (i.e stand in Gap). You can "stand in the gap" for anyone, anywhere, at any time.
God bless.