Biblical Contradictions: What should we believe

Ajisafe,

You seem to have some deep issues with christians. You go around all the forums critisising born again christians. I bet this forum is a dream come true for you. What you need to do is stop critisising other people and TAKE THE LOG OUT OF YOUR OWN EYE. Give it a rest. Nobody wants to listen. If you have a problem with The Bible and Christians, Take it up with God!

As for the 'Bible condradictions' the words of the bible go deeper than WORDS. If you read the bible as a book, thats all it will be. Each chapter of the bible is like a stage of a christians life. While reading it you should have the holy spirit present. Then it will be of full meaning!

Quick prayer :
Lord almighty, we are sorry for doubting you lord. I pray that you will send your holy spirit down lord to help us people, show us lord that the bible is not just words but of mightiful meaning. Lord the devil is messing with our minds but lord you are mighty God, I pray that you will BREAK whatever spirit is causing this biblical confusion, In jesus name. AMEN

So, what's really your point?

It's unfortunate that I did not see this topic before today. And I'm doubly surprised that it's only a few verses here and there from Genesis to the NT that seems to be your worry. Why? Well, to be a thorough skeptic or atheist will require nothing less than 1,189 mistakes to be purveyed from the pages of the Bible - assuming that one verse will equal one contradiction. I shall limit my comments to Christianity and the Bible, so that I don't wear you out with the additional task of ferreting contradictions in every verse in the Qur'an, every verse in the Book of Mormon, every verse in the Veda, and every verse in the _____.

I just want to know something: elbaron, are you seriously seeking truth and reason, or you're hell-bent on amusing yourself with a personal campaign against Christianity?

Whatever your own interpretation or ideas of "truth" and "reason", they are of little import to me at this point. At least, at the basic level, if something is not true, then it is a lie; and if something is unreasonable, then it lacks reason. It applies both ways - to you and me.  Now, if you're are saying that the Bible is not true because of the Genesis verses and others you quoted, wait until you go through the other books and chapters - altogether 1,189 verses.

It would help to make a succinct statement as to the reason why you're quoting the verses you did. Genesis to Malachi are contradictory, and the rest of the Bible gives you sleepless nights, not so? I'll be thrilled to see your "part 15" sequel, since you stated on the first page that we should be on the look out for part two - and you'll still have another 1,174 sequels to your campaign. Am I sounding ridiculous already? I hope not. But it just goes to show that by quoting those verses in display of apparent contradiction, you're not achieving anything personally.

I don't believe the Genesis quotes are contradictory in themselves, and it's funny that you lifted those questions from a skeptic website. Nothing wrong in that, except that it doesn't seem at all that you checked the facts for yourself in the Bible to see how unreasonable those fellows could be. You have nothing to show personally that your views are founded on verifiable convictions that you have tested in your own experience. If you have carefully thought out your misconceptions and checked your quotes from the Bible itself, perhaps you would have taken a different view and not have attempted this beggarly amusement of the chaps at the skeptic website where you plagiarised their weak 'interpretations' of the Bible . I'll give you an example:
   ________________________________________
   6. Math quiz: How many animals went on the Ark?
   (GEN 6:19-20) God told Noah to take with him on the ark two of every kind of animal to include birds, animals and creeping things.
   (GEN 7:2-3) God told Noah to take with him on the ark seven of every clean animal and bird and two of every unclean animal.
   ____________________________________________________________ ___________________________________________

So, the question is whether the number is two or seven? Look closely: in GEN 6:19-20, "two of every kind of animal" clearly points to the male and the female (that is, a pair) - and this two "male and female" includes every kind of animal - whether clean or unclean. Infact, read the Bible yourself to see that Gen.6:19 says the "two" refers to the male and female of every animal.
In GEN 7:2-3, while the clean animals are to be seven in number, that does not contradict the fact that this seven should include the "two" (male and female) of GEN.6:19-20. The same thing could be said of the two of every unclean animal. So, instead of having taken just "two" camels (that is, a pair - the male and female), the total number of camels that Noah would have brought into the ark would be four. Why is this? For the simple reason that a camel was regarded as an unclean animal in Lev.11:4.

I could almost write a Bible encyclopedia to show that the verses giving you sleepless nights are not contradictory but require careful study to see their contexts. Once you've made up your mind to be adverse to something, the rest is history - because it will be difficult to make sense at all in any thing you seek to attack if that is your underlying thought.

Let me ask you one question: are you seeking the truth of Christianity and the Bible, or you've made up your mind to just seek to be antagonistic? At least, help is readily available if you seek the former. However, if your purpose is simply to attack and ridicule a faith that you have no inkling about, don't waste your time: you're attempting something greater than your small frame.

elbaron,

It is unfortunate that your language went a bit too far and uncalled for. If you felt insulted by my expressions, I'D have expected you to have pointed that out, in which case I would apologise. I did not take a personal swing at you as you claimed. But if you felt that way in reading my replies, I offer my apology. However, to openly call me a bastard was not being 'reasonable' or 'sensible' on your part, was it?

However, I'm sorry to note that you still failed to see the answer to your question in my explanations of the Gen.6:19-20 and Gen.7:2-3. It sounds like you simply refused to check the facts for yourself - and that is why I was left with no other option than to surmise that you had other motives than a genuine concern.

 elbaron:  Did it not occur to you that for your explanation to apply God would have said "take 7 animals
                           of a kind and ensure that there is a male and a female".

If that is the kind of statement you want, then you ought to have checked it out for yourself in the Bible. And that is precisely the sense in Gen.7:2 - "Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female,,," How does that statement differ in meaning from "take 7 animals of a kind and ensure that there is a male and a female"?

 elbaron: "What you believe here is immaterial, what is material is that you attempt an explanation of the contradictions."

Which is precisely what I have done. If you're not reading inputs before you draw conclusions, you'll keep making incoherent statements that have no bearing on the subject being addressed. I don't think I imposed my beliefs on you by explaining what you considered a contradiction. There were no contradictions in the verses and that's what Gen.7:2 points out. If my contributions or explanations are only valid on the grounds that you require me to concur with your views, would that sound like you are genuinely open to the views of other people and sincerely inviting a genuine concern and search for rational or reasonable discussions? It is quite unfortunate that you put up such an attitude and at the same time expect people to make reasonable inputs. That was why I asked if you were seriously seeking truth and reason or you were hell-bent on a personal campaign against Christianity. So, you wanted an explanation for John 3:13? How is anyone's attempts at explaining that going to be of 'material' benefit to you if you're not open to reason?

 elbaron: "What I am saying is that the premise under which god is held is wrong because no god can exist and be so inherently contradictory."

There are many contradictory statements that you make in your own posts, while trying to point out that an 'omnipotent and omnipresent god ought not to have contradictions and ambiguities'. On the one hand, you wrote that "the premise under which god is held is wrong", which to me supposes that, at least, there should be a "right or correct premise", and which you made no attempt to proffer. But to come back and say that "the concept of god is an illusion" runs directly opposite to your own earlier statement. This is like saying that "God does not exist" and at the same time say that "God is dangerous" - as, in fact, you've done on another thread. How is it possible that the God who does not exist is at the same time dangerous? Pardon me, but this is why this whole exercise of yours is as ambiguous and irrational as you accuse the basis for faith.

The whole drift of your purpose has little to do with seeming contradictory Bible verses. One question that anyone reading your experience about being formerly a born again is: why are you so bitter today? If abandoning your formerly held beliefs in a god makes you happy, how come you sound contrary to the spirit and drive of your new emancipation? An honest thinker who feels like God is an illusion does not need to be so virulent as you've proven yourself to be.

Even so, let me ask you: where is your own incontestable proof that God is an illusion? That should have been the first thing on the front page of this thread - but no, you've only posted verses which to you seem to be contradictory. Granted, at least, anyone with a cursory interest in the Bible might find "contradictions" as you did. For me, there is not one contradiction after several years of study. Second, how is it that your own small experience (if I may call it that in contrast to everyone else's) is sufficient to sustain your claim for every single person who has faith in God? It just simply does not measure up. For example, just because you wallowed in fear of eternal damnation does not set the precedence or basis for any other person's faith in God. I believe in God, and I have experienced for myself that there is no fear in God's love - as precisely as is stated in I John 4:18. I have never had to live in the torment or fear of eternal damnation: NEVER, not even one single time since becoming a Christian. Don't get me wrong: there have been various trials that came my way, but I never for one time lived in the fear you described. That alone tells me something is seriously lacking in your premise that God is an illusion. He may seem so to you; but that has no substance whatsoever in the experiences of those who know the fact of the reality of God's love.

I'm honestly sorry for you; perhaps you didn't get the facts right. You don't need to be vitriolic especially when you're on the wrong side of the road. 'Fear' was never the basis for faith in Jesus Christ, if that was your working thesis. If you never experienced the love of God for yourself, it does not prove that such a love is an illusion. Rather, it is real - I know this for myself. It is still available to everyone who would receive it by the one condition God offers - faith in Jesus Christ.

4gt_m. 

There are no such thing as contradiction in the bible. Holy spirit is needed to read it if u feel their are contradictions

I'm still standing on my point their are no contradictions in the bible, if u feel their are contradictions in it ask for wisdom and understanding to enlighten u. Even the verses u quoted as been contradicting are not in anyway contradicting, u need to read further down the same page or the previous verses to understand it and stop taking a verse from one book to the other as contradicting. You need to read the whole page.

In response to the contradicting verses u quoted:

Dont u know that :Joseph is , the father of Jesus, was the son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16), and the adopted or legal son of Heli (Luke 3:23), both of the family of David. He lived in Nazareth and worked as a carpenter. (hope u clear on that) all u need is a little research before saying the bible is con tradicting.

Response to your second contradiction (this one is common sense)
   
In the order u quoted the verses (1)Genesis 7:21-23  which was about noah and his family that got saved in the ark of God when God dstroyed the earth. Then u went on to talk about giants in Genesis 6:4, can't u see that this was before God destroyed the earth in Genesis 7:21-23. Then u went on to say something in the book of,  Numbers 13:33 about giants, can't u see that this was during the time of moses not the time of noah (hundreds of years after God destroyed the earth). So non of the verses u quoted are contradicting.

Inresponse to your third contradiction u stated.

like it says in James 1:13
    (Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man)
u obviously did not read the nest two verses to get the full understanding of what he tried to explain which stated (When tempted, no one should say, "God is tempting me." For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. ). God does not TEMPT BUT TEST us just like he tested abraham in Genesis 23 u stated,( God did not tept him but tested him .Their is difference between BEEN TEMPTED AND TESTED) Go and find the meaning of both words. Only the devils temp us and also we've got what is called free will which basically means we've got the choice to do what ever we want, evil or good. GOD DOES NOT TEMP BUT TEST JUST LIKE TESTING  OUR FAITH

Hope u clear on that issue of contradiction now. Well i'm reading the bible just like anyone and i do not no everything fully, my understanding is still of a young boy about the bible. But one thing i know for sure is that the bible is not contradicting. Pray foe understanding my sister

9ijaman, You sound a lot more sensible than all the rest of the crew. I will look into your suggestions and publish my findings. i doubt very much that they will differ from what I believe at the moment, but if they do, I will be the very first to admit it. Thanks for your contribution.

Umm, the man even posted the locations of the scripture.  Are you saying he's lying or that you are too lazy to look and you are the liar?

*underlined bit*Shouldn't that be Judaism?

its funny to see u try to explain the word of God using science, hm lets see,  how many hours did it take God to create eartg, want to ask your science friends? brother plz, na God we dey talk now, You go know all this and more when u get to heaven, (i pray u do), Focus your mond on Jesus, thats the main focus for now

Hmm. I sometimes wonder, when they say "the third day", do they mean it in the same way that the world was created in "seven days"?

its funny how people that this religion was forced on advocate it even more than the people that forced it on them. Same thing with classism and tribalism.

Whites forced Christianity from the south, Arabs forced it on the North, and now we have people that have lost their native religions and propel middle easter religions like it was their own. The Old Testament justifies slavery and says a child should be stoned for disobeying their father. The Old Testament has some barbaric laws that put some of the Qu'ran to shame. I think the New Testament is a great set of books and its message is revolutionary, but most fundamental Christians like to propel what the old testament says but do so selectively; they say God looks down against homosexuality but in the old testament it also says it is perfectly ok to own slaves. Or to stone people to death for certain "crimes" that do not even constitute murder. If we stuck to those old beliefs they would be still carting your black asses back to the New World to work for free in cotton and tobacco fields.

But I guess this will continue to be our religion till the next religious invasion occurs and brainwashes us to a new one. Maybe islam will be next. Or Hinduism or Mormonism.

Because that way they can sate their consciences by using that as a justification for why they refuse to believe.

would any of us be Christian if we were not colonized?

Now we are just being naive. Europeans brought Christianity to our shores and into the continent. The same reason you are Christian is the same reason we are speaking English right now. No one put a gun to my head to speak or learn English but that is the reality due to a history of colonization.



What facts? That the religion the people that subjugated you brought and told you was not barbaric and is enlightened is superior to your native religion? That is fact. Wow. Why not change your name to John and drop your last name and call yourself and European then.

But i guess we have free choice and if you choose to believe that your indigenous religion and culture is looking in the opposite direction then well, that is your decision.

The bible in really based on myth and tales (belief). We are not to believe anything. By believing you will be under the spell of leviathan. This spell affects the negro the most and completely cuts them off from the roots and ancestorage. And without knowledge of your ancestors you are nobody.

The europeans hate it when africans remember their ancestors, that is the main purpose of re-legion, to possess the negroid with the evil hynotic spell of belief, where they will worship the images (ghost) of the cau-asians.

Consider these contradictions (lies) ,  concerning Judas

 Matthew 27: 5 " And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself."

Acts 1: 18 "Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."

WHAT IS THE TRUTH? In one place Judas throws the silver away and hangs himself.

In another place he buys a field and jumps from a cliff, burst his gut. hmmm!

Who is telling the truth or are they both lying and confused.

The bible writers are confused, didn't they bother too sit down and consult with themselves before producing these story (myth and tales).

If there are no facts then there can be no true re-legion.

Be-lie-eve is ignorance.

Like I always don't believe me, check this out for yourselves.

Mr Cgift,

Christianity is the spiritual power of the cau-asian. By worshipping they images (pale albino) we are put under the spell of ignorance. As the negroid is the father and mother of every other race.

You do no see the chinese or Indians fighting and arguing amongst themselves about the europeans religions. Yet there are diong very well economically and politically.

Jesus is Zeus and Zeus is the God of the europeans. Krishna (Kristos/Christ) is the God of the Asian.

Hare kristna (Merry christmas) do you hear they sound the same.

Who are you really worshipping?


to be continued ,

cgift I truly respect how you responded to my points without resulting to tactics that most other religious zealots resort to. You got my respect. I see where you are coming from though I disagree as I see religion as a detriment to society as a whole. Organized religion from Judaism to Christianity to Islam has brought nothing but misery all through history and serves to disunite people rather than unite. But that is just my take.