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Aloy`Emeka
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You must be an irreligious person, and you found your match in women among the Somalians (remember your girlfriend among them?). Are you better than Moses who said an eye for an eye?
Still better than a blind religious person. Whats outdated about Islam? Is it the fact that Abuzola said that doers of evil should die that you are complaining about? Tell me this then; if a man is determined to kill you as he broke into your home, with a knife against your jugular, will you not kill him, if you have a gun to stop him? If you will not, I hope that you realise that you do not value your own life, how then will you value the lives of others; lets start from people who are dear to you, rather than arbitrary and remote faces. They say charity begins at home, and the greatest in your home among mankind should be you. No? We are talking about family members killing women because they refuse to live according to the tenets of Islam. The example you gave above is self defense.
You think it is not the desire of the Christians and Jews to wipe out these places, indeed all the muslims? Please give me a break.
It is the desire of Christians to bring Muslims to Christ and not wipe them out. Wiping out is genocide and is not supported by Christ.
In all the kindness of America, it is only by Allah's grace that we Muslims after 911 did not find ourselves in concentration camps like the interment camps that they had for the Japanese in the 2nd WW or what the Nazis did for the Jews, the same that Israel and their zionist agenda have created by snaking walls between neighbors in palestine, and america was doing the same in Iraq just the past 2 years!
Imagine a Christian doing the same in Saudi Arabia and what would have happened to Christians living in that nation. Remember this quote below: If a kafir person (non-believer) goes in a Muslim country, he is like a cow. Anybody can take him. That is the Islamic law."
"If a kafir is walking by and you catch him, he's booty. You can sell him in the market. Most of them are spies. And even if they don't do anything, if Muslims cannot take them and sell them in the market, you just kill them. It's OK."[23]
"Killing of the Kafir for any reason you can say it is OK, even if there is no reason for it."
"It is not called suicide, this is called martyring, because if the only way to hurt the enemies of Islam except by taking your life for that then it is allowed" [24] http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-333713.0.html
Please come out of this self delution of Christianity and Jewish combo against islam! If Islam in its "stone age" mentality have not stood firm against One World Order agenda of Papa Bush and the cronies after him, by now we will be expect microchips imbedded in the bodies of new borns, and before long, the whole of Nigeria is just a "town" at best a region under this evil regime that is going to even sell water to the people whose bloodline have been natives of the land where the water flows! So that you know;
Nigeria was worse than that under Abacha and IBB and they are/were not kufars.
a military general, a congress man and many church Televangelists in America wanted to attack Makka. We said let them go, since their god or gods is or are bigger and more ppowerful and of greater resources than Allah. I was very confident that the Lord of Kaaba will defeat them as He did of the army of Abraha and his elephant; the tank of its time when sword was the biggest weapon of choice!
Same thing Sadaam Hussein said about Americans invading Iraq. Where was his lord of Kabba? What did he say, in the above that he deserved such a summary ugly painting of his person from you? The fact that people should be killed for proven adultery and not fornication which the Jewish law that Jesus vowed to ever keep relevant demand? Do you think Islam should change to accept your type? No. Islam was complete and relevant at all time. Proof; No one woman or man whose spouse is caught in illict sexual act will not wish death or some great evil on this person right there and then! Please dont be a bleeding heart liberal. It is what cost Michael Dukakis the American Presidency against VP Bush in the days, when he said he will not retaliate agaisnt a person who killed his wife, or do his family some great harm! And the whole of palestine and these places mentioned, are not all practicing Muslims or muslims for that matter. Some of them are worse than outright disbelievers. They are hypocrites, not making salah on time, etc! Wishing someone evil is totally different from doing it. Not everybody will wish his/her cheating spouse evil in the first place. Whats there to say when you have said it all? And whats stone aged about following and obeying God and being humble to Him? Killing people is not obeying God. Unless you mean obeying the lord of Kabbah. |
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RichyBlacK (m)
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You must be an irreligious person, and you found your match in women among the Somalians (remember your girlfriend among them?). Are you better than Moses who said an eye for an eye? Is any Jews better than him, yet they discard the law that he brought to liberate them and allowing the rightful owner of properties to assume that their properties are secured and cant be taking away and deprived them of the benefit without recourse? Are you better than Jesus or is any Christian better than him as he had instructed that the laws should be respected and acted upon without mising a single jot, yet they deviants walked away from it? Please spare me your own kindness which I am certain that when push really comes to shoving, you will shove hard and with venom!
Every religion, overtime, has gone through some change or evolution, including Islam! There were practices that were deemed normal 500 years ago among Muslims, that no Muslim will admit to today. An example is slavery/slave-trade. This evolution/change will continue to take its course. Whats outdated about Islam? Is it the fact that Abuzola said that doers of evil should die that you are complaining about? Tell me this then; if a man is determined to kill you as he broke into your home, with a knife against your jugular, will you not kill him, if you have a gun to stop him? If you will not, I hope that you realise that you do not value your own life, how then will you value the lives of others; lets start from people who are dear to you, rather than arbitrary and remote faces. They say charity begins at home, and the greatest in your home among mankind should be you. No?
1. Which doers of evil? 2. Are those who refused to continue in Islam, so-called apostates, doers of evil? 3. Should they be killed, as Abuzola believes? You are the one that spent hours making strong points against Abuzola's position on this. Are you now changing sides, discarding all your arguments and supporting Abuzola because I've pointed out his folly? Can you take a position and stick to it, instead of moving from corner to corner? You think it is not the desire of the Christians and Jews to wipe out these places, indeed all the muslims? Please give me a break. In all the kindness of America, it is only by Allah's grace that we Muslims after 911 did not find ourselves in concentration camps like the interment camps that they had for the Japanese in the 2nd WW or what the Nazis did for the Jews, the same that Israel and their zionist agenda have created by snaking walls between neighbors in palestine, and america was doing the same in Iraq just the past 2 years! Please come out of this self delution of Christianity and Jewish combo against islam! If Islam in its "stone age" mentality have not stood firm against One World Order agenda of Papa Bush and the cronies after him, by now we will be expect microchips imbedded in the bodies of new borns, and before long, the whole of Nigeria is just a "town" at best a region under this evil regime that is going to even sell water to the people whose bloodline have been natives of the land where the water flows! So that you know; a military general, a congress man and many church Televangelists in America wanted to attack Makka. We said let them go, since their god or gods is or are bigger and more ppowerful and of greater resources than Allah. I was very confident that the Lord of Kaaba will defeat them as He did of the army of Abraha and his elephant; the tank of its time when sword was the biggest weapon of choice!
Saddam Hussein over-ran Kuwait in days and was scheduled to over-run Saudi-Arabia. It was the intervention of the United States that stopped Saddam's ambition. The US later established a base in Saudi-Arabia. Allowing the US to "protect" Saudi-Arabia was one of the reasons Osama gave for his qualms with the House of Saud. If every Christian had the kind of religio-static mindset that some Muslims who champion killing people at the blink of an eye, Saudi-Arabia and Kuwait, along with Iraq and Palestine would all be Western military bases. It is not adhering to a static view of Christianity that has prevented this, but applying concepts like: 1. Sovereignty 2. Rule of law (local and international) 3. Due process 4. Justice Also, 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Had the military planners in the US reasoned with stone-age mentality, a strong, quick and forceful retaliation against Saudi-Arabia would have been executed. Thankfully, the military generals were not reasoning like some foolish Muslims on this thread, who just like the idea of killing people. What did he say, in the above that he deserved such a summary ugly painting of his person from you? The fact that people should be killed for proven adultery and not fornication which the Jewish law that Jesus vowed to ever keep relevant demand? Do you think Islam should change to accept your type? No. Islam was complete and relevant at all time. Proof; No one woman or man whose spouse is caught in illict sexual act will not wish death or some great evil on this person right there and then! Please dont be a bleeding heart liberal. It is what cost Michael Dukakis the American Presidency against VP Bush in the days, when he said he will not retaliate agaisnt a person who killed his wife, or do his family some great harm! And the whole of palestine and these places mentioned, are not all practicing Muslims or muslims for that matter. Some of them are worse than outright disbelievers. They are hypocrites, not making salah on time, etc!
Your knowledge of the teachings of Christ is faulty. Since you brought up His teachings, are you aware of the adulteress woman that was about to be stoned? Jesus asked "Whoever is without sin should cast the first stone". They all looked at each other, threw down their stones and walked away. Then Jesus told the adulteress to go and sin no more. A huge part of the teachings of Christ is forgiveness, understanding and care for the lowly and compassion. Using death as a tool of evangelism was never path of His teachings. Today, some Muslims champion the out-dated legal system called Sharia, however, the evidence on its application only confirms that it is used to target the poor, the lowly and immigrants/foreigners. Recall Amina Lawal who was supposed to be stoned to death under Sharia in Northern Nigeria because of adultery. Of course the Sharia court that passed the death sentence on the poor woman was filled with the likes of Abuzola and sentencing her to death was the "islamic" thing to do. It took the outcry of sane individuals, Muslims and non-Muslims, to fight that very barbaric sentence and overturn it. Yes barbaric, or do you think such a sentence under your much-admired Sharia law was not barbaric? Whats there to say when you have said it all? And whats stone aged about following and obeying God and being humble to Him?
Following and obeying God and being humble to Him is fine. The problem is that there are many interpretations of the right way to follow and obey God. You, olabowale and your friend Abuzola do not agree on every issue regarding the way to follow and obey God, do you? Likewise, I don't agree with some of my fellow Christians on every issue regarding following and obeying God. The question is, how do we follow and obey God without being extremists? Is there room for extremists in today's world? Abuzoloa's remarks on this forum are very inflammatory, and just like in the wider world where extremist views by Muslims are hardly ever challenged by other Muslims, many sane Muslims on this forum just keep quiet while miscreants like Abuzola make Islam look like what many Western media houses portray it as. At least you have stood up against some of the antics of the extremist on your camp, e.g. on this thread http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-319484.32.html#msg4536805 I commend you. However, that is not enough! More sane Muslims need to stop keeping quiet and should let the likes of Abuzola know that extremism only breeds extremism! |
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RichyBlacK (m)
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@RichyBlack,
I personally kinda feel disappointed in you after reading that your reply above. Wallahi, i.e. I swear with my Creator Allah, you are (or were?) on of the NL members I respect very much. I read your writings. . .and I think you might know me as I frequented your child-board in recent time. Please take it easy. Thanks
@mushin, Don't feel kinda disappointed, I'm doing what my fellow Muslims will not do - openly and pointedly tell a fellow Muslim that he is wrong and his positions are foolish and extremist! Abuzola's views are akin to those of the Taliban - fundamentalist crap that belongs to the stone-age, however, many of the Muslims on this forum, some living peacefully in Europe or the US, will not stand up and tell the likes of Abuzola to shut up! This kind of mentality is what has allowed extremist groups like the Taliban, al-Shabab and al-Qaeda to flourish. |
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Abuzola (m)
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Allahu akbar. Wamallahu bi ghafilin amma tahmalun
Am proud to declare to you mr richy that islam doesn't changes like christianity, i follow my islam directly with the stone age teaching Hadith and Quran. You can go to hell if it is hurting you.
As for slavery, see this hadith, Narrated Abu hurairah, The Holy Prophet said,'whoever frees a slave who believes , God will free his every limb from the fire of hell even his private part' hadith muslim 891
can you see how gullible you are
i and olabowale can dispute in matters of islam because we are bani tin, there must be arguement to achieve goal, Abubakar and umar argued anxiously, Aisha and Ali argued anxiously, mu'awiya and Ali argued anxiously, uthman and khawarij argued anxiously, who are we not to argue. The above individuals argued pertaining some islamic rite which even led to bloodshed in some cases, if this people disputed about some matters in islam who am i not to argue , we are both right the accused and the accuser because we have our proofs.
Again, i repeat i am proudly a muslim, am not ashame of openly discuss matter of my religion
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Aloy`Emeka
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Again, i repeat i am proudly a muslim, am not ashame of openly discuss matter of my religion
Don't you know you can be ignorantly proud? |
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Abuzola (m)
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Hahahaha , if you say so, i wanted to quote the hadith that match my statement that killing is prohibited except on Apostate, murderer and adulterer, but i realize you guys weren't muslim so is a waste of gold
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uplawal (f)
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@Aloy Steel,we are very proud to be MUSLIMS,Shogbo?
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muhsin (m)
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@mushin,
Don't feel kinda disappointed, I'm doing what my fellow Muslims will not do - openly and pointedly tell a fellow Muslim that he is wrong and his positions are foolish and extremist!
Abuzola's views are akin to those of the Taliban - fundamentalist crap that belongs to the stone-age, however, many of the Muslims on this forum, some living peacefully in Europe or the US, will not stand up and tell the likes of Abuzola to shut up!
This kind of mentality is what has allowed extremist groups like the Taliban, al-Shabab and al-Qaeda to flourish.
@RichyBlack, Let me admit it: fundamentalism/fanaticism/extremism/etc is greatly denounced by many Muslim scholars. But its really embarrassing seeing some Muslim brothers rejoice at the action of these people. And don't just misconstrue my words, for I partly support a few of their actions as they are what I use to call "a by-product" of their being mercilessly and ceaselessly oppressed, e.g. Hamas resistance. The Prophet, may Allah exalt his mention, was reported saying in an authentic hadeeth: "Destroyed are those who are extreme (in religion)". Another hadeeth: The Prophet said, "Facilitate things to people (concerning religious matters), and do not make it hard for them and give them good tidings and do not make them run away (from Islam)." Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 3 :: Hadith 69 You see. Yet some people don't heed to these and many more prophetic saying and teaching. For example, I today heard on the news (BBC Network Africa), that one Islamic group in Somalia are warning people to stop receiving any medical treatment in any foreign soponsored hospital, including even one named Madina Hospital, where the leaflets were showered. And many more incidents. Am afraid we are going off-topic discussing this issue. |
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muhsin (m)
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Hi there!
I "enjoyed" reading all the crap written by Aloy.Emeka, GEW and Ohsisi. Those words deserve nothing but to rightly be consigned into trash for they are horrible jargons. LOL Grin
Lets reason it along; if Honor Killing is truly Islamic why is there NO Qur'anic verse or Prophetic tradition that in whatsoever sensible way support it? That hadeeth you brought, Aloy.Emeka, is phenomenally talking about something else. . .but you shamelessly enough fail to see that plain truth. Yet you are proudly under a frayed facade attributing it to Honor Killing. How unfair of you?
I challenge you to bring fourth any prove supporting your allegation. . .if you fail, then you are just being saying horse shit (am sorry to use the expression). Waiting. . .
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olabowale (m)
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@Aloy.Emeka: « #32 on: Yesterday at 07:53:22 PM » Still better than a blind religious person. Use this same thing to qualify Christianity, especially the 3 gods making one God bit! How can three persons be one person? We are talking about family members killing women because they refuse to live according to the tenets of Islam. The example you gave above is self defense. What family members and even states do to their weak citizens or members if against Islam, is not Islamic, even if the King of Saudi Arabia does it! What is Islamic is clear to us the Muslims, and the rest is garbage! Islam was complete in the time of Muhammad and honor hilling is not one of them, just like your made up thighing and others! So there is still some possibilities of killing, even though you call it self defense, you are not a bleeding hear liberal, afterall, unlike RickyBlack, who cant hurt a fly but can sleep with all kind of women he is not married to. He has a girlfriend so thats my proof! You think it is not the desire of the Christians and Jews to wipe out these places, indeed all the muslims? Please give me a break.
It is the desire of Christians to bring Muslims to Christ and not wipe them out. Wiping out is genocide and is not supported by Christ. Christi could not bring himself to Christ the only reason he remained in the religion of his forefathers! You will try with the muslims in vain, and you did not approach the Jews who are the holders of your salvations, uh? If they hold your salvation and they are not in your religion, dont you see that salvation is far away from you and you want the muslims to miss road like you, Emeka? Thanks a lot for the evil wishes, but no deal! Imagine a Christian doing the same in Saudi Arabia and what would have happened to Christians living in that nation. Remember this quote below: America is not a Christian country. And I cant second guess what the Saudi people will do, or their government. In many instances, I have read that they beheaded even muslims, so the case of the christians will not be worse! As far as I now they will not hurt any americans, britons or europeans, because of the hypocricy of the house of saud. You dont know that, do you Emeka? You people always bring about Saudi Arabia as if it is an ideal Muslim country. Idea city madina or few others; makka and co, but Saudi Arabia is not! There is no ideal islamic country on earth. I will move to it, if thee is any! Nigeria was worse than that under Abacha and IBB and they are/were not kufars. Is there a period in Nigeria that is darker than the civil war between Christian Gowon and Christian Ojukwu? Through it all Gowon, Gowon married igbo Christian Victoria! Talk about the highest form of evil; husband killing the people of wife. wife marrying a people calling her people bad name! Did Ababcha and or babangida do either or did tey imbed microchips on babies yet, or what exactly they did that is worse than the concept of One World Order of Papa Bush? Same thing Sadaam Hussein said about Americans invading Iraq. Where was his lord of Kabba? And when Germany killed the Jews where was their Yahweh? And when England and Amerca and the allies killed Germany where was their Jehovah? Allah says that if He does not set a people to check another, the evildoers will have a reign over the erath! Today america is a relatively good country and christianity has nothing to do with it. I know; I live in it. Have you heard the term in God we trust, and the rest is cash? Is that a statement of true believers; Jews and gentiles of america say it! And then there is separation of Church and state! is that a state build or governed by church? hardly, man. You can argue better. Wishing someone evil is totally different from doing it. Not everybody will wish his/her cheating spouse evil in the first place. It is a prelude to doing it, man. In the same sweeping anger you do it. Look, Awolowo is dead long time and Osisi is still after the man. Just imagine if they let her have him while alive? She will slaughter her Christian brother Awolowo for the igbo people and let them wax better and be free of the evil man! You think I was born yestreday? This is the way human roll, man! Except people with good belief sstem and Christianity is not it, because between 3 gods there bound to be discrepancy and havent you heard 2 masters can not captain a ship, and in your case you are talking about 3 masters as skippers? Killing people is not obeying God. Unless you mean obeying the lord of Kabbah. And there is no place I have written lord for my LORD. Lord of Kaaba is Lord of London and Lord of Arochukwu. Whats the difference? No difference. Lord of creation, is the same Lord of Kaaba. Kaaba is my choice being the first House of worship on earth and Bait Manur is directly coinciding with it in the seventh heaven. Aloy.emeka, I know what am doing, though it may be way over your head. And all the killings under Moses and the Killing of Goliat by Little man David, were not for God? Who were they for? I hope you will not say its for personal pride or for satan? |
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olabowale (m)
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@RickyBlack:« #33 on: Yesterday at 10:14:23 PM » Every religion, overtime, has gone through some change or evolution, including Islam! There were practices that were deemed normal 500 years ago among Muslims, that no Muslim will admit to today. An example is slavery/slave-trade.
This evolution/change will continue to take its course. Show me the evolution of Islam against any verse of the Quran! Otherwise its just a conversation. 1. Which doers of evil?
2. Are those who refused to continue in Islam, so-called apostates, doers of evil?
3. Should they be killed, as Abuzola believes? Doers of evil are those who are proven to have been involved in Adultery, not the unmarried fornicators, which the Mosaic laws kill. Murderers of innocent lives and even when they do not allow the rule of law to prevail are doers of evil. Apostates who are up in arms against you, wishing to kill you and deters you to worship your Lord are doers of evil! Do they deserve to be killed? All of them, when proven as above, deserve to die, or they will let evil doings become the norm on the earth or they kill you for your not joing their ranks! Look, open sexual orgies used to be unacceptable, but now it is the norm in many societies; why? And at your age, a successful University professor is only girlfriending when you should be wife(ing)! You are the one that spent hours making strong points against Abuzola's position on this. Are you now changing sides, discarding all your arguments and supporting Abuzola because I've pointed out his folly? Can you take a position and stick to it, instead of moving from corner to corner? My position is well defined. I o not have a position except that I can trace it to Muhammad (AS). The Quran says the apostates who "pick up arms against you" needs to be killed, because in war, it is kill or be killed! If this position is not satisfactory to you, ask the americans, or the afghanis or those who have experienced wars! The enemy who picks up arems against you have one simple goal, snurf the life out of you! And if you have a chance to preserve your life, and you allow him to kill you, its yor fault and you deserve hell fire! Saddam Hussein over-ran Kuwait in days and was scheduled to over-run Saudi-Arabia. It was the intervention of the United States that stopped Saddam's ambition. The US later established a base in Saudi-Arabia. Allowing the US to "protect" Saudi-Arabia was one of the reasons Osama gave for his qualms with the House of Saud. Sadaam (ra) was 1990. Kobar base was in the time of Carter and Reagan! That was long time before, and before this they derailed the Persian of iran's democratically elected government and installed Shah in the office! Talk about championing democracy or is this selective democracy which to me is hypocracy? I dont why America have not invaded Egypt if there is honesty in her brokering, or its whatever by friend does its okay as long as it favors me and when it does not, he is my enemy and i got to get rid of him regardless of his goodness which I dont like? If every Christian had the kind of religio-static mindset that some Muslims who champion killing people at the blink of an eye, Saudi-Arabia and Kuwait, along with Iraq and Palestine would all be Western military bases. Before september 11 2001, there were bases in all of these places, except Iraq! Today you have the Iraqi base! Let me tell you something; if the arabs are not hypocrites, there is no way the Kufar; Christians and jews and others could have infiltrated the muslim communities! Remember Lawrence of Arabia; this is the proofof the arab hypocracy? It is not adhering to a static view of Christianity that has prevented this, but applying concepts like:
1. Sovereignty
2. Rule of law (local and international)
3. Due process
4. Justice I have news for you; America is not a Christian country, though the majority will check Christianity, though its nothing they belief in! The freaks always want something to hide in, as long as it is popular and thats why they say they are Christians! Long time before America thought about the above listed concepts, they were practised by Madinan s of Muhammad (AS), Jews and Christians and Muslims members, all of them together! That was a good city state. Wished it could be replicated all over the world. Now this is my bring you to Islam the only way, unlike what you claim for Jesus, but the last prophet is the holder of that claim! Also, 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Had the military planners in the US reasoned with stone-age mentality, a strong, quick and forceful retaliation against Saudi-Arabia would have been executed. Thankfully, the military generals were not reasoning like some foolish Muslims on this thread, who just like the idea of killing people. Shouldn't they have gone to Saudi, instead of worse than stone age mentality that madethem under George Bush go to Afghanistan and then Iraq? You said that you are a University Lecturer, please bring matriculated thinking to the table! What role did Afghanistan play, except that it is a weak and somewhat remote out post that the US and the coallision of the willing can do target practice at? And no people Killed in Afghanistan and or Iraq? Are you serious? |
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olabowale (m)
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Your knowledge of the teachings of Christ is faulty. Since you brought up His teachings, are you aware of the adulteress woman that was about to be stoned? Jesus asked "Whoever is without sin should cast the first stone". If Jesus said this and he was sinless, according to the Bible and the claims that he is God, dont you think that when he said "whoever have no sin should throw, ", he should at least throw a gesture stone, since he was sinless, a God? If he did not do that then one should wonder if he was God or sinless, because his words were against his own commandments! They all looked at each other, threw down their stones and walked away. Then Jesus told the adulteress to go and sin no more. Sound nice, and was he an adultress because the Jews took the same condition to Muhammad (AS) in Madina, where he was a leader with strength, unlike Jesus of the Bible who had no strength; look at his supporters and how easily the enemies were able to get him. The Jews did not accept Jesus weak rulings on this adultery thing, their reason for carrying it to Muhammad (AS). A huge part of the teachings of Christ is forgiveness, understanding and care for the lowly and compassion. Using death as a tool of evangelism was never path of His teachings. You will be kidding me if you say that Jesus truly forgave, without considering his unforgiving position with the thief on the cross, or the continued unforgiving position with Judas, or the dead figtree! Muhammad (AS) on the other hand, in full strength forgave the woman who poisoned him. Now thats true forgiveness and many verses in the Quran speak about forgiveness, mercy, etc. Today, some Muslims champion the out-dated legal system called Sharia, however, the evidence on its application only confirms that it is used to target the poor, the lowly and immigrants/foreigners. There is nothing outdated about Sharia because you have not changed from a man with one head on two shoulders to 2 or more heads on more than two shoulders! The applications, which I agree with you on, have been warned against by the Prophet (as) in an ahadith, and this wrong applications to oppress the masses, the poor, shows what I have been saying; the hypocrites now occupy the position of authority among the muslims! Recall Amina Lawal who was supposed to be stoned to death under Sharia in Northern Nigeria because of adultery. Of course the Sharia court that passed the death sentence on the poor woman was filled with the likes of Abuzola and sentencing her to death was the "islamic" thing to do. It took the outcry of sane individuals, Muslims and non-Muslims, to fight that very barbaric sentence and overturn it. Yes barbaric, or do you think such a sentence under your much-admired Sharia law was not barbaric? It takes 2 to tango. A woman who is pregnant today must have some male organ entering her private part, or the semen from a clinic. I am not a muslim scholar so i can not comment on the clinic part of pregnancy. But the male/female thing is clear to me; the male that slept with a woman either performed fornication or adultery or a legal conjugal relationship. If its legal, then the woman is not charged for anything illegal, too. When she is charged for either fornication or adultery, the man who slept with her is in the same thing, too. And I argued in my own way against just picking Amina and not the man who slept with her. Following and obeying God and being humble to Him is fine. The problem is that there are many interpretations of the right way to follow and obey God. You, olabowale and your friend Abuzola do not agree on every issue regarding the way to follow and obey God, do you? Likewise, I don't agree with some of my fellow Christians on every issue regarding following and obeying God. Whie Abuzola is my friend, why are the fellow Christians not your friends or a single friend? The point is that Allah's messenger is the ideal Muslim. Who is the ideal Christian? The question is, how do we follow and obey God without being extremists? Is there room for extremists in today's world? Abuzoloa's remarks on this forum are very inflammatory, and just like in the wider world where extremist views by Muslims are hardly ever challenged by other Muslims, many sane Muslims on this forum just keep quiet while miscreants like Abuzola make Islam look like what many Western media houses portray it as. At least you have stood up against some of the antics of the extremist on your camp, e.g. on this thread http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-319484.32.html#msg4536805 I commend you. However, that is not enough! More sane Muslims need to stop keeping quiet and should let the likes of Abuzola know that extremism only breeds extremism! The portraying of Islam in the media does not mean diiddley to me. Truth is always one. I have been stopped by just being a black man in white neighborhood before and its no surprise that a muslim is stopped because the hoders of media and authority puppet masters are not muslims, but enemies of islam! Should any of these trial period make me abandone the truth? No. |
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Aloy`Emeka
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Olabowale, I don't expect you to understand the triune God so, why argue it?
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olabowale (m)
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Aloy.Emeka, you are a smart man: How many fingers do you have in one hand? If its more than 5, it becomes a deficiency, and if its less than 5, somebody knows something was wrong, the reason the prevailing condition occurs. Incidentally, the efficiency of the hand will not be uptimum if either of the two conditions occur! This is the case with God being more than One Personality, because gods normally will not agree; 2 masters can skipper a ship, and if there is no God, like the Atheist alleges, then people know that something is amiss in their thought process!
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RichyBlacK (m)
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@olabowale,
I've read your response.
I'm not interested in getting into religious arguments quoting verses from the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. Period. Every individual should choose whatever they want to believe in. The problem with some Muslims is that they tend to really like the idea of killing someone who does not share in their belief. Is it by force?
1. Why would any Muslim want to kill any ex-Muslim who denounces Islam for a different religion?
2. Why would a Muslim man feel it is "the islamic thing to do" to kill his daughters because they have boyfriends?
3. Why would a woman be stoned to death because of adultery, when the man is set free for "lack of evidence"?
4. Why would a girl be murdered because she refused to marry a man chosen by her father?
These barbaric ways of life must not be tolerated!
Any religion that advocates the murder of an individual, not because the individual was implicated in a homicide, but because the individual was deemed to have gone against the teachings or tenets of such religion, infringes on the fundamental human rights of that individual - the right to life, and hence must categorized as a barbaric religion. And members of such religion who believe they have some divine right to take the life of others must be stopped at all cost!
Groups like the Taliban in Afghanistan, al-Shabab in Somalia, al-Qaeda worldwide, the Sudanese government-sponsored militia in Darfur, and the endless horde of marauding murderers in Northern Nigeria, who believe some god has given them the right over the life of others must be annihilated at any cost!
As long as their retrogressive, foolish and arrogant stupidity disguised as a belief systems lurks within their cranium, and remains inside their cranium, their is no problem. The world must keep a watchful eye on bloodthirsty goons within the Muslim community who still hold on to stone-age belief systems and neutralize them whenever they allow the idiocy in their heads to harm any other individual who does not share such backward rubbish!
Let us see how things play out.
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uplawal (f)
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@Alhaji Olabowale you are blessed,may Allah enrich you till Old age,i just read your piece up there and its so good and very challenging and educative,thanks alot sir,Ma Salam.
The ignorant man arguying with you think xtians are cool people,am sure they av tried so hard to eliminate ISLAM but ALLAH has been subdueing them,or does he think they av not tried to destroy MAKKAH and all holy sites?of course,they might av tried hard but ALLAH in his infinite mercies shall always uphold Muslims,
@Aloy Emeka and Richyblack,ISLAM is never outdated,it has come to stay for ever,and all Adulterers shall continue to be stone to death insha Allah(amen)
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Aloy`Emeka
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@Aloy Emeka and Richyblack,ISLAM is never outdated,it has come to stay for ever,and all Adulterers shall continue to be stone to death insha Allah(amen)
We have a serious problem in this world. Since when did muslims start using "amen"? |
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uplawal (f)
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okay ameen(amin)=amen in english ignorant dude
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Aloy`Emeka
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okay ameen(amin)=amen in english ignorant dude
Amen is not english.  When will Muslims start shouting alleluia?  |
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chic2pimp (m)
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@Aloy Emeka and Richyblack,ISLAM is never outdated,it has come to stay for ever,and all Adulterers shall continue to be stone to death insha Allah(amen)
This statement clearly shows Islam is not only outdated but also barbaric |
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Abuzola (m)
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Aloy must u display unintelligency,who told you amen is not amin in English. Cross worshipper ve a serious problem, i don't blame them because even their god was confused when dying see mathew 27:46
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muhsin (m)
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@RichyBlack, I'm not interested in getting into religious arguments quoting verses from the Qu'ran or the Holy Bible. You believe what you believe and I believe what I believe. Period. Every individual should choose whatever they want to believe in. The problem with some Muslims is that they tend to really like the idea of killing someone who does not share in their belief. Is it by force?
Threefold case: 1- You should have interest in such a discussion, else quit coming boards like this very one. And it's good as per as I can think. Why? There is only one true religion; Islam, Judaism or Christianity. 2- Although that I perceive is your opinion, but think of the word PREACHING/EVANGILISATION/PROPAGATION of religion. All these words and more others are use to mean converting one faith from one religion to another. 3- These Muslim are not doing a terribly wrong thing, for there is no compulsion, coercion or the likes in Islam. Even the prophet Muhammad lived with non-Muslims. 1. Why would any Muslim want to kill any ex-Muslim who denounces Islam for a different religion? Correction: not any Muslim. The rule is only aptly executed by the leader/government. Beside, what is it contain in other Scriptures regarding an apostasy? Please help me out. . .you will certainly see the same thing. Religion is owned by one and only one God. 2. Why would a Muslim man feel it is "the islamic thing to do" to kill his daughters because they have boyfriends?
This is entirely nothing Islamic. And if you think it's I'll like you to show me any Qur'anic verse or prophetic tradition (hadeeth) that says this. Thanks 3. Why would a woman be stoned to death because of adultery, when the man is set free for "lack of evidence"? So does the rule revealed by the God says. Why wouldn't we adhere to it? And note, its not just that lack of evidence. The matter is wider than that. If you are interested in that discussion, opening a fresh thread will help it out. 4. Why would a girl be murdered because she refused to marry a man chosen by her father? Phenomenally nothing Islamic. Just heard it from you and for the first time in my life time. Expatiate, backing up your claim with any, I mean any Islamic saying on that. These barbaric ways of life must not be tolerated! No any sane human could or should support or tolerate barbarism. Islam if far from barbarism. Some of its followers are shamelessly enough barbaric, but in that scenario no religion is excluded. Any religion that advocates the murder of an individual, not because the individual was implicated in a homicide, but because the individual was deemed to have gone against the teachings or tenets of such religion, infringes on the fundamental human rights of that individual - the right to life, and hence must categorized as a barbaric religion. And members of such religion who believe they have some divine right to take the life of others must be stopped at all cost! Only homicide? Are you being objective, Richy? You need to really scrutinize things more and widen your understanding. Killing is not Islamic; its only subjectively and fairly attributed to it. Groups like the Taliban in Afghanistan, al-Shabab in Somalia, al-Qaeda worldwide, the Sudanese government-sponsored militia in Darfur, and the endless horde of marauding murderers in Northern Nigeria, who believe some god has given them the right over the life of others must be annihilated at any cost! I kinda agree with you here. But you get to re-think on that too: haven't "some" of these groups any vindication for their actions and inactions? As long as their retrogressive, foolish and arrogant stupidity disguised as a belief systems lurks within their cranium, and remains inside their cranium, their is no problem. The world must keep a watchful eye on bloodthirsty goons within the Muslim community who still hold on to stone-age belief systems and neutralize them whenever they allow the idiocy in their heads to harm any other individual who does not share such backward rubbish! Thank God not all, but within. That tells not all birds are feathered in another words. May Allah, the Exalted, guide us all to the right and straight path, ameen. |
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RichyBlacK (m)
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@RichyBlack,
Threefold case:
1- You should have interest in such a discussion, else quit coming boards like this very one. And it's good as per as I can think. Why? There is only one true religion; Islam, Judaism or Christianity.
You can find a quote in any religious book - Torah, Holy Bible, Qu'ran, etc., to support any position you want. This is the reason that sane Muslims will disagree with the bloodthirsty lot like al-Qaeda, even though both groups read the same Qu'ran. Shia and Sunni read the same Qu'ran but disagree on several issues and WILL QUOTE appropriate parts of the Qu'ran, the Hadith or other important books in Islam to support their diametrically opposite views. So, what's the point? 2- Although that I perceive is your opinion, but think of the word PREACHING/EVANGILISATION/PROPAGATION of religion. All these words and more others are use to mean converting one faith from one religion to another.
3- These Muslim are not doing a terribly wrong thing, for there is no compulsion, coercion or the likes in Islam. Even the prophet Muhammad lived with non-Muslims.
If there is "no compulsion, coercion or the likes in Islam", why do you justify most Muslims believe it is the "islamic" thing to do to kill Rifqa Bary ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-319473.0.html) who denounced Islam and converted to Christianity? If there was no compulsion, people like Rifqa Bary should face NO THREAT from ANY MUSLIM! Is it by force? Correction: not any Muslim. The rule is only aptly executed by the leader/government.
Beside, what is it contain in other Scriptures regarding an apostasy? Please help me out. . .you will certainly see the same thing. Religion is owned by one and only one God.
In Christianity, there is no teaching that gives the green light to kill or harm those who leave the faith. True, in pre-Renaissance Europe, the Church classified some people who left the faith as heretics and burnt them at the stake, however, the Church does not hold that view anymore and such practices are totally extinct in Christendom. This was possible as result of the evolution of practices. Though the holy books remain static in their written words, the interpretation of those words, which guides the practice, is always going through an evolutionary process. Such changes in practice affect all religions. In 14th century Islam, there was nothing wrong in a Muslim living in Yemen to go to the nearest slave market and purchase a black slave! Is that possible in 21st century Islam? Evolution cannot be stopped! This is entirely nothing Islamic. And if you think it's I'll like you to show me any Qur'anic verse or prophetic tradition (hadeeth) that says this. Thanks
So does the rule revealed by the God says. Why wouldn't we adhere to it? And note, its not just that lack of evidence. The matter is wider than that. If you are interested in that discussion, opening a fresh thread will help it out.
Phenomenally nothing Islamic. Just heard it from you and for the first time in my life time. Expatiate, backing up your claim with any, I mean any Islamic saying on that.
No any sane human could or should support or tolerate barbarism.
Islam if far from barbarism. Some of its followers are shamelessly enough barbaric, but in that scenario no religion is excluded.
Well, this brings up the issue of practice versus text. The text of the Qu'ran is filled with so much information that even opposing groups within Islam can firmly justify their opposition positions by referring to verses in the Qu'ran that support their respective views. Isn't that correct? So, let's leave the text alone. The Qu'ran is what it is. The more interesting issue is the practice. This is what non-Muslims see and this is what shapes their view of Islam. Is there a way to determine if a practice is "islamic" or 'unislamic"? Only homicide? Are you being objective, Richy?
Applying the retributive justice in most religions and the standard practice in Islam, someone who takes the life of another stands to lose his/her life. Beyond that, why else will any religion advocate killing any person? For drinking beer? This bloodthirstiness is nauseating! Please note the difference between a religion and a state. You need to really scrutinize things more and widen your understanding.
You need to stop thinking too much about taking the life of another person. What's the obsession with killing? Killing is not Islamic; its only subjectively and fairly attributed to it.
Contradicting your earlier post! Then why do so many Muslims, even on this forum (Abuzola, olabowale and yourself) have a cavalier attitude towards killing. You seemed shock that I only excused it for murder, as if there is a long list of "sins" that should make one lose his/her life, and I just chose one from that huge list. If your statement is true, then killing should be applied rarely. In Common Law, killing does not automatically apply for all homicides. It is reserved for only the most severe and aggravating cases. However, in Sharia, as practiced by barbaric Saudi Arabia, one can get killed changing their religion from Islam to Christianity. In Christianity, killing is a sin. Even if you kill someone in self defense, you'll need special prayers. I kinda agree with you here. But you get to re-think on that too: haven't "some" of these groups any vindication for their actions and inactions?
Like what? Thank God not all, but within. That tells not all birds are feathered in another words.
May Allah, the Exalted, guide us all to the right and straight path, ameen.
May those who believe it's their right to take the life of others be annihilated. Amen. |
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Abuzola (m)
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Those wio beleve in taking life of others be Annihilated ? What a psycho
it is not the right of any muslim to take the life of anybody except by the approval of a leader, e.g declaration of fatwa, this is when i have the right.
I have christian convert yet i did not send them to their grave because there is no fatwa on them, besides 9ja isn't an islamic state. your hypocrisy is beyond legendary
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Abuzola (m)
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We have adulterers in our midst , why didn't we stone them to death ?
God ve mercy on u
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Aloy`Emeka
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Aloy must u display unintelligency,who told you amen is not amin in English. Cross worshipper ve a serious problem, i don't blame them because even their god was confused when dying see mathew 27:46
It's lack of intelligence and not unintelligency; That is not english. |
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Abuzola (m)
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I said u displayed unintelligency and not you displayed lack of unintelligency. Check your dico and correct urself, many of u on NL lack the knowledge of basic english
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uplawal (f)
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Adulterers are plenty on nairaland,so they dnt want to get stone to death
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RichyBlacK (m)
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Those wio beleve in taking life of others be Annihilated ? What a psycho
it is not the right of any muslim to take the life of anybody except by the approval of a leader, e.g declaration of fatwa, this is when i have the right.
I have christian convert yet i did not send them to their grave because there is no fatwa on them, besides 9ja isn't an islamic state. your hypocrisy is beyond legendary
What a zombie beast? How many people have you killed from this list of fatwas? Bloodthirsty ghoul! What are you waiting for? Yes Nigeria is not a Muslim country, however, Mamuda Aliyu Shinkafi, then deputy governor of Zamfara State, issued a fatwa against Isioma Daniel. Please tell us what steps you have taken to kill Isioma Daniel. So, if some deranged unfortunate cleric had declared a fatwa on your Christian convert acquaintance, you would have diligently gone to look for a machete, sharpen it well, look for the person and chop of his/her head? I used to think zombies like you were rare, secluded to some parts of the world and found on membership lists of lunatic organizations like the Taliban, however, I now know that your type ain't that rare! Great knowledge! |
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RichyBlacK (m)
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Adulterers are plenty on nairaland,so they dnt want to get stone to death
I'm 100% sure you know at least one adulterer. How many have you made any effort to kill?What is with this killing thing that gets some of you Muslims riled up? Do you think Muslims have any special monopoly to killing? Go read up some history; the art of killing, even large scale killing, was perfected long before Islam came into existence about 1400 years ago. Don't deceive yourself into thinking that if Muslims and non-Muslims go on a no-holds-barred killing spree that Muslims would have any chance of survival on this planet. Instead of talking about tolerance, understanding, civility, due process, justice, proportional punishment for crimes, rehabilitation, diversity, etc., some of you are busy talking about killing other people. Who appointed you judge over another person's life? We'll continue to watch how this obsession with death plays out. |
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