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tpia.
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Please educate me, i am always eager to learn something new.
the ancient Romans and Greeks knew of black Africans. Aesop's fables, black gladiators, black Roman soldiers,etc. After the fall of the Roman empire, Africa gradually turned into the "dark" unknown continent. |
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wirinet
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Please re-read the sentence again, especially the parts bolded by you. The people living on the African coast had never had contact with Europeans, Arabs and Asians. The desert and the forest coupled with the Atlantic ocean was a formidable barrier. It was the blacks of East African nations like Ethiopia that had been in contact with the outside world since biblical times.
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tpia.
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Please re-read the sentence again, especially the parts bolded by you. The people living on the African coast had never had contact with Europeans, Arabs and Asians. The desert and the forest coupled with the Atlantic ocean was a formidable barrier. It was the blacks of East African nations like Ethiopia that had been in contact with the outside world since biblical times.
not trying to derail the thread but do you mean the west African coast. and many of the peoples living there migrated from other places where they'd probably had contact with the outside world. examples: Mali empire, 1200-1600 AD  Mansa Musa depicted holding a gold nugget from a 1375 map of Africa and Europe:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_EmpireGhana empire, 790-1240 AD:  The Cordoban scholar al-Bakri collected stories from a number of travelers to the region, and gave a detailed description of the kingdom in 1067. At that time it was alleged by contemporary writers that the Ghana could field an army of some 200,000 soldiers and cavalry.
The Empire became known in Europe and Arabia as the Ghana Empire by the title of its emperor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghana_Empire |
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Deep Sight (m)
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TPIA/ WIRINET -
In the name of God, please leave it off, i dont want the thread derailed: there are serious questions that have been put to Noetic, let him come and answer them.
Wirinet, if you must respond to her, open a thread on that subject please.
Thanks.
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noetic15 (m)
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@Noetic
My answer can be found in James 1:27 which says : Pure and undefiled religion [worship] in the sight of God is to take care of widows and orphans in their affliction and to keep your self from being corrupted by the world.
Now let's have your answer and stop answering questions with questions.
1. I am surprised u ignored all my posers. whats stopping u from opening a new thread to educate me on christianity? . . . . . I hate thinking I am uninformed. . .can u help me? Brother, I think u are the one with a dogma here, no offence intended. U see Jesus as a good man and not as a saviour and u expect that anyone who is good without readily acknowledging Jesus as a saviour will inherit eternity. . . . .thats NOT what Jesus taught. 2. your answer above is NOT an answer. I expected an analyses from u. . . . . but if thats all u have to offer then I will offer u something similar. . . have u read Luke 10:1-12 and put particular emphasis on the last three verses, . . . .thats also my answer to your poser. Jesus has stated what awaits those who reject the gospel, regardless of their good works. 3. You accuse me of being religious yet James 1:27 which u quoted speaks of an acceptable religion. . . , .not worship. u accuse me of being dogmatic. . . , but have not proffered how wrong my dogmas are. the ONLY way to defeat or eradicate a dogma is to bring in knowledge. |
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noetic15 (m)
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Noetic -
My deepest instinct tells me that in your heart of hearts, you already see the point, and you know very well the truth regarding this matter.
I verily fear that your dogma (and also your pride) may not permit you to accede.
Thus, rather than engage you in long-spiralled desertations, i will now change tactics.
I shall, for the next few posts, only give you little morsels for thought. . . FROM YOUR OWN BIBLE.
The first morsel has already been given in the quote by KunleOshob above -
Although its pretty obvious what the text above indicates, you felt so done-in by it that you chose to evade explaining it. Yes, i know you will try, but believe me, your explanation would not resonate within your own soul.
1. The above seems to be the ranting of a little boy denied some sweets. We were never debating. . . . .this is supposed to be an interview. You have NOT at any time told me why and where u DISAGREE with my posts. . .yet u ascribe my posts to dogma, pride and a subject of your own instincts. I find this intriguing. . . . .no pun intended. 2. I have answered kunleOshob by refering him to Jesus sending out the 72 disciples in the book of Luke. Cos he has simply refused to offer any analyses. I honestly dont understand. Do u disagree with my understanding of the way to heaven? . . . , can u tell me why? P:S I am not evading any of your questions. . . . I just want to have an understanding of your position. But here's the second morsel for thought:
Acts 10:34 - 35: "Of a truth i perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. . ."
Go on Noetic, knock yourself out coming up with an explanation for this one. I would have naturally loved to ask u to define the fear of the Lord? . . . . . and to define righteousness? but I just remembered that anytime I do this, u tend to assume that I am evading your question. So I will define these terms before answering your question. The bible has 2 definition for righteousness: DEU 6:24-25 24And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.The second definition can be deduced from Romans 6:14-23 14For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
The bible also defines the fear of the Lord. . . . . .Deuteronomy 10:32 12And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,From the above biblical definitions. . . .and based on the assumption that u are implying that salvation in Jesus is not the ticket to Jesus heaven. . .I would say that true to the verse u quoted, God is no respecter of persons, thats why Christ went to the grave to save those who lived before Him and never knew of Him. However, I have not seen anything in the bible that suggests that people who WILLINGLY rejected the gospel/salvation of Christ would inherit eternity. . . . , they would partake in eternal damnation called HELL. Deep Sight,
Since you are the only person who have the temperment and patient to go the distance with Noetic, I want you to add this to your question;
Since no person from the East or west Knew of people living on the African Coast until Portuguese explorers were able to sail beyond " the sea of Darkness" which is present day Cape Verde", around1440 AD, How do you think the natives who had never seen or heard of a white man, accept the white man's saviour as his own? How can you expect him to accept a white man such as Abraham, Jacob and Isaac as his ancestors?. I have NO reason to believe that Abraham, Jacob and Isaac are my biological ancestors. . . . . .but by a revelation of faith, I claim the blessings of abraham and I am as such a descendant of Abraham. no African has any reason to believe that he/she is a direct descendant of abraham (I dont know how possible or impossible that is) . . . .but abraham is relevant to the Christian faith cos he walked with God, inherited a covenant and we (christians) are part of that covenant by FAITH. The same applies to the Americas, as the Western Men did not even know that a continent almost 20 times larger than their own existed until Columbus sailed in 1492. Before then the American natives did not know white men exists, so how do you expect them to agree that white men were their ancestors and saviour,
instead of the Gods that have served them for hundreds if not thousands of years.
Then would it be fair or sensible for God to sent the Natives to hell for refusing the saviour of white men who came to steal and plunder their lands and kill of their people. Would that not be a very cruel, partial and unjust God.
Neither Jesus nor Abraham was either an European or Gentile. They were Jews by human language. . . .this has no relation to salvation even though many Europeans and Gentiles have accepted the gospel and the salvation of Christ. whatever your reasons for rejecting the salvation of Christ. . .be ready to face the consequences. |
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Purist (m)
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@noetic15
Your last response in our Elijah debate, and your subsequent responses on this thread have just confirmed by fears. You're a pathetic and dishonest debater. I sensed that the first time I engaged you.
There seems to be this inherent, albeit unhealthy pride in you, that makes you to always rebut condescendingly whenever an opposing view/idea negates your submissions. Not a good "Christian" virtue, if you ask me.
This is made evident in the way you mischieviously evade questions by trickishly answering questions with questions, and the more criminal one - attempting to make the other party look stupid by inferring that they have misinterpreted your post, or that they read upside down, or that they cannot read at all.
Anyway, it's obvious what you're up to, every sensible person here can clearly see through your mischief.
I give up on you. . . for now.
I guess banom was right. Deep Sight, continue at your own risk.
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noetic15 (m)
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@noetic15
Your last response in our Elijah debate, and your subsequent responses on this thread have just confirmed by fears. You're a pathetic and dishonest debater. I sensed that the first time I engaged you.
There seems to be this inherent, albeit unhealthy pride in you, that makes you to always rebut condescendingly whenever an opposing view/idea negates your submissions. Not a good "Christian" virtue, if you ask me.
This is made evident in the way you mischieviously evade questions by trickishly answering questions with questions, and the more criminal one - attempting to make the other party look stupid by inferring that they have misinterpreted your post, or that they read upside down, or that they cannot read at all.
Anyway, it's obvious what you're up to, every sensible person here can clearly see through your mischief.
I give up on you. . . for now.
I guess banom was right. Deep Sight, continue at your own risk.
you are entitled to your opinion. |
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Deep Sight (m)
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Noetic - another morsel for thought.
"Verily verily i say unto you, whatsoever a man soweth, the same shall he reap".
Please dont in your usual way ask me for definitions. This verse is clear.
GBAM!
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noetic15 (m)
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A man who rejects the salvation of Jesus will reap what he has sowed, , , or am I wrong?
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Pastor AIO
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@noetic15
There seems to be this inherent, albeit unhealthy pride in you, that makes you to always rebut condescendingly whenever an opposing view/idea negates your submissions. Not a good "Christian" virtue, if you ask me.
I just want to say in defence of Noetic that I don't think that the pride is inherent, but rather it has come from without and infected him. It is a pattern common amongst religionists (those whose faith is based on intellectual postulations, no matter how shaky). His own is even small. I recall a girl a while back who would rebut whatever was put to her with a cry of 'Hubris'! 'Hubris!!', she would scream at any one that dared to voice a contrary opinion. I thought that Hubris described the act of challenging the Gods. I checked my dictionary again and that was one of the meanings. It was either that woman didn't really know the meaning of hubris or she was equating herself to God. That's how far it can go. The problems isn't with her and neither is it with Noetic but rather the religionism that they've immersed themselves in. It leads to intellectual pride that cannot bear debate. |
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noetic15 (m)
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@ DeepSight
have u ever read 1Corth 1:18 . . . . . . . .?
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Deep Sight (m)
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Whatdo you understand by the word 'Cross' contained therein????
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noetic15 (m)
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Salvation . . . , , .so will u now answer my question?
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Deep Sight (m)
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"Cross" as used in the NT referred to a burden being carried by a (sometimes condemned) man.
You agree?
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noetic15 (m)
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"Cross" as used in the NT referred to a burden being carried by a (sometimes condemned) man.
You agree?
 I disagree. Cross refers to the death and ressurection of Jesus as symbolised in His salvation. why would the cross refer to a burden, when Christ had just risen? can a burden be preached?. . , No. but Salvation can be preached. So tell me. . .what does that verse tell u? |
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Deep Sight (m)
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^^^ That dogma cannot be understood by rational men, that's what it tells me. Noetic, note that whenever a cult or sect is propounding a difficult dogma, the first excuse they cover it with is - "o, you cannot understand except by revelation, initiation, etc" At all events, please do me a favour and review the first post in this thread in the link below, for a proper appreciation of the significance of the judicial murder of Jesus of Nazareth by the Romans and Jews. You may recall that i have once asked you what you thought about the Parable of the Vineyard, but your response was both evasive and lacking in content. http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-338329.0.html |
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KunleOshob (m)
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I just want to say in defence of Noetic that I don't think that the pride is inherent, but rather it has come from without and infected him. It is a pattern common amongst religionists (those whose faith is based on intellectual postulations, no matter how shaky). His own is even small. I recall a girl a while back who would rebut whatever was put to her with a cry of 'Hubris'! 'Hubris!!', she would scream at any one that dared to voice a contrary opinion. I thought that Hubris described the act of challenging the Gods. I checked my dictionary again and that was one of the meanings. It was either that woman didn't really know the meaning of hubris or she was equating herself to God. That's how far it can go.
The problems isn't with her and neither is it with Noetic but rather the religionism that they've immersed themselves in. It leads to intellectual pride that cannot bear debate.
Pastor are you trying to blasphem against my darling Pilgrim.1 viaro  Or don't you know she is infallible Please note that we will not take kindly to any utterances against her on this forum else you offend the gods.  |
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Pastor AIO
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Pastor are you trying to blasphem against my darling Pilgrim.1 viaro Or don't you know she is infallible Please note that we will not take kindly to any utterances against her on this forum else you offend the gods. OMG! I've just gone and read through Viaro's submissions and his style is remarkably like Pilgrim.1's. However he denies being her, or even being a woman. But let me hasten to remark that I did not mention any names in the above post. So if Pilgrim is still knocking about in a different guise I just want to commot hand from any finger pointing. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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OMG! I've just gone and read through Viaro's submissions and his style is remarkably like Pilgrim.1's. However he denies being her, or even being a woman.
But let me hasten to remark that I did not mention any names in the above post. So if Pilgrim is still knocking about in a different guise I just want to commot hand from any finger pointing.
You had better else you would be guilty of commiting hubris. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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@deepsight
I crave your indulgence to drop another 'morsel' for Noetic to explain better to us.
@Noetic
Could you explain the below better within the salvation context.
Revelation 20:11-13:
The Final Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds.
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Deep Sight (m)
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@deepsight
I crave your indulgence to drop another 'morsel' for Noetic to explain better to us.
@Noetic
Could you explain the below better within the salvation context.
Revelation 20:11-13:
The Final Judgment
11 And I saw a great white throne and the one sitting on it. The earth and sky fled from his presence, but they found no place to hide. 12 I saw the dead, both great and small, standing before God’s throne. And the books were opened, including the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to what they had done, as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up its dead, and death and the grave gave up their dead. And all were judged according to their deeds.
GBAM! GBAM!! GBOGA!!! |
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Marlbron
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Noetic.
God is a spirit and is present in each of his creations. Remember he created all things and all religions. God is also Love. Since Christ is God, then it follows that Christ is Love. It follows that anybody practicing Love, has known God (Christ). it is possible to know Christ, without being a Christian. remember that God does everything. He gives us the ability to know him and He calls us to himself. He has his way to make people know his Christ either in this world or in their reincarnated world. His injuction was for all to practice righteousness and not for us to judge.
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noetic15 (m)
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Noetic.
God is a spirit and is present in each of his creations. Remember he created all things and all religions. God is also Love. Since Christ is God, then it follows that Christ is Love. It follows that anybody practicing Love, has known God (Christ). it is possible to know Christ, without being a Christian. remember that God does everything. He gives us the ability to know him and He calls us to himself. He has his way to make people know his Christ either in this world or in their reincarnated world. His injuction was for all to practice righteousness and not for us to judge.
does the bible support this assertion? |
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KunleOshob (m)
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does the bible support this assertion?
Yes it does  John 15:9-13: 9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. |
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KunleOshob (m)
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Romans 13:8-10:
Love Fulfills God’s Requirements
8 Owe nothing to anyone—except for your obligation to love one another. If you love your neighbor, you will fulfill the requirements of God’s law. 9 For the commandments say, “You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not covet.” These—and other such commandments—are summed up in this one commandment: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no wrong to others, so love fulfills the requirements of God’s law.
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noetic15 (m)
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Yes it does John 15:9-13: 9 “I have loved you even as the Father has loved me. Remain in my love. 10 When you obey my commandments, you remain in my love, just as I obey my Father’s commandments and remain in his love. 11 I have told you these things so that you will be filled with my joy. Yes, your joy will overflow! 12 This is my commandment: Love each other in the same way I have loved you. 13 There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. the parable of the "good samaritan" establishes that the love of one's neighbour is founded on the love of God. how can u love God whom u dont know? Also read John 3:15-17 15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.There is no love outside of Christ. |
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Purist (m)
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There is no love outside of Christ.
How about those who show love to their neighbour, despite the fact they have never heard the name "Jesus"? The kind of love Mahatma Ghandi had for his people can only be next to the love Jesus showed and preached while on earth. Mahatma Ghandi himself admitted that he employed the teachings of Jesus in the peaceful stuggle that led to the independence of India, as exemplified in his constant insistence on non-violence. But of course, according to you, because he didn't die a Christian, he's currently burning in hell. |
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Deep Sight (m)
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^^^ not only does noetic insist that mahatma ghandi is burning in hell, he also went so far as to state that ghandi was not a peace maker at all as conceived in the beatitudes.
He said this because i pointed out to him the beatitude where jesus says "blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called children of God".
U see what dogma does to men's minds?
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KunleOshob (m)
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the parable of the "good samaritan" establishes that the love of one's neighbour is founded on the love of God. how can u love God whom u dont know?
Also read John 3:15-17
15that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.
16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.
There is no love outside of Christ.
And how do the scriptures quoted above justify your conclusion that "there is no love outside of Christ" I really do appreciated your passion for the christian faith, but in your over zealousness you are getting it all wrong. You really need to open your mind and study the teachings of christ properly and in a broader context for you to truly understand, don't just take doctrine or church interpretation and run with it. |
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noetic15 (m)
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How about those who show love to their neighbour, despite the fact they have never heard the name "Jesus"?
The kind of love Mahatma Ghandi had for his people can only be next to the love Jesus showed and preached while on earth. Mahatma Ghandi himself admitted that he employed the teachings of Jesus in the peaceful stuggle that led to the independence of India, as exemplified in his constant insistence on non-violence. But of course, according to you, because he didn't die a Christian, he's currently burning in hell.
1. why dont u educate me? what does it mean to love ones neighbour as directed by the bible? is this commandment alien. . . .does it stand alone as an absolute? 2. what a dumb assertion Ghandi employed Christ's teachings but refused to accept Christ's salvation what rubbish is this? |
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noetic15 (m)
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And how do the scriptures quoted above justify your conclusion that "there is no love outside of Christ" I really do appreciated your passion for the christian faith, but in your over zealousness you are getting it all wrong. You really need to open your mind and study the teachings of christ properly and in a broader context for you to truly understand, don't just take doctrine or church interpretation and run with it. u are yet to explain to me what EXACTLY I am getting wrong and how? |
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