Is Allaah A Supreme Being Or Not, Nezan Et Al Come Around

I don;t see why you need to even start a topic of this nature, considering that now it has been historically established that the very foundation of  Pauline Christianity is a theft from Mithra---the true dying man paganistic myth who came to save the people from their sins, sounds similar?

If you want to begin an investigation on who is Allah, the history of the name, the semantics, let us start with these videos that are on youtube by Jews and Muslim. No theory is as dead as the Moon God assertion.

When you type in God in the standard Aramaic lexicon here is the answer

"Meaning:God
Pronunciation:   (Eastern) AaLaH


Look like Jesus was worshipping Allah and called his lord as such , he didnt use the word Lord or God. Not a good argument to put forward.

NOW here is a vidoe that completely distroys the moon god assertion(most christian abadon the theory)

here are three videos since am objective dubunking your assertion

from a jew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_l3wmMSJcU

here is another aramaic jewish speaking guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3XUNwPcIZg&feature=related

Here is another video that totally destroys the Moon GOD assertion made by a white dude

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ4rYO_4JDE

See all different perspectives

Instead of using Muslim arguments, ill be objective and show what christian scholarships tell us now


Rick Brown in an article entitled "Who Is "Allah"?" in the International Journal Of Frontier Missions - a well-known missiology journal - which appeared in the summer of 2006, addressed the issue of various claims concerning Allah by his fellow Christian brethren. He starts by saying in the beginning of his article:


"Much of the anger expressed in the West has taken the form of demonizing the Islamic religion, to the extent of accusing Muslims of worshipping a demon. A key element of this attack has been the claim of some that the name Allah refers to a demon or at least a pagan deity, notably the so-called "moon god." Such claims have even been made by scholars who are reputable in their own fields but who are poorly acquainted with the Arabic language and Middle-Eastern history. The Kingdom of God, however, is never advanced by being untruthful, so this matter bears further investigation."

on whether Allah is the name of a demon or have rooted in paganism

"Suppose for the sake of argument that the ancient Arabs did worship the moon. This would have no bearing on the name Allah, for there is no inscription that identifies Allah as a moon god or as a pagan deity. This contrasts with the Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and English words for God, all of which descend from words that were commonly used by pagans in reference to pagan deities. So the name Allah is freer of pagan roots than are these other names"

Imad Shehadeh from Jordan Evangelical Theological Seminary refuted Morey's claim of Allah originally being the Moon-god of Arabia using textual, lexical, historical and theological evidences

"A recent popular theory asserts that Allah was originally the moon god worshiped in Arabia before and during Muhammad's time. According to this theory, when Muhammad came on the scene, the Ka‘bah contained 360 idols, among which was the moon god called 'ilah, or "a god." Then it is said that Muhammad declared this moon god to be the chief god and called it 'al 'ilah by adding the article 'al to 'ilah, thus yielding the meaning "the god.",  Morey, who is foremost in popularizing this theory, cites many references from encyclopedias, dictionaries, works of philosophy and history, as well as various writers. However, though there is little doubt about the existence of moon god worshiped in Arabia before and during Muhammad's time, there are several weaknesses with identifying this moon god with Allah. In fact Muhammad initially adopted the name "Allah" as it was used by the Arabic-speaking Jews and Christians of his day in referring to the true God of the Bible. This assertion is based on four factors: textual, lexical, historical, and theological"("Do Muslims And Christians Believe In The Same God?)

what do the majority of scholars say

"d in the journal Christian Century recently. The question of whether Christians and Muslims worship the same God was dealt with by Jewish, Christian and Muslim scholars. They all reached the same conclusion that both Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God albeit they differ on the nature of God."

As a note here it would be interesting for you too look into the thousands of claims of coptic Arabic christian going back before Islam who say Allah is the one true God and as a consequence it is all over their bible.

Last the last punch in the Gut of Nioletic, here is an interesting article by a Christian refuting the notion of Allah being a separate Diety or being a demon God.



"1- The Name of Allah is the name of the true God:

      a- The Moslems worship the true God who has been the God of the Ancient and New Testament. They confess that "in order to be a good Moslem, you have to be a good Jew and a good Christian", a statement of confessing to the truth of the other two religions.

      b- The name of Allah was taking by the Moslems from the Christians who existed five centuries before the arrival of Islam. Arabs were mentioned in the book of Acts at the time of the Pentecost."

On the liguistic formation of Allah:

"- The Name of Allah is the same as the name of Elohim:

      a- In the Semetic languages Vowels do not count. Consonants form the words. These consonants are not written because they are not important and they do make the word sick and ill. So if we look at the name of Allah and the name of Elohim we will find the following:

            Allah = L + H, Elohim = L+H+M (we will ignore the M and come back to it later).

      b- In the Semetic languages, word roots are formed of three letters. It was found later on that these three letters were formed of two two-letter verbs. A complete study was made by several scholars among which is Fr. Marmarji S.J. in Lebanon.

      c- L+H= LH (pronounced 'lahh') means "to him". God, Allah or Yahweh is not the name of God, Allah and Yahweh. God is not the name. He exists and no one knows his name. If we know His name then we will possess Him and understand Him, then He is not God the Omnopotents the Existant etc,

      d- So instead we say "to Him" be the glory. "To Him" be the praise Look at the book of Revelation 5:13: Blessing and honor and glory and power be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. It is safe to say that instead of saying God you can say "To Him"

      e- Till our present day, Christians and Moslems replace the name of God with "Taala" (pronounced 'Tah-ah-lah') the excelsior, the most high."

Thank you Shakerz for your quick intervention, let me take a rest until any of them troubles us again. I am very impressed.

what is the relevance of the above to the historical origin of the idolic allah? 

can anyone make sense of the above? 

I want to be gentler with you O Noetic. Okay let see what you have said:

You wrote: “I am not impressed. . .these lies have been in circulation for a very long time.”

I say: You cannot be impressed with what Shakerz has brought because you deliberately closed your eyes to the truth. So the Word of Allaah can be used against you:

“Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether You (O Muhammad Sal-Allaahu 'alayhe Wa Sallam) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe. Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.” [Q2: 6-8].

The verses I brought may not interest you because of what you said below:


“start by answering the questions in my first post.”

I say: And what was that?

You wrote in your that post:

“a. who was the allah that mohammed's father was serving?”

If by Muhammad’s father you mean ‘Abdullah’ then open your eyes and your heart (I am not going to lose hope on you).
Literally ‘Abdullah’ means ‘Slave of Allaah’ by that you may not be wrong in saying that he was serving Allaah. You asked who was that Allaah that he was serving because then the message of Islam, a supposed message of monotheism, you will say, had not come, then why was Abdullah, the father of the Prophet of Islam named so if truly that Allaah was not an idol (purified is the Mighty Lord from such an evil ascription)?

Shakerz had brought some works of your Christian theologians to debunk that but you were not ‘impressed’ by them because you have your hidden motive.

Well Shakerz had brought those materials from Christian point of view (may Allaah the Most Sublime reward him for that), I will give you the Islamic version, so sit back Noetic and enjoy it:

The Arabs before Muhammad had believed in a Supreme being called Allaah, the Qur’aan testifies to that:

“And if You (O Muhammad Sal-Allaahu 'alayhe Wa Sallam) ask them: "Who has created the heavens and the earth," they will certainly say: "Allâh." say: "All the praises and thanks be to Allâh!" but Most of them know not.” [Q31: 25]

If the Arabs did not believe so they would have said the Prophet was telling a lie. And do you say an idol can create the heaven and the earth? If you say yes, I see the heaven falling on you.

And when the Qur’aan says:

“Do You feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allâh), will not Cause the earth to sink with you, Then behold it shakes (as In an earthquake)?
Or do You feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allâh), will not send against You a violent whirlwind? Then You shall know How (terrible) has been My Warning?” [Mulk: 16-17].

Noetic, don’t you think that if Allaah is not truly in the Heaven the Arabs would say O Muhammad stop it, Allaah is there in Ka’bah.

And if you are not satisfied yet, Noetic you will agree with me that if Allaah were an idol, then He ought to be seen, but the Qur’aan says:

“Such is Allâh, Your Lord! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the Right to be worshipped but He), the Creator of All things. so Worship Him (Alone), and He is the Wakîl (Trustee, Disposer of affairs, Guardian, etc.) over All things.
No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over All vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, Well­Acquainted with All things.” [Q6: 106-107].

Vision can definitely grasp an idol, all idols of this world have their pictures with people (very unfortunately our noble Prophet Jesus Christ has been made an idol too, but Allaah will save him on the Day of Resurrection) it is only the Mighty Lord Allaah that you cannot have His Picture. Will you now understand O Noetic?

And if Allaah were an idol (I seek refuge in Allaah from that), the Arabs would have told Muhaamad that stop it we see him every day at Ka’bah or what a view.

And see the description of Allaah below and see whether it fits an idol:

“Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the Right to be worshipped but He), the ever living, the one who sustains and protects All that exists. neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. to Him belongs whatever is In the heavens and whatever is on earth. who is He that can intercede with Him except with his Permission? He knows what happens to them (his creatures) In This world, and what will happen to them In the Hereafter . and they will never compass anything of his knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue In guarding and preserving them. and He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]” [Q2: 255].

Can an idol be so described O Noetic?

So the father of our dear Prophet was called Abdullah because the Arabs in his time still have a faint sense of monotheism in them in that they knew Allaah was the Supreme Being

It is this Allaah that sent all the Prophets: Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

“Verily, we have inspired You (O Muhammad ) as we inspired Nûh (Noah) and the Prophets after him; we (also) inspired Ibrâhim (Abraham), Ismâ'il (Ishmael), Ishâque (Isaac), Ya'qûb (Jacob), and Al­Asbât [the twelve sons of Ya'qûb (Jacob)], 'Iesa (Jesus), Ayub (Job), Yûnus (Jonah), Hârûn (Aaron), and Sulaimân (Solomon), and to Dawûd (David) we gave the Zabûr (Psalms).

And Messengers we have mentioned to You before, and Messengers we have not mentioned to you, - and to Mûsa (Moses) Allâh spoke directly.

Messengers as bearers of good news as well as of warning In order that mankind should have no plea against Allâh after the Messengers. and Allâh is ever All­Powerful, All­Wise.” [Q4: 163-165].

See it Allaah spoke to Moses directly! Was that the idol of the Arabs?

I wish Allaah open your heart to the truth.

And your second question:

“b. why did allah stop using anointing oil and stopped accepting priestly sacrifices?”

I can tell you I don’t understand what you are saying, and you yourself do not understand yourself (that can be a form of insanity), please can you explain yourself further.



“allah is an arabian idolic demon rebranded by mohammed.”


I think with the foregoing you should be ashamed of yourself for writing that.

Hope to hear from you, Noetic my newest.

abulbanaat or whatever you call yourself, you will notice that I stopped posting further on the contradictions in the koran, not that I lacked ideas or I failed. I stopped because you deluded slaves of allah are too scared to face up to the false claims in islam. My posts (where I roundly trounced your big daddy, olabowale on that thread) were deleted, owing to your inability to face up to my arguments. I will also not respond to this thread because even if I did, your fears on the failures in islam wont allow my posts to stand. Your mods even went as far as locking a thread I opened to complained . . . why?

But you can read this for keeps . . .

 
The biblical God is called Yahweh (or Jehovah) nearly 9,000 times. Yet Allah is not called by that name even once in the Koran.  Why not, if Allah is the same God?  God is also referred to as Elohim more than 2,500 times in the Bible, but again that word never appears for Allah in the Koran.  Why?  The God of the Bible is called "The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob “Israel" (Jacob's name was changed by God to Israel later in life, so he is referred to by either name).  He is the father of the Jews.

 

            The God of the Bible revealed himself to Moses at the burning bush by this name ("God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob “Israel") and told Moses, "this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations" (Ex 3:1-16).  If Allah is the God of the Bible, why is he never called by these names?  The God of the Bible tells us again and again that He is the God of the Jews.  Many times He is called "the God of Israel."  Yet there is such hatred for Israel among Muslims!  The Koran talks about Abraham and Ishmael, even claims they built the Kaaba, but gives Isaac no prominence. The Bible mentions Isaac favorably and prominently more than 150 times. God very clearly says that His covenant is with Isaac, not with Ishmael (Genesis 17:19-21), from whom the Arabs claim they are descended.  The God of the Bible calls the Jews His chosen people.  He loves them and gave the land of Israel to them as an heritage forever, as hundreds of verses in the Bible declare.  Islam denies this basic biblical truth.  The Jews are certainly not Allah's chosen people! How can Allah be the God of the Bible, yet not choose the Jews?

 

            In your Koran, as you must know, Allah commands Muslims, "Take not the Jews and Christians as friends 1 Surah 5:51, A1 Hi1-a1i, v. 54, Jusuf a1i), so Allah is not the God of the Christians either. In the hadith, Muhammad himself said, "The last hour will not come before the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them" (Mishkat al Masabih Sh. M. Ashraf, 1990, pp. 147, 721, 810-11, 1130, etc.).  Islam's god hates the Jews; the God of the Bible loves them as His chosen people! Allah is very clearly not Jehovah, Elohim, the God of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the God of the Bible!

 

            The God of the Bible chose Jerusalem as His holy city. Forty times He calls Jerusalem "the city of David" and repeatedly He promises that the Messiah will be descended from David and will rule on David's throne in Jerusalem over the whole world (2 Chronicles 6:6; 33:7; 2 Samuel 7: 16; Psalm 89:3-29, etc.).  Never does the Bible (or the God of the Bible) mention Mecca or Medina, but Jerusalem is mentioned more than 800 times.  Yet Allah never mentions Jerusalem.  How can this be if Allah is the God of the Bible?  And how can the Muslims today claim Jerusalem as a holy city of Islam, when it isn't even mentioned in the Koran?  That recent claim comes from those who want to take that city from the Jews.

 

            That Allah has no son is further proof that He is not the God of the Bible, who definitely has a Son, as both the Old and New Testaments declare.  Psalms 2 says, "Kiss the Son." Referring to the God of the Bible, Solomon says, "What is his son's name, ?" (Proverbs 30:4). The angel Gabriel, whom Islam claims to honor, told the virgin Mary (Islam accepts the virgin birth of Jesus), " And, behold, thou shalt, bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.  He shall be, called the Son of the Highest , the Son of God, and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David, " (Luke 1:31-35). That throne is in Jerusalem, not in Mecca.

 

            Muslims insist that the name " Allah" must be used in every language; it cannot be translated Dios in Spanish, Dieu in French, or God in English.  Muslims thus treat " Allah" not as a generic word for God, but as the name of a particular god.  In fact, Allah was the god of the Kuraish tribe centuries before Muhammad was born.  You deny that he was the chief god in the Kaaba, but you admit there were for centuries 360 idols in the Kaaba and one of these was called Allah. What is Allah doing in a temple among 360 idols if he is the God of the Bible, who forbids idolatry?  Why does Islam keep this idol temple, and why must Muslims to this day make a pilgrimage there?  That Allah was the chief idol in the Kaaba is documented history.  Let me quote one of the greatest historians:    The desert Arab, feared and worshiped incalculable deities in stars and moons, Now and then he offered human sacrifice; and here and there he worshiped sacred stones.  The center of this stone worship was Mecca (with) the Kaaba and its sacred Black Stone, in its southeast corner, five feet from the ground, just right for kissing.…

 

            Within the Kaaba, in pre-Moslem days, were several idols representing gods.  One was called Allah, three others were Allah's daughters, al-Uzza, al-Lat, and Manah.  We may judge the antiquity of this Arab pantheon from the mention of A1-il Lat (AI-Lat) by Herodotus [fifth century B.C. Greek historian] as a major Arabian deity . The Quraish [Muhammad's tribe controlling Mecca] paved the way for monotheism by worshiping Allah as chief god; He was presented to the Meccans as the Lord of their soil, to Whom they must pay a tithe of their crops and the first-born of their herds. The Quraish, as alleged descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, appointed the priests and guardians of the shrine and managed its revenues (Will Durant, "The Story of Civilization," IV: 160-61).

 

            The Kaaba still stands, without its idols, but with the Black Stone.  The pilgrimage to the Kaaba, to, kiss the sacred stone, to run between Safa and Marwa, and to climb Mount Arafa, was practiced by pious pagan Arabs for centuries before Muhammad.  Why did your prophet keep, as part of Islam, these pagan rituals?

 

            You say "Islam is the religion of Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, "  Do you think Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, et al. journeyed to the idol temple, the Kaaba, and kissed its Black Stone?  Impossible!  Not one follower of the God of the Bible would ever have gone near the Kaaba, because the God of the Bible forbids any association with idols; and you admit (as history tells us) that the Kaaba was filled with idols before Muhammad destroyed them all.  In history and the Bible, you will find no mention of Islam or any religion like it.  How could you have Islam without the Koran and Muhammad?

 

            The only people who journeyed to the Kaaba and kissed the Black Stone were pagan Arabs who worshiped one or more of the idols within and around it.  Muhammad started a new religion called Islam to which Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, Turks and everyone else in the region had to convert at the point of the sword.  They became Muslims, and there is no way you can say that Islam was the original religion of that or any other region.

 

            You ask me to explain, "The God of the Bible is love, an impossibility for Allah."  If Allah is a single being, as Muslims insist, then he cannot be love in and of himself, because he had no one to love until he created others; but the God of the Bible is love in and of Himself because He is three Persons but One God.  Father, Son and Holy Spirit loved and communed with one another before men or angels were created.

 

            While the Jews know that Allah is not Jehovah, they try to say (as Muslims do for Allah) that Jehovah is a single being.  If so, then why does the Bible refer to Him more than 2,500 times with the plural Elohim (gods)?  Interestingly, however, always with the plural noun there is a singular verb.  One cannot escape the plurality combined with singularity repeatedly used.

 

            The famous shema (Dt 6:4), the most fundamental saying about God for a Jew, declares, "Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah." Far from declaring that the God of the Bible is a singular being, the Hebrew word translated "one" is echad, which means a unity of several becoming one, as when God said the man and woman became "one (echad) flesh" (Genesis 2:24); when many soldiers became "one (echad) troop" (2 Samuel 2:25) or when two sticks became "one (echad) stick" (Ezekiel 37:17) etc.

 

            The Bible teaches that God's very essence is love and says, "God is love" (1 John 4:.  This is not true of Allah.  The Bible repeatedly speaks of God's love for man and the love we must have for Him.  But love is scarcely mentioned in the Koran.  Not once is "love" listed in the index of the popular Marmaduke Pickthall translation of the Koran.  Of Allah's 99 attributes, love is not one.  The Koran does say that Allah loves "the beneficent" (Surah 2:195), "the stedfast ( and) those whose deeds are good" (Surah 3:146-48), and "those who battle for his cause" (Surah 61:4). But never does it say he loves all mankind, much less sinners; but the God of the Bible loves sinners, even those who hate Him.  Allah is said to be merciful, but he does not show mercy to those who need it.  The God of the Bible, however, is merciful to all, ready to forgive confessed sin.

 

            The first of the Ten Commandments is that we are to love the God of the Bible with our whole heart; but never does the Koran say a Muslim is to love Allah.  You cannot love Allah, because he is unknowable.  The God of the Bible can be known and repeatedly calls upon men to know Him; but the Koran says no one can know Allah because he is too great.  In spite of being infinite, without beginning and end, and the Creator of the universe, the biblical God reveals himself so that men can know Him.  Jesus himself said, "This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" (John 17:3).  Those who don't know the God of the Bible are lost eternally. No one knows Allah.

 

            The Bible is filled with prophecies of the coming of Messiah Jesus, but there is not one such prophecy in the Koran for Jesus or Muhammad.  In fact, the Koran was written after Muhammad came, so it could not prophesy his coming, but the Old Testament prophesied the coming of Jesus centuries and even thousands of years beforehand.  The Jewish prophets in the Old Testament said the Messiah would be crucified and rise from the dead the third day.  Jesus came at exactly the time prophesied and died for the sins of the world, as the Bible says over and over.  But the Koran contradicts this and says He didn't die on the cross at all, much less for our sins.  The Bible says that the penalty for sin must be paid and that God himself had to come as a man to die for our sins.  Allah did not do that.

 

            How does Allah save sinners?  It would be unjust to forgive the guilty without the penalty being paid.  Where does Allah explain the penalty?  When and by whom was that penalty paid?  If Allah forgives, how does he forgive?  Allah simply refuses to forgive or forgives whom he will, but there is no consistent or just basis for either.  No Muslim can be sure Allah will forgive him.  As a Christian I know for certain that I have been forgiven all my sins and that I have eternal life as a free gift from God through the death and resurrection of Christ and that I will be in heaven—not by my good works, but by Christ paying the penalty for my sins.  Allah is merciful to those who do good.  The Bible says that none do good, all have sinned, and that God saves sinners if they believe in the Christ who died for them.

How long will it take you to compile your answers?

^^^^^^^^^^^
He probably might have read about it for the first time.

Allah is NOT the God of Israel, but the PERSONAL NAME of the 'divine spirit' that according to the beliefs of the pagan Arabs,RESIDED in the Black Stone meteorite - embedded in the wall of the Ka'ba - that was VENERATED by the pagan Arabians long before Muhammad and his Quran.

Allah is an Arabian idol.