Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves

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akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #448 on: November 03, 2009, 08:33 PM »

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:29 PM

Nigerians for what they are submit their moral values and vote in thugs in Agbada into power and yet they expect em to deliver.
We cannot EAT our cakes and have em. Every country gets the government it deserves.

Very correct


akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #449 on: November 03, 2009, 08:35 PM »

The truth is that the average Nigerian doesn't really care what happens and
long as he's feeding his family.

Like Fela sang I no wan die, I wan buid house, papa dey for house
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #450 on: November 03, 2009, 08:40 PM »

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:29 PM
Hehe.
What you seem to forget is how these corrupt Politicians got into power. . . . .
I am not sure where you get that I FORGET THAT FACT at all!!! Unless you can show me the exact lines where you read that from.

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:29 PM
They come around bribing the citizens into voting em in because of peanuts.
Nigerians for what they are submit their moral values and vote in thugs in Agbada into power and yet they expect em to deliver.
We cannot EAT our cakes and have em. Every country gets the government it deserves.
That is no excuse for the FEW who claim to CARE to sit back and DEMAND others not complain or SPEAK OUT against what is happening. I just mentioned fighting and YOU IMMEDIATELY assumed guns and bombs. Yet you probably live in a country where EVERY SINGLE DAY someone is in the courts FIGHTING to put in place some sort of legislature to better the people in that community.

That the majority seem aloof/corrupt/care free is NO REASON why YOU and others like you out there should continue thinking it is someone else’s place to DO FOR YOU.
akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #451 on: November 03, 2009, 08:41 PM »

The truth is that the average Nigerian doesn't really care what happens and
long as he's feeding his family.

Like Fela sang I no wan die, I wan buid house, papa dey for house

@ kobo,

I dont really believe filing complaints will solve these problems. Millions of
Nigerians have complained at the right places like the house of assemblies,
through demonstrations and so on.

Here is what I think we can do. . . although no one has ever agreed with me

We should get more involved in politics and get good people into the right
offices. We should be more active in these things.

If a good man like Fashola had not gone into politics, maybe we would have
had another charlatan in office and Fashola himself will be in his law office
complaining.

I've decided to get more involved in electing the right people
~Sauron~
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #452 on: November 03, 2009, 08:45 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 03, 2009, 08:40 PM
I am not sure where you get that I FORGET THAT FACT at all!!! Unless you can show me the exact lines where you read that from.

Cos you expect these thugs to change once they got into POWER. How can?
Their first objective is to recoup the money they spent putting em in power in the first place and it's a bit rich expecting these immoral men to change all of a sudden.

Quote
That is no excuse for the FEW who claim to CARE to sit back and DEMAND others not complain or SPEAK OUT against what is happening. I just mentioned fighting and YOU IMMEDIATELY assumed guns and bombs. Yet you probably live in a country where EVERY SINGLE DAY someone is in the courts FIGHTING to put in place some sort of legislature to better the people in that community.

Let everyone carry out their roles in Nigeria.
The citizens have a big part to play. They should stop voting for corrupt politicians and then expect them to care for them.

Quote
That the majority seem aloof/corrupt/care free is NO REASON why YOU and others like you out there should continue thinking it is someone else’s place to DO FOR YOU.

I laugh in SWAHILI.
Nigerians will take care of themselves. Grin
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #453 on: November 03, 2009, 09:23 PM »

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:45 PM
Cos you expect these thugs to change once they got into POWER. How can?
How did you arrive at the above being my thought? I mean it is one thing to debate and another to just have to constantly defend oneself.
Could you please SHOW ME THE EXACT place where you got the above from?  I remember mention something about FIGHTING those in government and you interpret that to mean I EXPECT THEM TO CHANGE once they get into power? HOW?? HOW?? Ugh!

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:45 PM
Their first objective is to recoup the money they spent putting em in power in the first place and it's a bit rich expecting these immoral men to change all of a sudden.

Where do you get this idea of CHANGE from? I need to know.

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 03, 2009, 08:45 PM
Let everyone carry out their roles in Nigeria.
The citizens have a big part to play. They should stop voting for corrupt politicians and then expect them to care for them.

I laugh in SWAHILI.
Nigerians will take care of themselves. Grin
UGH!!! This is becoming irritating dude . . . 
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #454 on: November 03, 2009, 09:40 PM »

Quote from: akinalabi on November 03, 2009, 08:41 PM
@ kobo,

I dont really believe filing complaints will solve these problems. Millions of
Nigerians have complained at the right places like the house of assemblies,
through demonstrations and so on.

One of the biggest problem we have as a nation is that we like to believe OTHERS are out there doing it and so it is no worry for us to get involved.
 Only sometime ago, I decided to do some research of my own into whether people were actually complaining but it was just the case that the government did not care at all. In a town of about 500,000 people, over a period of about 8 years, only 500 complaints had come in and of the 500, less than 1/3 actually got any follow up from the complainants.

I was at the local post office inquiring as to the where about of my package. I was told that it was probably missing. I proceeded to demand I file a complaint reporting both the clerk and the office to whomever I could. I asked for a form and was surprised the clerk had no idea what I was asking for or why.  She asked if it was the case that I wanted to see her supervisor, to which I replied “No, he is probably in on it. I want an official form I can fill out and send to the right office or head office so they can look into the practices at your center”.  I was there about 2 hours. The manager came in, first attempted to shout me down but I would not budge as I demanded either my package be given me or a form to file. Long story short, the package MAGICALLY appeared about more than 2 and half hours.  I did not get a form but it made me realize that all this time, it was not as if people had actually been filing anything as I had always thought.




Quote from: akinalabi on November 03, 2009, 08:41 PM
Here is what I think we can do. . . although no one has ever agreed with meWe should get more involved in politics and get good people into the right offices. We should be more active in these things. If a good man like Fashola had not gone into politics, maybe we would have had another charlatan in office and Fashola himself will be in his law office
complaining. I've decided to get more involved in electing the right people

I don’t believe what we need is a NEW BATCH OF POTENTIAL THIEVES in there. I believe what we need is a RE-ORIENTIATION OF POWER. What we need is POWER moved to the people where it belongs.
akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #455 on: November 04, 2009, 12:24 AM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 03, 2009, 09:40 PM

I was at the local post office inquiring as to the where about of my package. I was told that it was probably missing. I proceeded to demand I file a complaint reporting both the clerk and the office to whomever I could. I asked for a form and was surprised the clerk had no idea what I was asking for or why.  She asked if it was the case that I wanted to see her supervisor, to which I replied “No, he is probably in on it. I want an official form I can fill out and send to the right office or head office so they can look into the practices at your center”.  I was there about 2 hours. The manager came in, first attempted to shout me down but I would not budge as I demanded either my package be given me or a form to file. Long story short, the package MAGICALLY appeared about more than 2 and half hours.  I did not get a form but it made me realize that all this time, it was not as if people had actually been filing anything as I had always thought.


The local post office? In the US or in Nigeria. I didnt really get that.

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 03, 2009, 09:40 PM
I don’t believe what we need is a NEW BATCH OF POTENTIAL THIEVES in there. I believe what we need is a RE-ORIENTIATION OF POWER. What we need is POWER moved to the people where it belongs.


We have different opinions on this one.

I believe there is no way power can be "moved" to the people without the people actually
participating.

And when I say people should "get involved", I wasn't suggesting  they must all contest
elections. We can all actively get involved in playing a part in ensuring credible people gets
into office.
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #456 on: November 04, 2009, 03:50 AM »

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 12:24 AM
The local post office? In the US or in Nigeria. I didnt really get that.
Somewhere in Lagos Nigeria
Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 12:24 AM
We have different opinions on this one.I believe there is no way power can be "moved" to the people without the people actually
participating.And when I say people should "get involved", I wasn't suggesting  they must all contest
elections. We can all actively get involved in playing a part in ensuring credible people getsinto office.

If you have read any of my previous posts up till this one, you would understand that I am of the mind that it is the DUTY of the people to FIX the situation. I, however, do not agree with getting NEW people in there. For one, we have GOTTEN so many new people in their over the years, only for them to turn around and stab us right where it hurts. I am NOT WILLING to put my trust in anyone, not even your dear Fashola.  However, I will trust more in a system that we, the people can push to have in place; a system that will ensure that all those who choose to move AGAINST the people will not only be removed from office immediately but be punished severely by the system (law). What do I mean? I mean regardless of who is voted in, if he/she is found wanting or with dirty hands, he/she will be punished to the full extent of the law and made an example for those to come later.
9jaganja
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #457 on: November 04, 2009, 05:37 AM »

We have sunshine in excess!!!. A town in Florida will soon be absolutely  dependent on Solar energy. These thing can be done easily. I have a friend who powered his parent's house with solar energy. Their bill is running negative the only problem is sunshine in Canada is not that much especially eastern parts only in Summer. I'm still learning how to make this thing from him.
akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #458 on: November 04, 2009, 05:55 AM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 04, 2009, 03:50 AM

If you have read any of my previous posts up till this one, you would understand that I am of the mind that it is the DUTY of the people to FIX the situation. I, however, do not agree with getting NEW people in there. For one, we have GOTTEN so many new people in their over the years, only for them to turn around and stab us right where it hurts. I am NOT WILLING to put my trust in anyone, not even your dear Fashola.  However, I will trust more in a system that we, the people can push to have in place; a system that will ensure that all those who choose to move AGAINST the people will not only be removed from office immediately but be punished severely by the system (law). What do I mean? I mean regardless of who is voted in, if he/she is found wanting or with dirty hands, he/she will be punished to the full extent of the law and made an example for those to come later.


My point is not about just getting new people in there and it is not about
putting our trust in individuals and in no way did I say Fashola was a perfect
man. Nope. I believe when we put the "right" people in there, we will be in
a better position to pull their ears.

I personally know how well Governors like Fashola and Chime of Enugu have
listened to people immediately complaints come in because they are the
right people.

Not getting the right people in there and then come later to file complaints
I believe will not work as well as getting it right from the onset.

Imagine a local government chaiman aspirant, giving you N1,000 vote for
him and you do that even when you know he is a thief, what moral justification
do you have to call him to order when he is in office.

This is an area I guess we cannot agree on and that is fine with me.
AjanleKoko
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #459 on: November 04, 2009, 08:28 AM »

After all sentiments expressed, let me say this, at least, from a tax-paying Nigerian professional and entrepreneur living and working here:

I will never, under any circumstance, use my personal funds to support development of my street, talk less of Nigeria. Why do I have to do that? This nation is stupendously wealthy, plus I pay more than my fair share of tax. That is considering I still have to provide my own power, water, transportation, and security, after paying tax to some government ghosts, who collect the money and are never seen again.

It's always funny when you hear of people talking about some solar business, inverter business, as the way out for Nigerians. What utter nonsense. Let the government hands off power generation like they did telecoms, and you'll see if anybody will buy any solar equipment or inverters.

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 04, 2009, 03:50 AM
If you have read any of my previous posts up till this one, you would understand that I am of the mind that it is the DUTY of the people to FIX the situation. I, however, do not agree with getting NEW people in there. For one, we have GOTTEN so many new people in their over the years, only for them to turn around and stab us right where it hurts. I am NOT WILLING to put my trust in anyone, not even your dear Fashola. However, I will trust more in a system that we, the people can push to have in place; a system that will ensure that all those who choose to move AGAINST the people will not only be removed from office immediately but be punished severely by the system (law). What do I mean? I mean regardless of who is voted in, if he/she is found wanting or with dirty hands, he/she will be punished to the full extent of the law and made an example for those to come later.

I think I fully back Kobojunkie on this one. I don't know why in Nigeria you have personalities who are worshipped, as opposed to espousing collective ideas. We are all shouting Fashola, Fashola, but that in itself shows how weak-minded people Nigerians are. Go anywhere in the developed world and see if anybody is singing the praises of any politician, yet everything works like clockwork. In places like Malaysia, nobody knows the name of the prime minister, yet the nation is well-developed. Only in twisted polities do you always hear the name of the 'leader' everywhere, in newspapers, on TV, on radio, always in your face. This self-worship is disgusting and Nigerians must discourage it. Fashola is our servant, not God.
Isu ata
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #460 on: November 04, 2009, 08:53 AM »

ose!, Sauron

  you nw wot i came to discover @ sauron,Akinlabi and , on d otherside-Kobo, lol!

   most of us dont understnad the true concept of leadership,  i heard it from my pastor dis morning

Pastor Biodun Fatoyinbo, "Leadership aint about the title neither is it tied to the fact dat you have people under
you but discovering your purpose/place and CREATING SOLUTIONS AT ANY LEVEL you find yourself den you know you are born to lead"


like sauron sed, the people shld complain but at the same time understand our place by providing solution at any level
we find ourselves , its called building the nation, i wish i cld get dat POEm we did in secondary school, Building the nation and Mending the wall
you shld read it kobo, i ll look for the authors.


i read somewia above wia yu concurred dat naija pple shld die in abject poverty but continue to complain and not betta dia lot by extention bettering d nations lot


the U.S you guys rever so well, if during dia time of depression, pple like Henry Ford decided to wiat for Govt enabled

environment, America wont be wot it is today, he wont be inspiration to mega superstars dat followed, if pple like Micheal Jackson
waited for enabling environment, he wont be the kind of inspiration he wields today,






and by the way


you guys that talk about TAX, OW much TAX do you guys pay hia in naija dat una dey complain?
no be TAX fashola say make una com pay wey most of una dey carry nose sey waiting dey happen?
and dats even at a point wia TAX recoupment framework has not being tightened and peculiarised to meet the changing(dynamic is d word)
corrupt and thieving mentality of the average Nigerian

yet yu guys complain as if no, the tax you pay is equivalent to kind they pay in UK or the US

find some new excuse to hoist on jo!
ehie (f)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #461 on: November 04, 2009, 09:43 AM »

@isu ata
ure an inspiration
if u are faced with a mountain,
and cant shift it,walk around it,
go over it.

everything begins with a will
and determination,i can have a million excuses to say why something cant work
or can find a million ways to see how it can work.
To digress a bit.
The same brain Eisten had was the same brain  Hitler had
but the two used it for different purposes.
maybe genetics,maybe society shaped them,but they chose what they would use it for.

When faced with any form of difficulty, look for ways to fix it
If you believe it can be done it can be done
when the wilbur brothers said men could fly no one believed them,am sure they were criticized
but they believed,it wasn't perfect at first but it happened

always stay positive because it actually takes the same effort to stay negative.
Nigerians change your thought pattern.
make paths in the  rivers,build oases in the deserts,
make a bridge in the sky.
there is no stopping us except our self.think oustide the box,dream
a man without hope life will drive u insane
akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #462 on: November 04, 2009, 09:52 AM »

Quote from: AjanleKoko on November 04, 2009, 08:28 AM

I think I fully back Kobojunkie on this one. I don't know why in Nigeria you have personalities who are worshipped, as opposed to espousing collective ideas. We are all shouting Fashola, Fashola, but that in itself shows how weak-minded people Nigerians are. Go anywhere in the developed world and see if anybody is singing the praises of any politician, yet everything works like clockwork. In places like Malaysia, nobody knows the name of the prime minister, yet the nation is well-developed. Only in twisted polities do you always hear the name of the 'leader' everywhere, in newspapers, on TV, on radio, always in your face. This self-worship is disgusting and Nigerians must discourage it. Fashola is our servant, not God.

You're missing the point. I just mentioned Fashola as an example ans it is not
about worshiping anyone. No one said he is God. Be anlytical and dont play to
the gallery

Come to think of it. What is wrong with applauding when a leader does well. I've
never been to Malaysia but I know leaders are applauded in the UK and US
AjanleKoko
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #463 on: November 04, 2009, 09:54 AM »

Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 08:53 AM
ose!, Sauron
and by the way
you guys that talk about TAX, OW much TAX do you guys pay hia in naija dat una dey complain?
no be TAX fashola say make una com pay wey most of una dey carry nose sey waiting dey happen?
and dats even at a point wia TAX recoupment framework has not being tightened and peculiarised to meet the changing(dynamic is d word)
corrupt and thieving mentality of the average Nigerian
yet yu guys complain as if no, the tax you pay is equivalent to kind they pay in UK or the US
find some new excuse to hoist on jo!

I strongly suspect you don't pay any kind of tax, or you work in any organization where no tax is paid to government. Or maybe you don't even have a job.
Where I work, 16% of basic pay is taxed, 20% of allowances are taxed.
I own property, I pay temement rates to Lagos state, and the local goverment even charges for sanitation, radi0 and TV license (was very surprised that tax still exists, the day they showed up to ask for it!)
I run a business, and I pay VAT and witholding tax to the government on my income from that enterprise. Even interest-paying accounts charge witholding tax, if you have a bank account.
Some of us have actually worked abroad, including in the middle east where most allowances are tax-free. So do not lecture anybody or make any meaningless popular statement about tax.
You want to know more about tax?
AjanleKoko
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #464 on: November 04, 2009, 10:07 AM »

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 09:52 AM
You're missing the point. I just mentioned Fashola as an example ans it is not
about worshiping anyone. No one said he is God. Be anlytical and dont play to
the gallery

Come to think of it. What is wrong with applauding when a leader does well. I've
never been to Malaysia but I know leaders are applauded in the UK and US
I have been to a host of other countries, including Malaysia, the UK and US, and many nations in Africa.
What I find is, in those developed nations, you don't see newspaper adverts or articles, billboards, TV and radio programs extolling the greatness of public servants, governors, presidents, and what have you. Where you see stuff like that is mostly in poorly developed nations, mostly in Africa, and I've seen something like that in Jordan as well. You also see that in a lot of authoritarian/autocratic climes, where they basically force the 'leader' into the psyche of the people.
Even the charismatic Obama has gotten his fair share of bashing at home. People need performing public servants, not political superstars, in Nigeria, where not much is working.
 Not yet time for backslapping and other nonsense we read about everywhere.
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #465 on: November 04, 2009, 01:58 PM »

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 05:55 AM
My point is not about just getting new people in there and it is not about putting our trust in individuals and in no way did I say Fashola was a perfect man. Nope. I believe when we put the "right" people in there, we will be in a better position to pull their ears.

Is there really any such thing as the “RIGHT” people? There are folks around the world who started off as the “RIGHT” people but turned into MONSTERS afterwards. In fact, if you are an employer, you will know that the term “RIGHT PEOPLE” is just a phrase as when you get to where the rubber meets road, that is where you find out who has got the substance and who has not. Look around the country for examples of RIGHT people and what they have been doing so far. From Oshiomole, to Yar adua, from Bankole to many others. Don’t you think we have had ample time to learn our lessons by now?

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 05:55 AM
I personally know how well Governors like Fashola and Chime of Enugu have listened to people immediately complaints come in because they are the right people.
Not getting the right people in there and then come later to file complaints I believe will not work as well as getting it right from the onset.

This is the same Chime that many are still expecting to do something meaningful? See why I said this RIGHT PEOPLE idea makes no sense because we could as well say Yar adua was RIGHT PEOPLE by the judgement of the many who voted for him and even defended him over and over. Yes, many right here on Nairaland praised him as RIGHT PEOPLE.

I disagree. It works magic. I have experienced it over and over in my years here in the US. I have seen how the power of the people has worked to overturn elections decisions. Read up what happened yesterday in America please. The people made their voice heard and in a big way.
Look at the case of the ex governor of Illinois.  He started off as RIGHT PEOPLE. The man was adored by many but as soon as the scandal was opened up, people demanded from left and right that there RIGHT PEOPLE, Blagoyevich be removed. Notice how quickly that happened by the way?

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 05:55 AM
Imagine a local government chaiman aspirant, giving you N1,000 vote for him and you do that even when you know he is a thief, what moral justification do you have to call him to order when he is in office.
This is an area I guess we cannot agree on and that is fine with me.

Please, let us stop with this assumption that every Nigerian who votes for the other side was PAID to do so. That is not necessarily the case. Some of them did it because the man worked to, maybe beautify their village with flowers and trees and that to them is a sign that he is RIGHT PEOPLE. Others may have done it because the man provided them next to brand new taxi cabs for the 1000 or so taxi drivers from their local area, and that made him RIGHT PEOPLE to them.

My point is when you go the RIGHT PEOPLE only route, you leave it to individual interpretation, and that is what democracy is all about. However, when you have a system CONTROLLED by the people; a system that allows the people to REMOVE those who are found wanting, then you have a DEMOCRACY that works better for the people.
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #466 on: November 04, 2009, 02:07 PM »

Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 08:53 AM
ose!, Sauron you nw wot i came to discover @ sauron,Akinlabi and , on d otherside-Kobo, lol! most of us dont understnad the true concept of leadership, i heard it from my pastor dis morning
Pastor Biodun Fatoyinbo, "Leadership aint about the title neither is it tied to the fact dat you have people under
you but discovering your purpose/place and CREATING SOLUTIONS AT ANY LEVEL you find yourself den you know you are born to lead"


Good that your pastor has HIS way of defining the word for himself  then!


Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 08:53 AM
like sauron sed, the people shld complain but at the same time understand our place by providing solution at any level
we find ourselves , its called building the nation, i wish i cld get dat POEm we did in secondary school, Building the nation and Mending the wall you shld read it kobo, i ll look for the authors.

It’s funny that you did that in Secondary school, and long after, you are still requesting solutions and implementing next to NIL. Another Problem is when given a solution, you still ask for more without even working to implement those you have previously been given. So I am sorry, I am not here for PRETENTIOUS games to make SELF feel good in anyway.


Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 08:53 AM
i read somewia above wia yu concurred dat naija pple shld die in abject poverty but continue to complain and not betta dia lot by extention bettering d nations lot the U.S you guys rever so well, if during dia time of depression, pple like Henry Ford decided to wiat for Govt enabled environment, America wont be wot it is today, he wont be inspiration to mega superstars dat followed, if pple like Micheal Jackson waited for enabling environment, he wont be the kind of inspiration he wields today, and by the way

I NEVER said anything about waiting so that is all you. If You have not figured out by now that SPEAKING OUT and COMPLAINING about your situation to the right authorities is AKIN to FIGHTING for your right which has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with WAITING for it to be thrown in your lap then I can’t help you.
 Yes, I believe people who are UNWILLING to fight for their own RIGHTS ought to hang themselves because their DNA is not what is needed.

If you feel you would like to be a Henry Ford, then go for it but sorry, DO NOT GO AROUND IMPOSING That dream on others thinking it somehow makes you better than they in some way as CITIZENS. CITIZENS are called to do one MAJOR thing and that is ensure that the government THEY HIRED IS ALWAYS Working for them. Anything else is just INDIVIDUAL choice and has NOTHING to do with  the COUNTRY.
akinalabi (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #467 on: November 04, 2009, 05:30 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 04, 2009, 01:58 PM
Is there really any such thing as the “RIGHT” people? There are folks around the world who started off as the “RIGHT” people but turned into MONSTERS afterwards. In fact, if you are an employer, you will know that the term “RIGHT PEOPLE” is just a phrase as when you get to where the rubber meets road, that is where you find out who has got the substance and who has not. Look around the country for examples of RIGHT people and what they have been doing so far. From Oshiomole, to Yar adua, from Bankole to many others. Don’t you think we have had ample time to learn our lessons by now?

This is the same Chime that many are still expecting to do something meaningful? See why I said this RIGHT PEOPLE idea makes no sense because we could as well say Yar adua was RIGHT PEOPLE by the judgement of the many who voted for him and even defended him over and over. Yes, many right here on Nairaland praised him as RIGHT PEOPLE.

I disagree. It works magic. I have experienced it over and over in my years here in the US. I have seen how the power of the people has worked to overturn elections decisions. Read up what happened yesterday in America please. The people made their voice heard and in a big way.
Look at the case of the ex governor of Illinois.  He started off as RIGHT PEOPLE. The man was adored by many but as soon as the scandal was opened up, people demanded from left and right that there RIGHT PEOPLE, Blagoyevich be removed. Notice how quickly that happened by the way?

Please, let us stop with this assumption that every Nigerian who votes for the other side was PAID to do so. That is not necessarily the case. Some of them did it because the man worked to, maybe beautify their village with flowers and trees and that to them is a sign that he is RIGHT PEOPLE. Others may have done it because the man provided them next to brand new taxi cabs for the 1000 or so taxi drivers from their local area, and that made him RIGHT PEOPLE to them.

My point is when you go the RIGHT PEOPLE only route, you leave it to individual interpretation, and that is what democracy is all about. However, when you have a system CONTROLLED by the people; a system that allows the people to REMOVE those who are found wanting, then you have a DEMOCRACY that works better for the people.


You've held a strong position on this issue and I respect that. . .

But you  still didn't get the "getting involved" and getting the "RIGHT" people analogy I
was trying to pass across or maybe you just decided to twist it to suit your argument.

For instance I did not assume that all Nigerians are paid to do vote. Where did you get
that from?

I made an illustration to make a point that most people are not even morally justified
to make these complaints you're talking about.

I'll leave it at that. . . Trying to discuss with you is a nightmare  Wink
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #468 on: November 04, 2009, 05:45 PM »

Quote from: akinalabi on November 04, 2009, 05:30 PM
You've held a strong position on this issue and I respect that. . .
But you  still didn't get the "getting involved" and getting the "RIGHT" people analogy I was trying to pass across or maybe you just decided to twist it to suit your argument.For instance I did not assume that all Nigerians are paid to do vote. Where did you get that from?
I made an illustration to make a point that most people are not even morally justified to make these complaints you're talking about.
I'll leave it at that.

a)   On the contrary, I completely understand what you mean when YOU say getting INVOLVED, and I am saying I am not for that at all.  I am not for blaming one side and taking sides with the other. I am not for claiming the PDP or any other party is the problem and voting AC or some other one that sprouts tomorrow is the best way. I am not for making myself believe the solution lies in the hands of one or more NEWCOMERS or OLDTIMERS who have yet to get their time at the wheel. I am not for investing my time and effort into making any single person a politician all in hopes that once he wins, he will fix things. I am not for all that and will support no such thing.

In a democracy, which is government by the people for the people, people, again have their INDIVIDUAL ideas of RIGHT PEOPLE and so, it is never going to be the case that we all have the same RIGHT PEOPLE in mind. There are those of us out there who will not vote a Fashola or a Chime  again. Those have their reasons and apparently their RIGHT PEOPLE isn’t Yours.
 
b)    I didn’t assume that YOU believed ALL Nigerians vote that way, I simply stated that we ought to stop making these references considering IT DOES NOT change anything. TAKING BRIBE does not kill my sence of right and wrong. That is a choice I make over and over and can unmake even at the polls. @Sauron offered up the same example earlier, in fact he claimed that was one of the major reasons why we continue to have the problems with electing officials but I disagree because in my heart of hearts, I truly believe that even those who accept bribe do so believing that those they vote for are the RIGHT PEOPLE for them. Collecting the bribe is likely just icing on their cake.

c)   We don’t need moral Justification to make complaints. It is OUR DUTY to do so, we can tackle our conscience on the side. If I vote a person into office, whether I accepted bribe from that person or not, and the person REFUSES to deliver, I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO COMPLAIN.  We just saw something similar happen yesterday in America, in States where democrats and even Obama won. The people SPOKE and the whole world noticed considering theses are states that were known to be democratic, now voting against those they voted for in anger. 

We need to be more proactive and it so happens that we do not need to do much else but our civil DUTY as citizens to get things rolling.
~Sauron~
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #469 on: November 04, 2009, 08:30 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 04, 2009, 05:45 PM
@Sauron offered up the same example earlier, in fact he claimed that was one of the major reasons why we continue to have the problems with electing officials but I disagree because in my heart of hearts, I truly believe that even those who accept bribe do so believing that those they vote for are the RIGHT PEOPLE for them. Collecting the bribe is likely just icing on their cake.

This is so untrue.

Nigerians know the RIGHT people but the love of money and perks have beclouded their senses and they don't care about who governs what?
As long as a Politician is willing to give em bags of rice, they are fine.
Until Nigerians realise Politicians are no Santa Claus. . . . .We will continue to have the same set of rogues ruling us till thy kingdom come.
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #470 on: November 04, 2009, 08:41 PM »

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 04, 2009, 08:30 PM
This is so untrue.

Nigerians know the RIGHT people but the love of money and perks have beclouded their senses and they don't care about who governs what?
As long as a Politician is willing to give em bags of rice, they are fine.
Until Nigerians realise Politicians are no Santa Claus. . . . .We will continue to have the same set of rogues ruling us till thy kingdom come.

Let me try another example to help you with this.  Remember the last elections in Zimbabwe and how many Zimbabweans went out killing their own kind for supposed RIGHT people? Do you remember what happened in Kenya more than a year ago? Are you sure those who CHOSE to do the unthinkable for their RIGHT PEOPLE candidate did not do it because they truly believed they were doing it for the RIGHT CAUSE?

You think those in Nigeria who go out lynching others do not believe deep down that choosing the devil they know (THEIR RIGHT PEOPLE) is better than choosing the angel they do not know?

If you had been here over 2 years ago, and discussed with people who believed Yar adua, were there RIGHT PEOPLE, you would understand what I mean here. There are people who believe what you call BRIBE is OK and that those they collect the bribes from are their RIGHT PEOPLE. 


We are dealing with a democracy here where you CANNOT overturn the WILL of the people; If the people want the thiefs in for another term, you have to honor their wish no matter what you feel. However, if you have a SYSTEM that is strong enough to prosecute even those VOTED in by the people, you have POWER.
~Sauron~
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #471 on: November 04, 2009, 08:54 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on November 04, 2009, 08:41 PM
Let me try another example to help you with this.  Remember the last elections in Zimbabwe and how many Zimbabweans went out killing their own kind for supposed RIGHT people? Do you remember what happened in Kenya more than a year ago? Are you sure those who CHOSE to do the unthinkable for their RIGHT PEOPLE candidate did not do it because they truly believed they were doing it for the RIGHT CAUSE?

They did it because they have been promised hectares of farmlands re-possessed from the white farmers.
How can you compare what happens in that jungle called Zimbabwe to Nigeria? It's either you support Mugabe or DEATH.

Quote
You think those in Nigeria who go out lynching others do not believe deep down that choosing the devil they know (THEIR RIGHT PEOPLE) is better than choosing the angel they do not know?

The devil they know has put some tangible amount of money in their pockets.
They have been supplied the arms and ammo to go and cause mayhem. Give an angry Nigerian cash and weapons and he will become a militant.

Quote
If you had been here over 2 years ago, and discussed with people who believed Yar adua, were there RIGHT PEOPLE, you would understand what I mean here. There are people who believe what you call BRIBE is OK and that those they collect the bribes from are their RIGHT PEOPLE. 

Chai. . . . .Kobojunkie has insulted the intelligence of Nigerians. . . . .
People know what is right but they will ignore because the belly is itchy. Half of the populace are HUNGRY.

Quote
We are dealing with a democracy here where you CANNOT overturn the WILL of the people; If the people want the thiefs in for another term, you have to honor their wish no matter what you feel. However, if you have a SYSTEM that is strong enough to prosecute even those VOTED in by the people, you have POWER.

Nigerians need to be educated.
THAT is ALL. A lot of them don't even know they have sold the souls of their yet unborn kids to the devil by collecting 2000 naira from corrupt politicians.
Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #472 on: November 04, 2009, 10:25 PM »

Quote from: ~Sauron~ on November 04, 2009, 08:54 PM
They did it because they have been promised hectares of farmlands re-possessed from the white farmers.
How can you compare what happens in that jungle called Zimbabwe to Nigeria? It's either you support Mugabe or DEATH.

The devil they know has put some tangible amount of money in their pockets.
They have been supplied the arms and ammo to go and cause mayhem. Give an angry Nigerian cash and weapons and he will become a militant.

Chai. . . . .Kobojunkie has insulted the intelligence of Nigerians. . . . .
People know what is right but they will ignore because the belly is itchy. Half of the populace are HUNGRY.

Nigerians need to be educated.
THAT is ALL. A lot of them don't even know they have sold the souls of their yet unborn kids to the devil by collecting 2000 naira from corrupt politicians.

We can try to explain it all away but the reality is these folks will ALWAYS be there for us to deal with and the sooner we realize that WE CANNOT CHANGE PEOPLE but we can WORK AROUND THEM, the better for all those who at least have the GUTS to stand up and FIGHT to have a better life for themselves and their families.
Isu ata
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #473 on: November 04, 2009, 11:02 PM »

@ kobo

   i am not out here imposing my mindset on any1 we re both here relating arguements and sharing opinions

all i knw and feel is dis and i av reitrated it many times,

all iam saying is, i choose to do sometin by providing a solution to my problems wia my govt has refused to do dis basic tins by extention helping the lil fraction of pple i can help

yur stance is simple, it says my solution is to seek to do my civic responsibilty as a Nigerian, mke sure my voice is heard and felt by that i am doin sometin

  now dis two standpoints is diffrent from some one or bunch of pple wu come around and basterdise and criticise dia govt for everytin without tryn to or show dat while dey basterdise dey re tryn to do summin

wot iam sayin is, dias noting diffrent in both our standpoint all i see is we all have diffrent roles to play in "building the nation" and we will all have diffrent roles to play
now the poster talked bout those wu just complain and collectively they becom a voice of discouragement to soo many pple
atleast from yur opinions so far i see yu wnt a change and yu say it , dat pple shld perfrm dia civic rights
but most pple hia dont and dats d pple d poster is talkin about

we complain and complain and complain

Kobojunkie
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #474 on: November 05, 2009, 10:51 AM »

Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 11:02 PM
@ kobo, i am not out here imposing my mindset on any1 we re both here relating arguements and sharing opinions
all i knw and feel is dis and i av reitrated it many times, all iam saying is, i choose to do sometin by providing a solution to my problems wia my govt has refused to do dis basic tins by extention helping the lil fraction of pple i can help

Actually, you are ASSUMING that your mantra or whatever we can call it that you claim you learnt from watching Indians APPLIES to everyone. NO, it does not. Not everyone believes that should be the case. Sometimes it is JUST OK to criticize without proposing a SOLUTION. I would even say a LOT of TIMES it is just OK to point out the problem and leave the SOLUTION PROFFERRING to those who actually have a CLUE what may be the solution.

Quote from: Isu ata on November 04, 2009, 11:02 PM
yur stance is simple, it says my solution is to seek to do my civic responsibilty as a Nigerian, mke sure my voice is heard and felt by that i am doin sometin now dis two standpoints is diffrent from some one or bunch of pple wu come around and basterdise and criticise dia govt for everytin without tryn to or show dat while dey basterdise dey re tryn to do summin
wot iam sayin is, dias noting diffrent in both our standpoint all i see is we all have diffrent roles to play in "building the nation" and we will all have diffrent roles to play now the poster talked bout those wu just complain and collectively they becom a voice of discouragement to soo many pple atleast from yur opinions so far i see yu wnt a change and yu say it , dat pple shld perfrm dia civic rights but most pple hia dont and dats d pple d poster is talkin about
we complain and complain and complain

I am assuming you lived through the Abacha period in Nigeria’s history, when SPEAKING OUT was condemned and many grew up believing it was wrong to SPEAK OUT about government in any way. People who did were reported to have disappeared just like that; many in society lived in fear of who might be next. Now, we have a country and an avenue to vent (internet) and you don’t want people to VENT? If they do not have the solution or any solution, you would rather they KEEP IT IN and maybe have it blow them up instead? Come on!!! I am sure you are human enough to know that sometimes it is best to LET IT ALL OUT. Even doctors prescribe that as possible cure for stress and frustration.

If you do not enjoy reading VENT-POSTS, then Don’t. If you are one of those who believe that fixing Nigeria has to do with speaking positive at all times, here is news flash for you. Nigeria is about the most religious country on the planet today and so many POSITIVE prayers have been sent up on behalf of that country; we pray at most every function and every avenue we can, yet all that POSITIVE ENERGY has yet to yield much, and I believe we all know why. Does attacking others for not buying into the POSITIVE phooey, make us better Nigerians than they are? NO, it does not.

I say rather than going around to TELL PEOPLE what to do and try to CAJOLE them into thinking as you do, why not SHOW THEM instead that your way is better? When I say SHOW, I mean SHOW THEM WITH ACTIONS from your end that YIELD DESIRABLE results.
agitator
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #475 on: November 05, 2009, 11:30 AM »

Most times I don't feel like even responding. May be some peeps don't know that Nigeria has highest number of managers (manage car designed for maximum five passengers to accomodate 8-10 passengers depending on area, generators for every house - more for face me i face you because each room has one, if kerosine is not available use of saw dust for cooking - some ingenious nigerians even invented a special stove, arranging for personal boreholes, etc the list is endless.  Survival by all means possible.

What is the problem of the poster? People moaning and complaining, using their personal money, at least, $2000 dollars to seek for better life elsewhere - don't know how this is a problem of the government? is there any subsidy given by the government to those travelling out to seek greener pastures eventhough it may not be greener than imagined. 

The peep who said his uncle started a business in Nigeria, why is his uncle's family still outside nigeria? Can't he provide accommodation for them here since he has made his community better, or is the better not good enough for his family?

Even the politicians, all their children are being educated abroad, their wives give birth abroad. Is medical check-up rocket science that is not available or cannot be provided in Nigeria?

People see a way of survival and  have taken their destiny in their own hands yet you come here to berate them.
ocelot2006 (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #476 on: November 05, 2009, 11:34 PM »

ROSSIKE, EXCELLENT POST!!!'about time someone tell these idiots!
munky
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #477 on: November 07, 2009, 11:44 PM »

Anybody calling Nigerians lazy idiots is a fool, there is nothing wrong in complaining and asking questions, Nigerians are not lazy, everyday you see gala sellers on the road, bola boys, bus conductors, carpenters all working under very inhuman conditions and you still call them lazy, poster you should apologize to Nigerians,
You have seen the businesses that collapse cos no power, excessive taxation and unbalanced opportunities, you talk about Chinese investors. do you know what their Government and banks are giving to them to go and invest, Go to any Nigerian bank and ask for loan and hear their reply, If you dont belong to a certain family or group, nothing for you, Those God have blessed should not look down on others and call them fools because they ask questions, Take for instance, the Governor of Imo state banned okada, without considering the riders, many students in Universities are sponsored by okada riders, and he still increased school fees, what the hell,
you should be happy that Nigerians are very patient, if not, half the things that happen in Nigeria can never happen in other places or there would be war,
that said, the people I dont support are the ones that dont try at all but sit in one place and complain,
Chudi-Oji (m)
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #478 on: November 08, 2009, 07:01 PM »

Nigeria has been losing an estimated $190.650 billion annually due to the non-registration of crude oil lifting vessels under an international practice called free-flagging. Experts in the industry have said that for rapid and strategic development of the industry and boost in the Nigerian economy, in line with global trends, the country should adopt the registration of Nigerian free-flagged vessels which attracts some fees.
In a memorandum submitted to the House of Representatives on the Petroleum Industry Bill (PIB), it is estimated that there are over half a million vessels involved in crude oil lifting globally and it costs a shipping company between $1,500 and $3,000 to register its vessels for services in the free-flag areas.
Nigeria is yet to join the free-flag zone and has therefore not benefited from this money spinning sector of the petroleum industry.
The memorandum co-authored by two oil firms - Messrs MO Energy Limited and Petro Star Nigeria Limited - revealed that the Federal Government could generate a minimum of $75 million annually from registration of flags alone which are then hoisted on the ocean-going vessels.
Mr. Jeff Okoli, who presented the memorandum on behalf of the group, said besides the flag registration, the free-flagging had other multiplier effects on the economy because of its potential of generating employment opportunities and creating wealth for Nigerians.
“Other areas of value added activities include monthly supply of about 3,000 litres of prima and 5,000 litres of marine finishing coat per vessel on board monthly, paints, manpower for each vessel, under the IMO (International Maritime Organisation) regulation, to which flag states must ensure compliance. This would also generate millions of dollars and high volume of jobs for Nigeria and her citizens.
“Apart from the financial and job analysis of the benefits accruable to the government and people of Nigeria, it would also lead to the development of Nigeria’s shipping tanker fleet, associated transfer of technology, control of the mechanics of sea transportation and capacity development,” the memorandum said.
According to Okoli, these would ensure better awareness of market trends and afford Nigeria the strategic advantage of controlling the direction of its oil trade. It would also enhance national, regional and international strategic considerations; freight supply would also be assured in emergencies such as international or regional conflicts, blockades or sabotage.
He said countries such as United States, Britain, Iran and Iraq are good examples where vessel-flagging opportunities have paid off.
In order to actualise this area of business, the group said, the Federal Government should ensure through policy mechanism or legislation, that cargo owners give preference to Nigerian flagged vessels to load cargo abroad.
Okoli said by adopting the policy, government would be encouraging ship owners to take up Nigerian flags, reduce demurrage and discourage foreign domination of the crude oil lifting business.
ROSSIKE
Re: Nigerians Should Stop Moaning And Roll Up Their Sleeves
« #479 on: November 09, 2009, 04:41 AM »

munky said:

Quote
Anybody calling Nigerians lazy idiots is a fool, there is nothing wrong in complaining and asking questions, Nigerians are not lazy, everyday you see gala sellers on the road, bola boys, bus conductors, carpenters all working under very inhuman conditions and you still call them lazy, poster you should apologize to Nigerians

I've not called Nigerians lazy. I just think many Nigerians are unduly hostile and pessimistic towards the nation to the point where it becomes counter-productive.

Quote
You have seen the businesses that collapse cos no power, excessive taxation and unbalanced opportunities, you talk about Chinese investors. do you know what their Government and banks are giving to them to go and invest, Go to any Nigerian bank and ask for loan and hear their reply, If you dont belong to a certain family or group, nothing for you

You see this is the sort of nonsense I'm talking about. You live in Manchester UK, yet you JUST KNOW that there is no loan for you in Nigeria because of the utterly spurious reasons you mentioned.

Fact is that a great many Nigerians have been able to access loans, without ''knowing'' anybody, or belonging to ''a certain family or group'', but by simply presenting a credible, well researched business plan to a lending institution.

If you've tried and failed, don't raise your hands and curse the country,  You return to the drawing board and tie up the loose ends in your plan. Get a consultant to look over your plan, and your projections etc, get qualified and experienced personnel onto your company directorship list, provide clear evidence of business profitability, and you will get a loan in today's Nigeria.

But if you have the mindset of ''I will never get a loan because I don't know the right people and everyone is so corrupt and etc etc'',  you've virtually placed the noose around your neck from the outset.

For me THAT'S the problem. Far too many Nigerians by their negativity, have placed a noose around their necks.
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