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trini_girl (f)
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@trini_girl,
I will take this a little further. Sex isn't worth it if done outside the confines of marriage. Hebrews 13:4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
and where does the Bible say sex outside of marriage is dishonourable, that is, premarital sex as I outlined it on this thread. We already established that fornication is sex with prostitutes and other types of illicit sex. Also enlighten me on what an "undefiled" marriage bed might be. |
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trini_girl (f)
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Since when did it become a hard and fast rule for everone that a woman "in touch with her sexuality" makes a better partner? What happened to your "sex does not make a woman"?
Let me clarify. A woman who is in touch with her sexuality makes a better sexual partner, not a better wife. What defines a woman "in touch with her sexuality"? Is a virgin out of touch with her sexuality simply because she chooses to remain so? Obviously! And while is her choice to do so, her sexual development after marriage will greatly depend on her spiritual beliefs and what she believes her "wifely" duties should be.
As far as we know, there are no statistics that prove women who indulge in pre-marital sex in "loving" relationships are much better partners sexually.
Since we are speculating here, as far as I know, women who are prude in bed whether before or after marriage, have a higher tendency to push their husband to having affairs with other women and if not, puts a strain on their relationship on the whole. Again, it's personal choice. I never said I condone promiscuity. I just defined fornication the way the Bible showed it in scripture. |
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davidylan (m)
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A few things to ponder: Let me clarify. A woman who is in touch with her sexuality makes a better sexual partner, not a better wife.
What makes a woman stay in touch with her sexuality? Having pre-marital sexual experience? There are tons of prostitutes who will make excellent sexual partners. I'm not sure i want them as wives. Obviously! And while is her choice to do so, her sexual development after marriage will greatly depend on her spiritual beliefs and what she believes her "wifely" duties should be. Since when did it become imperative for women to begin their "sexual development" outside marriage and with several men she is not likely to marry? Is there any proof that virgins have a stunted sexual development in marriage? Since we are speculating here, as far as I know, women who are prude in bed whether before or after marriage, have a higher tendency to push their husband to having affairs with other women and if not, puts a strain on their relationship on the whole.
Very right. Whether a woman will end up a prude in bed does not depend on how much sexual experience she accumulates before marriage. |
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trini_girl (f)
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A few things to ponder:
What makes a woman stay in touch with her sexuality? Having pre-marital sexual experience? There are tons of prostitutes who will make excellent sexual partners. I'm not sure i want them as wives.
If a woman chooses to have sex before she gets married, then she at least should have an idea of what sex is about. Nobody's t talking about prositutes. We are saying the same thing. However, a woman who doesn't know what sex feels like at all can hardly determine her likes and dislikes or how to please her husband until he teaches her, which is what men love, to be considered sexual gods to their partner.  Since when did it become imperative for women to begin their "sexual development" outside marriage and with several men she is not likely to marry? Is there any proof that virgins have a stunted sexual development in marriage?
Please quote where I said anything was "imperative" or is that how you interpret the word "choice"? Very right. Whether a woman will end up a prude in bed does not depend on how much sexual experience she accumulates before marriage. Thank you. |
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Reverend (m)
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I find it highly entertaining that so many people use the book of fairy tales (the bible) as a tool against others. Good Christians are supposed to live and let live, turn the other cheek and those of you without sin cast the first stone etc etc etc, So many of you have lost the meaning and supposed spirit of Christianity. You use your knowledge of the bible for one warped reason, to try and control others, manipulate and make people feel bad. Do what we say or you will not go to heaven! God will strike you down. Christianity is the religion of fear! They use the book of fairy tales (bible) as a weapon and nothing more. Even if heaven does exists, would you really want to spend time in eternity with the likes of: Mr. Pataki  TayoD Davidylan Just think about it? A place full of frustrated virgins, moaning minnies and finger pointing sin mongers.  These people are poor mislead souls and the sad fact is that outside of Mr. Pataki they are quite inteligent! The saddest fact is that they are wasting their time here on earth preparing themselves for something that wont be there when they die! Here cometh the worms |
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tobby1 (m)
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there is nothing like pre marital sex fornication is fornication.it is only in this world we are using words to hide their true meaning
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ricadelide (m)
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I find it highly entertaining that so many people use the book of fairy tales (the bible) as a tool against others. Good Christians are supposed to live and let live, turn the other cheek and those of you without sin cast the first stone etc etc etc,
i have to join in this discussion. @ reverend, first, with all i've heard from you, am surprised you call yourself reverend. you must hold yourself in very high esteem. since you've made it known that in all your 'reverence' you consider the bible a book of fairy tales, i wonder why you think you have an inkling of how good christians are 'supposed to live'. In your hypocrisy, you come here and try to dictate how christians are supposed to live, and then condemn them for trying to air their own opinions. it seems to me you believe that you alone are allowed to have an opinion and others aren't. you don't believe in christianity, yet u're trying to 'correct' christians in their understanding of 'the meaning and supposed spirit of christianity'. what double-standard is that? in case you didnt bother to read the first comment on the thread before opening your mouth, let me direct you to it. the first poster made a comment using the bible as a reference. any reader of and believer in the scriptures will be quick to respond to anyone using the bible as a reference point for double-talk. that is why there were many responses from a biblical perspective. and not because they are bible-thumping like your guilt-tripped conscience has directed you to say. if you have issues against christians or the bible, if they are making you feel guilty, it only shows you have a problem, and it would be wise of you to address that problem fast, rather than taking the approach u've taken. God help you. afterall, if heaven is non-existent, christianity should be harmless to you, and it shouldn't be a problem ignoring it, unless of course (and i believe this is the case) you're not very sure, |
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9ja4eva (m)
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Please this topic its k jare.Whats dere to prove again.
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One
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I am of the opinion that before 2 people get married, they should at least have a relationship for some time. During this period, they can discover a lot about themselves including if they can actally live together as man and wife. One critical issue is sexual satisfaction. Much as we like to avoid this area, it nevertheles, is one of the bedrocks of any relationship. Sex is exteremly important and if you get stuck with a partner who cannot satify you, its only a matter of time before the cracks will start showing. I once had this girlfriend who "did not feel a thing" during sex. I actually was planning to marry her until I found she was "frigid". No matter what I did, she just did not feel a thing and would jut lay there like a log of wood. I was always very frustrated. In the end we parted ways. I mean why would I be with a woman who cannot satify me. I don't want to play outside once I settle down.
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trini_girl (f)
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I am of the opinion that before 2 people get married, they should at least have a relationship for some time. During this period, they can discover a lot about themselves including if they can actally live together as man and wife. One critical issue is sexual satisfaction. Much as we like to avoid this area, it nevertheles, is one of the bedrocks of any relationship. Sex is exteremly important and if you get stuck with a partner who cannot satify you, its only a matter of time before the cracks will start showing. I once had this girlfriend who "did not feel a thing" during sex. I actually was planning to marry her until I found she was "frigid". No matter what I did, she just did not feel a thing and would jut lay there like a log of wood. I was always very frustrated. In the end we parted ways. I mean why would I be with a woman who cannot satify me. I don't want to play outside once I settle down.
Very well said One. |
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mikoo (m)
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trini_girl, God is merciful and forgives our wrongs as long as we admit our sins. Fornication is what it means. Don't change the meaning of it ok. Pre-marital sex is wrong! If u can't resist then u will burn. But God is always willing to help, pray to Him through our blessed saviour Jesus Christ and pray for me as well. Cheers baby.
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TV01 (m)
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Very well said One. Hi TG, So within the context of your long-term, committed, monogamous, heterosexual etc. etc. relationship, the One' example as outlined swings? When it is patently clear that going by this example, one can assign an arbitary (and of course changing) level of sexual compatability requirement. This as you can plainly see is a serial phillanderers charter. Presumably your approval means you believe no sin was committed here? Trini, you are muddled on this one. I'm even more bemused as women are obviously more vulnerable and at greater risk? God bless |
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trini_girl (f)
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Hi TG,
So within the context of your long-term, committed, monogamous, heterosexual etc. etc. relationship, the One' example as outlined swings? When it is patently clear that going by this example, one can assign an arbitary (and of course changing) level of sexual compatability requirement.
This as you can plainly see is a serial phillanderers charter. Presumably your approval means you believe no sin was committed here?
Trini, you are muddled on this one. I'm even more bemused as women are obviously more vulnerable and at greater risk?
God bless
TV, From where in One's articulate opinion did you erroneously devise that he was on his way to becoming a philanderer? Sometimes I wonder about you. You go through rejoinders with a fine tooth comb and draw conclusions out of thin air! If you want to talk of sin, which is the bigger sin. Marrying the frigid girl and eventually committing adultery and/or getting divorced, or finding out before hand and making a decision to break it off. The guy even said he was planning to marry her now. Ah ah! He did not say he was sampling. Women are at greater risk of what. Each person is responsible for their on life and the choices they make. Both men and women can be at risk of a number of things in any relationship. God Bless |
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One
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Thanks for coming to my rescue Trini_girl. A lot many people are too fast to cast guilt even when they know in their hearts the truth. Its like playing to the gallery. Anyway, we are in a free world where any person can believe what he likes. Personally I don't believe in suppression or self denial. I have to check out any girl I intend marrying pysically, spiritually, intellectually etc. Its a two way thing. While I check her out, she is doing the same on me.
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goodguy (m)
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@ trini_girl: You are so blind, confused and deluded. So much hogwash spewed as a result of the Orthodox dead letter church. So really much for claiming to be a "Christian" and calling Jesus your "pastor". (no mind me o) Okay, on a very serious note now, just give it up, trini_girl. Your argument on this issue is very ludicrous at its best. You keep playing with words and turning them around just to suit your stance. You are even making it worse by attaching adjectives/conditions in an attempt to appear right. You keep saying and emphasizing on "long term, monogamous committed relationship", which is even beginning to sound like a tongue twister to me. Pray tell, what and who defines how "long" a term is in a relationship? Long enough till when you're tired of each other? Which really even matters to you: the 'level' of committment or the 'duration' of it? Honestly, I'm really having a tough time understanding your stance here. I look forward to reading your reply. Regards. |
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TV01 (m)
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From where in One's articulate opinion did you erroneously devise that he was on his way to becoming a philanderer? Sometimes I wonder about you. You go through rejoinders with a fine tooth comb and draw conclusions out of thin air! I didn't say the One per se, but I said it could be used that way. However, having said that; I am of the opinion that before 2 people get married, they should at least have a relationship for some time. During this period, they can discover a lot about themselves including if they can actally live together as man and wife. One critical issue is sexual satisfaction. Can you see from the above that because of the subjectiveness inherent in this kind of premise this is a philanderes charter? You live together and/or have a full-blown intimate relationship to test percieved satisfaction/compatibility? Presumably you understand that relationships no matter the initial joy, mutual attraction, or compatibility have to be continually worked on ? Even worldy statistics all testify against dry run marriages. It's universally known that they lead to a greater degree of failure in real ones. The outline for living together as man and wife are in their essence depenant on understanding and maturity (assuming a shared faith). When one introduces subjective (unquantifiables?) such as sexual compatability, any solid foundation is removed. Who determines SC? What if one thinks yes and theother no? How can either be sure if they both happen to be virgins? What of the natural human urge (covetousness) to try/have more just in case? What man or woman wouldn't find a 30 year old version of their 50 year old spouse more sexually attractive (and hence compatible)? Not to mention that you overlook the fact that mutual satisfaction can be worked on, improved and heigtens over time and with deeper love, mutual respect and understanding. Is frigidity the end of the road? No, counselling, deliverance, therapy, prayer are all available. You really are floundering here and not thinking through your arguments  What if during a marriage a man becomes impotent? Is that leave to leave (sorry, not punny )? You seem to have fallen for the worldy notion that sex is the basis for a relationship. No, no, no. There are loads of people most of us could (would even) have sex with, but that does not testify to our compatibility in a marriage union. Resort to divine order girl. Love a persons spirit, character and you'll love their body (if indeed that continues to be a major concern). If you want to talk of sin, which is the bigger sin. Marrying the frigid girl and eventually committing adultery and/or getting divorced, or finding out before hand and making a decision to break it off. Answered. The guy even said he was planning to marry her now. Ah ah! He did not say he was sampling. I can be the most naive person, but leave that out. He was not planning to marry. He was planning to marry on the subjective, personal (selfish), basis that he was satisfied. So yes, he was sampling. Like I press Avo's in the mart prior to buying. If it tests firm I buy it, if it does not I put it back (some other poor sap can have it). Sometimes, the first one is fine, other times I press a few (some more than once). Women are at greater risk of what. Each person is responsible for their on life and the choices they make. Both men and women can be at risk of a number of things in any relationship. Okay, I can be naive, but you are just being obtuse. Are you aware of the the figures for STD transmission from men to women and vice versa? In the event of a child outside wedlock, who is more likely to have their lifes disrupted? Who becomes primary carer. If the relationship fails after that which gender is likely to be worse off financially. What of the societal stigma, who bears the brunt and consequences of that? Thanks for coming to my rescue Trini_girl. A lot many people are too fast to cast guilt even when they know in their hearts the truth. Its like playing to the gallery. Anyway, we are in a free world where any person can believe what he likes. Personally I don't believe in suppression or self denial. I have to check out any girl I intend marrying pysically, spiritually, intellectually etc. Its a two way thing. While I check her out, she is doing the same on me.
TG didn't rescue you, you are floundering together and in serious danger of dragging each other under  . The checking out is legitimate, but it stops short of physical union. That is to join, to effectively wed. Mature adults (Christians even) can discuss SC. If you are true any issues will surface. And if they are worth it you will wait and/or walk with them while they are resolved. What of the things you can't check out, or are not readily apparent or currently manifest? Say fertility? A genetic condition that shows in later age? Are there clauses to the commitment to cover such instances? Pre-nups anyone? If the "commitment" is valid, what need covenant(marriage)? One last thing, Self-Control is a fruit of the Spirit. Denial of worldly lust is a demand on followers of Christ. Both enabled by the power of the Holy Spirit. Nonsense & ingredient Don't get me started! God bless |
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IBEXY (m)
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Your judgement is one dimensional in that you look at every issue from your christian belief. Remember this is a public forum having members from every conceivable religion. Your narrow sense of judgement makes you think everyone should live by your religious doctrine or be condemned to hell.
Bring yourself back to reality and quit dreaming and describing ideals that are almost non existent. How many men or women live by the ideal they proffess and flash on the outside for all to see. How many men did not have sex with their wives before marriage. How many marriages break down everyday due to sexual imcompatibility or disatisfaction?
Are you aware that even in naija, some cultures want to see a woman get pregnant or proove her fertility before ever getting married? Call it achaic but who would want to go into a union to regret later? Its your sense of self preservasion coming into play. When the chips are down, people will always discard any fancy ideals and live by their instincts.
You want to say its selfish on the part of the man? Hello! people go into relationships for selfish reasons anyway. What right has a lady to seek for "Mr Right". Who is "Mr Right" anyway - of course, a man who meets with her very selfish specifications. Ask her, you will see sexual satisfaction is part of Mr right's qualities (apart from money, confidence etc). How many people married a man or woman because he is in the right proffession or his "future looks bright"? Why don't we damn the selection criteria and take whoever comes along?
And if you think its only sex (especially before marriage) that is responsible for widespread VD. Damn! you are wrong again. Even happily married people get VD (but how?). AIDS can be transmitted via other channels that are not sexual. If you wnat to condemn sex before marriage, leave VD out of it because it can happen before or after marrige.
This is the real world homey. Much as it may be wrong by your doctrines and beliefs, its what happens everyday.
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ironclad
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Hello,
My girlfriend and I have recently had a "debate" as to whether or not sex before sin is a marriage. Just for starters, we have concluded that we will save sex for marriage, whether pre-marrital sex is wrong or not. As for proof against pre-marrital sex, I have found no explicit statements in the Bible even regarding the topic, most likely because it was not an issue. In the Hebrew culture, pre-marital sex was almost non-existent during Bible times. This was primarily because it was the fathers' choices as to who would marry who, and women were advised by all to stay virgin until wedlock. Pre-marital sex was introduced by non-Jews. Does this make it a sin then? I say no, many others say no, but there are many who say yes. Ultimately, it comes down to talking to God and getting an answer from Him. The Bible is a universal guide to life and will never be outdated, but it does not explicitely mention every problem and solution. Instead, it refers us to God, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit on all problems not explicitely mentioned. That means that we are not to take the word of ANYONE except Him. If someone backs up everything he/she says with scripture, go look up the scripture in its full context. If it is foggy even in the Bible, pray. No matter what, God will give you an answer, even if you don't like or understand it.
Now on the subject of language.
Pre-marrital sex is sex before marriage. (i found no discussion of this in Bible)
Adultery is a sin, and it is sex between two people when at least one is married to someone else.(according to Bible)
Sex outside of marriage is a sin, but is never clearly explained. (according to Bible)
Fornication is a sin (according to Bible), and it is a word whose true meaning was lost. However, in its immediate context one may conclude that it is specifically relating to sex with prostitutes. Unfortunately, because it cannot be directly translated, one may semi-successfully relate fornication to other sinful sexual acts. Because fornication is such a hot subject, I advise any who have not researched it on his/her own to do so immediately, and not just take the word of someone, pastor, friend, parent, sibling or otherwise.
Sexual immorality is a sin (accoding to Bible), but is never clearly defined. Hoever, in its immediate context, one can conclude that it is relating to either fornication or impure acts regarding the goddess of love.
Why have I used no Biblical examples? Because we are all capable of researching all of this on our own. DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT! Look it up, pray, and consult people. I am a Christian and I believe at least some of you are too. If you are not a Christian I still advise the same. No matter what, God loves us all, Christian or not. To assume is to be wrong (I think so at least) and is dangerous for all. Non-Christians should not attack Christians, and vise versa. According to the Bible, the only way to Heaven is through Jesus Christ, so ultimately the title of Christian means nothing without the decision to follow through, and I hope you all have/do. I am not writing this to attack anyone, or even to disprove anyone. I am merely writing this to educate, enlighten, encourage, and even just have a good time with anyone willing to reply to me. I am not an ordaned minister, a certified teacher, or a philosiphor. I am merely an 18-year-old guy who has done his homework. If you see ANYTHING wrong with what I have said, it is because I do not know everything, I'm not perfect, and have missed something somewhere. So if anyone has anything to add, do so. I ask that no one reply with any ill intent toward me though, as I have none for you.
One last note. The Bible says to test all things except God himself. Is it possible that the church has taught wrong doctrine for years? Is it possible that people have assumed their own doctrine? As long as Jesus is your one true love, you follow him, and accept him as your savior, then just search for the truth. Since Jesus is truth, we need the truth, and sometimes the truth comes at a steep price. It is time for the world to change and it is up to those in search of the truth to make sure that the world indeed changes (since God told us to).
(please forgive me for writing so extensively)
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ironclad
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To IBEXY:
Ibexy, everyone's point of view is just that, point of view. In "the real world" it doesn't matter what anyone's point of view is. Only the truth matters. An argument is not "one dimensional" because it revolves around one's religion. An argument is only one dimensional if the person(s) arguing condemns the other side of the argument without thinking it through. Also, in the end, because nearly all religions or belief systems (i.e. Christianity, Islamic, Hindu, creationism, evolution, atheism, pantheism, agnostic, etc) contradict one another, they cannot all be right. If someone thinks that is possible, he/she only contradicts himself/herself. Is it possible for more than one to be right? The number would have to be very low. Am I arguing as a Christian? Yes, but I argue for what I find to be the truth. Are you arguing against Christianity, or are you arguing for what you understand as truth?
To EVERYONE:
Remember, as Ibexy said, this is the real world and things don't happen they way we want them to. That is why we should all use our skills, intelligence, and communication to work together on not only discovering the truth, but ensuring that everyone else learns the truth as well, and unless you have thoroughly tested and researched what you believe to be true, don't teach it. If there are no contradictions, then something must be right. If there is a universal application, then something must be right. And remember, just because something may seem to contradict doesn't mean it does, it just means that you have to research deeper.
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Ollie39
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Ironclad: good on you. If you decide to wait I applaud you and wish you good luck.
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Roadblock
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Trini girl, if you are to go by your understanding then No form of sexual intercourse out side marriage is wrong as long as it is not with the prostitutes. Let us assume you are still very young, say about 20 years of age, and like most people you end up having about 5- 10 relationships before finally getting the man of your dream. Are you saying sleeping with those ten people is not wrong? Even though at that time you had thought they were going to lead to marriage. Trini let us face the fact, It is not the name given it that determines whether it is wrong or not. Even without bringing religion into this, it used to be the custom of some parts of the world to excommunicate anyone that indulged in sexual acts before marriage. I will leave you with one last question. What is the purpose of sex? Why did God create it? 1. If it was for just for the fun of it , then it wont be wrong to have it with anybody. (2) if it is for procreation, then you have only have it with your husband for the purpose of creating babies. (3) Lastly, if it is to bring closeness and cordiality between two parties then you can chose to have it with anyone you intend to have a close relationship with which will make it ok with anybody even the so called prostitutes. You will agree with me the kind of closeness that can be developed through sex is meant for the married. Husband and wife. Have you ever wondered why some people find it difficult to leave relationships where they get beaten blue-black every time? It is simply because their soul is tied to that relationship. That is what sex does. I am sure you will not like to tie your soul to a wrong person.
Final word- Premarital sex lands people where they don't like. It rids a relationship of trust. If I can sleep with you before marriage just because I am your friend and i believe I love you, then anybody can sleep with you as long as they give you the kind of attention that I gave you. A better looking guy, more comfortable, and more caring guy will do the magic. Also fore the guy, he can sleep with any girl that he feels comfortable with and all these continue after wedding.
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dremoney (m)
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Trini girl, if you are to go by your understanding then No form of sexual intercourse out side marriage is wrong as long as it is not with the prostitutes. Let us assume you are still very young, say about 20 years of age, and like most people you end up having about 5- 10 relationships before finally getting the man of your dream. Are you saying sleeping with those ten people is not wrong? Even though at that time you had thought they were going to lead to marriage. Trini let us face the fact, It is not the name given it that determines whether it is wrong or not. Even without bringing religion into this, it used to be the custom of some parts of the world to excommunicate anyone that indulged in sexual acts before marriage. I will leave you with one last question. What is the purpose of sex? Why did God create it? 1. If it was for just for the fun of it , then it wont be wrong to have it with anybody. (2) if it is for procreation, then you have only have it with your husband for the purpose of creating babies. (3) Lastly, if it is to bring closeness and cordiality between two parties then you can chose to have it with anyone you intend to have a close relationship with which will make it ok with anybody even the so called prostitutes. You will agree with me the kind of closeness that can be developed through sex is meant for the married. Husband and wife. Have you ever wondered why some people find it difficult to leave relationships where they get beaten blue-black every time? It is simply because their soul is tied to that relationship. That is what sex does. I am sure you will not like to tie your soul to a wrong person.
Final word- Premarital sex lands people where they don't like. It rids a relationship of trust. If I can sleep with you before marriage just because I am your friend and i believe I love you, then anybody can sleep with you as long as they give you the kind of attention that I gave you. A better looking guy, more comfortable, and more caring guy will do the magic. Also fore the guy, he can sleep with any girl that he feels comfortable with and all these continue after wedding.
very well said. an intelligent contribution. guess it all depends on ow we get the picture individually. |
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sweetchick (f)
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Hey Roadblock,
Well said. As for me, I think sex should be sacred but unfortunately, it has been made so cheap in our generation. So many people now believe in instant sexual gratifification. Anyone who saves sex till marriage is now considered naive. To be 'hip' one has to be sexually experienced. No wonder sexually transmitted diseases are on the increase.
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mellow (m)
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There is no even statistics to prove that prostitudes
make the best sex partners.
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sweetchick (f)
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It has always been my personal opinion that the sexual revolution was started by a man so that men could indulge in sex without committing
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dominobaby (f)
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Are peeps still on this issue?
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maryD (f)
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girl forget about all that i live in Greece and believe me Greeks are the more corrupt they will try to find every way to prove that right is wrong.What u are saying is about Greeks that worshiped the 12 Gods of olympous. For the good of ur soul believe what the bible says.
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Reverend (m)
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Hail Zeus the real Jesus  |
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ricadelide (m)
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attention seeker  |
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Roadblock
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It has always been my personal opinion that the sexual revolution was started by a man so that men could indulge in sex without committing
Sweetchick, what do you mean? can you explain. |
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jesusfreak (f)
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Pre -marital sex is Fornication in the Christian context! no matter how much you try to paint it right, what is wrong will always be wrong! no one is perfect and its true that many young people have had sex outside marriage but if u make a mistake, the logical thing to do will be to learn and not dwell on that mistake or try to justify yourself. the devil makes it semm impossible to wait till ure married but he's wrong its possible to wait till ure married because that's when it's RIGHT! |
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