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TV01 (m)
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To summarise Malina's article:
Malina asks if the word group 'porneia' covered all the meanings attributed to it in this contemporary time, or are these later usages placed onto the word group in later times and later cultures?
The clear meanings are: cultic sexual practices, idolatory, incest and, commercial harlotry.
Other meanings attributed to the word group are doubtful and disputable in general usage. Using scripture to interpret scripture, Malina adds the sins of homosexuality, beastiality, sex during the menstrual period, and sacrifice to Molok (mixed marriages) from the Levitical lists (perhaps adding polygamy at a stretch).
At no point, prior to the 2nd century did porneia mean pre-betrothal, non-commercial, non-cultic, hetrosexual intercourse, and even in the second century it was considered so only by a single Jewish rabbi.
Hi JohnFOM, Appreciate your outlining your denominational/traditional experience, and additionally the effort to read through the whole thread. Read your posts with interest and noted the article you referenced. Re the last paragraph in particualr and specifically "pre-betrothal" Would that suggest that the author considered sex even without betrothal permissable? I know discussions tend to morph, so whilst this thread is titled; "Pre-marital sex is not fornication", we are additionally asking "Is pre-marital sex sinful?" I don't really care to argue historical semantics, so I'm more concerned as to the second point, as that is something that impacts one's day-to-day Christian walk. Why would it be better to marry than to burn, if it was fine to just go ahead and have sex? If the marriage bed is undefiled, what (apart from infidelity & deviancy as outlined), is defiling sexual behaviour? A further point about "Consent & Consumation". I noted the historical agreement that marriage takes place upon consent. Again, I wouldn't argue the point too fervently, but I would say this. In OT times, rape of an unbetrothed women meant an enforced marriage. Noting also that Isaac "went into his wife" at first meeting (though I'd agree that she had already consented). So I'm not sure that consent has to be first, or is the tipping point. Personally, and in this day and age, apart, so as not to cause offence, I'd suggest consent, ceremony and then consumation. And probably advise consent before consumation in all cases  ! Like I said, enjoyed the article, can't say I agreed with it all. neither can I say I feel compelled to live be the ruling of any historical precedent or any person outside scripture. God bless TV |
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denex
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@ricadelide
you know these days, the Bible changes so fast that I haven't been keeping up. So they've changed that part from "virgin" to "virgin daughter". Abeg no vex. I wasn't aware. You know these things happen so fast. I'll get an updated one soon though. Thanks for the info.
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MsEbz (f)
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Fornication has religious undertones so to me pre-marital sex isn't fornication, I don't fornicate, I have sex. I hate the word fornicate, it makes you sound like a dirty h to the o or dirty person. I'm 21 and far from a virgin, not a ho and not a fornicator but I'm sexually active, I keep safe and don't really sleep around and i'm fine with what I do, I'm not married, never have been and might not get married for a few years if I decide I want to.
Fornicator sounds like someone who humps anyone w/o discrimination.
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Chiekezi (m)
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If fornication is sex between consenting unmarried partners, then fornication is pre-marital sex, the evidence is in the definition you provided.
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karli4nia (m)
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tirna girl or whatever u call yourself. i hope you are not trying to find justification for your whatever deeds u may ave comitted. greek or no greek, english or no english-the bilble rightly informs that fornication is sinful, u can call it premarital sex.But i also want a truth to be noted, that one has once fornicated doesnt translate to the fact that he/she ia a fornicator.The one to be called a fornicator is one that makes practice of fornication or habitually fornicates with impunity.
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abanna (f)
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hi,
i know say e no esay 2 hold body so d need 4 all manner of rationalisation BUT d truth is pre-marital sex is wrong,has consequences(spiritual,emotional,social,etc) and IT IS A SIN .
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otuwe (f)
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The issue is not whether pre-marital sex and fornication is thesame!!! THE KOKO is that both are SINS.
The questions is; WHAT IS MARRIAGE, pre-marital sex and fornication?
Having one or multiple sex partners outside marriage is fornication!!!
Pre-marital sex is as the word suggests!!!
Marrriage is a union between a man and a woman!!! but must it be between a paster,judge et al. when two adults agree within themselves, aint they married. sex in the process, is it a sin because they have not presented themselves before a pastor, a capital NO.
Let us not deceive ourslves!!!
kudos
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doyenn (m)
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trini_girl
we don't need to give it another name or even find meaning to a word that's already clear but I would tell you clear and simple that sex outside mariage is a firnication.the being that you have not been binded 2gether by the expected parties of people.Let me break down for you,mariage is an agreement b/w you and the guy but the agreement b/w both must be stamped and seal by some parties of people so that it'd not be a secret affair b/w both of you.
it's a compulsory thing that your father gives his consent to the mariage and that he agrees to give you out to the guy before anything happens b/w both of you. I am glad some people here agrees that it's fornication but what do they think of a pregnancy that came up during this fornication. it's a topic for another day.
Fornication for unmarried dates is punishable by strokes of cane and for a married coupled they shall be stone till dealth.this punishment is the only thing that can clinse them and wash their sins away.
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moondust (m)
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its not fornication, just like shoplifting is not stealing   |
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Oby1 (f)
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Trini girl or Reverend, watch yourself because you are heading for hell. Don't ever compromise the word of God. God cannot be joked with. My God is a consuming fire and he consumes the wicked. Every false doctrine will be accounted for on the judgement day.
Dont give the enemy space in your life, Jesus said that nothing unclean shall see God on that last day and the days are extremely evil.
Give your life to God and be saved. Sleeping with somebody that is not your husband or wife is Pure SIN. Except you repent you are heading to hell fire.
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Oby1 (f)
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NEVER MOCK GOD!
Make a personal reflection about this. Very interesting, read until the end,
It is written in the Bible (Galatians 6:7): "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Here are some men and women who mocked God:
JOHN LENNON:
Some years before, during his interview with an American Magazine, he said:
"Christianity will end, it will disappear. I do not have to argue about that. I am certain. Jesus was OK, but his subjects were too simple, Today we are more famous than Him" (1966). Lennon, after saying that the Beatles were more famous than Jesus Christ, was shot six times.
TANCREDO NEVES (President of Brazil):
During the Presidential campaign, he said if he got 500,000 votes from his party, not even God would remove him from Presidency.
Sure he got the votes, but he got sick a day before being made President, then he died.
CAZUZA (Bi-sexual Brazilian composer, singer and poet):
During a show in Cane cão ( Rio de Janeiro ), whilst smoking his cigarette, he puffed out some smoke into the air and said:
"God, that's for you."
He died at the age of 32 of AIDS in a horrible manner.
THE MAN WHO BUILT TITANIC:
After the construction of Ti tanic, a reporter asked him how safe the Titanic would be. With an ironic tone he said:
"Not even God can sink it"
The result: I think you all know what happened to the Titanic.
MARILYN MONROE:
She was visited by Billy Graham during a presentation of a show. He said the Spirit of God had sent him to preach to her. After hearing what the Preacher had to say, she said:
"I don't need your Jesus."
A week later, she was found dead in her apartment.
BON SCOTT:
The ex-vocalist of the AC/DC. On one of his 1979 songs he sang:
"Don't stop me, I'm going down all the way, down the highway to hell."
On the 19th of February 1980 , Bon Scott was found dead, he had been choked by his own vomit.
CAMPINAS/SP IN 2005
In Campinas, Brazil a group of friends, drunk, went to pick up a friend. The mother accompanied her to the car and was so worried about the drunkenness of her friends and she said to the daughter - holding her hand, who was already seated in the car:
"MY DAUGHTER, GO WITH GOD AND MAY HE PROTECT YOU."
She responded:
"ONLY IF HE (GOD) TRAVELS IN THE BOOT, CAUSE INSIDE HERE IT'S ALREADY FULL"
Hours later, news came by that they had been involved in a fatal accident, everyone had died, the car could not be recognized what type of car it had been, but surprisingly, the boot was intact. The police said there was no way the boot could have remained intact. To their surprise, inside the boot was a crate of eggs, none were broken,
Boot means trunk.
Many more important people have forgotten that there is no other name that was given so much authority as the name o f Jesus. Many have died but only Jesus died and rose again, and he is still alive.
JESUS!!!
P.S: If it was a joke, you could have sent it to everyone. So are you going to have courage to send this?. I have done my part, Jesus said
"If you are embarrassed about me, I will also be embarrassed about you before my father."
What benefit does it have, if a man gains the whole world but loses his soul? What can man give in exchange for his soul? (Matthew 16:26
Enjoy your week sir/ma'am as you ride on Eagle's wing to victory.Greetings and love to all.
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m_nwankwo (m)
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Oby 1,
I agree that GOD is not mocked. But I strongly disagree with you impling that the terrible things that happened to the people you quoted is because of the statement they made aginst God or his son Jesus. In my view neither you nor anybody else has the authority to make such deductions. There are certain things that lie in the omniscience and wisdom of God and it is not proper in my view for we humans to make judjement on such matters. Every person have his free will and the free will is so free that we can use it to disobey the laws of God. How and when God will act against those that disobey his laws lies with God and not us. These matters are far beyound the capacity of any human being to judge. In addition, those that write views contraly to your own are expressing their free will and their is no point in threatining them with fire and brimestone. If our fellow human beings attack our deeply held beliefs or faith, one has the choice of replying to the points they raised or ignoring it. Afterall, each and every one of us attack albeit uncounciously the deeply held convictions of other people. The beliefs of moslems, christians, hindus etc have been criticisized in many sections of this forum. Even within christianity, there are attacks among the various christian groups. If you are convinced about what you believe, then there is no reason why you should be upset or angered about contrarly views no matter how blasphemous they may seem. Indeed those that do not agree with you give you the oppurtunity to mature, it is only by wishing your enemies the best in thought and deed do the examplary christian love become manifest, not in implied threats of misfortune and problems.
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yorks (m)
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dirty talks `sb always nice  talk `bout flirtish things |
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na2day? (m)
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na wa for una for this nairaland oooooo! this is 2008, and u are already looking for an excuse for your weaknesses, rather than trying to work on it. keep giving yourself excuse oooo and later come and complain that he broke your heart, you hear!
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goodguy (m)
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na wa for una for this nairaland oooooo! this is 2008, and u are already looking for an excuse for your weaknesses, rather than trying to work on it. keep giving yourself excuse oooo and later come and complain that he broke your heart, you hear!
Err. . . bros, this thread was started 1 year and 2 days ago. |
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na2day? (m)
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bros, no vex, i no check the date. Err. . . bros, this thread was started 1 year and 2 days ago. |
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luvus
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hi
quite a nice thread, but i know people are free to their opinions but God's word is still what it is. if you want to fornicate, go ahead, if you don't want to fornicate, please do, for me i choose the latter not the former, because what is the immediate effect, heartbreak, aids etc. Jesus made a statement in Revelation, He that is Holy continually be Holy, He that is Unholy continually be unholy (paraphrased please) , He has reward for each person,
so choose and continually do what you want,
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dafidixone (m)
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Greetings!
It is my belief that pre-marital sex is different from fornication. The verb "to fornicate" is derived from the Greek word
korinthiazomai,a word which was derived from the city of Corinth, where promiscuity and sexual immorality abounded like no where else and the corinthians worshipped the goddess of love (eros), Aphrodite.
There were over 1,000 prostitutes in the temple of Aphrodite, so sexual promisuity was the norm.
In Paul's letter to the Corinthians he admonishes them to flee fornication, meaning avoid to avoid sexually promiscuous behaviour, sleeping with prostitutes, and multiple sex partners.
This is different from pre marital sex.
My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.
Although I do not condone sex with multiple partners, sex with your boyfriend or fiancee is fine, as long as you are both committed to each other and monogamous.
The floor is now open. This your argument may be a justification of a Sin of Fornication. All I know that the Bible is saying is that "Do not have sexual Intercourse except with someone married to you and starting from after you are married . If you try it in a contrary YOU ARE A FORNICATOR. forget your Hebrew word and face the truth  |
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enchanted
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hey everyone was just reading through the whole conversation and I was actually looking up the forum for some clarity and advice on the subject. I went away and thought about everything that was said and I think that for me it became quite clear.
this is what i think on the the issue of fornication and pre-marital sex, Its not entirely about the root meaning of the words or the context the scriptures were written, that does need to be taken into account but the most important thing is reality, how does it actually affect us and the relationships we are in and our past experiences, for those who have been in sexual relationships out of marriage find out that there are reasons why god wants partners to marry, firstly if two people really love, trust and respect each other and are willing to commit to each other then they should marry, if for some reason marriage isnt an option at the present time then waiting til marriage shows love and respect. it also shows the two people involved that they are self-disciplined enough to resist temptation with their sexuality and therfore real trust is built especially in the area of fidelity.
The other thing about the difference between pre-marital sex and fornication, someone who is in a commited relationship and is faithful to one partner is not the same as someone who is promiscuous and sleeping around with no commitment. BUT in saying that the person who is in a commited relationship is compromising the relationship with the person they love because they are not showing complete respect and honour to that person, they are not building a firm foundation, , One last thing, God wants the best for his children, if there is any doubt about whether it is right or wrong then it is probably not a good thing to be doing because guilt and confusion will not allow us to continue growing closer to the one who loves us most, God
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imhotep
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Pre-marital sex is bad and it is sinful. Whatever new name you choose to call it is not important
Do not let the devil use the wisdom of this world (which is foolishness to God) to deceive you.
Remember that the devil quoted Psalm 91 for Jesus.
"For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
They shall bear thee up in [their] hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone "
(Ps 91:11-12)
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ezesolomon
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Hi all, the new US embassy procedure for scheduling interview is now online on http://abuja.usembassy.gov/wwwhming.html at 10 am every Monday. but i have been having problem with this website. it returns error messages. please, does anyone has an idea of scheduling this interview for non-immigrant visas? or has someone been able to schedule one recently online? please i need your contributions. s |
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olatee01
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am just seeing this and i was freaked ou babe.(trina).where does your thinkin come from.jupiter or earth from anotha galaxy. this is such an interesting topic. the floor is always open it is your choice to say if u want to fornicate or watever but one of the reasons i think Paul was tryin to say was that they shld stay away from prostitutes so as not to be affected by it and nt have all those STDs of their time and also not be affected by the mental or psychological attitude of sleeping with prostitutes and many more. it is your choice the FLOOR IS OPEN
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pecutrea (f)
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As a lady, I would like to say that one of the ways that women use to act like "Big girls" is by having guys around them. not just guys, but guys with big cars and all that. Big girls with no cash. SHIO. I think a big girl is an independent sister that can sustain herself with her own hands i.e without a man's money.
By the time these girls that can't breathe without having sex gets married, I'm afraid their downtown would have gone past sidetown.
WOMEN! IT'S TIME WE WAKE UP AND STOP SELLING OURSELVES SHORT. LET'S USE OUR FEMININE POWER FOR SOMETHING BETTER THAN TO WASTE OURSELVES ON MEN.
I WISH YOU ALL COULD BE LIKE ME.
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mr.ming
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in my opinion, the argument can be pretty much split into 2 different ways, and this just supports my theory that the only reason things like this come up is because of the way people interpret things, now theway to see it is that the word Fornication would mean sex before marrage. which today that would be seen as the meaning, but the bible and such weren't written in present times, and people (way back when) it was actually written might have had a different meaning for the word, cause its no secret to anyone but meanings change over time. now this just leaves the the option on how to look at the word, and how to define it and give it meaning, some may see it as what i had said before sex before marrage, being unsure blah blah blah, but others may see it as something else, but what I'm trying to state here is that By simply defining words in a narrow or wide sense, religious liberals and conservatives can totally change the meaning of the Bible. but in this case, i personally haven't done enough research 2 conclude a final answer, or enough facts to firmly take a side on the case of it being a sin or not,
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Ifere (m)
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Trini-girl dearrr! tell me the truth.
for how much did u got that "opinion"
from lucifer? Please return it back to him
before it land u in hell!
"Wanna" wait till then?
Plssssss DON'T!!!
PRE -MARITAL SEX IS WICKEDNESS,
IT'S EVIL. ITS' SIN!
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stave9ja (m)
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@all
this trini girl really had been doing the pre marital sex stuff and wanted a basis for it so she turned round wot the bible said.
even the thief could use the bible to say riches of the gentiles is yours
a murderer could also see points in the bible so also a fraudster could say he is blessed like jacob
tiny trini
you are only seeking ways to proove your recent and future actions as good
unreverd rev
you must be a young boy seeking to sleep around and your fantasies are keeping you from being realistic
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nuggetman (m)
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If pre-marital sex is not fornication, by your definition, what other name would you call pre-marital sex?  |
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