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babs787 (m)
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@pilgrims Did I ever claim that the HOLY SPIRIT has not been in existence? Has the issue been about the EXISTENCE of the SPIRIT? Thank you for admitting that but since it is already in existence, is it the holy spirit that is still coming again? That was why I asked you simply: Has Muhammad being in existence from the creation? I never said Muhammad has been but made that statement when you said it referred to holy spirit. It canm never be for it because it has been in existence and another coming to replace Jesus is big LIE HOW MANY SPIRITS are being spoken of in those verses? You should ask yourself that question when you said another holy spirit is coming when one is in existence. Ponder on that yourself. The door is still wide opened |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@babs787, @pilgrims
Thank you for admitting that but since it is already in existence, is it the holy spirit that is still coming again? Where did you see " coming again" in those verses? I never said Muhammad has been but made that statement when you said it referred to holy spirit. It canm never be for it because it has been in existence and another coming to replace Jesus is big LIE I hear. If " another coming to REPLACE Jesus is a BIG LIE" - we know who has been lying all this while to make Muhammad fit into those verses.  You should ask yourself that question when you said another holy spirit is coming when one is in existence. I never said " another Holy Spirit" - please quote me exactly, and let me see where I made that exact statement. Ponder on that yourself.
The door is still wide opened You see how empty yu can be after all your illiterate bloviates and " oya answer me". Is that all the wind and hot air you're worth? Pity! |
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babs787 (m)
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@pilgrims Where did you see "coming again" in those verses? You may keeo denying the fact. You claimed that the verse if for holy spirit and if it is so, it means another holy spirit would be coming. Abi no be so from your interpretation? I hear. If "another coming to REPLACE Jesus is a BIG LIE" - we know who has been lying all this while to make Muhammad fit into those verses. Holy spirit do not fit into that verse and you know that. I never said "another Holy Spirit" - please quote me exactly, and let me see where I made that exact statement. You may not have said so but your saying that holy spirit is being referred to therein means that another spirit is coming and mind you, the verse says 'another comforter' You see how empty yu can be after all your illiterate bloviates and "oya answer me". Is that all the wind and hot air you're worth? Pity! No be today, Omo ti awon obi ko ba jo ni oju, ara ita ko le jo ni oju. Since you are still denying the glaring fact, here are questions on the postion of holy spirit in that context: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:261. The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years? 2.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the Holy spirit was also present during Jesus life time. So how could this fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy spirit will come? 3. In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don’t they refer to a man? 4. .Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian? 5. .How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the Holy spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later on ? 6. .Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the freedom to follow or not ? 7. .If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes ? How can you explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit? 8.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels didn’t make mistakes in writing them? 9.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them everyday, why don’t they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around? Salam  |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@babs787, @pilgrims You may keeo denying the fact. You claimed that the verse if for holy spirit and if it is so, it means another holy spirit would be coming. Abi no be so from your interpretation? Holy spirit do not fit into that verse and you know that. You may not have said so but your saying that holy spirit is being referred to therein means that another spirit is coming and mind you, the verse says 'another comforter' No be today, Omo ti awon obi ko ba jo ni oju, ara ita ko le jo ni oju. Since you are still denying the glaring fact, here are questions on the postion of holy spirit in that context: "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:261. The only place in the Bible where the Paraclete was called the Holy Spirit is in John 14:26 "But the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you". What has the Holy Spirit brought or taught for the last 2000 years? 2.Christians say that the Paraclete means the Holy Spirit (John 14;26). Jesus said in John 16:7-8 "If I do not go away the Paraclete will not come to you". This could not mean the Holy spirit, since the Holy spirit was said to have been there before Jesus was even born as in Luke 1:41 "Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit". Here, the Holy spirit was also present during Jesus life time. So how could this fit with the condition that Jesus must go away so that the Holy spirit will come? 3. In John 16:7-8, it says: "But if go, I will send him to you. And when he comes, he will convict the world of sins and of righteousness and of Judgment". What do "he" and "him" refer here? Don’t they refer to a man? 4. .Does the Holy Spirit talk to good Christians and bad Christians as well? Is the Holy spirit with them all the time or just at certain times? When does it start visiting a person who wants to become a Christian? 5. .How can you as a Christian tell if the Holy Spirit is inside another Christian? How come many Christians fooled people by claiming that the Holy spirit was inside them only to be converted to another religion later on ? 6. .Does the Holy Spirit dictate what Christians should do without choice or freedom at all or does it only guide them and they have the freedom to follow or not ? 7. .If the Holy Spirit dictates what Christian should do, why do Christians commit sins and make mistakes ? How can you explain the conversion to other religions and atheism of many Christians? Are they told to do that by the Holy Spirit? 8.If the Holy Spirit guides Christians only, and they are free to do what they want, then how do we know that the writers of the Gospels didn’t make mistakes in writing them? 9.If Christians believe that the Holy Spirit comes and talks to them everyday, why don’t they ask the Holy Spirit about which version of the Bible to follow since there are too many versions floating around? Salam ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-86405.192.html#msg1649954) ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-86405.192.html#msg1649965) |
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babs787 (m)
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@pilgrims
I have been there but no answers to my questions in those links, maybe you will do me the favour of bringing your alleged 'answers' out for me to see since you felt that you have provided answers in those links.
Thanks
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cgift (m)
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babs787,
If I may ask, I have not read the Arabic translation of the bible. If you have, can you confirm to me that Mohammad was mentioned in there at all literarily? Just curious.
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olabowale (m)
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@cgift: its your religion. You are asking a Muslim to research and teach you your religion? If you can deal with the duties of your religion, then you need to examine yourself; improve or find a another religion. Come on.
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cgift (m)
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@cgift: its your religion. You are asking a Muslim to research and teach you your religion? If you can deal with the duties of your religion, then you need to examine yourself; improve or find a another religion. Come on.
Uncle!  Your own Ola has refused to come home. I just asked you a simple question and youflare up like that? Is it possible that I could have read 'all' th translations of the bible? Haba! Chief, wake up Jo! Its you guys trying to infuse Mohammad into the scriptures now. Just like you forced trasnlators to use Allah in the place of God in the Arabic bible, I just wanted to be sure if your sword-suasions have also forced Mohammad to be inscribed into that chapter of the book of John. Thank God it is so clear now that allah is not Jehovah that's why all men of God that have tried to use allah in prayers to ven see whether it is the same God of the Christains have seen no results because allah is a dead god. |
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olabowale (m)
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@Cgift: I will not dignify your statement. Personally, how many Olabowales do you know amongst the Yorubas? This is a very rare name. I could easily provide a similar makeup name as you have. Your name does not identify you. Oruko ma nro ni. Ask your elders in your family. You are not God and my hope is totally on my Creator! Unlike you, who is banking on a mere mortal, who was powerless to defend himself in the hands of ragtag Yahud, Jews! Yet he yelled as he was giving up the ghost. Read your Bible and then think. Then in the future don't write without putting your innerworking to proper use.
Go ask. Have you ever heard about any Olabowale who is poor? My father named me well. The name fit me to a t. Whats cgift and how does that relate to YORUBA tribe?
Allah is Alive, full of Power, always without being under conditions that your dead god is. I do not worship creations, be it angels, prophets with two parents, or one, or none at all! Nothing except GOD ALMIGHTY. I am walking softly, but I have big stick in my hand. I am muslim. From Ijebu Ode.
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cgift (m)
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@Cgift: I will not dignify your statement. Personally, how many Olabowales do you know amongst the Yorubas? This is a very rare name. I could easily provide a similar makeup name as you have. Your name does not identify you. Oruko ma nro ni. Ask your elders in your family. You are not God and my hope is totally on my Creator!
Riches do not guaranty wisdom. Get Gd's wisdom, its a better defence than ola  Unlike you, who is banking on a mere mortal, who was powerless to defend himself in the hands of ragtag Yahud, Jews! Yet he yelled as he was giving up the ghost. Read your Bible and then think. Then in the future don't write without putting your innerworking to proper use.
That was his mission on arth. To die. He felt pains because he was human as well. May god open your eyes to see. Allah is Alive, full of Power, always without being under conditions that your dead god is. I do not worship creations, be it angels, prophets with two parents, or one, or none at all! Nothing except GOD ALMIGHTY. I am walking softly, but I have big stick in my hand. I am muslim. From Ijebu Ode.
Whats the big stick for? FYI, Allah is dead but lives in the consciouness of muslims. Allah cannot do a single miracle! not one is recorded in the quran! Very dead god. Call on the name of Jesus and see what it can do for you. |
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davidylan (m)
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Allah is Alive, full of Power, always without being under conditions that your dead god is. I do not worship creations, be it angels, prophets with two parents, or one, or none at all! Nothing except GOD ALMIGHTY. I am walking softly, but I have big stick in my hand. I am muslim. From Ijebu Ode.
Allah is alive?How do you know allah is alive since neither you nor mohammed will ever see him either here on earth nor in jaanat? How do we prove that allah indeed is alive or that he even exists? Full of power?What power? Where are his miracles? Where did he raise the dead? Where did he heal the sick? where did he transform the infidels WITHOUT the use of the sword? How can he be full of "power" and yet needs his followers to kill those who reject islam? Has he no "power" to save? |
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cgift (m)
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Allah is alive?
How do you know allah is alive since neither you nor mohammed will ever see him either here on earth nor in jaanat? How do we prove that allah indeed is alive or that he even exists?
Full of power?
What power? Where are his miracles? Where did he raise the dead? Where did he heal the sick? where did he transform the infidels WITHOUT the use of the sword? How can he be full of "power" and yet needs his followers to kill those who reject islam? Has he no "power" to save?
At least everyday we see and perform miracles in the name of Jesus. Someone, who frequently usd the name of Jesus to do exploits even tried to using allah in place of Jesus Christ. You know what ? It didnt work! Very dead god indeed |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, Unlike you, who is banking on a mere mortal, who was powerless to defend himself in the hands of ragtag Yahud, Jews! Yet he yelled as he was giving up the ghost. Dear uncle Ola, this is the kind of unguided statements that I've asked people to refrain from, because you will only cause more problems for yourself and your convictions. You of all people had earlier asked me directly if I had seen ANY Muslim who insulted ANY of the prophets at any time. My straightforward answer was " YES". I knew it would only be a matter of time before you proved it yourself - that it is a FACT that Muslims continue to castigate the "Prophets" and yet pretend that they never do so! This is why I've often said that the Muslim hypocrisy being pandered in the Ummah is what continues to drive me completely out of Islam - and I'm glad to ever remain outside it until Jesus returns. When you use such misguided language against the One whom you pretend to "love" and "respect", this is what you inevitably invite from fellow discussants: Whats the big stick for? FYI, Allah is dead but lives in the consciouness of muslims. Allah cannot do a single miracle! not one is recorded in the quran! Very dead god. I definitely cannot dictate to anyone HOW or WHAT they should contribute on the Forum. But I often try to invite discussions with integrity, loaded with good information that will help the reader draw their own inferences. You would remember that before I went on a break from the Forum, I had tried calling attention to the same brigand Muslim attitude of don maselo who openly ridiculed " GOD". Rather than you Muslims calling him to order, it didn't come as a surprise to me to notice how you and babs787 tried to applaud his irreverent blasphemy - simply because he happens to be a "Muslim". Your godlessness is unrivalled. - - - - - - - - - - - - Dear cgift, Please, try to refrain from caving in under the pressure to cast aspersions on 'Allah'. We may not agree with Muslims in their convictions about the career of Muhammad; but we can demonstrate the reality of Christ living in us by not stooping to the unfortunate level of freely ridiculing 'God' directly. I would rather present incontrovertible FACTS to the Muslim by discussing issues from both the Bible, Qur'an and Hadiths, than by joining them in their rascal behaviour. May God's blessings keep your heart rejoicing all day in Jesus. |
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cgift (m)
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Dear cgift, Please, try to refrain from caving in under the pressure to cast aspersions on 'Allah'. We may not agree with Muslims in their convictions about the career of Muhammad; but we can demonstrate the reality of Christ living in us by not stooping to the unfortunate level of freely ridiculing 'God' directly. I would rather present incontrovertible FACTS to the Muslim by discussing issues from both the Bible, Qur'an and Hadiths, than by joining them in their rascal behaviour. May God's blessings keep your heart rejoicing all day in Jesus. Dear sis, I understand. I understand. I understand. Many thanks, How is work going? |
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olabowale (m)
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@Pligrim.1: We should not forget that I have never insulted Jesus son of Mary, a prophet of Islam. Now have I ever insulted Jesus of the Bible. It is in the Bible that we find out that he did not proof out any relevance/resemblance of Goship. It is also, in the Bible that we finds that he cried out, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me. The above, if not true to forms, please correct me and i will apologise. We also know from this action, he gave up the ghost or dies. All of this is from the Bible. Where have I said anything wrong and accreditted it to the Bible? Please notice that the one on the cross, from the Bible, did not refer to God as his father, in his hour of intensed need, even though he demstrated that need by the yelling for relief.
Now as to cgift, that is something else. He spoke about Muhammad. The muslims know that Muhammad (AS), never claimed that he was not only a human prophet. A mere mortal. But when this cgift said Allah is dead, that was his own opinion. I had the right to inform him that truly at one time, his God and savior died. That is direct from his Bible. In the Qur'an, you do not find where Allah is dead. What you find is that He is always complete, never diminishes and always full of power, complete.
Between cgift and me, I ask you, who is wrong and who has spoken the truth? Now to my name. Cgift, never saw fit to respect my perso. Not because of the difference between my age and his. But he does not know me, enough to debase me. In islam, the least I could do was to just respond to him and defend my honor. Olabowale, is not Uncle, your ola refuses to come home! If I am from his family, would he have spoken to me like that? Afterall, we could have differences of opinion, and have heated argument about it, but there is a line we should not cross. Read what your man, a Yoruba man, Mr. cgift wrote to me, yesterday.
Ile lan wo ka to somo loruko. Just because me are on opposite sides, we should at least have a civility about our positions. If I did not stop him, only kniws how far he will go. Yet, I have children close to his age. And i did not cross the line.
You be the Judge. We are not, in islam commanded to just only turn the other cheek. If you wish, you walk away after the first slap. if you want you turn the other cheek. If you want, you can stop anyone from slapping you, in the first place. Yet you have more options. Just as long as you do not slap anybody, first.
Tell me where am wrong. then i will apologise and correct my ways. Further, remember than my Jesus is different in description from your Jesus. I know you do not have any Muhammad. But Allah is universal. Just like Olorun, or Olodumare or Oluwa, etc, each, is the name or desciption of God or Lord, english words to describe yahwah, Jehovah of Hebrew, so is Allah in Arabic. You can also call Him Al Rahman, and many other descriptions.
Tell your guy to know his limit, espectially when he is addressing his elder. There is a Yoruba culture still in play, amongst us, the Yorubas. We should not forget that. Ronti Omo eni ti iwo nse!
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cgift (m)
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Uncle Ola! Ok. I apologise. I wont again let any 'seemngly foolish' post ignite unruly words from me towards you or anyother. I am sorry. My premises in saying Allah is dead are these: 1) It has been confirmed that Allah cannot perform miracles. Our own Jesus who lives forevermore (as attested to by your quran) continues to perform wonders at the us of His name by His children. 2) Allah, like i said in an earlier post of mine was not introduced by Mohammad. Mohammad met Allah oon earth. You would agree with me that Allah was one of the very many gods of the pagan nations back then that is identified with the crscent moon symbol. Allah is otherwis known as the moon god. 3) It is an undeniable fact of history that before Muhammed was born, the moon god "al-Ilah" (Allah) had three daughters named al-Lat, al-Uzza and Manat. The first two were even named after their father. Each daughter had a separate shrine near Mecca, where Allah's shrine was located. If Allah had earthly daughters, he must have died and we do not read of resurrection of that Allah that died that has now being deified. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, @Pligrim.1: We should not forget that I have never insulted Jesus son of Mary, a prophet of Islam. Now have I ever insulted Jesus of the Bible. If you really wanted to interest me with a discussion, please refrain from LYING. I have just pointed out that you did that very thing - and rather than acknowledge you were wrong, you came back drooling with saliva and claiming you have never "insulted" Jesus the son of Mary! Please tell me - ~ Did Muhammad claim to be preaching a "different Jesus" than the One in the Bible? ~ Did Muhammad anywhere claim to be speaking of a "different Mary" than the Biblical one? ~ When you tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible, were you referring to a "different Bible"? Why are you Muslims to characteristically slaved with HYPOCRISY? Please olabowale, simply answer those simple questions and let me know where at all either Allah or Muhammad ever claimed to have been preaching a "different Jesus" so that you can justify your hideous excuse on insulting the Biblical Jesus! Don't you have any shame? It is in the Bible that we find out that he did not proof out any relevance/resemblance of Goship. John 10:30 - "I and my Father are one." John 12:45 - "And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me." It is also, in the Bible that we finds that he cried out, my God, my God, why has thou forsaken me. And how does that controvert the FACT that Jesus declared Himself to be the Son of God in the Bible? The above, if not true to forms, please correct me and i will apologise. Don't try to humour me with your duplicity - you have never kept your word! We also know from this action, he gave up the ghost or dies. All of this is from the Bible. How many times have we pointed out that He died in the FLESH - and that does not mean He ceased to exist or that death overcame Him?!? 1 Peter 3:18 -- "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, BUT quickened by the Spirit". Your problem has been that one who died could not have been in control or alive beyond the grave. We have severally answered that same query to demonstrate that nothing - not even death - was able to limit Him! But rather than seek a discussion, you shamelessly try to skip threads and present your hypocritical sarcasm in place of reasoning. Where have I said anything wrong and accreditted it to the Bible? If you have no integrity and are happy to justify your derision against Christ, then you should also be happy to note that nobody would be saying anything wrong if they accredit Muhammad as a pedophile, a terrorist, and sex pervert - issue which you cannot deny are well attested to in your Qur'an and Hadith! On what grounds then would you be saying that anyone saying such things is saying anything "wrong"? I have tried to call for clemency and reason when we discuss issues - with mutual respect across board. If you have no clues and are not willing to offer any such, the best you could do is crawl into your small hole and live your hypocrisy as much as you want. Please notice that the one on the cross, from the Bible, did not refer to God as his father, in his hour of intensed need, even though he demstrated that need by the yelling for relief. Where did you read that Jesus YELLED? Are you so bereft of simple honesty? On top of everything, when you Muslims have exposed how dishonest you can be, then you manifest such duplicity that has become your trademark. It is common knowledge that Jesus often used the word 'FATHER' and 'GOD' interchangeably to refer to the very same God the Father. It is clear that when He spoke of Himself as the SON, He was presenting His relationship to the FATHER! A few examples: (a) John 3:18 -- "He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." (b) John 20:17 -- "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Let me ask you: was Jesus DENYING the FATHERHOOD of God in the verses above, olabowale? When you pick just one verse in order to run your gamut aagainst Christianity, just notice how very laughable you make yourself. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, Now as to cgift, that is something else. He spoke about Muhammad. The muslims know that Muhammad (AS), never claimed that he was not only a human prophet. A mere mortal. But when this cgift said Allah is dead, that was his own opinion. I had the right to inform him that truly at one time, his God and savior died. "Informing" cgift or anyone that our Saviour died is not a big deal - we have never denied that the Saviour gave His life a ransom for us and many others (Mark 10:45). But if you really have a conscience, ask yourself if you were actully "INFORMING" anyone about anything. Is it not clear that you were rather being deliberately and shamlessly INSOLENT?!? That is direct from his Bible. In the Qur'an, you do not find where Allah is dead. Please, can you post any verse from the Bible where it is stated that " God is dead"? That Jesus became a Man so He could experience death in the FLESH is not the same thing as saying that " God died" as you have been trying to make out. Even if someone was to make a statement that is not true, what is your rsponsibility, olabowale? You really have shamed your religion - because you have simply no reverence for "God", and the Islamic fraud of pretending to "love" God (aside from "Allah") is what you have sought to justify! Shame! What you find is that He is always complete, never diminishes and always full of power, complete. Rubbish! How has 'Allah' in the Qur'an shown himself to be "complete" - when he rather would be too quick to hasten to the wishes of Muhammad? How has 'Allah' in the Qur'an shown that he does not diminish when he reveals abrogated verses in the Qur'an - a Qur'an that claims to be "detailed and complete" and yet has to lean on the hadiths for understanding its message? What do you know about the Islamic claim of being 'always full of power' when the miracles we find in the Qur'an were borrowed from Christianity and Judaism!?! Moses' and Jesus' miracles are recorded in the Qur'an - where are the miracles of Muhammad recorded in the same Qur'an? Between cgift and me, I ask you, who is wrong and who has spoken the truth? Olabowale, you have shamelessly LIED and you are wrong! Get done with the excuses! Rather than offer me any excuplations, please refer to the questions presented earlier and offer simple honest answers to them. I repeat them here: Please tell me - ~ Did Muhammad claim to be preaching a "different Jesus" than the One in the Bible? ~ Did Muhammad anywhere claim to be speaking of a "different Mary" than the Biblical one? ~ When you tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible, were you referring to a "different Bible"? Why are you Muslims to characteristically slaved with HYPOCRISY? Now to my name. Cgift, never saw fit to respect my perso. Not because of the difference between my age and his. But he does not know me, enough to debase me. In islam, the least I could do was to just respond to him and defend my honor. You're a waste! Your so-called "honour" has become more important to you than the honour of the name of GOD, abi? If you want true honour, seek not to dishonour others. Perhaps you had hoped that your honour would be accentuated by your insulting the Biblical Jesus, the Saviour, the Christ, and God. Sorry, you lost it - and you would have to work really hard to regain it. A godly or devout man seeks to honour God above his puny 'honour' - and olabowale, you have hugely failed on that! Olabowale, is not Uncle, your ola refuses to come home! If I am from his family, would he have spoken to me like that? Compare that with: Unlike you, who is banking on a mere mortal, who was powerless to defend himself in the hands of ragtag Yahud, Jews! Yet he yelled as he was giving up the ghost. By contrast, what is your "honour" when you have no shame in the above quote of yours? Your "name" is sweet to you. . . but you can afford to blow insolence on Jesus Christ. Dirty dey worry you for eye!  Afterall, we could have differences of opinion, and have heated argument about it, but there is a line we should not cross. Read what your man, a Yoruba man, Mr. cgift wrote to me, yesterday. I have said again and again that we should know where to draw the lines even when we disagree - and that is the same thing that spurred me into calling your attention as well as cgift's. If you cannot lead by example, who will honour you when you have hypocritically dishonoured others? Ile lan wo ka to somo loruko. Mo gbo. Just because me are on opposite sides, we should at least have a civility about our positions. How have you demonstrated "civility"? If I did not stop him, only kniws how far he will go. Yet, I have children close to his age. And i did not cross the line. And you assumed that the best way to "stop" anyone is to turn your vitriol on Jesus of the Bible?!? Do you need medical assistance? Is that theexample you set for your children? You be the Judge. We are not, in islam commanded to just only turn the other cheek. I know what exactly obtains in Islam - I've been there before. If you wish, you walk away after the first slap. No Muslim walks away after any slaps. if you want you turn the other cheek. If you want, you can stop anyone from slapping you, in the first place. Yet you have more options. Just as long as you do not slap anybody, first. Yada-yada. You imply have no clue as to what is in front of you. Tell me where am wrong. then i will apologise and correct my ways. Refer above and drink your shame. Further, remember than my Jesus is different in description from your Jesus. I hear. If you don't mind dropping your hypocrisy, please refer again and offer answers to the same questions already offered and now repeated here: Please tell me - ~ Did Muhammad claim to be preaching a "different Jesus" than the One in the Bible? ~ Did Muhammad anywhere claim to be speaking of a "different Mary" than the Biblical one? ~ When you tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible, were you referring to a "different Bible"? Why are you Muslims to characteristically slaved with HYPOCRISY? I know you do not have any Muhammad. Nope. But Allah is universal. Just like Olorun, or Olodumare or Oluwa, etc, each, is the name or desciption of God or Lord, english words to describe yahwah, Jehovah of Hebrew, so is Allah in Arabic. You can also call Him Al Rahman, and many other descriptions. And where did Muhammad ask you Muslims to INSULT " GOD" just because he is not called " ALLAH"? Please just post me the verse. Tell your guy to know his limit, espectially when he is addressing his elder. OLABOWALE, KNOW YOUR LIMIT when you address JESUS! There is a Yoruba culture still in play, amongst us, the Yorubas. We should not forget that. Ronti Omo eni ti iwo nse! Let that proverb help you reverence GOD and rever JESUS instead of seeking to plaster your "honour" where you have shamed it! Shallom. |
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olabowale (m)
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@Pligrim.1: My Queen. Iyawo mi ole sako simi bo nse nse yi. And she is my olori. Stop that queen Bee nonsense. You want to discuss. Go ahead. You are not directing traffic here. Definately, not mine.
Muhammad (as), by defination of what is in the Qur'an, has provided us a different Jesus, than what you have in the Bible.
Stark differences: The One in the Qur'an, is not God. Not son of God. Not 1/3 God. He spoke to defend his mother's honor, even as a babe. He preached the Oneness of God Allah, the Almighty. He prostrated his face to Allah, his Lord, Muhammad's Lord and yours and mines. He defined his messengership, only to the children of Israel. He foretold of a future messenger of God, the personage of Muhammad as Ahmad. He was not killed. He was not crucified. He revealed what the children of Israel stored up in their houses. He asked God to send a complete table of food (dinner), from heaven as a sign of his prophethood, when his core companions requested for that specific sign. He gave all the glories to his God. He told his nation, the BaniIsrail, to worship God alone, their Lord and his Lord, and not to associate any partnership, in that worship. He said whoever does not worship God alone, paaradise is forbidden to that a soul, the soul that will abide in hellfire for ever. Please dispute any of the above, from the Qur'an! And do you have any of these in the Bible?
The Mary I know, is not venerated as Mother of God. This alone is enough as an answer.
The Bible (TORAH, SABUUR and INJIIL), that the Muslims are refering to are these three revelations, exactly as they were revealed to the prophet that receive the revelation. At the time of revelation, when the prophet was still alive to guarantee the authenticity of what he received. And that goes on until, just before the first foreign element was brought into it. From the point of the first foreign element into any of the revelations, it becomes diluted and not 100% pure anymore. This process of dillution continues throughout the ages, until, you have so many information, that it is impossible to differentiate, the wheat from the shafts. What Muhammad is been told by Al Rahman is that the Bible (The three revealed Books that comprised it), are diluted, sometimes before the beginning of his messengership. The dilution, of each book, however began sometimes after each prophet had left the stage. So to answer your question, the Bible we believe in is the one at sometime, in the past, before Muhammad, say at the time of each prophet, being alive, when receiving the revelation and prior to it being polluted.
I have shame and you know it. I am very bashful. You are the one who misbehaving.
Aburo, Aburo. Oni suru. Agidi e poo ju. You contadict yourself, to much. You quote Gospel of selected people. Yet, from your Bible, there were 12 Apostles. Lets take Judas out of it, we still have 11. Yet you are quoting 4, at best. 4 in 11, is less than 40%. What happens to the 60 plus %? They do not have any recollection of his wonderful performances? No wonder he called them people of little faith! Then am surprised that we have to result to the Bullying action of a second generation man called Saul/Paul!
What happened to the Gospel of Jesus, which he preached about the places he went? Aburo, dami lowun! I keep my words. have you with me?
John 10;30 and 12;45, kind of disagree with each others position. The first claimed they they are one, as in 2 in 1 package. The second shows that there is a master slave/servant relationship, in play. The master sends the subordinate to errant or mission a particular purpose. I always answer to my father's name. Even his father's name. How then that Jesus was on the cross, dying that he cried my God, my God, why (questioning) has thou forsaken me? Please correct me, if there was no yell/cry? Aburo, check your Bible.
Jesus son of mary, the massiah of the children is free of all the christians say about him. The christians exagerated his position, hence embellishing.
Jesus is also clear of all the lies of the jews against him. For they refused to acknowledge him.
About your pedophilia statement, you have to put everything in context of all the possible variables. Then you come to your own conclusions
For example, I ask people all the time if Abu bakr had any new children after he had entered Islam? Being the first adult male that accepted islam in the first year, one can begin to know the true story from there onward.
To simply lue outright, because one is trying to score a point is deceitful and shameful, in all normal sense of it al
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olabowale (m)
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@Pligrim.1: When you called Jesus God/Lord, what do you mean except that he is your God or Lord. Then jesus died. thats from your Bible. What else is thare that i have to proof!
To say that God who created mankind and all things and also created death, lacks information about death is in itself limiting God's knowledge. This is why our god may actually be different from your God. The Muslims worship a God who is beyond all things and not under any constraint. Death is for His creation. Mercy, forgiveness and all are His alone. My God does not die.
You on the other hand is worshipping a God that must experience torture and finally death, like human beings, so that He can learn what, really? Yet, some will still go to hellfire? God is free of all they associate with HIM.
Am a Yoruba man, when i pristrate my face, in salah prayers, I speak Yoruba: Oloruno, sha nu iya mi o. Ati bebe lo.
Kini mo se nsen yin. What are you talking about!
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combatant
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May Allah increases your knowledge (Amin)
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cgift (m)
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May Allah increases your knowledge (Amin)
What has he said? Nuffin! If this is your best scholar, then you people have no hope. Age-full Ola, I am beginning to come to terms with your style of engagement. I can see that you really find it hard to digest anything a bit complex. Yt, there is no complexity in this matter. It is just that your mind has been sired with hot iron such that you can no longer comprehend some basics. They have asked you three asic questions, you effaced them all. In addition to Pilgrim's questions I ask; ~ Was Allah in existence before Mohammad was born? Now to your posts: @Pligrim.1: My Queen. Iyawo mi ole sako simi bo nse nse yi. And she is my olori. Stop that queen Bee nonsense. You want to discuss. Go ahead. You are not directing traffic here. Definately, not mine.
Muhammad (as), by defination of what is in the Qur'an, has provided us a different Jesus, than what you have in the Bible.
Stark differences: The One in the Qur'an, is not God. Not son of God. Not 1/3 God.
We have always known that our Jesus is diffenret from the one given in the quran. Your prophet was supposed to come and continue from where the earlier prophets stopped without making a distinction of one from the other. But what do we have, in your own words :STARK DIFFERENCES. So who is contradictory if not Allah? Now, let me ask you, How can you then make real the qust by your prophet that you consult the people of the book whenever you have teething problems understanding or comprehending Mohammad's or Allah's messages?You claim our book is corrupt or better still in your confusionist state, lost right? Did Allah or his propht not know that that was going to happen before giving such 'futile' assignments? As regards, corruption, Allah had said in the quran that no on can alter the words of Allah in the Torah nd other books that he (Allah) revealed right? so why then do you find it difficult to give us the originals that Allah must hav preserved? Is it possibl that Allah does not have a strong room for these books he claimed to have released? So many questions begging for answers uncle! If you can't provide answers, that adds a feather to my cap in saying that Allah must be dead. He spoke to defend his mother's honor, even as a babe.
Only shows the peverted writings like that of the gospel of Barnabas that Mohammad must have read. There is no where it is written that Jesus ever talked as a babe in the bible. He preached the Oneness of God Allah, the Almighty. He prostrated his face to Allah, his Lord, Muhammad's Lord and yours and mines. He defined his messengership, only to the children of Israel. He foretold of a future messenger of God, the personage of Muhammad as Ahmad. He was not killed. He was not crucified. He revealed what the children of Israel stored up in their houses. He asked God to send a complete table of food (dinner), from heaven as a sign of his prophethood, when his core companions requested for that specific sign. He gave all the glories to his God. He told his nation, the BaniIsrail, to worship God alone, their Lord and his Lord, and not to associate any partnership, in that worship. He said whoever does not worship God alone, paaradise is forbidden to that a soul, the soul that will abide in hellfire for ever. Please dispute any of the above, from the Qur'an! And do you have any of these in the Bible?
If Jesus of the quran is one of the 'accepted' prophets of Islam, then i have a serious issue with you people. Why is the Jesus of the quran very much different from Mohammad if they are from the same God or Allah? the Jsus of the quran never killed or maimed did he? He did even performed miracles? Hee must have being an ambolishment of love I presume. But why is Mohammad remarkedly different? Beats my imagination. COuld a single source of spring water spew out both hot and cold water at the same time? Can Allah be peacful and loving in Jesus but more dastardly, barbaric and overtly inhumane or dehumanising in Mohammad? Are you sure there is no problem here? The Mary I know, is not venerated as Mother of God. This alone is enough as an answer.
Your brothers in the Catholic church trained Mohammad at some point. That was how he got the message of the trinity all screwed up! Please do not just pile up loads of rubbish by just bringing irrelevances. We have severally tackled out RCC brethren of the herecies they have. If you have a modicum of respect and honour still left, I would not expect you ever to bring up catholic doctrines or dogmas when discussing with us again. The Bible (TORAH, SABUUR and INJIIL), that the Muslims are refering to are these three revelations, exactly as they were revealed to the prophet that receive the revelation. At the time of revelation, when the prophet was still alive to guarantee the authenticity of what he received. And that goes on until, just before the first foreign element was brought into it. From the point of the first foreign element into any of the revelations, it becomes diluted and not 100% pure anymore. This process of dillution continues throughout the ages, until, you have so many information, that it is impossible to differentiate, the wheat from the shafts. What Muhammad is been told by Al Rahman is that the Bible (The three revealed Books that comprised it), are diluted, sometimes before the beginning of his messengership. The dilution, of each book, however began sometimes after each prophet had left the stage. So to answer your question, the Bible we believe in is the one at sometime, in the past, before Muhammad, say at the time of each prophet, being alive, when receiving the revelation and prior to it being polluted.
The only reason why Allah could not keepo his words of preventing a dilution of the bible is SHEER INCOMPETENCE! Wait a minute! If what we call the bible is not Allah was referring to, then produce the original bible that your Allah in his 'sovereignity (?)' preserved. They probaby could be in the Kaabal! I have shame and you know it. I am very bashful. You are the one who misbehaving.
Probably a scintilla! Any more misdemanours will confide you to the inglorious hall of sham & dishonour Aburo, Aburo. Oni suru. Agidi e poo ju. You contadict yourself, to much. You quote Gospel of selected people. Yet, from your Bible, there were 12 Apostles. Lets take Judas out of it, we still have 11. Yet you are quoting 4, at best. 4 in 11, is less than 40%. What happens to the 60 plus %? They do not have any recollection of his wonderful performances? No wonder he called them people of little faith! Then am surprised that we have to result to the Bullying action of a second generation man called Saul/Paul!
Only a kindergarten could have built this house of ordinary sand.If all of Mohammads followers had each written their own versions of Mohammad's life, guess your contradictions would have been worse of! What happened to the Gospel of Jesus, which he preached about the places he went? Aburo, dami lowun! I keep my words. have you with me?
Look at yourself in the mirror, can you see the big knowledge gap needing to be filled? What did you expect to happen to The Living Word of God? He preached and signs and wonders accompanied his words. How I wish I can say the same of Mohammad and Allah is errand spirit. John 10;30 and 12;45, kind of disagree with each others position. The first claimed they they are one, as in 2 in 1 package. The second shows that there is a master slave/servant relationship, in play. The master sends the subordinate to errant or mission a particular purpose. I always answer to my father's name. Even his father's name. How then that Jesus was on the cross, dying that he cried my God, my God, why (questioning) has thou forsaken me? Please correct me, if there was no yell/cry? Aburo, check your Bible.
No need to even respond to this ignorant post. If I were you, I would rather see how I can reconcile with Jesus that is said to be coming back. can't you see that you guys just have a book that contradicts you severally? I know you would have wished that Jesus was not mentioned in the QUran at all! Jesus son of mary, the massiah of the children is free of all the christians say about him. The christians exagerated his position, hence embellishing.
Jesus is also clear of all the lies of the jews against him. For they refused to acknowledge him.
He is coming back. He is coming to take his beloved home. You still have an opportunity to repent so that He can forgve your sins. About your pedophilia statement, you have to put everything in context of all the possible variables. Then you come to your own conclusions
For example, I ask people all the time if Abu bakr had any new children after he had entered Islam? Being the first adult male that accepted islam in the first year, one can begin to know the true story from there onward.
To simply lue outright, because one is trying to score a point is deceitful and shameful, in all normal sense of it al
What context, you are boxed in a coner and you therefore try to defend the indefensibl. You wont make sense trying to defend what is absurd! urine on your cloth confines you to hell. Yawning means the devil is fanning you, drinking camels urines, mountains dropping as pegs to stabilise the earth, etc., only shows that your Allah is not knolwedgeable. How could a prophet have married a 6 yr-old? How? I dare ask you a question. Why did Mohammad end up with 22 wives when he limited you people to just four (4)? He was surely filled with lust and obsession and sexual perversion. Even to have collected the wife of his adopted son alone shows you that he was only lewd and carnal. Again, when I look at the duaghters of Allah in relation to the satanic verses, I just marvel. Allah (if he exists) and Mohammad together have been the biggest fraud that ever happened to man only to come and dehumanise man and make him blow up himself in expectation of virgins, wine and wealth in an afterlife he will never enjoy. God have mercy. |
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buluti (m)
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Please is it true and in the Koran that Muhammad married a 6 yr old child. This is to the Muslims in the house, a simple Yes or No will do?
Thanks for your aniticipated simple "Yes" or "No".
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, Muhammad (as), by defination of what is in the Qur'an, has provided us a different Jesus, than what you have in the Bible. Gbam! That's all I wanted you to confirm! Now, could you be so kind as to show us where Muhammad claimed to be preaching ANOTHER Jesus? Just walk us through the Qur'an and the Hadiths to establish your assertion that Muhammad mentioned "another Jesus". Please dispute any of the above, from the Qur'an! And do you have any of these in the Bible? You would only first have to show me WHERE Muhammad spoke of "another Jesus" - and then I will show you exactly WHY you have rubbished your Qur'an. Please oblige me. The Mary I know, is not venerated as Mother of God. This alone is enough as an answer. I hear. WHERE have you ever seen pilgrim.1 venerate Mary as "the Mother of God"?!? The Bible (TORAH, SABUUR and INJIIL), that the Muslims are refering to are these three revelations, exactly as they were revealed to the prophet that receive the revelation. At the time of revelation, when the prophet was still alive to guarantee the authenticity of what he received. And that goes on until, just before the first foreign element was brought into it. From the point of the first foreign element into any of the revelations, it becomes diluted and not 100% pure anymore. I have just one question for you here: WHEN did these "foreign element" come in to pollute the Torah, Injil and Zabur that 'Allah' claimed he sent down and confirmed? I have shame and you know it. I am very bashful. You are the one who misbehaving. No wahala - we know that those who mistake their rascally behaviour for bashfulness are beyond reconciliation. You contadict yourself, to much. You quote Gospel of selected people. Yet, from your Bible, there were 12 Apostles. Lets take Judas out of it, we still have 11. Yet you are quoting 4, at best. 4 in 11, is less than 40%. What happens to the 60 plus %? They do not have any recollection of his wonderful performances? No wonder he called them people of little faith! Then am surprised that we have to result to the Bullying action of a second generation man called Saul/Paul! Please stop whinging like a kid! Paul was not a bully - compare him with the sword-wielding terrorist who bellowed these words in Islam: " I have been made victorious by TERROR!" Besides, it is a well-known FACT that Muhammad had no qualms with the Gospels - UNTIL he realized that the Jews would not be fooled by his claim to be a prophet like unto the Biblical prophets! The nonsense that Muslims are claiming today about the Gospels are a huge contradiction to the claims of Muhammad! Besides, was it not YOU olabowale who tried to quote john's Gospel to smuggle Muhammad into John 14:26? What happened to the Gospel of Jesus, which he preached about the places he went? Aburo, dami lowun! I keep my words. have you with me? I have always kept my word. Please what do you understand by the "Gospel of Jesus"? John 10;30 and 12;45, kind of disagree with each others position. The first claimed they they are one, as in 2 in 1 package. The second shows that there is a master slave/servant relationship, in play. The master sends the subordinate to errant or mission a particular purpose. I always answer to my father's name. Even his father's name. How then that Jesus was on the cross, dying that he cried my God, my God, why (questioning) has thou forsaken me? Please correct me, if there was no yell/cry? Aburo, check your Bible. Olabowale, if insanity is the substitute you offer for reason, I could well sympathize with your duplicity. I asked you a simple question: please show us where Jesus YELLED!! Have you done that? Second, the 'interpretation' you pretended for the verses above is not what the Bible teaches. It has never been regarded as "2 in 1 package". Jesus never claimed to be the Father - and in His being one with the Father, have you carefully reasoned through that His perfect harmony with the Father in all things does not contradict His relationship at any point? You do well with your wayo attempt - but it's not new with you. Jesus son of mary, the massiah of the children is free of all the christians say about him. The christians exagerated his position, hence embellishing. Sorry, it was Muhammad who copied and edited the Biblical narratives and sold his tales to Muslims. That is why you guys are at such a huge loss when we ask you to show where Muhammad is ever spoken of in the Bible. Even though he claims that very thing in the Qur'an, you guys have been so embarrased to find that you cannot smuggle him into the Bible!  Jesus is also clear of all the lies of the jews against him. For they refused to acknowledge him. Uncle Olabowale, HOW MANY times will you whine and complain about that? HOW MANY times have I shown you that MANY Jews believed on Him? You still sidon here dey pretend your wayo! About your pedophilia statement, you have to put everything in context of all the possible variables. Then you come to your own conclusions No vex - that was an illustration to show that your sarcasm was uncalled for. There's nothing for me to contextualize, and your argument against the FACT is a waste before you even begin!! For example, I ask people all the time if Abu bakr had any new children after he had entered Islam? Being the first adult male that accepted islam in the first year, one can begin to know the true story from there onward. Make I no laff! How many Muslims even know what to believe on the imbroglio? To simply lue outright, because one is trying to score a point is deceitful and shameful, in all normal sense of it al Good. That is why you should educate yourself and cease from spewing your own LIES. Regards. |
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buluti (m)
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Please is it true and in the Koran that Muhammad married a 6 yr old child. This is to the Muslims in the house, a simple Yes or No will do?
Thanks for your aniticipated simple "Yes" or "No".
Can someone please answer my question? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Hi buluti, Can someone please answer my question? Perhaps we left the question as you had initially intended it for "the Muslims in the house" to answer. I have not come across a verse in the Qur'an (Koran) that explicitly states that Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 years old. But there is no denying that the HADITHS explicitly mention the details that Muhammad indeed married Aisha when she was 6 y.o. and consummated the marriage when she was 9 y.o. Does that help? Cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@topic: Prophet Muhammad in the Bible
Sura 7 v 157 (Pickthall):
Those who follow the messenger,
the Prophet who can neither read nor write,
whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel
(which are) with them.
There are 3 things that verses like the above bring to our attention:
(a) that Muhammad is believed to be an illiterate prophet
(b) that Muhammad is found in the Bible (Torah and Gospel specifically)
(c) that the said Torah and Gospel were not lost but are with Jews and Christians.
On closer examination, Muslims only assume these issues without seeking to verify them. It is remarkable to observe that the first two points listed above are fallacies - and Muslims who have tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible have found the task a colossal embarrassment because they cannot substantiate such claims in any coherent manner. In plain English, Muhammad was not illiterate in terms of being able to read and write; and he is not found in a single verse in the Bible!
The Muslim faces the dilemma of making a choice between staying in a huge fraud that cannot be substantiated; or acknowledge that Muhammad made such fallacies on his own and pretended them as the "revelations" of 'Allah'.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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For those who have been spouting a LOST Torah where the Qur'an does not claim any such idea, let me remind you what Muslim translators have said:
Sura 7 v 157 (Pickthall):
Those who follow the messenger,
the Prophet who can neither read nor write,
whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel
(which are) with them.
If Muhammad is NOT in the Bible which the Qur'an describes as being "with them" (i.e., being with Jews and Christians), why have Muslims abandoned their own LOST Torah and searching the one that is with us?
Where did the Qur'an claim that the Torah which 'Allah' gave was LOST?
Where did the false Muslim idea emanate from that the Qur'an was referring to "another" Torah when as a matter of FACT Muslim translators and scholars know that it was referring to the very same Torah that is with us TODAY?
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