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VOR (m)
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@ mrpataki
I do not understand what you mean by further stay and the rest but she is went there through a seminar and has decided to remain there in Canada and she has been there for 3 years now. Also i will appreciate if you give me the list of schools to apply.
Thanks
Patti, My expertise is in UK immigration law and not Canadian although I would imagine a lot of the principles are the same. Others on this board might be able to help you but I would also suggest you google the net for helpful sites to do with visiting and working in Canada. |
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mrpataki (m)
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@ VOR,
So sorry to negate your points. Dada himself just clarified issues for me. I thought he wanted his wife down possibly for just a short visit, not knowing it was a settlement thing.
Thanks for the clarification as well.
@ Dada,
Really the bulk of the matter lies on your hands then. As well, you will need to secure a letter from your University as to the PhD you intend to follow.
But on the whole, you have the major work to do. And judging by the present circumstances, you do not have sufficient ground yet to invite your wife to stay permanently.
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VOR (m)
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@mr pataki
She doesnt have everything u have mentioned.She graduated from OAU last year october,and completed orientation camp this march(27th).She plans to come over possibly to discontinue her NYSC,and join me in the UK.
Does she need a large sum of money in her statement as i am the sponsor?Anyway she has a bank statement with petty amount in the five digits.
Also she is not coming to visit,she is coming to stay with possibly till i finish my phd in 2011.
Does she has to do anything with the NYSC Stuff?
Dada Trust me, so long as you are solvent in the UK and can care for your wife and you can satisfy them she is your wife and that you will both return to Nigeria at the end of your studies you should not have a problem. There are many wives of students here in the UK and not all of them were in gainful employment back home. All I would say however is that your wife should only tell them that she will be in the UK as long as your CURRENT EC. So if for example you plan to extend your studies beyond this date you would then both have to apply from within the UK. HOPE THAT IS CLEAR. |
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VOR (m)
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@Dada,
Just to clarify for me, when does your current student visa expire?
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mrpataki (m)
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Going by what he said i think it is September 2007.
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dada77
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@mrpataki + VOR
my leave to remain expires by jan 2008,my Msc finishes sept 2007 and my Phd commences jan/feb 2008
Hope this helps.
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mrpataki (m)
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I will suggest you wait till you start your PhD program before you bring your wife down. Just my own view though.
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dada77
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@mrpataki
any logical reason?
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VOR (m)
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@Dada
Cool go ahead and apply if you have everything I mentioned in order.
As you don't actually have leave to remain or enter at the moment for
your PH.d your wife should only apply till Jan 2008.
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VOR (m)
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@mrpataki
any logical reason?
I differ from Mr Pataki here. So long as everything is in place for her I can see no reason why you should have to wait till you start your ph.d in 2008. |
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mrpataki (m)
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@mrpataki
any logical reason?
To my own view, you have a limited leave to remain, which does not add weight to your application at the moment, even if you have 10,000GBP in your bank statement. @ VOR How would you be able to convince the ECO that you actually intend for your wife to return to Nigeria after Jan2008, and or what ground is she going to the UK, when the spouse has a limited leave to remain? I am talking like this because I have an uncle who is citizen who had the same experience in a way, that was even in the early 90's. Just my own view again though. |
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dada77
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@mrpataki
Though as the phrase implies 'limited leave to remain' it is still a student visa which is always subject to extension based on the length of your current or proposed course done at the IND/Home office.
However,we don't need to prove that she will return to Nigeria by january 2008,when i might be extending my leave to remain again as an in-country application as usual which i will include my wife as a dependant.
I am not a biritsh citizen and I don't think the early 90's issue is applicable to me in this regard.
However i plan to include my unconditional offer letter for my Phd commencing in jan 2008 to show continuation of studies.
Hope this is clear,or what do u feel?
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VOR (m)
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To my own view, you have a limited leave to remain, which does not add weight to your application at the moment, even if you have 10,000GBP in your bank statement.
@ VOR
How would you be able to convince the ECO that you actually intend for your wife to return to Nigeria after Jan2008, and or what ground is she going to the UK, when the spouse has a limited leave to remain?
I am talking like this because I have an uncle who is citizen who had the same experience in a way, that was even in the early 90's.
Just my own view again though.
@Mr Pataki .Even when he commences his ph.d he will still only have limited leave to remain. .She is going to the UK as the spouse of a student, there is provision for this in the UK immigration rules. .The ECO would not have given Dada the EC if it was not believed he would return to Nigeria after his studies, so unless Mrs Dada gives them cause to believe she will not return at the same time as her husband they have no valid grounds to refuse her an EC in line with Mr Dada provided he meets all the other criteria. |
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VOR (m)
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@Dada
You can't include your wife on an application at the Home Office
unless she is already in the country. An application made in the UK
is for leave to remain, which your wife can't get. She will have to apply
for leave to enter form Nigeria. That is why I said you/she has
to apply in line with your current conditions till Jan 2008.
When she arrives you can then both apply to the Home Office for an extension
based on your proposed ph.d. I wouldn't even send a letter to the UK embassy
about your ph.d because this would suggest that neither you or your wife are
planning to leave the UK at the end of your Msc. An ECO who goes strictly by the
book may refuse for this.
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vikiviko (m)
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.Recent Bank statements to prove your ability to support both of you.
.Evidence of suitable accommodation, eg rental agreement.
.Certified copy of your passport's bio data page and perhaps your student visa page.
. A letter of confirmation from your university confirming you are duly enrolled.
. Proof of your marriage to each other, i.e marriage certificate.
. Covering letter from yourself.
. Any other documents you feel may be relevant to support the application.
These are basic support documents that you need to provide
But the most important issue as regards her case, you must also provide enough eveidence of your communication with her
Also she'll be conducted to an interview which will be a determinant factor .
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VOR (m)
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.Recent Bank statements to prove your ability to support both of you.
.Evidence of suitable accommodation, eg rental agreement.
.Certified copy of your passport's bio data page and perhaps your student visa page.
. A letter of confirmation from your university confirming you are duly enrolled.
. Proof of your marriage to each other, i.e marriage certificate.
. Covering letter from yourself.
. Any other documents you feel may be relevant to support the application.
These are basic support documents that you need to provide
But the most important issue as regards her case, you must also provide enough eveidence of your communication with her
Also she'll be conducted to an interview which will be a determinant factor . She might well be interviewed but as to proof of communication etc that would only be requested if there were doubts about the subsistence of their marriage. |
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dada77
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how do u prove evidence of communication when an average call card cost only £3.I mean i spend hours on the phone to talk with her.
I throw it open,what form of communication might they be asking for?
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vikiviko (m)
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What i meant is prove calls you have made, probably you send her some of the call cards.
And she too will hold some call cards here 2.
Believe me these consular are so daft that they can ask for anything.
Why am talking about communication is because the last application i doctored was refused on that ground.
Yours could be different, am sure your wife holds the ace on the day of the interview
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mrpataki (m)
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@ VOR,
You are quite right in every sense you know. Thanks a lot for the knowledge shared out here.
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VOR (m)
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@ VOR,
You are quite right in every sense you know. Thanks a lot for the knowledge shared out here.
No problem Mr Pataki, we are all here to learn and I have learnt lots from being here. Although I guess I have a small advantage. As I have said before I used to work within the system. |
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VOR (m)
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What i meant is prove calls you have made, probably you send her some of the call cards.
And she too will hold some call cards here 2.
Believe me these consular are so daft that they can ask for anything.
Why am talking about communication is because the last application i doctored was refused on that ground.
Yours could be different, am sure your wife holds the ace on the day of the interview
Don't see how possessing call cards will prove you have been in communication with a particular person. I would suggest that if the ECO does have any doubts then a telephone statement would be a better way of proving communication. In any case unless the ECO has grave doubts about the authenticity of the marriage certificate or the continuing subsistence of the marriage I can't see this being a problem. |
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vikiviko (m)
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If a telephone statement is available, i think it solves the problem.
Vor, thanks for your wonderful technical insight and input.
Mr Dada, whenever you are ready i can assist your wife in preparing her document,foc
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big_bumper (f)
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What i will do is to ask you a commonsensical question which goes thus . . .,
Na wah o, on top say person dey volunteer give you information?
if am doing a Msc course enroute Phd which is 1+3 years,and i don't want to come to nigeria to see my family(specifically my wife),what happens then?wait till i finish after 4years or ??
No be ya fault . . .
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big_bumper (f)
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@ VOR
You have the patience of a saint.
English1 and Loverbwoy were right in their reply and judging by Mrpataki's 33rd and 42nd post, he is still confused too.
The OP stated that he wanted to apply for a dependent visa and was not interested in a visiting visa, hence the reason their answers were tailored to this.
The OP's vociferous request "not processing visiting visa, need dependent visa" statement and "not coming to visit, to stay. . . " statement was made in post 2 and post 28 respectively.
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big_bumper (f)
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@Dada
You can't include your wife on an application at the Home Office
unless she is already in the country. . .
When she arrives you can then both apply to the Home Office for an extension
based on your proposed p.h.d. . .
@Vor Like I said earlier you have the patience, but you too are starting to get confused. Your interjection above is what he said he intended to do in an earlier post of his. |
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big_bumper (f)
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. . . I wouldn't even send a letter to the UK embassy
about your p.h.d because this would suggest that neither you or your wife are
planning to leave the UK at the end of your Msc. An ECO who goes strictly by the
book may refuse for this.
Thinking out aloud and turning things on its head, was this not the same reason mrpataki thought it best to defer till phd study with a duration of three years, rather than apply now with current course of study with "leave to remain" of only nine months? |
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mrpataki (m)
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Thinking out aloud and turning things on its head, was this not the same reason mrpataki thought it best to defer till phd study with a duration of three years, rather than apply now with current course of study with "leave to remain" of only nine months? Thank you big_bumper, you stated it out well. |
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VOR (m)
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@Big Bumper(the mind boggles  ) You are simply attempting to create confusion where none really exists. In what way are English and loverbwoy right. Dada made it clear in his second post what visa he required for his wife and it was in response to this (posts 5 and eight) that English/Loverbwoy made the assertion you have to be settled in the UK before your spouse can join you. That is catergorically wrong, YOU DON'T . I interjected, as you described, at the earliest opportunity to clarify that he cannot apply for his wife to come to the UK from inside the country.I cannot remember him making this point anywhere else other than at post 43. You perhaps need to think out louder. What I and Mr Pataki said were different. He does not believe that Dada should even apply during the currency of his present leave to remain till Jan 2008. I am saying to him go ahead and apply but only on the basis of his current status. Any application for further leave to remain should then be done in country once the madam arrives. All I have done here is to try to give Dada the best advice possible and try and correct any advice I consider to be wrong such as that given by English and sorry to say yourself as well. It is of course open to Dada to check out the advice I have given from people who are paid to give such advice but I am confident mine is broadly correct. I'D be interested to hear further from Dada on this point. |
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VOR (m)
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Thank you big_bumper, you stated it out well.
In addition to what I stated above Mr Pataki based his advice on the fact that Dada had only limited leave to remain in the UK and so therefore it would be unlikely his madam would be granted a dependant visa. He then went on to say Dada should wait to start his PHD before applying. My answer to this was and still is, even with his phd he will still only have limited leave to remain albeit a longer period. |
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English1 (f)
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'had only limited leave to remain in the UK and so therefore it would be unlikely his madam
would be granted a dependant visa.'
That's exactly what I was saying. So am I right or wrong now?
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VOR (m)
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'had only limited leave to remain in the UK and so therefore it would be unlikely his madam
would be granted a dependant visa.'
That's exactly what I was saying. So am I right or wrong now?
Wrong I'm afraid and here hopefully to clear the matter up once and for all are the Immigration Rules which permit a student to have his /her spouse join during the course of study: Requirements for leave to enter or remain as the spouse or civil partner of a student or prospective student
76. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom as the spouse or civil partner of a student or a prospective student are that::
(i) the applicant is married to or the civil partner of a person admitted to or allowed to remain in the United Kingdom under paragraphs 57-75 or 82-87; and
(ii) each of the parties intends to live with the other as his or her spouse or civil partner during the applicant's stay and the marriage or the civil partner of is subsisting; and
(iii) there will be adequate accommodation for the parties and any dependants without recourse to public funds; and
(iv) the parties will be able to maintain themselves and any dependants adequately without recourse to public funds; and
(v) the applicant does not intend to take employment except as permitted under paragraph 77 below; and
(vi) the applicant intends to leave the United Kingdom at the end of any period of leave granted to him.
Leave to enter or remain as the spouse or civil partner of a student or prospective student
77. A person seeking leave to enter or remain in the United Kingdom as the spouse or civil partner of a student or a prospective student may be admitted or allowed to remain for a period not in excess of that granted to the student or prospective student provided the Immigration Officer or, in the case of an application for limited leave to remain, the Secretary of State is satisfied that each of the requirements of paragraph 76 is met. Employment may be permitted where the period of leave granted to the student or prospective student is, or was, 12 months or more. |
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dada77
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@all
I am positively overwhemled by the intellectual "jaw-jaw",not "war-war" been displayed on this topic.It's has further informed all and sundry on issues that we may seem to be naive and leprotic about.Nevertheless,all contributors had paraded their poise and logical stregths as regards clearly defining and buttressing their points on matters arising from the dependants visa.
Now,most things had been put straight to facilitate this processing or rather application,but I would want us to remember that "If you fight,you may win or lose,but if you don't fight at all you have lost"The applicability and relevance of my saying is that my application is not "trial and error" based,so therefore I am not fighting,but rather applying for a "ready-made" legal and immigration provision on depedants visa(joining the spouse later).
Now there are two pertinent and imperative issues to be conclusively considered and also taking note of the balance of probabilities on this application,as stated below:
1)If I provide my bank statements here in UK showing availabilty of funds,the ECO might request to know the origin and source of the funds,what happens then?This might not occur, be a boys scout, but "BE PREPARED".
2)If I apply by June/July and my current leave to remain expires by January 2008 and also not including my Phd acceptance letter in the application,the logical conclusion might arise that why have you decided to bring in your wife while you are few months away from graduation (September-November).
3)If she is granted the dependants visa around June/July possibly she would have about 7-8 months visa,then does this tantamount to the law that she might not be allowed to work since she was granted for less than 12 months.Hope am not contradicting myself.
Any addition,subtraction,criticism from nairalanders?
The door is flung open for this stimulating piece of debate.
Dada.
Kent,Uk
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