Hell Fire Does Not Exist According To Jehovah's Witnesses. Is That True?

Hey Guys both Muslim and Christian,Does Hell fire Exist?i'm seating in front of my house on sunday when some Jeovan withess come to preach for me and we started talking at the end of the talking they are telling me that Hell fire does not exist and God does not have Plan to put anyone in hell fire and we started Argument and they ask me if i have ever come accross any where in the bible that God  says sinners we go to hell fire and they also ask me that i can not have children and just because they offend me and throw them in the fire thats is not possible they end up convicing me that hell fire does not exist then i started thinking that which bible does orther churches read that make them say hell fire exist?because i use to watched some christian film where people who do Bad things are put in Hell fire ?

if Hell Fire Exist t ,which chapter and Verse is it in the bible ?still have more to post here.

wow! didnt know that.lets wait , The judgement day is starting to scare me oo, heaven is real,  hell is real,  yall nee to watch JVI on Tbn

JVI - Jack Van Impe.

I enjoy Hal Lindsey as well.

HELL BELLS should make careless souls think - very revealing.

Hi @Viable,


Did the Bible describe the lake of fire in Rev. 20:10 as an event and not a place? Were the devil and his rebellious host cast into an event or into a place?


Where did the Bible say "UNTIL" it has consumed every sinner, when in fact it says day and night for ever and ever?


We don't read of what you described in Isaiah 24:1-6. The 6th verse says: "Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." The earth and lake of fire are not the same place; nobody is left who is cast into the lake of fire.


The Jehovah Witnesses are doubly wrong. The lake of fire is described in Scripture as a place into which the devil and his rebellious host will be cast. That event occurs at the final judgement.

u are stimulus , don't mind the fella oo, may the lord open his eyes, next thing his is going to be saying  is  :-\that heaven is also an event , lord have mercy!!!

Just a brief answer because i'm past my bedtime. God is just, He is a God of justice, therefore he will not leave the guilty unpunished. In our human systems we have courts and all that, and we do not complain about why evil, guilty men need to be punished by a prison sentence.

However, that is a small part of the story, the greater part of the story is that in Rom 3: 23 -26 and Eph. 2:1-7. In the former verse, Jesus, who was sinless, was shown to have died as a propitiation for us sinful men, and took upon himself our sin (2Cor 5: 21, Isaiah 53:6) and thus the punishment we deserve, so that we who have beleived in him are justified and declared righteous and free from guilt and condemnation. Also, see John 3:16.
So although God is Love and full of mercy, He is also a God of Justice.

God has done so much for us in Christ Jesus that the question of hell should not even arise if we respond properly to the gospel message in faith and obedient acceptance of his gift of grace. It is not God's will that any man should perish (2Pet 2:9, John 3:17). Hell was not originally prepared for man but for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) However, people who reject God's salvation declare themselves enemies of God and willingly remain followers of the devil thereby earning the same punishment (John 3: 18 - 21, Eph. 2:1-7)

Hope you understand. Pray you accept His gracious gift of life. Cheers.

what exactly is your point? Is it that GOd does not forgive? you need to read the story of Paul to answer that or if that is not enough, i can tell you my own story. Or that human systems don't punish indefinitely? Do you live on this planet; ever heard of 'life imprisonment without the possibility of parole'? Your question was how a loving God can punish sinners. And i've answered you that it is because He is also a Holy and a Just God. He administers justice. Is that too hard to understand?
God has set limits within which a man can recieve forgiveness and therefore escape indefinite punishment. that limit is called 'time'. within the human time frame, a man can obtain forgiveness. but once a man dies, he has lost his capacity to ask for forgiveness, and thus brings upon himself eternal damnation. Heb.9.27 "People die once, and after that they are judged"

why would Jesus have had to die to save sinful men? Are you actually asking a question or trying to sound wise? I've explained why Jesus had to die; if you bothered to read the scriptures i put it would help. Let me restate; man sinned, and deserved to be punished. God, who is rich in mercy, knew that man, in his own natural effort, can never live above sin, therefore he sent his son who lived a sinless life and on the cross he bore man's sin and therefore the consequences of our sin ie punishment for our sins. But because he is God, death could not hold him captive and He rose again breaking the power of sin and death and setting free from sin those who beleive in Him. Is that enough? you might need to read ROmans, Hebrews, Ephesians to understand the details. i just paraphrased the whole thing because that's the whole christian message.
Isn't the Christian GOd all-powerful? Meaning what? I don't get your drift - do you mean he should in his 'all powerfulness' make us all holy or make us obey him or what? He made human beings, not puppets, that they should choose Him of their own free will.
Also, isn't the "sacrifice" a tad redundant considering the vast majority (and we're talking billions and billions) of people will end up in hell?
Wow. I'm baffled by this statement. Let me give an analogy, you discover a drug that cures AIDs, then when you are about to market the drug, it was brought to your notice that some people will not buy the drug. Because some people (as always) will doubt the drug's potency, will you decide not to market the drug? How illogical is that?
Morever, how many times do we have to say that God DOES NOT want anyone to perish. 2Pet3;9. Even if it was only one sinner on earth, He would still have come down to die. your statement is severely flawed; the fact that some people choose to reject him doesn't mean that He shouldnt do the right thing. it only shows that people choose to reject him without cause conjuring up reasons when there isn't any.
Please check your statements before you make them. Omniscient means all-knowing. It does not mean all-influencing. He knew all things. He didnt make man sin. NO. Man sinned and earned his punishment. Hell was prepared for the devil and his followers. When you reject God, you automatically become a follower of the devil and thus are consigned to the same fate. Your assumption is baseless.
I hope i'm wrong but reading your post, I don't really think you want answers, you seem to want arguments. My answer was clear enough and your responses were not even related to what i wrote. I don't know your beleifs or convictions so i don't know where you are coming from mentally; i don't give myself to irrelevant arguments. so if you really are interested in gaining knowledge, ask relevant questions.  maybe you can let me know what your perspective is so i can answer more pointedly. cheers

Not so much a point as a question: how can eternal torment be reconciled with love? Does God forgive? Apparently, not after one has died and sometimes not if the leader of one's tribe or society has been "bad".

Also, I was careful to specify that humans can and do show clemency when "when there is a chance for repentance and rehabilitation". The idea of eternal punishment for grossly evil things like not belonging to the right religion or telling a white lie for example, leaves neither the opportunity for redemption nor does it even seem justified. Justice is meting out punishment for a crime or wrong fairly, singly and with the aim of hopefully changing the person or keeping society safe. Those aren't done with omniscience in the human system, but they are usually effective and fair.


That's part of the point, why have a time limit? A time limit that condemns, once again, the vast majority, even the contrite, to infinite, unending punishment. Sounds neither like justice nor love.


Asking a question.


The point of the question was why would an omnipotent God need to have "himself" die temporarily after billions of years of earth time and thousands of years of human life to save humans from something he either ochestrated or knew was going to happen? It all seems rather melodramatic and unnecessary. I have read the Bible, but I got lost somewhere between God is love and damn you all to hell. Also, and I hope this isn't off-topic, what exactly is/are the sins moral humans (that is, the moral non-christians) have committed that they deserve to be punished for? And are children included in the whole deserving punishment thing, too?




No, it isn't enough. First, why can't humans live above "sin"? There have been many incidents and reporst of people who have lived moral and blameless lives. They managed it. Furthemore, without really understanding what sin means to you, it is arguable that people could possibly need to be punished for their "sins"; however, I don't see how eternal punishment can be a justified punishment.


I have.


Not quite. I meant something along the lines of "Why would an omnipotent God need to have "himself" die temporarily after billions of years of earth time and thousands of years, etc?" Also, he really doesn't have to make humans puppets to get his point or across or to give a better chance for choice (remember, people are sceptical for a reason).



May I suggest that your analogy doesn't quite fit the situation as I've heard it told. It's more like alledgedly discovering the cure for AIDS, after alledgedly creating or causing AIDS. Then, after pointedly refusing to divulge how I got the cure and to show actual evidence of the cure (I tell people to just have faith), I go through a bizzare and paradoxical procedure that involves most of the intended target not even knowing that the cure exists. Did I also mention that after marketing the drug, the effects of the cure on people can't be distinguished from those who haven't been cured nor from those who used the drugs of other healers I assure you are quacks. Is it illogical? Perhaps.


Let's just say for the omnipresent, omnipotent and omniscient deity he has being alledged to be, he's doing a rather poor job of not wanting anyone to perish.
 


The statement or question sought to explore the concept of an omniscient God doing an implausible deed to save people from a relatively intangible thing and doing it in a way that elicits rejection by a good number and is unknown by others.


You mean the reasons like: "wait, where's the evidence for such an extraordinary claim", "that makes absolutely no sense, why would God have to sacrifice himself to himself" and all those others that point to the disreprancies aren't real reasons and are just conjured up out of spite or something?


Maybe you should look up the meaning of omniscient. According to Christian theology (at least the one that preaches omni-deity), God knows the outcome of everything, knew even before creating humans what would happen with humans and knows/knew the end result of every human - do you see where I'm going with this? - and generally planned it all. It stands to reason, logically, that if hell was planned for the Devil and his followers (by the way, by follower, I thought you meant demons), then God did plan and design for humans (the majority as the case turns out) to end up in hell. That brings us back to my initial question - how can that be reconciled with love?

By the way, would the people who didn't reject the Christian God but ended up committing some sin or the other before death be considered followers of the Devil?


I wasn't; it was based on primarily on interpreting "followers" as demons.


I want discussion and answers. Read into that what you will.


Your response was clear, but, like I mentioned, didn't really address my question. Also, I just quickly re-read my responses, they were all related to what you wrote.


I'm a struggling atheist; my questions - at least most of them - have been relevant and related to both the thread and your post; I'm always interested in gaining knowledge; and my perspective is, while I have seen no way to reconcile eternal torment with omniscience and omnibenevolence, maybe some other person could attempt it or point out a way before I consider it a closed subject (in my mind).

@ KAG,
now, reading your post, the second issue i'D address is the issue of sin and redemption.
this is an overwhelmingly broad subject and so, in order not to write a whole book here, i'D just address the concerns you raised.

when Adam sinned, he became enslaved to sin. what that means is that, he lost the ability to not do what is wrong and it became 'natural' for him to do wrong. before then, doing what is wrong like lying or stealing (just examples) was unnatural ie it wasnt the standard course of events.  After Adam became aware of good and evil, however, he naturally gravitated towards evil - because he lacked the power (we now know that ability is the power of holiness, which is the very nature of God) to choose to do good when the option of evil is present. Now, although, he was made in the image of God and was innocent, every man that came after him took up the image of Adam which was a sinful nature. (Compare Gen. 5;1 to Gen 5;3)

Now coming to the issue of morality; i used to be a moralist at one point in my life so i can understand. there are many problems with this. when a man decides to be moral, he does good things and to an extent doesn't do wickedness. But the 1st thing to note is this; who sets the rules of right or wrong? the creature or the creator? if it has to be the creator, then we must understand His terms. You see, when an action takes place, eg helping somebody, GOd does not look at the action, rather he looks at the source of the actions. we are selfish beings, moral or not. so when i help somebody as a moralist, my ego is satisfied, i feel good with myself and i can actually boast that i am good. to me i've done something good; but before God i've done nothing, because i have acted from my own selfishness and while my action is deemed by man to be good, i've fallen into another pit - self-pride which God abhors 1Pet 5.5
the second issue with morality is that; you can't always do what is right. At one point you'D do wrong. Now GOd's requirement is so stringent that, at any point where a man does wrong, he is adjudged guilty of all. (James 2: 10) So much that, in God's eyes, soemone who kills a man is just as guilty as one who tells a lie. that is why, with God, it is not a matter of 'my good outweighs my bad therefore i shouldnt be punished'
it is a matter of 'be Holy' rather than 'be moral'. God (and GOd alone) is Holy (by nature). like i said i've lived a moral life, but while i did so, i came across people who were filled with God's Holy Spirit (who is the One who enables one to live above sin AND self) and therefore lived a Holy life and i was severely convicted (ie i felt guilt) of the shallowness of my so-called morality. You see, when you get a glimpse of God, or come in contact with people who 'carry' GOd, you'D be humbled and you'D realise that your morality is at best filthy (Isaiah 64;6) that is why people that know God and walk with Him undergo more stricter judgement because God expects more from them. and thus what constitutes 'sin' to them might not necessarily be 'sin' to the average man (eg Moses) but i can't go into this now.

now you might wonder, if GOd is so strict, who then can meet his requirements? who can be 'saved'? (Mark 10; 26-27) and the inevitable answer is NONE by his own strength or effort (Rom 3;20 Weymouth translation "For on the ground of obedience to Law no man living will be declared righteous before Him. Law simply brings a sure knowledge of sin"). No man can meet God's requirements. the purpose of laws (and especially the old testament) was to show man that he NEEDS God. thus the first thing to realise is that we NEED GOd in order to live a pure life. but then, the requirements MUST be met, and that was why Jesus came. He lived a sinless life 1Pet.2.22 and therefore He met God's requirement (for the first time since creation). that was why GOd testified about him before the jews saying 'this is my beloved SOn, with him i am well pleased, Hear him (or TAKE HEED UNTO him).  

So this is where the gospel message comes in. Jesus did many things on the cross, first he took the punishment for our sins 1 Pet 3;18, 1Pet 2;24-25 (somebody had to pay; if not us, then him; so, as foreshadowed in the old testament in leviticus, he became the 'scape goat' that took our punishment) so because he took our punishment by shedding his blood, we CAN receive forgiveness of sins from GOd. Col. 1;13-14
the other thing he did was to bear our SIN. 2Cor 5;21, Rom 6;6. ie the nature that came upon every child of Adam such that we naturally do what is wrong. He did this so that, those of us that receive Him would lose our desire for what is wrong (which is the power that sin has over us) and we can then willingly choose right.
He also took upon him our SELF. (that I, I, I in our actions) ie the part of us that considers himself above others. because he lay down ourselves for us, we can lay ourSELVES unto him and can learn to deny ourself whenever we are faced with decisions.  2Cor 5:15
furthermore he filled us with His Spirit, who empowers us to live a holy life (Rom 8;4 and Rom 8;9)
the net effect of all this is to make a new creation of men on earth; Titus 2;14 men who do not sin 1John 3; 9-10 (not that they CANNOT sin, but they don't CONTINUE in sin), who do not think of themselves but lay down their lives for him 2Cor 5;15 and above all, who have  a relationship with their creator. 2Cor 5;18-20
after doing all these things, that was when he was able to say 'it is finished' because all the issues that seperated man from God before he came had been addressed.

Now, if after you one hears the gospel, which is what i just said above, God expects (like he expected from Adam in the garden) that men accept his free gift (or rather his REMEDY). but if man rejects this offer, then what he is saying is 'i don't need you' , i will do it by myself. Now GOd's standard for judgement does not change, and so that man is expected to live by God's standard (which is impossible) so that is why people get condemned.
Now for those who never heard the gospel, the standard of judgement is different and it is explained in Romans 2.

SO, what i'D say is, the gospel is not about damnation, it is the GOOD NEWS. its about SALVATION. what happens is that some uninformed men distort the message by preaching about fire and destruction thus causing people to recoil in fear. when i got to understand the gospel, i believed it and i was saved Eph.1:13, Eph 2;8-9 now i have a very much clearer understanding of life that i didn't have before but beyond that, i am a TRANSFORMED person. 2Cor 5:17
SO if you have anymore questions, let me know, or if you want to accept Him, let me know as well so i can explain further. God bless.

nb, i'D recommend you read Romans 10.

@ KAG,
i had two posts; i don't think you read the prior post, perhaps it would answer some of your questions.

@Bobbyaf,


Where in Scripture does it say that the earth itself is the lake of fire?


Where in the verses offered does it say: "UNTIL"??

How long exactly will the lake of fire last - one day, two weeks, a month??


Does the Bible present the punishment with the lake of fire as a slight punishment just because God is LOVE?


Where in Scripture does the Bible say that earth is the lake of fire?

@Bobbyaf,

I suspected you would quickly reference II Pet. 3:10 in your reply. However, if we're going to read what it says without favouring a partial view, here's another look at the context:

(a) that verse mentions the HEAVENS as well the EARTH.

(b) reading from verse 7 shows clearly that the HEAVENS also will be on fire:

      "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store,
      reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

(c) See verse 12 as well:

                             "Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God,
                              wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved,
                              and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

To those who are quick to quote II Pet. 3:10 to argue for the earth being the lake of fire, my question is:

           Are the HEAVENS also the same location as the LAKE OF FIRE?

You cannot quickly use that verse to teach that the EARTH itself is the lake of fire, whereas vs. 7 mentions the HEAVENS in the same connection as what is stated in verse 10.


I do not find the word 'UNTIL' remotely suggested there; and those introducing that idea are doing so simply to force their own interpretation into Scripture.


That being the case, I do not see the idea of an "UNTIL" even when read contextually.


Since you do not know, try not suggesting what Scripture does not teach.


I figured you would tow that line of response. God's love and justice does allow Him to pour out His wrath on evil; and any idea of euphemizing His indignation is simply humanistic reasoning.


I repeated my question for your repeated assertion.

@Bobbyaf,


That is hardly the sense meant there at all. The apostle Peter was not giving us any idea that translates into the immediate atmosphere defiled by man's activities. Reading II Pet. 3:4-5 clearly indicates what the apostle was pointing out: it was none other than the heavens mentioned in the same sense that we read of in Gen. 1:1.


That is a queer way of reneging on your earlier assertion. You had clearly stated:


. . . and on that assertion my queries followed. I do not see it taught in Scripture the way you are trying to persuade readers to think.


You haven't made any new statement other than rephrased the same thing stated earlier to interprete the EARTH as the same location as the LAKE OF FIRE. That idea is not taught in the Bible; and the apostle Peter's epistle does not teach that.


Which still does not carry any weight in the idea of an "UNTIL" that does not exist in the verses you cited.


I nowhere suggested the idea of "allowing evil to exist indefinitely", so please don't bring in a cheap misconstruction where it does not exist in my responses.


Now, who finally is suggesting that the sin problem would never be solved??   Trying ever so desperately to misread issues never helps you argument. I did NOT suggest it, and good for you if that's what you've been holding unto; but that is nowhere taught in the Bible.


Again, please go through your responses before posting them. My query is about your assertion that the EARTH ITSELF would be THE LAKE OF FIRE. Now if that is the idea that the apostle taught (which clearly was not), then my next question followed:

Are the HEAVENS also the same location as the LAKE OF FIRE?

I don't see how you've answered that question, other than circling round it in order to make Peter say what he did not say in the first place!

@ Stimulus

Can you do me a favour?

1. Can you locate all those texts that suggest that the lake of fire will be indefinite?

2. After you have located those texts can you compare them to the original transcript in Greek and say if any of those translations fit the original transcript or not. In other words can you be 100% certain that the expressions you utillise to support an everlasting hell fire are honest translations of the original?

Looking forward to your research.

They don’t know where hell is, or if such a place really exists. They can’t even decide what hell is. Which one is it? Is it the lake of fire (Revelation 20:10) or the pit (Revelation 11:7) or is it a place where you will be given oozing pus to drink like the Koran describes (Koran 14:16), or a place where you will be roasted (Koran 17:18), or a prison (Koran 17:8)? Also, how did the pit get there? How did a big place of fire get beneath us? Did God create it down there? Why is it that scientists haven’t discovered it yet being they have dug holes straight down to the center of the Earth? Why is it that you can’t find hell if it really is a place that exists? Scientists have listened to the ground, they have all kinds of advanced technical equipment with computers. Have they heard crackling fires? No!!! Why? Because hell is a state of mind. It is what you make it. It exists within you, for each one will pattern his or her hell according to what he believes hell is. They don’t hear anybody down there screaming and hollering or any torturing. So what makes you believe that there is some place “down there” that you will go if you are a sinner where there is fire and demons? The Bible? Let’s be for real! There is nothing in the Bible that has been proven to be facts yet. You can’t even prove that the characters in your Bible really exists, let alone a place called hell! The hell that your Preachers, Teachers, Pastors, Rabbis, Imaams, and Sheiks preach to you about is another trick to keep you trapped under religion