|
nferyn (m)
|
@ Olorididan That's a novel account, I've never heard of that justification for the existence of the devil and the problem of evil. Could you explain what time is relative to and what time actually is? It is impossible to understand your reasoning without these concepts being properly defined. Also, operation by God means operation on something that is timeless. Can you explain that process? In order for time to exist and for things to work relative to and within time, we that exist within time must exist within the beginning and the end set for us. In other words, we must be born (beginning), stay alive, grow, reproduce, grow old and die(end). This applies to all existence... Humans, plants, animals, planets, stars, galaxies..... Everything that takes place within that period MUST BE TO JUSTIFY GOD'S PERFECTION! Why? What indications do you have that this is the case? Basically what you're saying is that the imperfect (do you define perfection as being a-temporal?) is there to justify perfection? What is your yardstick for perfection and why does perfection need justification? How? Well because we exist in time and everything in time is relative, then we CANNOT BE BORN PERFECT... Our "Perfection" must be AN UNENDING PROCESS where we constantly and consistently go from worse to good to better to best... The catch is that what was best (or perfect) 100 years ago is now worst (relatively). AND SO THIS PROCESS OF UNENDING ETERNAL IMPROVEMENT (OR ETERNAL PERFECTON) GOES ON AND ON. Again, relative to what? What is the nature of that relation? How do you determine improvement? Which brings us to the DEVIL. The DEVIL IS SIMPLY GOD'S INSTRUMENT USED TO ENFORCE AND PERPETUATE THAT PROCESS OF ETERNAL IMPROVEMENT (ETERNAL PERFECTION). Much like a Professor (God) has a PhD student (Devil) whom he teaches everything except the one to do with TIME, and then charges that student to ATTEMPT TO TAKE APART/DESTROY EVERYTHING HE PUTS TOGETHER. So basically, what you're saying is that the devil is not evil. Why is there a need for such a process to start with. This goes from the implicit assumption that perfection can be attained by humans and that God does not want us to reach that state. As you have not defined your basic concepts, this does not make sense. Ultimately the Devil fails because he does not know what God knows out of time, but in the process of doing his job of trying to destroy everything that God creates, what he's actually doing is making them better and better and better forever and ever.
What does know out of time mean? Why is that preventing the devil from succeeding? That is the essence of CHRISTIANITY...
Is it? Why? That you understand the role of the Devil and that he's simply an instrument in God's hands TO JUSTIFY HIS PERFECTION. For you to fully understand it, you must think beyond all the terrible things you see and experience, beyond desease, poverty, war, rape, crime.... beyond your life and MOST IMPORTANTLY BEYOND DEATH! Because if the Devil ever persuades you that there is no GOD then he will simply have proved you defective (NOT GOD)... UNTIL OF COURSE YOU COME TO THE REALISATION THAT YOU ARE GOD'S CREATION, THAT YOU ARE GOOD (as the Bible says) AND THAT GOD'S WISH AND PLAN FOR YOU IS TO GO FROM GOOD TO BETTER TO BEST. ITS YOUR CHOICE... ITS EVERYBODY'S CHOICE.... NOT THE DEVIL'S..... FUCK THE DEVIL!  Hugh? Anyway, this is reasoning from two entities (God and the Devil) that have not been defined, using concepts (eternal, time, relativity, perfection) that have not been defined, implying relations that have not been established. This is a prime example of intellectually sounding, unsubstantiated sloppy thinking. How do you think any of this can ever convince someone that values reason and logic? |
|
|
|
|
|
gbengaijot (m)
|
Do we need to be convinced before u believe?
|
|
|
|
|
|
chrisd (m)
|
Nfern is the atheists ambassador in Nairaland here  My personal motivations for entering in these debates are threefold:
1. I like the challenge of a discussion
2. I want to help in creating an environment where Nigerian freethinkers (atheists, agnostics, liberal theists) do not have to fear expressing themselves
3. I want to educate all those people that have no knowledge of what atheism really is about it's meaning and help remove prejudices against atheism and atheists
Why? because I hold the firm belief that rationality is the only way forward for the human species.
Do I think that anybody is listening? Yes, obviously some people dismiss my contributions, but I also have meaningful conversations with others. |
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
I thought the thread was about me and my unbelief?  |
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
Seun I'll let you into a secret. The reason why God created the Devil is very simple... TO JUSTIFY HIS PERFECTION Let me explain. The only power that God didn't give the Devil is the one of TIME! God is eternal... No beginning and no end. In other words he determines when some thing starts and when it stops. In other words God operates outside of time.. EVERYTHING ELSE INCLUDING THE DEVIL OPERATES WITHIN THAT TIME. Because everything operates within time and time is relative (Note Einstein's theory of relativity here... its more religion than science)... to God time isn't relative... He determines it. In order for time to exist and for things to work relative to and within time, we that exist within time must exist within the beginning and the end set for us. In other words, we must be born (beginning), stay alive, grow, reproduce, grow old and die(end). This applies to all existence... Humans, plants, animals, planets, stars, galaxies..... Everything that takes place within that period MUST BE TO JUSTIFY GOD'S PERFECTION! How? Well because we exist in time and everything in time is relative, then we CANNOT BE BORN PERFECT... Our "Perfection" must be AN UNENDING PROCESS where we constantly and consistently go from worse to good to better to best... The catch is that what was best (or perfect) 100 years ago is now worst (relatively). AND SO THIS PROCESS OF UNENDING ETERNAL IMPROVEMENT (OR ETERNAL PERFECTON) GOES ON AND ON. Which brings us to the DEVIL. The DEVIL IS SIMPLY GOD'S INSTRUMENT USED TO ENFORCE AND PERPETUATE THAT PROCESS OF ETERNAL IMPROVEMENT (ETERNAL PERFECTION). Much like a Professor (God) has a PhD student (Devil) whom he teaches everything except the one to do with TIME, and then charges that student to ATTEMPT TO TAKE APART/DESTROY EVERYTHING HE PUTS TOGETHER. Ultimately the Devil fails because he does not know what God knows out of time, but in the process of doing his job of trying to destroy everything that God creates, what he's actually doing is making them better and better and better forever and ever. That is the essence of CHRISTIANITY... That you understand the role of the Devil and that he's simply an instrument in God's hands TO JUSTIFY HIS PERFECTION. For you to fully understand it, you must think beyond all the terrible things you see and experience, beyond desease, poverty, war, rape, crime.... beyond your life and MOST IMPORTANTLY BEYOND DEATH! Because if the Devil ever persuades you that there is no GOD then he will simply have proved you defective (NOT GOD)... UNTIL OF COURSE YOU COME TO THE REALISATION THAT YOU ARE GOD'S CREATION, THAT YOU ARE GOOD (as the Bible says) AND THAT GOD'S WISH AND PLAN FOR YOU IS TO GO FROM GOOD TO BETTER TO BEST. ITS YOUR CHOICE... ITS EVERYBODY'S CHOICE.... NOT THE DEVIL'S..... FUCK THE DEVIL! Oloridadidan, you are not a Christian because your comments are unbiblical. According to the bible, the devil tempts people to sin against God and then when they die they end up in hell where they are tortured for ever and ever. How does hell fit into your long-winded explanatation of the purpose of the devil? Do people in hell also continually improve as they are being tortured for ever and ever? As for the devil being created to justify God's perfection, why does God need to justify his perfection and to whom? |
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
Seun, I've been around and i know you are passing through a phase. Pray that the unexplained evil you believe (while rejecting the good) will not gain control of your thoughts. I'm not rejecting good, I'm rejecting the idea of 'God'. I'm 'gooder' than many Christians and proud of it, too. Have you ever wondered what the world would be like if we are all forced to be what God wants? No different from the Angels my brother. God does not need more of that. He created you and i to have those that will FREELY love and worship Him. Ask the struggling man on the street if he'd rather be an angel and I can assure you that the answer would be "yes". But there is a problem with your argument: if angels don't have free will like humans then how did Lucifer turn bad? Perhaps the 'good' God created him to be bad from day one? Below is a post from a Christian site which might help to answer some of your questions.
God does exist, what happens is people don't go to Him and do not look for Him. That's why there's so much pain and suffering in the world. Are you saying that if we all believe in God there will be no natural disasters, diseases, accidents, and all the other things that bring pain and suffering in this world and are not caused by a deliberate human intention to do evil? And why aren't Christians - at least those who have gone to the Barber - free of pain and suffering? |
|
|
|
|
|
otokx (m)
|
am still waiting for a comment on the "change of faith"
the average christian actually propagates a shallow materialistic gospel which if exposed to an empirical investigation will not hold true. one thing i am sure of is that He is with me even when i pass through the troubles and cares of this world and that cannot be disputed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
nferyn (m)
|
@ otokx
There is no gospel that will hold true after being subjected to a thorough empirical and rational investigation.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
How did your family react to your change of faith? Were you raised in a Christian family? I am comfortable with discussing my change of faith with friends, but am unwilling to share it with my family because I don't want to hurt them, especially my mom. So, share. First they tried to kick against it by forcing me to go to church, then they compromised on that after many loud confrontations, but still they reminded me at every turn that I will never succeed without God. Now that I am succeeding a little bit my dad is telling his friends about my 'popular website' while still insisting that I cannot have lasting success without God. Bummer. |
|
|
|
|
|
exu (m)
|
How do your parents (Seun) explain those who slavishly follow Christian doctrine but who fail/struggle at everything in life???
|
|
|
|
|
|
cutebaby
|
I think Mr. Seun needs prayers....
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
Exu: They don't. But my mom sometimes says that you don't know who is really serving God, implying that those that say they serve God but are poor are actually doing some bad things in private.
cutebaby: What I want from you is money, not prayers.
|
|
|
|
|
|
chrisd (m)
|
I agree with Seun
|
|
|
|
|
|
tassmal (m)
|
seun if u look for someone or something to prove to you that God exist or if u try to use logic or reason to prove God i may not be able to help u. but i sometimes wonder why any of us never question why should there be good.. why should the world not be all bad. why does good exist.
God because he is God gave man, angels, something called free will. he doesnt want robots or people forced to serve him. it is our choice.
those who seek him will be found by him.
he created us with choice. all of us no matter how far from him are given an opportunity to chose between him / devil. he will not force u. he will only ask.
behold i stand at the door of your heart and knock. if any man hears my voice and OPENS the door, i will come in and dine with him and him with me.
the bible says that.
he that comes to God must believe he exists and is a rewarder on them who deligently seek him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
tassmal, why did God have to create the devil in the first place when he knows that the devil will lead manyu people astray and they will be thrown into hell for ever and ever? Isn't such a God simply being wicked? Afterall no one forced him to create an evil devil in the first place?
Would a good father give his child the "free will" to fall into a well and break his neck? Would a loving father nonchalantly tell his daughter, "feel free to obey me or not obey me" and then shoot seven times in the head when she eventually decides not to obey him? And if God is real but not loving as he claims to be, then can we really believe anything he says, assuming he exists?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Enigma (m)
|
Seun
The questions you ask are legitimate and they are good questions. The problem is they are predicated on only one view of God, one view of Christianity and one way of understanding the Bible.
There are other ways of understanding God, there are other Christian views and there are other ways of understanding the Bible.
I daresay you reach a conclusion that there is no God based on the evidence or logic presented by some people. For example, some people say God will send sinners to hell - based on that you say since God allowed sin into the world (i.e. if omnipotent He should have prevented it) is it fair for Him to send sinners into hell.
But you see, to conclude on that basis that there is no God is to assume that the people who presented the view that God will send sinners to hell are right in the first place. It is also to accept their theory of how sin entered into the world e.g. this idea of free will is everything (when free will is at best only a part of the picture)
What you should do instead is study wider ---- about various conceptions of God and sin and all these issues. You will be surprised that even within the Christian faith (especially today) many people reject the view of a God ready to send people to "hell" willy nilly.
For example a proper study of the Bible throws a lot of doubt on the understanding of "hell" that most people have as a place where people burn forever. Even I will not do that to my wayward child let alone a kind God. What you will find is that a number of different Jewish/Aramaic/Greek words are translated into the confusing English "hell". For example, one of those words simply meant the place where the ancient Israelites burned their rubbish.
Many Christians will tell you that the Bible says Jesus Christ came to save the whole world and to reconcile all things including creation and that, in doing that, God has worked out how everyone will be redeemed. Only we don't know how. For example, the Catholics use the idea of purgatory - which many people criticise out of ignorance and without understanding.
Many Christians, like me, will tell you we don't know exactly how He will do it (whether by purgatory or not) but we trust God to do what is right even if beyond our present understanding. We say the same way Abraham said: "shall not the God/judge of the whole earth do right"?
In summary, I am saying by all means challenge the existence of God, but do not do it on the wrong premise: "them say". Do it on the basis of your own knowledge, understanding and reasoning.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
Enigma, let's be fortright here. Are you saying that hell does not exist based on the bible? Then read this page and tell me what you think. Anyway, if there's no hell then there's nothing to worry about  Read and enjoy this piece I found on the Internet:
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative: Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them: When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html
Can you see what's wrong with the bible? I especially find the part where God patiently explains the proper process for parents who want to sell their daughters into slavery. |
|
|
|
|
|
gbade. x (m)
|
Which brings us to the DEVIL. The DEVIL IS SIMPLY GOD'S INSTRUMENT USED TO ENFORCE AND PERPETUATE THAT PROCESS OF ETERNAL IMPROVEMENT (ETERNAL PERFECTION). Much like a Professor (God) has a PhD student (Devil) whom he teaches everything except the one to do with TIME, and then charges that student to ATTEMPT TO TAKE APART/DESTROY EVERYTHING HE PUTS TOGETHER. Ultimately the Devil fails because he does not know what God knows out of time, but in the process of doing his job of trying to destroy everything that God creates, what he's actually doing is making them better and better and better forever and ever. I do not agree with this. you sound more philosophical than spiritual as the need be. besides, if you read the Bible, satan rebelled and was kicked out from heaven. with him he took a "third of the stars" meaning a third of angels and landed on earth. he deceived adam and eve into ddisobeying God and has continued to wage war against mankkind.. how can he, the devil be an instrument in God's hand when he his God's advesary? true, God operates outside time, and he does allow some of the b ad things that happen to us to be perpertrated by the devil. but that does not mean God uses him as an instrument. if you say so, then it means you are saying God is unjust and heartless, which He isn't. |
|
|
|
|
|
gbade. x (m)
|
Enigma, let's be fortright here. Are you saying that hell does not exist based on the bible? Then read this page and tell me what you think. Anyway, if there's no hell then there's nothing to worry about Read and enjoy this piece I found on the Internet:
Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative: Dear Dr. Laura: Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them: When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself? A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here? Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging. http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html
Can you see what's wrong with the bible? I especially find the part where God patiently explains the proper process for parents who want to sell their daughters into slavery. i would like to ask you a question seun. do you read your Bible? and even if you did so, do you twist the words of the Bible to your own liking and human judgement as did the east coast resident? i would like you to know as at then, the israelites were camping out in a wilderness not on a BLOODY STREET OR NEIGHBOURHOOD as the east coast resident misinterpreted.so it was easy for the jews to sacrifice sacred animals without disturbing fellow jews you must also take for note that that was in the Old Testament and is only applicable in the time of the Old testament. Jesus' coming was in the time of the New testament. Jesus himself said he did not come to oppose the Old testamdent laws handed down from God to moses and hebrews, but rather to modify, so to say, change some the laws (most he did change. we don't have to make sacrifices anymore).so in this time what that east coast resident wrote is not a law applied in this time and generation also i would like you to also note, that this was, once again, this was an Old testament time. the issue of slavery then was not as it is seen in this present world. for example,, in Proverbs, it is said: spare the rod and spoil the child, meanwhile this present day, that Bible passage would be met by wolf cries from the western world calling it child abuse ( spanking is still praticed in africa though |
|
|
|
|
|
Enigma (m)
|
Seun
Just a quick reply
1. You are still relying on what other people say --- with your two examples
2. You need to read and understand the Bible for yoursel --- related to that you need a better study and understanding of theology; including different shades of understanding within christian theology as well as outside christian theology
3. You also need some tools on how to read and understand the Bible --- and there are various ways. For example, you refer to Leviticus and make a good point that it suggests God says "xyz" but if you understand the Bible well especially the New Testament, you will realise that some of the laws that Moses gave (including some where it suggests "God says xyz"), Jesus actually said it was Moses that gave them to the people. For liberal types of Christians like me, we see a lot of the Old Testament as simply revealing Israelite understanding at the particular time and sometimes they were even wrong as Jesus showed time and time again.
Let me give you an example from the present: one pastor recently said that there was meant to be 49 plane crashes in Nigeria implying that God told him that. Well, many of Christians like me do not believe him and believe it to be the workings of his mind (whether honestly or dishonestly); we cannot therefore hold God responsible for His misrepresentation by man.
It all depends on the way of understanding the Bible.
I do not want to force my own understanding on you. Rather I like you to study a lot more for yourself and not rely on various misrepresentations made by man.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
Enigma, your last post is intellectually dishonest and full of bull. You are trying to outsmart me without actually discussing any of the issues that have been raised. You know what? I don't think you know anything about the bible! If you did, you will have much more to say than "go and study your bible yourself very very well"
|
|
|
|
|
|
goodguy (m)
|
What's it about this "DISHONEST" thingy anyway? You once called me a dishonest debater. I asked you what makes me that, but you deleted my post. |
|
|
|
|
|
Enigma (m)
|
Seun
If that's the way you feel, that's fine by me. It's your call; wish you all the best.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Seun (m)
|
It means not being honest in a debate. Trying to win by being tricky or smart and not by being right.
Sorry, Enigma, but that is what you have been on this thread. You are probably nice in other aspects of life but here, no.
|
|
|
|
|
|
gbade. x (m)
|
in my opinion seun what you really need is counsel
as you are having doubts concerning your Christianity and the existence of God, seek other spiritually mature Christians in church and discuss the issue with t hem
|
|
|
|
|
|
nuru (m)
|
Seun, i hv not had time to contribute to the forum for some time but reading the title of this thread is drawing me out. I hv not even read other nairalander's postings on the subject but i must say please do not lead yourself to disbelieve in God. Whatever may be your reason, God is real and you can't but believe in Him.
|
|
|
|
|
|
nferyn (m)
|
Seun, i hv not had time to contribute to the forum for some time but reading the title of this thread is drawing me out. I hv not even read other Nairaland user's postings on the subject but i must say please do not lead yourself to disbelieve in God. Whatever may be your reason, God is real and you can't but believe in Him.
On what grounds do you claim that God is real? Did you ever meet him? |
|
|
|
|
|
chrisd (m)
|
Luigi Cascioli, a man who once studied for priesthood but became so disillusioned that he became a militant atheist instead, could end up causing a stir in the entire Christian community if a Catholic priest he is suing fails to prove in court that Jesus Christ did in fact exist.
Cascioli, the author of a book called The Fable of Christ, began legal proceedings against Father Righi three years ago in retaliation to the priest's denouncement of him in the parish newsletter for questioning Christ's historical existence.
And he has now got a judge in Viterbo, Italy, to set a preliminary hearing for the end of the month. Though the judge had earlier refused to take up the case, he was overruled by the Court of Appeal, which agreed that Cascioli had a reasonable case for his accusation that Father Righi was "abusing popular credulity".
Cascioli's contention is that the Church is misleading people, and that as there is no reliable evidence that proves that Jesus lived and died in 1st-century Palestine apart from the Gospel accounts, there is no real basis of the Christian faith.
He also argues that all the claims for the existence of Christ, other than the Bible, stem from authors who lived "after the time of the hypothetical Jesus" and were therefore not reliable witnesses.
Though the Vatican has refused to comment on the case, Father Righi, however, is confident that he will be able to prove Christ's existence beyond the shadow of a doubt.
|
|
|
|
|
|
nferyn (m)
|
This is typical behaviour for people that used to be theists, but because of one reason or another deconverted and found out that atheism is a more reasonable position. Because of what happened to them, they've got some sort of chip on their shoulder and become anti-theists. Although Cascioli may very well be correct on his facts (there is no definite historical evidence for the existence of Jesus), his motivations are a bit murky and all in all, his approach may be counter-productive. I find the case highly amusing and will try to follow the proceedings in the media |
|
|
|
|
|
chrisd (m)
|
I have a chip on both shoulders  So very balanced |
|
|
|
|
|
nferyn (m)
|
I have a chip on both shoulders So very balanced Fair and balanced, why don't you go and work for Fox news?  |
|
|
|
|
|
chrisd (m)
|
Don't want to get to Iraq and get killed
|
|
|
|
|
|
![Nairaland [Nigerian Forum] Home](http://www.nairaland.com/Themes/default/images/english/home.gif)
Author
