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samsilo (m)
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I said it before this is not about grammar or quotations.
Facts. I do not believe in this crap, some one prays and touches you, you end up unconscious.wake up and start talking a bout things no one else saw. You are not epileptic or psychotic prior to this incident. Explain( 2000BC, former recorded incident Saul on road to Damascus or where ever)
Gudnite. C ya tmrow.
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thesilent1 (m)
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sorry, but that was not a record of what you are refering to. what happened to saul was he fell as a result of the sudden brightness of the beam of light that suddenly appeared. if he was "under the power", how come he was having a conversation while being "under" (your claim)
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samsilo (m)
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I was not in the mood to continue this,I also said the grammar is not my issue.I know there are a lot of fake people , religions and what have you.
The fact remains, since most people are against religions like christianity which demands you give up some of your intellectual insight and believe(faith).
I just wanted to point out that there are things (powers) which do not require you to have faith, only that you see with your two eyes.
After seeing these things which defy your logic and reasoning,then you may understand why others have faith.
And I tell you, believe or not they exist, like I said before quite cheap.
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KAG (f)
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Thanks for your explanation but it fits what I already knew. Starnge then that what you wrote concerning atheists was far from the truth. Taking my statement as a no? Pretty much. Most of the people who recount some "unexplainable" occurence uusually get it from some other person. Maybe you did not get me.When I was 14 I and every one in my family made a vow not to ever get involved in what is referred to as Juju, voodoo or jazz. Where i come from it is not an imaginary thing or fable. Still sounds like a "no, I haven't personally seen voodoo practised". Like all things evil it comes cheap ,maybe you are not Nigerian but 5000naira is about £20 .
I am saying with that amount as down payment , if you challenge those into it for real,not fraudsters.You could have a life changing experience .I am talking from factual things I have seen. I don't think it's factual things you've seen. However, if you put me in touch with some real practitioner that doesn't rely on psychadelics etc, then - After that I would like to know your opinion about how the world is only about what you can see. I didn't say the world is only about what I can see, did I? Any way each to his own path.
Cheers
Indeed. |
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Al Raheem (m)
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Thanks alot Elaine, And i know those things. Don't mind me!! So blessed to have u represent
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elaine mia (f)
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@ al-raheem If it should be true- the ressurection, i wish to remain asleep. if all will be the same like this life. There is power in the tongue you know. Don't say what you will regret. The after life which we are promised isn't going to be like this world, moreover the world is what it is today because of we humans, you and me.we are told this in the Bible.(i.e if you read the Bible). There is a GOD and he exists a 100%.How did you come to be if there is no supreme being behind the Idea. Did you fall from the skies? |
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frosbel (m)
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The fool says in his heart that there is no God.
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom.
Seun what do you understand by the concept called Atheism ??
Essentially it means that there is no God, we are only here for the material ( earthly , here and now ) and after death its all finished. Subsequently we are equated with mere animals who live only to eat, sleep and reproduce.
If you were however to be honest with yourself, you will begin to realise that the earth and its fulness is the Lord's thereof. The complexity of the human physiology, the intricate details of the planet called earth, the cell division in the form of Mitosis and Meosis, all point to one fact - there is a God.
The problems seen around the whole world today are man's problems, not God's problems.
God says we should forgive 7 x 77 times daily if anyone ofends us, but we refuse and kill if anyone hurts our proud egos in the slightest
God says be content with such things as you have and do not covet your neighbor's wife or property. Yet we are filled with ire when someone makes it in life and instead of thanking God for our Lot, hoping for more blessings we start devicing evil plans against such a person.
The summary is that the human race is plagued with greed and lust resulting in untold suffering world wide.
Jesus is coming soon he will surely make all things new so do not abandon your faith in God for your BELLY !!
Read the verses below for food for thought.
James : 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James : 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
4:5 Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
4:6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.
Phillipians : 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)
3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
GOD BLESS
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numbers
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@seun:The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom,
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thesilent1 (m)
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i would like to ASK a question here. now before i do this i need to say that it is a question!!!! i HAVE my own opinion about this but it would be nice to hear the different "VIEWS" on Nairaland; ONCE YOU HAVE ACCEPTED CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART, CAN YOU THEN STOP BEING A CHRISTIAN? now, can i just state certain things already for those that might not know me already; i am a Christian, i am a happy person, i am not the anti-Christ, i am not asking questions with no reverence for god, i am not trying to insult any body! okay, i think we have got all the legalities out of the way.  Peace! |
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KAG (f)
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The fool says in his heart that there is no God. But the wise proclaims it loudly and with a strong voice. [i]The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. But you can only get past the beginning after dealing with the fear. Seun what do you understand by the concept called Atheism ??
Essentially it means that there is no God, we are only here for the material ( earthly , here and now ) and after death its all finished. Subsequently we are equated with mere animals who live only to eat, sleep and reproduce. Not quite. While, atheism (and atheists by default) does acknowledge that the Gods most likely do not exist, it doesn't make any general statement on the worth of a being any more than theism does. Most atheists, though, are able to look beyond the inability of some theists who believe humans are base, stupid and despisable until a God tries to change them unsuccessfully. So, while we are animals, we do more than eat, sleep and reproduce: we reason, love deeply suffer from fears, empathise and many other things that make us human. We don't need Gods to experience humanity. If you were however to be honest with yourself, you will begin to realise that the earth and its fulness is the Lord's thereof. The complexity of the human physiology, the intricate details of the planet called earth, the cell division in the form of Mitosis and Meosis, all point to one fact - there is a God. Untrue. The complexity of the human physiology points to evolution by natural selection; the intricate details of Earth point to an planet formation after billions of years and an ecology that has also evolved, sometimes symbiotically, for billions of years; cell division, etc, also point to evolution. now, you can claim that perhaps a God may have sometime, somewhere designed it to look like it evolved, but you'D have to show some distinct evidence for that God and explain why the laws of parsimony should be dropped in this instance. The problems seen around the whole world today are man's problems, not God's problems. I agree. |
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KAG (f)
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i would like to ASK a question here. now before i do this i need to say that it is a question!!!!
i HAVE my own opinion about this but it would be nice to hear the different "VIEWS" on Nairaland;
ONCE YOU HAVE ACCEPTED CHRIST INTO YOUR HEART, CAN YOU THEN STOP BEING A CHRISTIAN? Yes, I'D say so. |
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somze (m)
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@ KAG
What are your values in life and how did you come up with them?
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OlowoTee (f)
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GOD: His ways are unsearchable, unpredictable, Infinite!So, how much of an infinite God can a finite, mortal created being know of Him??? Little wonder the Scripture says,, The fool has said in his heart that there is no God. It must have been an issue then(during Bible Days) where some people disbelieve the existence of God. And it will always be an issue today because some are still on that pathway!  The Indescribable awesomeness of God made David to ask a question: 'What is man that thou(God) hath mindful of Him or the son of man that thou art thotful of him' In other words, he meant to say that what has such a Mighty Creator got to do with lowly placed man. Moses couldn't curtail it all, when He sought for GOd's Glory and it was revealed to Him, Isaiah had an unforgettable experience as well, Peter, John and James at Mount transfiguration also had stories to tell, about the Invisible and Unsearchable God. The fact that He hasn't revealed Himself to you, or show up in some circumstances in your life does not mean that He is not there!. He shows up to sincere seekers & the meek in heart, and seldom shows up to the disbelievers of His existence! E.g Paul the Apostle in the Bible, some once-professed Athiests in our contemporary days. He is there, He is alive, He is GOD I pray He shows up to someone out there that is yet to believe in our GOD
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KAG (f)
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@ KAG
What are your values in life and how did you come up with them? As in what things do I value? Trying to think of them all might take too long a time; however, the ones that spring easily to mind are: Love; empathising with the plight of another and celebrating their joys as well; honesty; reason and logic - although not to the extent that fantasy is destroyed or ignored; education. How did I come up with them? I didn't. |
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somze (m)
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@ K A G
So how did you get them, since you did not come up with them? Was it a friend, family, religion? Who instilled such values as love, caring for others and honesty in you?
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thesilent1 (m)
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@KAG
what would be the reasoning behind that; i am curious.
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Tweetie (f)
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When u say there's no God, how do you sleep and wake up the next morning? is that physic or just automatic or is it luck?
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Al Raheem (m)
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@Topic Maybe:-~))Because your are selfish u can't enjoy your sinful ways very well unless u let it go. As you felt. You found out your Religion hates your Acts. And you know this!! and u said uh man  |
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otuwe (f)
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It's simple, really. I can't understand why a good God that knows all things and can do all things would allow evil to exist in his world. we were created with a free will. whatever you do with it is now left for you to reap the consequence. (LAW OF RECEIPROCITY). This is a law in creation and it is neutral and doesnt look at face. this still shows the perfection of God. we are only reaping what we sowed(evil) in order to go back the way we were before And I can't understand why a God that loves human beings would allow Satan to tempt them into disobeying him and then throw them into eternal torment for it. That doesn't seem fair at all and I can't believe that such a God is good in any sense. lucifer was sent to help mankind. he developed ego consciousness and felt that the work eould be easier for him if he tempted man. if man fell than he is destroyed, if he passed he would go back home and lucifer's work would be complete. this single act cut him off from the light. I think the world will become a much better place if we were all atheists, because we would strive to solve all our problems instead of expecting divine intervention which never really happens. We would value human life very much because we know that once lost it cannot be replaced. you don't need to be an athiest in order to strive and solve your problems. rather when u stive to do good at all times, the consequence of ur sins (karma) becomes lighter until you are tollaly cleansed and u make it back home (paradise) Do you have any questions, comments, respectful lectures for me? strive to know God and Creation. Examine the Bible and other Spiritual Books and know the TRUTH |
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KAG (f)
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@ K A G
So how did you get them, since you did not come up with them? Was it a friend, family, religion? Who instilled such values as love, caring for others and honesty in you? Initially, for some, like: love and empathy, genetic predisposition probably gave them to me. Overall though, they have been cultivated and encouraged by my parents, society and intellect. @KAG
what would be the reasoning behind that; i am curious. Behind what? When u say there's no God, how do you sleep and wake up the next morning? is that physic or just automatic or is it luck? It's nature. |
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obo_nyunmi (f)
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who cares?
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ricadelide (m)
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@KAG, Untrue. The complexity of the human physiology points to evolution by natural selection; Can you please explain further how this is? i'D like to know how 'evolution by natural selection' brought about a more complex and intricate species. And please be detailed. now, you can claim that perhaps a God may have sometime, somewhere designed it to look like it evolved, but you'D have to show some distinct evidence for that God and explain why the laws of parsimony should be dropped in this instance.
"Designed it to look like it evolved" First, what are your facts for saying it 'looked like it evolved'. Second, since there is no GOd in the question, is evolution a designer? If it is what are the 'designs' of evolution? How did it bring them about? Third, what kind of 'distinct evidence' for that God in the things that are created is essential? Furthermore, if a creator made the universe and everything in it, what kind of evidence will he have left behind or imprinted or made obvious in what he made? Cheers. |
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KAG (f)
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@KAG,Can you please explain further how this is? i'D like to know how 'evolution by natural selection' brought about a more complex and intricate species. And please be detailed. Beneficial mutations; genetic drift; natural and/or sexual selection. "Designed it to look like it evolved" First, what are your facts for saying it 'looked like it evolved'. Shared Endogenous Retroviral Insertions (ERV's); Fusion of chromosomes to create Chromosme 2; vestiges, etc. Second, since there is no GOd in the question, is evolution a designer? If it is what are the 'designs' of evolution? How did it bring them about? Depends on your definition of designer, but evolution is neither a conscious nor ultimately goal oriented thing - it's pretty much an abstract concept that defines a process that occurs in nature: change in allele frequencies of a population over time. The processes of evolution as described in the theory of evolution and as mentoned above, include mutations and selection. Third, what kind of 'distinct evidence' for that God in the things that are created is essential? Living animals that couldn't have, in any way, have evolved would be a one way. Another would be an unmistakable insignia that can't be misrepresented. Or even, come to think of it, a flawlessly designed organim, you know, one that doesn't look like it was put together by a natural process that involves mutations. Furthermore, if a creator made the universe and everything in it, what kind of evidence will he have left behind or imprinted or made obvious in what he made?
Cheers. A "THIS IS THE TETRAGRAMMATON I MADE THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT" scrawled across the sky and instantly understable by any and every one, should do the trick. |
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ricadelide (m)
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Initially, for some, like: love and empathy, genetic predisposition probably gave them to me. Wow, lucky you. Thus, i can infer that, for those who don't share or pocess those values, genetics was not very good towards them and they are 'genetically predisposed' to be wicked and cruel? If so, why do people have to be held responsible for what they can't help being? If someone was born genetically evil what yardstick can be used to compare such a one with others who are more 'blessed' than he is genetically within the same society? Overall though, they have been cultivated and encouraged by my parents, society and intellect.
Again, lucky you to have had parents and society and intellect. For those who were born without parents, grow up without the 'positive' influence of society and not 'genetically predisposed' to a good intellect, what yardstick will we use to measure their ethical values? If someone not so blessed by society were to turn out evil, can we hold such a one responsible for their actions? Are there absolute values? Or are values subject to societal contexts? |
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KAG (f)
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Wow, lucky you. Thus, i can infer that, for those who don't share or pocess those values, genetics was not very good towards them and they are 'genetically predisposed' to be wicked and cruel?
If so, why do people have to be held responsible for what they can't help being? No, that's not exactly right. In my opinion, we are all born with the instinct to love and be empathic - that would be the genetic predisposition. Several factors, though, can affect and mar those instincts. So, those that don't share that ability have usually been affected by their society and circumstances. Why do people have to be held responsible, etc? Because society functions better by incarcerating those that have been harmful even if they are somehow not mentally responsible for their actions - the law remanding the mentally troubled is a good example. If someone was born genetically evil what yardstick can be used to compare such a one with others who are more 'blessed' than he is genetically within the same society? I didn't say people were born gentically "evil". Interestingly, the idea of people being born genetically evil/bad is more in line with traditional Christian dogma. Again, lucky you to have had parents and society and intellect. Yes, I have been lucky in that regard. For those who were born without parents, grow up without the 'positive' influence of society and not 'genetically predisposed' to a good intellect, what yardstick will we use to measure their ethical values? The yardstick of the society's ethics at te time. While the actions of little Raheem may have been influenced strongly by his drug and crime addled ghetto culture, he will still most likely be sentenced to jail if he commits a violent crime. If someone not so blessed by society were to turn out evil, can we hold such a one responsible for their actions? Yes we do. Are there absolute values? Or are values subject to societal contexts? I believe there are absolute values; I do, however, acknowledge that many, if not most, of our "values" are relative. |
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ricadelide (m)
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Beneficial mutations
Can you please give me examples of beneficial mutations in humans that have increased the information in the genome, and please don't mention retroviral insertions, because you'D have to go bring me the genetic map of the 'human ancestor' to show me that he didn't have those genes and now i have it and also explain to me the mechanism by which those genes got there. Furthermore, can you give me examples of mutations that have produced new species? Genetic drift, again same question, an example of how genetic drift has increased the information in our genome. Natural/ or sexual selection, give examples of more complex (not more adaptable) organisms that have resulted from this and how. can you also give fossil evidence or whatever evidence, of new species that have resulted this way? Can you bring fossil evidence (or whatever) of transitional life-forms through the evolutionary process? Shared Endogenous Retroviral Insertions (ERV's); Fusion of chromosomes to create Chromosme 2; vestiges, etc.
Oh, you came here. Before addressing all this, can you first tell me how evolution 'designed' or ok, sorry, 'chanced' the genetic code and the protein code? How 'nature' or whatever that is, learnt how to store information in ordered sequences and codes. I guess you are aware of embryology. can you tell me how evolution 'chanced' the mechanisms of transcriptional regulation, neuronal chemical gradients that code for the different cellular differentition mechanisms, the very accurate fidelity and tight regulation of replication and protein expression, etc. Indeed, the many regulatory steps in this process baffle me. Please explain how evolution 'chanced' them. Now to ERVs. First, if you are presented with two events or characters that are similar, does that necessarily predicate common descent? Second, how did the retroviruses insert into the human genome millions of years ago? what mechanism will allow for a viral gene to be inserted across all the somatic cells and even into the germinal cell line? what is the evidence for that? Do you know about gene therapy? its a hot topic these days. If millions of years ago those retroviral insertions happened and came about in progeny, how come we have not been able to do that today with gene therapy vectors and approaches? "Fusion of chromosomes to create Chromosme 2" please explain more, i don't know what you're referring to. Vestiges? where are the vestiges? Before answering, remember that the vestiges of yesterday are the indispensibles of today. A lot of genetic information that used to be thought as being junk DNA are now being unravelled in function. Ever heard of the epigenetic code and epigenetics. a while back, the appendix was thought to be vestigeal, now it is now that it is an important part of the immune system. So, again where are the vestiges? Depends on your definition of designer, but evolution is neither a conscious nor ultimately goal oriented thing - it's pretty much an abstract concept that defines a process that occurs in nature: change in allele frequencies of a population over time. The processes of evolution as described in the theory of evolution and as mentoned above, include mutations and selection. Please facts; changes in allele frequencies don't result in new species no matter what the propaganda has been. Neither do mutations and natural selection. if i'm wrong bring solid evidence. You said evolution is neither conscious nor goal-oriented. So can we say then that evolution is random? and a product of chance and sheer luck? Living animals that couldn't have, in any way, have evolved would be a one way. Another would be an unmistakable insignia that can't be misrepresented. Or even, come to think of it, a flawlessly designed organim, you know, one that doesn't look like it was put together by a natural process that involves mutations. One thing i have come to realize is that truth can be staring right at someone in the face and yet one may never see it. I asked that question for a reason and sincerely i wish you'D read your own answers and not allow brainwashing by propagandists who manipulate evidence to obstruct your judgement. THe only reason science does not accept GOd is because there is an ad priori rejection of GOd, not because there is no evidence for/of God. In fact, its the opposite. Living animals that couldn't have evolved? Again, what do you mean by evolve here? Mutations? Or do you mean to say 'adapt"? because last time i checked, living animals are still here, and they haven't evolved - humans are still humans, chimps are chimps, goats are goats. Second, in order to acheive this non - evolutionary state, what 'checks' will you as a designer use to acheive this? I mean, what design instructions will you use to make beings that can't evolve? An unmistakable insignia? Ok. We're gradually getting to the same destination. I love art, most connosieurs of art after they've seen a lot of works by a particular artist eg Picasso, you can tell that this is Picasso. Artist leave their imprints. God is a great artist, he has left his imprints. Ok, so can you give examples of what kinds of insignia would have been employed? I can, but i'D love your insights. A flawlessly designed organism. Humn. Somebody hasn't been looking closely at their science texts. I think you need to study biology, i think more importantly the natural sciences, like biochemistry, physiology and molecular biology and genetics. If ever you wanted to see perfectly designed organisms, you'D see them. the designs are flawless, however, sometimes, one or more regulatory mechanisms let go, and allow for imperfect phenotypes to occur. SOmetimes, the imperfection arises at the genetic level during meiosis and inadvertently leads to an imperfect phenotype. If you want me to, i can elucidate perfect design structures, signal transduction pathways, regulatory mechansisms, checks and counterchecks, DNA proofreadings, spatial and temporal control of gene expression, protein expression, etc. The designs are perfect, but there are degenerative disorders which we know why they came about. So now questions. Your statement presupposes that the organisms that are at present aren't 'flawlessy designed'. In the normal physiologic human being can you bring me those imperfections in the design of the body organs, tissues, cells, etc up to the molecular level? i'D eagerly be expecting them. Indeed, paradoxically, most of the discoveries in molecular biology have come from a study of these degenrative conditions, from comparisons of perfect humans with 'imperfect' ones (i mean diseased ones). Looking at it, may we say thank GOd for the imperfections so that we may more appreciate the perfect? (by the way, that was not directed at you - i was just wondering aloud) A "THIS IS THE TETRAGRAMMATON I MADE THE UNIVERSE AND EVERYTHING IN IT" scrawled across the sky and instantly understable by any and every one, should do the trick.
Read yourself. I have some degree of ethics, i try to apply it to others. Didn't you think that would be a little pompous and self-conceited? Even humans, with our minimal pocession of ethics and value judgements, will not gravitate into doing that in their little 'creations'. Try again at the question. "If a creator made the universe and everything in it, what kind of evidence will he have left behind or imprinted or made obvious in what he made?" |
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frosbel (m)
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1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God's sight. As it is written: "He catches the wise in their craftiness" ;
1 Corinthians 1:21
For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:25
For the foolishness of God is wiser than man's wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than man's strength.
1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Romans 8 : 5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man[e] is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind[f] is hostile to God. It does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
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somze (m)
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@ K A G
Do you have any evidence concerning genetics and our values? Its ok if its your hypothesis but i just wanted to know if it was scientifically based or you had any clues that pointed towards that conclusion.
What type of values do you regard as absolute and which ones are relative? What/Who makes a value absolute? Is it politics, socialization, religion or genetics?
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ricadelide (m)
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@Somze, I was just about to take her on in her response to my post. Those where the questions i had in mind @KAG, No, that's not exactly right. In my opinion, we are all born with the instinct to love and be empathic - that would be the genetic predisposition. Several factors, though, can affect and mar those instincts. So, those that don't share that ability have usually been affected by their society and circumstances.
Why do people have to be held responsible, etc? Because society functions better by incarcerating those that have been harmful even if they are somehow not mentally responsible for their actions - the law remanding the mentally troubled is a good example.
why is it not right? How do you determine that? Are you sure we are born with the instinct to 'love and be empathic'? If we are, where does hate and evil come from, since all of us would have been born with an 'instinct to love and be empathic'. and since we are all, in your opinion, a product of chance and random mutations, how can you determine right from wrong, love from hate, good from evil? if you say it is innate, what does that mean? is it coded for by our genes? what is the goal of life? is it self-preservation? if it is, why do i have to love and be empathic? what does 'love and be empathic' mean? will it help me towards attaining my ultimate goal of self-preservation? i doubt that. if anything we are really competitors and rivals. why do we have to be anything? why must I be accountable to society - did society make me? if it did not, it can't tell me what to do. i think you are not really thinking DEEPLY about the implications of what you are saying. How does society decide that some has been harmful - if the person is acting out of the innate need for self-preservation? Has it stopped being about survival of the fit (or fittest)? Why do the 'mental yardstick' have to be the 'judge' of what is harmful? why can't 'emotions' be the determinant? at least emotions are equally a product of our brain's activity just like the intellect. so why should one be 'better' than the other ie logic than emotion? what's the meaning of better in your context? if someone 'feels' hatred for another human, why can't he act on it? isnt it his instinct? isnt it the product of his brain's activity? I didn't say people were born gentically "evil". Interestingly, the idea of people being born genetically evil/bad is more in line with traditional Christian dogma.
let me ignore you inconsistency. you say people are born 'with the instinct to love and empathise'. where did hate and selfishness come from? if they CAN be born good, they CAN just as easily be born evil. its just a matter of 'chance and luck' however, the above statement is NOT in line with christian dogma. you're trying to mix naturalist philosophy with christianity. Christianity teaches that we are a trinity of spirit, soul and body. not everything is physical. it teaches that we are born with our spirits dead - meaning; seperated from God. For spiritual death is the absence of the knowledge of God. Do you have kids? when did you observe them to first lie or steal, or cry because they wanted something so badly (even before being exposed to society) - that is what is OBSERVABLE. humans are born selfish - that is a SPIRITUAL thing, not a genetic and thus natural thing. there are no genes coding for good and evil, prove me wrong. Yes, I have been lucky in that regard.
Good for you. I know better than to believe in luck. The yardstick of the society's ethics at te time. While the actions of little Raheem may have been influenced strongly by his drug and crime addled ghetto culture, he will still most likely be sentenced to jail if he commits a violent crime. why? Do i have to spell it out? can't you see the hypocrisy and inconsistency in this? we are products of chance, we are made by the process of natural selection, it has been about survival of the fit, so the ultimate goal is self-preservation and reproduction - just like the animals. why does 'SOCIETY' then have to come and tell me what to do? there is nothing like good and evil, those are just imaginary concepts that our minds made up. how are we even sure that our logic is trustworthy? are we SURE its not a mere imagination? if it is trustworthy, then its not falsifiable. Again, who/what determines the yardsticks of society's ethics? If he has not been shaped by society, then he must not be subject TO society. if not, then society is a bully that picks on the weak and the vulnarable, and anyone who does not conform to its own ideas of what is right and what is wrong. Indeed, communism couldn't have been more silly. Yes we do. why? society is a bully - it has no right, it did not make me, i'm not accountable to it. I believe there are absolute values; I do, however, acknowledge that many, if not most, of our "values" are relative. I'm not just interested in statements; i'm interested in the IMPLICATIONS of statements and how those statements come about, and the meaning of the statements. Its easy to just state something without thinking deeply about it or putting things in the context of HOW we came to be. if we are a product of natural selection and mutations, then we are just a mass of circulating chemicals, elements and such. our brain is real, but our mind isnt. it is abstract. thoughts are NOT real, they are mere products of brain waves and neurochemical gradients and action potential. Logic is not real. right and wrong are NOT real. so don't tell me society can tell right from wrong. we are not 'better' than animals. we just evolved differently. there is no intrinsic VALUE in the human life. we are worthless. if anything, the earth is more valuable than us, and it is better we are not here, because we are polluting the earth. our population should be cut down. VALUE is meaningless in the context of how we came about. who are we? what is our goal? if you tell me there are absolute values, you'D have to determine how we got them. what is the reference point. how do you KNOW they are absolute? how do you even KNOW anything? our minds might just be decieving us. if you tell me it is 'relative' then tell me what the yardstick for relativity is. relative to what? self? others? the earth? mother nature? I really need answers, but more importantly i need you to think about a)the IMPLICATIONS of whatever you say and b) HOW you arrived at the statement. Cheers. |
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dabino
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Mr seun i understand ur view but you see the truth of Gods existences in christainity cannot be resloved by mere logic because logic in itself is a relative term. one man's sound logic can be another's irrationality. you see divine truth is absolute and does not have variations. The truth of God's existence may not be able to be comprehended by human logic alone but may need to be augumented sometimes by experience.Gideon in the bible had a similar case like your's(judges chapter 6). He (Gideon) was disillusioned(Judges 6:13) but he asked for a sign so he could have an experience. I believe that if you sincerly desire to know God He will show u a sign erase ur doubt. proverbs 25:1 says It is the glory of God to conceal a matter but the glory of kings is to search out a matter. I know that if u seek God u'll find God because i have known and am still knowning him.I would like to keep up close with u seun my email addy is rayduda2000@yahoo.com have a nice day and may u obtain the understanding u need concerning this issue. Amen |
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etauso (m)
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Seun, I have only three words for you, "I AM SHOCKED"
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etauso (m)
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SEUN, I have only three words for you "I Am SHOCKED"
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