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chrisd (m)
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I think we have a new contender for the Nobel Prize. It's Layi called My Case Against Evolution
Yes, one needs a highly intellectual mind indeed.
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nuru (m)
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The fact that you can't see God does not mean He is not existing. Look, I just told you of dimensional levels of existence and you can't say anything on it. Come to think of it, would u say a child in the womb of his mother is on the same dimension as you are now. How would you explain the birth of a goat in Tunisia in 1985 with the word Allah in Arabic inscribed on it from the womb. How do you explain the sound coming form a cork clearly saying ''E maa kirun'' distinctly. A phrase in Yoruba language for '' observe your prayers ''. This happened around October 2004 in Ilorin town of Kwara State in Nigeria. The Nigerian television Authority televised the scene and you can confirm from their archive. Is it coincident that no two person are exactly the same. Look at the world around you and be not naive, the mathematical order of creation that science is just discovering is not by accident. It was written by a supreme being, the highest intellect. You may call him by whatever name is peculiar to your language, but you cannot dispute his existence. What is happening is that man is just discovering what God has done. Let me explain, if you discover today that rice will satisfy your hunger, why not poison and germs. Definitely, it is the attribute that the Creator imposed on rice that you have just discovered. If not create your own rice. You people amuse me, is it because of little knowledge that you have concerning some of the secrets that the Creator put in place that you have and you feel you know a lot as to say there is no God. You are not serious and not knowledgeable. Those who are of knowledge know that the more they discover, the more they realize that what they are yet to comprehend about creation is more than what they know. Read my post in year 3000 and beyond. I said something about 'sonet' it is an invention yet to emerge. If you must know, the inspiration was gotten by reading the Holy Scripture where similar thing was said to have occurred to one of the men of old. If you want to check it out. I will lead you on. please stop believing there is no God. what you rather if you are a seeker of knowledge should do is to seek to know Him.
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nferyn (m)
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I think we have a new contender for the Nobel Prize. It's Layi called My Case Against Evolution
Yes, one needs a highly intellectual mind indeed.
I'll answer him this evening when I'm home and have all my source material close at hand. I don't want to quote talkorigins every time. I'm going to bring some more original material as well  |
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nuru (m)
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what do you know about dimensions
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chrisd (m)
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Nuru is getting technical now, using multi-dimensional vector spaces. I think there must be an inner product somewhere  |
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nferyn (m)
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nuru,
There is absolutely no need at all for a creator of all living things on this planet. This can all easily be explained by natural processes.
And those miraculous things you are talking about, in view of the millions of goats that are born every year, chance can easily explain such a patterns.
Anyway, I am a seeker of knowledge and the more I learn, the more it becomes obvious that an infantile characterisation of the natural world as Creation shows more of the limits of what you describe as knowledge than anything else.
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chrisd (m)
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Perhaps it can be explained using a vector space that has forgotten its origin. Yes, I think that's it.
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nferyn (m)
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chrisd, You know you got me cornered when you get technical. I have a hard time just understanding what you're talking about  Don't lead that poor nuru to the slaughterhouse, you should be more considerate for your fellow men |
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gbade. x (m)
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nuru,
There is absolutely no need at all for a creator of all living things on this planet. This can all easily be explained by natural processes.
And those miraculous things you are talking about, in view of the millions of goats that are born every year, chance can easily explain such a patterns.
Anyway, I am a seeker of knowledge and the more I learn, the more it becomes obvious that an infantile characterisation of the natural world as Creation shows more of the limits of what you describe as knowledge than anything else.
i would like to ask you a question. if you believe after you have seen ,then how can you explain the wind? huh? still thinking? you stuttering? perhaps your intellectual prowress would give you greater insight and you'D be able to "see" the wind!!! we all can't see the wind. but we KNOW it exists. son, look around you, every detailed work of creation is evidence enough that God exists. YOU ARE AN EVIDENCE OF HIS EXISTENCE!!!if you are too blind to "see", then am so so sorry. i am sure Hebrews11:1 was written for someone like you. i pray the God you refuse to believe in will reveal himself to you one day. same goes for Seun. what you two don't understand is that Christianity is A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH GOD, NOT JUST GOING TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY LIKE IT WAS SOME ROUTINE. SEEK HIM FIRST."seek ye the kingdom of God and all other things shall be added unto you." |
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nferyn (m)
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i would like to ask you a question. if you believe after you have seen ,then how can you explain the wind?
Sigh, the wind is the movement of the atmospheric gasses from one place to another place due to differences in atmospheric pressure, which are caused among others by temperature fluctuations. Do I need to explain what gasses are? or maybe the concept of pressure elludes you? huh? still thinking? you stuttering? perhaps your intellectual prowress would give you greater insight and you'D be able to "see" the wind!!! we all can't see the wind. but we KNOW it exists.
It is not useful for our senses to see the wind as it provides absolutely no evolutionary benefit to us to do so. There are countless indirect methods to see the wind. Our knowledge of it's existence comes directly from our ability to perceive it. son, look around you, every detailed work of creation is evidence enough that God exists.
How so? YOU ARE AN EVIDENCE OF HIS EXISTENCE!!!
Really? Can you explain that in a non-circular manner? if you are too blind to "see", then am so so sorry. i am sure Hebrews11:1 was written for someone like you.
You mean Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen? I don't really get convinced by circular reasoning i pray the God you refuse to believe in will reveal himself to you one day. same goes for Seun. what you two don't understand is that Christianity is A PERSONAL EXPERIENCE WITH GOD, NOT JUST GOING TO CHURCH EVERY SUNDAY LIKE IT WAS SOME ROUTINE. SEEK HIM FIRST."seek ye the kingdom of God and all other things shall be added unto you."
Tell me, what exactly am I to seek? |
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chrisd (m)
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A personal relationship eh. I prefer it to have that with my wife
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nuru (m)
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When you mention vector analysis, you are still are talking of three dimensions. If you add time, it makes four. All the concepts you have mentioned so far are explainable within that four dimensions. But there are countless dimensions that man can transcend. Have you heard of somebody who has never been physically ( within the four dimensions) to a place before and describing the place exactly. Have you ever seen somebody looking at you straight on the face and telling you your innermost secret that you are sure nobody knows about. Have you ever heard of someone physically here with you who took permission from you to enter his room for prayers and who came out five minutes later, and sometime later in the month somebody who just returned from Mecca reported that the same man was seen there at the prayer time he took permission from you to observe. Have you not seen or heard of people that will tell you they had a dream of something and that thing will happen exactly the way they claim it happened in the dream. These are examples of higher dimensional experiences beyond vector analysis which have been confirmed and pointing to the existence of a Supreme being at the Highest point. Have you ever heard of a book that the author writes number of chapters divisible by 19, number of sentences divisible by 19, number of words divisible by 19 and number of letters divisible by 19 and the book still make complete message and contains scientific facts that are being discovered over fourteen centuries that the book had been written. The Book could only have come the author of the universe who knows exactly what he created. Have you ever had a dream in your life. Any dream at all. Do you have any particular dream that you can vivdly recollect. Be truthful to yourself. Verily, in your humble self, there are signs of the existence of God. Did you write the permutations that made you emerge with two eyes, one head, two legs e.t.c. Did you write the propability equation that enabled you to come into existence through your parents. why were you not born in Bill Gates compound, why did the family of King Fahd not be the one you came through. Why are you white and me black. Let me tell you, imagine the number of people using telepone all over the world, has it ever occurred to you that each number is different from the other. Yet this is the making of man as limited as our capability is and we can accept that this is our deliberate creation or permutation. It is not by chance that the numbers are different but you want poeple to believe that the orderliness in creation is a product of propability. There is a strong intellect behind the entire universe and the fact that you have not seen him does not disprove this just like the fact that our forefathers did not have microscope to observe tiny cells did not remove the fact that living things are constituted of cells. You get my argument. Your limitation is not a prove.
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chrisd (m)
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I don't think that type of argument is admissable in court
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nuru (m)
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Yes, ignorance is not an excuse in law.
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jeremiah7 (m)
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Are you eager to know your future?
Most of us are eager to know about our future.A few of us desperate.What will tomorrow bring? Will there be blessings coming my way or will I suffer loss?These thoughts keep plaguing many minds.
To know their future, people run to & fro, searching for those who can predict their future. Some consult astrologists, some read their horoscopes carefully.There are many who claim they can predict ones future. Some read the lines on the palms, some look at the furrow lines on the forehead, others look at the position of the stars and predict the future. (The Bible does not approve of such methods of predicting the future)
In 1990, while travelling from Haryana to Mumbai by train, a fellow traveller began predicting the future lives of our co-passengers by reading their palms. People surrounded him like bees in a hive, eager to know their future. Finally he turned around and asked me, "don't you want me to predict your future, show me your right hand."
Without showing him my hand, I smiled and said, "I know my future very well. There's nothing new that you can say."He looked displeased and left me to attend to others who flocked to him.
When I was studying in the 8th standard (long before I knew Christ) a man once took my hand and began reading my palm. "I don't see you studying farther than 10th standard. Very bleak job prospects too. May be a job just enough to earn a livelihood!"he said shaking his head in dismay.
Time itself is witness to the lies that he said. I finished my post graduation in medicine and by the Grace of God have completed 17 years of fruitful work as a doctor.
Are you really eager to know your future?
If you were taken to a place with a flower garden and a field on fire standing side by side, which would you choose to behold ? Flowers are beautiful to behold, to touch and we enjoy smelling their sweet fragrance.
But, what about fire? Some of us are afraid even to look at blazing fire from close quarters. Thats because we know that fire can hurt our bodies if we go too close.
Let me again ask you. Imagine the place with flowers and fire to be 2 lands where you can set up home and live.
Will you prefer to live in a land full of flowers or will you prefer a land with fire every where?
Without answering, we all know the answer to this, if one is of a sound mind. We know that fire can harm us, so our decision to stay away from such a place.
Have you ever seen a fire that keeps burning and does not die nor can be put out?
You may most probably reply in the negative. In 1990 during the Gulf war, certain oil rigs that were destroyed kept burning for several months. But finally they were put out and they died.
Some forest fires kept burning for several months in America and Australia last year. They caused a lot of destruction but finally these fires subsided.
To know about a fire that burns continually we need to read a few verses from the Bible.
"If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out.And if your foot causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life crippled than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:43-48)
In these verses, twice Jesus Christ very clearly mentions of the place where the fire does not go out but keeps burning continually. That place is called HELL.
A place of eternal torment, pain and weeping. Merely mentioning "HELL"brings fear to many.
In stark contrast to this place of eternal torment ,the Bible mentions about a place of eternal peace, comfort and rest. That place is HEAVEN.
There is no death, sorrow, pain or worry in Heaven. Only peace, joy and satisfaction.
What after death on earth? is a question that plagues many minds continually.
Some say there is reincarnation, but there is no proof or basis for that. Others say the wicked will suffer torment. Still others say that all created beings will return to their creator and be with him. All these suppositions have no basis.
The Bible is the place where we find the answer to the question - what happens after a person dies on earth?
Those who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour and live according to His Word will gain entry into Heaven after they die and that will be their eternal home, but those who reject Jesus Christ and the salvation that he freely offers will suffer eternal torment in Hell after they die.
Heaven and hell are not just fanciful stories dear friend. They are realities.
Any person who dies on earth, goes to their eternal home, either in Heaven or in Hell. Every person who lives on earth has 3 distinct parts - Body, Spirit and Soul. After death, the body disintegrates when buried or is burnt. The spirit and soul live forever. The soul is the part of a person called mind or intellect or decision making part.
Life in Heaven or Hell is the eternal future of every person born on earth.
For which life are you (or have you been) preparing yourself?
Eternal joy in heaven or eternal torment in hell? Whether you believe it or not, this is the future of every person who has been born or will be born on earth. This is not my personal opinion, it is the truth that is mentioned in the 'Word of God"- "The Bible."
Pastor Daniel from Nigeria died in a road accident on November 30th 2001. For 3 days he was kept in a mortuary. God raised him up from the dead miraculously after that. The Pastor describes what happened between his death and being raised up.
As he was being transported in an ambulance,he died and 2 angels carried him to a very beautiful place. The angels told him that that place was Paradise.
There he saw a great throng of people worshipping God in unison and he too worshipped. He did not feel like leaving that place where there was total peace and joy. But the angels told him that he had to see other places too. They took him to the place of torment called Hell. People in hell were in torment physically and mentally. They spoke to him about their eternal sorrow. There seemed to be no end to their pain and grief.
Heaven and Hell are realities dear Brother, dear Sister. Just to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of today and tomorrow, do not lose your place in heaven. The lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life,these all take away the love of the Father from within us. So Beware.
The Bible says,
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"(Romans 3:23).
"Blessed is he whose transgressions are forgiven, whose sins are covered"(Psalm 32:1).
"Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved"(Acts 4:12).
"If we confess our sins he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness."(1 John 1:9).
"If you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord,"and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved"(Romans 10:9, 10).
Pray this prayer to become a child of God and have a secure future in heaven when you die on earth or when the Lord comes in the clouds and takes you home.
Dear Father in Heaven,
I confess that I am a sinner and that I will perish in my sins if I do not accept Jesus as my Saviour and Lord. Forgive me all my sins and unrighteousness and wash me with the blood of Jesus and make me a new person this day. I believe in my heart and confess with my mouth that Jesus is your son and He died on the cross at Calvary for my sins and that He was resurrected and ascended to heaven and sits at your right hand with all authority given to Him by you. Fill me with your Holy Spirit and let Him guide me through your Word to live a life, holy and pleasing to you.
In Jesus' Name,Amen.
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nferyn (m)
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@ jeremiah7
What is the purpose of your write-up, dear Jeremiah7? What is your argument? What are you trying to tell us?
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jeremiah7 (m)
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What I am trying to tell here is that whether one believes or not, the Word of God cannot be changed and each one of us will be responsible for the decisions that we take in our lives while we live. If we accept the Word well and good for us. If we rebel against it ultimately we ourselves are the losers.God is good and He gives all of us a chance to live according to His Word.Whether we accept it or not decides our ultimate fate in eternity.
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babymine (f)
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Seun, the conclusion of the matter is for you to fear God n keep his commandments. There are some things you just can't understand no matter how hard you try. N also know that God is beyond your normal n human comprehension. I don't intend arguing n debating with you, instead I'll take some time and pray for you. I know the devil has lost the battle over your life! Halleluyah! |
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nikinash (f)
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God is real, whether or not you believe it does not change the fact. that is probably why He put in the scripture in Hebrews that has been well quoted in this thread, Faith is the evidence of things not seen. You have to believe that He is. That is the whole essence of the christian faith. notice what it is called, 'christian faith'.
many times, people have the wrong start with the christian faith and coupled with the wrong things they see (from poeple who are supposed to be christians), it becomes really hard to reconcile what they read with what they observe. the only way you can truly know whether or not God is real is by getting to know Him. Try it before you knock it, i.e if you aren't scared of what you will find out. i mean you already think He does not exist so what will you lose?
Seun and Nferyn, i challenge you to try and get into a personal relationship with God, yes talk to Him even though you think He is not there, just talk to Him and try to know him through all the nonsense of the bible and see if at the end of the day you still believe in His existence.
i have been a christian for about 19 years and the more i know him the more i love Him. the key word here is 'know'. God is real, He is true and He loves you.
the more you try to explain and rationalize God, the more you realize that you can't and that may throw you off into believing that he doesn't exist but nothing could be further from the truth.
the truth is no one can convince you of the exsitence or otherwise of God, only the Holy Spirit can do that and i believe He will because I will pray for you that your hearts may open up to His love.
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Seun (m)
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I have enjoyed a "personal relationship" with God in the past. It is simply a form of self-delusion - I feel like I was such a fool in those days. Imagine someone praying into air and thinking he is talking to his best friend *shudders*.
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nuru (m)
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Its not just thinking you have your best friend is around when you pray, the fact is that He is there with you. Have you considered that it is this same air that someone speaks into and you hear in your home as radio or as telephone calls. Can you see the air. Surely the intellect that can make man to generate such invention is small compared to the intellect of the One that originated man. Man is not a product of propability. I think you get my drift.
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naijababy
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Religion sucks balls. 2 words...Mind Control.....What about the people that lived before Jesus....should they be Christians too? Are they going to heaven or hell? Whether there's a god or not, fact is we humans are too stupid to know how to find and communicate with him/she...but we'll sure die trying. Only 2 rules of the commandment are good....thou shall not kill, and not steal...all else is just bs. One thing still applies....survival of the fittest...whether mentally or physically.
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nuru (m)
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Naijababy, if religion is mind control, the question is 'whose mind?'. Who originated the mind, who fashioned it, who is nourishing it, in short, who is qualified to control it.
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naijababy
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To answer your question...It tries to control every mind it can through FEAR.....just as you have fear of truth...Before the bible was printed on paper....how were humans to have knowledge of this god you refer too? Did King James have his version of this god implanted in your mind? Wow....a mind sure is a terrible thing to waste.
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nuru (m)
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Your post did not answer my questions. As for the people of old, pre-Bible era, no nation was left unguided to the truth that pervades all civilizations.
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IAH (f)
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Seun, answer my question!
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Seun (m)
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Are you saying, in all honesty, that you never got a single answer to all the prayers you prayed then? I know you got answers, but you are probably going to say they all happened by chance or by your own doing.  Yesterday night I asked the Holy Coconut to preserve and maintain my site today. Throughout the day, the site did not go down. I also asked the Holy Coconut to preserve my footsteps and today when I went out to buy some provisions I did not have any accident. Aren't those answered prayers too? So why don't you worship the holy coconut along with me? Afterall It answers some prayers, right? |
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Seun (m)
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Naijababy, if religion is mind control, the question is 'whose mind?'. Who originated the mind, who fashioned it, who is nourishing it, in short, who is qualified to control it. What naijababy means is that religion is a tool often used by political leaders to control the gullible masses. |
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nuru (m)
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Is Holy Coconut another name for the One that Originated the world and all in it.  Then if religion is used for political purposes, that does not mean one should not have personal non political conviction and relationship with the Supreme Lord |
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Fluffy (f)
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Dear Seun it saddens me to think people actually still blame God for the evil in this world when in fact it is all our doing. First of all evil was not god's idea it came on earth when Adam and Eve allowed themselves to be tempted and be disobedient to god and this is still the way tings r today. God loves humans so much that He gives us all a freedom of choice. To do good or sin and everybody loves sin and chooses to do sin. If u sin u r serving the devil and if u do good u serve God, because in God there is no sin. The wages of sin is death and not just dying, but actually going to hell.But if you choose to be obedient to God no evil shall come upon u according to psalms91. The bible clearly states that the way u live will determine where u spend eternity. Saints go to heaven, sinners burn in hell and God's word does not lie. Believing that people die and return as animals is the same is people cam from baboons. today we see natural birth taking place, what happened to the baboons that where suppose to turn into animals, lies lies and more lies. The truth is in the bible and I would rather believe that than believe some scientist and people that where born in the same millennium as I am.
I'm very proud to be Christian though it's a tough road with lots of temptations along the way the end result is one big award.
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