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Telly B (m)
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Including you. Amin!  |
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belloti (m)
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Oh Yeah, Islam has a lot of regard for sex and relationship but that should be considered normal especially with the growing scourge of sexual diseases and marital breakdown. Islam encourages decency in sexual contract and give sex a pride of place in heavenly arrangements. I still can't see where we missed the points. If you look around you the whole charade is ultimately about sex and family so whats the fuss? What you failed to understand is the basic provisions in the sexual lessons of islam, which obviously doesnt matter to you but the seeming lopsided sexual fantasies on earth and in heaven as presumed by most of your posts. Oh yeah we muslims feel good about sex and we expect you to respect that.
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babyosisi (f)
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While other Muslim forumites are dodging questions of Islam killing people who leave Islam,bellotti says yes we do,deal with it While some used idea to deny that a Christian touching a Koran should be killed by Islamic sharia,bellotti says,oh yes I'm proud to say so and allah rejoices in the process. While some are squirmish about Muhammad and his having the strength of 30 men,bellotti says allahu akhbar 30 times 30. Thanks for your honesty mallam  |
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Telly B (m)
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@belloti, Oh Yeah, Islam has a lot of regard for sex and relationship but that should be considered normal especially with the growing scourge of sexual diseases and marital breakdown. . . Oh yeah we muslims feel good about sex and we expect you to respect that. Try not being so patronizing. The stuff I've read about Islam and sex from authentic Muslim sources are not "normal"!  |
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belloti (m)
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Baby, Islam need a lot of understanding don't just look at it from a layman view. Some of the things you see in muslim countries are not neccessarily islamic and some of the aspect of islam that look confusing are probably as a result of your misinterpretation and wrong perception. A whole generation cannot practice a religion that thrives on violence and rights abuse. We can not all be blind and dumb.
We muslims always wondered how anyone in his senses could be a christians, go to church to entertain themselves with songs and hip swerving and assume they are worshipping God. how can a religion that flaunts so much indecency and flagrant indulgence in drinking and explicit fashion cultures be considered morally right?.
I believe we all hold our misgivings about each others religion but decorum demands we also respect the right of choice.
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Telly B (m)
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@belloti, When you appeal to other not to judge Islam from a layman's view, then you conveniently apply the very same rule in viewing Christianity. Here it is: We muslims always wondered how anyone in his senses could be a christians, go to church to entertain themselves with songs and hip swerving and assume they are worshipping God. how can a religion that flaunts so much indecency and flagrant indulgence in drinking and explicit fashion cultures be considered morally right?. Does Christianity "flaunt so much indecency" or excuse "explicit fashion cultures"? 1 Tim. 2:9-10
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel,
with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls,
or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness)
with good worksDoes Christianity mean the same as "flagrant indulgence in drinking"?? Eph. 5:18
And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the SpiritWhen you ask that certain measures are not applied in examining Islam and yet you use the same measures in examining Christianity, what does that make you, belotti?? I believe we all hold our misgivings about each others religion but decorum demands we also respect the right of choice. Okay. But have you just demonstrated the same thing you're calling for?? |
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nossycheek (f)
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@Telly B Leave Belloti alone, he is found of speaking from both sides of his mouth. I have nothing much to say than to state that muslims are not innocent of flagrant indulgence in drinking. Most often, those butas are filled with alcoholic drinks, which they take into the confines of their homes. Or they go to the non sharia areas of their towns and drink to stupor. They knock at tobacco's sellers door at dusk asking for their containers to be filled. So much hypocrisy, that is their trademark. Go to Ladin Makole in Kano and the indecency that confronts you is so unbelievable. A village divided into two, where the men cross to catch fun at the other end and go back to their enclave. I hope I have not said much  |
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Telly B (m)
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@Telly B
Leave Belloti alone, he is found of speaking from both sides of his mouth. Okay ma!! I hope I have not said much No, not at all. And if he wants us to provide the " facts, maps, pictures, evidence, and proofs", I'm just one hola away!!  |
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mrpataki (m)
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We muslims always wondered how anyone in his senses could be a christians, go to church to entertain themselves with songs and hip swerving and assume they are worshipping God. how can a religion that flaunts so much indecency and flagrant indulgence in drinking and explicit fashion cultures be considered morally right?.
I believe we all hold our misgivings about each others religion but decorum demands we also respect the right of choice.
Where are the " I am a Christian too" to come and share more exposee to what Mallam Belloti (whom I believe drinks Sepe and Akpetishi before sitting down to type Jargons sometimes) has said Belloti, I have never been persuaded with your sweet tongue. |
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davidylan (m)
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We muslims always wondered how anyone in his senses could be a christians, go to church to entertain themselves with songs and hip swerving and assume they are worshipping God. how can a religion that flaunts so much indecency and flagrant indulgence in drinking and explicit fashion cultures be considered morally right?. Telly B has already refered to the relevant bible verses that nullify your blatant lies. Where did you find GENUINE christians who indulge in "flagrant drinking"? Are you worried about men who drink on earth when your "heaven" has rivers flowing with beer? what kind of hypocrisy is this? The sad thing is as usual you have only succeeded in reproducing the same lies that your imams blackmail christians with. Again as with all muslims who must desperately grasp at straws to have something to say, everything western is automatically attributed to christians. I believe we all hold our misgivings about each others religion but decorum demands we also respect the right of choice.
"right of choice" is not a phrase that can be applied to muslims. The same belloti crying for right of choice is well aware that NO churches are allowed in countries like Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, that preaching is a capital offence in countries like Ethiopia and states like Zamfara and Kano. The same Belloti yelling for "right of choice" must have joined the rioters who threw tantrums over the hosting of miss world. What a hypocrite! Where are the " I am a Christian too" to come and share more exposee to what Mallam Belloti (whom I believe drinks Sepe and Akpetishi before sitting down to type Jargons sometimes) has said They only appear when allah and his slaves are crying. |
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davidylan (m)
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Based on some events that occured on the "i am not a terrorist" thread, one can conclude that the dear old sheik was right! |
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I-man (m)
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To suckle or not to suckle,that is the burning issue in Al-Azhar Islamic University.Methinks,suckilng is a good idea,worth converting for The links below will explain the reasons for my ramblings - http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/4848 http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/016504.phpA lecturer at Cairo's al-Azhar University—the Yale Law School of the Sunni legal world—is in hot water after issuing a fatwa that proposes a novel method of circumventing traditional Islamic provisions for segregating the sexes. If a man sucks on a given woman's breasts five times, she may legally proceed to reveal herself to him, declared Ezzat Atiya, who heads the university's department dealing with the Hadith. Needless to say, Atiya's fatwa has tantalized the media and outraged colleagues: |
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davidylan (m)
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You mean if i want to make any girl unlawful for me she must suckle me?  Can i sue her for refusing to suckle me? Will it be islamophobia to refuse to provide suckling rooms in all government buildings? |
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I-man (m)
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I think any tolerant Govt in the 21st century must provide suckling rooms to enable our Muslim brothers perform their religious obligations.To deny them this inalienable right would be nothing short of bigotry.
We should also teach the women to provide ready access to their mammary glands.Failure to provide such access is haram!
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davidylan (m)
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I blame Isreal, the occupation is denying palestinians their inalienable right to suckle in Jerusalem.
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spoilt (f)
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this thread is getting interestener and interestener. |
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dakmanzero (m)
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Hmmm. Interesting.
I intended to ask babs to determine whether the hadith quotations were correct, but I have verified them myself and find those that were quoted verbatim, to be accurate.
However I will mention that @Nossycheek neglected to quote the hadiths concerning the hallucinations, and as a result has distorted their actual meaning. Hopefully this was not intended to be misleading or mischievious. I will leave it to @babs, mukina and others to clarify those points, if they so desire.
There is also the matter of the 72 virgins- this is a verse that is also never quoted, and as a result is usually misrepresented or distorted. Rest assured the literal translation is inaccurate. However I will also leave proving this to the pro-Islam camp on this thread.
Which brings me to my question, How many wives, in fact, did the prophet have, and what implications does it have on the number of wives a Muslim is allowed to take?
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nossycheek (f)
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Some books recorded that MO had 16 wives while others recorded 9 wives and 2 concubines.
As for the implications, well, it seems to be a matter of "do as I say, and not as I do".
Muslims are entitled to 4 wives and tempos ( if they travel)
And what makes up the 4, me I don't know as they are entitled to divorce and re-marry without restrain.
So they may end up marrying and divorcing many.
However, it is a matter of as 'your hand possesses"
On number of wives
[4.3] And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
As thy right hand possesses
[23.5] And who guard their private parts,
[23.6] Except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blameable,
[4.24] And all married women except those whom your right hands possess (this is) Allah's ordinance to you, and lawful for you are (all women) besides those, provided that you seek (them) with your property, taking (them) in marriage not committing fornication. Then as to those whom you profit by, give them their dowries as appointed; and there is no blame on you about what you mutually agree after what is appointed; surely Allah is Knowing, Wise.
[33.52] It is not allowed to you to take women afterwards, nor that you should change them for other wives, though their beauty be pleasing to you, except what your right hand possesses and Allah is Watchful over all things.
70.29] And those who guard their private parts,
[70.30] Except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed,
Exception for MO
[33.50] O Prophet! surely We have made lawful to you your wives whom you have given their dowries, and those whom your right hand possesses out of those whom Allah has given to you as prisoners of war, and the daughters of your paternal uncles and the daughters of your paternal aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and the daughters of your maternal aunts who fled with you; and a believing woman if she gave herself to the Prophet, if the Prophet desired to marry her-- specially for you, not for the (rest of) believers; We know what We have ordained for them concerning their wives and those whom their right hands possess in order that no blame may attach to you; and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
The words of Aisha
‘Aisha remarked, "It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire." Sahih Muslim vol.2 book 8 no.3453-3454 p.748-749.
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dakmanzero (m)
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Hmmm. The exemption verse is interesting. Anyone (babs?) care to comment on that- perhaps provide some context or an explanation?
Perhaps an explanation of the term 'right hand posesses'?
also, @nossycheek:
1) Care to provide references for the 16 wives and 2 concubines claims?
2) The temporary wives (while travelling) claim?
Also, on a personal note, were you a Muslim at any point in your history?
NOTE: the suckling issue was amusing, but it is important to note that the adoption clause applies to the prepubescent only, unless I am mistaken.
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babyosisi (f)
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You mean if i want to make any girl unlawful for me she must suckle me? Can i sue her for refusing to suckle me? Will it be islamophobia to refuse to provide suckling rooms in all government buildings? Suckling rooms,lol. don't you remember when we first talked about the suckling issue in the thread that revealed Mohammed hitting aisha on the chest. What the Egyptian professor is proposing is nothing new. Mohammed already gave the same advise so a precedent had already been set. He advised a woman to suckle a grown man that was acquired as a boy slave so that supposedly she would not have sexual contacts with him. How stupid! I'm sure the man enjoyed the suckling Salim was the young man that needed suckling. and abu hudaifa was the jealous husband of the woman who had been fearful that the slave salim may be fancying his wifesee the relevant hadiths. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book 008, Number 3424: ' A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be eupon him) and said: Messengerof Allah, I see on the face of Abu Hudhaifa (signs of disgust) on entering of Salim (who is an ally) into (our house), whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him. She said: How can I suckle him as he is a grown-up man? Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) smiled and said: I already know that he is a young man 'Amr has made this addition in his narration that he participated in the Battle of Badr and in the narration of Ibn 'Umar (the words are): Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) laughed. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book 008, Number 3425: 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Salim has attained (purbety) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book 008, Number 3426: Ibn Abu Mulaika reported that al-Qasim b. Muhammad b. Abu Bakr had narrated to him that 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Sahla bint Suhail b. 'Amr came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: Messenger of Allah, Salim (the freed slave of Abu Hudhaifa) is living with us in our house, and he has attained (puberty) as men attain it and has acquired knowledge (of the sex problems) as men acquire, whereupon he said: Suckle him so that he may become unlawful (in regard to marriage) for you He (Ibn Abu Mulaika) said: I refrained from (narrating this hadith) for a year or so on account of fear. I then met al-Qasim and said to him: You narrated to me a hadith which I did not narrate (to anyone) afterwards. He said: What is that? I informed him, whereupon he said: Narrate it on my authority that 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) had narrated that to me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Book 008, Number 3427: Umm Salama said to 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her): A young boy who is at the threshold of puberty comes to you. I, however, do not like that he should come to me, whereupon 'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) said: Don't you see in Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) a model for you? She also said: The wife of Abu Hudhaifa said: Messenger of Allah, Salim comes to me and now he is a (grown-up) person, and there is something that (rankles) in the mind of Abu Hudhaifa about him, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Suckle him (so that he may become your foster-child), and thus he may be able to come to you (freely). |
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babyosisi (f)
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I think any tolerant Govt in the 21st century must provide suckling rooms to enable our Muslim brothers perform their religious obligations.To deny them this inalienable right would be nothing short of bigotry.
We should also teach the women to provide ready access to their mammary glands.Failure to provide such access is haram!
ROFL. I wonder what would happen to a woman that refuses to give suckle to these grown men?
1,000 lashes of koboko?
women don suffer
Husbands will now force their wives to suckle every man in the neighborhood to keep her from being promiscous
When a man suspects his wife may have wondering eyes or a man may have a thing for his wife,the solution will be to get the perverted man suckle on his wife perhaps under the watchful eyes of a suckling police to make sure he really did nurse appropriately.
God have mercy!
How insane,are these people devoid of full thinking faculty or what? |
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omoge (f)
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wait oo, what is the sucking thing here? i mean what are they sucking? breast? just wan to know 
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babyosisi (f)
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omoge you better believe it.
The woman literally would whip out her head lights and the man latches on
Who know if there would be a a required time of suckling needed to make it valid.
If I were an Islamic woman,I'll design an e-suckling
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Telly B (m)
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Hmmm?  |
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gbade. x (m)
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e-suckling? Babyosisi you are one crazy mutha! |
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thesilent1 (m)
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what the ?!?!?!?!?
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nossycheek (f)
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@dakmanzero The Followings are the women MO had sexual relationship with evidence from the hadiths, independent of Ali Dashti, EXCEPT no 12, which no evidence has been found. 1. Khadija/Khadijah bint Khuwailid/Khywaylid - died first 2. Sauda/Sawda bint Zam’a 3. 'Aisha/Aesha/’A’ishah - 8 to 9 years old, 2nd wife 'Aisha's Slaves 'Aisha and the Battle of the Camel 4. Omm/’Umm Salama/Salamah 5. Hafsa/Hafsah 6. Zaynab/Zainab of Jahsh 7. Juwairiya/Jowayriya bint Harith 9. Safiya/Safiyya bint Huyai/Huyayy bint Akhtab 10. Maymuna/Maimuna of Hareth 11. Fatima/Fatema/Fatimah 12. Hend/Hind 13. Asma of Saba (Sana bint Asma') 14. Zaynab of Khozayma 15. Habla? 16. Divorced Asma of Noman / bint al-Nu’man ¾slaves / concubines ¾ 17. Mary the Copt/Christian 18. Rayhana/Raihana/Rayhanah bint Zayd/Zaid ¾uncertain relationship - 19. Divorced Omm Sharik 20. Maymuna/Maimuna (slave girl?) 21. Zaynab/Zainab the third? 22. Khawla / Khawlah 23. Divorced Mulaykah bint Dawud 24. Divorced al-Shanba’ bint ‘Amr 25. Divorced al-‘Aliyyah 26. Divorced ‘Amrah bint Yazid 27. Divorced an Unnamed Woman 28. Qutaylah bint Qays (died right away) 29. Sana bint Sufyan 30. Sharaf bint Khalifah Mohammed married 15 women and consummated his marriages with 13. (al-Tabari vol.9 p.126-127) Source: http://muslimhope.com/WhyDidMohammedGetSoManyWives.htm |
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nossycheek (f)
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@darkmanzero temporary marriage in Islam also known as Misyar marriage A Misyar Marriage is a unique Sunni Muslim innovation. Misyar marriage is defined as an official marital "relationship" between a man and a woman who do not live together, and where the husband is not financially responsible for a Misyar wife. Misyar can be a temporary arrangement, but unlike the Mut'a marriage, which ends on the expiration date of the contract, the Misyar has no certain date for divorce, and it is up to the man to divorce his wife whenever, or if ever, he feels like doing so. The difference between a Misyar marriage and a normal marriage, is that the couple does not live in one household but remain on a visitor's basis. http://answering-islam.orgThis is different from Contract marriage called MUT'A This is a temporary marriage for a stipulated amount of time. A Shi'ite belief, and generally not accepted by Sunni Muslims. There is a variant verse in the Qur'an which Shi'ites used to justify this practice. "[Ubayy] was credited with reading Q 4.24, a verse charged with significance for the Muslim law on marriage, in a variant version: fa ma sta mta`tum bihi minhunna [ila ajalin musamman]" (Abu Bakr `Abdullah b. abi Da'ud, "K. al Masahif", ed. A. Jeffery, Cairo, 1936/1355, p. 53, quoted by John Burton, The Collection of the Qur'an, 1977, p. 35) Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib: On the day of Khaibar, Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a (i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat. (Sahih Bukhari 5.527) Narrated Abdullah: We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you." (Sahih Bukhari 6.139) Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah and Salama bin Al-Akwa': While we were in an army, Allah's Apostle came to us and said, "You have been allowed to do the Mut'a (marriage), so do it." Salama bin Al-Akwa' said: Allah's Apostle's said, "If a man and a woman agree (to marry temporarily), their marriage should last for three nights, and if they like to continue, they can do so; and if they want to separate, they can do so." I do not know whether that was only for us or for all the people in general. Abu Abdullah (Al-Bukhari) said: 'Ali made it clear that the Prophet said, "The Mut'a marriage has been cancelled (made unlawful)." (Sahih Bukhari 7.52) It can be interpreted two ways, either that tempo marriage was forbidden for only that day or completely, hence the continuation of the practice by some muslim sects. |
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nossycheek (f)
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@darkmanzero Modern apologists of Islam try to downplay the evident materialism and sexual implications of such descriptions, but, as the Encyclopaedia of Islam says, even orthodox Muslim theologians such as al Ghazali (died 1111 CE) and Al-Ash'ari (died 935 CE) have "admitted sensual pleasures into paradise". The sensual pleasures are graphically elaborated by Al-Suyuti (died 1505 ), Koranic commentator and polymath. He wrote: "Each time we sleep with a houri we find her virgin. Besides, the privates of the Elected never softens. The erection is eternal; the sensation that you feel each time you make love is utterly delicious and out of this world and were you to experience it in this world you would faint. Each chosen one [ie Muslim] will marry seventy [sic] houris, besides the women he married on earth, and all will have appetising vaginas." http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,631332,00.html |
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