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alarinjo (m)
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Drusilla,
the only reason I know you are citing falsehoods is because I actually took the time to check out your claims, they are either outmoded, propagandist or just unreasonable fabrications.
You mean "autobigraphies" which one exactly are you citing, and who is the other, where does he stand on the issue of homosexuality?
I spose you are also going to claim that Alice Walker (a bisexual) is straight because she has had heterosexual relationships in spite of the homoerotic scenes in her Pulitzer prize winning Color Purple which, by the way, Quincy Jones and Stephen Spielberg did a nifty job of taming down in the movie version, sigh! And what of your beloved James Baldwin who actually wrote publicly about his homosexuality in at least one novel? Is he also mentally deranged?
Ashiwaju,
Don't get so pissy because there is someone advocating an objective look at the debate from another perspective. The only reason I cited that list is to challenge the unfounded idea that homosexuals are mentally deranged, which they are not.Quit the talk about mental sickness already, it sounds so embarrassingly ignorant. This has nothing to do with emulating anything from the West. The last time I checked, the initial issue was about Nigerians like you and I who risk being thrown into jail unjustly because of their sexuality. If you knew better you would know that some of the names in that list are actually renowned blacks, one such name which I forgot to add was Kwame Anthony Appiah: a respected African philosopher. Sexuality has nothing to do with culture or race, it is a universal human phenomena.
I deduce from your post in another thread that you will be quite happy to have your brother go to jail if he turns out gay, yes you will probably not disown him, but you will be happy that the government has helped you secure him in his gay community in jail, away from the world own heterosexuals. Well, some of us would not want that to happen to friends or relatives, so we might as well speak out.
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Drusilla (f)
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Alarinjo,
See that is the type of desparation that homosexuals are forced too.
She wrote lesbian scene in book. So now she is a homosexual?
Is that how gays came to that conclusion? No more evidence than that?
Of course you looked up the information and found it is all true.
And of course the homosexuals claim it is all propaganda.
What did you expect them to say?
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alarinjo (m)
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Drusilla,
now we clearly see where the chips are falling. Try to blame African immigrants for the high rate of HIV infection amongst African Americans and you reveal the height of your ignorance and prejudice: "I should count myself lucky?" For what? I count myself lucky that I am not an African American on the downlow.
Since you have such a sharp demarcation of African Americans and Africans in your mind (not to say there isn't) you should advocate that African Americans be thrown in jail for their sexuality (I can at least count three members of your family who would be there by now if I am to accept your former posts). However stop advocating the validity of a law which makes no sense and only persecutes people in a distant continent that you prolly have no real understanding of, save a romanticized pristineness or the chaotic jungle that your Western media propagates.
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alarinjo (m)
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Alarinjo, See that is the type of desparation that homosexuals are forced too.
She wrote lesbian scene in book. So now she is a homosexual?
Is that how gays came to that conclusion? No more evidence than that?
Of course you looked up the information and found it is all true.
And of course the homosexuals claim it is all propaganda.
What did you expect them to say? No no no no! It is the other way around. What do I expect heterosexual bigots to say is what you mean. I am sure, Walker, or Baldwin, if you had the honor of conversing with them will not deny their sexuality. It is nervous people like you who try to "save" an imagined black culture who will go no length to prove that white is black and black is white! |
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food4tot (f)
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I used to know of a male dog trying to bugger another male dog.
I knew straight away that there was something very WRONG with him.
Am I a genius or what?
eerr, I don't think so, I just know when something aint right.
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Drusilla (f)
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food4tot,   |
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Drusilla (f)
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Alarinjo,
Why did I tell you to ask me for verification of the fact that African Immigrants in fact are inflating African American AIDS numbers?
And you still refuse to ask me to verify my facts?
I knew you would do that.
It is because you do not like the facts to get in the way of what you want to think.
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alarinjo (m)
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LOL. Drusilla, don't be so trivial. No one is stopping you from publishing your findings online. This is a public forum. But if you are waiting for me to give you permission before you publish them, then you're going to wait forever. I'D rather spend my time constructing sensible debates than waste time playing online tag! I have put it to your face that you are citing falsehoods, I think if you really had anything to challenge my accusation you would publish them without waiting for my permission to do so. And even then, what you or I say will always be subject to debate. I repeat, Africans are not the cause of the growing rate of HIV amongst African Americans! I used to know of a male dog trying to bugger another male dog.
I knew straight away that there was something very WRONG with him.
Am I a genius or what?
eerr, I don't think so, I just know when something aint right. It is in fact common knowledge that amongst animals of all species, including the human animal, at least 1% of them purpose same sex relationships. Only a meagerly 1%! It doesn't show that there is anything wrong with the animal, only one more manifestation of the diversity of human expression. Because it is present only in 1% if all animal species, we don't come across it as frequently. Naturally this makes us wonder when we do come across it, if it is normal. But you cannot just assume that it is abnormal based on gut feelings or your unfamiliarity with it. This would be analogous to a white man who concludes, on seeing a black person for the first time in his life, that black people are abnormal or inferior because of the color of their skin, shape of their lips, texture of hair etc etc! The same applies to a black person who sees a white person for the first time. This, we know has been the cause of much discrimination in our history. No, you cannot know a thing is bad just by "knowing" that is why we have science for crying out loud! |
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food4tot (f)
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point noted, but really, madness is relative. If everyone in your town is gay (and you are not) then you are the mad man. Wait a minute! If everybody likes short people then 1000 years down the line, the tallest person would probably be 4ft 4in !!!  . . .if everyone in a village is gay then that would mean they are treading the path to extinction. 2 + 2 = 22, So the mad people will eventually become extinct. Eureka! Darwin's theory!!! I think it is called survival of the fitest or something like that. |
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Ashiwaju (m)
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Ashiwaju,
I deduce from your post in another thread that you will be quite happy to have your brother go to jail if he turns out gay, yes you will probably not disown him, but you will be happy that the government has helped you secure him in his gay community in jail, away from the world own heterosexuals. Well, some of us would not want that to happen to friends or relatives, so we might as well speak out.
Well, if this is ur own interpretion of what i said on anada thread then i clearly understand ur reason to be impossible. Goshhh, please take the whole of today and read that post you reffered to ova and ova again. Mheeeeeen |
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Drusilla (f)
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Alarinjo, It is of course already published online by the doctors and medical associations. I have of course fought with my African American friends because of their intense hatred of anything African Continental, they want to make a big deal out of it. I tell them, if we start to make a big deal out of it, more African Immigrants will be put out of America. (African Immigrants are already put out of America, more than Muslims or people from the Middle East or Mexicans) Already Africans are not welcome in a lot of countries because of their AIDS. We fought a long time to stop the government from only letting white immigrants into America, we do not want to disturb this now that they are finally letting Africans in. Across The Nation | HIV Infections Increase Among White Men, African Immigrants in Minnesota [Apr 17, 2002] HIV infections are rising among white men and African-born immigrants in Minnesota, although the data are too new to suggest a long-term trend, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reports. New HIV infections among white men in the state increased 40% last year, with most of the new infections occurring among gay and bisexual men, according to the data released on Monday by the Minnesota Health Department. Officials noted that the increase may indicate that young adults "have a cavalier attitude about AIDS" or that people with HIV who are living longer due to treatment advances are spreading the virus to more people. However, officials warned that it is too early to tell whether the increase would be sustained in future years. " ne year does not a trend make," Dr. Gary Remafedi, director of the Youth and AIDS Project at the University of Minnesota, said, adding that another two years' worth of data is necessary before researchers can determine a pattern.
Fighting HIV/AIDS in the Immigrant Community
HIV infections among African-born immigrants in Minnesota also increased by 61% last year. Although such immigrants make up less than 1% of the state's population, they represent 16% of its new HIV infections. Dr. Keith Henry, an AIDS researcher at Hennepin County Medical Center, said that many of his immigrant patients contracted HIV in their native countries before coming to the United States. Although Minnesota's immigrant population is still small, it has been steadily increasing since the mid-1990s. However, until this year, the state health department had classified data on African immigrants with data on the state's black population as a whole, a grouping that exaggerated HIV infection rates among the overall black community. Saheed Fahia, executive director of the Confederation of Somali Communities in Minnesota, said that he is concerned that prevention messages are not reaching African immigrants. He noted that, due to cultural stigmas, immigrants are not likely to attend sessions advertised as discussions on AIDS or safe sex (Marcotty, Minneapolis Star Tribune, 4/16).
http://www.kaisernetwork.org/Daily_reports/rep_index.cfm?DR_ID=10649
You see that Alarinjo? There is a health foundation talking about the fact that as AIDS is counted in America, when they include African Immigrants with African Americans, it exxagerates our rate of AIDS. AIDS pimps know it too. But they keep it quiet also because they know that there could be a terrible backlash against funding for AIDS. If people understood that it's not really Americans but immigrants who need the great amount of funding. Between immigrants and homosexuals? Who would give extra funding for these two groups? Nobody. So African Americans are said to be the culprit. With white liberal guilt, they can get the funding they need using the African American name. I say let them. Because the African American community is isolated in general. So thus we do not have to worry that too much about African Immigrants giving AIDS to African Americans. They will give that to the whites they date and love. |
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Drusilla (f)
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Alarinjo,
Would you like to see the proof another way?
The top two African American cities in America?
That are overwhelmingly African American?
Detroit, Michigan and Gary, Indiana.
The top two places that AIDS for African Americans?
New York City (African Immigrants)
Florida (Carribean Immigrants)
Isn't it strange that African Americans top two cities, where they are by far the majority residents, doesn't even make the top ten of where AIDS for African Americans is?
I can show you links for all of that too. But I am lazy. Maybe later.
Somebody take kindness for weakness.
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Drusilla (f)
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Not only are we blamed for the AIDS among African Immigrants.
We (African Americans) actually have one of the lowest aids rates in the country.
We do not have all those homosexuals in our communities.
So that helps.
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Seun (m)
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It's funny how nobody knows whether the bill has been passed or not. Lack of transparency.
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ezioku (m)
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I stand amazed that a country as corrupt as ours have not yet passed abill ostracising corrupt politicians yet they want to make a mountain out of a mole hill by distracting us and those who cannot see beyond their nose are thinking it is cheering news.
First of all let me state that i am not in support of gay marriages after all America does not support gay marriages but they do not trample on the rights of their citizens like this law intends to by stating that even you even human rights group fighting for gay rights could even be imprisoned. Such homophobia and xenophobia will not help us . If the Government wants to ban same sex marriage it is fine but it should be no more that .For your information and those who are so emotional about this remember the bill also includes bisexuals so those who are married and think they are free would soon find out that this whole issue will soon turn out to be a money spinning machine for the police and other law enforcement agencies. This same law is used against political opponents in nearby Cameroun,would it surprise you if this turns out to be another EFCC doctored list at the right time? I am also concerned that this Govt has also sent a bill seeking to intercept e-mails.What do they really want? There are lots of bills in the NA ie tax reform bills and other bills that could improve the lot of Nigerians and we are expending energy on a bill that is already banned by our existing laws.
What about a stringent law for adulterers,fornicators so that people who sleep with other people wives and single people who engage in sexual activities outside wedlock should be penalised.
How about a law as strong as this for treasury looters? The bible says thou shall not steal. Is treasury looting not immoral?
Most of the people that are rushing to pass this bill without knowing what those close to them are doing,by the time it passes into law and you find out your son,daughter,husband,mother,father,brother or good friend is homosexual or bisexual what do you do?I am quite confident a lot of people will develop cold feet as to what their actions will be.
If Nigeria is really serious about this bill it should go a step further by repudiating all the human rights treaties it has signed without reservation. Otherwise by the time constitutional and human issues are raised on this anti-21st century bill it might be thrown out and declared null and void.
Nigerians only like to travel and unfortunately only like to imbibe crude ideas,otherwise i do not see how people who live in this 21st century will be telling people that they should not even sit down with someone whose preference is his business for a drink.
Will this bill state the Procedures the law enforcement would follow before arresting a homosexual or would it be by hearsay?
In sum,I am of the opinion we have enough laws and the marriage act does not encourage same sex and criminal code already have provisions against lesbianism and homosexuality. National assembly should be careful that they do not allow this law to come out as one that will be used to witch hunt them in the future becuase as that bill stand from what i have seen any one could be tagged as gay or bisexual. There is more in that bill than meets the eye.
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Drusilla (f)
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Ezioku,
I believe the bible.
Romans 1:26 For this cause, God gave them up to dishonorable affections. For even their women changed the natural use into that which is against nature.
If God gave up the gays to their ways.
It's not my job to be chasing and hunting them down and trying to harm them.
It is my christianity that would not allow me to support anything as intrusive and harmful as this bill. Ban the marriages, yeah, leave that institution as it has always been.
But hunting down people? No. The bible is against that.
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Hnd-holder (m)
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Taste of all things in life but hurt no human being
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oyinboaja
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I tell them, if we start to make a big deal out of it, more African Immigrants will be put out of America. (African Immigrants are already put out of America, more than Muslims or people from the Middle East or Mexicans) Already Africans are not welcome in a lot of countries because of their AIDS.
You see that Alarinjo? There is a health foundation talking about the fact that as AIDS is counted in America, when they include African Immigrants with African Americans, it exxagerates our rate of AIDS.
AIDS pimps know it too. But they keep it quiet also because they know that there could be a terrible backlash against funding for AIDS.
If people understood that it's not really Americans but immigrants who need the great amount of funding.
Between immigrants and homosexuals? Who would give extra funding for these two groups?
Nobody.
So African Americans are said to be the culprit. With white liberal guilt, they can get the funding they need using the African American name.
I say let them.
Because the African American community is isolated in general. So thus we do not have to worry that too much about African Immigrants giving AIDS to African Americans. They will give that to the whites they date and love.
Na you and your people get AIDS, not Africans. arrant nonsense |
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ezioku (m)
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Those who think that this bill is all about morality should read what a legislator said about the bill in the second to the last paragraph. It is going to be used for election and to haunt political opponents. Forumites should feel free to comment
Nigeria Moves Forward On Bill To Outlaw Virtually All Forms Of Gay Expression
by The Associated Press
Posted: February 14, 2007 - 1:00 pm ET
(Abuja) The National Assembly held public hearings Wednesday on a bill to ban gay marriage and criminalize virtually all forms of gay expression in Nigeria.
The bill lays down penalties of up to five years for anyone watching or reading material deemed to be pro-gay either in public or in their own homes, and even would forbids meetings between two gay people.
In part, the proposed bill reads:
``Any person who is involved in the registration of gay clubs, societies and organizations, sustenance, procession or meetings, publicity and public show of same sex amorous relationship directly or indirectly in public and in private is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction to a term of five years imprisonment.''
Backers of the legislation said gay acts, which are already illegal in Nigeria, run counter to cultural and religious mores in the deeply traditional West African country.
Human rights officials said the law, which would hand prison sentences to anyone participating in gay marriages, would curtail Nigerians' rights.
``We are here to express our deep concern about the same sex marriage provision act,'' said Rev. Rowland Jide Macauley, a pastor and member of the Coalition For the Defence of Sexual Rights in Nigeria.
``We as members of the human rights community belief that the provision of the bill will, in fact, undermine the democratic life in Nigeria.''
An adviser on health care issues to President Olusegun Obasanjo, whose government is sponsoring the bill, said gay relations led to social and health ills.
``Same sex relationships are characterized by unhealthy behaviour including instability, promiscuity and risky sexual practices,'' said Friday Okonofua.
``That means effort to reduce the consequences of same sex marriage is an important public health initiative.''
Opponents say the legislation is loosely worded and could be used to persecute virtually anyone. Gay sex is already illegal in Nigeria, punishable by imprisonment in the south and death in the Muslim north.
Abdul Oroh, a legislator, said assembly leaders hoped to schedule a vote before April elections, where the act could be used as a campaign tool.
The bill must pass with two-thirds support in both the House of Representatives and the Senate, which together constitute the National Assembly. If passed, Obasanjo is expected to sign the bill into law.
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abdkabir (m)
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In Naija, Almost everything is related to Oil and Politics!
Double Wahala.
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slimnike (m)
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Shame to those that first brought the idea.
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Seun (m)
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Hehe. When did our corrupt politicians suddenly become moral crusaders? Of course it's a political trick!  |
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adconline (m)
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exercise in futility. National Assembly that does not have the liver to tell OBJ and ATIKU that they broke the law by misusing public funds. This is Nigerian Terry Schiavo
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ezioku (m)
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Forumites,
Below is my memoranda to the senate president on same sex bill copied to International Human rights organisations. Constructive comments will be welcome.
____________________________________________________________ ________
Dear Mr Senate President
I have elected to send this e-mail owing to the bigoted and hypocritical nature of our society. I am going to bring a few home truth to your attention which i am sure a lot of people might feel uncomfortable with it but they will admit in their quiet moments that the message in this e-mail is nothing but the truth.
Although i have not seen the part relating to "other Matters connected therewith" I have become aware through several Human rights websites that is far reaching,draconian and an erosion of privacy and human rights and not gay rights in that it even conflicts with aspects of constitutional rights of Nigerians and violates African charter of human rights and Universal declaration of human rights which Nigeria signed without reservation.
I will choose not to be emotional about this topic,however i am going to raise fundamental questions for you to deliberate on while trying to find a middle course on how to satisfy the wishes of our brothers who have turned themselves into bigots all in the bid to give people the impression that they are saints.
I believe you must be aware through the submissions of Human rights groups on the specific sections of Our constitution that this law may violate and i believe both of you are very conversant with the constitution so i will not bother to bore you with specific sections. I however would like to bring to your attention that this bill may have a political undertone. It may sound curious but i will like to let you know that in Cameroun this same laws are used to witch hunt political opponents. I was thinking the bill was just to ban same sex marriages until i got a copy of it through the web. The bill is anti-democratic,let us not hide under the cloak of religious fervour and pass a bill that will have negative effect on us all in the future. Currently i am aware that the EFCC bill is about to be amended owing to the enormous powers it gave to the president and Attorney General. If the national Assembly is not careful they will get more than they bargained for in this bill.
The Bill prohibits any expression,affirmation,and provision of sympathetic advise. Surfing of gay websites ,movies,books or video is prohibited. Would this include lawyers who will defend their clients or offer proffessional advise on the bill? Would this not be an erosion of the right to fair hearing?
Before i raise the following questions,i will like to share an experience with you to let you know how hypocritical and selective nigerians can be.A lot of people are so emotional that they are even prescribing 10years imprisonment for same sex relationships/marriage. However when one of the forumites asked a question in Naira land ie If your child is gay would you like him to be sent to jail? the answer was My child will not be gay in Jesus name, another person said I will love my child but will condemn his acts. Inotherwords if their children become gay the law should not take effect if they can help it but other peoples brothers,sisters, and children should go to jail. How hypocritical Nigerians can be. I can assure you Members of the national Assembly that if this bill is past a lot of selective criteria will be applied. It will only be a law for those who are not in the ruling political party or those who fall out with the presidency. Some legislators in the Human rights committees have already questioning why the bill is being rushed and the intent of the bill is a well gaurded secret,it will be used for the April elections. If anti corruption bill does not stop you,this bill will stop you,that is the game plan especially now that it includes bisexuals those that are married cannot use that as a plea.Will this bill not turn out to be another doctored anti-corruption list? I am of the opinion that this bill has political colouration and that is the reason for the undue haste and speed to pass it into law without allowing extensive debate on its provision as has been observed by international Human roghts groups. sameSex marriage is the cover page,what about the contents of other matters connected therewith,have those sections received same publicity. It hasn't because they are anti 21st century and the sponsors know it. That is the reason why they push muslim and christian clerics to scare people. But for me i am not scared of them but of God and most of them cannot claim to be epitomes of justice and truth. They do not tell our leaders the truth. For reasons best known to them.
Be that as it may,i will like to ask a few questions
What will be benchmark and methodology for determining someone who is bisexual or gay and consenting and responsible adults who do not display their amourous affairs in public taking into cognisance the following scenarios
A) 2 girls/guys sharing a flat. Do you arrest them and tag them gay? Would that not bring about plethora of cases against this bill?
B)Two girls/guys hugging and holding hand after not seeing themselves for a long while
C)How do you decide who is aiding and abetting the act , if a parent is aware of their child sexual preference and they have been advising against it but have not reported to the police. Should they go to jail? Which parent even the Religious bigots will report his beloved child to the police? Would they not rather chicken out and seek for ways of sending their children out of the country while continuing to pay lip service to this bill in their churches and mosques?
D) Can one be prosecuted if a gay book is found in your possession? Can Govt agents not plant gay books and Videos on political opponents?Remember if even if you are married you can be tagged a bisexual and that is part of the bill so where does that leave all of us? Would that not break a lot of marriages,if it does have we succeeded in upholding our "so called" selective values and culture?
Can Nigerians really beat their chest and say we have values with all the brazen looting of state funds and politcal motivated killings? Why are we such a pretencious and selective nation? Would our lives not have been better of if we pass laws as draconian as this against corruption?
E) Some say gay sex is barbaric, satanic and unbiblical and imported from the West. Is Christianity and Islam not imported? Does the Holy Bible and Koran support looting of treasury(stealing) and Adultery? Are some of the islamic laws not barbaric? Like cutting of the arm of a hungry child that steals food?
F)What about if i decided to carry out a research on homosexuality,will my surfing the web for the topic turn to an offence? In this 21st century?
H)Even an advise to Government that this law is unfair could land you in prison. How many parents,brothers,sisters,cousins will not be affected?
Our criminal and marriage act does not support same sex marriage so why wasting time with this bill when the bill on freedom of Information has been primed to fail to deny citizens from having access to Govt expenditure etc. What about all the other bills that are supposed to improve the welfare of Nigerians ie Nigerian content Bill in the oil industry has it been passed into law?
In sum, I consider this bill obnoxious,archaic,retrogressive,anti-democratic and a reversion to the hobbesian state of nature where life is short,Nasty and brutish. Lets all be careful so that we do not give an opportunity for people to trample on our rights. I will urge all of you to speak out. This brings memory of the the famous poem by Martin Niemollar -First they came,
First they came for the Jews
But i did not speak up becuase i was not a Jew
Then they came for the communist
I did not speak up because i was not a communist
Then theycame for the trade unionist
But i didnt speak up because i was not a trade unionist
Then they came for the catholics
I did not speak up because i was a protestant
Then they came for me
And by that time no one was left to speak up.
Dear Sir, You may wish to pass this information to members of the committees dealing with this issue. I wish you all the best and sincerely hope that the issues i have raised will assist your job of throwing out this bill. I am counting on your usual transparency and forthrightness on matters which bother on fairness and justice.
Yours Faith fully
Ezioku B.Ndu
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Pain
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@Eziok, U make a lot of sense. Never looked at it from your perspective. I must admit ive been enlightened. This is food for thot.  |
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phardylart (f)
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i believe that we should not frown at homosexuals because of the way they are and definitely should not propose to impose any sort of ban on them. you see these people have the right to life and free association too. and anyway its their life and nobody should tell them how to live it. so, they are of the same sex! so what? what of all those lecherous old men in the high places who have nasty sexual habits? what of those nearly senile old men who can not get it up if they don't have an underage girl and i am talking really underage like 9,8,10 etc? what laws are going to guard against those forms of immorality. These people busy sucking us dry in this country, have suddenly grown consciences, wonders shall never end!  |
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jaguda (m)
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My take is Yes BAN IT! yes, ban am but don't be fooled that by diverting attention to these frivolous issues, will shift the attention of Nigerians on the deplorable state of the nation. Na Lesbians dey rape Men, or na Homosexuals dey rape women? Or our politicians dt are stealing us dry, are they hetrosxuals or homosexuals? Just note - OBJ - that, Le me use ur own words, Time will Judge U. but wait oooo, see as Naija babes dey reach, man go come dey toast dry boned guys? abeg naija babes too much, man never fit finish with Ekaete for Park, una dey talk of Muftau, God forbid bad thing! AGAIN- I SAY NO TO SAME SEX RELATIONSHIPS AND MARRIAGES. |
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osegwu (m)
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Lets call a spade a spade. There is no need for us to speak with venom over this issue.
This is one of the most reasonable things the government has done in recent time.
We are saying they are diverting attention but if they had diverted attention when it
came to corruption then we will not have been in this deplorable state we are in now.
Even if they say it is outright execution i would still not blame them.
Jeez, this is perversion at the highest order and the sooner it is discouraged the better
it will be for everybody.
@ seun
How will you feel if you found out that your son is a Homo? Try fitting yourself in the
shoes of the parents of those perverts and see if it will hurt you.
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Blow (m)
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You cannot trivialise the same sex legislation by tagging it political, When is it the right time to outlaw a crime, @Seun If some people had exhibited this kind of foresight to make laws to ban fornication and adultery in the past, I think such acts would have being reduced by now. Nonetheless people that are involved in fornication and adultery don't usually come out to say it's natural to be promiscuous, so the acts are right
So just accept and encourage me when I sleep with your wife That is exactly what Homosexuals are asking for. And the legislature are enlightened enough to see the growing trends of this shameful act at this present time all over the world So they have to nip it in the bud. It's just like cancer the earlier you start treating it the better for you. Infact at most time you need to cut off the cancerous lump. |
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