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oasis
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what r u guys griping about? boys, grow up.
What's wrong with discussing the issues? That's how people share ideas and learn new things. Have you been to the US or UK parliamentary discussions? Would you call the people kids because they disagree with one another? I don't mind somebody critiquing my work, as long as it doesn't deteriorate into gutter language. and for the SEO junkies. we all know the SEO market is 'oja okunkun' without a definite answer. you need multitude of strategies to be able to achieve anything.
How much do you know about SEO? I know many people are in the habit of bandying new terms about without actually having a full understanding of its meaning. has any of u dudes heard about AJAX? you should go to www.37signals.com. people r talking about usability and accessibility. Funny you should mention usability/accessibility and ajax in the same sentence. The fact is, careless use of ajax could render your site unusable. Only the newest browsers support ajax. Depending on your targe audience, ajax may not be the solution. So, test your ajax design well on all browsers before you launch it. Unless I have a compelling reason to use ajax, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. |
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kris (m)
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So many post, where do i start!?
Ok, Oasis i must addmit that you tend to follow things just 'cause some one said it. Talking about "Get rid of the monter 115K graphic. A graphic should be a max of 15K, or the SE's will run for the hills. Unless of course you have plenty of text."
So why would you make your graphics 15k in the first place? Well it's all about load time! Right!? And guess what my target audience all run all DSL, so my 115k image loads up in seconds.
For those talking about html, save my site and go through the images and see if you can piece them together using html. I don't just put chunks of images on my site, i break them down and piece them together with my html skills.
And you want to know why i don't bother about google indexing my site? Well it's not meant to be found online. My future clients want to see my portfolio, and i give them the address. Of course i know how to work with meta tags and all that, but i just don't bother when i don't need to.
Yes i have gone through validating my site and found those errors, but i got caught up with other things and never looked at it again.
Iframe is still works better than div for me. My site renders the same on Mac OS X, Windows and Unix platforms running Safari, IE, Firefox, Camino, Opera. So i think that's enough.
I see why you are on about search engine and search engine, well your site depends largely on it. But not me. I don't need that much traffic for my portfolio site, i get enough traffic from my free news paper ad.
Ok i've got to go have breakfast, i'ma come back and write more!
Peace in the middle east!
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kris (m)
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Da king is back!
Yo! There's no accessibility problem if you get yourself "Ajax In Action".
You are taught to develop accessible sites and then layer it with ajax, so if the browser can't handle ajax, then it works with the original site.
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mikebuddy (m)
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Why are you sad?
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thelastdon (m)
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never mind
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mikebuddy (m)
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Ok let me not poke nose.
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thelastdon (m)
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Police is your friend  |
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mikebuddy (m)
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E be like say police catch you today?.
Hmm
OPC is your friend.
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oasis
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So many post, where do i start!?
Ok, Oasis i must addmit that you tend to follow things just 'cause some one said it. Talking about "Get rid of the monter 115K graphic. A graphic should be a max of 15K, or the SE's will run for the hills. Unless of course you have plenty of text." And you like to go against the grain I see. Being a non-conformist more often than not puts you at a disadvantage in whatever you're doing, as I'll explain further below. So why would you make your graphics 15k in the first place? Well it's all about load time! Right!? And guess what my target audience all run all DSL, so my 115k image loads up in seconds.
You have a point about target audience there. However, unless your clients are totally not web-savvy, don't you think they'd take into consideration your design skills before they give you work? As a potential client, I wouldn't hire somebody who's design is heavy on graphics, because I know that would kill me in the search engines. For those talking about html, save my site and go through the images and see if you can piece them together using html. I don't just put chunks of images on my site, i break them down and piece them together with my html skills.
215K is still 215K my brother. Slice and dice it anyway you want, the page is still a monster bandwidth hog. Why use image that size when you can optimize it with photoshop down to a fraction of that? One more reason why I wouldn't hire you to design a site for me. Not you in particular, but generally speaking. And you want to know why i don't bother about google indexing my site? Well it's not meant to be found online. My future clients want to see my portfolio, and i give them the address. Of course i know how to work with meta tags and all that, but i just don't bother when i don't need to.
Back that statement up by adding this meta tag <meta name="robots" content="none" />. That'd keep the search engines away completely. Until you've done that, all you have is a bad design that is not SE-friendly. Yes i have gone through validating my site and found those errors, but i got caught up with other things and never looked at it again.
Iframe is still works better than div for me. My site renders the same on Mac OS X, Windows and Unix platforms running Safari, IE, Firefox, Camino, Opera. So i think that's enough.
You keep sinking deeper in this quakesand. If your site is really meant for your clients, you'd adhere to simple web-design rules that'd demonstrate your abilities. How would your client assess your skills, unless your website spells it out clearly? I see why you are on about search engine and search engine, well your site depends largely on it. But not me. I don't need that much traffic for my portfolio site, i get enough traffic from my free news paper ad.
Aren't you grasping at straws here? Free traffic never hurt anybody, so why wouldn't you want traffic? Your reason I guess for advertising in the newspaper is so people can visit your site, am I right? So why not let people visit from the search engines also? If your portfolio is meant to showcase your work, then do it right. That'd put you in favorable light with your clients. As for ajax code, that's cool if you can make it backwards compatible with most browsers. I do 100% handcoding. Lack of browser support is my reason for not messing with newfangled technology, unless I absolutely have to. God bless you my man. Keep working on those skills, and don't be so resistant to standard practices. It's the key to success. |
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joftech (m)
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If yall confer on me the title of Prophet i really really deserve it.
Before my forced hiatus, i predicted that this is going to be a thread where webmasters (even templaters) will come to flex their muscles. Now am more than justiified.
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dejiolowe (m)
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@oasis. i shouldnt be joining issues with u but i can bet my arse u don't have the foggiest idea about 1/4 of what you're arguing about. funny you should mention usability/accessibility and ajax in the same sentence.
The fact is, careless use of ajax could render your site unusable. Only the newest browsers support ajax. Depending on your targe audience, ajax may not be the solution. So, test your ajax design well on all browsers before you launch it. Unless I have a compelling reason to use ajax, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
1, ajax is one of the oldest technology out there and has been in internet explorer/mozilla since good old days. by the way, microsoft invested the technology and adaptive path gave it the name 2, ajax gives u more accessibility and usability than traditional web (if u know what you're doing) and since u don't know, as people who know before u advertise your ignorance. 3, what do i know about SEO? hmmm... mo rerin oyinbo! what do u know about SEO? Chief, go and chill. |
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mikebuddy (m)
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Posted by: joftech
Insert Quote
If yall confer on me the title of Prophet i really really deserve it.
Before my forced hiatus, i predicted that this is going to be a thread where webmasters (even templaters) will come to flex their muscles. Now am more than justiified.
Learn Corel draw the more!,you are good at it. |
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oasis
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@oasis. i shouldnt be joining issues with u but i can bet my arse u don't have the foggiest idea about 1/4 of what you're arguing about. Another one of those who dislikes his views being challenged. Let's discuss the issues. Don't get personal. 1, ajax is one of the oldest technology out there and has been in internet explorer/mozilla since good old days. by the way, microsoft invested the technology and adaptive path gave it the name
Microsoft added the function called XMLHttpRequest to IE5. Would you call that old days? And don't forget that no other browsers supported it till several years later. http://www.aaronsw.com/weblog/ajaxhistory2, ajax gives u more accessibility and usability than traditional web (if u know what you're doing) and since u don't know, as people who know before u advertise your ignorance.
Well, if nothing older than IE5 supports ajax, how can you claim that it gives you more accessibility and usability? Today, most new browser versions support it. But is it really a good idea to build a website that requires only the latest browsers to function? That limits usability and accessibility. 3, what do i know about SEO? hmmm... mo rerin oyinbo! what do u know about SEO? Chief, go and chill.
That was an innocent question from me, not a challenge to you. Apparently you read too much into it. So, let me re-iterate: Only the newest browsers support ajax. Depending on your target audience, ajax may not be the solution. So, test your ajax design well on all browsers before you launch it. Unless I have a compelling reason to use ajax, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. And as far as SEO goes, it's your only salvation on the web, unless you have millions of $$ to throw into advertising your website. |
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joftech (m)
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Why al these Ajax war. Ajax has come to become the new saviour of the web, take it or leave it Ajax will rule the web in no distant future. Gmail, Kahuna (new Hotmail) and also T he new Yahoo Mail they make good use of Ajax. This has shown that Ajax has come to stay. I dey go learn am now now.
Learn Corel draw the more!,you are good at it. @mikebuddy i don't know where i can clasify you. But i know for sure you are a wannabe, it's good but you must learn how not to run people down when you don't have genuine proof. If that was desgined in CorelDraw i will take it as an achievement (that will mean am proficient it that). You need to sit down with either PhotoShop or Fireworks to get that. |
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oasis
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Why al these Ajax war. Ajax has come to become the new saviour of the web, take it or leave it Ajax will rule the web in no distant future. Gmail, Kahuna (new Hotmail) and also The new Yahoo Mail they make good use of Ajax. This has shown that Ajax has come to stay. I dey go learn am now now.
You quote gmail, yahoo, hotmail, etc. Yes, those apps are built on ajax. However, if a browser is used that doesn't support it, they've also provided alternate versions. My point is that only newer browsers support ajax. If you get careless and start using ajax for every little thing, your site won't be usable for people with older browsers, or those that turn javascript off, unless you have the time to spend in creating two versions of your webpages like yahoo/google does. Don't make me keep repeating myself - my point if clear. |
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joftech (m)
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In this age of broadband internet i wonder if someone will still be tie down with obsolete apps. Backward compatibilty will always make someone backward in any project. These days 90% of web users have the latest apps on their systems. Anyway it's left for every developer to determine the technology and tools that will be suitable for him. No one can force anyone to use anything. We must all know the backend matter most. A clasical example is the WAEC and NECO online registration websites. Although the NECO site is more appealing to the eyes, but the back end is not that so good. WE MUST ALL DO THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THE CLIENT NOT TO REGRET INVESTING IN WEB TECHNOLOGY. |
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oasis
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In this age of broadband internet i wonder if someone will still be tie down with obsolete apps.
Backward compatibilty will always make someone backward in any project. These days 90% of web users have the latest apps on their systems.
Yes, but I'd rather be backward than lose 10% of the visitors that come to my site. You did say yourself that 10% of users don't have modern browsers. Anyway it's left for every developer to determine the technology and tools that will be suitable for him. No one can force anyone to use anything.
That's correct. The truth though is, most web developers are self-taught. So they know little about the semantics of what is out there and when not to use them. Most web developers have never read one RFC. Yet they claim to be developers. How can you be a developer if you don't know the recommended standard practices in your industry? We must all know the backend matter most. A clasical example is the WAEC and NECO online registration websites. Although the NECO site is more appealing to the eyes, but the back end is not that so good.
WE MUST ALL DO THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THE CLIENT NOT TO REGRET INVESTING IN WEB TECHNOLOGY.
Mallam, now you're talking! Assuming you build a website for a client that is not search engine friendly, and hence, the site gets no traffic. Would your client be happy to spend more money on another website? Tech people love using new terminology, even though they may not have fully considered its ramifications. |
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dejiolowe (m)
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@oasis. man, u trip me. when did IE5 come out? a single year on the web is forever. remember coldfusion (which i live on) came out in 95 and it was the first proper application server! ebay and amazon came out in 95?
the XMLHttpRequest was implemented in other browsers but it never became popular because the invocation is different as against internet explorer's own (check references please). XMLHttpRequest was invented for Outlook Web Access by MS for exchange 5.5
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joftech (m)
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The world is shifting from desktop apps to web 2.0 (web services) and the major thing that powers that is AJAX. We all need fucntional immediacy in our applications, AJax is what's going to deliver that on the web. I was on this site yesterday, so it happens that i wanted to do a registratiion for the forum (not knowing i already had an account there), as i finished entering my email i was told that the e-mail already exist (this is without clicking any submit button), isn't that great. I know the little problems that Ajax have right now (link state etc) will be solved when better specifications come out. Before nobody give a shit about CSS for layout, but with the introduction of positioning with CSS 2.0 we have seen a massive support for moving from table based layout to CSS based layout. Am very very optimistic about Ajax. Anyone can try meebo, Google Suggest, Google Map, and writely to see Ajax in action. That's correct. The truth though is, most web developers are self-taught. So they know little about the semantics of what is out there and when not to use them. Most web developers have never read one RFC. Yet they claim to be developers. How can you be a developer if you don't know the recommended standard practices in your industry? Virtually 95% of what i know i IT i thought myself, still i always go under the hood, that way learning the technology will be very simple since i know the intricacies of what am dealing with. But at times going under the hood will not give you the desired immediacy you may want. Or does it make sense to go through all the Google Map API to be able to get something done with the API. |
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smartsoft (m)
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why una eyes they chook huh ? Webdesign do this , web design do that..nah wah oooo
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oasis
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Am very very optimistic about Ajax. Nobody said don't use it. Just make sure you test it with older browsers before deployment. That is if you care about people using older browsers being able to use your website. I've created tons of applications myself using ajax. Sometimes that is the only technology possible. Go ahead and try the browser-based chat application on my website. Without ajax, it'd be impossible to update messages without refreshing the chat window. Unfortunately, not all of my users can use the chat app, because their browser doesn't support it. For those people, I've also provided a chat app they can install on their computer. In a few years, most people would have updgraded to better browsers. Then it'd be safe to use ajax to your heart's content. Not too long ago, few people used css. Why? Because of browser incompatibilities. But today, everybody uses css without thinking twice, because most browsers now respect the standards and support css. Am I making any sense to you guys, or you just don't get the point am trying to make? |
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b_e_b_e (f)
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Jumps in the middle of this male bonding and screams MINE IS THE GREATEST! Purrs and walks awayJust kidding! Just wanted to lighten the mood. Each one of you have your own way of doing things within the whole web design skill world, your own perception of what works best, and your own ideas of what looks best (layout). Why carry on so? I say do what you do and flaunt it, but remember that you can ALWAYS learn from someone else  Embrace one another fellas! Walks off the forum floor whistling |
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b_e_b_e (f)
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I just viewed the three sites that were posted by kris, oasis, and mikebuddy. I found that there was one that was calming, one that was busy, and one that was captivating. However, each site had something that caught my eye. Keep up the good work! And the winner is.................  I dare not start nothing  |
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dejiolowe (m)
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And the winner is................. I dare not start nothing u better don't start wahala.
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thelastdon (m)
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@ Deji-Ole, can we go back to the topic please
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dejiolowe (m)
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@thelastdon is deji-ole means deji-lazy or deji-thief? which ever one, please don't bastardize my name. my name is dejiolowe and it is not a nickname or screenname or whatever
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joftech (m)
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This thread will surely be the testbed for Nairaland tech-warfare.
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mikebuddy (m)
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@ jofech..........it's ok i was just kidding. Posted by: b_e_b_e
Insert Quote
I just viewed the three sites that were posted by kris, oasis, and mikebuddy. I found that there was one that was calming, one that was busy, and one that was captivating. However, each site had something that caught my eye. Keep up the good work!
And the winner is................. I dare not start nothing
You can call i think we are all guys.We take corrections. |
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b_e_b_e (f)
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Posted by: mikebuddy You can call i think we are all guys.We take corrections. Just in case some have not grown to such a level, I will just say I commend you all! FYI: I navigated through your site the longest |
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