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enitan2002 (m)
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 i don't know wats happening anymore. my advice is instead of asking someone to clarify so that u can look for loopholes why don't u grab a copy of the Message and find the truth about not just the brain but every other thing that is bothering u. if u ask me this has become an intellectual discussion and i don't think the Message can be understood this way. thanks so much otuwe, i've already rested my case with her. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@otuwe, i don't know wats happening anymore.
my advice is instead of asking someone to clarify so that u can look for loopholes why don't u grab a copy of the Message and find the truth about not just the brain but every other thing that is bothering u. First, I'm not looking for loopholes but rather asking that we all engage in discussing what you guys have been posting publicly on the Forum. Second, the main issue so far discussed - being about the brain - is actully what the 'crossbearers' have been discussing; and that's why I remained within the context of what already has been offered. if u ask me this has become an intellectual discussion and i don't think the Message can be understood this way. Okay, no worries. I wonder again how anyone is supposed to understand anything posted at all if we don't use the proper faculties for doing so? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@enita2002,
I hope you can understand why the enquiries have been popping up? If the question was not involving the brain, we would perhaps have been discussing something else - whatever else has been offered by the 'crossbearers'.
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Aproko (f)
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@ pilgrim.1, i have read through the post and what the crossbearers are trying to say is that the back brain or hind brain is linked to our spirit and that is the part that receives 'spiritual information'. for instance, when your mind tells you to do something or your conscience speaks to you, you actually get the information first in your back brain. this is then transmitted to your frontal brain so that the information which your mind or conscience has received can be processed for your earthly understanding. this usually doesn't take time so if you are not alert, you may not even know the difference. so when this information is received, what do you do with it? you analyse it right? for instance if your mind tells you not to go out, do you just sit at home or somehow you try to find reasons why you should go out? by the time you start to rationalise ideas that should be your mind speaking to you, you start to use your frontal brain or intellect. too much rationalising is what is being referred to as the over cultivation of your intellect which is not good for you. now dont get me wrong; nobody is saying you should not brainstorm, but when you get a warning, that small voice you hardly even heard, do not analyse it and then loose the message cos if you do, you'd only find yourself telling your pals that 'my mind told me to take an umbrella, but you know i just didnt think it could rain, afterall, rainy season has not started', while you are dripping wet. hope you get the gist?  |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Aproko,
I get your gist - and thanks for taking the time to offer some explanation.
The one thing I'm wondering about is whether the analysis for the parts and functions of the brain (as offered by the crossbearers on the Forum) is correct at all. The reason for this is because what has been offered on the thread by them does not help anyone understand what very little that we may know about the brain.
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ricadelide (m)
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The back brain is also physical and spiritual as well.The back-brain is the seat of the spirit,it is through it the spirit make itself known in the gross material world. Bro, you didnt answer my question. How can a matter be spiritual and physical at the same time? Dont they belong to two different realms? i don't know what analogy to use but this one comes close - can something be in the gasceous state and physical state at the same time? what is intrinsic to the back brain that makes it pocess this wonderful ability to be both spiritual and physical; does it have special nerves? what 'intrinsically' gives it this ability over other parts of the brain or even the body? what i mean is - why the hindbrain? or the spirit just happened to choose the hindbrain above other body parts? but then if you say the hindbrain is spiritual in itself then it can't be a product of choice, it has to be intrinsic. i really want you to think about this because it is very fundamental - and that is where the problem begins. The back-brain also know as the cerebellum is connected to what is known as the solar plexus,and it's through this solar plexus the spirit make itself known in pictoral forms which is the being transferred to the back brain only in pictures. the more i listen the more l'm convinced that this is an agglomeration of truths mixed with falsehood from different belief systems. this particular element stems from hinduism - and it is completely unscientific and untrue. the solar plexus (or the coeliac plexus) is a network or junction for autonomic nerves supplying the upper abdominal organs. It doesn't not carry information in the form of pictures, but rather transmits signals such as pain from these organs. As far as i know, there is no connection between the spirit and a network of nerve cells in the abdominal cavity. Then the frontal brain which is in charge of controlling the physical body, the arms, the legs, the eyes, etc then now translate the pictures it can see from the back-brain into physical deeds. Again, not true - except you want to say the abdominal organs are/is the spirit. But the bridge that will allow the normal process to happen has been cut short due to negligence on the human part. what bridge? Due to the over-cultivation of the human intellect(i.e focusing only on material things) it's has now over-developed more than the back-brain, and anything that happens spiritually must have a physical manifestation, and that results to the great differences in their sizes. As far as i know, the differences in size is from embroyonic development; can we then infer that a newborn child has already 'over-cultivated' his intellect whilst still in the womb? here again, you restate your presupposition that the hindbrain is spiritual or is spirit. Do some people then have smaller spirits than others if there are differences in size? and do those who turn to the message then pocess a larger hindbrain than their forebrain or a larger hindbrain compared to others(because they have now learnt to cultivate it)? And you still didnt answer the other questions; The hindbrain comprises the pons, the medulla oblongata and the cerrebellum. Do you know what the functions of these brain parts are? How do the tested scientific functions of these parts of the brain correlate with a spiritual function of 'knowing' things accurately? no matter how you try to say it, the spirit is not part of the brain. Spirit is spirit, flesh is flesh. But still yet the spirit still make impression but the intellect can't undertstand it. Now, reading my replies you might think i don't believe that there is a spirit or that we can learn from our spirits, i do. But the spirit does not directly communicate with the body, nor does it use physical means to attain or disseminate its knowledge - because they belong to two different realms. Like Jesus said 'that which is flesh is flesh (ie physical), that which is spirit is spirit'. And no, the renewed intellect can understand the spirit - that is the function of the mind, to understand. And that is no matter the help being sent from above, majority of human species will never understand the messages.and thats the root of all evil.
Except we human spirits start to learn anew,i.e turning our gaze away from the earthly matters and start to look above.Any spiritual things will still rermain like the book with seven seals. i see a lot of similarity here again to the scriptures (Col 3;1-2), but yet again truth mixed with error. which book with seven seals? revelations? And thst's simply what the GRAIL MESSAGE is all about, it's directed at the human spirits who is willing to drop all that he's learn and accept a new way of thinking. a new way of thinking based on what? falsehood? what is the basis for the message? where did the author recieve his inspiration? I notice you guys always allude to the bible; where does the bible stand in relation to the message ( i mean in terms of importance) "With my Message I now open the Book of Creation for you! The Message clearly shows you the Language of God in Creation, which you must learn to understand so that you can make it completely your own." words of ABD-RU-SHIN author of the GRAIL MESSAGE I really have to wonder which God and which book of creation. I'm guessing its not the one mentioned in the bible though. Anyways, hope i didnt come across too strongly. Cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@ricadelide, Lol. . . you must have been fuming while offering the above!  Go it easy with 'em, bro. |
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ricadelide (m)
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@pilgrim, you caught me! Actually its more like 'irritated'. But i'll modify the post now so i dont come across too strongly and thereby put him off - i just dislike falsehood with passion. cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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But i'll modify the post now so i don't come across too strongly and thereby put him off - i just dislike falsehood with passion.
Lol. . . infact, I over-reached myself earlier this afternoon in another thread - and a Christian brother had to gently chide me. The 'mixtures' sometimes get us fuming, lol, but then we'll just try and be calm with them.  |
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ricadelide (m)
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LOL, thanks. I'll drink 'calm juice' from now on, lol.
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Aproko (f)
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@ pilgrim.1, @ ricadelide,
most of the cross bearers on this forum are not scientist, so you would have to pardon their explanation if it has been poorly structured.
am no scientist myself, but all they are trying to say is that 'spiritual things' are usually communicated through the hind brain. the frontal brain helps us find words for the pictures we see with our minds eye. the point is to make sure you dont rack your brain too much and end up painting the picture another colour. an earthly example - you see a red rose, but at that point, all you are aware of is that plants are green. if a rose is a plant, then why should it be red and not green?, you then go ahead to paint a picture of the rose you saw with your mind's eye, only you paint it green, you sell that masterpiece at an exhibition, and then you travel to a place you've never been and see a red rose, just the way you saw it in your mind's eye!!!
the point is simple, the things of the spirit cannot be rationalised cos when they are, they only lead to more errors and distortions.
i wonder if i make any sense here.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Hi Aproko, I want to believe that you've done very well in one thing - your calmness; and I must say that really impresses me. To be honest with you, let me state that I'm no scientist myself - not by any stretch (even though I may know some science). However, what catches my attention is that the brain has its clear functions. Such functions are not being clearly represented in what we have read so far in this thread. Let me offer you a few illustrations for you to see why I have these concerns:  1. Diagram of parts of the brain The following link helps with outlines as to their functions (perhaps, not in a spiritual/religious sense): What do each of these lobes do? - Frontal Lobe- associated with reasoning, planning, parts of speech, movement, emotions, and problem solving
- Parietal Lobe- associated with movement, orientation, recognition, perception of stimuli
- Occipital Lobe- associated with visual processing
- Temporal Lobe- associated with perception and recognition of auditory stimuli, memory, and speech
( http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/kinser/Structure1.html) Another one that might be helpful: ( http://www.waiting.com/brainanatomy.html#anchor2672516) When you take the time to gather some of the info on those weblinks, you'll see why our concerns continue to be presented in regards to what we've been reading here. Regards. |
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Aproko (f)
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@ pilgrim.1, thanks for that biology lesson, i want to use it to butress my point. the frontal lobe is aids reasoning, planning, parts of speech, e.t. c, the parietal, occipital and temporal lobes actually perform functions that i may term earthly or physical. so what about the cerebellum? what is the function? of course earthly or physical functions you may say. the answer is yes and then again no. of course the cerrebelum has its own earthly functions, but really, it has a link with our spirit in the sense that our spirit communicates to us via the cerebellum. its not like when we die, the cerebellum follows us to heaven, perhaps an example is like having a mobile phone, when you move to an area without network, you either do without a phone or get a compliant sim. so when our flesh dies, the cerebellum 'cannot receive network' so we get another sim. now if you look at that diagram, you would notice that the front lobe is actually bigger in size than the cerebellum. perhaps it has not always been so. but it has become so because more attention is focused on the frontal brain i.e reasoning, planning our lives, all the emotions we deal with, e.t.c, and somehow we have forgotten to develop the back brain as well by listening more to our inner voice, visions, warnings e.t.c. so the Grail Message is not contradictory at all, its probably our interpretations that are contradictory that is why your best bet is to read the book yourself. i hope that helps |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@Aproko, Maybe I should start from down up in my response: so the Grail Message is not contradictory at all, its probably our interpretations that are contradictory that is why your best bet is to read the book yourself. Perhaps the interpretation may be the one thing that is the problem. But then, how do I delve into something that might not be effectively communicated to others? of course the cerrebelum has its own earthly functions, but really, it has a link with our spirit in the sense that our spirit communicates to us via the cerebellum. At least something may have been clarified here, even though others still remain unclear. The one thing made clear now is that the spirit and the backbrain are two very distinct entities in man. That said, I think it would be quite unbalanced to feel that the spirit communicates to man via the cerebellum. The one reason why that could just not be a healthy inference (besides the fact that the cerebellum has its distinct function) is that it makes one think that intelligent people are earthly (judging from the size of one's frontal lobe); and therefore intelligent people care very little for spiritual things. now if you look at that diagram, you would notice that the front lobe is actually bigger in size than the cerebellum. perhaps it has not always been so. but it has become so because more attention is focused on the frontal brain i.e reasoning, planning our lives, all the emotions we deal with, e.t.c, and somehow we have forgotten to develop the back brain as well by listening more to our inner voice, visions, warnings e.t.c. Which leads me to ask: does the backbrain grow in size when a person becomes highly spiritual? |
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Aproko (f)
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@Aproko,
Maybe I should start from down up in my response:
Perhaps the interpretation may be the one thing that is the problem. But then, how do I delve into something that might not be effectively communicated to others?
my dear, let me give you an example, i am very good at literature, but there are some works of shakespeare i have to read on and on to understand. it doesnt mean shakespeare has not been able to communicate effectively, perhaps i'm the one that needs to work extra hard to make sure i get the gist and not loose the message. so it is with the Grail Message, while the message is very clearly put, perhaps a lot of crossbearers have to read it on and on to get the message. sometimes you need a little help from those that understand better than you so that you get the gist easier. its like that everywhere. as good as you may be in biology i'm sure you dont get all the gist in the text book, it is only with time, lecturing and maybe private lessons that you end up knowing enough to even formulate and develop your own biological theories. so instead of blaming the biology text book for being too difficult to understand, just be patient and read it time and time, and biology would become piece of cake right? That said, I think it would be quite unbalanced to feel that the spirit communicates to man via the cerebellum. /quote] why is that? every thought, word, deed must be processed in your brain right? so why should spiritual stuff be different? is it because of the word spiritual? you must receive the spiritual message one way or the other right, whether its your intuition or inner voice, so why cant the cerebellum be useful in communicating those messages to you? its not unbalanced at all, really.
The one reason why that could just not be a healthy inference (besides the fact that the cerebellum has its distinct function) is that it makes one think that intelligent people are earthly (judging from the size of one's frontal lobe); and therefore intelligent people care very little for spiritual things.
but really a lot of intelligent people try to rationalise everything, what the baby would look even before birth, why cant there be a perfect baby? why cant we remove every gene that would make this unborn child gay, what the heck,why cant we just create our own baby? --- the list is endless, this leaves very little time for spiritual things i suppose!!
Which leads me to ask: does the backbrain grow in size when a person becomes highly spiritual?
perhaps we can try getting a picture of the pope's brain to find out this one  but really i suppose the answer should be a yes, or perhaps the front brain would shrink a little |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@Aproko, I haven't made any comments in reply to yours above as I've rather taken your challenge to read (actually, re-read) the Grail Message. Even at that, I'll come back sometime after my 3rd re-reading to come show you how deeply flawed your premise was. Cheers. |
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Aproko (f)
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dearie, you shouldn't read the Grail Message solely to find loopholes!!! you are reading a work that is addressed solely to the spirit, so if you are not earnestly seeking for the truth but loopholes, no point reading it cos then its not addressed to you. anyway, have fun |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Goodness! Why is it that when anyone wants to read the Grail Message, such apologies have to be advertized upfront? If I were reading to look for loopholes, then I'd say that I already have about 103 of them and counting - which I would not have wasted any time at all posting them already. I only offered that what I've read so far and what you've stated are clearly worlds apart! How so - that's what I'd like to come back and share; and that's the reason why I want to re-read it again so that I don't misread either you or the book. Anything wrong with that already? |
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Aproko (f)
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not advertising dear. have fun reading. am not going nowhere. the Grail Message leaves no gaps or loopholes! non absolutely
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otuwe (f)
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Goodness! Why is it that when anyone wants to read the Grail Message, such apologies have to be advertized upfront? If I were reading to look for loopholes, then I'd say that I already have about 103 of them and counting - which I would not have wasted any time at all posting them already. I only offered that what I've read so far and what you've stated are clearly worlds apart! How so - that's what I'd like to come back and share; and that's the reason why I want to re-read it again so that I don't misread either you or the book. Anything wrong with that already? pilgrim dear, its because she knows u too well dat u wud look for where it is written as u read. . otherwise u wont need to read it because you want to post something on nairaland but because you are seeking for the truth. have fun already I only offered that what I've read so far and what you've stated are clearly worlds apart! How so - that's what I'd like to come back and share; and that's the reason why I want to re-read it again so that I don't misread either you or the book. Anything wrong with that already? this is the loopholes she is talking abt already. i like the already u put in each sentence already |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Now-now my dearie-dears. . .Lol. You sound as though I should lay down the book and take a much desired summer-break to the Caribbeans. snag is that summer seems to be passing quickly!this is the loopholes she is talking about already. Infact, by last night I had over 200 of them - started seeking them out deliberately just to rattle Aproko, hehe. But I relax, as I promised that wasn't the reason I took her offer/challenge to read (or re-read) the book. Some interesting things, though. But I'm still trying to understand what the author thought about Redemption in Christ. |
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enitan2002 (m)
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anyone reading the grail message only to find faults therein will find nothing of use to him, but he that reads it with an earnest volition for something higher will surely find more than he's looking for.
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enitan2002 (m)
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@ aproko,
are u a crossbearer? if you are then lets hook up, ok?
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otuwe (f)
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@ aproko,
are u a crossbearer? if you are then lets hook up, ok?
you and this your hooking up with cross bearers. na wa oh. do u want marry a cross bearer very soon no mind me jare pilgrim, its normal to find loopholes in things u r not ready to accept but that doesnt make dat thing wrong cos someone else may pick it up and finds the answers to all His questions in it. so its really about who has the Message but not the Message itself do u get it already |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@enitan2002, Here: why is it always the first thing to come to the minds of Grail Message adherents that anyone reading that book is necessarily looking for loopholes? That kind of reasoning simply tells me that those who profess to be crossbearers are not confident of what they adhere to. How many Christians would you read endlessly advertising such disclaimers about the Bible despite the fact that many people are ever seeking "loopholes" in it? You guys should grow out of this shudder and be more ready to discuss, than hold a tealeaf for supper even before anyone comes knocking. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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pilgrim, its normal to find loopholes in things you're not ready to accept but that doesnt make that thing wrong because someone else may pick it up and finds the answers to all His questions in it. so its really about who has the Message but not the Message itself do u get it already I read your frequency dearie. Problem seems to be always that those who profess to have the Message seem so disconnected from it already that it leaves me scratching my head as to whether it's even worth reading (or re-reading) the book.  |
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enitan2002 (m)
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you and this your hooking up with cross bearers. na wa oh. do u want marry a cross bearer very soon no mind me jare pilgrim, its normal to find loopholes in things you're not ready to accept but that doesnt make that thing wrong because someone else may pick it up and finds the answers to all His questions in it. so its really about who has the Message but not the Message itself do u get it already i didnt mean it that way, what i meant was that i will really like to meet her her (aproko), ok? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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i didnt mean it that way, what i meant was that i will really like to meet her her (aproko), ok?
No mind otuwe - she likes to tease! Lol. |
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enitan2002 (m)
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@ pilgrim No mind otuwe - she likes to tease! Lol. you are really becoming intresting now, whether you agree with the message or not, we might still be best of friends and if fate works wonder we can both walk down the aisle together |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@ pilgrim
you are really becoming intresting now, whether you agree with the message or not, we might still be best of friends and if fate works wonder we can both walk down the aisle together Oh my goodness!!  OTUWE. . . APROKO. . . wey una? At this critical time of need, you my girlfriends just disappear, abi? No worry, I go do una soon! ---- Enitan2002, you be ma guy anyday! |
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enitan2002 (m)
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Oh my goodness!! OTUWE. . . APROKO. . . wey una? At this critical time of need, you my girlfriends just disappear, abi? No worry, I go do una soon! ---- Enitan2002, you be ma guy anyday! are you now ready to be mine?, am on my kneels pleading |
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