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Drusilla (f)
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More Black educators: By the time most of her students reach the 8th grade, they have the reading ability of a freshman in college. Marva Thus, Westside Preparatory School was founded in 1975 in Garfield Park, a Chicago inner-city area. During the first year Marva took in learning disabled, problem children and even one child labeled border-line retarded. At the end of the first year every child scored at least five grades higher proving that the previous labels placed on these children were misguided. Mrs. Collins' success with students labeled as "unteachable" by others led to profiles in Time and Newsweek magazines and television appearances on 60 Minutes and Good Morning America. Her life was the basis for a CBS Special Movie, The Marva Collins Story, with Cicely Tyson and Morgan Freeman. During his presidential term, Ronald Reagan offered her the post of Secretary of Education, but she declined in order to stay with her school. In 1990 Mrs. Collins worked with over thirty public schools in Oklahoma. Harvard University tracked the progress of eight principals, four who accepted the model enthusiastically and four who did not aggressively promote it in their schools. The results after one year were astounding. The four schools who did the work had an average increase on the Iowa Standardized Test of over 172%. One school almost tripled their test scores. The four schools that did not do the work had an increase of only 10%. In 1995, Charles Murray wrote a controversial book called " The Bell Curve ". In the book he mentioned that Marva Collins' work would have no long lasting effects on the children. 60 Minutes ( CBS' TV News show) wanted to find out if this was true. So, they ran a second story showcasing the lives of the first thirty-three students who attended Westside Preparatory School. Statistically, one of the students should have been shot, two in jail and five on welfare. This was not the case. All thirty-three students, now adults, were leading very successful lives with a majority choosing teaching as a profession. http://teacherlink.ed.usu.edu/tlresources/units/champions/MarvaCollins.PDF
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Drusilla (f)
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hmmm, I beg to differ. i don't think the problem is the school, it's the students themselves. Like u know, it's america and slavery has ended and nobody forces anyone to do stuffs they don't want to do. so, u can't force a kid to learn in school if they don't want to. It ain't the schools faults.
Chiogo, Do you believe that if you fail to put out fires, that you can remain a fireman? Do you believe that even if you kept having accidents, that you should still be employed as a Bus Driver? Teachers are the only profession in America that expects to keep their job even if they can not teach.
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Drusilla (f)
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If you go to Mcdonalds and pay your money but don't get your food. It's not Mcdonalds fault?
Why do people only try this insane reasoning for Teachers & Schools?
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Tonim (f)
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Chiogo,
Drusilla is just making up unnecessary excuses for those black kids. If chiogo, a young nigerian girl, can learn from the school, why can't the other black kids learn there ?
Regardless the environment a child is placed in, once the willingness to learn is missing (which is the case here), any other effort aimed at aiding their education would be in vain.
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Drusilla (f)
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Tonim,
I have linked websites and teachers who turned many schools around with the simple idea that black kids could learn.
Those kids home did not get better, they did not get better parents, they did not get rich, Daddy did not marry mom.
The only thing that changed was they recieved teachers who had HIGH EXPECTATIONS and the Black and Hispanic kids excelled in that learning environment.
The facts are so inconvenient to those who think teachers for keep getting paid, even when they can not teach.
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Tonim (f)
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forget about linked websites, i am talking about chiogo's school.
LET'S CONFINE THIS TO CHIOGO'S SCHOOL, PLEASE.
She said the black kids (aa's) there are not interested in learning, you went off quoting the ghetto and teachers.
What do teachers have to do with this ? Chiogo attends the same school and learns fine, why can't the other aa kids learn there like chiogo is ?
Please quit making up excuses. The bottom line is that, the black kids at her school are just not willing to learn. The environment or teacher has nothing to do with this, if chiogo can learn from there, any other black kid should be able to learn from there too.
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Horus (m)
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1. African Americans use crack. Crack was created and produced by the Central Intelligence Agency (C.I.A),to finance war on Nicaragua. This drug was created to kill as much as possible young blacks in the world. Source: http://www.csun.edu/CommunicationStudies/ben/news/cia/
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Drusilla (f)
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forget about linked websites, i am talking about chiogo's school.
She said the black kids (aa's) there are not interested in learning, you went off quoting the ghetto and teachers.
What do teachers have to do with this ? Chiogo attends the same school and learns fine, why can't the other aa kids learn there like chiogo is ?
Please quit making up excuses. The bottom line is that, the black kids at her school are just not willing to learn. The environment or teacher has nothing to do with this, if chiogo can learn from there, any other black kid should be able to learn from there too.
Tonim, I guess if Chiogo says it is so. We should all throw away what Black Professional Administrators and Educators are proving every day by teaching kids in their schools. After all Chiogo thunk it. I wonder why Marva Collins now recieves 300,000 dollars to come in and turn Black schools around, instead of Chiogo.
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BlackMamba (m)
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@Drusilla Your position on the AA cause is the a major contributing factor in the lack of advancement in AA community. This idea of "Us against the System" has stunted AA growth in the US.
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Drusilla (f)
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The bottom line is that, the black kids at her school are just not willing to learn. The environment or teacher has nothing to do with this, Tonim, Let's say Black kids are not willing to learn. Neither the teacher nor the environment is the problem. Why should the currently trained teachers get paid for a job they can not do, no matter whose fault it is? Does fault make it an acceptable situtation? Of course not. Parents still want their kids educated. Assigning blame does not alleviate the devastation of the education system in the Ghetto's. What teachers don't like is that AA parents will accept the blame but want control of the funding & the schools: vouchers, charters, homeschooling, etc.
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Drusilla (f)
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@Drusilla Your position on the AA cause is the a major contributing factor in the lack of advancement in AA community. This idea of "Us against the System has stunted AA growth in the US.
Blackmamba, Your going to have to clarify your statement. Please. The stunted growth in what system? Condileeza Rice, Collin Powell. (poilitics) Oprah Winfrey, Puff Daddy, Jay-Z, (entertainment) Henry Gates, Michael Dyson, (Educators).
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Tonim (f)
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Why should the currently trained teachers get paid for a job they can not do
Chiogo didn't say anything about her teachers not doing their job. Quit changing the issue here. Chiogo said the black aa kids are just not willing to learn, chiogo is black and is doing okay at the same school as these other black kids. If chiogo, a nigerian black girl, goes to this school and is able to learn, what is keeping the other black kids from learning there ? The problem is not with the teachers, if this was the case, then chiogo would be having problems learning at her school. Again, stop making excuses for these kids.
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Drusilla (f)
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Chiogo didn't say anything about her teachers not doing their job. Quit changing the issue here. Chiogo said the black aa kids are just not willing to learn, chiogo is black and is doing okay at the same school as these other black kids.
If chiogo, a nigerian black girl goes to this school and is able to learn, what is keeping the other black kids from learning there ?
The problem is not with the teachers, if this was the case, then chiogo would be having problems learning at her school. Again, stop making excuses for these kids.
Tonim, African American children are not from the third world. Education is not their only avenue of escape as countless rap stars, sports stars, entertainers, etc, jumping out of the Ghetto and landing in rich's keeps proving to them?
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I-man (m)
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Forgot to add, African American women are good in bed
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Drusilla (f)
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Tonim,
Chiogo said AA kids were not willing to learn. So what is the solution? What motivates African American kids to want to learn?
I've posted two AA educators who were able to effect a difference for their students by changing Teachers motivation. A fervent belief in the ability of all children to learn.
We know what doesn't work. The current unwillingness of AA kids to learn in Chiogo's school.
We know what does work. A fervent belief in the ability of all children to learn.
I say, let's do what works.
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Donzman (m)
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1 myth that is actually true is that African Americans do not do well in school and they accept this as normal because they're black. 
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Drusilla (f)
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1 myth that is actually true is that African Americans do not do well in school and they accept this as normal because they're black.  Donzman, Clarify your statement? Who accepts it as normal?
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Donzman (m)
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Donzman,
Clarify your statement? Who accepts it as normal?
Americans like yourself!. . .I never knew blacks were not expected to do well in school just because they're black all my life until I came out here.
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Drusilla (f)
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Americans like yourself!. . .I never knew blacks were not expected to do well in school just because they're black all my life until I came out here.
Donzman, The Bell Curve book was written to show how genetically blacks are intellectually inferior. The author specifically using sub-saharan IQ scores as part of his justification for genetic inferiority of the black brain. ^ Murray lists race differences in brain size, along with "IQ in sub-Saharan Africa, the results of transracial adoption studies, the correlation of the black-white difference with the g-loadedness of tests, regression to racial means across the range of IQ, or other relevant data" among the evidence omitted from the task force report.[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#Notes It was indeed well loved by Americans: Initially, The Bell Curve received a great deal of positive publicity, including cover stories in Newsweek ("the science behind [it] is overwhelmingly mainstream"), early publication (under protest by other writers and editors) by The New Republic by its editor-in-chief at the time Andrew Sullivan, and The New York Times Book Review (which suggested critics disliked its "appeal to sweet reason" and are "inclined to hang the defendants without a trial"). Early articles and editorials appeared in Time, The New York Times ("makes a strong case"), The New York Times Magazine, Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and National Review. It received a respectful airing on such shows as Nightline, the MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, the McLaughlin Group, Think Tank, PrimeTime Live, and All Things Considered. [9] The book sold over 500,000 copies in hardcover. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bell_Curve#ResponsesJust not African Americans.
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Donzman (m)
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Brain size science has been debunked since 1900, why should I pay attention to it?
You have a knack for going off topic, why do Black American students show less enthusiasm towards school compared to white American students?
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Hero (m)
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Here, let me help you out Dru.  1 myth that is actually true is that African Americans do not do well in school and they accept this as normal because they're black.  Americans like yourself!. . .I never knew blacks were not expected to do well in school just because they're black all my life until I came out here. why do Black American students show less enthusiasm towards school compared to white American students? PLEASE watch this movie!! It's about an hour long but very, very educational and truthfully telling of the story of how sadistic the system of the American Slavery institution was, and help one to understand just how the effects of such an humiliating system could in fact be breached into the livelihoods of the descendants of these Africans whom where forced to go through its humiliating elements of degradation. It gives a vivid and insightful picture of just why ((WE)) African-Americans will NEVER, EVER "just forget about the past, and move on", as so many folks not of our ranks keep telling us we should do. NO!! We will keenly keep conscious of our past, and move on with it, as we have always done for decades past. Our history is the glue that bonds us as one!! Without it, we would had been easy targets for those whom wished to succeed in "balkanizing" us into factions for self ruin like what was done to the Afro-Brazilian and other black populations of Latin America. It's a shame how so many Africans have just "forgot about their past" and moved on, only to be living an lacklustre existence today because of that devastating choice imposed upon them by their white conquers. I dread the day that such a thing should ever happen to us African-Americans, for that it has been our remembrance, acknowledgment, respect, and strength of our historical and world renowned past, from the atrocious to the astounding, in which we have always helled on to for strength, insight and determination to, as we say, keep keeping on, in this land in which we were brought to as sickened, starving slaves, yet evolved into a savory statute of American and world society. NOW I present to you: http://knowledgeisthekeyradio.com/gbut/gbut1_player.swfhero, i'm still speechless!  Yes, it's one thing to hear about the atrocities in which we AfAm's ancestors went through and tell us descendants to "just forget about them and move on", but when one actually sees with their own eyes just how the system was literally institutionalized within the social existence of the AfAm population right from the roots as slaves and onward, it's only then that people can begin to see that when we and others state that the way we are, act and function as a people is directly connected to the way we were literally bred to be, they can see and understand how this is so. As the movie shows in such crystal clear form; we were literally bred to be a dysfunctional people. Illicit sexual conduct, leading to fatherless child rearing was driven into our state of being by our white masters of old, all in an effort to bring about ever greater numbers of dysrooted, dysfunctional slaves to build, run and strengthen their economic might with. We were bred like cattle, to be their non-dependent, obedient slaves. Education was eliminated from our grasp by the ever lingering threat of death for man, woman and even child, in which dared to even mention the word, not to mention crack a book or even pick up one for that matter. Therefore to protect ourselves against this lingering threat, we suppressed the importance of education upon our generations, demonized it as an evil to be avoided and more. Many ask why do we AfAm's respect and cater to our mothers so much more than our fathers, well the answer is also found in our roots. As I mentioned, often on the plantations the slaves whom worked it were bred like cattle, men of various types were sent around impregnating various women of various types, so to produce certain desirable types of offspring needed to do certain types of jobs around the plantation, or in which could fetch the owner a hefty price at the auction block. Little regard was given to the want or need for the development of family units, as long as the black "winches" around the plantation kept popping out them strong healthy "Pups" for massa at mass, that's all that mattered, and in this regard the man played little role in the average slave childs life, the women were all that mattered in their lives growing up. They were the undisputed backbone of the plantations. They worked the plantation fields with the kids, ran the big house with the kids, fed them, clothed them, taught them, protected them, disciplined them and more as a community group from the cradle to the grave, of every single person to have ever existed on the plantation, and that includes the whites as well. All the men did was work, work, work, work, work, work, work, sleep, eat, impregnate all the girls, work some more and then die. Some people talk about how many of us often refer to each-other as nigga, well this is no new phenomenon folks, and Nigga is not a word invented by us, but by our white oppressors of old, and over a century upon century upon century, of being referred to, addressed as, and documented with nothing but the title of Niggers or "Nigga" in southern draw, as was often the case, it was only natural that we too, having learnt our ability to speak English from our oppressors whom only referred to us as Niggas, Niggras or Niggers, would also refer to ourselves this way ((Officially)), and just like all the rest of the negative elements pressed upon us in our existence on the plantations, this too carried over into our existence as partial freeman. Remember; the body can be freed alot easier than the mind!! Now I can go on and on with this, but instead of doing that I'll just say this; most of every single functional element in which we AfAm's present to the world, both negative and positive, can be directly traced back to our roots, existent back on the plantations of old. If you want to find out why it is that we do such and such, the answer can be easily found via taking a good investigation into our existence back on the plantations, and the slave coded system they functioned under, back when Cotton was King and 'Tobacca' was Tops.  400 years of hardcore, militaristically implemented, dysfunctional behavior, can not be wholly eradicated from a people within less than 100 years in a state of partial freedom and rights. In all actuality, the distance in which we have come thus far in such a small amount of time, is actually an amazing feat to have achieved. To go from a people of absolute nothingness, near animals in existence, to that of world renowned artist' gollor, prime leaders in the most powerful government on the face of the earth, military as well, inventors of thousands of of some of the worlds most valuable things, world renowned doctorates, and developers of many of the most world renowned popular musics known to man, holders of the world's 9th largest pocket of wealth, worldly acknowledged sporting Juggernaut  , and so much more, all in a span of less than 100 years is astonishing when one stops to really think about it.
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Tonim (f)
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You have a knack for going off topic, why do Black American students show less enthusiasm towards school compared to white American students?
Thanks oo my brother, I'm glad you noticed her knack for going off topic too. Chiogo, a nigerian girl, stated on this thread that she attends a school mostly dominated by latino and african american (aa) students and that she learns well at the school, but the aa students are just not willing to learn. Chiogo never said anything about not having adequate teachers, she never said anything about her teachers not being able to teach or being incompetent, she said she learns fine from the school. Drusilla went and brought all these website links about the ghetto and teachers getting paid for not doing their jobs properly. She has been beating about the bush, going completely off topic rather than sticking to the subject matter. When I pressed drusilla further and asked how is it chiogo is able to learn perfectly well at this school and the aa kids are not willing to learn, this was her response: Tonim,
African American children are not from the third world. Education is not their only avenue of escape as countless rap stars, sports stars, entertainers, etc, jumping out of the Ghetto and landing in rich's keeps proving to them? First, she referenced the ghetto school (or prison prep) syndrome, then it was the teachers' fault for not doing their jobs - not requiring higher expectations from the students. [Chiogo didn't complain about her school being in the ghetto and she didn't see any flaws with her teachers] Now, it's because the aa kids are not from the third world. One excuse after the other.
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Drusilla (f)
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Brain size science has been debunked since 1900, why should I pay attention to it?
You have a knack for going off topic, why do Black American students show less enthusiasm towards school compared to white American students?
Donzman, The book used the IQ of Sub-Saharan Africans. Not the brain size. And it was well loved by Americans. Well recieved. 1994. Blacks don't have less enthusiasm than white students. A comprehensive survey of student attitudes found that black and Latino students were as motivated, studied as hard, and were as serious about graduating as whites. http://www.alternet.org/story/14667/
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Drusilla (f)
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Tonim,
You keep avoiding the obvious point that Chiogo does not know what Black Students want to learn at her school.
Ignore what? Chiogo personal feeling that she as a Nigerian is better than all those Black students around her and knows exactly what they think?
Yeah, let's ignore that. It's tacky.
Who in Nigeria teach's that being a sychophant is a sign of wanting to learn?
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JustGood (m)
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African American children are not from the third world. Education is not their only avenue of escape as countless rap stars, sports stars, entertainers, etc, jumping out of the Ghetto and landing in rich's keeps proving to them? This is the point. They are less interested in education so please let them stay at home and pick up guns to kill themselves as they become successful rappers and athletes. Call us 3rd world or tenth world. we are what we are and that's the way it's going to be. We don't have to be like you. Please keep your mentality to yourselves and please don't erase the very things that make us Nigerians This is one of the reasons I am sceptical about having these black americans labeling themselves as africans. They will eventually throw away(and probably make us do the same) what makes us essentially AFRICAN.
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Horus (m)
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This is the point. They are less interested in education so please let them stay at home and pick up guns to kill themselves as they become successful rappers and athletes.
I cannot believe that a black person is saying that 
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Drusilla (f)
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Hero,
I betcha did that as a kid. Jumped ahead of the whole class. Smile.
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Drusilla (f)
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Justlie,
Your claiming to be African this month, eh?
This aught to be a good yarn. Do tell what makes you African?
What is the essense of Africanness?
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Drusilla (f)
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And we still got to get to the question of why so many people need to believe lies about African Americans and why they teach them.
Hint: IQ of Sub-Saharan Africans.
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JustGood (m)
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I cannot believe that a black person is saying that  Not necessary for you to believe anything
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