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gracious (f)
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based on my understanding all sins shall be forgiven. remember the thief at the cross. he was forgiven. "a broken and a contrite heart, God cannot despise". I believe that the pharisees had sinned against the Spirit because they were hardened. They refused to receive Jesus as the messiah. therefore I would take it that every unbeliever has sinned against the HOlyspirit if he dies in doubt and unbelief. If he refuses to accept the finished work of calvary. but as long as a person is alive and open to God for cleansing of sin, I believe he cannot sin against the Holyspirit . but however a believer can grieve the Holyspirit . when we become bornagain the Holyspirit comes and lives in us. we could grieve him through sexual sin, lies etc. but there is always room for forgiveness and restoration.
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bari_kade
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Hi gracious, based on my understanding all sins shall be forgiven. remember the thief at the cross. he was forgiven. "a broken and a contrite heart, God cannot despise". The sins of those thieves on the cross were not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Indeed, they stole ( any wonder why they were called thieves?); they also reviled Jesus on the Cross (Mark 15:32); but nowhere is it recorded that they blasphemed against the Holy Ghost. I believe that the pharisees had sinned against the Spirit because they were hardened. They refused to receive Jesus as the messiah. Specifically, the Bible states their sin: "Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit" (Mark 3:30). Accounting the Holy Spirit as an unclean spirit constituted their blasphemy against Him. Not every sin is considered a blasphemy against the Spirit; and I've tried to outline some of the common sins against Him. I think the confusion about this subject would be greatly minimized when we can understand this point. therefore I would take it that every unbeliever has sinned against the HOlyspirit if he dies in doubt and unbelief. If he refuses to accept the finished work of calvary. I'll agree with you, but need to add this: even when a person is alive and grieves the Holy Spirit by refusing to respond to His gracious convictions or leading, such a sin (serious as it is) is not to be misconstrued as blasphemy against Him. but as long as a person is alive and open to God for cleansing of sin, I believe he cannot sin against the Holyspirit . No one is automatically immune to committing the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. The warning is strong enough to make us aware of its implications. Here, the apostle Paul's admonition might be quite helpful: 1 Cor. 10:12 - "Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall." but however a believer can grieve the Holyspirit . when we become bornagain the Holyspirit comes and lives in us. we could grieve him through sexual sin, lies etc. but there is always room for forgiveness and restoration. God bless. |
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bari_kade
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Hi monshege and ganjaih, bari_kade,
first and foremost, i applaud you on your patience in answering the questions being thrown at you even when its obvious some people are seeking for a way to trap you into a religious argument. in any case, to those willing to learn/understand, there is sin against God, against Jesus and against the Holy spirit. some of the fears you have as sin may just be sin against God and Jesus which is recorded as forgivable. to understand the blasphemy against the Holy spirit, you have to first go back to the basic and understand who the Holy spirit is, as someone already asked. you should be worried about those kind of sins and how you can fall into them instead of trying to find a way to turn the words written in the bible I deeply appreciate your balanced insight and good pointers with the call for us to try and rediscover who the Holy Spirit is in Himself. I believe this will help progress this discussion and provide concrete answers to so many other questions some might have on this topic. God's blessings. |
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richie-x (m)
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Let's just say that the Hol spirit is the soft part of God and HE DOESN'T JOKE WITH IT
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richie-x (m)
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Let's just say that the Hol spirit is the soft part of God and HE DOESN'T JOKE WITH IT
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bari_kade
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Let's just say that the Hol spirit is the soft part of God and HE DOESN'T JOKE WITH IT
Lol, how did you come to that conclusion? |
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Aproko (f)
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bari_kade,
i did read your post and my opinion has not changed, we have no way of knowing that he wasn't referring to the holy spirit, there is nothing in the context of those verses that point to the blasphemy against jesus or the holy spirit., he was before a blasphemer i still stand by my words that saying that blasphemy was against jesus is a safe assumption. or that he caused people to blasphem, again he didn't say against who, so that still is a safe assumption to me.
maybe i should repeat my question, who is the holy spirit?
and believe me, from all that has been said so far, i still don't understand the concept of blasphemy against the holy spirit, since it is different from a sin against him. please forgive my lack of understanding and kindly put it in simple terms and then bible verses. thanks for the patience.
@monshege,
no religious arguments intended, just curious minds on the forum asking questions.
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OlowoTee (f)
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@Topic
It is the refusal to yeild to the Spirit's call to repentance, either before death or rapture. Such an act is Unpardonnable and the concerned person will have to face the consequence of eternal damnation in hell.
Also when a once professed Christian backslides and gets into a state of Apostasy. It's a state of 'No return'
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Aproko (f)
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@TopicIt is the refusal to yeild to the Spirit's call to repentance either before death or rapture. Such an act is Unpardonnable and the concerned person will have to face the consequence of eternal damnation in hell. No forgiveness in the grave.
Also when a once professed Christian backslides and gets into a state of Apostasy. It's a state of 'No return'
not everybody in this world is a christain you know. there are still traditionalist, atheist, satanist e.t.c so how do people that do not believe in this spirit identify the spirit when it calls? or are you implying that only those that have come across the bible have a fair chance of heaven? |
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bari_kade
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@Aproko, i did read your post and my opinion has not changed, we have no way of knowing that he wasn't referring to the holy spirit, there is nothing in the context of those verses that point to the blasphemy against jesus or the holy spirit., he was before a blasphemer i still stand by my words that saying that blasphemy was against jesus is a safe assumption. or that he caused people to blasphem, again he didn't say against who, so that still is a safe assumption to me. Okay. Then you would have to either explain the contexts of ALL the verses that have been proffered in explaining Paul's testimony; or simply for argument sake pretend they are not there. maybe i should repeat my question, who is the holy spirit?
and believe me, from all that has been said so far, i still don't understand the concept of blasphemy against the holy spirit, since it is different from a sin against him. please forgive my lack of understanding and kindly put it in simple terms and then bible verses. thanks for the patience. I do appreciate the questions. In simple terms: #1. sins against the Holy Spirit (not same as blasphemy): lying to Him (Acts 5:3) resisting Him (Acts 7:51) despising Him (Heb. 10:29) #2. Believers and unbelievers sin against the Holy Spirit - and they can be forgiven when and if they repent; but not in the case of blasphemy. #3. Specifically, blasphemy against the Holy Ghost is to pronounce Him as an unclean spirit. This is a deliberate act: " Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit" (Mark 3:30). #4. Can blasphemers against the Holy Ghost be forgiven at any time? Jesus' warning is a categorical NO! Mark 3:29 - "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." #5. Is there a difference between blaspheming Jesus (as Son of Man) and blaspheming the Holy Spirit? Answer: any sin against God is a serious matter: but the blasphemy againt the Son of Man may be forgiven if the guilty one repents: Matt. 12:32 -- "And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." If there are more questions, I'll be glad to consider them, even though I don't know much. Blessings.  |
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mekoyo (m)
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The BIBLE clearly states donot grieve the HOLYGHOST.
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OlowoTee (f)
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not everybody in this world is a christain you know. there are still traditionalist, atheist, satanist e.t.c so how do people that do not believe in this spirit identify the spirit when it calls? or are you implying that only those that have come across the bible have a fair chance of heaven?
that's true, i quite agree that not everyone is a christian. But, your question is as good as asking how do Primary One pupil understand abstract algebra? It's damn too difficult for them. They are far too low to understand the concept. Likewise with the group of people you mention, it will take divine intervention from God to bring them up to limelight. The Bible says that it takes the spiritual to understand the things of the Spirit. They are not children of the Light, because their ways are different from Jesus died to take away the sins of the whole world e.g the atheist, satanist, gamblers, idolaters etc. Therefore, to such individuals they need to do first thing first, Acknowledge themselves as sinners, Confess their sins and ask God for forgiveness, Then, they become new creatures and start living in the Spirit. Christ has already paid the price for their salvation, it's left for them to accept or not. By implication, Heaven is only meant for those who have accepted Christ Jesus as their Lord and personal Saviour. "Father, I desire that they also whom you gave me may be with me where i am, that they may behold my glory which you have given me; for you loved me before the foundation of the world" John 17:24. NKJ."In my father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, i would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you." John 14:3. NKJ |
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charka
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AS LONG AS YOU HAVENT COME TO A RECOGNITION OF WHO THE HOLY SPIRIT IS, YOU WILL JUST END UP DECEIVING YOURSELVES WITH ONE BIBLE QUOTE OR ANOTHER.
READ MY LAST POST AND YOU would GET what I MEAN
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Aproko (f)
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@ bari_kade,
thanks for the simple english, i actually feel much better.
now i have another question. is there anybody that has been found guilty of blasphemy in the bible? and if blasphemy is pronouncing the holy spirit as unclean, is it really possible to blasphem?
@ olowo tee,
you havent answered my question. is heaven only for those that have come across the bible? are you implying that those in remote areas that can barely read are doomed?
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mekoyo (m)
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now i have another question. is there anybody that has been found guilty of blasphemy in the bible? and if blasphemy is pronouncing the holy spirit as unclean, is it really possible to blasphem? Yes it is possible that is why we need to be careful with our words. There are people that have grieved the holyspirit in the bible. I give you some of them later. |
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bari_kade
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@Aproko, thanks for the simple english, i actually feel much better. God bless you. now i have another question. is there anybody that has been found guilty of blasphemy in the bible? and if blasphemy is pronouncing the holy spirit as unclean, is it really possible to blasphem? To both questions, I would point to Mark 3:22-30, quoted here in relevant verses: (22) And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. (23) And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? (24) And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. (28 ) Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: (29) But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: (30) Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. From this narrative, tow things would come to mind: (a) it is arguable whether or not these people had sealed their doom. The reason I say so is because a lot of people argue back and forth on the subject. But my persuasion is this: this very set of scribes, having carefully studied the Word, came to the conclusion that the Spirit by which Jesus wrought miracles was not the Holy Spirit, but an unclean spirit! For me, in the context of Jesus warning, they had committed this grievious sin. ( But please not: not all the scribes were guilty of this: just this group which came down from Jerusalem). (b) what exactly did they pronounce to have fallen into this very serious sin of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? Let's look at them again: they had called the Holy Spirit names such as " Beelzebub" and " the prince of the devils" (vs. 22)! It was this very unfortunate sin that that occasioned the warning the Lord gave in the subsequent verses. That they had fallen so grievously is indicated in vs. 30: " Because they said. . ." - that's it: it was because this was what they did that the specific case of blasphemy sealed their case. How could a "scribe" (who was supposed to know the Word) come away pronouncing the Holy Spirit as an unclean spirit? But does one really need to know the Bible before they blaspheme against the Holy Ghost? I don't think so. The NT was not even written when Jesus made the statement we read in the Gospels in this case. However, if something about God's Spirit has been demonstrated before someone, and he comes away pronouncing that demonstration as the work of "demons", "an unclean spirit" or even of "the prince of demons", they are actually falling into this grievous sin. I hope this also answers the question of if it is possible to blaspheme? I pray not one of us falls into that sin! It only would be a warning to all to be careful what they say! you havent answered my question. is heaven only for those that have come across the bible? are you implying that those in remote areas that can barely read are doomed? Would Romans 2:12 help here? "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law." What then? Romans 2:7-10 -- "To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile." |
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abilityman (m)
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Since against the Holy spirit has been misconstrued over the years. The Holy Spirit is the justice of the creator. The Bible says that whatever a man soweth, thou shall he reap.
therefore when u sin, despite ur repentance, you will still reap the fruit of ur labour though the magnitude might be less. This is on one hand.
On another hand, there comes a time when u keep on indulging in sin without remourse and ur concience is subdued, hence it does not seem like sin any more. That is another aspect of it.
cheers
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OlowoTee (f)
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Oops!
The answer to your question can be found in the book of Romans 2:14-16. Find time to read through the whole chapter.
The Scripture says that for as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law.
I wouldn't know if i've answered your question now.
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yemo (m)
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Today, I am now saved, and I now know better.
But tell me, Am I forgiven of those sins against the Holy Spirit? lets get something clear, most if not all Paul's writing are to Christians and Paul collaborating Jesus Christ called the sin against the holy spirit "the sin unto death" who is the Holy Spirit? The Holy Spirit is the the third personality of the God Head, He is the representative of Jesus Christ on earth. when Jesus was leaving He said the Holy Spirit would bring glory to Him and so the work of the Holy Spirit is to reveal more of Christ to us. among other things the Holy Spirit is our friend, comforter. before we do anything we are suppose to check with him. who is capable of sinning against the Holy Spirit? an unbeliever who doesn't know Christ talk less of the holy Spirit, a baby Christian who is still learning the rope?] or a mature christian who as seen the holy spirit at work and whom the holy spirit has even used to bring souls to Christ, who is well grounded in the Bible w hat is the sin unto death at one time or another we(Christians) have all sinned against the Holy Spirit. a pastor who lost a wife to cancer accused God of not been true to His Word and promised not to serve Christ again. but after sometime he repented. though he has sin(the Bible says it is lawful for us to get angry but we shouldnt let the sun sets on our anger) but that is not sin unto death the sin unto death is to willfully and deliberately deny Christ over a long period of time(consistently) and after repetitive warning from God by whom? by somebody who has tasted of the richness of the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, who has tasted of the Sweetness of God and who has experienced the grace and mercy of God over his/her life. thus an unbeliever or baby Christian cannot sin against the Holy Spirit because they are yet to know who He is. so it is not something to be overtly bothered about. we don't have to be obsessed with it. |
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saints_1 (m)
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Hmmm,After review,Am so glad that a topic like this has being raused and thanks for the answers so far.
Nevertheless i will lov to ask these questions;
1.What really is the Holy Spirit.
2.What are types or examples of sin that would make me condem for life.(Types)
Thanks and God Bless,Let them keep coming.
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bari_kade
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@yemo, Thanks for making the added points. However, there's a little fine-tunning I'D like you to consider in yours: thus an unbeliever or baby Christian cannot sin against the Holy Spirit because they are yet to know who He is. From the various verses in the Bible delineating the various sins against the Holy Spirit, it is quite possible that even believers can sin against Him - whether or not such believers are baby Christians or otherwise. The need to carefully distinguish between the various sins cannot be over-emphasized. Following the question raised again by saints_1, here are a few of those sins against the Spirit of God: Paul's warning in Eph. 4:30 to not grieve the Holy Spirit is for all believers, rather than merely to baby Christians. When believers yield to the lust flesh and walk contrary to the Holy Spirit, they are sinning against Him (girl. 5:16-21). Infact, reading the verses inbetween reveals other sins that are serious enough against the Holy Spirit: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, . . . and such like. Believers ( baby or mature) can also resist the Holy Spirit when they on occasions when they do not yield to His leading (Acts 7:51). All of these various sins do not compare to that which is called the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost (Mark 3:29). It is this very sin that the Lord Jesus warned against with the serious appendage that there is no forgiveness in this regard. I hope by now we would try to not mix them up; for as long as people fail to carefully delineate issues, the confusion will go on endlessly. |
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adeniyidru (m)
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thanks to that fellow who asked and posted this question. My own opinion is that,as human begins- we all have sinned and come short of, so all we need to do is continue seeking God's grace and mercy 4 forgiveness concerning all our atrocities,as no one knows what the criteria for judgment day will be.
can some-one help me out please. i need the break down examples of those sins,what type of sins do we refer to--as in this topic --sinning against the holy spirit looks like e.g is it stealing?,mocking people praying in tongues? etc. thanks God bless.
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4get_me (m)
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Please, guys. Una no dey look before asking questions?  @adeniyidru, I think your questions have been answered in most of bari_kade's and naijacutee's posts. Just look at the post above yours for example. I have also benefitted so much in my quiet reading of this topic. |
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naijacutee (f)
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@ Grouppoint. Going back to your question, "If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature. Behold, old things have passed away and all things have become new."
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redsun (m)
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All this sin concept is just is one of the greatest trick used by white man to blindfold a typical blackman.There is no sin,the only sin you have is your conscience,do things right you feel good,do it wrong,you feel bad,just like what we are suffering in africa today,we are not getting the point,you get what you give.Be god's friend and don't be afraid of him.
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stimulus (m)
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@redsun, There is no sin,the only sin you have is your conscience, I hope all's well with you? On the one hand you said there's no sin; and then immediately following that you admit the only sin. Was that supposed to be a manifestation of the dregs that you haven't gotten over yet from the "white-man-this-and-that"? Dude, make una forget this embarrassing black racist theories. They have never carried us anywhere. God welcomes everyone, irrespective of skin colour; and the sooner we understand that, the better it would be for body and soul.  |
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Aproko (f)
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Hmmm,After review,Am so glad that a topic like this has being raused and thanks for the answers so far.
Nevertheless i will lov to ask these questions;
1.What really is the Holy Spirit.
2.What are types or examples of sin that would make me condem for life.(Types)
Thanks and God Bless,Let them keep coming.
my own little understanding of this topc and questions alike 1. what is really the holy spirit?the holy spirit is a part of the Almighty, and is the arm of justice, while jesus christ is the arm of love. the activities of the holy spirit are manifested in the immutable laws that govern creation. a transgression against these laws amounts to a sin against the holy spirit which cannot be forgiven because it must be expiated or redeemed or atoned for. hence the words of the bible that sin against God and the son of God can be forgiven, but not blasphemy against the holy ghost (mathew 12:31-32, Mark 3:29) the work of the holy spirit lies in the incorruptible laws of creation. these laws includes the law of sowing and reaping, the law of balance, the law of cycle, the law of gravity, the law of attraction of homogenious species. 2. what are the types and examples of sin that would make me condemned for life?from the above, the answer to this question is simple. going against these laws that governs creation is synonymous with blasphemy against the holy spirit, thus you must atone for your sins, the arm of justice will surely catch up with you. before i go on to explain these laws, it will interest you to know that if in future a person heeds and obeys the laws that governs creation/the laws of the holy spirit instead of opposing them, the Grace of God which rest in these laws will always be with him. now for the laws that govern creation/laws of the holy spirit, i will go on to take them one at a time starting with the law of balance. when i return (have to go now). |
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yemo (m)
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at one time or another we(Christians) have all sinned against the Holy Spirit thus an unbeliever or baby Christian cannot sin against the Holy Spirit because they are yet to know who He is. @bari-kade what i meant is that an unbeliever/baby Christian can not commit the sin unto death an unbeliever can mock the holy Spirit out of ignorance but once he/she accepts Christ he/she is forgiven likewise baby Christian can deny Christ because of persecution/temptation but once they repented they are forgiven. one of the instances of the word impossible in the bible is in Hebrews 6:4-6 for it is impossible for those who are once enlightened(accepted himself as a sinner and see the need for a Saviour) and have tasted of the heavenly gift(received Jesus as his Saviour) and were made partakers of the HOLY GHOST(been baptized in the Holy Spirit), If they shall fall away to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify the Son of God again afresh and put him to open shame. from Paul's writing to the Christian Jews above we can see that only those who had some degree of spiritual growth and who seriously understand the seriousness of denying Christ that could be guilty of sining the sin unto deathand there is no need of praying for them they are lost forever |
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femi_mat (m)
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hi all, i don't think it is a wise idea we shld be discussing issues like this on this forum, well its a personal thot  it may lead some others to sin against the Holy spirit. the things of God are hard finding out except God reveals it. i pray He leads and guides us. cheers |
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chatykrew (m)
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Hi all oluchi asked a very sensitive question. Sinning against the Holy Spirit. My answer is simply girl 5:16 - Walking in the Spirit by faith, He (the Spirit) - who spoke through Jesus Christ that sining against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven - will keep all those that are sealed with Him for the day of redemption from sining against him. So my simple answer is not questioning why some forgiveness and another no forgiveness but WALK IN THE SPIRIT BY FAITH AND YOU SHALL NOT FULFILL THE DESIRE OF THE FLESH - one of which is blaspheming the Holy Spirit of God (most heinous, i tremble at considering it, thank God for the need to walk in the Spirit Amen) Lets trust the Spirit to walk by faith in the Spirit. |
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stimulus (m)
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Hi @chatykrew, My answer is simply girl 5:16 - Walking in the Spirit by faith, He (the Spirit) - who spoke through Jesus Christ that sining against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven - will keep all those that are sealed with Him for the day of redemption from sining against him. If you go by what Jesus Christ Himself stated, you'll find that sinning against the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit - they are two different things; and that is what bari_kade has repeatedly been calling attention to! Jesus did not say that anyone who sins against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven. He did not state it so. Please read Mark 3:29 again: "But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation." Believers are capable of grieving the Holy Spirit when they do not yield to His leading (Eph. 4:30); and believers sometimes find themselves falling into several of the sins outlined in girl. 5:16-21. But are they all the same thing as BLASPHEMING the Holy Ghost? I think many people often miss the point by confusing this issue - and that is why the restlessness in many hearts. I'm certainly not advocating that we should sin against the Holy Spirit merely because sinning is distinct from blaspheming. I'm certainly not making any excuses for any sin at all. But confusing this issue is getting us nowhere. Good people, make unu hear the Word: if you're a believer, rest your heart on His precious promise - for Jude 1:24 says that He "is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"! |
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bari_kade
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@stimulus, If you go by what Jesus Christ Himself stated, you'll find that sinning against the Holy Spirit is not the same thing as blaspheming against the Holy Spirit - they are two different things; and that is what bari_kade has repeatedly been calling attention to! I appreciate your reference to what I've repeatedly tried to share. Maybe some are not seeing it; but there again, I'm thankful to God that I'm not the authority on this or any other subject. Everyone has concerns; and perhaps my answers are not actually addressing their deepest needs - that is why they will continue to ask questions; and more knowledgeable folks will help us out. Thank God for such folks. ------ @Aproko, Appreciate your input as well. See? Answers are not the monopoly of any one man! That is why yours are a blessing in measure to me. ------ @topic, More thoughts of the Person and Work of the Holy Spirit. . . anyone, please? God bless. |
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