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davidylan (m)
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Nigeria's foreign debt started with the first two loans of $1.75bn taken by the OBJ administration in 1978. However the bulk of our loans was accumulated by the Shagari regime which not only completely ran down our foreign reserve estimated at about $3bn but took out 59 foreign loans! the highest by any regime so far. Babangida compounded the problem by taking yet more loans, mismanaging them and his evil idea of rescheduling.
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Iyke-D (m)
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@Davidlan Nigeria's foreign debt started with the first two loans of $1.75bn taken by the OBJ administration in 1978. However the bulk of our loans
was accumulated by the Shagari regime which not only completely ran down our foreign reserve estimated at about $3bn but took out 59
foreign loans! the highest by any regime so far. Babangida compounded the problem by taking yet more loans, mismanaging them and his
evil idea of rescheduling.
I hope what you said above is factual - I wouldn't want you to disappoint some fellow Nigerians who holds Obasanjo responsible for every single thing wrong with the country. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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thanks for the link GNature, at least that clearly debunks the '8% interest till 2004' theory.
 No probs bros.  Not sure what this is about, and the estimate indicated is a balanced one based on OBJ's borrowing that covered official Bilateral (Paris club/ non-Paris), Multilateral, Private (e.g Promissory notes, Banks-London club). They were different interest rate regimes applied, some lower and some higher than 8%. A weighted average of 8% was used to indicate the impact, not absolute value. GNature, my source for the figures is the Federal Ministry of Finance, Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN), Annual Report 1988, p. 22. Methinks this is more authentic than your 'foreign' news sources, but again, you may beg to differ. As additional information, yes Shagari ($9 billion: 1981- 1982) and IBB ($6 billion) were larger loans, but that does not exonerate OBJ (I, unlike some of you, do not defend one profligacy against another). |
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GNature (m)
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According to New start Nigeria, Shagari's govt took out more loans than any other govt. (The figures below does not include money we use to owe Italy and the IMF and others). Shagari 852.3 England 470.84 England 70.65 England 287.88 England 164 England 862 Japan 246 USA 11 USA 32 USA 58 USA 58 USA Total $3.112.67 Billion Buhari 16.26 England 68.67 England 12 USA 4 USA 12 USA Total $ 112.93 million Babangida 9.08 England 19.6 England 47 Germany 54.8 Germany 426 Japan 271 Japan Total $827.48 million |
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Ugwumba (m)
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According to New start Nigeria, Shagari's govt took out more loans than any other govt. (The figures below does not include money we use to owe Italy). Shagari AND? So how does this exonerate OBJ from the cycle of profligacy he initiated? It may be interesting to note that Nigeria's GDP growth, started its slump in 1977, dropping frlm 6% in 1977 to -5.8% in 1978 (World bank, 1999). Somebody was clearly responsible for this. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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@ Iyke-D some people will not be satisfied unless things are carried out exactly as they feel it should in their minds  even in the US when mob bosses were being prosecuted, small fish were usually prosecuted first, building up experience and skills along the way before the big boss himself could be taken down.If Obj can be proven in court to be corrupt, the best way to go IMO is to prosecute the governors who were supposedly his partners in crime. experience gained by their prosecution will lead to a better hold in Obj's case if it ever comes to that. Hmmm, escapism has many disciples. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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@Davidlan
I hope what you said above is factual - I wouldn't want you to disappoint some fellow Nigerians who holds Obasanjo
responsible for every single thing wrong with the country.
What he said, does not contradict my premise. OBJ started the cycle, Shagari and IBB mastered it. The progenitor, in my books, cannot be exonerated. Where una dey? Doing research abi una don tire?  I dey wait!!! |
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debosky (m)
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by simply borrowing he started the problem? that doesn't strike me as thorough examination of the issues
is the mere fact that he took the loans the cause of the debt burden or its utilisation and the appropriate pay back of the loans as and when due?
were his borrowings profilgate or judicious? were the loans used for the purposes described and were benefits apparent?
those are the issues, simply because he borrowed, others borrowed after him and were wasteful is not enough reason to conclude he was the 'progenitor' of the debt issue, that is a lazy and blame apportioning reasoning to me.
you cannot just make blanket accusations because of your dislike for the man, please give the concrete proof to back up your claims
was the GDP slump in '77 tied to Obasanjo himself or an oil price crash or other economic activity?
we need more in depth anayses than these 'in '99 it was x, now in 2007 it is y' arguments.
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GNature (m)
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Your numbers are not adding up. Here you claim that obj's 1977 $2 billion loan added up to $15.98 billion by 2004
Might I be so 'clever by whole' as to point out that $2 billion borrowed in 1977 at an interest rate of 8% would amount to $15.98billion by 2004.
While here you assert that Shagari took out $9 billion and IBB $6 billion
As additional information, yes Shagari ($9 billion: 1981- 1982) and IBB ($6 billion) were larger loans,[b]
Thus, 15.98 + 9 + 6 = $30.98 billion If obj's loans rose from 2 billion to 15.98 billion in 2004 (according to you), what about the loans taken out by Shagari and IBB ? They were definately not interest free loans. If you add the interest of Shagari and IBB's loans, we would be way over the $35 billion debt figure. This is the reason why I asked you for a link of your source of information, because your numbers are not adding up. |
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MILITIA (f)
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What he said, does not contradict my premise. OBJ started the cycle, Shagari and IBB mastered it. The progenitor, in my books, cannot be exonerated. Where una dey? Doing research abi una don tire? I dey wait!!! Oh no! They forgot their baba! They have brought all the great books to cover up some shit and expect us to swallow it like they have done! Bring out more quotes, links and onitsha and Idumota library materials to back up your facts! This group of argumentators are never tired of research oh! Awon Debosky, denex, Iyke-D, GNature and some mushroom arguementators in their shadows! Please can you dig up the Swiss account statistics of money hidden by all these kingpins and let us know you can really research! I also need court transcripts of Andy Uba's trial here in America naming OBJ as one of his benefactors! Rubbish research! |
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MILITIA (f)
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Hmmm, escapism has many disciples.
GBAM! Nothing to add, nothing to subtract! I rest my case!  Make una carry go! I don tire for this dead end topic!  |
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debosky (m)
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waka comot Militia! all you bring is conjecture and wild speculation, it is very easy to make accusations but tough to back them up with facts
that method of idumota reasoning/ underbridge debating may work for you, but I prefer to deal with facts. call it escapism or whatever
but if you refuse to analyse issues indepth but come to conclusions on the fly based on your pre-determined notions and peripheral observation, we have nothing to discuss.
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davidylan (m)
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OBJ left in 1979. nigeria's GDP growth rate per annum was 12.1% in 1980, by 1989 it had "risen" to a stupendous
-1.5%!
this must all have been OBJ's fault.
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MILITIA (f)
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Over to you oh Ugwumba! I think Bros Debosky likes your method better with big big oyinbo, speeches and long cooked up stats and shits! Goodluck! All I can say is have some Tylenol or Panadol Xtra strength before you go to bed! I will be checking up on you to make sure you are still alive and well! Ciao! Let me take my conjecturing and wildly speculatory arse about Nairaland for some fun before I hit the club tonight! Igweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!Peace out! |
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Ugwumba (m)
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by simply borrowing he started the problem? that doesn't strike me as thorough examination of the issues
is the mere fact that he took the loans the cause of the debt burden or its utilisation and the appropriate pay back of the loans as and when due?
were his borrowings profilgate or judicious? were the loans used for the purposes described and were benefits apparent?
I refer you to my earlier quote. 5. Obasanjo also departed from the tradition of borrowing from multilateral/bilateral institutions to sourcing loans from the international capital market. It was at this point Nigeria laid herself open to the possibility of external debt peonage. This was because the jumbo loan had higher and variable interest as well as shorter maturity date and repayment periodOBJ started us off on the path of 'jumbo' loans at higher and variable interest rates (and in doing this personally enriched himself and his cronies, while impoverishing us.you cannot just make blanket accusations because of your dislike for the man, please give the concrete proof to back up your claims
I do not dislike anyone, as much as I dislike all the crooks that have passed as our leaders. Unlike you, I do not engage in hair-splitting. You infer IBB is a crook (I agree), but he has not been convicted. I infer they are all crooks, and the only proof I have are the following (collateral proof). 1. They all borrowed huge sums of money, and the estimated valuation of the projects they carried out was substantially below the borrowed sums. 2. They all left office much richer than they came in (OBJ -twice) and their wealth cannot be tied to their approved earnings over their careers. 3. They all claim (as ridiculously as Atiku), that their investments paid off ridiculously handsomely. 4. They all refuse to state publicly what they are worth, hiding behind the aprons of constitutionality for a purely 'public interest' matter. was the GDP slump in '77 tied to Obasanjo himself or an oil price crash or other economic activity?
we need more in depth anayses than these 'in '99 it was x, now in 2007 it is y' arguments.
Oil prices started a slump in 1973/74 but by 1977/78 (lowest - $33/ barrel Bonny light crude) were on the rise, peaking to just under $70 during the Iran/Iraq war. In comparison, during the 1985-1999 period (including the first Gulf war), the maximum was under $30/ bbl Bonny light. Prices again started their peaking after 1999. OBJ has always served in a high oil price (read, revenue) environment. So, the sharp drop in GDP growth had NOTHING to do with oil prices. Read my lips, profligacy and a culture of borrowing to build grandiose structures, with no supporting infrastructure, are the at the root of any country's difficulties in development. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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Your numbers are not adding up.
Here you claim that obj's 1977 $2 billion loan added up to $15.98 billion by 2004
While here you assert that Shagari took out $9 billion and IBB $6 billion
Thus, 15.98 + 9 + 6 = $30.98 billion
If obj's loans rose from 2 billion to 15.98 billion in 2004 (according to you), what about the loans taken out by Shagari and IBB ? They were definately not interest free loans.
If you add the interest of Shagari and IBB's loans, we would be way over the $35 billion debt figure. This is the reason why I asked you for a link of your source of information, because your numbers are not adding up.
@ GNature, the way you have used these numbers is laughable, to say the least. Yes, if the interest for IBB & Shagari's loans were added, we would be well above $35 billion - but we were at ALL times servicing some portion of the debts using different instruments. By 1988 (most borrowing done by then), our debt profile stood at $29.282 billion - made up of new of loans, unpaid interest and unpaid principal from existing loans. Your math misses the repayments (should be subtracted). |
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MILITIA (f)
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I do not dislike anyone, as much as I dislike all the crooks that have passed as our leaders. Unlike you, I do not engage in hair-splitting.
You infer IBB is a crook (I agree), but he has not been convicted. I infer they are all crooks, and the only proof I have are the following (collateral proof).
1. They all borrowed huge sums of money, and the estimated valuation of the projects they carried out was substantially below the borrowed sums.
2. They all left office much richer than they came in (OBJ -twice) and their wealth cannot be tied to their approved earnings over their careers.
3. They all claim (as ridiculously as Atiku), that their investments paid off ridiculously handsomely.
4. They all refuse to state publicly what they are worth, hiding behind the aprons of constitutionality for a purely 'public interest' matter.
Oil prices started a slump in 1973/74 but by 1977/78 (lowest - $33/ barrel Bonny light crude) were on the rise, peaking to just under $70 during the Iran/Iraq war.
In comparison, during the 1985-1999 period (including the first Gulf war), the maximum was under $30/ bbl Bonny light.
Prices again started their peaking after 1999.
OBJ has always served in a high oil price (read, revenue) environment.
So, the sharp drop in GDP growth had NOTHING to do with oil prices.
Read my lips, profligacy and a culture of borrowing to build grandiose structures, with no supporting infrastructure, are the at the root of any country's difficulties in development.
Shit! I cannot leave now! Things have started to get interesting! Welcome to the hair-splitting group! Debosky, you see statistics and fine fine English arguement you are now saying something else!  Which one you and your gang dey sef? Bros Ugwunba! You sure your are not Danmasani? You medium of expression is too much! Please hang around so we can see a different breed in Nairaland! Thumbs up! Knock em dead! As you can see, this bunch have rough edges as tall as elephant grasses! Which landscaper can we employ to mow their rough edges I beg! Chai! Make I no miss my happy hour oh!  My poor husband don ready and I dey for here? I beg later! |
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debosky (m)
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where are your statistics on this puported GDP drop that occured in '77? if i am to follow your reasoning, there was an upswing in Oil prices in Obj's term then, which in Nigeria equates to increased GDP, so correct that disconnect will you? what decline are you talking about that started in '77 but was not there in the oil slump prior to this?
your so called collateral proof is a blanket condemnation of all loans and their utilisation, and I disagree, furnish figures to show that there was no difference between the borrowings of Obj, Shagari and Babangida, then I will agree with you.
I am not engaging in hairsplitting, but I believe it is a widely accepted fact that infrastructural development that took place in the late 70's easily outstripped any that occured in Nigeria in any period since then till present date. that to my mind separates the period of Obj's 'first coming' from the others after. his 'second and third coming' are a different issue altogether.
i agree with your last assertion, but were Obj's loans for these 'grandiose' projects? is a refinery a 'grandiose' project? how exactly do you prevent others after you from slacking off and not maintaining what you set up (the main problem in Nigeria)? I don't see that as a support infrastructure issue, but leadership failure
corruption and self enrichment no doubt has occured in most if not all of these individuals, but your attempt to link that to the borrowings in Obj's case needs evidence to back it up, I still stand on my assertions that his borrowings were judicious and well spent, but this legacy was not maintained by others following him, and that my friend is a totally different kettle of fish altogether. there is no progenitor issue related to that.
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GNature (m)
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It may be interesting to note that Nigeria's GDP growth, started its slump in 1977, dropping frlm 6% in 1977 to -5.8% in 1978 (World bank, 1999).
Somebody was clearly responsible for this.
You are skewing the figures. Yes, the GDP growth rate was -5.8% in 1978, but obj was in power for 4 years (1976-1979) and according the world bank, the GDP growth rate for these years were as follows:- 1976 9% 1977 6% 1978 -5.8% 1979 6.8% The average growth rate during his tenure was 4% per annum. You would also note that there was a slight decrease in oil revenue in the year 1978. Now, let's look at Shagari's term (GDP growth) 1980 4.2% 1981 -13.1% 1982 -0.2% 1983 -5.3% 1984 -4.8% So, to state that Nigeria started its lump in GDP growth in 1977/1978, is completely inaccurate. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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You are skewing the figures. Yes, the GDP growth rate was -5.8% in 1978, but obj was in power for 4 years (1976-1979) and according the world bank, the GDP growth rate for these years were as follows:-
1976 - 9%
1977- 6%
1978- -5.8%
1979- 6.8%
The average growth rate during his tenure was 4% per annum. You would also note that there was a slight decrease in oil revenue in the year 1978.
Now, let's look at Shagari's term (GDP growth)
1980 - 4.2%
1981- -13.1%
1982- -0.2%
1983 -5.3%
1984 -4.8%
So, to state that Nigeria started its lump in GDP growth in 1977/1978, is completely inaccurate.
@ GNature, I leave out some of these bits of info to draw people like you in. 1. Firstly, before OBJ started us on the 'bad loan' ride, 1976 -1977 were growth years. My exact point was that it was not a mere coincidence that the first major slump in GDP growth came in the year ending an ill-advised and fiscally irresponsible loan. Don't your figures, which I also have, support my statement of the start of the slump? 2. Secondly, I am glad you use 'slight' for the oil revenue change in 1978 (would have expressed my disappointment otherwise). So the -5.8% decline in GDP was not as a result of oil revenues. 3. In contrast, The 1979 GDP growth was more a reflection of the change in oil prices which, as I mentioned somewhere, were on the increase from about $33 to $68 (over 100%, a rather substantial change that masked the inefficiences, profligacy and graft in the outgoing OBJ regime). 4. Okay, so Shagari did worse in oil boom years, PRAY TELL ME HOW THIS EXONERATES OBJ? I DEY WAIT OH!!! @MILITIA, abeg my sister hang around. |
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GNature (m)
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first major slump in GDP growth
Again, your stating that Nigeria witnessed its first major slump in GDP growth under obj is false. We had negative GDP growth in the following years:- 1966 -4.3% 1967 -15.7% 1975 -5.2% Also, the downward trend in GDP growth cannot be attributed to Obj because two years after the 1978 slump, there were positive GDP growth rates of 6.8% in 1979 and 4.2% in 1980. The slump started during Shagari's regime. |
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debosky (m)
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so simply taking a loan that was according to you 'ill-advised and fiscally irresponsible' (still don't see the evidence of this assertion) resulted in the GDP slump? it must have been really instantaneous in its effect. please explain it to us - the loan automatically made Nigerians less productive in the year it was obtained leading to poor GDP growth right? the decline had to be as a result of reduced oil revenues, or other issues such as a poor agricultural season, definitely not taking a loan. it is a wild stretch of conjecture to link a loan (which results in increased economic activity, at least at the onset) to an instant decrease in GDP, if you said it caused a decrease years down the line due to the need for repayment, that would have even been a more credible argument. but your economics on the cause and effect relationship between Obj's loan and the GDP drop (only in 78) is very flawed and simplistic to say the least
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GNature (m)
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Let me state for the record that I do not believe OBj is a saint, but at the same time, we cannot come here and make blanket statements without backing them up.
First, Ugwumba said the bulk of the $35 billion debt were incurred by the first obasanjo administration. He said obasanjo borrowed $2 billion while Shagari and IBB borrowed $9 billion and $6 billion respectively, yet obj is responsible for the bulk of the debt.
Second, he stated that the first major slump in Nigeria's GDP growth was during obasanjo's military rule. This is untrue as I have given the world bank figures to dispute this claim.
We should stop blaming Obasanjo for all of Nigeria's problems.
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Ugwumba (m)
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so simply taking a loan that was according to you 'ill-advised and fiscally irresponsible' (still don't see the evidence of this assertion) resulted in the GDP slump? it must have been really instantaneous in its effect. please explain it to us - the loan automatically made Nigerians less productive in the year it was obtained leading to poor GDP growth right? the decline had to be as a result of reduced oil revenues, or other issues such as a poor agricultural season, definitely not taking a loan. it is a wild stretch of conjecture to link a loan (which results in increased economic activity, at least at the onset) to an instant decrease in GDP, if you said it caused a decrease years down the line due to the need for repayment, that would have even been a more credible argument. but your economics on the cause and effect relationship between Obj's loan and the GDP drop (only in 78) is very flawed and simplistic to say the least
Will reply when I see the sense in this, but there are very many articles on the impact (sometimes instantaneous) of a debt burden on GDP growth. Understand that I only refer to the coincidence of this slump with an increasing debt profile. |
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debosky (m)
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Will reply when I see the sense in this, but there are very many articles on the impact (sometimes instantaneous) of a debt burden on GDP growth. Understand that I only refer to the coincidence of ths slump with an increasing debt profile.
@ GNature, I leave out some of these bits of info to draw people like you in.
1. Firstly, before OBJ took started us on the 'bad loan' ride, 1976 -1977 were growth years. My exact point was that it was not a mere coincidence that the first major slump in GDP growth came in the year ending an ill-advised and fiscally irresponsible loan.
Don't your figures, which I also have, support my statement of the start of the slump?
first you say it was Not mere coincidence, now you say it was just a coincidence? which are we to believe? Forgive me for am not a trained economist, but try and follow my reasoning here: I understand the effects of loan repayments on GDP growth, since funds possibly used for development are diverted to repay the loans, but how does the introduction of a loan (essentially a capital injection into the economy at that point) result in an instantaneous GDP drop the very year the loan is disbursed? |
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Ugwumba (m)
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Let me state for the record that I do not believe OBj is a saint, but at the same time, we cannot come here and make blanket assertions without backing them up.
First, Ugwumba said the bulk of the $35 billion debt were incurred by the first obasanjo administration. He said obasanjo borrowed $2 billion while Shagari and IBB borrowed $9 billion and $6 billion respectively, yet obj is responsible for the bulk of the debt.
I again reassert that, due to the much higher interest rates OBJ borrowed at, the lack of any servicing of these debts by Shagari, the longer intervening period between him and IBB, a bulk of the $35 billion debt burden (you can split hairs again on my choice of the word bulk - 20% by one individual loan is bulk if it is the single largest component). The debt portfolio from 1960 indicates that by 2005 the lower interest bilateral/ multilateral (World bank, IMF) loans were a minor percentage compared to the loans from international capital markets (Paris, London clubs). All OBJ's loans fall in the later category, were largely unpaid by 2004 and with interest and penalties made up a substantial portion of the money owed to international capital markets. You can argue, until you get hoarse, on why Shagari and subsequent governments did not pay back the loans, but instead went on a spending spree of their own, but OBJ started the trend of jumbo loans at competitive market interest rates, against the colonial and pre-OBJ bilateral (and low interest) loans. One reason adduced for the shift was that while the World bank and IMF had stringent conditions and performance requirements on their loans, the international capital markets did not, allowing corrupt African leaders to fritter away these loans on clearly non-developmental projects. Second, he stated that the first major slump in Nigeria's GDP growth was during obasanjo's military rule. This is untrue as I have given the world bank figures to dispute this claim.
Uptil 1975, we were recovering from a civil war, oil prices were below $20/ barrel and the boom years did not start till 1976. So I think I can be permitted if I have excluded these years, knowingly, in my analysis, making the first year of my analysis 1976 - the start of our oil boom. Use the figures with some insight, as I have chosen to do, and note mine is a 'coincident-correlated' and not 'confirmatory-definitive' link. We should stop blaming Obasanjo for all of Nigeria's problems.
Oh, I don't blame him for all our problems, NEITHER DO I ABSOLVE HIM OF COMPLICITY. |
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GNature (m)
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I again reassert that, due to the much higher interest rates OBJ borrowed at, the lack of any servicing of these debts by Shagari, the longer intervening period between him and IBB, a bulk of the $35 billion debt burden (you can split hairs again on my choice of the word bulk - 20% by one individual loan is bulk if it is the single largest component).
Could you provide me with a link that validates your claim that:- 1. Obj borrowed $2 billion "at 8%" 2. Neither Shagari, Buhari or IBB serviced this debt and the interest kept being capitalized ? I have looked all over and can't find anything to back your claim. --------> How is it that Shagari, Buhari & IBB were able to take more loans without servicing the loan obj took in 1978 ? it doesn't add up. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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@ debosky, kind of suspected from how you reply (you appear to ignore the context in which a statement is made) that you were going to hang on my use of the word coincidence - so in my last reply I said the following:
Use the figures with some insight, as I have chosen to do, and note mine is a 'coincident-correlated' and not 'confirmatory-definitive' link.
When two variables (in this case GDP growth and debt) show a significant correlation, or anti-correlation, then the term 'coincident' is used to indicate that, while there may be other factors, the correlation may be assumed to exist. If one looks at our debt portfolio and GDP growth, each time we borrowed heavily (e.g. 1977-78, 1980-81, 1982-83), there was a sudden drastic drop in GDP growth. Finally, if I must ask before continuing this, do you defend OBJ on an 'Omowa' basis, because if you do, then we clearly argue from different perspectives. While there are a number of very admirable Yoruba-born leaders, OBJ is , unfortunately, part and parcel of the heritage of corruption in Nigeria, as are Orji Kalu, Chimaraoke Nnamani and all my thieving Ibo leaders. I make no excuses for them and condemn them all in equal measure. To think or argue otherwise does a great disservice to your intellect and the contributions of your irrepressible heroes - the Gani's, Soyinka's and a host of others. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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@ GNature, I am not an 'internet' researcher, and can give references and not 'links'. The references will act as a guide, and I cannot be certain you can get access to them, as the key ones are not in the public domain, but if you do, you will need to do some further analysis (please do not start adding percentages as you have done with numbers previously). Could you provide me with a link that validates your claim that:-
1. Obj borrowed $2 billion "at 8%"
2. Neither Shagari, Buhari or IBB serviced this debt and the interest kept being capitalized ?
I have looked all over and can't find anything to back your claim.
The 8% is not a figure you will see in any document, and was used in answer to a question on how $2 billion in 1977 could amount to a substantial portion of $35 billion in 2004. The references below indicate the interest rates were high and the conditions attracted severe penalties for defaulting (which we did). Shagari was busy borrowing, servicing as little as he could, Buhari serviced what he could, but was burdened by Shagari's debts, IBB continued borrowing. The bulk of the pre-1980 loans were mostly left unserviced. 1. The Federal Government's internal documents on the Settlement of the Paris Club debts, The Federal ministry of Finance, DMO & Accountant-General of Nigeria, 2002. 2. DMO: Nigeria And The Paris Club (2004). 3. External Debt And Management Policy, NIGERIA ECONOMY, STRUCTURE, GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT, Obadan I. Mike (2002). 4. Economic Reforms and Nigeria's Political Crisis, (Spectrum Books Limited, Ibadan) Umoren Rose (2001). |
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angel101 (f)
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very interesting indeed. |
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GNature (m)
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Here, you are stating that payments were being made on the loans. @ GNature, the way you have used these numbers is laughable, to say the least.
Yes, if the interest for IBB & Shagari's loans were added, we would be well above $35 billion - but we were at ALL times servicing some portion of the debts using different instruments.
By 1988 (most borrowing done by then), our debt profile stood at $29.282 billion - made up of a new of loans, unpaid interest and unpaid principal from existing loans.
Your math misses the repayments (should be subtracted).
Now, you are stating otherwise:-
I again reassert that, due to the much higher interest rates OBJ borrowed at, the lack of any servicing of these debts by Shagari, the longer intervening period between him and IBB, a bulk of the $35 billion debt burden (you can split hairs again on my choice of the word bulk - 20% by one individual loan is bulk if it is the single largest component).
So, which version of your story are we to believe ? The fact that payments were made to service the debt or the fact that payments were not made to service the debt ? Also, you have not explained how Shagari, Buhari and IBB were able to obtain loans without servicing the loan obtained by obj in 1977/1978. |
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Ugwumba (m)
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Here, you are stating that payments were being made on the loans.
Now, you are stating otherwise:-
So, which version of your story are we to believe ? The fact that payments were made to service the debt or the fact that payments were not made to service the debt ?
Also, you have not explained how Shagari, Buhari and IBB were able to obtain loans without servicing the loan obtained by obj in 1977/1978.
My bros, the contradiction is in your mind alone. That a debt portfolio including OBJ and none-OBJ loans were being serviced at ALL times without servicing much of the OBJ loans is NOT A CONTRADICTION. Let me know if it is clearer. Ehmmmm, take some time to see if you can get the reference material (you asked for), read, digest, analize and then we can proceed with this discourse. On how Shagari et al could continue borrowing without paying back much from existing loans - this is a fact, because at every point we borrowed we were still in debt, otherwise our debt portfolio could not have grown so large (given that the sums actually borrowed by Shagari & IBB amounted to about $15 billion). |
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