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Vicjustice (m)
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Most people seem to turn their fingers toward white people when talking about racism and racists. We seem not to realise that in the real sense, white people are much fairer to us than our fellow black people.
This brings me to the understanding that there is actual racism in Nigeria: but we don't see it as racism because we classify the behaviours into a wrong category.
For example, some Yoruba families often would not let their daughters get into marriages with Igbo men, most Igbo families would not encourage an inter-marriage with the Huasas, most Hausa families would often not accept inter-marriages with either Yorubas or Igbos, and the same applies with the minorities in Nigeria: Even among the Igbos, there is this intense degree of tribal prejudice: for example, an Anambra man disregard an Owerri woman and might not want anything serious with her, worst still, there is this barbaric cultural practice that distinguish some certain tribes known as Osu in isolated margin (that's if i'm accurate).
Many people are also refused or denied social opportunities for reason of their races or backgrounds, but we don't seem to mind these developments, we only accuse white people of racism when we're refused or denied some benefits.
Now, talking about the grudges and ill-feelings, can we see that there's prejudice in Nigeria, and that we suffer racism from fellow Nigerians than from white people?
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drrionelli (m)
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Vic, you've made an interesting observation. While I can't speak for Nigeria, I do know that, in the US, blacks often tend to hinder other blacks in any of a number of aspects--some subtle, some not-so-subtle.
I'm interested to see the response you get from this from those who are closer to it than I. It should be interesting to see how it might be, in their eyes, justified.
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laudate
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Most people seem to turn their fingers toward white people when talking about racism and racists. We seem not to realise that in the real sense, white people are much fairer to us than our fellow black people.
This brings me to the understanding that there is actual racism in Nigeria: but we don't see it as racism because we classify the behaviours into a wrong category.
For example, some Yoruba families often would not let their daughters get into marriages with Igbo men, most Igbo families would not encourage an inter-marriage with the Huasas, most Hausa families would often not accept inter-marriages with either Yorubas or Igbos, and the same applies with the minorities in Nigeria: Erm. . . .the correct term I believe, is tribalism, not racism. Nigerians irrespective of their ethnic origins, all share the same racial background. In the examples cited above, you said: some Yoruba families often would not let their daughters get into marriages with Igbo men, most Igbo families would not encourage an inter-marriage with the Huasas, most Hausa families would often not accept inter-marriages with either Yorubas or Igbos, etc. Well, most Igbo families too, would not let their kids (especially their sons), marry from a Yoruba family. So I guess it cuts across both ways. Even among the Igbos, there is this intense degree of tribal prejudice: for example, an Anambra man disregard an Owerri woman and might not want anything serious with her, worst still, there is this barbaric cultural practice that distinguish some certain tribes known as Osu in isolated margin (that's if i'm accurate).
Many people are also refused or denied social opportunities for reason of their races or backgrounds, but we don't seem to mind these developments, we only accuse white people of racism when we're refused or denied some benefits.
Now, talking about the grudges and ill-feelings, can we see that there's prejudice in Nigeria, and that we suffer racism from fellow Nigerians than from white people?
True!! There's prejudice, tribalism (not racism), nepotism, and all kinds of negative -isms in Nigeria. The question is: how do we resolve these issues? What is the way out?? |
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tpia
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personally, I believe tribalism is the African form of racism.
both are akin to stupidity.
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LILDICE$
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my grandmother will never let my ants get married to a 419 man.
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SMC (f)
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Erm. . . .the correct term I believe, is tribalism, not racism. Nigerians irrespective of their ethnic origins, all share the same racial background.
I couldn't have put it better myself. The fact of life is that as long as there are human beings, there will always be one form of discrimination/prejudice or another. You cannot take away the right of people to pick and choose in their private life who they would associate with. It is when this discrimination extends socially, at work, school or in other aspects of life that it becomes a problem. Let's take the tribal discrimination in marriage example given by the poster. Some people would never date or marry a fat woman and others a skinny woman and they make this known, while this is a form of discrimination, it goes to personal taste and no one can begrudge such a person their right to so choose and this is the same for choosing a wife or husband from any tribe. It is when people say that "I won't work with that man because he is fat", or "my child cannot be friends with an Igbo child" or "I can't travel in the same vehicle as a Yoruba Woman" e.t.c. that the discrimination becomes a societal problem. There is discrimination everywhere in the world. One white man would call another "a redneck" signifying that he is inferior. In the England, people from the south look down on people from the north and mock their accents etc. It's the way life is. Not nice, I know but that is the reality of life. |
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Vicjustice (m)
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Erm. . . .the correct term I believe, is tribalism, not racism. Nigerians irrespective of their ethnic origins, all share the same racial background.
True!! There's prejudice, tribalism (not racism), nepotism, and all kinds of negative -isms in Nigeria. The question is: how do we resolve these issues? What is the way out??
Com'on, you can understand better than this. Well, most Nigerians mistake Racism for Tribalism, though. We only mind the primary definition of racism as something relating to white and black and we undermind some secondary definitions. Racism doesn't just consist of issues of colours, it deeply consist of matters among people of same colours but different back-ground of origin. For example, the German race, the Greek race, the Roman race, Jewish race etc. Tribalism consists of issues among people of same race, but different tribes. You can not say that the difference between the Ibos and the Housas is tribe, that would be wrong. Let me enlighten you. Talking about Igbo for instance, it is a race of it's own, and in this race, there are tribes: therefore, if an Igbo person have prejudice with fellow Igbos for reason of his origin back-ground, such issue could be referred to as tribalism. But if an Igbo man is prejudiced against a Hausa man for reason of his origin, this is RACISM. Remember the twelve tribes of Israel? They were all born of one father, and yet, their offsprings were/are classified into tribes. Take some examples: An English man would accuse Germany of racism toward them, are they not all whites? Adolph Hitler was a racist toward Polish people, are they not whites? So, my dear, the problem in Nigeria is racism, not tribalism, tribalism is an issue among people of the same race. What about the Oduduwa race? |
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chiogo (f)
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@topic, yup. u are so right! D racism in naija is greater than any i've ever seen. phewwwwwww! It's a big shame.
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drrionelli (m)
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Perhaps the solution to the problem is to rethink the entire nature of the beast, so to speak.
There can't be racism if there is no race. And, science has yet to come up with a working definition for race. Thus, no race=no racism.
However, there are still tribes and other ways to discriminate. What do we do about those?
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Dis Guy
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For example, some Yoruba families often would not let their daughters get into marriages with Igbo men, most Igbo families would not encourage an inter-marriage with the Huasas, most Hausa families would often not accept inter-marriages with either Yorubas or Igbos, and the same applies with the minorities in Nigeria: Even among the Igbos, there is this intense degree of tribal prejudice: for example, an Anambra man disregard an Owerri woman and might not want anything serious with her, worst still, there is this barbaric cultural practice that distinguish some certain tribes known as Osu in isolated margin (that's if i'm accurate).
Many people are also refused or denied social opportunities for reason of their races or backgrounds, but we don't seem to mind these developments, we only accuse white people of racism when we're refused or denied some benefits.
Now, talking about the grudges and ill-feelings, can we see that there's prejudice in Nigeria, and that we suffer racism from fellow Nigerians than from white people?
hmm i like the was you put this, infact you can be accused of committing the same offence you are yapping about  |
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Vicjustice (m)
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hmm i like the was you put this, infact you can be accused of committing the same offence you are yapping about How do you mean? |
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MP007 (m)
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racism is different from tribalism ,
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Baba_Dibia
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so which one is vij talking abaut rasism or tribalism?
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chiogo (f)
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who cares if they're different. y'all get d point anywayz. ok, there's too much tribalism in naija. whichever u call it, d point is that naija people are "tribalists", ever heard of that? no, racists!
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Vicjustice (m)
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If the difference between Igbo and Hausa is "tribe", what then is the difference between an Onitsha man and an Oweri man; also, what's the defference between an Ijebu man and an Abeokuta man? Checkout this definitions for RACE from Merriam Webster online dictionary at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics. 2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race. 3. A genealogical line; a lineage. 4. Humans considered as a group. 5. Biology a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies. b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals. 6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine. More definition for RACE http://www.m-w.com/dictionaryMain Entry: 3race Function: noun Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza 1 : a breeding stock of animals 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits 4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition 5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength |
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drrionelli (m)
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Thanks for posting those, Vicjustice.  These definitions underscore perfectly my assertion that, while race can be defined in loose, broad terms, the word carries no empirical quantification. Consider: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.The phrase "more or less" is about as vague as it gets. Does skin pigmentation--which is observed in varying degrees in every population from Samoa to Qatar--suggest "race?" Does height? Surely, there are very tall and very short Asians as well as very tall and very short Europeans. Eye color? Certainly there are brown-eyed Africans as well as brown-eyed Native Americans. Are they of the same "race?" Consider: A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.Arbitrary at best. How far back does this so-called "common history" go? Nationality? Doesn't that have its own definition? Geographic distribution? Uh, no. Yes, a nice thought, but a bit quixotic at best. Consider: A genealogical line; a lineage.Whether you accept creationism or evolution, the basis of these is common ancestry. You see my point. Racism is so preposterous because there's no precise, specific definition of race. Many of the manifestations of what we call racism are, in reality, cultural (e.g., religion). Remember--we're more alike than we are different. |
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Vicjustice (m)
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Thanks for posting those, Vicjustice. These definitions underscore perfectly my assertion that, while race can be defined in loose, broad terms, the word carries no empirical quantification. Consider: A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics.The phrase "more or less" is about as vague as it gets. Does skin pigmentation--which is observed in varying degrees in every population from Samoa to Qatar--suggest "race?" Does height? Surely, there are very tall and very short Asians as well as very tall and very short Europeans. Eye color? Certainly there are brown-eyed Africans as well as brown-eyed Native Americans. Are they of the same "race?" Consider: A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.Arbitrary at best. How far back does this so-called "common history" go? Nationality? Doesn't that have its own definition? Geographic distribution? Uh, no. Yes, a nice thought, but a bit quixotic at best. Consider: A genealogical line; a lineage.Whether you accept creationism or evolution, the basis of these is common ancestry. You see my point. Racism is so preposterous because there's no precise, specific definition of race. Many of the manifestations of what we call racism are, in reality, cultural (e.g., religion). Remember--we're more alike than we are different. Man, are you a sociologist? Your post seems very intellectual, but i don't think every user of this versatile forum would understand many of your "big, big gramma"  . |
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Vicjustice (m)
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Most Nigerians never really care to check a standard dictionary for the actual (secondary) meaning of race because, they believe race has only got to do with colours of skins (black and white)  If all ethnic groups in Nigeria are of one race, then the whole Europeans are of one race too. Com'on, you can understand better than this. Well, most Nigerians mistake Racism for Tribalism, though. We only mind the primary definition of racism as something relating to white and black and we undermind some secondary definitions.
Racism doesn't just consist of issues of colours, it deeply consist of matters among people of same colours but different back-ground of origin. For example, the German race, the Greek race, the Roman race, Jewish race etc.
Tribalism consists of issues among people of same race, but different tribes. You can not say that the difference between the Ibos and the Housas is tribe, that would be wrong. Let me enlighten you. Talking about Igbo for instance, it is a race of it's own, and in this race, there are tribes: therefore, if an Igbo person have prejudice with fellow Igbos for reason of his origin back-ground, such issue could be referred to as tribalism. But if an Igbo man is prejudiced against a Hausa man for reason of his origin, this is RACISM.
Remember the twelve tribes of Israel? They were all born of one father, and yet, their offsprings were/are classified into tribes.
Take some examples: An English man would accuse Germany of racism toward them, are they not all whites? Adolph Hitler was a racist towar Polish people, are they not whites?
So, my dear, the problem in Nigeria is racism, not tribalism, tribalism is an issue among people of the same race. What about the Oduduwa race?
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Vicjustice (m)
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If the difference between Igbo and Hausa is "tribe", what then is the difference between an Onitsha man and an Oweri man; also, what's the defference between an Ijebu man and an Abeokuta man? Checkout this definitions for RACE from Merriam Webster online dictionary at: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/race1. A local geographic or global human population distinguished as a more or less distinct group by genetically transmitted physical characteristics. 2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race. 3. A genealogical line; a lineage. 4. Humans considered as a group. 5. Biology a. An interbreeding, usually geographically isolated population of organisms differing from other populations of the same species in the frequency of hereditary traits. A race that has been given formal taxonomic recognition is known as a subspecies. b. A breed or strain, as of domestic animals. 6. A distinguishing or characteristic quality, such as the flavor of a wine. More definition for RACE http://www.m-w.com/dictionaryMain Entry: 3race Function: noun Etymology: Middle French, generation, from Old Italian razza 1 : a breeding stock of animals 2 a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>3 a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits 4 obsolete : inherited temperament or disposition 5 : distinctive flavor, taste, or strength |
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drrionelli (m)
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@Vicjustice:
First of all, thank you for suggesting that my post seems intellectual. My hope is that it would, indeed, stir some discussion among those on this versatile forum. No, I'm not a sociologist. However, I feel that if an issue is to be considered and discussed, it must first be clearly defined, which, as you see, race is not.
My putatively "big, big gramma" is certainly not intended to dazzle or confuse. Rather, it is intended only to underscore that we must know what racism is before we can address it.
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Baba_Dibia
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rasism is the why it is dificolt to get abroad visa, if you want to escape rasism, i have good medecin to help you. thanks you
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drrionelli (m)
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You have a medicine that acts against racism? What sort of pharmaceutical is this, if I may ask?  |
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Armed-Lion (m)
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there are both racism and tribalism in Nigeria
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drrionelli (m)
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@Armed-Lion:
My friend, please explain to us how these manifest themselves. Feel free to use examples, if need be.
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Armed-Lion (m)
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it seems you're a little bit lazy to read other posts
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drrionelli (m)
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If you, sir, would note that I have made postings on this topic, both initialized and in response to others, you might not be so quick to suggest laziness on my part.
My fervent hope was that you might wish to add your own views to those others already stated--and read. I respect whatever supported contentions that you may have with regard to this issue. I trust that such respect is reciprocal and mutual.
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Vicjustice (m)
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I'd wish to see how many people still think it's tribalism, don't be afraid to make a vote
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Armed-Lion (m)
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If you, sir, would note that I have made postings on this topic, both initialized and in response to others, you might not be so quick to suggest laziness on my part.
My fervent hope was that you might wish to add your own views to those others already stated--and read. I respect whatever supported contentions that you may have with regard to this issue. I trust that such respect is reciprocal and mutual.
i hope you didn't take offence at me, i didn't mean to offend you. Sorry. it could be cald trabalism too, it depends. . . |
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drrionelli (m)
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I, too, sir, hope that you were not offended by the tone of my words. I extend my apologies, if, indeed, you were.
I offer to you my hand in friendship!
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Vicjustice (m)
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@drrionelli, Though i sense that you're a black guy, but i doubt you're a Nigerian. Are you ? |
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