Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.

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Nairaland Forum  |  General Discussion  |  Politics  |  Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
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Author Topic: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.  (Read 1164 views)
angel101 (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #32 on: July 19, 2007, 03:03 PM »

 :d :d :d
MILITIA (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #33 on: July 19, 2007, 03:07 PM »

Chai!  Laffing myself to T and P!  -------- to tears and piss!   I can't stop laffing  Make them no get cold feet now!  We will warm them up well well! Grin
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #34 on: July 19, 2007, 04:17 PM »

When buying a new refinery you pitch an average price of $1,000/bpd.

So basically, the Kaduna Refinery should cost no more than 100,000bpd x $1,000  which will be $100,000,000.


The China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) knew full well that they could build a brand new, more modern refinery with the same capacity for less. So why would anybody pay $160,000,000 for that old piece of scrap? Because of National Pride and warehouses full of spare parts? Well, Chinese don't have Nigerian National Pride and they come with their own spare parts.


Yet Nigerians a shouting foul play when Bluestar just overpaid $60,000,000 for a refinery that does nothing.

The Federal Government better make sure they don't go back on the deal because them don catch Dangote mugu. There's no professional  in the Petroleum industry worldwide that would pay $160,000,000 for a 100,000 bpd Refinery unless there's also a diamond mine somewhere below that complex.

Anyway, Bluestar would still make its money back fast considering that they'd be running a monopoly during their first 2 years of operation. So no need for tears. And no need for cold feet. A deal is a deal. No renegging.
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #35 on: July 19, 2007, 04:32 PM »

$500,000,000 for a 300,000 bpd Refinery is totally outrageous. Abi na designer Refinery?

And the worst part is that they didn't even buy all the shares they bought 80%. I wish them luck sha.
youngies (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #36 on: July 19, 2007, 04:51 PM »

Quote from: denex on July 19, 2007, 01:40 PM
Bluestar was only trying their best. When you offer these facilities on the international market, the counter offers are far lower than what Nigerian Companies offer. Yet Nigerians still claim that they are being scammed.

No denex,

Nigerians are not claiming that they being scammed, they simply stated that Bluestar committed Blue murder

According the slain manager of the Kaduna refinary, the amount BS bought the refinenary is only equivalent to the cost the spare parts in the warehouse only.

The public hearing conducted by the House of Reps. revealed also that the consultants hired by BPE for the sale of the refinary did not visit the refinenary physically to value it. They valued the refinenary right in their office in Abuja.

Who is fooling who?
Iyke-D (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #37 on: July 19, 2007, 05:03 PM »

Quote
It was wrong for the refineries to have been sold to Dangote & Co without due process.Why are some people seeing these opportunists as saviours?Anybody who gets the same level of govt patronage as the Dangotes will be equally as rich as they are.Nigeria belongs to us all.

Without due process? What exactly is due process to you? The refineries were earmarked for sale a
couple of years ago, it wasn't initiated on the last week of May as some people would rather let you
believe.

Isn't it a good development for someone who had enjoyed government patrronage in the past to
want to invest in a project that will have the most impact on the masses? Do you honestly think if
Dangote is interested in matching or exceeding Femi as the leading importer of fuel and diesel he
can't do that, even given his very well know government patronage?

Oh well, you guys can have your stinking refineries back. It will drain more funds that could be better
spent on roads or the power sector, but that will be asking for too much. As one wise one commented
earlier, let it sit there and rot - you guys seem to prefer it that way!
youngies (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #38 on: July 19, 2007, 05:11 PM »

Quote from: Iyke-D on July 19, 2007, 05:03 PM
Oh well, you guys can have your stinking refineries back. It will drain more funds that could be better
spent on roads or the power sector, but that will be asking for too much. As one wise one commented
earlier, let it sit there and rot - you guys seem to prefer it that way!

Wishy whishy wish!!

In a country of over 150 million people, they are certainly not the only wisemen around.
MILITIA (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #39 on: July 19, 2007, 05:41 PM »

Amen! Grin
ADint (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #40 on: July 19, 2007, 06:05 PM »

Dangote and Co. (Bluestar) were the highest bidders and thus won the rights to acquire the refineries!  The bid process was not private nor closed, any Tom, privates, Chika, Usman or Tunde could, and should have, put in a higher bid if they had the guts and the money.  Perceived instability (political, regional, religious etc) either real or imagined does not instill confidence in the business community both local and international.  $721m is a huge and risky commitment by any standard, and if Dangote and Co. were willing to take the risk, while non other(s) both local and international were willing to, they should be applauded.

It goes without saying that Dangote and Co. would have turned the refineries around, and have them operate at optimal capacity, thus making petroleum products more readily available and consequently bring down the price.

MILITIA (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #41 on: July 19, 2007, 06:14 PM »

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm! Lips sealed
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #42 on: July 19, 2007, 06:15 PM »

@youngies

Why don't you find out how much a 100,000 bpd refinery cost, let alone one which is not functional and you will realise why nobody wanted to buy the refineries years after they were put on the market.
laudate
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #43 on: July 19, 2007, 06:28 PM »

Quote from: denex on July 19, 2007, 04:17 PM
When buying a new refinery you pitch an average price of $1,000/bpd.

So basically, the Kaduna Refinery should cost no more than 100,000bpd x $1,000 which will be $100,000,000.

The China National Petroleum Corporation (CNPC) knew full well that they could build a brand new, more modern refinery with the same capacity for less. So why would anybody pay $160,000,000 for that old piece of scrap? Because of National Pride and warehouses full of spare parts? Well, Chinese don't have Nigerian National Pride and they come with their own spare parts.

If it costs far less to build a brand new refinery, why did Dangote et al decide to pay more, for an existing one?? Or is he Father Donatus? Abeg, there is more to this deal than meets the eye.

Quote from: denex on July 19, 2007, 04:32 PM
$500,000,000 for a 300,000 bpd Refinery is totally outrageous. Abi na designer Refinery?

And the worst part is that they didn't even buy all the shares they bought 80%. I wish them luck sha.

They do not need luck. Dangote & Otedola are shrewd business men, who knew exactly what they were getting into, when they bidded for that refinery. I just keep wondering why everyone thinks that selling to the duo was a more altruistic move, than selling to other people with the technical capability to turn the refineries around. Dangote & Otedola are business men. Period. They are out to make money, not to lose it. Nothing stops them from selling off the petroleum products refined by these plants into the international market, and turning round to claim that they have nothing left to sell to the local market. Afterall, as the new owners they don't have to dance to anyone's tune.

Go to Otedola's Zenon depot, and see if he will sell refined automotive gas oil to you at a discount, simply because he likes your face, or because you are a fellow Naija man.
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #44 on: July 19, 2007, 06:37 PM »

Definitely, the Nigerian factor along with monopoly, 140 million customers and increase in fuel price will be enough for them to rake back their investments in one year. But foreign investors cannot understand this. So they can't see why they should buy these refineries at those prices, especially when they are not in working conditions.
Aneef (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #45 on: July 19, 2007, 07:49 PM »

Too bad they pull out.Let's wait and see what will be the end result but I hope it will not seriously draw us back.
MILITIA (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #46 on: July 19, 2007, 08:00 PM »

Quote from: Aneef on July 19, 2007, 07:49 PM
Too bad they pull out.Let's wait and see what will be the end result but I hope it will not seriously draw us back.

Hmmmmmmm!  Were we "forward" before? Shocked
debosky (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #47 on: July 19, 2007, 08:06 PM »

Dangote and co will sit back and watch NNPC make a fool of itself again. Funsho Kupolokun and his crew are a bunch of double mouthed thieves

they will ask the same guys to come take over the refineries again after NNPC messes up. The one refinery that wasn't privatised then- Warri; what did NNPC do with it? is it not the same refinery that tanks were leaking and almost burnt the whole of Warri with the resulting inferno?

The National Assembly/Labor have allowed sentiments and fly by night calculations to cloud their judgement. If after 4 years of privatising, Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Agip, Total and co refused to buy your refineries, even at the so called 'cheap' prices, which international bodies do you think will buy them now?

NNPC that couldn't run them at better than 35% capacity now thinks it can run them well, now they say Obj's policy held them back, let us see how they will perform.

To the folk saying there are 'other Nigerians' - who stopped them from bidding for the refineries? only Oando and Pertroplus bidded alongside Dangote, and they still couldn't cough up the money to 'cheaply' buy off the refinery!

It is a good move by Dangote, shebi una fit handle am abi? after the last 8 years of failure, lets see the magic they will perform in 1 year.

One last note, even with the purported prices of spare parts and so on that would make the refineries worth more, the pension liabilities, and risk factors for operating in Nigeria must be factored into the cost; and those make the refineries very unattractive for outsiders, that is why after all this while no international oil company is interested in running these refineries. In addition, whatever the purported value these senators (I don't know when they became valuers and asset inspectors) put on the refinery, it would do them good to know that Dangote only purchased 51% of the refinery shares, meaning the $751million represents 51% of the cost

lets see how it all turns out, foreigners don't invest, yet we want to chase the locals putting their money into the economy, good luck.
debosky (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #48 on: July 19, 2007, 08:11 PM »

DON'T GIVE NNPC THOSE REFINERIES!! - Biodun Sonowo THE PUNCH

"THE Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation under its current head, Funsho Kupolokun, has publicly shown its true hue. At a Senate public hearing in Abuja last week, the state-owned oil conglomerate and its regulatory arm, the Department of Petroleum Resources, reversed themselves on a keystone of official policy. The reversal was all the more remarkable in view of the stridency of Kupolokun’s long-standing advocacy of deregulation and privatisation in the downstream sector of the oil and gas industry.

According to the new gospel coming from the NNPC, the hasty sale of the Port Harcourt and Kaduna refineries should be cancelled. This proposition enjoys widespread support among many Nigerians who are understandably angry with the head of a committee that collected millions of naira from the government to undertake a nationwide tour to ‘sensitise’ Nigerians to the imperative of the official version of liberalisation.

As repeatedly enunciated by Kupolokun, pump prices of refined petroleum products must be dictated by ‘market forces’ and reflect the price of crude oil in the international market. To ensure the affordability of the products, the importation of refined products would be thrown open to all those who had the wherewithal to do so as long as they met the specifications.To make importation attractive for these importers, prices were to be adjusted upwards on the assumption of higher domestic pump prices and guranteed profits. This would encourage them to venture into products importation in the first place.

In the meantime, the government would immediately halt the wasteful expenditure on turnaround maintenance of the refineries and indeed, sell majority equity in them to reputable core investors. Licences would also be issued to interested private sector operators to establish their own refineries.

It was this gospel that the current Group Managing Director of the NNPC articulated and preached everywhere. His position had weight as he was viewed by many as having the former president’s ear in addition to being a member of the presidential economic team. Some will recall how the oil sector executive, shortly before he replaced Jackson Gaius Obaseki as GMD, insisted that government would not spend a kobo more on TAM on the refineries as it was determined to exit the management of refineries completely and rightly allow the private sector to do the job.

Many ordinary Nigerians did not notice this, but once he assumed the driver’s seat at the NNPC headquarters, Abuja, the man was no longer desperate to get government and the oil giant out of the downstream sector. On the contrary, hundreds of millions of dollars have been spent on maintaining the refineries that, like 40-year-old vehicles, hardly operate at 40 per cent of their installed capacity and often, not at all. Besides, the firm under his watch, is still building mega stations to deepen its venture into retailing.

The well-rehearsed performances of the NNPC’s Abubakar Yar’Adua and the DPR Director, Tony Chukwueke at the Senate hearing on the June workers’ strike, reflect the character of advisers who work for successive regimes.

Yar’Adua, on behalf of the NNPC, shifted the blame for the current state of the refineries to the past government by saying a plan by the NNPC to repair them was halted in favour of the government’s preference for selling them. He insisted that the oil firm had the capacity to efficiently run the refineries but was hamstrung by the Obasanjo presidency, which he accused of creating ‘bottlenecks.’ Chukwueke waded in by citing some countries that ran stateowned refineries profitably to back his call for the NNPC’s retention of the privatised refineries.

Their arguments are self-serving and cynical. It is surprising that people who either actively supported the ruinous policies of the last government in the sector, or kept silent and retained their jobs could now disown the regime perhaps to ingratiate themselves with the new occupant of State House.

True, the sale of the Kaduna and Port Harcourt refineries was opaque and fell short of due process, the NNPC apparatchiks should not be allowed to sink their claws into them, ever. Waste, corruption and inefficiency had reigned and hampered the growth of the economy. Under the NNPC, the refineries can never be run efficiently on account of entrenched corruption and its perpetuation by political office-holders who cannot keep their greedy hands away from the millions of dollars required to keep them functioning.

There is no alternative to privatisation in a country like Nigeria where corruption dictates public policy. In countries like China and Saudi Arabia, thieves can be executed when caught. In Nigeria, thieves of the magnitude created by access to public funds hold high offices and are celebrated.

But the biggest lesson from the NNPC’s lunge for the retention of the refineries it had run aground is for President Umaru Yar’Adua. In full public glare, some of those who misadvised and supported his predecessor are distancing themselves from his failures and for reasons that do not necessarily approximate to the advancement of the general economic interests of the commonwealth.

In taking decisions on the problems created for him by Obasanjo, he should realise that the buck stops with him and that as president, he will have many advisers and ‘supporters’ but what will speak for him at the end of his term are those things that will move the economy to a higher level and benefit the greatest number of the populace.

One place to start is to deny the NNPC the opportunity to further torment Nigerians by retaining any refinery at all.

In the same vein, he should reverse or renegotiate the sale of the two which Obasanjo sold with a view to getting them into the hands of capable private operators at a favourable price to the taxpayer who has suffered so much in the hands of plunderers."

http://www.e-punch.com/Default.aspx?selpg=238&selDt=07/18/2007&BMode=100
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #49 on: July 19, 2007, 08:15 PM »

The spare parts should be sold as scrap iron to Ajaokuta Steel because if they were useful, they would have made the refineries work since.

I know for certain though that the Kaduna Refinery as it is today, is not worth $160 million.

Correction: Bluestar bought more than 80% of one of the refineries. But that still is extremely expensive.

Kupolokun is dull. Very, very dull.
Dis Guy
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #50 on: July 19, 2007, 09:05 PM »

Quote
As repeatedly enunciated by Kupolokun, pump prices of refined petroleum products must be dictated by ‘market forces’ and reflect the price of crude oil in the international market. To ensure the affordability of the products, the importation of refined products would be thrown open to all those who had the wherewithal to do so as long as they met the specifications.To make importation attractive for these importers, prices were to be adjusted upwards on the assumption of higher domestic pump prices and guranteed profits. This would encourage them to venture into products importation in the first place.

smart guys these dude will be importing oil with his friends and be sabotaging the national refineries at the same time
market forces:  Shocked Shocked
50kobo
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #51 on: July 19, 2007, 11:17 PM »

couldnt agree even more with debosky!

NNPC is worse dan the police force when it comes to corruption!
When the Ajakeota steel   and Aluminum Smelter Company of Nigeria was sold at giveaway prices to foreign companies (some of them had never visited nigeria!) nobody complained,  but i guess when it has to do with oil, there are many stakeholders(politicians and dose crooks at NNPC) who will scream and shout if their source of income is blocked.  lets see what NNPC will do in the next 1YR, my guess is nothing!
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #52 on: July 20, 2007, 01:03 AM »

this Guy

there is no importer of Crude oil that wants to sabotage refineries. If the refineries are fixed and are producing at capacity, the importers will become marketers and distributors. When more refineries come in, the importers will become exporters to neighbouring countries.
THERE IS NO NEED FOR IMPORTERS TO SABOTAGE! 
debosky (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #53 on: July 20, 2007, 03:40 AM »

Quote from: denex on July 20, 2007, 01:03 AM
THERE IS NO NEED FOR IMPORTERS TO SABOTAGE! 

WRONG! for Importers to become refinery owners, they need to invest capital over the long run, at least 7-10 years before they can be profitable, on the other hand, importing products and selling involves a cycle of only a couple of months and you make jumbo profits due to govt subsidies and system inefficiencies. who wants to wait 10yrs before building his mansion from the profits in Nigeria today?

Some Nigerians prefer to be traders for the most part than to actually do productive activities here, and it costs more too - labor, maintenance, supplies, and other costs, which are non-existent in a buying and selling case. The truth is, very few of these mega traders such as Dangote and a few others have actually done the much vaunted 'backward integration' we heard so much about in economics class - first trading, then moving into production.

Most of the others have however just stayed stuck on the trading, hence all the hue and cry whenever importation of something was banned by the last govt. Only due to Dangote's foresight and stomach for making tough investments in Nigeria despite obstacles is why I considered him a suitable investor in the refineries, his cement plants, sugar plants and so on are on ground for all to see, when even the multinationals could not do the same.

I still wait to see how this thing will turn out, 50kobo made a good point about Ajaokuta and co, even Eleme Petrochemical was sold, for less than the refineries, and is in my opinion worth a lot more since it was completed much more recently in 1995, yet it went for $200m and is turning out products now.

Our emotional connection to petrol/ refined products blinds us and prevents us from making good decisions.

we are importing 100% refined products now, instead of give them to new people to manage, the NNPC wants to continue to do Turn Around Maintenance indefinitely, and continue their slipshod practices there as well.

watchung
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #54 on: July 20, 2007, 04:24 AM »

I couldn't agree more with those in support of selling off these wastes. When will people in Nigeria ever realize that the govt has no place in running businesses. Na wa oh! Those refineries have been dead for some time now meanwhile they've been doing so called TAM's (Turn Around Maintenance) every now and then and in the process siphoning billions of dollars yet they are producing next to nothing. Those refineries were actually offered to Multi-National Co's and they all refused to touch them with light pole yet a NIGERIAN tries to buy and fix them and all the hoopla. People get serious mental problem for that country and they're really slowing down the potential of that Nigeria. Very sad.
chidichris (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #55 on: July 20, 2007, 06:58 AM »

foolish country with the sacrificial lamb called ribadu has been playing on our intellegence.
the only notable and punishable offence in nigeria is anyone committed by orji uzor kalu bcs the young man is outspoken.
the dangotes, adenugas and obasanjos have practically bought nigeria leaving just aso rock as a symbol.
imo state is for sale please let them come and buy.
the pdp shld relief obj of the bot chairman and relief ribadu of his position so that this dull baby( yar adua) will form his own hit men and in this manner obj may face probe alongside his vice.
one shld be asking what has happened to atiku and obj corruption allegations as it is, atiku is in negotiation with pdp as the name of the game is drop your pettitions and be a free man.
what a fucking country and even most of us will be jubilating over the arrest of kalu while the national thieves are still decission makers in our country.
okei (m)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #56 on: July 20, 2007, 07:07 AM »

They should go and build their own refineries and compete with government.
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #57 on: July 20, 2007, 08:28 AM »

@okei

the FGN is not a commercial enterprise.

@debosky

well, let me see how they would sabotage the refineries now that they would be in the hands of shrewd businessmen like themselves. Maybe them go decide to go plant bomb for there. For their own refinery.
Mandora (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #58 on: July 20, 2007, 10:19 AM »

It's music 2 my ears. Why shld we give Dangote our refineries in addition 2 having given 2 sole importer of our rice, sugar, flour, cement, oh least I forget he actually owns a suager refinery so a refinery is arefinery whether its a suagr refinery or an oil refinery.
angel101 (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #59 on: July 20, 2007, 10:41 AM »

@denex

And the worst part is that they didn't even buy all the shares they bought 80%. I wish them luck sha.

here we go again! even the newspaper that reported their pulling out says the bought 51%. haba! which one u dey self. And u come here ranting that u are trying to correct mis information. Na wa o!
denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #60 on: July 20, 2007, 11:10 AM »

@angel101

No mind me jare. I was mistranslating the 80% shares of Dangote and Otedola in Bluestar.
angel101 (f)
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #61 on: July 20, 2007, 11:41 AM »

 Wink
laudate
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #62 on: July 20, 2007, 12:13 PM »

Quote from: watchung on July 20, 2007, 04:24 AM
I couldn't agree more with those in support of selling off these wastes. When will people in Nigeria ever realize that the govt has no place in running businesses. Na wa oh!

How come in other countries, government-owned businesses thrive?

Quote

Without exaggeration, the most important foreign investment in the United States is the British Petroleum Company Ltd.'s Alaskan holdings involving the ownership of almost half of the Trans Alaska Pipeline and more than half of the oil in the rich Prudhoe Bay field containing upwards of 40 percent of the entire nation's proven oil reserves. And, the British government owns roughly 50 percent of British Petroleum.

 https://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/The-British-Petroleum-Company-plc-Company-History.html

http://www.aliciapatterson.org/APF001975/Crowe/Crowe02/Crowe02.html

denex
Re: Dangote, Others Pull Out Of Kaduna, P-harcourt Refineries' Deal.
« #63 on: July 20, 2007, 12:25 PM »

@laudate

the US is currently about the largest economy in the world. Tell me the major Government companies in the USA that are doing very well.
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