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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer I have to give up at this moment trying to convince you to be your brother's keeper no matter what he or she is spiritually inclined to. I've always been my brother's keeper - that's why I warn you guys of the dangerous grounds you have settled yourselves on, and yet not able to defend your convictions from God's WORD. It's easy enough to "give up at this moment" because people who have no answers from God's WORD often give up. As long as its not disturbing the way you eat, sleep or pray, what does it matter to you. The Roman Catholic Church should have applied that same code in the years they persecuted other Christians who refused to swallow their unbiblical tenets. At least the Nigerian constitution provides for freedom of worship of whatever choice you choose. You can rant all day about catholics being idolatory in their form of worship, but it doesnt stop us from beleieving that there is only one true God and his son who died for our sins Jesus Christ. I'm sorry for you, lol. The Nigerian Constitution does not care a hoot about the rants from the Vatican.  Second, the one true God is to be worshipped in spirit and truth (John 4:24), and not in the hoax and facade of Catholicism which we can't find in the Bible. No matter how you guys have tried to cheat behind the counter with the molten images, God condemns that practice in every verse relating to it in the Bible. It doesnt matter whatever perspective or mode of worship we use to honour the lord but we all accept that Jesus christ is our saviour. It matters to the Lord that you don't disobey His WORD and claim to be honouring Him with the very same things (molten images) which He calls "abomination". See again: Deut. 7:25
"The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire:
thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them,
nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein:
for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God."
Deut. 7:26
"Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house,
lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it,
and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing."
Deut. 27:15
"Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image,
an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman,
and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen. " Nor be una talk say na Catholic write the Bible for us? "Catholic wrote the Bible" - na una talk am! Una no dey read wetin una write again? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer What else do you want? Tomorrow we follow your idea and stop " idolizing" according to you, then you bring up another issue until your exhausted and we begin to follow your own creed and form of worship. If the Catholic Church stops idolizing and start following the truth of God's WORD, the better for over 1 billion souls mesmerized by Mariolatry. I have no 'creed' to bend your necks unto; but it's always my aim to discuss God's WORD and never deviate from that sole purpose until we arrive at what God has spoken in His WORD. We are not zombies and we have the right to follow what we believe in, no matter how you criticize, insult, stir up the embers of hate and antagonism that you have created on this forum. If you care to be honest, I've not created hate or antagonism on this Forum. Simply go to the Bible, show us where Protestants are wrong for not praying TO Mary or subjecting our souls to the PAPACY. If Catholics cannot face up to the Bible, what's the point in bearing the facade of 'original' Christianity when the Vatican holds a scepter of disobedience to God's WORD? Please grow up and spread the word and not spread hate. That's precisely what I'm doing - and that's what you need to grow up to: face up to the WORD and drop the tenets you cannot and have not been able to defend from the Bible. The annoying thing is that if you want people to pick holes in your own doctrine or church, why don't you boldly tell us the church you worship in and see what fellow christians that are not members of your church would say! I've boldly said I'm a Protestant. Pick holes with as many sickles as you want - we're here to defend our refusal to pray TO Mary; our refusal to be hypnotized by the PAPACY; our refusal to follow the Vatican's diobedience against God's warning of molten images; and our refusal to bow down to any image! If Protestants are wrong, please show us from the Bible rather than being "annoyed" for not telling you the name of my denomination. i hope your ready for the scrutiny and cross fire, if your dare bold to tell us where you worship. Hehe. . . I never even start to shoot nobody, and Catholics dey tear race! My dear, pilgrim.1 no dey fear una shakara, you hear? You want to turn us to shallow christians that have no respect for religious institutions, plz be my guest and bring it on Ahh, you make a huge mistake. Another reason why I've been reserved about my denomination is so that nobody will come back alleging that I'm seeking to "steal sheep" to our church. Biblical truth is plain for anyone who dares to read the Bible prayerfully. At the end of the day, when God opens their eyes and hearts to His WORD, they of their own accord will seek fellowship with all who call upon the name of the Lord in sincerity and truth. For now, I only offer you the same: "And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified." (Acts 20:32) Your security is in His WORD - and not in the traditions of Catholicism that you can't defend in the Bible. Cheerio.  |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Hi @HOO, The Facts
Firstly Images: Their Use commanded by God – Exodus 25: 18 -21
Further references: Num xxi 8,9 ; Paral xxviii 18,19 ; Ex. Xxxvii 6-9 ; 3Kings vi. 29,31,32 , 3Kings vii 35,36 ; 2Paral. iii 7,10,14
"You shall then make a propitiatory of pure gold, two cubits and a half long, and one and a half cubits wide. Make two cherubim of beaten gold for the two ends of the propitiatory, fastening them so that one cherub springs direct from each end. The cherubim shall have their wings spread out above, covering the propitiatory with them; they shall be turned toward each other, but with their faces looking toward the propitiatory. This propitiatory you shall then place on top of the ark. In the ark itself you are to put the commandments which I will give you”. Nothing new - we've already dealt with the question of images/statues from those references in your quotes. Please scroll up and see them, or quick access to the points by clicking the following links: ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-74061.384.html#msg1465195) ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-74061.384.html#msg1465200) The salient points: NO Jew ever bowed down or prayed TO the Cherubims in Exodus 25:18-21.
No Jew ever bowed down or prayed TO the bronze serpent in Numbers 21:6-9.
The bronze serpent was destroyed in 2 Kings 18:4. Since nobody ever - *prayed TO the serpent *"honoured" the serpent *asked the serpent to "intercede" for them * bowed down to the bronze serpent . . . then from WHERE do Catholics get the idea that that they should do those things above to statues of Mary, statues of the Pope, and statues of other "saints"? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@HOO, Catholicism did not start with the apostles. No historian worth his salt will bare his face in public to weave any story to trace the PAPACY and/or Mariolatry to the apostles and early Christians. Interestingly enough, when many people today speak of the term "Catholic", they assume that it often has to refer to the Roman Catholic Church under the orders of the Vatican with the Pope as the head. Little do they realize that the term "Catholic" has other meanings that have no connections with the Roman Catholic Church. For example, we find another Wikipedia article where this distinction is made: Divergent interpretations of the term "Catholic"
Many individual Christians and Christian denominations consider themselves "catholic" on the basis, in particular, of Apostolic Succession. They fall into four groups: 1. The Western and Eastern Churches of the Roman Catholic Church (often referred to simply as "the Catholic Church"). These understand "Catholic" to involve unity with the Bishop of Rome, and hold that "the one Church of Christ , subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him, although many elements of sanctification and of truth are found outside of its visible structure."
2. Those others that, like the Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Old Catholic, Anglican, and some Lutheran and other denominations, claim unbroken Apostolic Succession from the early Church. Some of these identify themselves as the Catholic Church (the Orthodox Churches), while others see themselves as constituent parts of it (the Old Catholics, Anglicans, and others).
3. Those who claim to be spiritual descendants of the Apostles but have no discernible institutional descent from the historic Church, and normally do not refer to themselves as catholic.
4. Those who have acknowledged a break in Apostolic Succession, but have restored it in order to be in full communion with bodies that have maintained the practice. Examples in this category include the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America and the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada vis-à-vis their Anglican and Old Catholic counterparts. For some confessions listed under category 2, the self-affirmation refers to the belief in the ultimate unity of the universal church under one God and one Saviour, rather than in one visibly unified institution (as with category 1, above). In this usage, catholic is sometimes written with a lower-case "c". The Western Apostles' Creed and Nicene Creed, stating "I believe in, the holy Catholic church, " is thus recited in worship services. Among some denominations in category 3, "Christian" is substituted for "catholic" in order to denote the doctrine that the Christian Church is, at least ideally, undivided. Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholicism#Divergent_interpretations_of_the_term_.22Catholic.22Don't assume that anywhere you read the word "Catholic", it must be referring to the Roman Catholic Church. That is the mistake that many people have made in order to assume that the RCC traces her origin to apostle Peter. If Catholics today are asked to determine the foundation Biblically, they have had nothing to say. Cheers. |
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lawyer (m)
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I read your post and almost wanted to ignore you because i think you have a personal grouse with catholics world wide and i don't think they have actually disturbed you in any way. You want me to defend the catholic faith so that you would continue to pick holes in them. I am tempted to question the protestant faith just the way i used to dismantle them years back, but i have grown up to understand the issues of faith and religion is the basis of war and hatred on this planet when people refuse to be tolerant of other people's views. I don't owe you any explanation and your ilk. You can keep on picking holes all you want but i'll respect the christian faith and whatever denomination you worship in because it's your choice not mine.
I doubt if the pastor is also a religious zealot like you that continues to castigate " so called idolatrors" but i have to tear you apart just the way you derive joy in disrespecting people's faith, no matter how unpleasant it sounds to you.
But for the benefit of doubt, i'll clear some issues for you so you don't end up confusing your self any more:
1. THE POPE: Just the way you have a pastor in your church who leads the congregation and organize the way things should be done, is the same way we have a leader called a pope. I believe you call yours DR, PASTOR, REVEREND or whatever title you choose to call him, ( by the way since you said there is no pope in the bible, where did they write Pastor in the bible as a leader?) and for your information, i don't know of any body that prays to the pope. He is just a man and has no spiritual powers.
2.BOWING DOWN TO MARY: For your information, the catholic church only bows down to the name of Jesus because it's a sacred name. The catholic church decided to honour Mary being the Mother of Jesus. Well if you don't respect and honour your own mother, i don't expect you to understand this particular statement. Mothers generally interceed for their kids when ever there is a crisis or a time of need, so catholics being naturally respectful to family values believe being the mother of Jesus, she is a saint and being the mother of Jesus while on earth would natural interceed on behalf of them in their time of need ( except you only believe that it is only God and Jesus that are in heaven and no one else)
Meanwhile as a protestant, can you tell me why every nook and cranky, you see small mushroom churches with funny names all springing up because the former leaders had disagreements with the head pastor and had to form their own and they willingly promise them all sorts of miracles and they all flock these churches hoping to recieve those miracles? If you want to wow me with those miracles, go to Sabo in yaba and cure all the lepers there instead of stage managing all those phoney miracles and bombarding the airwaves with all your televangelism. The funny thing is that the dumb fucks that follow these so called miracle healers, havent even improved either physically or financial and they donate their meagre earnings to make these televangelists super rich. Maybe the point of this thread if for me to become one and since i know how to bamboozle people and i have the garb of speech, i might be able to own a rocket in 5 years time, shebi all i need to do is shout, dramatize, quote the bible and interprete it in my own words since these dumb fucks don't know the difference between " thee and thou" and probably arrange some scum bags to pretend they have been afflicted by some horrendous disease and touch them with my magic fingers and after falling down, i provoke a great wow or arghhhhhhh! from the crowd and am a millionaire! Please all of you get a life, i might be accused of being an idolatror but at least am not that stupid to fall for a circus show and being fraudulently ripped off by a man like me. The funny thing is that these protestants so beef themselves that it's so amusing to watch. You would hear, ahh! i only go to redeem o, what is my own with chris okotie's church or kai that pastor joshua na jazz man o, my own na matthew oshimolome or whatever his name is, whoses decieving who?, protestants would always be rebels and lack the ability to forge unity and you guys will single handly pull your selves down. The way i see you, you should hop on the bus too and form your own church and probably call the "the church against catholics" i swear, you'll be a billionaire before the year runs out and your fellow protestant fake want to be Jesus Christ re-incarnates would envy you to death
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, I was busy enjoying myself in another thread and would've simply ignored your bloviates above. The simple thing we've been asking all this time still receive no answers from Catholics, and you have the temerity to allege that I've "a personal grouse with catholics world wide". For the record, I was done with this thread much earlier; but since Catholics miss me so much that they'D have nightmares without pilgrim.1, I've decided to hold you guys down on the same Bible you pride yourselves so much on and yet unable to defend your tenets therein. want me to defend the catholic faith so that you would continue to pick holes in them. Nope. I wanted you guys to sit up and grow up. Finito. I am tempted to question the protestant faith just the way i used to dismantle them years back, but i have grown up to understand the issues of faith and religion is the basis of war and hatred on this planet when people refuse to be tolerant of other people's views. I don't owe you any explanation and your ilk. You can keep on picking holes all you want but i'll respect the christian faith and whatever denomination you worship in because it's your choice not mine. Rubbish! If you had any medals at all for "dismantling" the Protestant faith, we would have read you simply and eruditely defended the issues we have asked once and again and up until now received no answers. You've tried to substitute rascality for reasoning by alleging me as a muslim fanatic - and that was supposed to have been your "testimony" for dismantling the Protestant faith? I doubt if the pastor is also a religious zealot like you that continues to castigate " so called idolatrors" but i have to tear you apart just the way you derive joy in disrespecting people's faith, no matter how unpleasant it sounds to you. This is the greatest mistake you will ever make on Nairaland! You don't address pilgrim.1 that way - never! Go and ask those who are still nursing their bruises for attempts, and they will advise you to wise up! But for the benefit of doubt, i'll clear some issues for you so you don't end up confusing your self any more:
1. THE POPE: Just the way you have a pastor in your church who leads the congregation and organize the way things should be done, is the same way we have a leader called a pope. I believe you call yours DR, PASTOR, REVEREND or whatever title you choose to call him,
Point #1 - we don't entitle our leaders as " DR this-and-thus", nor as "Reverend". Certainly we have pastors ( plural); but none of them go about with overblown titles such as "Pope" to shakara anybody. Point #2 - you cannot equate the "Pope" to the same thing as a "pastor" in a local church. The PAPACY assumes what is not taught anywhere in Scripture; and you can't try to make them the same by any stretch of imagination. ( by the way since you said there is no pope in the bible, where did they write Pastor in the bible as a leader?) and for your information, i don't know of any body that prays to the pope. He is just a man and has no spiritual powers. First, don't betray your brethren by saying that the Pope "has no spiritual powers" - they would be sadly disappointed!  Second, don't bring another wahala you can't defend - that is how Catholics have attempted denying that they pray to Mary, until I set them straight! Third, if you'D like to see where "they write Pastor in the Bible as a leader", please see the following: Jeremiah 3:15
"And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" There! 2.BOWING DOWN TO MARY: For your information, the catholic church only bows down to the name of Jesus because it's a sacred name. The catholic church decided to honour Mary being the Mother of Jesus. It's not true. It's clear that Catholics bow down to statues of Mary and the Pope. I have more graphic pictures to show you - but for now let me remind you with the few posted earlier:   Tell me what those children are doing if they are not bowing down to the statue of the Pope? If you keep denying the obvious, you'll only end up disappointing your brethren. I ask you to jeje leave wahala wey you no fit carry O!  Well if you don't respect and honour your own mother, i don't expect you to understand this particular statement. Mothers generally interceed for their kids when ever there is a crisis or a time of need, so catholics being naturally respectful to family values believe being the mother of Jesus, she is a saint and being the mother of Jesus while on earth would natural interceed on behalf of them in their time of need ( except you only believe that it is only God and Jesus that are in heaven and no one else) When Catholics offer this "honour your own mother" in defence of their Mariolatry, I have just two questions for them: - do you ever pray TO your own mother because you want to honour her?
- where in Scripture is Mary said to be the intercessor/mediator for Christians?
I am just laughing at this excuses you guys keep trumpeting every now and then in weak defence of your Mariolatry. The simple thing is this: praying to Mary is directly opposed to God's WORD. The earlier you guys come to understand that, the better for you. Meanwhile as a protestant, can you tell me why every nook and cranky, you see small mushroom churches with funny names all springing up because the former leaders had disagreements with the head pastor and had to form their own and they willingly promise them all sorts of miracles and they all flock these churches hoping to recieve those miracles? I'm sorry, I can't tell you WHY that is happening - because I didn't send them. For all I know, they're fulfilling prophecies in the NT (e.g., Acts 20:20-30); but everyone will answer to God. It doesn't then mean that the Catholic Church has had no experience of funny names and diagreements between their leaders either. If you want to wow me with those miracles, go to Sabo in yaba and cure all the lepers there instead of stage managing all those phoney miracles and bombarding the airwaves with all your televangelism. I see you're beginning to get desperate. Wetin happen to the Catholic Church? Miracle don finish for una convent? The funny thing is that the dumb fucks that follow these so called miracle healers, havent even improved either physically or financial and they donate their meagre earnings to make these televangelists super rich. Maybe the point of this thread if for me to become one and since i know how to bamboozle people and i have the garb of speech, i might be able to own a rocket in 5 years time, shebi all i need to do is shout, dramatize, quote the bible and interprete it in my own words since these dumb fucks don't know the difference between " thee and thou" and probably arrange some scum bags to pretend they have been afflicted by some horrendous disease and touch them with my magic fingers and after falling down, i provoke a great wow or arghhhhhhh! from the crowd and am a millionaire! Your frantic rehearsals are not bad! Applause!! All the language and gestures and cues as highlighted are apt for the Catholic dramatist you are! Carry go. Please all of you get a life, i might be accused of being an idolatror but at least am not that stupid to fall for a circus show and being fraudulently ripped off by a man like me. The funny thing is that these protestants so beef themselves that it's so amusing to watch. You would hear, ahh! i only go to redeem o, what is my own with chris okotie's church or kai that pastor joshua na jazz man o, my own na matthew oshimolome or whatever his name is, whoses decieving who?, Bros, I no fit laugh! Abeg send me your number make I hear your voice. . . you're sooooo funny! protestants would always be rebels and lack the ability to forge unity and you guys will single handly pull your selves down. The way i see you, you should hop on the bus too and form your own church and probably call the "the church against catholics" i swear, you'll be a billionaire before the year runs out and your fellow protestant fake want to be Jesus Christ re-incarnates would envy you to death First, thank you for the highlights: "protestants would always be rebels" - we know from time that not all Catholics use such deviant lingo to dialogue with people. Second, you miss the whole point, mr lawyer! If you think I'm clamouring for anyone to be envious of me, you really miss the whole point. I've taken a stand to share God's WORD without the shakara you've just posted, and who would envy me for pointing you guys to Biblical truths you don't want to ever receive? Lol, lawyer. . . I've just teased you. Call your best apologists and borrow him/her or them some towels to dry their eyes when I begin to walk them through your own Bible. For now, adios! |
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Ndipe (m)
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"Nightmares without pilgrim.1"? You are going overboard@pilgrim, please refrain from that.
@Lawyer, unless you can show us a verse in the Holy Bible, which should be the Final Authority on our worship of the Supreme Being, the Creator of Heaven and Earth, where it is written that Mary serves as an intercessor between Mankind and God, then it is totally wrong and blasphemous to acknowledge that she serves as some sort of mediator for us. Lets not follow man made rules, but commandments ordained by God. Jesus Christ has Rightly stated that No man comes to the Father except through Him. That's the Truth. The Holy Bible corroborates this Truth by this message " And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8 v. 32) Jesus Christ is the Truth, not Mary, and He is the Only One who can set us, mortals free.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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"Nightmares without pilgrim.1"? You are going overboard@pilgrim, please refrain from that. @Ndipe, I apologise, and I heed your advice to refrain. Thanks for always being there to help when I need it most. |
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lawyer (m)
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@lawyer, I was busy enjoying myself in another thread and would've simply ignored your bloviates above. The simple thing we've been asking all this time still receive no answers from Catholics, and you have the temerity to allege that I've "a personal grouse with catholics world wide". For the record, I was done with this thread much earlier; but since Catholics miss me so much that they'D have nightmares without pilgrim.1, I've decided to hold you guys down on the same Bible you pride yourselves so much on and yet unable to defend your tenets therein. Nope. I wanted you guys to sit up and grow up. Finito. For the record, i think its you that should grow up for being a religious zealot and stirring up a thread to insult beliefs that has not harmed you personally in any wayRubbish! If you had any medals at all for "dismantling" the Protestant faith, we would have read you simply and eruditely defended the issues we have asked once and again and up until now received no answers. You've tried to substitute rascality for reasoning by alleging me as a muslim fanatic - and that was supposed to have been your "testimony" for dismantling the Protestant faith? Trust me zealot, below i have dismantled the protestant faith that you have falsely clinged unto. You are a charlant and a zealot and that's all you will ever be until you take the ultimate commandment into your heart which is "love your neighbour as your self" and not castigate your neighbour till your heart desiresThis is the greatest mistake you will ever make on Nairaland! You don't address pilgrim.1 that way - never! Go and ask those who are still nursing their bruises for attempts, and they will advise you to wise up! Tough and daft talk from a professed child of God! Since your already preparing ascerbic words and statements that can rock the bottomless pits of hell and you still have the guts to tell me you are here to save me; well zealot, sorry i mean pilgrim, i can't be listening to an angel and a witch doctor at the same time. Since this is going to be my greatest mistake then, there is no point listening to a self proclaimed christian who has seen the light and has a history of making people "nurse their bruises". If that's what your own bible or church professes then, the next time i come in contact with any of your threads, i better be armed with band aids. One more thing, am shaking in my boots O wise and intelligent saviour wannabe Point #1 - we don't entitle our leaders as " DR this-and-thus", nor as "Reverend". Certainly we have pastors ( plural); but none of them go about with overblown titles such as "Pope" to shakara anybody. Point #2 - you cannot equate the "Pope" to the same thing as a "pastor" in a local church. The PAPACY assumes what is not taught anywhere in Scripture; and you can't try to make them the same by any stretch of imagination.
Of course, once again your right. I guess am the only one on the planet that has heard of an overblown title of the " our leaders" maybe am the only one that has heard of a Dr reverend bishop Idahosa or a pastor being refered to as the owner and founder of a certain church and when the person dies, the lovely wife or favourite son of the "Our leader" takes over. The annoying thing is that most of them are low lifers who havent seen the 4 walls of an ivory tower, come out and dramatise on t.v that you refer to as "our leaders". I guess the next time i meet one, i'll simply address him or her or it or whatever you people wake up sunday morning to go and watch to entertain you as our leader and tell the pope to bow down to him. Have you ever heard of the pope saying he founded the catholic church. JESUS is the only founder of the christian faith and any other person ascribing himself as a church founder is a charlatan. So even if i didnt have a choice on who to believe, it boils down to "the leader and founder of so so so church" and the pope who owns no church but traces it to the rock of christ as his foundation of carrying on that tradition, zealot men, this would be a no brainner any day! . First, don't betray your brethren by saying that the Pope "has no spiritual powers" - they would be sadly disappointed! I wont betray them because i don't think i have seen the pope on the 700 club performing a miracle. Maybe it's you that shouldn't betray your brethren and kindreds counting on you to show me the magics of the world. I'll gladly pay top dollar to see a live miracle, only clause is,when am bored please bring david Blaine or david copperfield to complement the magical actsThird, if you'D like to see where "they write Pastor in the Bible as a leader", please see the following: Jeremiah 3:15
"And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."
Ephesians 4:11
"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ" There! Here i have to commend you for actually pinpointing the exact quotes from the bible. Your a genius and I am bowing at your feeting oh mighty scripture extractor!. But am compelled to question whether you actually pulled it out of the internet or your brain is the Encarta of the bible or wait! don't tell me! the only person that knows the bible front and back is the dreaded one, the Anti-christ well help me answer my multiple choice question because right now i feel totally intellectually inferior to my scripture leader and since your madam know all, i would love to be under your extremely superior tutelageIt's not true. It's clear that Catholics bow down to statues of Mary and the Pope. I have more graphic pictures to show you - but for now let me remind you with the few posted earlier: Tell me what those children are doing if they are not bowing down to the statue of the Pope? If you keep denying the obvious, you'll only end up disappointing your brethren. I ask you to jeje leave wahala wey you no fit carry O! Once again zealot your correct and i wont disappoint my own brethren, but wait, which one is worse, going nuts over a lifeless statute or losing your mind by placing your belief in a human being like you as a saviour and healer of sick and the cripple. Someone that is obviously a charlatan and fake wooing people like zombies who throng to large parks and stadiums to see the man of god replicate what jesus did 2000 years ago! He must obviously be twin of JESUS or how else can we explain such likeness in character and powers? Well to refreshen your mind, i also have some zombies pictures to illustrate what the protestant church is all about. When Catholics offer this "honour your own mother" in defence of their Mariolatry, I have just two questions for them: - do you ever pray TO your own mother because you want to honour her?
- where in Scripture is Mary said to be the intercessor/mediator for Christians?
I am just laughing at this excuses you guys keep trumpeting every now and then in weak defence of your Mariolatry. The simple thing is this: praying to Mary is directly opposed to God's WORD. The earlier you guys come to understand that, the better for you. For your information, prayers come in various ways and mode and yes i have prayed in the past for my mum to assist me in my dire needs and she has interceeded on my behalf a countless number of times. Agreed, according to you, its a weak defence of my mariolatry, but at least am proud to call mary my mother. As i said before, i don't expect you to understand. I guess you grew up having parental issues. But not to worry, i understand, it's a protestant rebellious thing as you rightly accepted. No offence. I love my mama, i don't know about you! I'm sorry, I can't tell you WHY that is happening - because I didn't send them. For all I know, they're fulfilling prophecies in the NT (e.g., Acts 20:20-30); but everyone will answer to God. It doesn't then mean that the Catholic Church has had no experience of funny names and diagreements between their leaders either. Of course, how you go understand and know? Shebi your faith and the word of God which you proudly proclaim, is free of defect unlike ours. And by fulfilling FALSE prophecies in the N.T,the protestant faith has proudly carried that banner for years. You guys are too much! We don't know who the fake is or the super fake is. Your all justling for the number one position to decieve people with your power of garb and wonder miracles. Please do me a favour and tell me in future, when next you would be changing your denomination again, since you have a very unstable appetite from switching from one religion to another. Maybe next week you would be paying glowing tributes to buddah, i'll understand because it's your nature. I see you're beginning to get desperate. Wetin happen to the Catholic Church? Miracle don finish for una convent? Haaaa! your hilarious! We don't perform miracles, because that would be a lie. When a miracle occurs, it's by the power of the lord to heal that person and no one catholic would ascribe it to one pope, bishop or catholic faithful unlike you, miracle night is prime time viewing on t.v. To be frank, it's very entertaining and could be struggling with PRISON BREAK for T.V RATINGS.Your frantic rehearsals are not bad! Applause!! All the language and gestures and cues as highlighted are apt for the Catholic dramatist you are! Carry go. Thank you. I appreciate it. Learnt it from watching all those miracle soap operas on TBN or the 700 club. It's a shame, the oscars has been ignoring them all these years. I think am going to write a strongly worded letter to the people at the Oscars. Your leaders deserve to give Denzel Washington a run for his money. And frankly speaking, from your posts, your not too bad yourself. TheBAFTA could be yours for grabs next year, you never know. Probably for the best actress in a religion switching role, from muslim to christian and back and forth, God, it's all so confusing! Please stay in one place for once! At least finish as a Christian this year and next year, you could tell us the gains of being a scientologist. Bros, I no fit laugh! Abeg send me your number make I hear your voice. . . you're sooooo funny! Abeg if na joke, stop am o! Wetin you de write de fear me, talkless of when you use your voice hypnotize me. Na only my bruises i wan de nurse from you o! No turn me to permanent deaf and dumb o! 
First, thank you for the highlights: "protestants would always be rebels" - we know from time that not all Catholics use such deviant lingo to dialogue with people.
Well maybe i shouldn't classify you as part of the group called PEOPLE. It's meant for unstable religion switching zealots. Sorry for not clarifying that earlier onSecond, you miss the whole point, mr lawyer! If you think I'm clamouring for anyone to be envious of me, you really miss the whole point. I've taken a stand to share God's WORD without the shakara you've just posted, and who would envy me for pointing you guys to Biblical truths you don't want to ever receive? Envious of you? Please don't promote your self yet to the position of God. If you wanted to share the word of God responsibly, you wont have started such a malignant thread to offend the sensibility of millions. And since your the almighty wise one that knows the truth which no other catholic knows the so called truth, arent there more sensible ways to drive home your point, rather you chose what has become your hallmark, irritantancy and i don't think such hypocritical truths are worth listening to from you. I can get it from your leaders on the 700 club and be entertained. At least those ones still have an iota of decorum to present their grieviances against the catholic church which we would gladly welcome constructive criticism, but not from unstable zealots. I can imagine when you were a muslim, how arrogant and self assuring you would have been, attacking every known christian. Well once a zealot, forever a zealot. A zebra can't change its spots, so am not worried. Am only concerned about the next religion you would pick up the Gaunlet to defend in future.Lol, lawyer. . . I've just teased you. Call your best apologists and borrow him/her or them some towels to dry their eyes when I begin to walk them through your own Bible. Am finally convinced with this statement. You mos def are the anti-christ! You know your own bible front and back, you know our own bible front and back and am sure you know the Koran like the back of your palms. O boy! I don de fear you! Master I hail o! I go do anything you want, please no just bite me For now, adios! Adios? C'mon am just getting warmed up for you and your apologists. Now to my original post if you hadn't replied such rubbish! The real issue isn't what church a person belongs to, but whether the person individually has Jesus Christ living inside of him or her, if they really have a personal relationship with God. In the Gospel of John, we are told, "to all who received him [referring to Jesus], to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."1 Why do we have to become children of God? Because until then, God is distant. We may know he's there. We may know we are supposed to worship him. We may even know that in times of need, he's the one to pray to. But there is a distance we are aware of, and it is because of our sin. Now, as long as we live and breathe, guess what, we're going to sin. We're going to do things our way instead of God's way. But our sin need not remain a barrier between us and God. [The claim to privileged knowledge is the besetting evil of the protestant churches and it's ever knowing and one track minded spokesmen or should i say women[/b]. This has contributed to their lack of credibility and their speechlessness in dealing with outsiders -- who are in the majority. Anyone who refers here to SELECTED PARTS OF THE BIBLE TO PROVE A POINT is simply doing what the present-day sects also practise. I am forced to conclude that the Protestant Faith is based on faulty and selective Biblical interpretation as well as erroneous reasoning. While Protestants can of course be good Christians, at its heart Protestantism is religious anarchy which will lead many devout souls to perdition. Jesus prayed that we may "all be one"(JN 17:21) and that there may be "one flock, one shepherd" (JN 10:16). I believe that He established a Church against which "the gates of Hell shall not prevail" (MT 16:18). I don't believe Jesus intended for Christianity to be an eternal debating clubWhy is Pentecostalism a danger for Christianity? Well, mainly because I think its distinctives are only tangentially Christian. I think the New Age faith has entered into the church (and by extension society) through Pentecostalism. One could take dozens of individual issues in which Pentecostalism has perverted the Gospel, from Word-Faith to the Prosperity Gospel to the ever crowded national stadium crusades and Blessing to tongues to phony signs and wonders to cultish behavior, but I think the main negative characteristic that covers all the errors is the elevation of the emotions and subjective experience over the mind and over legitimate authority. Historical Christianity, whether Catholic or Protestant, promised man a glorious afterlife if he would have faith in what he couldn't see and live according to God's commandments. Pentecostalism, with its promises of health, wealth, worldly prosperity, miracles and a direct, exciting experience with God Himself, appeals to something very carnal in mankind, which probably explains its incredible growth. The whole process starts with the method of Pentecostal worship, which emphasizes excitement above all, with loud, emotionally manipulative music and loud, emotionally manipulative preachers combining to agitate the listener into a state of emotional frenzy. In such a state, with the added peer pressure of pastor and fellow believers, it is a short step for the baby Pentecostal's mind to click into neutral and to begin "speaking in tongues", a mental process exactly like that engaged in by ancient pagans (very popular at Corinth), modern day spiritualists, voodoo witch doctors and other practitioners of ecstatic religion. From glossolalia, which undoubtedly makes a person feel good, the individual is compelled, like a drug addict, to seek greater and greater subjective religious "experiences" from Slaying in the Spirit, to trances, visions, divination and other mind-altering, emotional experiences which have their parallels in pagan and New Age practices and which can be explained by the mind's proven ability to convince itself of anything. The culmination of such an escalation would seem to be the Vineyard Revivals, typified by the popular pentecostal church along the ibadan express road, in which a whole megachurch congregation were seen rolling around on the floor, screaming, laughing uncontrollably and imitating barnyard animals, and blaming it all on God. I would highly recommend smoking weed to really understand the hypnotic basis of those kinds of manifestations that self proclaimed defenders of the protestant churches would gladly defend. Another problem with such emotional subjectivism is that it makes a person spiritually arrogant and immune to any argument or correction. It is the common belief that once one "receives the Holy Spirit", it is the third Person of the Trinity who is behind every thought, feeling, opinion, prejudice and inclination in the individual's head. It is a common refrain in Pentecostal circles that "God told me" and obviously there is nothing you can say to such a person that will convince them otherwise. This presumption extends so far that the individual's "feeling" trumps even the Bible's authority. I remember asking a Pentecostal pastor how he could justify a service I had attended where he and his church violated every single one of the rules St. Paul laid down for speaking in tongues. (1 Cor 13:22-36) He simply responded that "the Holy Spirit" was guiding them. Obviously, if you haven't had the same "experiences" that they've had, then you're at a lower spiritual level than they are and have no right to question the Holy Spirit's instructions to them. When you're receiving instructions straight from the Holy Spirit, you're your own ultimate authority and have no need for anyone else, let alone the teachers that Jesus left us to ensure we would not be swept away by false doctrines. (Eph 4:11-14) Pentecostalism has little or no time for doctrine or truth. It's all about experience. The low educational and intellectual level of so many, if not most, Pentecostal pastors only exacerbates the problem. In the Pentecostal world, a diploma from a Rhema Bible College correspondence course is enough to set a man up as a "pastor" and "teacher". Often, even that isn't required. This low bar allows too many charlatans, bullies, ignoramuses and heretics into influentia positions of authority especially the ones on Nairaland to quote and unquote all aspects of the bible as if they invented the human Encarta and willing have the guts and authority to put down other forms of worship because according to them, their eyes have seen and it is only them that the lord gave the power to see beyond we lesser spiritual mortals. From the look of things, because they are so righteous and all knowledgable about the defining aspects of the bible, they should be the ones that should take us to the promised paradise. Am suprised you haven't actually revealed your self that your the second saviour we have all being waiting for for thousands of years . Another problem is that the easy belief system makes a person naively credulous about things which are demonstrably false. There has never been a single proven miracle healing or fulfilled prophecy in a Pentecostal church, yet its hundreds of millions of adherents believe that individuals like Benny Hinn or Kim Clement are healing millions of people, predicting the future and even raising the dead. The fact that those two, as well as many other proven charlatans, have not been tarred and feathered and driven from organized religion is a powerful testimony that the Pentecostal belief system requires the abdication of the mind. I can't imagine that Jesus, who abjured us to be as shrewd as serpents (Mt 10:16) really wants that. Since you asked specifically about faith healing, think about what I just said for a moment. In the 100 years that Pentecostalism has been in existence, there has_never_been even one proven miracle healing in a Pentecostal church. All the tales are either unsubstantiated assertions or stories heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. By "proven", I mean that we would have the testimony of an impartial doctor who would show us medical records proving that a certain organic medical condition (i.e. cancer rather than a headache) had suddenly disappeared from a person after the actions of the faith healer. That kind of testimony does not exist, to my knowledge, and I've questioned several self-proclaimed miracle workers. I do believe miracles happen today but only through the work of God-not TBN or the christian network showmen- and I believe they happen relatively rarely. But the thing to remember is that we are not promised health in this world. We should certainly pray for it, but as Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane when He prayed to be spared the crucifixion, "Yet not as I will, but as you will." |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, I was keeping my fingers crossed that you'D call your team together for a fine discourse and try to defend even ONE of the issues we've been asking about Catholicism. But predictably, none of your brethren whom you've let down with your fallacies could help you out; and the only thing left was to again substitute rascality for reason. I don't mind you calling me all sorts - it's often the sign of desperate fellows who display their self-defeat and frustrations at having nothing to intelligently present for their illusions. Glad to know my post worked the miracle of making you stay up all night until nearly daybreak just so you could again exhibit your poorly rehearsed drama. Tough and daft talk from a professed child of God! Since your already preparing ascerbic words and statements that can rock the bottomless pits of hell and you still have the guts to tell me you are here to save me; well zealot, sorry i mean pilgrim, i can't be listening to an angel and a witch doctor at the same time. Since this is going to be my greatest mistake then, there is no point listening to a self proclaimed christian who has seen the light and has a history of making people "nurse their bruises". If that's what your own bible or church professes then, the next time i come in contact with any of your threads, i better be armed with band aids. One more thing, am shaking in my boots O wise and intelligent saviour wannabe I assume that the Bible Catholics "wrote" encourages them to describe others as 'witch doctors' and 'self proclaimed christians', while sobbing on being cautioned about addressing people with your frantic idiosyncrasies? No wahala - I'm used to such stage-frights from your camp. . I'm only just laughing at how desperate you could be, lawyer. Of course, once again your right. I guess am the only one on the planet that has heard of an overblown title of the " our leaders" maybe am the only one that has heard of a Dr reverend bishop Idahosa or a pastor being refered to as the owner and founder of a certain church and when the person dies, the lovely wife or favourite son of the "Our leader" takes over. The annoying thing is that most of them are low lifers who havent seen the 4 walls of an ivory tower, come out and dramatise on t.v that you refer to as "our leaders". I guess the next time i meet one, i'll simply address him or her or it or whatever you people wake up sunday morning to go and watch to entertain you as our leader and tell the pope to bow down to him. Have you ever heard of the pope saying he founded the catholic church. JESUS is the only founder of the christian faith and any other person ascribing himself as a church founder is a charlatan. So even if i didnt have a choice on who to believe, it boils down to "the leader and founder of so so so church" and the pope who owns no church but traces it to the rock of christ as his foundation of carrying on that tradition, zealot men, this would be a no brainner any day! Even more desperation. You're making wild guesses to find out if I belong to Church of God Mission, and just for that drama you'D go on to calumniate Idahosa. This is why I'D just keep laughing at you chaps - keep making guesses at taking blind shots at others: I knew you'D been grovelling to slobber non-Catholics all this while. However, the Pope may not tell you he founded the Catholic Church. No, desperate men are too crafty to tell you the simply truth that would expose them. Making noise about Jesus having founded the Catholic Church does not say anything about Mariolatry and the PAPACY system being Biblical. In simple terms, open your Bible and show us where Jesus Christ asked any one of His disciples to pray TO Mary, or to bow down to molten images of Mary or the Pope. You've tried to deny this initially; but liver fail you to own up to the fact that you can't trace Catholicism to Jesus Christ. Adios? C'mon am just getting warmed up for you and your apologists. Now to my original post if you hadn't replied such rubbish! This is why I keep saying that pilgrim.1 dey her own jeje and you guys will not let her be. Whenever I'm done with this thread, you guys add panic measures to your rehearsals and continue to enetertain your readers where you've colossally failed to provide answers to straightforward questions. The real issue isn't what church a person belongs to, but whether the person individually has Jesus Christ living inside of him or her, if they really have a personal relationship with God. I'm glad you could recognize that - even so, why are Catholics endlessly asking me about what church or denomination I belong to? Talking about the relationship one has with Christ brings us back to the matter of keeping His WORD as revealed in the Bible. One cannot be walking contrary to God's WORD and still claim to be having a healthy relationship with Christ. " And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" (Luke 6:46). In the Gospel of John, we are told, "to all who received him [referring to Jesus], to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God."1 Why do we have to become children of God? Because until then, God is distant. We may know he's there. We may know we are supposed to worship him. We may even know that in times of need, he's the one to pray to. But there is a distance we are aware of, and it is because of our sin. It was the same John who wrote: "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth" (1 John 1:5 & 6). Christians who profess to be having a relationship with Christ are supposed to be keeping His WORD and not mixing in just about anything that promotes their traditions in blind disobedience to what God has said. This is the simple message of the apostle John. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, Now, as long as we live and breathe, guess what, we're going to sin. We're going to do things our way instead of God's way. But our sin need not remain a barrier between us and God. "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. . . " (1 John 2:1)
"Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah." (Psalm 4:4)
"Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." (John 5:14)
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" (Romans 6:1 & 2)
"Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor. 15:34)
The claim to privileged knowledge is the besetting evil of the protestant churches and it's ever knowing and one track minded spokesmen or should i say women. This has contributed to their lack of credibility and their speechlessness in dealing with outsiders -- who are in the majority. Anyone who refers here to SELECTED PARTS OF THE BIBLE TO PROVE A POINT is simply doing what the present-day sects also practise. "Their lack of credibility and speechlessness in dealing with outsiders" - very apt description of Catholics, actually. It is on record that Catholics are always speechless and have not demonstrated the credibility of the things they boast about as being "Biblical" - and you've only managed to sing your own song. I am forced to conclude that the Protestant Faith is based on faulty and selective Biblical interpretation as well as erroneous reasoning. While Protestants can of course be good Christians, at its heart Protestantism is religious anarchy which will lead many devout souls to perdition. Jesus prayed that we may "all be one"(JN 17:21) and that there may be "one flock, one shepherd" (JN 10:16). I believe that He established a Church against which "the gates of Hell shall not prevail" (MT 16:18). I don't believe Jesus intended for Christianity to be an eternal debating club Again, another apt description of Catholicism. Here's a simple multiple test to ascertain how Catholicism is the very system that is opposed to Christ: - Which other church than the Catholic Church takes people to hell under the excuse of "purgatory"?
- Which other church than Catholic Church is crying for "unity" and yet condemning other Churches as not being Christian simply because they refuse to be ruled by the PAPACY?
- Which other church than Catholicism is known in history to have persecuted souls to their death for refusing Catholicism and seeking the simple truth of Jesus Christ in the Bible?
- Which other church than Catholic Church is known to have been on record with its leader (the Pope) as "no longer holding to the Bible"?
- Which other Church than Catholicism has put people to death for having the Bible in their possession?
- Which other church than the Catholic Church has taught things about Mary which they can't find in the Bible?
You can ask for more, and we'll be glad to offer them. Just be honest in picking your choice answers from the multiple test above to reflect on which system Christ actually promised to safegaurd against the gates of hades. Why is Pentecostalism a danger for Christianity? Well, mainly because I think its distinctives are only tangentially Christian. I think the New Age faith has entered into the church (and by extension society) through Pentecostalism. One could take dozens of individual issues in which Pentecostalism has perverted the Gospel, from Word-Faith to the Prosperity Gospel to the ever crowded national stadium crusades and Blessing to tongues to phony signs and wonders to cultish behavior, but I think the main negative characteristic that covers all the errors is the elevation of the emotions and subjective experience over the mind and over legitimate authority. Historical Christianity, whether Catholic or Protestant, promised man a glorious afterlife if he would have faith in what he couldn't see and live according to God's commandments. Pentecostalism, with its promises of health, wealth, worldly prosperity, miracles and a direct, exciting experience with God Himself, appeals to something very carnal in mankind, which probably explains its incredible growth. Again, another wild guess, lol. You might have assumed I belong to the stream of 'Pentecostalism' and 'Prosperity Gospel' with the Word-Faith movement. Sorry, you missed it yet by a million miles! Keep guessing until you've exhausted yourself; but not in one instance would you find me defending the extremes of any group whose practices are not taught in Scripture. Not one. The whole process starts with the method of Pentecostal worship, which emphasizes excitement above all, with loud, emotionally manipulative music and loud, emotionally manipulative preachers combining to agitate the listener into a state of emotional frenzy. In such a state, with the added peer pressure of pastor and fellow believers, it is a short step for the baby Pentecostal's mind to click into neutral and to begin "speaking in tongues", a mental process exactly like that engaged in by ancient pagans (very popular at Corinth), modern day spiritualists, voodoo witch doctors and other practitioners of ecstatic religion. From glossolalia, which undoubtedly makes a person feel good, the individual is compelled, like a drug addict, to seek greater and greater subjective religious "experiences" from Slaying in the Spirit, to trances, visions, divination and other mind-altering, emotional experiences which have their parallels in pagan and New Age practices and which can be explained by the mind's proven ability to convince itself of anything. So, all that up there is what has been giving you sleepness nights? Hehe. . all just to make a wild guess to see where pilgrim.1 belongs? Bros, I no fit laugh this morning! BTW, I applaud the line in your "research" of the mind's proven ability to convince itself of "anything" - probably explains basically how Catholic minds work on their traditions which cannot be found in God's WORD! And we can now applaud you guys for your ability to convince yourselves of "anything" that comes from the Vatican - even if it openly contradicts the Bible! |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, The culmination of such an escalation would seem to be the Vineyard Revivals, typified by the popular pentecostal church along the ibadan express road, in which a whole megachurch congregation were seen rolling around on the floor, screaming, laughing uncontrollably and imitating barnyard animals, and blaming it all on God. I would highly recommend smoking weed to really understand the hypnotic basis of those kinds of manifestations that self proclaimed defenders of the protestant churches would gladly defend. Unfortunately, you travelled far to seek out where exactly I belong! If either of us could find those things mentioned in your quote in Scripture, then we could have a basis for discussion towards that end. But so far, you haven't said anything from Scripture that defends the Catholic system in a sane manner. You want to talk of extreme behaviour, we know how many were committed under the Catholic badge. What I'D hoped to find (after your staying up late until this morning) was something from the Bible to show how your convictions are revealed in the WORD. Some Catholics have made far more serious attempts than the dramatized hilarity you're presenting. Another problem with such emotional subjectivism is that it makes a person spiritually arrogant and immune to any argument or correction. That's apt - in so far as Catholics are the ones refusing to take correction from God's WORD. Go through the thread and others on Catholicism and see how many Catholics are emotionally "convinced" of a system they can't validate from the Bible. Talk of arrogant immunity against correction. . you guys are ace on that! It is the common belief that once one "receives the Holy Spirit", it is the third Person of the Trinity who is behind every thought, feeling, opinion, prejudice and inclination in the individual's head. It is a common refrain in Pentecostal circles that "God told me" and obviously there is nothing you can say to such a person that will convince them otherwise. Did you ever take the time to check the official statements of your Popes? Who was speaking to them? Did they claim to speak for someone other than God? When they release their 'bull', how many Catholics can say anything to convince them otherwise that what the Pope says defies the Word of God? This presumption extends so far that the individual's "feeling" trumps even the Bible's authority. Talk to your Popes - they're the very ones trumping Bible authority and spoon-feeding it to Catholics. I remember asking a Pentecostal pastor how he could justify a service I had attended where he and his church violated every single one of the rules St. Paul laid down for speaking in tongues. (1 Cor 13:22-36) He simply responded that "the Holy Spirit" was guiding them. Obviously, if you haven't had the same "experiences" that they've had, then you're at a lower spiritual level than they are and have no right to question the Holy Spirit's instructions to them. When you're receiving instructions straight from the Holy Spirit, you're your own ultimate authority and have no need for anyone else, let alone [b]the teachers that Jesus left us to ensure we would not be swept away by false doctrines[/b]. (Eph 4:11-14) We're so grateful that Christ raised teachers who could boldly teach His WORD against the false doctrines of Catholicism. If the tenets you guys hold unto are convincingly from the Bible, how come it is taking you forever to point out the text for all to see? We never travel far into the discussion - just a few issues yet, and still no answers? Wey your best apologists? Pentecostalism has little or no time for doctrine or truth. It's all about experience. The low educational and intellectual level of so many, if not most, Pentecostal pastors only exacerbates the problem. In the Pentecostal world, a diploma from a Rhema Bible College correspondence course is enough to set a man up as a "pastor" and "teacher". Often, even that isn't required. This low bar allows too many charlatans, bullies, ignoramuses and heretics into influentia positions of authority especially the ones on Nairaland to quote and unquote all aspects of the bible as if they invented the human Encarta and willing have the guts and authority to put down other forms of worship because according to them, their eyes have seen and it is only them that the lord gave the power to see beyond we lesser spiritual mortals. From the look of things, because they are so righteous and all knowledgable about the defining aspects of the bible, they should be the ones that should take us to the promised paradise. Am suprised you haven't actually revealed your self that your the second saviour we have all being waiting for for thousands of years . Hehe. . . all that bloviate just to prove that Catholicism does not stand up to Biblical integrity, abi? Applause. Ovation!! For the record, it is true that many Pentecostals do not have time for doctrine or Biblical truth - but is it not equally true that Catholics on the Forum have actully demonstrated so convincingly that they have no time for God's WORD and are more interested in the 'bull' from the Vatican? If you chaps had time for truth, have you demonstrated it at all on the Forum other than whimper about your misery of some human Encarta? It doesn't cost that much - just a disciplined heart to prayerfully read God's WORD will enrich your soul.  Another problem is that the easy belief system makes a person naively credulous about things which are demonstrably false. There has never been a single proven miracle healing or fulfilled prophecy in a Pentecostal church, yet its hundreds of millions of adherents believe that individuals like Benny Hinn or Kim Clement are healing millions of people, predicting the future and even raising the dead. The fact that those two, as well as many other proven charlatans, have not been tarred and feathered and driven from organized religion is a powerful testimony that the Pentecostal belief system requires the abdication of the mind. I can't imagine that Jesus, who abjured us to be as shrewd as serpents (Mt 10:16) really wants that. Since you asked specifically about faith healing, think about what I just said for a moment. In the 100 years that Pentecostalism has been in existence, there has_never_been even one proven miracle healing in a Pentecostal church. How you come to that conclusion is only typical of Catholics who fear their own duplicity more than the simple Biblical truth being pointed out against the morass of Catholicism. All the tales are either unsubstantiated assertions or stories heard from a friend of a friend of a friend. By "proven", I mean that we would have the testimony of an impartial doctor who would show us medical records proving that a certain organic medical condition (i.e. cancer rather than a headache) had suddenly disappeared from a person after the actions of the faith healer. Have Catholics applied the same rule of investigation for their acclaimed miracles? That kind of testimony does not exist, to my knowledge, and I've questioned several self-proclaimed miracle workers. I do believe miracles happen today but only through the work of God-not TBN or the christian network showmen- and I believe they happen relatively rarely. But the thing to remember is that we are not promised health in this world. We should certainly pray for it, but as Jesus said in the Garden of Gethsemane when He prayed to be spared the crucifixion, "Yet not as I will, but as you will." You see how you create problems for yourself wey nobody send you? How can we pray for something that you are not promised? It is just as praying for salvation but excusing it on the chant that we are not promised that in this world as well! You make me laugh. Just so that you can have time again for another long night assignment, read up the following: - "Wherefore I pray you to take some meat: for this is for your health: for there shall not an hair fall from the head of any of you." (Acts 27:34)
"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." (3 John 1:2)
Have you ever wondered that the apostles would be wishing others what they were not sure would be granted? No wahala. . . prolly that's why some Catholics never come round to having assurance of salvation while on earth; and they have to carry the burden of going to purgatory first before proceeding to heaven with a visa granted by Mary. E no go happen! And the earlier you chaps wake up to that reality, the better for your future! |
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cgift (m)
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Thunder! Clash of the gods; lawyer vs pilgrim.
On a more srious note, lawyer, your appraoch would be taken as an escapist style when you tend to use a question to avoid a question. Slandering petecostalism on a thread which says Re: Roman Catholic Is Not A Church, But A Modernised Way Of Idolatry? aint the best set of responses.
It will be highly appreciated if you can start your grouse with pentecostalism on another thread where we shall be waiting to engage you in a full blown discussion. In the interim, you will need to face boldly, "the accusation levied against you" by "pentencostals" concerning your doctrines as a catholic including but not limited to what i have summarised here:
1)Who decreed that Mary to be worshipped by the Catholics
2) Was it pope's ingenuity that inserted for her to be called a mediator thereby rendering the cross of Christ of no effect?
3) Who instructed the church authority to include do these things when they are obviously in defiance to what the Holy bible teaches.
4) "Pugratory", is it scriptural ? I havenot seen it in any of the 66 books of the bible. Probably there are other books in the exclusive preserve of the catholics which corroborates that doc trine. If suitable answers cannot be proferred, it would suffice that most practices in the catholic church are man-made. Q.E.D
Pleas lets take this discourse intelliectually and refrain from derogs.
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seskee (f)
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@locoman and to u all who still sit to criticise other denominations,have u ever stopped to ask yourself what your life actually depicts,does it depict Christ himself because the Christ i know did not criticise but rather came for the sinners.if u assume u do the right thing as the christian u claim to be.listen well Catholicism means oneness,for those who do not understand,Virgin Marz gave birth to your own Personal LORD and SAVIOUR whom Christ himself handed u over when he said and i quote son behold thy mother,mother behold thy son.read your bible well and don't be blinded by whom is doing rite or wrong because you're not in any position to judge but do those things that Christ asked u to which were contained in the ten commandments.this ten commandments was summarrised by Christ into two which ,love your neighbour as yourself and love GOD with all your heart,mind and soul.be amore concerned about this than criticism.remember Christ told peter onto this rock i build my church not rocks or rockses.catholicism dates as far as saint peter himself that same practice has transcende from then till now.nothing has changed and talking about images if its not to be done,why did GOD ask moses to make a serpeent and hang it in a stick whoever that looks at it will not be bitten by the snake or if bitten,will be healed.that same stick saved u and i because the old testament prepared us for the new testament.that same stickChrist died on.do u c the semblance or not.i m born into catholicism we preach the risenChrist and not concern ourselves with who goes to what church or not.read your bible more and do as Christ has directed u.lots of love to you all.
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abbeyboy (m)
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@ viee,
Well, have you read the somewhere in the gospel where Jesus told a parable about wheat and chaff, and that on the day of the harvest, there will be seperation;the wheat for the barn, and the chaff for the fire?
I attend the catholic church because of my parents, and i don't suscribe to certain practices that i will not be able to expantiate on now.However, i believe that most churches either orthodox or protestant, have various forms of idolatry.
The key to liberation is to follow what the Bible says and your convictions.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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I attend the catholic church because of my parents, and i don't suscribe to certain practices that i will not be able to expantiate on now.
There. I've often said that I know it's not all Catholics (or those who attend the Catholic Church) that subscribe to everything Catholicism teaches. Thanks for being honest. The key to liberation is to follow what the Bible says and your convictions. Praise God. Fine summary to the whole issue - follow what the Bible says: Catholic, una hear? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@locoman and to u all who still sit to criticise other denominations,have u ever stopped to ask yourself what your life actually depicts,does it depict Christ himself because the Christ i know did not criticise but rather came for the sinners. Lol, you need to know Christ some more. Let me show you the Christ I know when He encountered those peddling false teaching. You may not call it "criticizing", but label it anyhow it helps you understand the scenario: Matthew 23:14 -- "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation."
Matthew 23:16 -- "Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!"
Luke 11:43 -- "Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets."
Luke 11:46 -- "And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers."
Mark 7:6-7 -- "He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men." Do you want to now adjust you understanding about the Christ you know? Why is it that when the Vatican castigates other Christians, Catholics said nothing and made no outcries? But the moment non-Catholics want to engage Catholics on any topic, it suddenly becomes a matter of "criticizing"? |
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