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Oby1 (f)
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Do you have time for God at all, it seems d only time you have u use it to source out materials that you will use against the Catholic, but you have gone too far my dear.
Don't invite the wrath of God.
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Oby1 (f)
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I quote Infourmer
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone” (Romans 12:18 NIV)
Did you know there is strength in living at peace? That’s why the Lord commands that we live at peace with those around us. When there’s strife and contention, then the enemy has an open door to move in your life. But when we are at peace with those around us, we are in a position of strength. Being at peace with those around you doesn’t mean you have to agree with everyone. It simply means you are walking in love. It means you are patient and kind, not envious, not boastful. It means you are considerate, kind, and gracious because of what the Lord has done in your heart. If you need peace today, ask the Lord to fill your heart so that you can extend peace to those around you. As you do, you’ll live in a position of strength and walk in the daily blessing the Lord has in store for you!
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Hi @Oby1, Do you have time for God at all, it seems d only time you have u use it to source out materials that you will use against the Catholic, but you have gone too far my dear.
Don't invite the wrath of God. Well, I do have and make time for God in my life. I boast nothing, but you would not suppose that asking Catholic to go back to the Scriptures and leaving so many verses in my discussions are manifestating that I don't have time for God, would you? Second, I don't spend so much time sourcing out material against Catholics (or any other group for that matter). Granted that I still check the links I post just to be sure that they're still active (because it's funny that some links of Catholic websites are deactivated after a while). Besides that, you may wish to confirm that I've made a habit of posting mostly from Catholic websites to show that my posts are not meant to ridicule, but share issues with Catholics. These matters do not take time to come handy - as most of them are links that I've had in a long while in my fav folder.  |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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I quote Infourmer
"If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone” (Romans 12:18 NIV)
Did you know there is strength in living at peace? That’s why the Lord commands that we live at peace with those around us. That's grand - I saw the quote from Infourmer. However, I simply ask that you think a bit beyond the mere screen; for indeed, while it is to be desired that we strive to live in peace, the Catholic Church has not sought at all to apply that rule. Cheers.  |
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cgift (m)
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Nun Oby1,
Jesus Loves You. Remember, catholicism is not of God. No need to be headstrong in this. Its foolhardy to now know all these things and not run to Jesus Christ for help. I know God is already dealing with you from the inside. He wont stop until he has gotten hold of your spirit to mak you depart from them.
With love.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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So WHERE exactly is Mary in the doctrines of Roman Catholicism?Hi there again. I hope y'all cool today. Some of us would remember that the immediate reaction of Catholics when asked questions about Mariolatry is to disavow such claims in some way. A few examples: * Do Catholics PRAY TO Mary? Initial reaction: ' NO, we do not "pray to" Mary' * Do Catholics worship Mary? Initial reaction: 'NO, we never worship Mary'. And so we should believe them, since Catholics should know better than non-Catholics the things that actuallu appertain to Catholicism. Really? When the facts came in, we no longer hear or read Catholics (at least on this Forum) denying the first and saying that they do not PRAY TO Mary. The case has been proven beyond any reasonable doubts. The only dregs of that discussion is that the practice has been excused under new terms such as "asking her to intercede for us". With that new phrase, they had hoped to license the "Glory to Jesus, honour to Mary" chant. Okay, so just what is meant by " honouring" Mary - and again Catholics have been shy in proffering answers. Which only leaves us asking if this practice of "honouring" Mary goes beyond the ordinary and assumes the role of addressing her with praise, adoration and prayers in the same way as they do to GOD Himself? Let's pause here and wait for an answer from Catholics as to this simple question: WHY do Catholics address MARY in praise, adoration and prayer in exactly the same was they do to GOD Himself?It is not now a matter of trying to deny the obvious - the evidence is humongous. Regards.
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www_pastor
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Much more, the emphasis placed on church buildings by the Roman Catholic Church is also contrary to the teachings of Jesus and his Apostles. God no longer dwell in buildings made with hands.
Our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. The place of the His Presence is in our herats and not in the Chapel. We are to be filled with the Holy Spirit and not the church building. The church building is the place of our meeting for worship not where God lives.
There is no need for images and statues in true christian worship. Our worship is a spiritual exercise and not in some rituals. Counting of beads have pagan origin.
We do not say these things because we hate Catholics, rather because there is a huge disception being sold out in the name of the gospel. So many unsaved people are decieved that they have hope.
This gospel is nothing but Christ and Him Crucified, resurected and ascended.
God bless you all, especially Oby.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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WHY do Catholics address MARY in praise, adoration and prayer in exactly the same was they do to GOD Himself?
Pick up a copy of one of the chants of Catholicism called "The Divine Praises", and you will see that both Mary and Joseph are praised in exactly the same rank as such praises are offered to the Trinity. Doubtful? Well, it's true, and anyone can settle their doubts accessing the 'Divine Praises' ( samples available online) and see for themselves: Blessed be God.
Blessed be His Holy Name.
Blessed be Jesus Christ, true God and true Man.
Blessed be the Name of Jesus.
Blessed be His Most Sacred Heart.
Blessed be His Most Precious Blood.
Blessed be Jesus in the Most Holy Sacrament of the Altar.
Blessed be the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete.
Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary most Holy.
Blessed be her Holy and Immaculate Conception.
Blessed be her Glorious Assumption.
Blessed be the Name of Mary, Virgin and Mother.
Blessed be St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse.
Blessed be God in His Angels and in His Saints. Okay, now gather them in a summary and notice how the highlights above stand out in RCC's placement of Mary and Joseph on the same pedestal in praise as rendered to God: Blessed be God
Blessed be Jesus Christ
Blessed be the Holy Spirit
Blessed be the great Mother of God, Mary
Blessed be Saint JosephIn other words, one is forced to ask Catholics if the "Divine" Praises are meant for the Trinity; or the RCC has added other members to obliterate the concept of the Trinity and instead inched closer towards the contents of the THIRD SECRET of FATIMAH suspected to deify MARY?!? Just in the same way as Catholics chant " Blessed be His Holy Name" so they also place Mary on the same level and chant as well " Blessed be the Name of Mary". Is it any wonder then that the only religious institution in Christendom to have tried tampering with the 1st and 3rd commandments (to have no other gods; and to reverence God's Name) is the Roman Catholic Church? The Vatican does not rest content with preserving God's Name in holiness; but in order to preserve and propagate her heresy of Mariolatry, this system of 'Vatican magic' has placed Mary alongside God Himself! Do you ever wonder that staunch Catholics feel no qualms when they see the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ lampooned? Have you ever wondered why the same Catholics growl when anyone says anything about MARY? Now you are coming close to seeing real Catholicism - it is all a matter of MARIOLATRY and not Biblical Christianity. I pray that Catholics who read these matters carefully ponder them and ask God to open their eyes before it is too late. Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
1 John 5:21 |
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cgift (m)
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C'mon such statements are uncalled for. how can u be certain that your own denomination is founded upon Jesus?
 besides all denominations have their roots in the RCC. they still celebrate christmas on the 25th, and use special oils like the catholics so why would u say the church is wanting.
e be like say you dey dreamland. The growth of the church is phenomenal that alone should prove God is there.
Growth in anyway does not show that God is there. Does the fact that you fail an exam mean that you ar dull? Or does the fact that a thif is getting richer mean that what he is doing is right? Ponder over this please. Infact, let me help you with a few tips on why you have RCC growing: The power is in the Confessional and Purgatory. That pagan doctrine is what gives people a false sense of security that you can sin but in as much as you confess to a priest, you are forgiven. That marks the rush and zeal for confession by the average catholic. Purgatory too is working. At least i know how much you pay to your priest to say either a high or low mass to get the souls of your departed out of purgatory ( a demonic doctrine) which gives a way of scape for a sinner. I wonder how rich you priests and bishops will be now. By the way ask your Bishop which one he belongs to whther na One mass Society or three Mass Society  The Bible is one very queer book that takes a lot to understand and that in itself causes a lot of confusion. what we have are just copies of copies. Thus, one interpretation cannot be said to be final and all others wrong
Just the usual response of a moribund IQ. Why not read the few things yourself and let the Spirit of God take over than rely on some men in the Vatican who have decided to keep your intellect under lock & key and spewing out lies all in the name of religion? |
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iya aje (m)
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all of una just dey waste una time for nothing,RELIGION NA POLITIKS, P E R I O D,the thing just be like PDP,AC,ANNPP,UPN,ETC and na una be the party memberslike obj,anenihatikuawolowoazikwe,rimi,ahmadu ali etc,chikena.
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olabowale (m)
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It is my belief that Catholic or Roman Catholic branch of christianity that the Protestant branch of christianity came out of. If we even suggest that the catholic or orthodox branch of christianity is idolatry, then the Protestant part of christendom will have to be so! The Bible of the protestants, regardles of how many versions and revisions, etc, came out of the catholic Bible. Although, what we have is an incomplete roman catholic Bible, because all the books we deem from it as unnecessary and not devinity worthy!
I often ask myself, not that I can answer it, and no one can answer it; what litmus do we give to those books selected versus the ones that are rejected? Why is the Bible changing, if it is truly the words of God, alone, without the word od prophets, followers of prophets, and others, including angels, et. al? What i read in high school, prior to the class that came immediately after my class, was different. Thats just two years, one after the other, we have two Bibles!
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mrpataki (m)
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It is my belief that Catholic or Roman Catholic branch of christianity that the Protestant branch of christianity came out of. If we even suggest that the catholic or orthodox branch of christianity is idolatry, then the Protestant part of christendom will have to be so! The Bible of the protestants, regardles of how many versions and revisions, etc, came out of the catholic Bible. Although, what we have is an incomplete roman catholic Bible, because all the books we deem from it as unnecessary and not devinity worthy!
I often ask myself, not that I can answer it, and no one can answer it; what litmus do we give to those books selected versus the ones that are rejected? Why is the Bible changing, if it is truly the words of God, alone, without the word od prophets, followers of prophets, and others, including angels, et. al? What i read in high school, prior to the class that came immediately after my class, was different. Thats just two years, one after the other, we have two Bibles!
Is this the same Pa Olabowale?  Where have you been Uncle? Are you still in Islam? How is your business going in the States? |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Dear Olabowale, It is my belief that Catholic or Roman Catholic branch of christianity that the Protestant branch of christianity came out of. I respect your belief; but for all that, you have no clues where Roman Catholicism developed. When you trace the history of the RCC, you would not be so stressed at making assumptions that have no real bearing. If we even suggest that the catholic or orthodox branch of christianity is idolatry, then the Protestant part of christendom will have to be so! That's another assumption that simply has no basis in the core matters of good reasoning based on the facts on ground. How does it make sense that Protestants left the Catholic Church in order to go and continue in the same heresy? Of course, not every branch of Christianity can claim 100% fidelity to the Biblical message - but Evangelicals have never been ashamed to boldly uphold the message of the Bible without the traditions of the Vatican. That is why you will find that Catholics will never accept the 'Sola Scrptura' (Scripture alone) principle - they must seek to add their own traditions, even where it is obvious that they can't defend those heresies. Secondly, I'D like you to remember that Islam is deeply divided into many different sects - over 70 of them - with various strains of beliefs. They all claim the same Qur'an, they all are divided on that same one Qur'an; Muhammad is also a cause for division among them despite the claim that Muslims generally hold the claim that he is their last prophet! Would it then be fair to say that every branch of Islam that produced a prodigal group or sect is also idolatrous - since the things that the majority practise are regarded by other Muslims as heretical?  The Bible of the protestants, regardles of how many versions and revisions, etc, came out of the catholic Bible. Although, what we have is an incomplete roman catholic Bible, because all the books we deem from it as unnecessary and not devinity worthy! Good point, Olabowale. Now carefully R-E-A-D these points: (a) The Torah that Muhammad read and respected in his day are the same Torah that is part of the Bible you're disdaining here. If Muhammad read, kiss, touched and and revered the Torah, what is the basis of your disenchantments with the same Bible?
(b) Not only so, but Muhammad claimed in the Qur'an that Allah himself revealed the torah, the Gospels and the Zebur (Psalms) that have remained unchanged up to this very day! I'm quite familiar with the usual Muslim DENIAL about this - but that is only because you're repeating the duplicity that you have receibed from your apologists who are hiding the truth from you.
(c) If you're still debative and argumentative about the above, then calmly ask yourself WHY Muslims have been trying to "prove" that Muhammad is the prophet spoken of in the Torah (Deuteronomy 18), and the Gospel of John (chapters 14 and 16)? If you can afford to deny these documents and claim that they have become corrupt or lost, what then would you do with the FACT that Allah never made such a claim inthe Qur'an?
(d) I have also asked that your fellows (especially babs787) produce the translation of the re-engineered words such as PERIKLYTOS which they force-read dubiously into the Gospels - and up till now they have cleverly continued to duck my request with more excuses that can drown the Twin Towers.
Please Olabowale, I'm simply clearing the groun for you. But in due course, I might even take you to the next level and show you things that you're least prepared to encounter. Do you have a healthy heart to sustain a high BP? I often ask myself, not that I can answer it, and no one can answer it; what litmus do we give to those books selected versus the ones that are rejected? Why is the Bible changing, if it is truly the words of God, alone, without the word od prophets, followers of prophets, and others, including angels, et. al? What i read in high school, prior to the class that came immediately after my class, was different. Thats just two years, one after the other, we have two Bibles! The Bible is not changing. Only Muslims are making that claim - and I'm still asking you guy where you got that idea from when Allah never claimed such a thing when he claimed that he was the one who revealed the Gospel, the Zebur, and the Torah to the Biblical prophets. If you want to argue weakly on such misinformation that you think could help you, I might as well refer you to the questions I asked babs787 which he hasn't provided any answers to. Regards. |
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cgift (m)
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all of una just dey waste una time for nothing,RELIGION NA POLITIKS, P E R I O D,the thing just be like PDP,AC,ANNPP,UPN,ETC and na una be the party memberslike obj,anenihatikuawolowoazikwe,rimi,ahmadu ali etc,chikena.
e be like say you be catholic iya aje (i hope this your name does not translate literarily to mother of witches?  ) You be witch? That's by the way Christianity is not politics though we know som people that would rather crave for theocracy in this depraved world. I don't think there is any human being can head a theocracy the way God wants it. Its not even possible that in Nigeria we have a theocracy for instance when Jesus has not come. |
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olabowale (m)
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@Pligrim.1: Muhammad (AS) was unlettered, how then he was able to read the Torah? When he even was displeased that Umar bin khattab even referrencedthe Torah, how can you say with straight face pronounced that Muhammad himself read torah? haba!
Is the protestant Bible not from the Roman Cathlic Bible? Which came first between them and which is the derivitive? When Torah, Psalm and Gospel are mentioned in the Al Qur'an, as to be Books from Allah, it was being referred to as the ORIGINAL ONES that came to the prophets, while they were shepherding their communities. But after they left, as a result of death and in the caser of Jesus, being raised up, the later generations began to change it as they penned it to satisfy their own new intentions and needs.
As been said many times, in some portion of the whole Bible, you have what agrees with the Qur'anic premise. So in Suratul saffat, those who set in arrays, Allah the Almighty said that Jesus role in addition of being a prophet to the children of Israel only, he was also to inform tha coming of Ahmad. Ahmad is another name for Prophet Muhammad, (AS).
You see, it is the mercy of Allah that we in Islam can see traces of truth, still as a remnant in the Bible. All of them are in agreement with verse in the Qur'an.
Please get yourself an original Bible. Not from Greek manuscript. Not even what was written, as revised or updated, in the Language of which it was revealed. For Jesus, we are talking of the Good news, in its original revelation , in Aramaic. By the way, my heart is very strong. Alhamdulillah. So take me as high as you can. Obami nbe.
it is very convenient for you to say that the bible is not changing. What you are saying is that every word is in the way it was placed as it was being revealed. please note that jesus himself can not change the revelation given to him. he does not have that permission from his Lord. A proof of this was that he said even a jot from the revelation of Moses (AS), will not be overlooked by him! So I ask you now, what about the laws of Moses and even the covenant of God with Abraham that paul circumvented, what about that one? Eg, dietary law; eating of pig and even circumcission.
please let me have your question. InshaAllah, the answer will come the Book of Al Rahman.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@Pligrim.1: Muhammad (AS) was unlettered, how then he was able to read the Torah? When he even was displeased that Umar bin khattab even referrencedthe Torah, how can you say with straight face pronounced that Muhammad himself read torah? haba!
My dear, don't let your BP send you to a dreadful place yet. Instead of your caterwauls, simply ask and pilgrim.1 will supply the answers. I already said in one of the threads that Muhammad was not illiterate as many Muslims have been led to believe. The rest of your gutter has been taken care of in other threads, so I'm not going to waste your time entertaining you with grounds for more whimpering. Cheers. |
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Farriel (m)
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I'm reading your posts for the first time pilgrim. Impressive, I must say.
Tell me, what church (or is faith?) you worship with.
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olabowale (m)
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But Roman Catholic is the mother of Protestant, isn't? How can a child be saying the
mother is evil, when she looks just like her and has her nature, less a little, without
replacing the vacuum with anything? Is this the case of a recently purchased but
already put into use kettle calling the old and more used pot black? Both are black and
serve the same purpose. Protestant borrowed from Catholic and should not be quick to
badmouth it!
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Hi @Farriel, Thanks for your compliments. However, there's a fundamental reason why I have decided to say nothing about my denomination in debates, other than that I am Christian with an Evangelical leaning. What's more important for me at the end of the day, is the WORD of God above all else. Cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, But Roman Catholic is the mother of Protestant, isn't? How can a child be saying the
mother is evil, when she looks just like her and has her nature, less a little, without replacing the vacuum with anything? Is this the case of a recently purchased but
already put into use kettle calling the old and more used pot black? You have recycled this excuse for so long, and it's about time that I serve you some home truth. Please refresh your memory and understand that the Islam you claim to be following was heavily influenced by Roman Catholic doctrines! I have made this case clear already in pointing out that Muhammad hugely goofed when he supposed that the Trinity comprised the Father, the Son (Jesus) and Mary the mother! It is there in your Qur'an - but the interesting thing is that Muhammad claimed that fallacy as a "revelation" from 'Allah'. Do we then suppose that even his 'allah' did not know the fact that Biblical Christianity never taught what Muhammad wrongly asserted? Why would any sane person suppose such a false assumption to be a divine revelation from 'Allah'? Talking about the mother being evil, we know that Roman Catholicism midwifed Islam - and if the blame of your worry is in any way a matter for notice, then indeed the child that was born from such a midwife is evil indeed! All your hypocritic caterwauls on the Catholic Church from your Islamic furore simply saying the same thing: as long as you keep making such illiterate analogies, just as many times as well we shall have to remind you of the connection between Catholicism and Islam! Both are black and serve the same purpose. Protestant borrowed from Catholic and should not be quick to badmouth it! Catholicism may have its fault; but Islam is even blacker - history testifies to this, and common sense rejects your complaints! Oh, between, do not forget that Muhammad tried to borrow heavily from the Bible. . . unfortunately, he was always reconstructing Biblical narratives in such incoherent manner that it became a concern to some of his companions! On the whole, olabowale, if you really want to know Muhammad's position in Biblical eschatology, please call on me - and I'll only be too glad in my very busy schedule to help you see why Muhammad was a false prophet by the same Torah he pretended to be " confirming". Shalom. |
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lawyer (m)
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@pilgrim I just finished reading this page and i see it's getting uglier by the minute. Now you have shifted momentarily from catholicism to denouncing Islam and claiming Mohammed is a false prophet don't you have any respect for other people's beliefs even if it doesnt go down well with you? My dear, don't let your BP send you to a dreadful place yet. Instead of your caterwauls, simply ask and pilgrim.1 will supply the answers. What does this mean? Are you arrogating yourself the position of the supreme know all in all religious matters? Before you read anything on these threads, you have a million reasons to denounce other denominations as false and conviently ducking to mention what you believe in except using the phrase "Word of God" and you know no right minded religious person would love to take issues against God's words. Apart from that banner that you sing all day, i don't see any other thing that makes your butterflies jump more than to denounce other religions 24/7. Honestly, prior to this thread, i was already giving you a benefit of doubt in terms of how you intend to put your debates into perspectives but i guess a leopard can't change his spots no matter how hard you try. The bloke olawale that you were conversing with, neither insulted you or tried to mock you, but you kept on replying with insultive quips to get on his nerves. That's not a debate but the lowest level of putting across your opinion and it says alot about you in person privately whenever you get into a debate or argument. Before you know it, you will begin to reply this thread by insinuating about the fallacies of catholicsm and mariolatory. While i fought with some catholic members on this thread for giving you the silent treatment, i now understand the reason for it. |
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lawyer (m)
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Before we go further, you'll start posting how the catholics persecuted christians way back and how other catholic nairalanders have been insulting you to make you a victim, but if you look at this page carefully, apart from you and cgift, do you see anyother person trying to justify their arguments or positions with sarcasms, ridicules and insults? And you claim other people have been insulting you, when in fact you instigate them and push them to the limits to make them say words to you that wasnt planned. What brought about statements like " increament of BP, cauterwauls, hypocritical, illiterate and a host of obsence words that should be left for gutterminded people just for you to justify an argument or debate.
I feel really bad replying this thread to you because i thought we had an understanding on the mode of communication especially on these threads. I guess i was wrong. Nobody wins a religious argument because we are not the originators but only trying to educate ourselves and others who care to listen. But maliciously trying to justify a particular section of religion in your favour and failing to remotely accept another person's point of view, leaves a whole lot to be desired about you and your penchant for winner takes all syndrome.
I used to enjoy your posts and counter arguments to see and weigh all sides but now i only have to read them when am in the mood to learn more insults and sarcsam. It is really shameful of you to make such a statement that Mohammed is a false prophet and you can only hide behind your key boards to say such heresy. Am no muslim but i respect other people's views and religion and if you can't find peace within yourself to do likewise, i don't think anybody should take you serious anymore and it leaves a lot to be desired what " Word of God" you are actually canvassing for because you definately do not practice what you preach.
P.S: Catholics and muslims might be idol worshippers to you and tend to twist their religious books according to you but at least we take a stand on something which we are proud to associate with. Why don't you take a que from there and take a stand with what you believe in and leave others to wallow in their own religious ignorance peacefully without these unending recremations? Why is it only you that has all the links to debase catholics? why is it only you that knows everything religious and what is good and bad? Why do you still hide your denomination and take pride in insulting others who have identified themselves with one at least? You once claimed to be a muslim and i can imagine how you hurled insults on christians then before you converted and after you converted, a religion you once grew up with, has now become so venomous to you and am only scared of the day if you somehow leave the christian faith, how brutal you might be in denouncing christianity!
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olabowale (m)
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@Pilgrim.1: Isn't it dishonesty that you are eager to bambooze me, to believing that
the protestant, division and its resulting many subsets, did not have their roots/foundations
from the Catholic division, a form of arthodoxy of the christian religion.
Which came first, the Catholic or protestant? Which group copy its own Bible from the other,
the catholic or the protestant? This is not a Rocket Science material. It is very clear that in
both cases, Catholic is first and it is its Bible, less 6 or 7 Books that the Protestant copy its
own Bible from. It is also very interesting to read from the Qur'an, the statement of Allah,
about Christianity as a whole, concerning their hatred between themselves, by sect divisions:
The Christians Also Broke their Covenant with Allah and the Repercussion of this Behavior
Allah said,
(And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant,) Meaning: `From those who call themselves Christians and followers of `Isa, son of Maryam, while in fact they are not as they claim. We took from them the covenant and pledges that they would follow the Prophet , aid him, honor him and follow his footsteps.' And that they would believe in every Prophet whom Allah sends to the people of the earth. They imitated the Jews and broke the promises and the pledges. This is why Allah said,
(but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection;) Meaning: `We planted enmity and hatred between them, and they will remain like this until the Day of Resurrection.' Indeed, the numerous Christian sects have always been enemies and adversaries of each other, accusing each other of heresy and cursing each other. Each sect among them excommunicates the other sects and does not allow them entrance to their places of worship. The Monarchist sect accuses the Jacobite sect of heresy, and such is the case with the Nestorians and the Arians. Each sect among them will continue to accuse the other of disbelief and heresy in this life and on the Day when the Witnesses will come forth. Allah then said,
(and Allah will inform them of what they used to do.) warning and threatening the Christians because of their lies against Allah and His Messenger and their false claims about Allah, hallowed be He above what they say about Him. The Christians attribute a companion and a son to Allah, while He is the One and Only, the All-Sufficient, Who neither begets nor was He begotten, and there is none like unto Him.
(15. O People of the Scripture! Now has come to you Our Messenger explaining to you much of that which you used to hide from the Scripture and passing over much. Indeed, there has come to you from Allah a light and a plain Book.) (16. Wherewith Allah guides all those who seek His Pleasure to ways of peace, and He brings them out of darkness by His permission unto light and guides them to a straight path.)
This great divide in the Christian religion, itself and their ability to reconcile their differences,
lacking unity, is another surtle miracle from the Qur'an, which bolding declares that the
Christians will never be united in the matters of faith. Some worship, mother and son and God,
Others does not believe that son is important, like the Unitarians. Yet others believe that there
is no son, but then you wonder why they are in the same religion as those who have opposite
opinion. Others have ever more weird position.
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, @pilgrim I just finished reading this page and i see it's getting uglier by the minute. Now you have shifted momentarily from catholicism to denouncing Islam and claiming Muhammad is a false prophet don't you have any respect for other people's beliefs even if it doesnt go down well with you? I've been away from the Forum for a while, but peeping in and seeing your concern, I thought it would be important to set you straight. Islam has no respect for Christ or Christianity - and I can well understand why you have a sympathy for Islam and Muhammad: afterall, I have often made the point that Catholicism and Islam are bedfellows! We all know that it was a Catholic monk (sponsored by the Vatican) who taught Muhammad the false doctrines that eventually made him turn against Christians and sought to kill them whereever they are found! Not far different from what Catholcism did to many innocent souls during the dark years when millions were murdered for simply believing in the Bible minus the Catholic garboil. I do have respect for people and their convictions - but I have zero respect for deception offered as an alternative to God's WORD! What does this mean? Are you arrogating yourself the position of the supreme know all in all religious matters? Before you read anything on these threads, you have a million reasons to denounce other denominations as false and conviently ducking to mention what you believe in except using the phrase "Word of God" and you know no right minded religious person would love to take issues against God's words. Apart from that banner that you sing all day, i don't see any other thing that makes your butterflies jump more than to denounce other religions 24/7. Rubbish! Butterflies do not "jump", and not at any time have I pretended a position of know-it-all! Your caterwauls here are simply an indication of your fears - Catholics are known to turn the WORD of God into something other than what God revealed - and that is why I have refused many times to be detracted into making this a denominational issue! If you have anything to contribute, open your Bible and let's see where Catholics stand - that has been my simple message! Where were you when your Pope was denouncing other Christian denominations? Where were your type when Catholics murdered non-Catholics on the simple "crime" of their not beliving in the heresies spouted by Catholics? If it was not the Catholic Church that sponsored Muhammad into such lunacy to lead millions of souls into perdition, we might have been seeing something different! But to pretend here to be absolutely ignorant of the facts is to hide behind your finger and hope that nobody sees the rest of you! Honestly, prior to this thread, i was already giving you a benefit of doubt in terms of how you intend to put your debates into perspectives but i guess a leopard can't change his spots no matter how hard you try. The bloke olawale that you were conversing with, neither insulted you or tried to mock you, but you kept on replying with insultive quips to get on his nerves. That's not a debate but the lowest level of putting across your opinion and it says alot about you in person privately whenever you get into a debate or argument. Many thanks for your blind observation - that is how legal practitioners mislead many people into their doom! How many times have I pointed out to olabowale to grow up and behave after he insulted the Person of Christ and catsigated Christians with all sorts of sly invectives? You guys are so slow-witted that you refuse to see when they do this - especially when olabowale himself said in the Christian thread that he was being "sarcastic" and I warned him to desist? What nonsense are you here pretending to "observe" when in fact you have only managed to pronounce yourself the blind bat who cannot see the sun from the moon? Before you know it, you will begin to reply this thread by insinuating about the fallacies of catholicsm and mariolatory. While i fought with some catholic members on this thread for giving you the silent treatment, i now understand the reason for it. My premise is simple: Catholicism thrives on the idolatry of Mariolatry - and the simple questions I have asked Catholics have been pretended as "silent treatment" because they have had nothing to show from the Bible that they actually have a basis for their heresies! QED. If you had something more meaningful to contribute, I might well have helped you. But this caterwauls do not score average on the IQ scale. Cheers. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, Before we go further, you'll start posting how the catholics persecuted christians way back and how other catholic nairalanders have been insulting you to make you a victim, but if you look at this page carefully, apart from you and cgift, do you see anyother person trying to justify their arguments or positions with sarcasms, ridicules and insults? And you claim other people have been insulting you, when in fact you instigate them and push them to the limits to make them say words to you that wasnt planned. What brought about statements like " increament of BP, cauterwauls, hypocritical, illiterate and a host of obsence words that should be left for gutterminded people just for you to justify an argument or debate. Please tell me: did you come out of a beer parlour before constructing your statements? I'm just curious. When I enegaged ebos initially in Catholic discussions, I used to teasingly quip: "na my own I dey jeje before people start their wahala!" Soon after we finished off nicely, I had several Catholics come up with less-than-polite remarks against my person. Initially I refused to react, because I often said that insults directed against me personally do not move me - but I would weigh in anytime I observe some "Christians" using bedevilled language against others! Please go back memory lane and read my posts thereto! And as to your confused statements above: do you realize how clownish you get sometimes when you allow inordinate passion becloud your sense of judgement? On the one hand, you claim that no Catholic has replied me in their sob language; but then again you observed that they indeed have said unpleasant things against me because you feel I "instigated" them to do so! I'm really sorry for you guys. . . low thinking has done your wits in! I feel really bad replying this thread to you because i thought we had an understanding on the mode of communication especially on these threads. I guess i was wrong. Nobody wins a religious argument because we are not the originators but only trying to educate ourselves and others who care to listen. But maliciously trying to justify a particular section of religion in your favour and failing to remotely accept another person's point of view, leaves a whole lot to be desired about you and your penchant for winner takes all syndrome. Stop whining! I have never assumed the attitude of trying to "win" a debate - and to educate people on issues they otherwise have been misled to believe has been one of my main concerns in this Forum! Indeed we had an understanding - and indeed I enjoyed that level of mature reasoning with ebos! How soon the tide turned when Catholics themselves showed their true colours and put Kodak out of business! Even when I offered ebos to note the attitude of Catholics on the Forum following my entries, all I got from him was a sly approval of their retorts! I used to enjoy your posts and counter arguments to see and weigh all sides but now i only have to read them when am in the mood to learn more insults and sarcsam. Good for you, if that's the reason for your existence. It is really shameful of you to make such a statement that Muhammad is a false prophet and you can only hide behind your key boards to say such heresy. Ahh . . . there! Please could you kindly demonstrate that Muhammad is otherwise than a FALSE prophet from your own Bible? Please simply show me - or better still, leave Catholicism and become a Muslim for all I care! Catholics are unable to clean their poo after setting Muhammad against Jews and Christians - and that is why I boldly take a stand and state the simple fact without mincing words. Islam has no regards WHATSOEVER for Christians and Jews - and until you demonstrate clearly from the Bible that Muhammad was a genuine prophet, please don't even try to humour me any further on this joke! Am no muslim but i respect other people's views and religion and if you can't find peace within yourself to do likewise, i don't think anybody should take you serious anymore and it leaves a lot to be desired what " Word of God" you are actually canvassing for because you definately do not practice what you preach. I don't make any boasts or pretences. The one thing I have sounded out clearly is this: false prophets and deception are simply cousins - and it is not strange that many Muslims see Catholicism as definitive of Biblical Christianity! Where do you suppose Muhammad got his heresy from when he pretended to have received revelation from 'Allah' that the Trinity consisted of the Father, the Son and MARY?!? You ask me to "respect" a deception that (if not for God's grace) would have left me still blinded in the idea that Muhammad was a prophet! Just open your Bible and show me how the same Muhammad for whom you have such pretentious sympathy is actually a prophet of God - among the prophets of the Bible that God revealed Himself unto! P.S: Catholics and muslims might be idol worshippers to you and tend to twist their religious books according to you but at least we take a stand on something which we are proud to associate with. Self-confessed idolaters have always been "proud" of two things: (a) murder everybody who rejects their idolatry (b) continue in the same deception and celebrate their "success" Islam and Catholicism have these two elements through their history - and those are underscored by the highlighted par of your quote above. Why don't you take a que from there and take a stand with what you believe in and leave others to wallow in their own religious ignorance peacefully without these unending recremations? If the Vatican had minded their own business and not misled people to believe they are the vanguard of a peace and tolerance they do not have, I won't be on the Forum pointing out the same deception that you errand boys are now propagating. Why is it only you that has all the links to debase catholics? Wrong - I'm not the "only" person who has offered links to attest the facts in my debates! I do so simply to buttress my points and offer readers the incontrovertible evidence for the FACTS! why is it only you that knows everything religious and what is good and bad? Wrong again! I'm not the "only" person who has such knowledge as I have shared - and I have stated indeed that a few ( ex)Catholics have pointed out a few things which I otherwise took for granted! Why do you still hide your denomination and take pride in insulting others who have identified themselves with one at least? I ahve clearly shared with people who email me about where I worship after ascertaining their were genuine enquirers; and I have consistently let them known that I refuse to state it on the Forum because I refuse to make this a denominational debate. The one premise that I offer is the Bible and what it teaches. You once claimed to be a muslim and i can imagine how you hurled insults on christians then before you converted That is true - and I deeply regret it now. I also as a muslimah insulted Christ - for that is what true Islam is all about (even though Muslims deny it today - as they often deny everything under the sun)! However, in His mercy against my stubborn pride in the deception that held me bound under the influence of the false prophet Muhammad, I am thankful that Jesus saved me and showed me so many things that I had no clues about! I offer no excuses; but just this one point - ask any Muslim who thinks he knows about Christianity, and you're more than 99% sure to read or hear them taking their wrong views from CATHOLICISM. I have pointed out that Muhammad being a false prophet got his idea of the Trinity from the heresy of Catholicism. He also got his idea of Mary from Catholcism. Muslims today try to attack Christians by often arguing that Catholics and Protestants use TWO different Bibles - did you care to find out WHY they use that argument? I also observe that olabowale thinks that Christians broke their "covenant" with 'Allah' - go ask him what "Christians" he is referring to! and after you converted, a religion you once grew up with, has now become so venomous to you and am only scared of the day if you somehow leave the christian faith, how brutal you might be in denouncing christianity! Christianity and Catholicism are NOT the same things - and we know this from the same Bible that we claim to read. "Brutal" is not the word - I am merciless against DECEPTION!! Christ Jesus did not give us a system of deception to pretend as "truth" - and where you want to hold onto that same deception propagated by the Vatican, . . . you definitely will encounter my zero tolerance for such falsehood! If we can simply share the truth and not pretend such falsehood as "okay", you would sooner see many souls delivered from Islam! But like I said, be careful what deception you celebrate - because you and I will be held accountable for whatever issues we have offered people to mislead them from God's WORD! Regards. |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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My dear lawyer, Let me quote you again: The bloke olawale that you were conversing with, neither insulted you or tried to mock you], but you kept on replying with insultive quips to get on his nerves. Okay, I hear. Take a look at one of his recent entries after I posted my replies above: The one who made the entry that I am dissecting below is so confused. It would have been better it that fellow was Schizophrenic; we would at least accept that it is the evil personality that was out to play. Source: ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-96435.288.html#msg1755960) |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@olabowale, @Pilgrim.1: Isn't it dishonesty that you are eager to bambooze me, to believing that
the protestant, division and its resulting many subsets, did not have their roots/foundations from the Catholic division, a form of arthodoxy of the christian religion. I really do not have to repeat myself - as most of your usual bloviates have been answered already in my response to lawyer. The one thing I would like him to observe is the fact I pointed out to him that as Muslims, we often took our ideas about Christianity from CATHOLICISM - forgetting that Catholcism is a departure from BIBLICAL CHRISTIANITY! If you keep arguing about "roots", then by that same argument, then we can understand that Muhammad's fate is even further dented by the same strecth of reasoning. WHY so? Because the 'Allah' that Muhammad propagated in his religion was known as the chief idol of the Arabian peninsula before he entered the idolatrous Kaa'ba!! Today, Muslims are duped into thinking that Abraham built the Kaa'ba, but they have no historic antecedents to proving that fallacy as authentic. Which came first, the Catholic or protestant? Which group copy its own Bible from the other, the catholic or the protestant? This is not a Rocket Science material. It is very clear that in both cases, Catholic is first and it is its Bible, less 6 or 7 Books that the Protestant copy its own Bible from. Which again is the point I have made out in my rejoinder to lawyer's complaints. I hope he could now celebrate the facts in my assertions as regards the connection between Islam and Catholicism - especially on the point that Muslims often use the same argument endlessly against Christians, whereas the same Muslims often forget that Muhammad cannot be found in the Bible (Protestant or Catholic). |
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@lawyer, Here is another observation - just so that you see I have nothing personal against anyone or olabowale, as you should try and be balanced when making observations in future. Let me quote you once again and then offer you a subsequent observation by another discussant about the same olabowale that you were in sympathy for: The bloke olawale that you were conversing with, neither insulted you or tried to mock you], but you kept on replying with insultive quips to get on his nerves. Here is the other discussant's remarks: You know its funny that Olabowale can't answer a simple question nor post a reply without launching a personal attack. That says a lot about his social (or should that be antisocial) frame of mind.
A while ago he embarked on a futile campaign to berate me, but now is guilty of the same thing he accused me of.
Double standards maybe? Source: ( http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-55596.256.html#msg1754822) Dear lawyer, perhaps you should calm down and don't let prejudice reduce your integrity. I wish you guys would be more balanced when playing your games of thinking that Muslims are the "polite" bourgeois that could solicite your empathies. Cheers. |
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lawyer (m)
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Funny enough, i just stumbled unto this thread today and laughed my head off. I was right pilgrim. You don't know how to make a single sentence without resorting to insults. It's the same old tired and overused argument, catholicism is this, pope is that, mary is blah blah blah and i was almost sleeping off on my chair because i know i have read this lines over a million times so there was nothing new there g to do with religion. It's just you. This is how you operate 1. You read something you don't like 2. If offends your sensibilities and you draw up your insult plan 3. You attack the person, his intelligence and his beliefs 4. You walk away. Job done! 5. Wait for the next poster who doesnt concur with you In fact i'll bring each one to out so as to make you understand how insultive you have been of recent: I really do not have to repeat myself - as most of your usual bloviates have been answered already in my response to lawyer Please tell me: did you come out of a beer parlour before constructing your statements? I'm just curious.
And as to your confused statements above: do you realize how clownish you get sometimes when you allow inordinate passion becloud your sense of judgement? I'm really sorry for you guys. . . low thinking has done your wits in!
Self-confessed idolaters have always been "proud" of two things:
(a) murder everybody who rejects their idolatry
(b) continue in the same deception and celebrate their "success"
Islam and Catholicism have these two elements through their history - and those are underscored by the highlighted par of your quote above.
"Brutal" is not the word - I am merciless against DECEPTION!! Rubbish! Butterflies do not "jump", and not at any time have I pretended a position of know-it-all! Your caterwauls here are simply an indication of your fears - Catholics are known to turn the WORD of God into something other than what God revealed - and that is why I have refused many times to be detracted into making this a denominational issue! If you have anything to contribute, open your Bible and let's see where Catholics stand - that has been my simple message!
Where were you when your Pope was denouncing other Christian denominations? Where were your type when Catholics murdered non-Catholics on the simple "crime" of their not beliving in the heresies spouted by Catholics? If it was not the Catholic Church that sponsored Muhammad into such lunacy to lead millions of souls into perdition, we might have been seeing something different! But to pretend here to be absolutely ignorant of the facts is to hide behind your finger and hope that nobody sees the rest of you!
Many thanks for your blind observation - that is how legal practitioners mislead many people into their doom!
But this caterwauls do not score average on the IQ scale.
Those quoted words, summarizes who you are pilgrim. You should give your self a pat on the back as the queen of spewing ascerbic words all in the name of defending God's word. They were written with your own hands and i can safely say that this is the gospel of Pilgrim's "Word of God" and as bad as you potray catholics and muslims alike everyday 24/7, from what i can read, i don't think you offer a veritable alternative for us to choose your "Word of God". No person who prophecises to be attached to the word of God can be this venominous in their choice of words all in the name of God. If this is what your word of God preaches, then it is just as bad as everyother one that you have so brutally condemned. Even if someone hurt you with a foul statement, must you go the whole hog to reply an epistle with words that offend the holy spirit by justifying your beliefs? I said it before that this shows how the real you would be in person. Quick to anger and slow to forgiveness. It's just a total reversal of what the Lord really is. Anyway i don't really have to take you seriously anymore since everytime you convert, your only sign of remorse is to " regret your actions and admit your stubborness and quickly jump the bandwagon to another religion and continue from where you stopped. I can't wait for the day you would turn your back on your "word of God" philosophy and rip to shreds the bible or more specifically your bible. It's your gift and talent and your extremely good at it and as you rightly put it Good for you, if that's the reason for your existence. P:S: If your going to reply and furnish us with more insults and accusations that we readily expect from you, abeg try and change the use of the words bloviates and caterwauls. I believe those words are way past their expiry date in terms of their usage by you. |
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