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debosky (m)
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Its called sacrificial giving, when done in the right spirit for the right purposes, it receives great reward in the sight of God. remember the account in the bible of widow giving her all at the altar, God blesses giving from the heart.
Some people may abuse building funds alright, but to think that is the norm is not right. Those people are accountable to God, just like the rest of us and will get their due rewards if they abuse the position of trust/responsibility given to them.
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$$Rhino
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Seun, by the way, i noticed y change the topic and i kidna prefer this yur choice of topic, so you not a bad guy afterall, aiight come make i hug you.
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$$Rhino
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debousky, that is the buzz word, so wont be better for the pastor to actually lecture people regarding those kind of giving? so that they wont give in vain.
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Kobojunkie
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Rhino, There is really no such thing as GIVING IN VAIN when you give it to God with the INTENTION that it Goes to God , DebosKY made a very solid point there. It is not the people's business what the pastor does with the money as long as all they are required to do is give it to God's work. If the pastor decides to do rubbish with it, it will not STOP GOD from blessing the people who gave the money to his work in the first place. People Need to learn to give and Not constantly try to still keep their hand on what it is they claim to have given SACRIFICIALLY. It is like giving someone a bag and then constantly watching to make sure the person you gave the bag uses carries it everyday. WHen it comes to God, if you do that, your reward will be whatever it is you make plan for that money to be used for. So if you give freely to God, God will give back to you but if you give to the pastor, you get your reward from the pastor and not from God himself.
Anyways, concerning the main topic, if people would read the bible more, you would realize that God NEVER said that building a wonderful cathedral lined with GolD is a sin. It does not save anyone, just the same way that parking your butt in an Ivey league school does not make one a Genius. I would think people with brains would have figured that is how it also works in churches, mosques etc. Just as people spend money on their own houses, I do not think there is anything wrong with spending money on the house of God.
Now trying to decipher the spiritual state of the minds of the people by observing the building is in itself a very ridiculous thing to do. I would say let those who want to attend gold-lined churches with giant cathedrals do so. If you want to do same, you are free but going to a broken down church will not make you a better christian either.
KoboJunkie
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kellorah (f)
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It's NOT going to God though.  |
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kellorah (f)
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The people giving should shine their eyes abeg! Every sunday ''building fund''. I know myself, and I can't fall for THAT.  |
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$$Rhino
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But that is if they are giving to God and if their intention is to give to God, and remember that even the bible says, God loves the cheerful giver, and how many gives without whining and maybe when they get home and realise that account no balance, they will remember and say, if i never paid at chuch oh, my guy, all i am saying is that they have to train and teach people about gving, be4 u pound on them to give and give and give more.
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$$Rhino
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kellorah, will u give to a good cause, like for for rhino to pray for you?
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+osisi
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Its called sacrificial giving, when done in the right spirit for the right purposes, it receives great reward in the sight of God. remember the account in the bible of widow giving her all at the altar, God blesses giving from the heart.
Some people may abuse building funds alright, but to think that is the norm is not right. Those people are accountable to God, just like the rest of us and will get their due rewards if they abuse the position of trust/responsibility given to them.
debosky,I no sabi say you sef get the Spirit of God. nice one! |
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+osisi
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Its good to give to God but the moment anyone asks anyone to give with a credit card or give their bank details for direct debit,people ought to change church.
That is my stand.
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$$Rhino
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osisi, lol. that is a cute one.
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+osisi
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believe it or not,that is now the new trend even amongst Nigerian Churches in the west.
They want the money now now.
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$$Rhino
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osisi, because they need the money to pay bills and to look good and dress nice
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Its good to give to God but the moment anyone asks anyone to give with a credit card or give their bank details for direct debit,people ought to change church.
That is my stand. Precisely.  |
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mashaun
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i believe most of you also go to the "centers" either to hook up with beaultifull babes , to secure contract from members, connection and class. who among you attends baptist/cac/.methodist again. you call these old testament church again ?
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mashaun
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i believe most of you also go to the "centers" either to hook up with beaultifull babes , to secure contract from members, connection and class. who among you attends baptist/cac/.methodist again. you call these old testament church again ?
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Seun (m)
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ow11, the time of solomon, i could understand, because he has the money to build on his own Solomon got his money by taxing his subjects heavily. Whereas modern day pastors collect voluntary offerings. They may be bad, but Solomon was worse than them by far. And God condoned his actions. |
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jayon (m)
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Solomon got his money by taxing his subjects heavily. Whereas modern day pastors collect voluntary offerings. They may be bad, but Solomon was worse than them by far. And God condoned his actions.
seun oo baba i hail ooo but permit me to say what does church have to do with king solomon, a pastor is a sheperd need to be meek and even he doesn't have the power to tell people to Give only The holy spirit is the one who can help, thats all and anyman who gives let him give of free will not composry(Paul epistle to the corinthians) |
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jayon (m)
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Solomon got his money by taxing his subjects heavily. Whereas modern day pastors collect voluntary offerings. They may be bad, but Solomon was worse than them by far. And God condoned his actions.
seun oo baba i hail ooo but permit me to say what does church have to do with king solomon, a pastor is a sheperd need to be meek and even he doesn't have the power to tell people to Give only The holy spirit is the one who can help, thats all and anyman who gives let him give of free will not composry(Paul epistle to the corinthians) |
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Shinatu
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Seun, you sabi your Bible well well!
I was just going to say exactly that, Solomon made people very uncomfortable.
God is the best judge of all these things because He knows the heart of man.
It could be that He condoned what Solomon did because He knew that Solomon genuinely
wanted to glorify God with the Temple.
Some Pastors just want to use people to fulfill their own dreams and they back it up
with scriptures.
Giving to God as far as I am concerned is giving into the Ministry of reconciliation i.e winning souls.
Many Missionaries in remote areas are battling with lack, I know a Missionary family in a village in the East
that had to move out of his accommodation into an uncompleted building because there was no money.
A few of us are just trying to see what we can do to help the situation.
Last year another one in Gombe was being threatened by his landlord until we sent something down
I advice people (if I am worthy to do that because the Holy Spirit is the overall teacher) to think deep(meditate) on their own and know what God actually requires and not allow themselves to be used for selfish desires.
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Kabibi (f)
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@shinatu
you could not have put it better. Magnificent church or not is not even the
issue if what is going on within the church is anit-God. What we need is to understand
what God wants and do that. And from the bible its clear that His heart is for the poor
yet very few churches even remember there are widows, orphans and poor people among
them.
Giving is fine, but give with understanding and do not be manipulated to do so.
When you understand the principles of God in giving, you will give when you know
you should and not through manipulation.
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mellow (m)
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We are all sinners.So I don't see why one sinner
should judge another, do you? because we are all
sinners
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JERRY-08 (m)
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I have listened to most of the comments with so much amusement,especially that of Seun. Some of these comments shows either how hypocrital or ignorant some of us could be. Picture this scenario, Seun,you coming out of your house with the best suit money could buy,together with
your lovely wife and wonderful kids all wonderfully dressed,driving the best car money can buy.From your home that is a eye popping mansion either in Park View estate or wherever.Then going to worship in one bamboo or palm tree sheltered space called a church.I mean how could you in all honesty lift up your hands and praise the God that you claimed blessed you and all your family,while you are either sweating profuesely as a result of lack of fans or ac (not forgetting your journey from an airconditioned house to an airconditioned car to an airconditioned office ). If we are of the opinion that churches should not be beutifully crafted then we have no reason living in beautiful homes.
We humans can be so foolish at times,it is not vanity to spend 100dollars in either buying hamburger or going to the movie,but it is senseless to give 10dollars in church because you think the pastor of the church is after your money.Even if a pastor prays for you does not mean his prayer will be answered but it is only God that gives anwers to prayers.And God only searches your heart to know the intent and purpose of doing whatever you are doing.
If all you nairalanders thinks it is normal or proper for you to live in mansions,drive the best cars,your offices are really beautiful and exotic,and you are really blessed in all your endeavour.You have all it takes to build the lord a good house and you don't want to,then shame on UIf you don't because you don't want to and not because you can't,then i wonder the kind of God you are serving.You see terrorist can afford to take their own life,because it is for a cause they believe in, although it is wrong,i mean we as christians should start believing in this thing called christianity except all the contrary opinions posted here are from our muslims brothers.The issue of a beautiful house for our almighty God should not really be a case for discourse.
I rest my case.
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Orikinla (m)
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Denominationalism is the reason why these so called churches are competing over the magnificence of the edifice of their church building.
The Holy Spirit does not dwell in the house built with hands
But dwells in the heart and soul filled with love.
~ Gladys Eke
We cannot just sit back in the comfort zones of our church buildings and wait for church goers to come and pay lip service and eye service to God every Sunday and other church meeting days.
Jesus Christ never had a permanent residence. He was preaching from place to place.
Remember when he said so.
Jesus said to him, "The foxes have holes and the birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head. ,
Matthew 8:20
The size or the magnificence of the edifice of the church building does not make the church, but the state of mind of the hearts and souls of the true Christians inside the building.
There is no denomination in heaven.
God is not awarding prizes for the magnificence of church buildings.
He said: Obedience is better than sacrifice.
That said, it does not mean you should invite people to fellowship and worship in a house with a leaking roof and dirty environment.
Let the meeting place be simple, neat and safe.
Please, those who are claiming to be Christians should sit down and study Jesus Chirst.
He has said it all.
Nothing is missing.
Hypocrisy and fallacy have destroyed the foundation of the church.
Anyone who is not like Christ cannot be a Christian.
And I actually don't spare those fake people.
I will flog them out as Jesus Christ did in Jerusalem.
We must expose all evils and evil doers.
No matter the size or magnificence of the edifice they call their church.
Read Psalm 82.
Christianity is not by force.
If you cannot emulate Jesus Christ.
Please, leave.
Read the whole book of Isaiah and all the gospel of Jesus Christ and nobody and nothing can deceive you.
What we should spend millions on should be the people we minister to.
We must be foolish if we spend $10 million on the building when many members of the church are homeless or poor.
Those Extreme Makeover Home Edition people and Oprah Winfrey are doing charity. And as the Word of God said:
1 Corinthians 13
Love
1. If I speak in the tongues[a] of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.
2. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3. If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames,[b] but have not love, I gain nothing.
4.Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.
5. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.
6. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.
7. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
8. Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
9. For we know in part and we prophesy in part,
10. but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.
11. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.
12. Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.
13. And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.
True Christianity is defined in Charity and not in cheating, lying, back-biting, gossiping, slander, greediness, wickedness, stealing and other evils and sins.
Those who commit such evils and sins are not Christians and should not be called Christians, no matter the colour, shape or size of their masquerade called church.
God bless you in the Holy Name of Jesus Christ.
Finis.
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eko4show (m)
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Let us balance issues here.
Under Solomon's dispensation, God "needed" to dwell in a house or temple. You will recall that when the glory of God descended into the temple ( the holies of holy precisely), only the preist could go in and do the usual "abracadabra" even at his peril. Some of the Priests may have have lost their lives and that explains why they had a long rope around their waist and tingling bells around their ankles.
the new testament has urshered in a new dispensation however. The concept of the new testament Church is completely different to what obtains in the old tesstament. God now dwells in the heart of men , which is the body of Christ, and not in buildings or churches.
Much as i do not frown at a magnificient worship centres called Churches, i absolutely abhor the misplacement of priorities of some of our christain leaders
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Orikinla (m)
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Let us balance issues here.
Under Solomon's dispensation, God "needed" to dwell in a house or temple. You will recall that when the glory of God descended into the temple ( the holies of holy precisely), only the preist could go in and do the usual "abracadabra" even at his peril. Some of the Priests may have have lost their lives and that explains why they had a long rope around their waist and tingling bells around their ankles.
the new testament has urshered in a new dispensation however. The concept of the new testament Church is completely different to what obtains in the old tesstament. God now dwells in the heart of men , which is the body of Christ, and not in buildings or churches.
Much as i do not frown at a magnificient worship centres called Churches, i absolutely abhor the misplacement of priorities of some of our christain leaders
Perfectly said. |
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emyy200
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@ Rhino
You hv no morale justice 2 raise this topic.
You are d one that attack any strict-religious opinion made on nairaland. Am sure u aren't a true christian, so what's ur business with God and his church.
@Rhino & all
What do we take God for? I've not seen any topic complaining of skycrapers, fabulous & stupendous building all around. N628 Million was spent just 2 renovate already mansion-like building and no body complained in nairaland. What's ur qualms with God's house looking magnificient? Yes Pastors being blamed of extorting money from members in d name of such building, that is a different issue. Is none of our business then, is left for such pastors and God. On such issues, the bible says DON'T JUDGE. By d way, u critics of pastors, have any pastor told u how and how much he extorted from his members? Listen when I give offering or any donation in d church am giving 2 God, my biz is 2 put d money there, how the money is being utilised is not my biz. Even if the pastor ate d money himself, am sure God will still bless me 4 giving in his name.
Solomon built d best structure in the whole world then 4 God's house, even more magnificient and much more expensive than his own house (remember Solomon was d world's richest man then).
So bros and sis let's be careful on how we sound critical 2 anything about God. Am sure if i raise topic on WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE WEARING TROUSERS, a million and one people will attatck, insult and almost kill me 4 that, but see d influx of critical replies coming 2 this topic.
And God is against women on trousers, yet i would be stoned 2 death 4 saying it here, while am sure God is not against expensive building and most are against it here.
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solatunde (f)
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The bible says looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith, so i wonder when people are using Pastors' lives as a yardstick, anyway, who are you to judge them, leave them to God to do that, everyone will be accountable for his live on earth on the last day
Nobody has ever complained about beautiful edificies, mansions all over the world, 5 Star hotels, so why the fuse about expensive churches.
If mortal men know how to build giant edifices and cannot sleep in more than one room a night, so why the querry or memo on church buildings, anything wrong in that. If you are asked to contribute towards a church building project and for goodness sake you feel otherwise, please don't give because you have chosen not to be blessed. SIMPLE!
I will rather worship my GOD in a beautiful place than in a filthy environment, afterall, the bible says cleanliness is next to Godliness.
This is a call to all believers in the house to continue to pray for the atheist/unbelievers on Nairaland, that their souls be saved from the pit of hell on the last day.
MY OPINION PLEASE!
God bless us all.
SHALOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JERRY-08 (m)
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@Orikinla
You have clealy demostrated your ignorance about the bible you claim your know and read.It is not just enough for one to come and quote scripture when the meaning of the scripture is not clear to UWho told you u have to go russia before you can change the heart of the russians.have you not heard about the internet ministry.If we have to do the things Jesus did the same way,then the scripture that the Jesus said greater things we are going to do with when the Holy Ghost come upon us would be of no effect.If Jesus were to exist in this modern day personally,he would definitely ride the best cars,live in the best house because i mean he is the lord of everything.
@solatunde and emmy200
God bless both of you from separating yourselves from these people whose eyes and minds are twisted including Seun.
We should stop whipping unnecessary sentiment for the poor,poverty is a state of mind.The reason a lot of people are poor is because they are always looking for someone to give them something,forgetting that if that someone did not work hard he would not have that something to give out.A real christian has no business being poor,if you are a poor person who is claiming to be a christian try following this tips am about to give and watch your life take a turn.
Always read your bible and believe whatever God says he will do,he will
Give your best at any point in time,i mean money,time,love etc to the things of God.
don't look out for man to help you but God,and God will definitely send the man along.
don't think negative though,let your thought at all times be of positive ,nice and good things.
And most importantly do not blaspheme.
You don't have to work hard to be rich,always remember that it is God that gives us power to become wealthy.Any wealth that is not genuinely from God does not last the test of time.Go and find out and you will agree with me.
Kabish
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ow11 (m)
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Solomon built d best structure in the whole world then 4 God's house, even more magnificient and much more expensive than his own house (remember Solomon was d world's richest man then).
So bros and sis let's be careful on how we sound critical 2 anything about God. Am sure if i raise topic on WOMEN SHOULD NOT BE WEARING TROUSERS, a million and one people will attatck, insult and almost kill me 4 that, but see d influx of critical replies coming 2 this topic.
And God is against women on trousers, yet i would be stoned 2 death 4 saying it here, while am sure God is not against expensive building and most are against it here.
from your quote above, you clearly don't read your bible properly. Solomon's palace was BIGGER and MORE EXPENSIVE than the temple. Please define the word trousers and how women shouldnt wear it? I don't think if i give you a female trouser you'll wear ( assuming you are a man ) comparing rogue politicians to '' Men of God'' is not right. the politicians are rogues and have a right to steal becuase thats what they are but men of God have no right to use their egos as driving forces to milk their memebers of their hard earned money! The pastors have clearly lost it and most of their members don't know and attribute every good thing that happens to them as a result of their giving forgetting that even those who don't give still get blessings. I'll continue to give to God, afterall Jesus said helping those in need is helping me. so i will continue to help those in need not overtly dressed orators who may not even go to heaven. I cannot allow myself to be used by someone to satisfy his own ego! |
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FemiD (m)
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Although I am not one that can be described as a bible efiko but I will just want to make some brief comments on some of the loud contributions made so far.
Solomon: The Bible record of Solomon has been well punctuated with a lot of extremeness; the wives, money, buildings etc. It will not be out of place to actually describe him as a lunatic, little wonder he asked for wisdom which is what he obviously lacked. Now shifting back to the centrum of the issue at hand, God was definitely impressed that not even all the wisemen of the world thought it right to give him the kind of honour a lunatic like Solomon did. I do not know about him forcefully taking money, he earned his money, realised it was vanity and gave the best part of it to honour God. I am sure if you wer God you will also be impressed. Imagine if our President who is worth less than a billion decide to single-handedly build a house for God worth say 1/2billion.
Rich men worshipping in posh places: One of the things christianity teaches is humility, if you cannot co-habit with other christians just because they are poor, then I am careful to say that you are not a christian. If the purpose of building beautiful churches is to afford one a good ambience for worshipping, then one is selfish. It will be better if you get to a bamboo church and have compassion that on the people for worshipping under a deplorable condition; and in a bit to help decide to build a house for God that will be comfortable not only for you but for every other person and perhaps identify other churches and repeat the same.
The church definitely does not need a 1million naira christmas tree decoration to preach the gospel neither does it need a 15oC controlled-environment at least not in the face of extreme penury of the people. Let's honour God by putting smiles on the faces of the people.
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