Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?

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Nairaland Forum  |  General Discussion  |  Religion (Moderators: mukina2, A_K_O)  |  Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
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cgift (m)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #96 on: November 16, 2007, 02:42 PM »

You definately have a trademark in compiling piles of rubbish calling them posts. What are all these now?
The debate of Catholicsim was sure more intellectually tasking than this one because thse guys have just lost it! No sound reasoning on their part,

The truth stares yo in the face, yet, because o one 'questions' "allah's" 'prophet' you just swallow it and not give yourself some reasoning. Your blindness is worst than that of a man born without sight and unfortunately, you would not seek a solution!

can't you see you can't defend this absurdity of Mohammad and Allah? How can they tell you to go and drink a camel's urine?

WHAT DO SPIRITS EAT? The jinn or spirits eat dung and bones according to Muhammad (vol. 5, no. 200)! This bit of information is as far out as one can go.

Muhammad would suck in water up his nose and then blow it out because,
'Satan stays in the upper part of the nose all night' (vol. 4, no. 516).

Bad breath means that Allah will not hear your prayers. You may not eat garlic or onions before going to prayers because Allah will not hear you with their smell on your breath. (vol. 1, nos. 812, 813, 814, 815; vol. 7, nos. 362, 363).

Yawning is from Satan according to Muhammad in Hadith no. 509, vol. 4.

Anyone who dares believe that MO was a prophet needs to be checked up mdically obviously.
pilgrim.1 (f)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #97 on: November 16, 2007, 06:58 PM »

@olabowale,

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
@Pligrimage; One is always a product of the enviroment and the nature which one is from. You can conningly hide the truth, as always. But for sure your heart tells you the truth. That is if there is a conscience. You have never been married, I think. For sure, I have. In my choice of women, I use set of elements, which are usually the bases for which I find somebody agreeable with me.

I certainly respect your status as a married man, and I'm genuinely happy for you. However, being a married man or woman does not justify the need to lie - and that is why I would rather not pretend to go against my conscience in order to be agreeable with your views.

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
The reason I do this, is very simple. If a disagreement arises between us, will I be able to stand her, while I am still under some form of anger. For her, I hope it is the same principal that she employs and then decided to marry me, knowing that we are not perfect beings. If a woman simply ask her husband to know if she is fat, and the poor fella is foolish enough to tell the truth, that she is. Go ask somebody, if you do not know, the guy will sure spend the night on the sofa,a different bed or staring at the cold back of his wife.

Lol. . let me share something with you:

   ~ a wise wife will ask for nothing less than an HONEST husband
   whom she can trust at all times!

   ~ a wise husband will preserve his marriage with wisdom
   and HONESTY at all times.

If spouses begin to tell "small lies", they are still lying to each other and living a lie! Heck! What kind of life would result in that marriage? Even in the case of a woman who is worried about her size and shape should not be lied to - that is the least thing she would expect from one who is called her husband! However, a wise husband knows how to first appreciate his wife and shares the truth with her in such a way that she would be happy to do something about it!

Perhaps, this issue of Muslims lying to their wives is not a recent phenomenon (certainly, a man does not have to be a 'Muslim' in order to lie to his wife). However, I remember just one incident recorded in the Hadiths when someone approached Muhammad about this:

   Malik's Muwatta Book 56, Num. 56.7.15
   Malik related to me from Safwan ibn Sulaym that a man asked
   the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace,
   "Can I lie to my wife, Messenger of Allah?" The Messenger of
   Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
   "There is no good in lying." The man said, "Messenger of Allah!
   Shall I make her a promise and tell her?" The Messenger of Allah,
   may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said,
   "It will not be held against you."

Does that explain why many Muslims seek to justify lying to their wives? If that is the case, my little offer here is that they be very careful to not confirm to us that they have well qualified themselves to be the hypocrites that Muhammad warned about:

   Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 48, Number 847:
   Narrated Abu Huraira:
   Allah's Apostle said, "The signs of a hypocrite are three:
      (1) whenever he speaks, he tells a lie,
      (2) whenever he is entrusted, he proves to be dishonest,
      (3) whenever he promises, he breaks his promise.

Could we then say that such is the very same idea you have been seeking to justify all along? I pray not; but it strikes me that a husband such as you described actually fits the 3 signs of a hypocrite highlighted in the hadith above.

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
Aburo, am stopping here because I got to get going. But a word is enough to the wise. If you think you have a good religion, good for you. God Almighty Allah will separate the people of paradise and the rest will be people of hellfire. Please do not come from the later.

Thanks for the advice. Actually, like I hinted somewhere else, I'm safe from the hatman decree of 'Allah' who has promised by an irrevocable ordinance to make every Muslim to enter Hell fire (Sura 19:71). That is why I'm begging that you carefully consider the end before you get there!
pilgrim.1 (f)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #98 on: November 16, 2007, 06:59 PM »

@olabowale,

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
As for Mr. Ali Sina of Nwando fame, Qur'an is for all times. Yet at the end of time, there will still be some knowledge, from it that are not even discovered by man.

I won't be in a hurry to throw that out; for as it is, there's nothing to be discovered in the Qur'an that may outstand anyone, especially because Muslim apologists are fond of trying to force-fit new discoveries into the Qur'an and pretend that nobody knew about it until recently! Grin

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
For example, alif, lam, mim, nun, quf, kaf, etc, in the Qur'an, no one knows the meaning and therefore, the explanation to any one of them. That in itself, explain what Ali Sina does not know. In the future generation, there will be more to knowledge than what is known today. We do not have full knowledge of all things, yet.

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. The late Ahmed Deedat in one of his debates with Dr. Shorosh challenged the latter if he had ever heard of some strange-sounding names mentioned in the Bible! Deedat was very good at using bloviates to ridicule his opponents, and he's very good in ducking intelligent answers! But here you are - doing exactly the same thing in confirming that the Qur'an indeed has some very strange cacophony that not a single Muslim has the faintest idea what they mean!

Ali Sina is not a religious thinker, so one could excuse his lack of knowledge in matters which even Muslims have no clue as regards those things in their Qur'an. I wouldn't like to tease anyone about such names sounding as if someone was coughing; but I beg to highlight that the occurences of such words in the Qur'an that nobody understands, is a clear testimony to the fact of  Muhammad's several personal incoherent ideas.

I realize that that is a very strong allegation to make; but you would please bear in mind that my reason for saying so is that the Qur'an does not claim that "some things" have been left unexplained. Rather, 'Allah' himself claims many times over that everything within the pages of the Qur'an has been fully explained and detailed! As such, there should be no room for the idea that "some" things remain unknown to Muslims!

Let me leave you a few verses from various English translations to sample on this point:

#1.
      Quote
      Sura 6 v 98 - We have explained in detail Our revelations (this Qur'an) for people who understand [Hilali-Khan tr.]

#2.
      Quote
      Sura 6 v 114

      "He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained?" [Pickthall's tr.]

      "He it is Who hath sent unto you the Book, explained in detail." [Yusuf Ali's tr.]

      "He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail." [Hilali-Khan's tr.]

#3.
      Quote
      Sura 7 v 52 - Certainly, We have brought to them a Book (the Qur'an) which We have explained in detail with knowledge, - a guidance and a mercy to a people who believe. [Hilali-Khan's tr.] 

#4.
      Quote
      Sura 11 v 1

      "Alif. Lam. Ra. (This is) a Scripture the revelations whereof are perfected and then expounded. (It cometh) from One Wise, Informed" [Pickthall's tr.]

      "A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail, - from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things)" [Yusuf Ali's tr.] 

#5.
      Quote
      Sura 12 v 111

      "It is no invented story but a confirmation of the existing (Scripture) and a detailed explanation of everything, and a guidance and a mercy for folk who believe." [Pickthall's tr.]

      "It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it, - a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe." [Yusuf Ali's tr.]

      "It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the Allah's existing Books [the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel) and other Scriptures of Allah] and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe." [Hilali-Khan's tr.] 

#6.
      Quote
      Sura 17 v 12

      "and everything have We expounded with a clear expounding" [Pickthall's tr.]

      "all things have We explained in detail" [Yusuf Ali's tr.]

      "And We have explained everything (in detail) with full explanation" [Hilali-Khan's tr.]

Is it not plain from all the above alone that the Qur'an is not a "fully explained" book when NOBODY knows the meaning of "alif, lam, mim, nun, quf, kaf, etc"?!?  Muslims should begin to think issues through quite carefully before they make assertions that are all the more self-contradictory on closer examination.

Quote from: olabowale on November 16, 2007, 12:50 PM
Today, there is a company called Bioscan in Las Vegas, NV, their medical devise can detect so many deseases, even at their earliest sign in the body. It is a device upgraded from NASA's experiments and it is a higher grade of device than retinascan. Nwando, please take note of this.

Even so, how does that peice of information tessellate with the Muslim idea that the Qur'an explains such advances in science? Are we waiting for the next episode of the "showman" Naik Zakir to manufacture one of his professionally meaningless bloviates to fit that one into the Qur'an as well? Grin

♪ Enjoy! Smiley
olabowale (m)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #99 on: November 17, 2007, 04:12 PM »

@Pligrim.1: What I have simply demostrated with Bioscan, since that simple idea is too complex, is simply this, Knowledge is continuous. Discovery ain't stop yet. What is not known today or flatly disagreed upon, because of the available knowledge of the day, may be analysed and then be agreed upon in the future!

I will simply answer your theorem about  the alphabets in the Qur'an  with Verse 7 of the Third Chapter, known as Al-Imran; He it is Who sent down to thee the book; Init are verses basic or foundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book; Others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say; 'We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;' and none will grasp the message except men of understanding.

Pligrim.1, so you see what is explained in the Qur'an, the basic  or foundamental parts, and not the allegoric part, is enough to guide anyone, from before conception to after death! You are seeking the allegorical part, as to want to belittle the persperious book, you have your answer. It is self explanatory.

I encourage you to read suratul Zumar, Chapter 39. Please read it. May God guide your soul.
olabowale (m)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #100 on: November 17, 2007, 04:23 PM »

@Pilgrim.1: If you are a pretty woman, my dear Olayiwola, is 24 years old. Maybe I should start talking to you parents about you being his bride. Then I will remind you when you complain to me as your inlaw, that he was honestly frank about any subject matter that may relate to you. Supposed when you are pregnant and he sincerely tells you that you are unusually overweight. I will simply tell you that you had throw the gauntlet on such and such occasion, hence, you just have to grin and bear it for now.

Obe o  dara lorun. stop and face the truth about life. You know many married women in your own family. Ask any of them. The truth will be told to you, exactly as Muhammad (as), told it, some 14 centuries ago. This is reality and please face it squarely. Abi I lie, Nwando? Your beau will not sleep in the same room with you, if he dare to say something that may even resembling putting you down a notch. demeaning your self worth or your own perception of yourself.
pilgrim.1 (f)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #101 on: November 18, 2007, 01:49 AM »

@olabowale,

Quote from: olabowale on November 17, 2007, 04:23 PM
@Pilgrim.1: If you are a pretty woman, my dear Olayiwola, is 24 years old. Maybe I should start talking to you parents about you being his bride. Then I will remind you when you complain to me as your inlaw, that he was honestly frank about any subject matter that may relate to you. Supposed when you are pregnant and he sincerely tells you that you are unusually overweight. I will simply tell you that you had throw the gauntlet on such and such occasion, hence, you just have to grin and bear it for now.

Hehehe. . . obviously, our dear Olayiwo would have to get his vocabs right if he wishes to date someone like pilgrim.1. There is a world of difference between someone who is "fat", another who is "overweight", and the next who is "pregnant". Grin

Quote from: olabowale on November 17, 2007, 04:23 PM
Obe o dara lorun. stop and face the truth about life. You know many married women in your own family. Ask any of them. The truth will be told to you, exactly as Muhammad (as), told it, some 14 centuries ago. This is reality and please face it squarely. Abi I lie, Nwando? Your beau will not sleep in the same room with you, if he dare to say something that may even resembling putting you down a notch. demeaning your self worth or your own perception of yourself.

Lol. .  there again, na fabu! Grin There is a world of difference between someone putting you down and another honestly appreciating and encouraging you with wisdom as much as he speaks honestly about any matter.
pilgrim.1 (f)
Re: Pilgrims, Did Jesus Read The Bible?
« #102 on: November 18, 2007, 01:55 AM »

@olabowale,

Quote from: olabowale on November 17, 2007, 04:12 PM
@Pligrim.1: What I have simply demostrated with Bioscan, since that simple idea is too complex, is simply this, Knowledge is continuous. Discovery ain't stop yet. What is not known today or flatly disagreed upon, because of the available knowledge of the day, may be analysed and then be agreed upon in the future!

I understand where you're coming from. However, I wonder how many centuries more humanity will have to wait before those letters in the Qur'an are "agreed upon" by the Muslim world.

Quote from: olabowale on November 17, 2007, 04:12 PM
I will simply answer your theorem about the alphabets in the Qur'an with Verse 7 of the Third Chapter, known as Al-Imran; He it is Who sent down to thee the book; Init are verses basic or foundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book; Others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except God. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say; 'We believe in the book; the whole of it is from our Lord;' and none will grasp the message except men of understanding.

Pligrim.1, so you see what is explained in the Qur'an, the basic or foundamental parts, and not the allegoric part, is enough to guide anyone, from before conception to after death! You are seeking the allegorical part, as to want to belittle the persperious book, you have your answer. It is self explanatory.

If I should take your statements at all, then the inference is that you're estabishing the contradiction once again! Grin

FYI, the Qur'an never claims to be explaining the "the basic or foundamental parts" whle leaving some others out. Rather, it clearly  makes the claim that the Qur'an is a FULLY explained book! Both claims are two directly opposite things - and it is either the Qur'an is hugely incosnistent; or Muslims have to ferret another excuse for the obvious.
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