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sage (m)
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guys I'm back
What is wrong with some guys.
Before we end up killing ourselves on this forum, the west DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT want to give any african country any permanent seat on the security council and i will assure u they would scuttle any moves to do that. THe US is already promising to veto any change even though it is determined by the general assembly.The second problem comes from african nations themselves with some north african nations opposing the moves as they feel that it might make them less powerful in africa. They don't want very powerful neighbours
Like i said b/4 even if the very remote possibility of it happening comes to pass, the west would like it to be egypt and south africa( i am not asking u to give me ur misguided patriotism or question mine) i am just giving u the western view of nigeria. Egypt is a friendly nation with the US and south africa is very stable. The west see nigeria as volatile and would not be so keen on nigeria. I am not saying they would not get it, but the probability is as remote as Africa getting a permanent seat on the security council or worse.
4 guys that don't know, Russia and china got permanent seats because of the role that they played in WW2
And i repeat, i am not against somebody who has a better opportunity inother lands taking it up, its life guys and u don't know where u could make it best. It has nothing to do with patriotism
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sage (m)
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i realise the big influence that nigeria has in africa as a whole which is a big plus but it is the views of the western world that matters. If i were assigning permanent seats, i would sure have given nigeria one (my own misguided patriotism  ) but the west has the final say, or so most guys who don't agree would find out. Left with the US. they would want to kick china out. |
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sage (m)
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infact, i have just seen in the news that africa is considering dropping its insistence on 2 seats with veto power becauce they now realise it would never come to pass, but are instead asking 4 2 perm seats without veto power, which is almost the same as the 2 seats that they have alwayz held. What makes the permanent members so powerful is their veto power and without it u r nothing but a temporary member
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Chxta (m)
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4 guys that don't know, Russia and china got permanent seats because of the role that they played in WW2
Erm, that would be the Soviet Union and Nationalist China under Chiang Kai-shek, not Red China under Mao Ze-dong. Get your history straight. As to the rest of your argument, well this is what I think of it: bollocks! |
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Chxta (m)
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infact, i have just seen in the news that africa is considering dropping its insistence on 2 seats with veto power becauce they now realise it would never come to pass, but are instead asking 4 2 perm seats without veto power, which is almost the same as the 2 seats that they have alwayz held. What makes the permanent members so powerful is their veto power and without it you r nothing but a temporary member
Emboldened portion suggests that you just saw this piece of information at about 1630 Lagos time 01 August 2005, sorry, you are giving us old gist: http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/reform/cluster1/2005/0728egyptslams.htm |
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Chxta (m)
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guys I'm back
What is wrong with some guys.
Before we end up killing ourselves on this forum, the west DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT want to give any african country any permanent seat on the security council and i will assure you they would scuttle any moves to do that. THe US is already promising to veto any change even though it is determined by the general assembly.The second problem comes from african nations themselves with some north african nations opposing the moves as they feel that it might make them less powerful in africa. They don't want very powerful neighbours
Like i said b/4 even if the very remote possibility of it happening comes to pass, the west would like it to be egypt and south africa( i am not asking you to give me your misguided patriotism or question mine) i am just giving you the western view of nigeria. Egypt is a friendly nation with the US and south africa is very stable. The west see nigeria as volatile and would not be so keen on nigeria. I am not saying they would not get it, but the probability is as remote as Africa getting a permanent seat on the security council or worse.
4 guys that don't know, Russia and china got permanent seats because of the role that they played in WW2
And i repeat, i am not against somebody who has a better opportunity inother lands taking it up, its life guys and you don't know where you could make it best. It has nothing to do with patriotism
Below is a list of the ships that participated in the anniversary of the Trafalgar battle, undoubtably the most prestigous military naval (there is a difference between merchant and military navies in case you don't know) event of the last 5 decades... Country Ship Name Algeria ANS EL KIRCH Australia HMAS ANZAC Belgium BNS NARCIS BNS WESTDIEP BNS GODETIA Brazil NV CISNE BRANCO Canada HMCS MONTREAL Columbia ARC GLORIA Denmark HDMS ESBERN SNARE Estonia ENS ADMIRAL PITKA Finland FNS POHJANMAA France FS BELLE POULE FS MUTIN FS MEUSE FS CHARLES DE GAULLE FS JEAN BART FS PERLE Germany FGS ASTA FGS SACHSEN FGS DILLINGEN Greece HS HYDRA India INS TARANGINI INS MUMBAI Ireland LE EITHNE Italy NMM AMERIGO VESPUCCI NMM GIULIANO PRINI Indonesia KRI DEWA RUCI Nigeria NNS ARADU Japan JDS KASHIMA JDS MURASAME JDS YUUGIRI Korea (S) ROKS CHUNGMUGONG YI SUN-SHIN ROKS CHUN JEE Latvia LVNS VIRSATIS Lithuania LNS KURSIS Morocco RMN MOHAMMED V Oman RNOV SHABAB OMAN RNOV AL MUA'ZZAR Pakistan PNS MOAWIN PNS TIPPU SULTAN Poland ORP GENERAL TADEUSZ KOSCIUSZKO ORP ISKRA Portugal NRP ALVARES CABRAL NRP SAGRES Romania RNS REGINA MARIA Russia RFS ADMIRAL LEVCHENKO Serbia SMAF JADRAN South Africa SAS DRAKENSBURG Spain SPS PRINCIPE DE ASTURIAS SPS BLAS DE LEZO Turkey TCG ORUCRIES Uruguay ROU CAPITAIN MIRANDA USCG USCG EAGLE US Navy USS SAIPAN This list is an exclusive club of the world's best navies (the notable exceptions being Israel (I can't say why) and Argentina (Falkland memories are still fresh). Attendance at the Trafalgar bi-cential was strictly by invitation, and I don't see Egypt in that list. Does this say something about military capability to both Sage and Pintos? |
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Chxta (m)
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Sorry, before someone says what about China...
China has no navy or air-force per se. What would have been the navy and/or air-force in the Chinese system is part of the Army. Thus you have the People's Liberation Army Air-force, and the People's Liberation Army Navy.
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Chxta (m)
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In case you don't know ( shey I too dey talk  ), naval capability is of utmost importance in warfare, both ancient and modern. Ulyesses, Agamenmon, Ajax, et al beat Hector, Priam, et al at Troy because they came by sea and laid a seige... Darius III lost the Persian Empire to Alexander the Great because of Alexander's ability to use his navy for logistics, an ability that Darius did not have... Mark Anthony lost his share of the Roman Empire to Octavian (later Augustus Caeser) at Actium in what is probably the greatest naval battle before Christ... Let's jump a couple of millenia so I don't bore you... The Confederacy lost the American Civil War because they didn't have a navy capable of lifting the blockade imposed by the Union... The Chinese lost the Opium War to the English because the English had a navy, the Chinese had (?)... Germany lost World War 1 and World War 2 on the Western front because they failed to master the Atlantic... Japan lost the Pacific theatre of World War 2 because they failed to completely anihilate American naval capability at Pearl Harbour... Argentina lost the Falkland War because of British naval mastery in and around the Magellan Straits (as well as logistics that could only have been provided by the Royal Navy)... Closer to home... Egypt lost the Suez War because France and Britain imposed a naval blockade, they (Egypt) wanted to lock the canal, France and Britain said no, the rest is history... Biafra lost the war because Nigeria imposed a blockade from the Bight of Biafra! |
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obong (m)
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I hope that article you posted isnt true about Nigeria's position on veto power. I hope they didnt sabotage the other african nations as suggested by Egypt.
Nice to see our Navy out ther,e but i'm surprised to see Algeria's Navy out there as well.
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Chxta (m)
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The article is true, and I am glad to see our diplomats for once thinking in the interests of the Nigerian nation, and not in the narrow interests of the African continent.
My personal motto when it comes to such issues is Nigeria first! That has been the motto of all the others. It's time we realise that that is the way the world works.
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obong (m)
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Well not exactly. many african states are mere geographical expression and had strong relationship between themselves before colonialism. Its good to maintain those ties. merely focusing on only nigeria isnt good in the long term. The US has a free trade policy with the UK, and is part of NATO. in the west they think very broadly amongst themselves. I like Libya's african focus because really, most african states stand no real chance in the world unless they partner with themselves.
I think Nigeria should lead africa like Russia leads eurasia, i.e. by controlling the region, installing or favoring leaders favorable to its view and making the sorrounding countries dependent on it
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Chxta (m)
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Take a good look at Gadaffi's track record and you'll find that he is interested first in Libya before any other. Yes, African states are (mere) geographical expressions, but these expressions have come to stay, so we should get used to it.
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obong (m)
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They are here to stay (maybe) but they don't have to bind us. Despite the borders in the USA they are hardly barriers ot trade within the states. The US states at one point were like foreign countries. there were only 13 original colonies, then the rest came in
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Chxta (m)
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AU Snubs Nigeria
The African Union has bluntly rejected the Nigeria-led quest to negotiate with the G-4 countries of Germany, Japan, India and Brazil over the demand for veto power in the proposed resolution for the expansion of the United Nations Security Council.
At an emergency summit of the AU in Addis Ababa in Ethiopia attended by more than 40 Heads of State, the AU decided to stick by its demand for veto-wielding permanent members of the UN Council. http://allafrica.com/stories/200508100044.htmlThese [people] don't understand that if they keep insisting on veto power, they will never get anything. Make haste slowly. |
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Hsmpwise (m)
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Well, guys, the world is really moving and the old order is about crumbling! You can imagine what i mean when an agent of imperialism in the person of Tony Blair was reported in the news lately canvassing for reformations in the United Nations to meet the challenges of the 21st century. A major thrust of his suggestions is the enlargement of the Security Council vetoing membership.
Despite all our imperfections, i strongly believe Nigeria deserves a permanent seat - a vetoing one. We have sacrificed a lot in the African continent. Internationally, we are not left behind. And it is no gainsaying that the future portends more challenges and more sacrifices for Nigeria as a nation. We deserve our rightful place in the comity of nations - and this is one way.
Shalom!!
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nilla (f)
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I think nigeria deserves a permanent seat in UN security council because they will be representing this group of people that are not represented - AFRICANS.
I think we deserve it more than any other african country because we will cover the following
- Black Africa
- Muslims
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Chxta (m)
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Wow! Talk about old memories Nilla. . .  |
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nilla (f)
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i just saw this for the first time and decided to post  Someone posted last 2 months too |
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otokx (m)
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@Nilla,
i don't think Nigeria should be giving any seat on the security council be it permanent or temporary as we are still largely an undeveloped society. We should channel our agitations for such things as constant electricity and world class health care and educational facilities. Not to talk of transportation and communication facilities.
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nilla (f)
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Can't we do that and still have a permanent seat in the UN?
I think we can. I think the # of permanent members should be increased. And if increased, we have to have an African representative.
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otokx (m)
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Let us do it first. Africa's interest if any will not be served by having a permanent seat at the security council. Just look at the way Kofi Annan is talking with tongue in cheek over the lebanon - Isreal impasse.
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Chxta (m)
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@Nilla,
i don't think Nigeria should be giving any seat on the security council be it permanent or temporary as we are still largely an undeveloped society. We should channel our agitations for such things as constant electricity and world class health care and educational facilities. Not to talk of transportation and communication facilities.
China was still in the throes of the cultural revolution back in 72. . . |
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otokx (m)
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we have been in the throes of cultural confusion since 1960.
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Chxta (m)
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Why don't you guys ever try to see the positives?
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Chxta (m)
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Otoxx, read through this whole thread. I think the reasoning there is compelling enough for us to give the seat to Naija. . .
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otokx (m)
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I think IRAN is better off with a permanent seat than NIGERIA unless the UN wants permanent DARKNESS.
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nilla (f)
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Is Iran in Africa?
It would be nice (also necessasy) to have an african country. From my reasoning above that african country should be Nigeria.
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otokx (m)
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south africa will do just fine in the security council
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Chxta (m)
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Yes they would, with their South African centric policy. My friend don't deceive yourself.
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nilla (f)
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south africa will do just fine in the security council
will they? I am sure Nigeria will do just fine too. What would make us not do well? |
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