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cgift (m)
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@lafile: Read my entry after what your associates wrote. I only gave a fraction of
what makes a a Muslim out of prophet Adam. Again not all Muslims are prophet,
but all Prophets are Muslims. If you disagree with me, present your argument, in the
light of the definitions of Muslim/Islam and Prophet/Messenger. To help you to a better
understanding: All Messengers are Prophets, but not all Prophets are messengers.
You are jsut hawking goods that have expired like a sour milk. For ther records, allah was not in existence during the time of Jesus Christ and He could not have therefore being submissive to allah. Allah existed before MO and MO only raised allah from one of the pagan gods since it was regarded as a high god. Again, Jesus Christ never submitted to the work of men's hands, an idol. By your lame defination of whom a Muslim is, then all true christians are muslims abi but they are not followers of MO.  And lastly, do notdeceiveyourself saying Mohammad was a prophet. He was not. He never hadf any prophetic quality in him. No miracles, he lacked understanding of science, he lacked good human relations, he lacked the ability to tell of future events accurately. All he had was his slit belly when he was young and the frequent epileptic seizures that made him convulse and call for blanketsto be put on him during those infamous times of his. Again, MO was no called prophet of Jehovah God. I wish you the best in your game of probability you play with your soul. |
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olabowale (m)
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@Cgift: Why don't you just show us the quality of Jesus and show us the definition of
Muslim, who is truly obedient to God Almighty. Compare the two side by side. Lets hear
your conclusion about how Jesus, is not a prophet of God and how he did not fall under
the definition of Muslim, a practitioner of Islam?
Did Jesus submit his will to the Will of God? If the answer is yes, then he was a Muslim!
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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Why don't you just show us the quality of Jesus and show us the definition of
Muslim, who is truly obedient to God Almighty. What makes a person a Muslim? What is a Muslim? Compare the two side by side. Lets hear After you definition, we shall have good occasion to compare and then seek more answers beyond your definition, where necessary. Did Jesus submit his will to the Will of God? If the answer is yes, then he was a Muslim! Is that all that made Him a 'Muslim' - just like that? Did the apostles of Jesus not submit to the Will of God as well? Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 1 Thes. 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication Hebrews 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 1 Peter 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God. 1 John 2:17 And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. All these demonstrate that they knew and submitted to the "will of God" - but did that therefore make them 'Muslims'?!? |
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babs787 (m)
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@pilgrim
Please if Jesus wasnt a muslim, what religion did he practised and try to back same with verses from your bible.
Thanks
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pilgrim.1 (f)
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@pilgrim
Please if Jesus wasnt a muslim, what religion did he practised and try to back same with verses from your bible. Where in the Bible do we read that Jesus was a Muslim? |
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olabowale (m)
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For sure Jesus was not a Christian. And he did not instruct anyone to start any religion after he had left. Definitely he did not ask anybody to start Christianity or name a religion after him. With that in mind, all that is Christianity is without the John Hancock of Jesus son of Mary. And by the way why are you all still calling this woman a Virgin after you have said that she had two sons, brothers of Jesus for Joseph the capenter? If she remained a virgin after having children from a sexual relation witha man, then thats a bigger miracle than the birth of Jesus without father.
We see how convoluted the mindset of those who still call her a virgin is? Maybe their Bible still denotes her as a virgin. No wonder we all doubt the authenticity of the Bible and called it lost. We all agree that it is corrupted and watered down from its original. It is now a mere shadow of its undiluted and pure originally revealed Books.
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babs787 (m)
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@pilgrim.1 W here in the Bible do we read that Jesus was a Muslim? Allah in the Quran that happens to be the last book tells us that Jesus was a muslim and if you think that he is not, kindly provide any verse from the bible, showing that he wasnt and supply verse that shows that he was a christian Thanks |
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Jairzinho (m)
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For sure Jesus was not a Christian. And he did not instruct anyone to start any religion after he had left. Definitely he did not ask anybody to start Christianity or name a religion after him. With that in mind, all that is Christianity is without the John Hancock of Jesus son of Mary. And by the way why are you all still calling this woman a Virgin after you have said that she had two sons, brothers of Jesus for Joseph the capenter? If she remained a virgin after having children from a sexual relation witha man, then thats a bigger miracle than the birth of Jesus without father.
We see how convoluted the mindset of those who still call her a virgin is? Maybe their Bible still denotes her as a virgin. No wonder we all doubt the authenticity of the Bible and called it lost. We all agree that it is corrupted and watered down from its original. It is now a mere shadow of its undiluted and pure originally revealed Books.
Just state facts & don't lie, ok? You are communicating with very intelligent people. Your holy quran confirmed Jesus was born of a virgin (3:47, 19:20),so whats your problem? After Jesus,she had other children & DID NOT DIE A VIRGIN. Get your facts right. |
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Jairzinho (m)
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I wonder why Muslims(the ones dat remain) like to deceive themselves? Islam was started by the Holy Prophet Mohammed(SAW),the ENTIRE Old Testament in the Bible was re-written in Arabic to form a chunk of the Koran. How can you confirm this,3 monotheist beliefs ssentially originated from the Mid East , Christianity,Judaism & Islam. The first 2 accounts are the same , only the Holy Prophet Mohammed's(SAW) seem to differ??  And to answer your question,Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was born into a Jewish family. But John 14:6 encapsulates His ministy on earth.  |
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olabowale (m)
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@jairzinho: Your name sounds Portuguese/Brazilian, Sao Tome; Tuda ben? I wonder why Muslims(the ones that remain) like to deceive themselves?
Islam was started by the Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW),the ENTIRE Old Testament in the Bible was re-written in Arabic to form a chunk of the Koran.
How can you confirm this,3 monotheist beliefs ssentially originated from the Mid East , Christianity,Judaism & Islam. The first 2 accounts are the same , only the Holy Prophet Muhammad's(SAW) seem to differ??
And to answer your question,Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ was born into a Jewish family.
But John 14:6 encapsulates His ministy on earth. : The Ones that remain, meaning the Muslims are roughly 25% of the world population, duh! Yet from the remaining 75%, we find Hindus of India, Shinto, Buddha and animists and others, from at least 70% of China and the same of India, Japanese and a small amount at least 10% from Africa and other places. How large is Christianity again? We know that the Jews are very small, at least 1% of the world population? Notice that I have based all my statements on religion alone and not ethnicity, whatsoever. Which Chapter of the Old Testament of the Bible was copied/was re-written in Arabic to form a chunk of the (Qur'an)? Please present them and place then side by side with the relevant parts of the Qur'an for your own education. Qur'an came to correct the 'Bible!' Qur'an does it by accurately presenting 100% truth of any matter, where by the Bible does not present the same 100%. Qur'an negates what lies and embellishments/exaggerations the Bible presents as sets of facts. Qur'an is against evil deeds and defines them with the appropriate punishments, where as the Bible begs the questions. Qur'an declares that the present Bible is corrupted/a watered down document of what was Originally revealed to the Prophets. Qur'an declares that any other form of religion that one comes with, except Islam will be rejected on the day of Judgement. And the person will be punished in the fire of Hell. Suratul Fatiha declares that Jews have incurred the wrath of God and Christians have gone astray! Where then does Qur'an give precedence to your TODAY'S BIBLE? You do not have authentic revelation anymore, Mr. Jew or Mr. Christian! Do not deceive yourself, neither Judaism nor Christianity is a Monotheistic religion, in the pure form. They remain just that only in name. The mere fact that your Bible is not 100% pure prior to Muhammad's receiving the revelation of Qur'an is enough that you truly do not worship the Creator and Revealer of those Books; The Taurah to Moses, the Sabuur to David and Injiil to Jesus son of Mary! Just because Jesus was born to a Jewish family does not mean that he was not a Muslim! I was born to a Yoruba family, even though I am an ordinary man and there is no prophet/messenger after Muhammad, yet am still a Muslim! Your ethnicity should not determine your religion. Their being Muslims was the primary definition of their being Prophets of Allah. They could not acll anyone to worship anyone else, including themselves. Their sole responsibility of their missions is Calling People to worship Allah Alone and no one else! Each was given complete command, and Jesus was from among these Prophets/Messengers to call their people to the worship of One God and never to associate any partnership with that God! Your calling Jesus Christ, son of Virgin Mary your lord and savior proves that you are worshipping him. He was a person born of a woman, just like you. Hence, you have set up partnership with your statement which is false that you worship God alone. For sure you worship God and then you worship Jesus. You are a multigod worshipper and that is Idolatry! |
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olabowale (m)
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Is the religion of Virgin Mary different from her son's religion? Or neither one of them practice any religion? For sure, we see verses in the Qur'an that commands Mary to bow down with those who bow. Without wanting to go to the Tafsir of that verse, we know that she was commanded in the way of Islam. And she obliged and obeyed the command. Zachariah also was commanded to make praising Supplications to Allah, in the period of after Salatul Subh and Asri. This time, he was already told that Yahya would be born at his old age, in the old age and wrinkled form that he and his wife were.
His sign was that he would be unable to speak for three days, so he only motion, by signing to talk to people. But during the two period of after Salatul Subh and Asri, Allah will return his voice to him, so that he can make the audible tesbir: Alhamdulillah, Shukrillah. These are 2 Miracles here. The first is the lost of voice and the second is that the voice will come back just for a particular function/commitment, as long as it pleased the Owner of the Throne Supreme.
We will not go to the birth of Yahya to these old believing people. The example was already in place with Ibrahim and Sarah, from the old time!
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Jairzinho (m)
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Jairzinho was part of the Brazillian 1970 World Cup team(with Rivelino,Pele etc)
Honestly most of what you've written in a bit incoherent(forgive me),but I'll advise we both wait for 'judgement' day.
Judaism is the religion of the Jews.
There's no such thing as the religion of Mary, Catholics are Christians(followers of Jesus Christ)
How can the Koran 'correct' the Bible,allah should have revealed the truth & new things to the Holy Prophet Mohammed(SAW),not correct what was already written,you people underestimate the power of allah o !
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olabowale (m)
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@Jairzinho: There lies your ignorance. Telling your Creator that He should have revealed something different, other than Joseph, for example from the Old Testament and other than Jesus from the New Testament. If this were to have been the case, would not the like of you states that the NEW REVELATION has nothing to show any thread or association to the Old Revelations, which it came to correct? How do you correct something when your Material is not relevant to what you are intending to correct. How could Qur'an have been able to correct the lies heaved up on the personality of Jesus, except the true quality and personality was presented? How do we know that there is Only One God, except that the concept of three godheads/son, father,spirit, is all destroyed to nothingness?
I know am incoherent, but I know the truth when I read it, when I hear it and my SOUL and HEART have no disagreement with it!
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Jairzinho (m)
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Let me get you staright
allah revealed stuff to different prophets before ,during and after Jesus,but they all kind of distorted it,then came along th holy prophet Mohammed(SAW) and he corrected all the previous mistakes?
Is this what you're saying sir?
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Jairzinho (m)
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Still waiting
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sleek29 (m)
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Olabowale, if you say that the definition of a muslim is one who submits to will of God then i have no problem with that, but the question is, can a ''muslim'' still be called a muslim even if he doesn't believe in mohammed?
Jesus was born a Jew, He was infact called rabbi, Christianity is not a religion as its a term used to refer to the disciples at antioch which means ''like Christ'', the church is a gathering of Christians(those who are like Christ or those who follow Christ)
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #48 on: November 04, 2009, 08:44 AM » |
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@op, Good thread with wisdom, exquisite ! Keep it up
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playboy08
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hi, members, i think the issue of religion should be left with those who imported them into this country. reason most time,i'm a bit confused; imagine, the bible stated that ''who so ever did not believe that jesus christ is the saviour, has been condemed' and the quran made us to understand that ALLAH will not accept any religion than islam. now, which do we believe? or are we serving a different GOD? |
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playboy08
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hi, members, i think the issue of religion should be left with those who imported them into this country. reason most time,i'm a bit confused; imagine, the bible stated that ''who so ever did not believe that jesus christ is the saviour, has been condemed' and the quran made us to understand that ALLAH will not accept any religion than islam. now, which do we believe? or are we serving a different GOD?
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olabowale (m)
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@Jairzinho: « #45 on: January 04, 2008, 09:58 AM » Let me get you staright
allah revealed stuff to different prophets before ,during and after Jesus,but they all kind of distorted it,then came along th holy prophet Mohammed(SAW) and he corrected all the previous mistakes?
Is this what you're saying sir? First, I dont know who your allah is. But I worship Allah, the Almight God Lord of all creations! My statement is that at some point, after the custodians (the prophets) who are the ones that Allah revealed the devine messages in revelations to for mankind left their communities, by death or lifting up (the lifting up relates to Jesus, while death relate to Moses, David (AS)), the people in their community after sometimes and generations used to add their own issues, thinking that they are refining, or expalining, but neither left pure nor without personal desire as they understand it. Let me give you example, while Jesus said he was a subject of his Lord God Who is One Indivisible Lord, look at Mark 12 Verse 29 and others, Paul and others somehow drag Jesus with a label of godship or god sonship. These opinions are completely different from what Jesus said about himself, similar to what previous prophets said about themselves, and the same thing that Muhammad said of himself! « #46 on: January 08, 2008, 10:11 AM »
Still waiting Thanks for waiting for that long. |
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olabowale (m)
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@Playboy08: « #50 on: Today at 12:15:23 PM » hi, members, i think the issue of religion should be left with those who imported them into this country. reason most time,i'm a bit confused; imagine, the bible stated that ''who so ever did not believe that jesus christ is the saviour, has been condemed' and the quran made us to understand that ALLAH will not accept any religion than islam. now, which do we believe? or are we serving a different GOD? You will agree with me that Jesus did not say that he is the "savior" of mankind, and definitely that he did not write the Bible? With these two, we then have to look at what Jesus may have said in the so called Bible. Is it in essence different and insistent with what Moses or previous prophets said, did, etc as relating to God, the Creator? Did Jesus say at anytime that he is the Creator? What did Muhammad say? Is he the Author of the Quran? Did he say that Quran is his speech or rather the Speech of his Creator? Now you will find your answer in the above, if you open your inner eye, instead of discarding religion/way of worshipping God altogether making you therefore an atheist, or a confirmed disbeliever! |
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Nezan (m)
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hi, members, i think the issue of religion should be left with those who imported them into this country. Religion is concerned with your relationship with your God (or god). So if you confess your faith, why should you leave it to other people . . . you mean they should be worshipping your G(g)od for you? i'm a bit confused; imagine, the bible stated that ''who so ever did not believe that jesus christ is the saviour, has been condemed' and the quran made us to understand that ALLAH will not accept any religion than islam. Do not be confused, we have fake religions with fake prophets and a true religion with true prophets . . 'by they fruits you shall know them' . . . shine your eye and discern the true followers of God. now, which do we believe? or are we serving a different GOD? . . yes! we are serving two different Gods . . . YHWH is the name of the Christian God, while allah, who used to be an idol, housed together in the kaaba in makkah with other idols (numbering about 360) worshipped by mohammed's kinsmen of quraish tribe in arabia, was re-introduced and made to look like the Almighty God, is the one worshipped by muslims. |
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Pastor AIO
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Good day to you Olabowale, would you say that you are a muslim? I don't think that in your life you have followed absolutely every injunction in the koran. Since you have not submitted fully to Allah then it follows that you are not a muslim.
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #55 on: November 04, 2009, 01:37 PM » |
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Pastor A O, what the hell are you saying ?
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Pastor AIO
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Pastor A O, what the hell are you saying ?
Who dey follow you talk? |
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muhsin (m)
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Alhamdulillah.  |
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #58 on: November 04, 2009, 03:32 PM » |
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Pastor AIO, all am saying is, YOU ARE UTTERING GIBBERISH
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Nezan (m)
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Dont you get tired abusing people?
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Pastor AIO
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Pastor AIO, all am saying is, YOU ARE UTTERING GIBBERISH
Listen, Mr Man, I don't know what I could done or said to make you think that you can engage me in dialogue. Whatever it is I apologize and revoke it. I have no interest in discussing anything with you. This is going to be, if not the first then, hopefully the last time. And I will make it short and quick. And before you claim that I'm attacking your islam, I'm not. I talk to muslims frequently about their religion both here and in the real world. This is not about islam, this is about you so take it personally. I find your contributions absolutely unfortunate. I'd rather not engage you on any level at all. I put you in the same box as I put tpia and KAG. Please don't respond to this. Thank you and bye bye. |
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viaro
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I put you in the same box as I put tpia and KAG. No, no and no - I'm sorry to have to reply to that line. It is not appropriate to equate Abu+zola with either tpia or KAG. There is just no basis to do so. |
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Abuzola (m)
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No subject
« #62 on: November 04, 2009, 07:18 PM » |
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Oops
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Pastor AIO
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And before you claim that I'm attacking your islam, I'm not. I talk to muslims frequently about their religion both here and in the real world. This is not about islam, this is about you so take it personally. I find your contributions absolutely unfortunate. I'd rather not engage you on any level at all. I put you in the same box as I put tpia and KAG. Please don't respond to this. Thank you and bye bye.
I believe what I actually said here was unfortunate, not unfortunate. It wasn't a personal attack but rather an attack on the quality of his contributions. I believe I have every right to give such an opinion. Perhaps I should back it up with reasons why I say so, though. So here we go: unfortunate would include posting irrelevant koranic verses on thread that have nothing to do with Islam. An Idiot is a mentally deficient person, or somebody who acts in a foolish, self defeating, uneducated or counterproductive way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiot_(person) I believe the wikidefinition fits Abuzola's contributions like a glove to a hand. If the moderator has any beef with my use of the word then he should take it up with OUP, wikipedia, or any of the authorities of the English language. |
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