Mohammed, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

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Topic: Mohammed, Plagiarism And Other Stories. (Read 1484 views)

babs787 (m)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #128 on: December 26, 2007, 05:07 PM »

@pilgrim.1

Still on the corruption of your bible.

Obviously as we all know, there are 4 different Gospels. One authored by Mark, Matthew, Luke and John.

The book of Mark is said to be dated between years 65-80

The book of Matthew is said to be dated years 80-100

The book of Luke is said to be dated years 80-100

The book of John is said to be dated years 90-120

Source: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

So Mark is dated at 65

So Mark is dated at 80

So Mark is dated at 80

So Mark is dated at 90

When you read the Gospels you can clearly see the image of Jesus Christ developing from a more human Jesus to a divine Jesus. The image of Jesus' divinity is greatly emphasized and portrayed in the Gospel of John. This is the last of the Gospels. You also see developments in stories such as the Resurrection accounts.

Evolution of the Character Of Jesus Throughout the Gospels

Verses added to show Jesus as Son of God

Mark 1:1

The beginning of the gospel about Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

If you look at the commentary below if you use the NIV bible, it says that some manuscripts do not have the phrase Son of God. So it is possible that this has been added.

Another example is that if you read Acts chapter 8, verse 37 is taken out of the RSV and NIV bible. That verse says

Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." The eunuch answered, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

Also look at the development of this incident from Mark's gospel to Matthew's

Mark 8:29

But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?" Peter answered, "You are the Christ.

Matthew 16:15-16
15"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."

The word 'Lord' being exchanged for 'Rabbi'

Mark 9:5
Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here. Let us put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."

Matthew 17:4
Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters—one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah."

The word 'Lord' being exchanged for 'Teacher'

Mark 4:38
Jesus was in the stern, sleeping on a cushion. The disciples woke him and said to him, "Teacher, don't you care if we drown?"

Matthew 8:25
The disciples went and woke him, saying, "Lord, save us! We're going to drown!"

Shifting from Mark to Matthew we see that Matthew is putting “My Father”

Mark 3:35

Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother

Matthew 12:50
For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

Matthew is trying to take away the emphasis that Jesus stressed there is one lord

Mark 12:29
The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

Matthew does not even say that verse what so ever. Read Matthew 22:34-40 and see yourself.

Matthew is trying to change the relationship between Jesus and his God
Mark 10:18
"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone.

Matthew 19:17
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."

Covering up the human limitations of Jesus
If you read the story of Jesus cursing the fig tree in Mark 11:12-15 (he did curse it, confirm in verse 21), you would not find it in Matthew's gospel in chapter 21 12-17.

Development in the Resurrection Accounts

Mark 16:8

8Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

Matthew 28:8

8So the women hurried away from the tomb, afraid yet filled with joy, and ran to tell his disciples.

Matthew's gospel contains the 'filled with joy' part to show that they were expecting the resurrection but in Mark they were afraid maybe because they never knew about it. Also in Mark it says that they said nothing to anyone. Therefore, who are the witnesses then of the empty tomb from the women? The story must have been manufactured.

Coming shortly.

babs787 (m)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #129 on: December 26, 2007, 05:32 PM »

@pilgrim.1

Each of the Four Gospels portrays a different aspect of Jesus:

Matthew -- The prophesied Messiah of the Jews
Matthew was written for a Jewish audience. It's primary purpose is to prove that Jesus is the promised Messiah by showing how He is the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies about the Messiah.

Mark -- Human Jesus, Obedient Servant
Jesus was not simply God with the appearance of a human. Jesus actually was fully human. When He became human He left His divine powers in heaven and came to live among men as a man. (He was able to perform miracles because He was filled with the Holy Spirit.) It is often taught that Mark portrays Jesus as an obedient servant, even obedient unto death.

Luke -- Savior of all mankind
Luke was written for a Gentile audience. They were not familiar with Hebrew prophecies about the Messiah nor did they care about them. One of his major themes is that Jesus came for all mankind.

John -- God Incarnate
John, the last Gospel, was written around 96 A.D. It's primary purpose is to show the deity of Christ.

So notice that the earliest Gospel which is Mark emphasized the human part of Jesus and the last Gospel to be written which is John emphasized the deity of Jesus.

However, one thing that I cannot understand is that people who read the Gospel of Mark only knew the more human aspect of Jesus. They barely knew anything about his so called divinity. They did not know about all the "I am" sayings found in John. They did not know about the appearance of Jesus after the resurrection because Mark 16:9-20 is a fabricated passage according to textual expert Bruce Mitzger in his book, "The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration", p 226.

They would not have known these things until they read the Gospel of John which came some 20 to 25 years later. However, what if those people died before they were ever able to read the Gospel of John?

Secondly, what evidence do Christians have that these different authors planned to write what they wrote for a specific purpose and that they knew others would write on the other different aspects of Jesus? When you read the writings of the authors you do not even get this impression nor do you even get the impression that they are divinely inspired. For instance, lets look at the introduction to the Gospel of Luke:

Luke 1:1-4

1Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled[a] among us,
2just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word. 3Therefore, since I myself have carefully investigated everything from the beginning, it seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
4so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught.

Luke is talking ordinarily as if he is just simply some other author writing another account. He didn't say things like "the Holy Spirit is inspiring me to write another account to emphasize that Jesus is the savior of all mankind"

There is no evidence that these authors ever collaborated or agreed to write 4 different Gospels for the purpose that the Christians are claiming they did. It is illogical, the word of God is supposed to be the same for everybody. It should be the same message for everyone. You don't go preaching to the Jews a specific thing like Matthew did and to the Gentiles a specific thing like Luke did.

This link will also be useful for you
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

The Gospel of Mark is the oldest and supposedly the most original one in the New Testament!

"Although there is no direct internal evidence of authorship, it was the unanimous testimony of the early church that this Gospel was written by John Mark. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1488)"

So, in reality, we don't really know whether Mark was the sole author of this Gospel or not. And since The New Testament wasn't even documented on paper until 150-300 years (depending on what Christian you talk to) after Jesus, then how are we to know for sure that the current "Gospel of Mark" wasn't written by some pro of Mark?

(http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%2016:9-20;&version=31;)

The above text reads: "The most reliable early manuscript and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20."

Further regarding this Gospel, we read the following commentary about Mark 16:9-20:

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

You may go to this link for the complete list of NT papyril

http://www.why-christians-convert-to-islam.com/ExhibitE.htm

Some contradictions showing that the bible is corrupt;
\
II Samuel 10:18 talks about David slew the men of 700 chariots of the Syrians and 40,000 horsemen and Shobach the commander.
I Chronicles 1:18 says that David slew the men of 7000 chariots and 40,000 footmen

I Chronicles 9:25 says that Solomon had 4000 stalls for horses and chariots.
I Kings 4:26 says that he had 40,000 stalls for horses

Ezra 2:5 talks about an exile Arah having 775 sons.
Nehemiah 7:10 talks about the same exile Arah having 652 sons.

Also, your original scriptures are all doubtful according to the Bible's own theologians and historians, even the Bible itself admits that it has been tampered with and corrupted by man's garbage:

"`How can you say, "We [the Jews] are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?' (From the NIV Bible, Jeremiah 8: Cool

"

The Revised Standard Version makes it even clearer: "How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8: Cool

"

Regarding who wrote the books and gospels of the Bible, here is a sample of what the NIV Bible's theologians and historians wrote:

"Serious doubts exists as to whether these verses belong to the Gospel of Mark. They are absent from important early manuscripts and display certain peculiarities of vocabulary, style and theological content that are unlike the rest of Mark. His Gospel probably ended at 16:8, or its original ending has been lost. (From the NIV Bible Foot Notes, page 1528)"

"Although the author does not name himself, evidence outside the Scriptures and inferences from the book itself lead to the conclusion that the author was Luke. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1643)"

"The writer of this letter does not identify himself, but he was obviously well known to the original recipients. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1856)"

"The letter is difficult to date with precision, (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 1905)"

"It seems safe to conclude that the book, at least in its early form, dates from the beginning of the monarchy. Some think that Samuel may have had a hand in shaping or compiling the materials of the book, but in fact we are unsure who the final author or editor was. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 286)"

"Although, according to tradition, Samuel wrote the book, authorship is actually uncertain. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The date of the composition is also unknown, but it was undoubtedly during the monarchy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 322)"

"The author is unknown. Jewish tradition points to Samuel, but it is unlikely that he is the author because the mention of David (4:17,22) implies a later date. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 360)"

"Who the author was cannot be known with certainty since the book itself gives no indication of his identity. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 368)"

"There is little conclusive evidence as to the identity of the author of 1,2 Kings. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"Whoever the author was, it is clear that he was familiar with the book of Deuteronomy. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 459)"

"According to ancient Jewish tradition, Ezra wrote Chronicles, Ezra and Nehemiah (see Introduction to Ezra: Literary Form and Authorship), but this cannot be established with certainty. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 569)"

"Although we do not know who wrote the book of Esther, from internal evidence it is possible to make some inferences about the author and the date of composition. (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 707)"

"The unknown author probably had access to oral and/or written sources, (From the NIV Bible commentary, page 722)"

"Regarding authorship, opinions are even more divided, (From the NIV Bible Commentary, page 773)"

When you have stopped deceiving yourself, let me know. Omo ti won ko gbe ra ina.

pilgrim.1 (f)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #130 on: December 26, 2007, 05:36 PM »

@babs787,

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

@pilgrim.1

I am not surprised because I know that those older than me and those below me in your family belong to that.

Stop whining this old tale - it has become redundant from overuse. If you are careful to invite good discussions with others, learn to show a bit more respect and decorum to them. I know asking you to be a bit more literate is an overkill, so don't even bother.

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

See Mumu, Do you have your proof that the verse was referring to Jesus. By the way, were dogs involved in Jesus crucifixion/ Mumu, when you provide answer, I wil let you know who the verse was referring to.

The simple thing was that you provide expositions to them. The verses you requested have been posted several times - I only reminded you and asked you to provide exegesis for them. Is this cry the best that you could possibly do? Grin

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Still showing your stupidity. Now, consider the tenses used in that very verse, 'whom they have pierced'. Please has Jesus been born then?

That is why Muslims will remain illieterates for ever!

Let me school you up a little. Biblical prophecies are given in a variety of ways: (a) using futuristic tenses (b) past tenses (c) perfect tenses. . . (d) or even given poetically.

As in the case of Isaiah 9:6, the prophecy was pointing to the future beyond Isaiah's time; but it was given as if it has already happened!! "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given" - those are past tenses. But the verse immediately follows with a FUTURISTIC tense - "the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace".

The simple reason why Muslims continue to be blind and dunces on this matter of Prophetic language is because they are bereft of the revelation of those prophecies!

The one reason why God puts prophecies in these various ways is because with Him, all things are viewed as already accomplished and are irrevocable! The same Isaiah makes that point so clear:

   Isaiah 46:9-10
   Remember the former things of old: for I am God,
   and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
   Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times
   the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand,
   and I will do all my pleasure

When God declares the END from the BEGINNING, it is virtually the way prophecies are given. Those prophecies are given so that the end is already known even before they come to pass!

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

When you do away with your dishonesty, go through the verse and read who the verse was referring to.

Ol boy grow up and hide your shame! I only asked you to offer exegesis to those verse. So far you came back predictably with excuses! Is that the best you could do? Where is your Islamic scholarship?

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

I thought you wanted to provide the prophecy of his crucifixion and resurrection after the third day but you havent done so.

The two verses speak of "piercing". Please help us explain them, since every other time that they have been quoted, the best you have done is deny them!

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Let me combine your posts here.

This

In addition to my already answered questions, can you account for the authors of all the chapters of the bible (both OT and NT)?

Please don't deflect the questions I offered you by running and excusing them away. Answer those questuions first and then we shall come back to this one.

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

The original Message of the Torah (Old Testament) was still around during Muhammad's time. But because the Jews had so much controversies, disputes and age-old prejudices among themselves, they ended up losing the entire original message.

Where did Allah tell you that LIE, babs787? When did this happen in the Islamic calendar?

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Please keep in mind that the Jews were divided into several tribes before Islam, and those tribes had so much problems.

I asked for a simple answer, not story telling. The Arabs were also divided among themselves during Muhammad's time. Besides, Muslims are also divided today - Shiites against Sunnis and against Sufis. . . with the Wahabbis ready to clean their poo off the face of the earth after the dust settles.

Please tell me, how have you stories enlighetened us about the LIE that the Torah and Injil were LOST, babs787? Have you no shame? having lied and unable to defend that lie, the best you do these days is tell irrelevant long stories and sound all the more dense at it!

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

They never had One True Judaism as many Christians mistakenly believe. That is why the Jews massacred each others before and brought themselves from 11 tribes to only 2 (due to all of the blood shed that took place between them. A total of 9 tribes were completely wiped out. That is why "differences arose therein, "

Shiites and Sunjnis have masacred themselves despite the claim to have only one islam.

Now, drop your stories and let us know when Allah decided that the Torah and Inil wrere LOST. WHEN did this happen? And if that happened, why have you been struiggling to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible after your acclaimed Torah went missing?

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

As for the Christians and their Injil (New Testament), we Muslims believe that the Christians unintentionally had corrupted the Bible because they waited for too long to document it. Some Christians believe that the Bible was documented 150 years after Jesus. Others believe it took 300 years. In either case, the gap is too big and no Christian can guarantee accuracy. That is why you read in their current books and Gospels things such as "And Jesus said to Matthew, " instead of "And Jesus said to me [Matthew], " and so on. Cases similar to this example literally exist in most of the New Testament of today, where they prove that the New Testament was not even written by its original authors. It was written by third party people, and their words are considered today the Word of GOD, which is wrong and sinful. The Christian sects also believe in different number of Gospels when you compare them to each others. The number of Books/Gospels in the Roman Catholics Bible for instance is different from the King James Version Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Jehovah's Witnesses Bible, which is different in the number of Books/Gospels from the Mormon's Bible, etc,

Classic lie, lie and lie from the same Muslim propagandist. "WE Muslims believe" - that does not mean there is a fact there! Tongue

I want the simple historical FACT to your drivel, mister! If the Injil went missing and untraceable, WHY the duplicity of trying to force Muhammad into John's Gospel? Do you care to not speak from both sides of your face?

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Ibn 'Abbas said, 'Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Quran) which has been revealed to Allah's Apostle is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain. Does not the knowledge which has come to you prevent you from asking them about anything? No, by Allah, we have never seen any man from them asking you regarding what has been revealed to you!' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Holding Fast to the Qur'an and Sunnah, Volume 9, Book 92, Number 461)"

Please pack these fallacies to one side and gee me the real HISTORICAL fact. Cool

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 5 v 13: "But on account of their breaking their covenant We cursed them (Jews and Christians) and made their hearts hard; they altered the words from their places and they neglected a portion of what they were reminded of; and you shall always discover treachery in them excepting a few of them; so pardon them and turn away; surely Allah loves those who do good (to others)."

Muhammad again lied there! Cool

Allah did not curse nobody - it was Muhammad's rascal CURSING heart that assumed that Allah cursed them!

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 5 v 41 "O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say "We believe" with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, 'If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!' If any one's trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God's will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment."

Lol. . . cough! cough! Let me laugh out louder: HEHE-HAW_HAW!! Grin

Look here, mister, I don't fear nutin from the Qur'an. When I was a Muslim, you could shakara me with Muhammad's bloviates!

Please open your eyes and see that in this world, Muslims are the ones who have suffered disgrace even at their own hands! Muslims did not wait for anyone to spur the Shiites to slaughter the Sunnis. . . together they derided the Sufis. . . the Whahabbis has shown them pepper! What more disgrace do they need? Grin

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 5 v 15: : O people of the Book! There hath come to you our Messenger,
revealing to you much that ye used to hide in the Book, and passing over
much (that is now unnecessary): There hath come to you from Allah a (new)
light and a perspicuous Book, -

Yada-yada!! Jews and Christians did not hide nutin - it is rather Muslims who are claiming that the Torah is LOST when infact it is available for all to see today! LIE, LIE and LIE is all you Musloims do!

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 3 v 3; "It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment be tween right and wrong).

Ahh. . . there, mr babs. . . there!! YOUR QUR'AN was given to CONFIRM the Bible and not CORRECT it. Olodo rabata with your LIES! Did you not try to cheat people by claiming that the Qur'an was given to CORRECT the mistakes in the Bible? Is that what the verse above claims?

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 5 v 48; "To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Again O. . . the Qur'an was given to CONFIRMN the Bible that came before it! Babs787, please go to school and upgrade your basic reading skills - the Qur'an was not given to "CORRECT" the Bible; so please stop lying for Allah and making him say what he never said in his Qur'an.

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 04:57 PM

Quran 35 v 31: "That which We have revealed to thee of the Book is the Truth,- confirming what was (revealed) before it: for God is assuredly- with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant.

Again O. . . the Qur'an came to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures.

We shall get to see if that is true! Grin

pilgrim.1 (f)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #131 on: December 26, 2007, 05:40 PM »

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 05:32 PM

Keep recycling the same thing over and over again. . . it does not help to wipe the duplicity in the Qur'an.

Three issues that I'm still waiting answers for this eveing:

(a) WHERE did Allah tell you Muslims the LIE that the Torah and Injil were LOST? Verses from the Qur'an please.

(b) Where did Allah tell you the LIE that the Qur'an came to CORRECT the Biblical scriptures?

(c) What explanations have you offered to the Biblical prophecies that declare the crucifixion as already proffered?

Stop lying for Allah - it will never bless Muhammad in his grave! Grin

babs787 (m)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #132 on: December 26, 2007, 05:51 PM »

Quote

Three issues that I'm still waiting answers for this eveing:

(a) WHERE did Allah tell you Muslims the LIE that the Torah and Injil were LOST? Verses from the Qur'an please.

(b) Where did Allah tell you the LIE that the Qur'an came to CORRECT the Biblical scriptures?

(c) What explanations have you offered to the Biblical prophecies that declare the crucifixion as already proffered?

Stop lying for Allah - it will never bless Muhammad in his grave!

You may deny the glaring truth till eternity but the fact has been established so far.

If the bible has not been tampered with,

1. Is Jehovah witness bible the word of God
2. Is catholic bible word of God
3. Which version is really from God?
4. Do we say that Moses wrote the first fuve books of the OT/
5. Do we include letters of Luke, Paul, John, etc as part of the revelation given to Jesus?
6. What does the revelation given to Moses contains?
7. What does the revelation given to Jesus contains?
8. Is the bible 1005 inspired?

Others will follow.

pilgrim.1 (f)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #133 on: December 26, 2007, 06:09 PM »

Quote from: babs787 on December 26, 2007, 05:51 PM

@pilgrim

I can see that you keep getting tired to day after day for not knowing what to write. You supplied me Isaiah 9 v 6 that has been nailed long time ago. Find another verse dear and stop bringing already dead issue to fit into the present discussion. The verse couldnt have been for Jesus becausec he was not a prince of peace unless you want to tell me that he is not OT God and that he didnt order the killing spree of innocent children and keeping of virgins for the warriors. He made it known to you that his kingdom was not of this world and you keep ascriing the verse to him. Common wise up and stop decieving yourself. I thought that you would provide rebuttal to all my post but shamefully you couldnt do that.

You may deny the glaring truth till eternity but the fact has been established so far.

If the bible has not been tampered with,

1. Is Jehovah witness bible the word of God
2. Is catholic bible word of God
3. Which version is really from God?
4. Do we say that Moses wrote the first fuve books of the OT/
5. Do we include letters of Luke, Paul, John, etc as part of the revelation given to Jesus?
6. What does the revelation given to Moses contains?
7. What does the revelation given to Jesus contains?
8. Is the bible 1005 inspired?

Others will follow.

Please stop being such a coward by repeating the same thing I've already dealt with in another thread! (http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-98121.64.html#msg1796221)

You think by trying to appear in every thread with nothing new to say, you will bring glory to Allah after LYINg for him? Shame.

olabowale (m)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #134 on: December 27, 2007, 08:07 AM »

This statement of yours, my dear Pilgrim.1, it applies to you, more than anyone I know. You should take your own advise.

pilgrim.1 (f)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #135 on: December 27, 2007, 09:08 AM »

@olabowale,

I've had a very busy resumption at work after the Christmas break. Here's what I should let you understand before I prepare for my other job:

Quote from: olabowale on December 27, 2007, 08:07 AM

This statement of yours, my dear Pilgrim.1, it applies to you, more than anyone I know. You should take your own advise.

Dear olabowale, if LYING for Allah is what you hope I should take as an advice, I'm sorry to inform you that I do not seek to bring glory to him by deception!

So there! It does not apply to me more than those you know only within a small clan. Grin

babs787 (m)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #136 on: December 27, 2007, 07:51 PM »

@pilgrim

Quote

Please stop being such a coward by repeating the same thing I've already dealt with in another thread! (http://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-98121.64.html#msg1796221)

Let me attend to your post from the link you supplied.

Quote

Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
1. What does the revelation given to Moses contain

Clever fool.

That goes to your elderly family members those am older than.

Quote

You told us that the Torah and Injil were LOST, and we asked many times what the lost Torah and injil contained. Did you ever answer those questions? Sorry, you have been warned before, I'm not here for your Islamic games - and you can go back to your errand boys and let them know that your juju will never work on pilgrim.1.

Look at this uncout mumu. You actuallty fell for the bait. I will respond to your post below

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Open the Bible and read for yourself what was revealed to Moses. The Torah is still part of the OT and has never been lost - contrary to your Islamic lies to make Allah say what he never once said!

Now, grab your bible and tell me if Moses wrote the book of deuteronomy., contributing to his own death! Some fo your folks here said it was penned down before his death while others said that somebody helped him in drafting that chapter.

Let us have a look at these verses to see if Moses actually wrote the books

'and the Lord said unto him, away get thee down
'and Moses said uot the Lord, the people cannot come'
'and the Lord said unto moses, go on before the people, '
'and the Lord spake unto Moses saying,

It is very glaring that these words are neither that of God nor Moses.

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
2. What does the revelation given to Jesus contain

Jesus Himself is the Gospelm being preached to all the world. It was Muhammad who came along with the dubious LIE that a revelation was given to Jesus as the Injil, whereas no Muslim knows where that Injil is today!

See Mumu again.

She claimed that Jesus happened to be the gospel but has forgotten that Jesus said

Mathew 9 v 35: and jesus went, preaching the gospel , and healing every diease among the people

mark 8 v 35: but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's the same shall save it.

His sayings happened to be the Gospel from the above verses and not your stupid claim that he was the Gospel. God gave him the Gospel to use that as constitution guidind him. Now I am still asking you what does the Gospel contain and if you can furnish me that, I will go into the Quran and give you the Gospel which contain everything you need to know about Jesus.

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
when you are able to provide these, I will show that we have the revelation given to Moses, Jesus and David in the glorious Quran.

Please bring them out and let us read! Pack the stories of mere mention of their names in the Qur'an - andn when you do bring out your "stories", there will be questions for you to answer.

Sister, I have been trying to show you that but you have been deluded to the extent of not been able to think and apply simply logic to the issue of corrupt torah and injil. Let me have what the Torah, Injil and Pslam contain and I will serve you all you need to know from the Quran.

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That is the same confused LIE that Muslims are marking time with! If the Bible was "corrupt" what prompted you to try and smuggle Muhammad into John's Gospel and Deuteronomy in previous debates?

Is your bible not corrupt? Which version is the real bible so that we go into that and I will give you corrupt verses therein.

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
1, Please do we say Catholic bible is not the word of God?

I'm not a Catholic - and if anyone has been following my discussions all along with Catholics, they already know my answer to that question.

It doesnt matter, don't try running away from my question. I don't know the answer and will apprecviate you tel;ling me your answer because I want to use your response to nail you and hope you know that protestants originated frm catholic. So let me have your answer and be a good girl Cheesy

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
2. Do we say Jehovah witness is not the word of God

How can Jehovah Witness be the Word of God? Are you that daft? Jehovah Witnesses are a denominational group - they are not the Word of God!!

Sorry, I meant that 'Is jehovah witness bible not the word of God?'

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
3. Which versions is really from God and when you supply me a version, I will give you missing verses in that, contradictions etc.

The VERSIONS are not the original manuscripts in just the same way that there are VERSIONS of the Qur'an which are saying DIFFERENT things all at once on the same verses!!

Liar, can I have the original version please. How come the original manuscript is not having some verses but later editions are having same?

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
4. Do we count the word of historian, un-inspired words, third party statement as part of the revelation given to the prophets

You already know the answer to that question. If the word of thrid party is not valid, neither is the Qur'an valid - because Allah never spoke directly to Muhammad at anytime! DENY the fact!

See how she avoided my question. Do we take the un-inspired words of historians as part of the revelation given to Moses and Jesus?

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Quote from: babs787 on Yesterday at 04:23:25 PM
5. Do we include letters of Paul as part of the revelation God gave to Jesus.

You must be a classic dunce per excellence! The Revelation is the last book of the New Testament - pick up a Bible and see!

That also goes to your family member older than myself. I asked a simple question but you flopped. I asked you if letters of Paul are part of the revelation God gave to Jesus but you showed your lack of home training, went hallucinating and gave me book of revelation which I didnt ask for. You may go read again and when you are through, call those older than me in your family and read to explain to you that your misfired there. Omo ti won ko ni ile, ita ni won maa ti ko.

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The reason why you keep sounding off these disgusting duplicity is because you love so easily to divert topics and then proffer illieterate questions by which you hope to hoodwink me. Sorry babs, it has not worked and will never work on me.

I have never diverted thread but you have been the one littering threads with your nightmare of corrupt torh and injil. The threads are there for you to read and deny your dishonesty.

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You think by trying to appear in every thread with nothing new to say, you will bring glory to Allah after LYINg for him? Shame.

You should be the one asking yourself that question. You keep appearing in thread that doesnt concern thinking that you know everythingf but alas you knew nothing.

I have been telling you, I ready for you with regards to the status of Jesus, using verses from the bible as evidence while Quran will serve as our judge and it will go a long way to tell you that I have enough proof for my leaving the fraud called christianity.

pilgrim.1 (f)

Re: Muhammad, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

« #137 on: December 27, 2007, 08:34 PM »

@babs787,