Mohammed, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

Plagiarism or pretending to quote the psalms?

Quran
21.105 (Yusuf Ali translation):

"Before this WE WROTE IN THE PSALMS, after the Message (given to Moses): 'MY
SERVANTS THE RIGHTEOUS, SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH.'"

Psalms 37:29 (King James Version):
"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever."

Stop beating about the bush my dear.
If allah was speaking in the Koran who was he talking to here.

The most important of verses in the Qur’an, that is, Sura al-Fateha (Sura 1) is definitely Muhammad’s (or some other poet’s) creation. Please read this Sura carefully:

001.001 In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
001.002 Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
 001.003 Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
 001.004 Master of the Day of Judgment.
 001.005 Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
 001.006 Show us the straight way,
 001.007 The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.
 

Any idiot can understand that was Mohammed speaking not allah (if there is one)

Please note that the translator Yusuf Ali deliberately inserted the word “Say” at the outset of this verse. In the original Qur’an there is no “Say” (Kul in Arabic). Here are the translations by Pickthal and Shakir, another two authoritative Qur’an translators.

PICKTHAL: Shall I seek other than Allah for judge, when He it is Who hath revealed unto you (this) Scripture, fully explained? Those unto whom We gave the Scripture (aforetime) know that it is revealed from thy Lord in truth. So be not thou (O Muhammad) of the waverers.
SHAKIR: Shall I then seek a judge other than Allah? And He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) made plain; and those whom We have given the Book know that it is revealed by your Lord with truth, therefore you should not be of the disputers.

notice that Mohammed was doing the talking here also not allah

Just what was allah saying here?

Qur'an 40:36 "Pharaoh said: 'O Haman, build me a lofty tower that I may attain a way (to reach) the heavens, that I may mount up and look upon the Ilah (God) of Moses. But as far as I am concerned, I think (Moses) is a liar.' Thus was made alluring, in Pharaoh's eyes, the evil of his deeds; and the plot of Pharaoh led to nothing but perdition."

This is certainly plagiarised from the book of Exoduse while Moses was pleading with Pharaoh to let the Isrealites leave.

Take a close look at the parts in highlights:

1. O Haman? Haman, from biblical sources and history, was NO Egyptian but Babylonian. He lived during the time of Queen Esther, centuries after the Jews had left Egypt.

2. Was Pharaoh asking for the building of the tower of babel? Nimrod was long dead before Abraham was even born. 

Apparently allah could not even plagiarise the bible with a bit more cunning.

@davidylan


 
You couldnt provide solution to the plagiarism from your bible presented to you

By the way, which John wrote the Gospel of John please and we see if your book has not been tampered with

lmao!!!

@ At all those who are claiming Muhammad (as) plagiarised Jewish, Christian or any other religions materials,
please put up or shut up! You can't make a claim and be unable to back it up. A torment of fire as punishment
is awaiting anyone who tells a lie against any Prophet and Messenger of Allah the God Almighty.

Below is the Qur'an narration of the end of Pharaoh, through the hand of Prophet Moses. Please compare it to that
in the OT. Unfortunately, the Christians believe part of the OT and disbelieve the remaining part, which directly
points out, to them, that God Almighty is One. There are no multiply godhead(s)!

From Chapter 10, verses 88 through 92, (Surah Yunusa), we see how Allah the Almighty destroyed Fir'aun and his
forces. Only Musa and his his stick, with his older brother Haruun, being supported by Jibril and Mikail, brought to an
abrupt end a before a strong mighty dynasty! Notice the full details; you will read about the horse of Jibril interracting
with the horse of Pharaoh. (From Tafsir ibn Kathir; Qur'an verses and some related Hadith/Sunnah).

God Almighty excited the evildoers to a tragic end. My people, the Christians, you have a chance, do not make the Almighty Allah
excites you to the same end! You will end up in the same doom as Pharaoh, if you do not turn back from your evils!

                                                        1.     Musa supplicated against Fir`awn and His Chiefs


Allah mentioned what Musa said when he prayed against Fir`awn and his chiefs after they refused to accept the truth. They continued to go astray and be haughty and arrogant. Musa said:


(Our Lord! You have indeed bestowed on Fir`awn and his chiefs splendor) and pleasure of this worldly life.


(and wealth) plentiful and abundant. Allah's statement,



(in the life of this world, Our Lord! That they may lead men astray from Your path.) was read with the word "Liyadillu'' and "Liyudillu.'' The first is with a Fathah over the Ya, meaning that "You have given them that while You know they would not believe in what You have sent me with to them. You did that so they would gradually be drawn away from the truth.'' As Allah said:



(that We may test them thereby.)(20:131) and (72:17). Others read the word with a Dammah over the Ya. (i.e. Liyudillu) This makes the Ayah mean: You have given them that so whoever You willed from among Your creatures will be tried. Those whom You wish to misguide would think that You have given them that because You loved them and You cared about them.''



("Our Lord! Destroy their wealth,'') Ibn `Abbas and Mujahid said: "They asked Allah to destroy their wealth.'' Ad-Dahhak, Abu Al-`Aliyah and Ar-Rabi`a bin Anas said: "Allah made their wealth into engraved stones as it was before.'' About Allah's statement,



(and harden their hearts) Ibn `Abbas said, "Harden their hearts means put a seal on them.''



(so that they will not believe until they see the painful torment.) This prayer was from Musa because he was angry for the sake of Allah and His religion. He prayed against Fir`awn and his chiefs when he was certain that there was no good in them. Similarly, Nuh prayed and said:



(My Lord! Leave not one of the disbelievers on the earth! If You leave them, they will mislead Your servants, and they will beget none but wicked disbelievers.) (71:26-27) Harun said "Amin'' to his brother's prayer. And Allah answered Musa's prayer. Allah said:



(Verily, the invocation of you both is accepted.) `in destroying Fir`awn's people.



(Verily I have answered your prayers (both of you). So you both keep to the straight way) So as I have answered your prayer, you should remain steadfast on My command.' Ibn Jurayj narrated that Ibn `Abbas said about this Ayah: "Be steadfast and follow My command.''



(90. And We took the Children of Israel across the sea, and Fir`awn with his hosts followed them in oppression and enmity, till when drowning overtook him, he (Fira`wn) said: "I believe that none has the right to be worshipped but He in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am one of the Muslims.'') (91. Now (you believe) while you refused to believe before and you were one of the mischief-makers. ) (92. So this day We shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea) that you may be a sign to those who come after you! And verily, many among mankind are heedless of Our Ayat.)



 
                                                   2.  The Children of Israel were saved and Fir`awn's People drowned


Allah tells us how He caused Fir`awn and his soldiers to drown. The Children of Israel left Egypt in the company of Musa. It was said that there were six hundred thousand soldiers, plus offspring. They borrowed a lot of ornaments from the Coptics and took that with them. Fir`awn became very angry with them. So he sent heralds to all the cities to send their soldiers. He embarked, following behind them, filled with great pride and with massive armies. Allah wanted this to happen for He had a plan for them. No one that had any authority or power remained behind in Fir`awn's kingdom. They were all together and caught the Children of Israel at sunrise.



(And when the two hosts met each other, the companions of Musa said: "We are sure to be overtaken.'') (26:61) They said that because when they got to the seashore Fir`awn was behind them. The two groups met face to face. The people with Musa kept asking, "How can we be saved today'' Musa replied, "I have been commanded to come this way.'' Musa said:



(Nay, verily, with me is my Lord. He will guide me.) (26:62) It had been so difficult, but it suddenly became easy. Allah commanded him to strike the ocean with his staff. He did and the sea was cleft asunder, each part stood like a mighty mountain. The sea was split into twelve paths, each route for each Israelite tribe. Allah then commanded the wind and the path was dry for them.



(And strike a dry path for them in the sea, fearing neither to be overtaken [by Fir`awn] nor being afraid (of drowning in the sea).)(20:77) The water in between the paths appeared as windows and every tribe was able to see the other so they would not think that others were destroyed. The Children of Israel crossed the sea. When the last one crossed, Fir`awn and his soldiers had arrived at the edge of the other shore. They were one hundred thousand black horses in addition to horsemen of other colors. When Fir`awn saw the sea he was frightened. He wanted to turn back, but it was too late. Allah's decree prevailed and the prayer of Musa was answered. Jibril came on a war stallion. He passed by Fir`awn's horse. Jibril's horse whinnied at Fir`awn's and then Jibril rushed into the sea, and Fir`awn did the same behind him. Fir`awn no longer had any control over matters. He wanted to sound strong before his chiefs, so he said: "The Children of Israel do not have more right in the sea.'' So they rushed into the sea. Mika'il was behind their army pushing them all to join. When they all were in the sea and the first of them was about to emerge on the other side, Allah, the All-Powerful, commanded the sea to strand them. The sea closed over them and none was saved. The waves took them up and down. The waves accumulated above Fir`awn and he was overwhelmed by the stupors of death. While in this state, he said:



(I believe that none has the right to be worshipped but He (Allah) in Whom the Children of Israel believe, and I am one of the Muslims.) He believed at a time when he couldn't benefit from his faith.


(So when they saw Our punishment, they said: "We believe in Allah Alone and reject (all) that we used to associate with Him as (His) partners.'' Then their faith could not avail them when they saw Our punishment. (Like) this has been the way of Allah in dealing with His servants. And there the disbelievers lost utterly (when Our torment covered them).)(40:84-85) Therefore Allah said, as a response to Fir`awn,



(Now (you believe) while you refused to believe before) do you say that just now when you have disobeyed Allah before that.



(And you were one of the mischief-makers.) You were among the makers of mischief on the earth who misled the people.



(and We made them leaders inviting to the Fire: and on the Day of Resurrection, they will not be helped.) (28:41) These facts about Fir`awn and his status at that time were among the secrets of the Unseen that Allah revealed to His Messenger, Muhammad . Similarly Abu Dawud At-Tayalisi recorded that Ibn `Abbas said that Allah's Messenger said;



(Jibril said to me, "If you could have seen me while I was taking black mud from the sea and placing into the mouth of Fir`awn out of fear that the mercy would reach him.'') Abu `Isa At-Tirmidhi and Ibn Jarir also recorded it. At-Tirmidhi said, "Hasan Gharib Sahih.'' About Allah's statement,



(So this day We shall deliver your (dead) body (out from the sea) that you may be a sign to those who come after you!) Ibn `Abbas and others from among the Salaf have said: "Some of the Children of Israel doubted the death of Fir`awn so Allah commanded the sea to throw his body -- whole, without a soul -- with his known armor plate. The body was thrown to a high place on the land so that the Children of Israel could confirm his death and destruction.'' That is why Allah said,



("So this day We shall deliver your, '') meaning that We will put your body on a high place on the earth. Mujahid said,



(your (dead) body) means, `your physical body. "



(that you may be a sign to those who come after you!) meaning, so that might be a proof of your death and destruction for the Children of Israel. That also stood as a proof that Allah is All-Powerful, in Whose control are all the creatures. Nothing can bear His anger. Fir`awn and his people were destroyed on the day of `Ashura', as recorded by Al-Bukhari, Ibn `Abbas said, "When the Prophet arrived at Al-Madinah, the Jews fasted the day of `Ashura'. So he asked,



(What is this day that you are fasting) They responded `This is the day in which Musa was victorious over Fir`awn.' So the Prophet said,




(You have more right to Musa than they, so fast it.)


(93. And indeed We settled the Children of Israel in an honorable dwelling place, and provided them with good things, and they differed not until the knowledge came to them. Verily, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection in that in which they used to differ.)
 

I AM WAITING FOR YOUR SUBMISSION TO ALLAH IN THE WAY OF AL ISLAM. or your arrogant and unrepenting and unreflective heartedness. Either way you choose, ALLAH THE ALMIGHTY IS THE MAJORITY AND CAPABLE TO CARRY OUT HIS WILL!

Islam affirms that Moses (Musa) was given a revelation, the Torah, which Muslims call Tawrat in Arabic, and believe to be the word of God. However, they also believe that this original revelation was modified (tahrif, literally meaning corrupted) over time by Jewish and Christian scribes and preachers.

Doesn't mean it true. Little minds

@Cgift

You said that you would provide the verses from the OT where it was prophesised that Jesus would be nailed/crucified and resurrect after three (3) days but you havent provided same.

Who said anything about KD?
 I don't live in KD.

And because you wrote seven hundred paragraphs doesn't prove anything. I quoted a Muslim cleric.

If you don't know you better ask somebody.

@olabowale,


Rubbish! Everything in Islam that has been shamed for its fallacy is automatically threatened with a "torment of fire" under the guise that anyone is lying against Muhammad! When Muhammad lied against others, who threatened him? All these dubious threats are empty bloviates - just rest them and let's hear word!


Don't you see how rigid you are in your belly-dance? At first you tried to argue that Muhammad did not copy or plagiarize Biblical narratives (nevermind that he made such a shoddy job at it . . probably because there were no Rank Xerox devices back then).

But now, contrary to your arguement, you're asking people to look at the narration through the hand of Moses! You wan steal Moses comot from Bible again, as you tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible? Is it not in the Bible you find Moses. . . abi na magazine Muhammad copy the narratives from?


Dunce! Where will your lies get you? The Bible never presents a multiple of "godheads" - and I have pointed that fact out to you before: it is not a plurality of GodheadSSS!! When you look at the OT, the word 'God' is rendered in the plurality of majesty - Elohim - click on the link highlighted and read the article excerpted below:

Elohim (אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים ) is a Hebrew word which expresses concepts of divinity. It is apparently related to the Hebrew word ēl, though morphologically it consists of the Hebrew word Eloah (אלוה) with a plural suffix. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible. . . In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, ",  Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush , "), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar, and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה)

There - get the facts right before embarrassing your age!


Kai! . . . Horses interracting - Muhammad was a cunnying fabricator! He loves to captivate his illiterate Arab audience with such fabu in order to sell his bloviates to them! Did he not accuse the same Arabs in the Qur'an of being the most ignorant and hypocritical of his declarations (Q. 9:97)?

Sorry, the Biblical narratives from where Muhammad stole them do not have Jibril and Makail. . . nor horses interracting! When you reproduce the tales of Muhammad, then you dash to the same tafsirs that have only refined the fabrications and served the gullible minds of Muslims with such garboil. What was the significance of the interracting horses, according to you, olabowale? Why do Muslims like to retell these tales with tongue in cheek?

@olabowale,


You Muslims have always tried to compare your holy book to the Bible and thereby use the fallacies of Muhammad to judge the revelations of the Biblical prophets. Even after we have shown several times that Muhammad was a false prophet because he denied the revelations that God gave to those prophets, it is interesting that you are still circulating your propaganda that 'Jesus and Muhammad are brothers', the latter succeeding the former in Messengership!

We all known that Muhammad claimed to have been 'brothers in prophethood' with the Biblical prophets, and yet he was living an opposite lifestyle, teaching contradictory things from what those prophets taught, and also confessing what was directly contrary to the testimony of the Biblical prophets! That is typically the style of the Quraish prophet who went about fabricating tales that no Muslim is able to coherently authenticate! Jesus is the MESSIAH ("the Christ" - and therefore the SAVIOUR of the world).

You remember that Muhammad believed that he was demon-possessed, don't you? He constantly prayed to his 'Allah' to deliver him from his demons (or, according to him, "deliver me from my devils"*)! Now tell me, olabowale: how could a self-confessed demon possessed man be ranked as "brother in prophethood" to the Biblical prophets who were NOT demon-possessed?!? How could a demon-possessed man ever have duped you into believing that he succeeded Jesus in 'messengership'? How do you rank a demon-possessed man with the Saviour of the world?

Your fallacies are not worth wasting time over! You need to go sit down and school yourself on the sort of man Muhammad confessed himself to be. . . the evidence are there in your reverred books.


Actually, I purposely posted my first entry in this thread to address you directly, because I anticipated you would hide behind the fallacy that Jesus "announced" the coming of a prophet whose name is 'Ahmad' (Qur'an 61:6). Let me help you get this one straight: that again was a dubious claim made by Muhammad in his attempt to smuggle himself into the Bible - the same Bible that Muslims are falling over themselves to castigate!

If there had been an independent source of confirmation, then we could have something to verify whether or not Jesus ever made such a pronouncement! That independent source has to be other than what Muhammad said in the Qur'an - and we would then have to go to the Bible to check out what Jesus actually said! Is there any verse in the Bible where Jesus made the statement that Muhammad fabricated in the Qur'an (Qur'an 61:6)?

You just assumed that everyone is as gullible as the Arabs whom Muhammad accused of being "the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy" and "most fitted to be in ignorance" (Qur'an 9:97). It is to such people that Muhammad could sell his fabricated tales - and they swallowed them hook-line and sinker! There are no verses in the Bible that verify Muhammad's statements - whether as concerning what he attributed to Moses, Jesus, or any one of the Biblical prophets! He was a false prophet who went about denying what those prophets taught while pretending to believe in all the prophets (Qur'an 2:136)! Worse than plagiarizing Biblical narratives, he made an utter mess of his assertions such that even his own companions were confused as to whether he made any sense at all!

What 'spiritual sense' does it then make to you that such tales of Muhammad (which he pretended as "revelations" from 'Allah') would come close to the revelations of the Biblical prophets?

@pilgrims.1







Sister, you have nothing sensible to say but just twisting thread and posting long irrelevant rejoinder. For a start in what way can the bible stands the quran, do we make reference to the un-resolved contradictions from the bible when your sister exposed the lies in the book and I provided detailed rebuttal to same but no response yet, should we have a look at the pornographies in your holy book, case of incest, lies against prophets, false prophecies attributed to Jesus, inability to defend the authors of some letters called revelations in your book, plagiarism in your book etc. Common, wise up and stop deceiving yourself. Remember in one of threads I asked you to provide me what the revelation given to Moses and Jesus contained but till you havent done so. When  you wake up from your slumber, let me know what it contains and I will provide the revelations from the Quran. Also to teach you part of what your bible never taught you. I also asked you to tell me the letters written by different historians in the NT are part of the revelation given to Jesus but have not seen your response since.

So back to the issue at hand.






Sister, you may nail yourself till eternity for all I care. Please let me play with you a little, since you are that dense  to realise that all prophets are brothers; do they come with different message (that reminds me, this will be discussed in my two topics coming: who disorganised religion, there I will give to the contradictory statements of Pual in your and secondly, do prophets come with one message)





Can I have part of the opposite lifestyle he lived and contradicting things he taught? When you are able to provide the information needed, I will then take you down to memory lane, giving you bit by bit sayings, lifestyles of OT prophets and we use that to compare that of Muhammad.





Keep confusing yourself. Thank God that you acknowledge the fact that Jesus is being referred to as Al-Masih but please since you are always quick at admitting and using that as part of your evidence of his messengership, why not read others verses and chapters that exposed your bible,speak on who Jesus really is. Grab the Quran and religiously read Quran Chapter 3 and Chapter 5 and you will learn all that your bible failed in teaching you.




O my Sister, I am now seeing that you post without having a re-think of what you are sending. You are here crying when you have not been able to defend the verses referring to Muhammad as the successor of Jesus in your bible and please how does Jesus became the saviour of the world when he couldnt save himself, he ran from the enemies when he learnt that they wanted to kill, he begged God to spare him, he told his disciples to buy swords but when one of them struck a soldier, he told him to put the sword back because he never believed that up to 500 people would be coming for his arrest, hope you also note how he arranged his disciples to be watching over the enemies, remeber that he shouted to his creator that why did he forsake him and here you are saying that he was a saviour. In addition, if he was a saviour and he can do anything himself, he could have commanded the fig tree to bear fruit right away rather than cursing the old tree (remember that story when he was hungry and he went to the tree forgetting that trees do not bear fruit in that season but found no fruit on it). Please how come he was your saviour?





Is that supposed to be for you that is very fond of twisting verses and hadith? Did you see the palgiariam I served you in this particular thread? You need to read them and get back at me.





Sister, keep confusing and swimming in the ocean of deception. Funny how you deny that verses but accept the other verses especially that on Messiah. What sort of dishonesty is that? Please how could he have written the Quran when he was a stark illiterate? Ponder on that please.






Can we have the verse typed here for the bebefit of those that do not have access to the Quran?




Still on the same issue. You are aware that he was an illiterate, so how did he copied and how did you believe the verse on Al-Masih and other verses but your fraud did not allow to accept other verses.




Can I have some of the statements you are referring to?





Can you serve me that please? Did OT prophets teach Trinity and if they do, let me have the verses.





Serve me that please. Remember that in the bible, they taught that Jesus was mad. So serve me what I requested please.




Sister, should we start from the contradictions in your bible, incest, pornographies, love poems in your bible, killing spree in the bible, false prophecies attributed to Jesus that never materialised, lack of laying hands to the true writer of those gospels etc.

What revelations are you referring to? Do you have proof that the revelations are actually those given to them?

Thanks

@Pilgrim.1: Even the Jews know that Muhammad and his followers claimed Moses for Islam! Your
complaint is surprising to me. You as a Christian don't even believe Moses to be a prophet anyhow!
Am sure that you will swallow the bait that I just put up there for you. Then i will nail you with it. I am
playing with your Brother eldee, who is discriminating between between the actions of Moses and
others in the Old testament versus the action of Jesus in the New testament! I just set him up to
tell us if OT is still relevant, since you have the NT! You can pick up the matter if you dare! The two
should not disagree with each other. Should it? When they do, which one should we accept as current?
Or are you trying to tell us that there is the practice of abrogation between the OT and NT? If this is yes,
I will start a thread on it, because it will just might bring out the best in you. lol.

This is Pilgrim.1 statement to me: @olabowale,

Quote from: olabowale on December 13, 2007, 12:48 PM
@ At all those who are claiming Muhammad (as) plagiarised Jewish, Christian or any other religions materials, please put up or shut up! You can't make a claim and be unable to back it up. A torment of fire as punishment is awaiting anyone who tells a lie against any Prophet and Messenger of Allah the God Almighty.

Rubbish!  Everything in Islam that has been shamed for its fallacy is automatically threatened with a "torment of fire" under the guise that anyone is lying against Muhammad! When Muhammad lied against others, who threatened him? All these dubious threats are empty bloviates - just rest them and let's hear word! ********(Pilgrim, you love the British tone. It is very easy for you to say Rubbish as if it means much to a fella like me! I am only warning you because all the prettiness will soon fade. Then its time to face the judgement of GOD! Will you be ready? It is Hatman decree to pass on the Wariduha aleyha. It is situated over Hellfire! You cannot know Arabia more than Arabs. So all your argument will amount to nothing here. Definitely, those who holds your viewpoints are liars! E nu opuro ki she je! Remember that one? I will let you hear words. Mo ti gbo. Iya mi. lol.


Quote from: olabowale on December 13, 2007, 12:48 PM
Below is the Qur'an narration of the end of Pharaoh, through the hand of Prophet Moses.

Don't you see how rigid you are in your belly-dance?  At first you tried to argue that Muhammad did not copy or plagiarize Biblical narratives (nevermind that he made such a shoddy job at it . . probably because there were no Rank Xerox devices back then). ******(Show me in the narration from the Bible that Pharaoh's body was found? Since Qur'an narration says that Pharaoh's body was thrown from the water, as to show it to the children of Israel that he actually died, so that they can now rest and that his dead body will be a sign for future generation as to the end of this evil man. And it was not until this portion of the Qur'an was revealed that the Egyptians found Pharaoh on a mountain, completely intact! To me, Qur'anic narration on this matter is more thorough and complete. Whereas the Biblical account, is like an incomplete summary! The Lord Who made Moses victorious is the Lord that generously revealed this episode to Muhammad, so that it could be a better story than what the OT said about the same matter!

But now, contrary to your arguement, you're asking people to look at the narration through the hand of Moses! You wan steal Moses comot from Bible again, as you tried to smuggle Muhammad into the Bible?  Is it not in the Bible you find Moses. . . abi na magazine Muhammad copy the narratives from?
******(I found the narration of Moses victory over Pharaoh in the Qur'an! My dear not in the Bible! The story was half stepping in the Bible! You Christians don't believe in the OT anyway. If you did quote to me the first three commandments and relate it to your 3 godhead(s) in 1 GOd. Tell me how that is related to having an offspring? Tell me how that GOd has a mother, at least from the Catholic viewpoint? Afterall, the protestants came from the Catholic! Tell me how this god is being painted on a cross? Tell me how this Supreme God was beat up? Tell me how this God died? Tell me, Pilgrim!

Quote from: olabowale on December 13, 2007, 12:48 PM
Please compare it to that in the OT. Unfortunately, the Christians believe part of the OT and disbelieve the remaining part, which directly
points out, to them, that God Almighty is One. There are no multiply godhead(s)!

Dunce! Where will your lies get you? The Bible never presents a multiple of "godheads" - and I have pointed that fact out to you before: it is not a plurality of GodheadSSS!! When you look at the OT, the word 'God' is rendered in the plurality of majesty - Elohim - click on the link highlighted and read the article excerpted below: *****(Alhamdulillah. I am a Dunce! I am getting to you. Thats not my objective. I want God Almighty Allah the Supreme to affect your heart. You have not been able to justify with straight face and clear heart that Jesus and the  holy Spirit, both which are created instruments of God the Almighty  can be part of God! If you try, you will see that when you  said that  Jesus died, then it would have been that part of God died. Which would have meant that God would have been incomplete, not whole at that time. He probably would have lost  some of His power. If He was complete in authority regardless of what happened to Jesus, then, Jesus was therefore rendered irrelevant. Unimportant to the Majestic nature of God Almighty!I had spoke to Jews, from orthodoxy to the ultra liberal, none believes that Jesus is more than a teacher at best! Some do not even dare to vocalise  what they call God Almighty!


Elohim (אֱלוֹהִים , אלהים ) is a Hebrew word which expresses concepts of divinity. It is apparently related to the Hebrew word ēl, though morphologically it consists of the Hebrew word Eloah (אלוה) with a plural suffix. Elohim is the third word in the Hebrew text of Genesis and occurs frequently throughout the Hebrew Bible. . . In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, ",  Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush , "), it acts as a singular noun in Hebrew grammar, and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah (אלוה)

There - get the facts right before embarrassing your age! (Omode shi ni mi, lodo Iya ni, my 80something year old cousin, my older brothers and sisters, who are in their late 50s and climbing to almost 80! I will embarrase myself if thaembarrasst you and others thinking that Jesus was not more than a Prophet!


Quote from: olabowale on December 13, 2007, 12:48 PM
From Chapter 10, verses 88 through 92, (Surah Yunusa), we see how Allah the Almighty destroyed Fir'aun and his forces. Only Musa and his his stick, with his older brother Haruun, being supported by Jibril and Mikail, brought to an abrupt end a before a strong mighty dynasty! Notice the full details; you will read about the horse of Jibril interracting with the horse of Pharaoh. (From Tafsir ibn Kathir; Qur'an verses and some related Hadith/Sunnah).

Kai! . . .  Horses interracting - Muhammad was a cunnying fabricator! He loves to captivate his illiterate Arab audience with such fabu in order to sell his bloviates to them! Did he not accuse the same Arabs in the Qur'an of being the most ignorant and hypocritical of his declarations (Q. 9:97)? *****(Do you know anything about equestrian or horses, in a general sense? Note that when Jibril and Mikail arrived, it was already a forgone conclusion, a hatman degree was already on it. Pharaoh and his army were already written to be perished. The horses of Pharaoh himself and even Pharaoh had become things working against the evil Soul and heart of Pharaoh! Jibril and Mikail and their horses were not visible to the Egyptians, so your argument is exactly how a disbeliever argues. God is alway capable of carrying out  His plan.

Sorry, the Biblical narratives from where Muhammad stole them do not have Jibril and Makail. . . nor horses interracting! When you reproduce the tales of Muhammad, then you dash to the same tafsirs that have only refined the fabrications and served the gullible minds of Muslims with such garboil. What was the significance of the interracting horses, according to you, olabowale? Why do Muslims like to retell these tales with tongue in cheek?  *****(First, and again the Bible missed important facts of this event. Sorry, if Muhammad said that Jibril and Mikail were in the event of the destruction of pharaoh and his army, I believe it. Afterall, Muhammad saw Jibril, in his angelic form and non angelic form! He also knew Mikail. The horses were also part of the complete machine  that brought doom to Pharaoh.You put God down too much by limiting His Power to do all things.

You see, Pilgrim.1, Islam is the Ph. D/D. Sc. of religion. Those who study Yoruba in Primary school and never be compared to the people who study Yoruba and got Ph. D in  it at Ibada, Ife, Lagos, etc. You know where am going with this. I will respond to your Suratul safaat, using couples of verses from the Bible to substantiate my statement., because they address the same issue that verse 6 of Surah Safaat addresses.