Mohammed, Plagiarism And Other Stories.

@Nwando and Pilgrim.1: Please read what I wrote in response to Pilrim above!
Never mind how presented it, is the content that matters.

I mostly encourage myself to read his rejoinders. they seem to be lost inbetween other people's responses.v 

If you are not patient with me, who will then, among your Christian folks?
Thank God, your long suffering ala carte, me is over. But am worried about
your early preparation for the hereafter!

olabolawale , although I recently got to know of your present on this post and others.

I will simply tell you that , do you really believe everything you are talking about. It doesn't matter whether or not you are born into islam. Once you know the truth it becomes your responsibility to act on the truth.

So you see since only either of the Bible or the Quran is true, then it means that any reference by either of them to each must then be wrong.

You know that Quran refers to Biblical individuals while the Bible makes no such references , Yet for only one of them to be the Truth no reference must be made from either to another or else it simply exposes as false that one that makes the reference.

I can only hope that GOD (of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob) would open your eyes , because whether or not you are practising something for 1 million years makes no difference because must effort doing the wrong never makes it the right thing.

@SysUser





What truth are you referring to sister?




You are getting yourself confused. The Quran came after the original messages revealed to earlier prophets were tampered with. It came to correct all what they have been saying about Jesus, early prophets and to accept the last book and the last prophet.




Sister, point of correction, reference can be made from one to another since the same creation sent all the prophets with one message. Go through the bible and you would learnt it has similar story in some aspects just like the Quran. The original message has been distorted hence the coming of the last book to correct those mistakes.




His eyes is already opened but you need to search yourself if you are really doing God's will which is Islam.

You also need to know the essence/purpose of creation, mankind etc in which I know you will never find the answer in your bible and when you do, you will know that life without Islam and not being a muslim is a wasteful life because God said that he did not create human beings and Jinn except to worship him.So if you are aware of this, you will quickly get reverted to Islam so that you benefit on that Day.

And if i may ask which of the conflicting versions of Bible did Mohammed(SAW) copied, the Goodnews, KIng JAmes and several others. I wonder which one of this conflicting sects we claimed true believer of Jesus when he comes

it is doubtful if these 'analysts of islam' are capable of original thoughts. it would seem they have nothing better to do than copy and paste from prophet of doom and recycle christian myths that have existed since the Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammed.

fortunately, the internet works both ways -


http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBbible.html

Question:

 

As-salamu `alaykum

First I would like to congratulate you on the wonderful site you have. May Allah bless you and grant you Paradise for that!

I have two questions. First, how did Muhammad (peace be upon him) receive the revelation? I ask this because some Christians say that as he received the revelation only in his fortieth year, he must have been memorizing the Bible all that time until he said he had received the revelation. So my question is how can I prove that this allegation is wrong?

Also they say (on a Christian Web site) that there is proof for this because the Prophet used to add words to different chapters at different times, as he never completed a surah in one go. What answer can I give them?

Secondly, if the Prophet was asked by Allah to seek forgiveness as is mentioned in the Qur’an, how can the Muslims believe that he was sinless?

Jazakum Allah khayran.

 

Answer:

 

Salam, Khan.

Thank you very much for your questions.

It is true that Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) received his first revelation in his fortieth year. And it is true that both the books of the Bible and the Qur’an cover much common ground. It is also true that in the course of 23 years, verses were revealed to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be on him) on different occasions and that he asked his followers to put these verses in particular places in different chapters. All this is true. But the conclusion of the Christian critics that the Prophet had been memorizing Biblical verses during the first 40 years of his life in order to fabricate the Qur’an is untenable for the following reasons:

1. There was no Arabic translation of the Bible available during the Prophet’s time. For a detailed account of this subject, read the article: Is The Bible Really The Source of The Qur’an?

Ernst Würthwein informs us in his book, The Text Of The Old Testament:

“With the victory of Islam the use of Arabic spread widely and for Jews and Christians in the conquered lands it became the language of daily life. This gave rise to the need of Arabic versions of the Bible, which need was met by a number of versions mainly independent and concerned primarily for interpretation.” (Ernst Würthwein, The Text Of The Old Testament (Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1988, pp. 104.)

Thus, the first translations of the Hebrew Bible in Arabic appeared after the advent of Islam. In fact, the oldest dated manuscript of the Old Testament in Arabic dates from the first half of the ninth century.

What about the New Testament?

Sidney H Griffith, who has done extensive research on the appearance of Arabic and the New Testament says:

“The oldest dated manuscript containing the Gospels in Arabic is Sinai Arabic MS 72. Here the text of the four canonical Gospels is marked off according to the lessons of the temporal cycle of the Greek liturgical calendar of the Jerusalem Church. A colophon informs us that the MS was written by Stephen of Ramleh in the year 284 of the Arabs, i.e., 897 AD.” (Sidney H Griffith, The Gospel in Arabic: An Enquiry into Its Appearance in the First Abbasid Century, Oriens Christianus, Volume 69, p. 131-132.)

2. It is well-known that the Prophet did not know how to read or write: he was illiterate. So there was no question of his plagiarizing the Bible, even if an Arabic copy did in fact exist in his time. What then of the charge that he was taught by some Christians?

Allah the Almighty answered the criticism fourteen centuries ago in these verses, which say what means:



*{Your Companion is neither astray nor being misled. Nor does he say [aught] of [his own] desire. It is no less than inspiration sent down to him. He was taught by One Mighty in power.}* (An-Najm 53:2–5)



To deny the divine origin of the Qur’an missionaries claim that Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) knew all the sources—Christian, Jewish, Zoroastrian, Hanif and ancient Arab beliefs—before he compiled the Qur’an. However, this ignores the simple fact of his illiteracy that was even acknowledged by the enemies of Islam 1400 years ago. Allah the Almighty also answered this in the Qur’an, when it says what means:



*{And thou wast not [able] to recite a Book before this [Book came] nor art thou [able] to transcribe it with thy right hand: in that case indeed would the talkers of vanities have doubted. Nay here are signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our signs.}* (Al-`Ankabut 29:48–49)



Despite all this, the missionaries have been repeating the same arguments, hoping to mislead the gullible. It was common knowledge in Makkah that the Prophet was illiterate, and there is no record of the pagan Arabs in Makkah accusing Muhammad (peace be upon him) of not being illiterate.

The reasons why the whole of the Qur’an was not revealed to the Prophet at one time are well known:

(1) It was only reasonable and realistic to reveal the guidance of Allah governing the individual and social lives of the gradually evolving Muslim society at the same pace as its stage-by-stage emergence in space and time. So verses had to be revealed to the Prophet depending upon the contexts demanding divine guidance.

(2) It was easier for the Prophet and his Companions to learn and imbibe the Qur’anic message as it was being revealed in small portions.

You also ask, “If the Prophet was asked by Allah to seek forgiveness, as is mentioned in the Qur’an, how can the Muslims believe that he was sinless?”

Please understand that Muslims do not believe that Muhammad (peace be on him) or any prophet for that matter was anything more than human. In this way we need not have any problem in recognizing any weakness in them that is characteristic of humans. But it is part of our belief that all prophets were protected by Allah from the usual failings of ordinary humans. Bear in mind that this is true not only of Muhammad, but also of all prophets including Abraham, Moses, and Jesus (peace and blessings be on them all).

Muhammad (peace and blessings be on him), as well as all other prophets, was a model for all humans in all walks of life. Only a human who is like all other humans can serve as a model for other humans. That is why most Christians who imagine Jesus to be God cannot emulate his life as perceived by the Christians. For instance, Jesus is reported to have fasted forty days and forty nights continuously. Can this form of fasting be an example for others to follow? It is important to note that the fasting of Muhammad is being followed by millions of his followers until today.

Allah says in the Qur’an that if He wanted to give humankind what they actually deserved, nobody would remain on the face of the earth. But Allah is All-Merciful. Islam is meant for humans, and it is clearly stated in the Qur’an that Allah created humans as weak creatures. The Qur’an says what means:



*{God doth wish to lighten your [difficulties], for man was created weak [in flesh].}* (An-Nisaa’ 4:28)


So it is only natural that humans need divine guidance to keep themselves free from sins. And Allah in His infinite mercy allows us to continue to live here even after we disobey Him again and again. Now the life of a prophet is a practical demonstration of how to live according to divine guidance. Allah taught the prophet not only to do good things, but to avoid all bad things and to seek His forgiveness for any mistakes or lapses on his part as a human being. So no one, not even the Prophet, is exempt from seeking Allah’s forgiveness. And that is the reason why Muhammad (peace be upon him) was asked to seek Allah’s forgiveness.

May Allah forgive us all and show us the right way!

Thank you and please keep in touch.

Salam.

http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/BBdefense.html

Assalamu-alaikum wa rahamatullahi wa barakatuhu:

The Qur'ân is made up of 114 Surahs: only 27 of them were revealed in Madinah while the remaining 87 were revealed in Makkah or some other nearby locations. It is to be reminded that the Jews were in Madinah and the Christians were in Najran and Yemen. There was no seat of Christianity in Mecca, in al-Hijaz nor in Madinah as stated by Bell:

, in spite of traditions to the effect that the picture of Jesus was found on one of the pillars of Ka'aba, there is no good evidence of any seats of Christianity in the Hijaz or in the near neighbourhood of Makkah or even of Madina.[1]

Dr. Nabîh Aqel, a Professor of Arabic and Islamic History, University of Damascus, states in his book Tarîkh al-cArab al-Qadîm:

The big difference between Christianity and Judaism is that Christianity unlike Judaism didn't have any bases in Hijaz , Christianity was an external source of enlightenment echoed in Hijaz either by missionary activities form Ethiopia, Syria and Iraq or from Alheerah's Christian centres; dair Hind al-Kubra [the order of Hind al-Kubra] - Um Amro al-Mundhir [the order of Um Amro] - Dair Hind al-Sugra [the order of Hind al-Sugra]) or from some of the scattered churches in Bahrain, al-Yamamah and Yemen.[2]

Ibn Ishâq narrated also in al-Sîrah al-Nabawiyyah, speaking about four people from Quraysh (Mecca) who were among the generation that preceded the Prophet Muhammad(P) and who had abandoned their people's faith (paganism) and went in search for their Haneefite roots.

These four men were Waraqah bin Nawfal, cAbdullâh bin Jahsh, cUthmân bin al-Huarith and Zaid bin Amro who said to each other "you know that your people had deviated from the religion of your father Abraham" and decided to search for their Haneefite roots and they "scattered into different countries seeking the Haneefite religion, the religion of Abraham". Ibn Ishâq said that Waraqah bin Nawfal had converted to Christianity as a result of his search. [3]

The migration of these four men out of Mecca shows that the city was completely a pagan society for if there was any significant Christian or Jewish presence in Mecca, it wouldn't be necessary for these men to travel in search for it.

Yet another piece of evidence is that during the period of Christian influence and power in Yemen, from Najran to Abyssinia (Ethiopia), history narrates to us the famous attempt of a great Christian army to conquer Mecca.  This army from Yemen was supported by elephants and was lead by Abraha, the Abyssinian.  The doomed invasion occurred in the same year that the Prophet Muhammad(P) was born ,and later came to be known amongst the Arabs as the Year of the Elephant.  The army's aim was to vanquish Mecca, destroy the Ka'aba (the holy shrine built by Abraham(P) and his son Ismâcîl(P)) and then to convert the pagan Arabs to Christianity.  Once this was accomplished, they could force them to make pilgrimage to the great church named al-Qulais that Abraha had built in Yemen for this purpose.

Ibn Ishâq in al-Sîrah al-Nabawiyyah under the title The Story of the Elephant said:

Then Abraha built the "Qulais" in San'a, it was a church that people never saw its like in their time, then he wrote to the Abyssinian king; "I built for you O king, a church that no king had before you, and I'll not stop until I make the Hajj - that the Arabs perform to Ka'aba - shifted to it, "[4]

Dr Helmi Mahroos Ismâcîl in his book al-Sahrq al-'Arabi al-Qadîm writes:

Abraha worked hard on spreading Christianity among the Yemens, he built many churches there the most important of it all was the "Qulais" in Sana'a which the Abyssinian took as their capital in Yemen. Abraha tried to make the Arabs to perform Hajj to it.[5]

This Christian attempt lead by Abraha to destroy the Ka'bah corroborates that Mecca and al-Hijaz, in general, had no Christian or Jewish influence whatsoever even until the time the Prophet Muhammad(P) was born. Abraha had failed in his attempt to destroy the Ka'bah and this was a subject of a Qur'ânic Chapter as a Sign from God (Surat al-Fîl) :

Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the Companions of the Elephant? Did He not make their treacherous plan go astray? And He sent against them flights of Birds Striking them with stones of baked clay. Then did He make them like an empty field of stalks and straw (of which the corn) has been eaten up. [Qur'ân: 105]

Historians could not explain how this great army of Abraha didn't reach its goals in conquering the weak- and almost surrendered city of Mecca!!

The following provides an excerpt from a Yemenite archaeological site that mentions, in part, this incident. Walter W. Muller, a specialized researcher in ancient Arabian history, under the subject Outline of the History of Ancient Southern Arabia, says:

Muller says: "Southern Arabia became an Abyssinian dominion, first under the local Christian vassal simyafa then under the former Abyssinian General Abreha (Abraha). In 542 ,  An inscription dated 547, reporting of a campaign against the rebellious Maadd in Central Arabia (Ry 506). States that Abreha had already styled himself king. The most recently dated inscription of the Himyarite era (CIH 325) is from A.D. 554. It virtually marks the end of the well-documented ancient Southern Arabian epoch and heralds the decline of the Sabeo-Himyarite empire,  Towards the end of his reign, Abreha launched yet another military campaign against the North which has been preserved in the memory of the Arabs because of the elephants accompanying it. Abreha failed to take Mecca as he had intended and the operation had to be abandoned."

Without giving any reason why Abraha had failed in capturing Mecca even though it had surrendered!

Bernard Lewis in his book The Middle East: 2000 Years Of History From The Rise Of Christianity To The Present Day, writes:

Newly converted, the Ethiopians were fervent in their Christianity and responded eagerly to Byzantine embassies. Unfortunately for the Ethiopians, they were not able to complete the task assigned to them. They succeeded initially in crushing and destroying the last independent state in southern Arabia, and opening the country to Christian and other external influences, but they were not strong enough to maintain it. They had even tried to advance northwards from the Yemen, and in 507 CE had attacked Mecca, a Yemenite trading post on the caravan route to the north. The Ethiopians failed and were defeated, and a little later the Persians came to the Yemen in their place.[6]

For further information on the story of this Christian campaign against Mecca a reference is made in al-Seerah al-Nabawiyyah. Below is a pre-Islamic poem from the same source that preserved the event by a person who had witnessed it. The poet Nufail bin Habeeb was there when the event took place and met with the fleeing soldiers of Abraha's army who asked him the directions to Yemen:



The poem can be roughly translated as follows:

Greetings Rudainah (A female name) we have been pleased with an early morning view. We had received - a seeker of fire - from your side (the word Qabis is used for a person who seeks fire or wood to be used as a source of light at night) but he could not find anything here. O Rudainah! if you have seen what we have seen near al-Muhasab (a location between Mecca and Mina) you would excuse me and not be saddened with what happened in the past between us. I thanked God when I saw the birds and I was afraid of stones that was thrown on us. And they (Abraha's men) were asking about me (to show them the way) as if I was owing them some previous debts.[7]

Bernard Lewis also gave a brief summary on how al-Hijaz looked before the advent of Islam saying the weakness that hit the empires of the north and the south lead to the state that later came to be known to Arabs as al-Jahiliyyah (the days of ignorance).

The militant Christian monarchy which had emerged in Ethiopia developed a natural interest in the events on the other side of the Red Sea [Yemen]. Persians were, of course, always concerned to counter Roman or Christian - for them, the two were much the same - influence.

By this time even these remote outposts of Mediterranean civilization were influenced by the general economic decline of the ancient world,  At least part of the reason for this decline in Arabia must be sought in the loss of interest by both rival imperial powers. During the long period from 384 to 502 CE when Rome and Persia were at peace, neither was interested in Arabia or in the long, expensive and hazardous trade routes that passed through its deserts and oases. Trade routes were diverted elsewhere, subsidies ceased, caravan traffic came to an end, and towns were abandoned. Even settlers in the oases either migrated elsewhere or reverted to nomadism. The drying-up of trade and the reversion to nomadism lowered the standard of living and of culture generally, and left Arabia far more isolated from the civilized world than it had been for a long time. Even the more advanced southern part of Arabia also suffered, and many southern nomadic tribes migrated to the north in hope of better pasturage. Nomadism had always been an important element in Arabian society. It now became predominant. This is the period to which Muslims give the name Jahiliyya, the Age of Ignorance, meaning by that of course to contrast it with the Age of Light, Islam. It was a dark age not only in contrast with what followed, but also with what went before. And the advent of Islam in this, sense may be seen as a restoration and is indeed presented as such in the Qur'ân - as a restoration of the religion of Abraham.[8]

Although the above excerpt paints a very dark image of how the situation was in Arabia before Islam, it is not totally true. The great amount of cultural heritage left by the Arabs of al-Hijaz represented, for example, by their literature shows that the term al-Jahiliyyah is not descriptive and was mainly used to mean the decline in the social/ethical standards, but nothing else.

Furthermore; the failure of the Christian Abyssinian army of Abraha to capture Mecca made the pagan Arabs glorify the city even more. Mecca was mainly a pagan society that worshipped stones and trees, yet still believed in a Supreme God.  As the Qur'ân makes clear, they believed that their false gods and idols were a means of getting nearer to God: 

Is it not to Allah that sincere devotion is due? But those who take for protectors other than Allah (say): "We only serve them in order that they may bring us nearer to Allah." Truly Allah will judge between them in that wherein they differ. But Allah guides not such as are false and ungrateful. [Qur'ân: 39:3]

The historical evidence plus the internal evidence of the Qur'ân proves beyond any doubt that there was no Christian nor Jewish influence in al-Hijaz, in general, and in Mecca, in particular. So how was Muhammad(P) borrowing from the Bible when the non-existence of any Arabic Bible or Arabic apocryphal sources has been proven?

Again the Qur'ân denies that someone was teaching the Prophet(P) and at the same time points to the fact that the language is foreign.

We know indeed that they say "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notable foreign while this is Arabic pure and clear. Those who believe not in the Signs of Allah Allah will not guide them and theirs will be a grievous Penalty. [Qur'ân 16:103-104]

Had someone been teaching Prophet Muhammad(P), his family and close friends would have eventually known.  However, far from being skeptical about his claims to prophethood, these people gave their wealth and lives for Islam.

In Sûrah Fussilat, the Qur'ân explains the reason why the revelation is in Arabic. This is to make sure that the people who were experiencing it could not make excuses.

Had We sent this as a Qur'ân (in a language) other than Arabic they would have said: "Why are not its verses explained in detail? What! (a Book) not in Arabic and (a Messenger) an Arab?" Say: "It is a guide and a healing to those who believe; and for those who believe not there is a deafness in their ears and it is blindness in their (eyes); they are (as it were) being called from a place far distant!" [Qur'ân 41:44]

Now with the absence of Jewish and Christian sources in Mecca, the question remains: who was teaching Muhammad(P) the stories of the old Prophets and Nations which were all revealed in Mecca as the following table shows:

@Nwando, Pilgrim.1, my main man Davidylan, etc: I just came across this piece below on a different thread. You need to Check it out. Then we can discuss the Bible, in details.
; Pay attention to Job 14;13, Job 1;8 and the explanation thereof. Interesting, eh?

Your defense for why quran have some similarities to the Bible is because the same person gave the information in them ,  and now because the person is trying to correct the mistake in one he/it has now brough the quran as a correction of previos mistakes.

It is very sad , self deceit and self indulgence that you putting your self through , Please :d tell that to a baby or a willing terrorist.

1 .The truth is that THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD cannot make a mistake, so he does not need to correct anything. 
So he does not need to give you another message later so as to correct mistakes of earlier versions are if na Microsoft Windows Update dey happenk,  "God is not man that He should lie neither is He a Son of man that she should repent" "Every single word that comes from the mouth of God shall not go unfufilled."
So you see you false god "allah" who has deceived you in believing that Jesus is a prophet , who has deceived you into believing that the quran is a corrected version of the bible that was supposedly corrupted, implies that your allah is not god :
, because a. he makes mistakes,  b. he is not powerful enough to protect keep his word hence he must employ all kind of tactics to do so eg. employ fanatics to kill in his name, e.g. reprint version 2.0 version 2.1 version 2.2 version 2.3 , versionx.x of his word everytime an ordinary man was powerful enough to overcome him/it that the man was able to change his word into something else.

2. God Almighty and allah are not the same, completely different, what allah promises you , muslims is not what our God Almighthy promised us christians simple .
e.g In Christian's Heaven there is no marriage, no given of wife, no terrorist with virgins, no sex
      In muslims's al'jana/heaven (actually its hell disguised to you as heaven), you promised virgins, sex, etc. hence why a lot of you after suffering yourself through self righteousness are desperate to go there after killing as many people as possible.

My Lord God Almighty , creator of Heaven and Earth, powerful and mighty.  His Word is Life. He is Love, He is a loving God and a consuming fire. He said we "Christians" should be at peace and be still to, ", "He is more than able to do abundantly more than we can ever ask for" > He wins our battles for use without us raising a finger. King Herod perished on his throne when he blashphemed, Walls of Jerico came down without the Isrealites using any caterpillar, the Red sea was parted to make way for the Isrealites to pass through. The armies of the pharaoh was destroyed because He made it so.
It is true ,  David is a man after God's own heart yet he comitted a sin and God punised him, Jacob deceived his father , to collect Esau's blessing, yet God still blessed him and made him a father of the nation of Isreal. Abraham through the slave Haggar gave birth to a Son called Ishmeal ,  yet God still gave him the Promised Child Isaac. through Sarah (Abraham's Wife). Nonetheless God still blessed Ishmeal and Ishmeal is still reaping part of the blessings of Abraham till today.  Ishmeal was the oldest (but was not the promised child) . Hagar was not Abraham's wife. Sarah was Abraham's wife, Hagar was Sarah's slave. (This might expliain why muslims have  slave mentality , haha, just kidding). Hagar was Ishmeal's mother.

Lord God Almighty is Full of Mercy and Grace hence He forgave David , hence he forgave Jacob, hence He forgives all sinners who come to Him through His one and only begotten Son Jesus Christ. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him would not perish but have everlasting life.

your mohammed could not promise you everlasting life becuase he was too ,  enjoying himself in the flesh and lying to you at every turn. The devil hates man hence the devil "allah" makes sure mohammed tells you muslims that you are servants (slaves) to him. mohammed or allah cannot give salvation for your souls,

At the name of Jesus every knee must bow and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is Lord


allah could not do all those hence mohammed has to go to war to physically fight for allah.
I find it funny that you know so much about the bible and so little about what you have believe "let me tell you much study does not bring much understanding". You can have brains, eyes, ears and yet still not see, hear, know and understand the truth.
As a matter of fact I am happy that you know a lot of the bible because it means that on the day of judgement you cannot , pretend as if you've not heard of Jesus.


Once again In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God and the Word was God, God has given you muslims, hindus, babalawos, etc His Word, for the redemption of your soul.

I am not interested in an an argument because that is not what would save your souls from everlasting destruction, I am interested in telling you about the Good News of Jesus Christ , that he came to shed His blood for you, because blood of ram, water cleansing , self punishment can never save you from your sins. All you have to do is confess your sins and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour.

We can go on forever , whereby you would tell me a million reasons why the Bible and quran are similar , THE TRUTH THEY ARE NOT , THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LIGHT OF THE WORD OF GOD (BIBLE) AND THE DARKNESS OF THE LIES OF THE DEVIL (QURAN).

The Word of God would set you free, DEVIL WILL ALWAYS WANT TO HOLD YOU IN BONDAGE.   


I pray that God have mercy on you and will send His Holy Spirit to redeem your soul, because the good thing our my Lord God Almighty is that He is slow to anger ,  and always ready to forgive you your sins (ignorant sins or not). My God would not stone you to death, My God would not put in bondage because you were worshipping Him.

Please olabowale stop wastin your energy repelling and reject the the Gospel of Christ that is able to save Your Body and Soul and Give you a reborn Spirit.

There is nothing like God of Old Testament , there is nothing like God of New Testament, It seems to me that you are frantically looking for excuses to not believe.

Excuses or not , it is irrelevant,

It is sad the virgins and sex are primary blessings in islam, it just goes to show why and how it is false ,

Muslims that are willing to read  a proof of why islam is false and the Bible is True can read the following:


It is good that (it seems) you read the bible in your bid to try and disprove the Gospel of Jesus Christ. So I hope you would go back to the same bible and the internet to cross check what I am about to tell you.

A Further proof of why you should consider giving your life to Christ and accepting and believing the truth of the bible can be given when you consider the fufillment of the bible prophesy about the man known as "Alexander the Great".

Daniel the Prophet of the TRUE AND LIVING GOD (GOD OF ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB) saw a second vision given by the Book of Daniel of (Daniel 8 verses 1 - and (Daniel 8 verses 15 - 22):

[
Dan 8:1  In the third year of the reign of king Belshazzar a vision appeared unto me, even unto me Daniel, after that which appeared unto me at the first.
Dan 8:2  And I saw in a vision; and it came to pass, when I saw, that I was at Shushan in the palace, which is in the province of Elam; and I saw in a vision, and I was by the river of Ulai.
Dan 8:3  Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
Dan 8:4  I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.
Dan 8:5  And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
Dan 8:6  And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
Dan 8:7  And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
Dan 8:8  Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
]

[
Dan 8:15  And it came to pass, when I, even I Daniel, had seen the vision, and sought for the meaning, then, behold, there stood before me as the appearance of a man.
Dan 8:16  And I heard a man's voice between the banks of Ulai, which called, and said, Gabriel, make this man to understand the vision.
Dan 8:17  So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.
Dan 8:18  Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright.
Dan 8:19  And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be.
Dan 8:20  The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.
Dan 8:21  And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.
Dan 8:22  Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.
]



The summary of what I want to tell you about the vision of Daniel is that IT WAS FUFILLED EXACTLY AND TRUTHFULL AS DANIEL HAS SEEN IT IN THE VISION.

The RAM in the vision was the kingdom of Medo-Persia
The GOAT in the vision was the old Grecian Empire
The notable/great horn between the eyes of the Goat (which is said to be the First King of the Grecian Empire)  was actually the person known as Alexander the Great.
The Grecian Empire was founded within the period of 13 years by Alexander the Great who literally conquered the whole Medo-Persian Empire
According to the vision when the Great Horn was stong it was broken, this represents the death of Alexander the Great.
Do you realise that He died soon, after the conquering of the Medo-Persian Empire.
The great horn was broken into 4 parts just like the Grecian Empire was broken into 4 parts after the deathe of Alexander the Great (the 4 parts were Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt)


You can confirm what I am telling from the Internet yourself,


So you if you want to sincere with yourself this one example of bible prohesy is enough to make your realise that THE BIBLE ONLY and TRUE WORD OF THE LIVING GOD,


STOP WASTING YOUR TIME AND LIFE WITH THE LIES AND DECEIT OF THE quran, mohammed and other rubbish, , YOU NOW HAVE A CHANCE TO MAKE SURE YOUR ETERNITY IS SECURED. PLEASE TAKE IT.

babs787 and olabowale please note that I am not against you as a person but I am against the spirit that is at work in you, I really pray and hope that the two of you and other muslims , hindus , buddist, False Christians, , etc would come to know Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

Again let me give you bible verse(es) and exhortation that show the false worship and believe as practised by muslims:

Why can't you worship your allah in a simple and normal without first washing yourself with water ,  facing east, praying five times a day.

Let me talk about the facing EAST issue with muslims, Take note muslims face the east (the sun or at least the rising of the sun) for their prayers and commit violence in the name of their false god called allah, now compare the abomination that muslims are doing to what the bible has to say in the book of Ezekiel.

[
Eze 8:15  Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
Eze 8:16  And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD'S house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
Eze 8:17  Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose.
Eze 8:18  Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them.
]


So you see that (ignorant or conscious worship of the sun / demons / devil) is what you muslims are doing. Also by your constant jihad and violence you have filled the land with violence, just like in Eze 8:17

Please I beg in you Repent, Confess your sins and accept the Lord Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, it doesn't matter whether or not you are born into Islam at least you now know the truth, don't continue in this abomination and sinful way of life. It is might be possible to forcefully convert people to little islam, yet in the long run it is not sustainable as the TRUTH WILL ALSO PREVAIL (The lies and deceit of islam (via mohammed, allah et al) becomes understandable when one realises that it is very dangerous for the life of  someone to convert away from islam. So that fear of repercussion would make people continue in what they blatantly know is a false belief.

It is not a coincidence that the prophecies of the bible about the end of days are coming to pass, it is not a coincidence the Christians still exist and are going to exist and reign with Christ despite the amount of killing, persecution, matrydom, estrangement , jailing , condemnation they have faced and are still facing from either their friends,family, relations, work place, country, government, kingdom.

I am happy to tell you that another prophecy would soon come to pass the prophecy is that about to be fufilled:

[Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. ]


Please babs787 and olabowale , the truth I would rather to you to win the superficial sense of victory in an argument, I am not interested in the superficial sense of victory I am more interested in the salvation of your souls, (as a result my responses to you is not geared towards trying to get any popularity or pety victory) I pray the Holy Spirit ministers to your soul and wins you over for Christ , because at the end of the day, that is really what matters.

All I am just trying to make you see ,  the falsehood that you have being living in.

There is much joy in heaven for every soul that is saved, your souls are more important that the argment about whether or not you believe that allah, quran, mohammed are false. allah, mohammed is false whether or not you believe is not the point.

I pray that God in His Mercies would have mercy on you and let His Holy Spirit bring you to understanding, repentances and salvation of your souls. Salvation does not come from how many good works you have done , salvation does not come from the excuse of knowing the truth, It is written "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one commeth to the Father except through me" Jesus is only way to God, not mohammed, not allah, not five daily prayers, not saka, saraa, not by going to stone the devil in saudi arabia, not by wearing skimpy trousers, not by keeping long beards, not by not drinking alcohol, not by not smoking, not by not having sex, not by giving people alms, etc all those things are works of righteousness , unfortunately it is written that "they are filthy rags before God". God's free gift of salvation through Christ is free ,  it cannot be bought or earned through allah, not through mohammed, not through suicide bombing, not through jihad, not through political power, not through being moral, instead it is simlpy through JESUS CHRIST, the one and only begotten of the FATHER.

[Eph 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: ]

Look if you afraid of losing all your comforts, pleasures, pride and priviledges , ask yourself which is more important. Is it your soul or the worldly riches. [Mar 8:36  For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?]


neither mohammed  nor allah has promised you anything that you can trust, the heaven (actually hell) that they have promised you is nothing but false sexual and materialistic desires (virgins for what) (I once read somewhere that he was having revelations while having sex with Aisha, haaaahhaaaaaa was it really revelation or just pure hallucination)

The heaven that My Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is promising you is true, in the heaven Jesus Christ has promise there os no marriage no sex :
Consider this bible verses as proof of why there is no sex in the TRUE "HEAVEN"
[Mat 22:24  Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
Mat 22:25  Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
Mat 22:26  Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
Mat 22:27  And last of all the woman died also.
Mat 22:28  Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
Mat 22:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30  For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. ]

[Joh 14:2  In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. ]

[Rev 21:1  And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.] Jesus Christ has promised you for a certainty what you are going to have waiting for you as a believer:
[Rev 21:2  And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ]
[Rev 21:10  And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11  Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Rev 21:12  And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
Rev 21:13  On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Rev 21:15  And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.
Rev 21:16  And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.
Rev 21:17  And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
Rev 21:18  And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.
Rev 21:19  And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
Rev 21:20  The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Rev 21:21  And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
Rev 21:22  And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Rev 21:23  And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24  And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25  And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
Rev 21:26  And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
Rev 21:27  And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. ]


Please I beg you not to waster your soul , because it is appointment unto man to die once after that judgment. There are a lot of examples and testimonies out there that would convince you about the deceit of islam, mohammed, allah and about the TRUTH OF CHRIST AND THE BIBLE . People like Hitler,mohammed and alexander the great don't have the chance of a salvation that you now have through Christ , please take it,  You can get countless fufillment of bible prophesy if you earnestly seek them , so please don't waste your life and soul, Good as given you a free gift of salvation:

[Rom 6:23  For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. ]

[Rom 5:15  But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. ]

[Act 2:38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ]

[Rom 5:16  And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. ]

[Rom 5:17  For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) ]

[2Co 9:15  Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift. ]


It find it rather ironic the someone like some muslims have the academic intelligence to understand quantum physics, relativity but yet they can't seem to understand the Truth about their false religion even in the presence of mounting evidence that proves that ,  they are headed for eternal condemnation if they do not repent, and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

@babs787,


And what 'truth' have you been referring to?


This is really hilarious! So who 'tampered' with the "original message"?

Eve the claim that the original message has been 'tampered with' should raise a few questions here - which I have highlighted earlier and yet not found a coherent response from any Muslim. The questions that we should be asking here include:

   ~ WHO revealed those "original messages"?

   ~ WHO 'tampered with' them?

   ~ WHY did "Allah" deliberately allow the original messages
   to be tampered with?

   ~ WHAT did the "original message" teach before they were
   tampered with?

   ~ WHY do we not find the "original message" in the Qur'an
   and instead find very empty fabrications of the Biblical narratives
   in both the Qur'an and Hadiths?

   ~ HOW is it that inspite of the claims Muslims make for Muhammad,
   he could not live a consistently righteous and holy life free from fear
   of being oppressed by his personal devil?

It is easy to sit on the fence and accuse the Bible of being tampered with and yet be proven beyond a doubt that most Muslims will stop at nothing to openly LIE! Without beating around the bush, WHERE is the answer to the "LOST" Torah and Injil? Where did 'Allah' or Muhammad ever claim that the Torah and Injil were "LOST"? Why do you people shamelessly LIE and LIE and LIE until you lose all sensibility to simple truth?


Rubbish! The Qur'an did not come to "correct" anything about the Bible - otherwise that again is a clear contradiction in the Qur'an!

The claim of the Qur'an was rather to "CONFIRM" what the Bible says - as it appeared in Muhammad's day! There is not a single reference where the Qur'an purports to come and "correct" what Jews and Christians possessed at the tme of Muhammad, and in every instance recorded in the Qur'an, it was always a reference to "CONFIRMING" the Jewish and Christian Scriptures!!!

It was later on that Muslims once again started LYING for 'Allah' and Muhammad by claiming the Qur'an came to "correct" Jews and Christians (NOT the BIBLE) in their beliefs inspite of the fact that the Bible in Muhammad's day is the same Bible with the same message as today which he claimed to have come to "confirm"!!

There is not a single time when Muhammad ever claimed to have come to correct the 'previous' Scriptures! Most translators (especially your favourite - Hilali-Khan) even recognize the 'previous' Scriptures to be the Bible containing the Torah and Injil that the Jews and Christians possessed at the time of Muhammad! Where in history did those verses change AFTER Muhammad died?

For once, you Muslims should stop LYING against your Qur'an and putting words into the mouth of 'Allah' to make him say what he never said!

Muhammad clearly was the one speaking in the Qur'an and was pretending that "Allah" alone was the one speaking! Yet for all that, we have seen how many instances he clearly was lying against HISTORICAL FACTS!! How would "Allah" be confusing a historical fact with Muhammad's LIES and pass it off to him as "divine revelation" from God? Don't you peple have any shame? Is it any wonder why I keep asserting that the more I read your lies, the further you drive me from Islam? SHAME!!

@olabowale,

I have patiently borne with your rambling - and as always, you seem ever so incoherent! What exactly did you respond to other than you story-telling that circles round and navigates away from the gist of my rejoinder earlier?

Lol. . . @SysUser,

The sad thing is that it is a recurrent idea that the Qur'an only prduces half-baked errand boys who pretend that they have scholarship that is unmatched! Yet, it was Muhammad who accused the Arabs of being "the worst in unbelief and hypocrisy, and most fitted to be in ignorance" - (Qur'an 9 v 97). Today, so many Muslims are competing with the Arabs for the same ignorance and hypocrisy; and so far, the ones with whom we are discussing on the Forum seem to be out-doing the Arabs on the ignorance level!

One of such ignorance and hypocrisy index will become obvious to all if we ask them to simply seek to understand the basic meaning of "confirm". Aside from the fact that babs787 was trying to hornswoggle readers publicly with his deceit of claiming that the Qur'an came to "correct" the Biblical scriptures, we know there is no such claim made by their 'allah' in the Qur'an!

I won't push issues; but it would be interesting for him to come back and deny that the Qur'an actually says that it came to CONFIRM the Biblical scriptures. Whether he had enough background education to understand the simple meaning of the word "confirm" is another matter altogether! All the same, when he actually comes back denying the fact, then I will gladly set him straight once again - no matter how long I would be away from the Forum!

Best wishes.

@babs787,


Dunce. Please read the following PROPPHETIC statements and let us see how you enunciate them:

    Psalm 22:16
   For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me:
   they pierced my hands and my feet.

   Zechariah 12:10
   And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants
   of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:
                and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,
   and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,
   and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness
   for his firstborn.



The same way that Muslims often hide their eyes in the Arabian sand after showing them a FACT!


Yep. . . we have seen how the allah of the Qur'an justifies Muhammad's sexual escapades and then changes his mind about certain verses so he could "abrogate" them! At least the verses you refer to in the Bible were not said to be "abrogated" as much as the allah of the Qur'an allows Muhammad to make things up and decieve people with the Muslim duplicity of a Qur'an that nobody is allowed to touch - or they would kill them like they lynched the poor teacher in Gombe!