NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009

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Author Topic: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009  (Read 3518 views)
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #96 on: December 14, 2007, 02:07 AM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on December 13, 2007, 06:49 PM
The pay issue was just one of the main reasons why I opted for a Masters. PhDs do not necessarily get paid more than Masters degree holders however, they make the bulk of their money from research grants they are able to hussle for. A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry. Most Master's Holders tend to work in industries while PhDs have majority of opportunities available to them in the education sector with universities and research institutions.

With these I doubt whether you really have an idea what PhD is all about.

So in your whole understanding a PhD holder can not work in an industry? Huh In your whole understanding a PhD holder did not already have a Masters degree before going for doctorate degree?  Huh

In your whole understanding, when a PhD holder and a masters degree holder for example in the same field e.g. pharmaceutical sciences, are working in the same pharmaceutical industry, the masters degree holder gets paid twice the pay of the PhD holder? Huh

And with the way u use opted, it sounds as if Masters and PhD are the same level that you can just choose one in place of the other. Get it right if you don’t have Masters, u can not even opt for PhD even if u want to. You have to get masters degree before you can get PhD. It sounds like saying one can opt for a secondary school certificate instead of a  university first degree as if they are equal.  Undecided

Masters is just a second degree while PhD is a third degree (or even fourth degree if an M.phil is included).   Cool

People like you think that PhD is solemnly for education sector. I see one of the issues why Nigeria is lacking behind. We do not aspire into having academically excellent industries for manufacture of quality products. You think that most top international industry and company owners stopped in Masters Degree and employ just masters degree holders? That is why for example we do not have excellent pharmaceutical production industries, not to talk of having series of patents. That is why we so much lack behind in innovation because we are satisfied with Masters. That is why we do not even have a single auto production/manufacture industry (am not talking about assembly). That is why refining our God given oil is a problem- we have to rely on external experts.  Cry

Check out with multinational industries/companies and tell me whether it is not PhD holders that they recruit more. Besides how many multinational industries does Nigeria have? Well the answer is clear – most people are satisfied with just Masters Degree. You want to be looking around for who will employ you instead of thinking about the possibility of you owning a reputable industry and employing others.

You want to say that in the same hospital a medical doctor with a PhD gets less pay compared to a medical doctor with a Masters? Or in the same engineering firm an engineer with a Masters degree gets more pay than a PhD holder. Or in a law (advocate) firm, a Masters holder gets more than a lawyer with PhD?  Huh

You clearly have no ideal what PhD entails. It is not just about research okay. You have to do research to publish your papers and graduate but once u finish, it is not just about research. You can work in wherever u wish to depending on your field of study. Do u reason that if a Masters Degree holder can get more pay than a PhD, then a PhD holder can as well decide to work with his or her Masters degree because he\she already has it (he/she will just keep the PhD degree). But that is not the case anyway because mostly a PhD holder gets at least twice the salary of a Masters Degree holder in the same field and same work area.

To broaden your knowledge, find out how much PhD holders and Masters degree holders in the same Multinational industries are paid. Since your options are based on pay, if you find out the difference between the salary of a PhD holder and a masters degree holder in a given multinational industry, u will crave for PhD  Cheesy and do all you can to study up to PhD level.
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #97 on: December 14, 2007, 02:08 AM »

@ topic

The more educated we are, the better, lecturer or no lecturer! So about lecturers getting PhD, it is a welcome idea. The only thing is that for some who went into lecturing because of unemployment, as soon as they get their PhD they will most likely get out of the  lecturer job (except for those mostly from faculty of education), because they now have a lot more of opputunities.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #98 on: December 14, 2007, 02:48 AM »

Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 02:07 AM
With these I doubt whether you really have an idea what PhD is all about.

So in your whole understanding a PhD holder can not work in an industry? Huh In your whole understanding a PhD holder did not already have a Masters degree before going for doctorate degree?  Huh

In your whole understanding, when a PhD holder and a masters degree holder for example in the same field e.g. pharmaceutical sciences, are working in the same pharmaceutical industry, the masters degree holder gets paid twice the pay of the PhD holder? Huh

And with the way u use opted, it sounds as if Masters and PhD are the same level that you can just choose one in place of the other. Get it right if you don’t have Masters, u can not even opt for PhD even if u want to. You have to get masters degree before you can get PhD. It sounds like saying one can opt for a secondary school certificate instead of a university first degree as if they are equal.  Undecided

Masters is just a second degree while PhD is a third degree (or even fourth degree if an M.phil is included).   Cool

People like you think that PhD is solemnly for education sector. I see one of the issues why Nigeria is lacking behind. We do not aspire into having academically excellent industries for manufacture of quality products. You think that most top international industry and company owners stopped in Masters Degree and employ just masters degree holders? That is why for example we do not have excellent pharmaceutical production industries, not to talk of having series of patents. That is why we so much lack behind in innovation because we are satisfied with Masters. That is why we do not even have a single auto production/manufacture industry (am not talking about assembly). That is why refining our God given oil is a problem- we have to rely on external experts.  Cry

Check out with multinational industries/companies and tell me whether it is not PhD holders that they recruit more. Besides how many multinational industries does Nigeria have? Well the answer is clear – most people are satisfied with just Masters Degree. You want to be looking around for who will employ you instead of thinking about the possibility of you owning a reputable industry and employing others.

You want to say that in the same hospital a medical doctor with a PhD gets less pay compared to a medical doctor with a Masters? Or in the same engineering firm an engineer with a Masters degree gets more pay than a PhD holder. Or in a law (advocate) firm, a Masters holder gets more than a lawyer with PhD?  Huh

You clearly have no ideal what PhD entails. It is not just about research okay. You have to do research to publish your papers and graduate but once u finish, it is not just about research. You can work in wherever u wish to depending on your field of study. Do u reason that if a Masters Degree holder can get more pay than a PhD, then a PhD holder can as well decide to work with his or her Masters degree because he\she already has it (he/she will just keep the PhD degree). But that is not the case anyway because mostly a PhD holder gets at least twice the salary of a Masters Degree holder in the same field and same work area.

To broaden your knowledge, find out how much PhD holders and Masters degree holders in the same Multinational industries are paid. Since your options are based on pay, if you find out the difference between the salary of a PhD holder and a masters degree holder in a given multinational industry, u will crave for PhD  Cheesy and do all you can to study up to PhD level.



I was going to reply your posts but I guessed you did not bother reading my post at all but where too in to what you wanted to type so I decided to find you sample articles to help you better understand what I typed on the other page there.

http://www.qsnetwork.com/news/article/making_graduate_degrees_pay_salary_benefits_for_masters_and_phd_candidates/

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradstud/gsassurvey.pdf

http://pubs.acs.org/cen/acsnews/85/8549salaries.html



I don't have a PhD and I make considerable more than the PhDs in those lists make. So like I said earlier, obtaining a PhD  is not for all but for those who are willing to commit to such.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #99 on: December 14, 2007, 02:53 AM »

Quote

The pay issue was just one of the main reasons why I opted for a Masters.

PhDs do not necessarily get paid more than Masters degree holders however, they make the bulk of their money from research grants they are able to hussle for.

A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry.

Most Master's Holders tend to work in industries while PhDs have majority of opportunities available to them in the education sector with universities and research institutions. 
 



Now notice how that whole applies to my case and options that were available to me at the time I made my decision to opt for a Master's and not a PhD?Huh?
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #100 on: December 14, 2007, 03:27 AM »

@Kobojunkie
Even though your links is not from multinational industries, they still show that PhDs are paid much higher than Masters.

A company that is still struggling will of course employ more Masters degree holders because they may not be able to pay a lot of PhDs. But a well established Multinational industry/company needs and employs PhDs as every living thing needs water. And in these kind of industries the pay is in no way comparable to a Masters.

You still sound like ‘because of the stress involved in getting a bachelor (or any first degree)’ one should stop with a secondary school certificate. Well it requires more than just a wish for people who finally made it into inventions or innovations. So because it could be stressful (depending on how u see it anyway), we should not strive for the best? We will wait for other nationalities to acquire the best and then we start seeking for their help in technology/sciences in our country. Even research institutes you mentioned, I guess you have no idea what these institutes generate financially. I guess you have no idea what a single patent can give. How dare you compare a Masters degree and a PhD degree? Huh

I still maintain you look up this.
Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 02:07 AM

To broaden your knowledge, find out how much PhD holders and Masters degree holders in the same Multinational industries are paid. Since your options are based on pay, if you find out the difference between the salary of a PhD holder and a masters degree holder in a given multinational industry, u will crave for PhD  Cheesy and do all you can to study up to PhD level.

Just get an idea of how much a PhD is paid in a multinational industry.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #101 on: December 14, 2007, 03:32 AM »

Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 03:27 AM
@Kobojunkie
Even though your links is not from multinational industries, they still show that PhDs are paid much higher than Masters.

A company that is still struggling will of course employ more Masters degree holders because they may not be able to pay a lot of PhDs. But a well established Multinational industry/company needs and employs PhDs as every living thing needs water. And in these kind of industries the pay is in no way comparable to a Masters.

You still sound like ‘because of the stress involved in getting a bachelor (or any first degree)’ one should stop with a secondary school certificate. Well it requires more than just a wish for people who finally made it into inventions or innovations. So because it could be stressful (depending on how u see it anyway), we should not strive for the best? We will wait for other nationalities to acquire the best and then we start seeking for their help in technology/sciences in our country. Even research institutes you mentioned, I guess you have no idea what these institutes generate financially. I guess you have no idea what a single patent can give. How dare you compare a Masters degree and a PhD degree?

I still maintain you look up this.Just get an idea of how much a PhD is paid in a multinational industry.



Note: The original post had nothing to do with multinationals but was about me and the choice I had available to me, are you going to tell me that that you missed that completely??? I happen to be in the USA. Are you saying that USA companies most of which happen to be multinational companies do not count? I was in no way speaking for all PhD holders, so again please, it is sort of rude when people read what is typed and still run off on a tangent.

Take a look at the links I posted for you to see in my post and also read the last line or so I posted about self to understand where I am and how what I typed in response to the person who asked me the question applies. I make more than the what is listed as average page for PhDs on that list. I have friends who are PhD holders who are still trying to get to a higher pay grade.


The salaries listed on those links apply even to fortune 500 companies, I do not know where you get that fortune 500's high master's degree holders cause they are struggling.  Huh Infact, if that is what you want to believe, that is completely ok by me. I have no idea why you are now trying to analyze my person when the topic has absolutely nothing to do with me or my personal preference or choice.
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #102 on: December 14, 2007, 03:52 AM »

Well when you are not sure or clear about something, you should not make comments like these.

Quote
The pay issue was just one of the main reasons why I opted for a Masters. PhDs do not necessarily get paid more than Masters degree holders however, they make the bulk of their money from research grants they are able to hussle for.

[color=#990000]A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry. Most Master's Holders tend to work in industries while PhDs have majority of opportunities available to them in the education sector with universities and research institutions.[/color]
Quote

Look out the highlighted comments and see that you have no clue what you are talking about. You can make your choice on the level of education you want to stop with, but don't come and feed us with these kind of statements.

Yes the topic is about PhD but you switched to telling us "that A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry." and you want us to clap for you and digest such statements just because u want to use it to justify your "opted option"

Meanwhile PhDs in multinational is still about PhD (not masters) okay Cool
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #103 on: December 14, 2007, 03:55 AM »

Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 03:52 AM
Well when you are not sure or clear about something, you should not make comments like these.

Look out the highlighted comments and see that you have no clue what you are talking about. You can make your choice on the level of education you want to stop with, but don't come and feed us with these kind of ststements.

Yes the topic is about PhD but you switched to telling us "that A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry." and you want us to clap for you and digest such statements just because u want to use it to justify your "opted option"

Meanwhile PhDs in multinational is still about PhD (not masters) okay Cool



I happen to be very sure of what I meant and posted.  What do you mean by PhDs in multinationals being about PhDs and not masters?? Who does that even mean?? And why do you keep going on about multinationals??

http://www.tempeschools.org/district/documents/salary_sched_0708.pdf
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #104 on: December 14, 2007, 04:04 AM »

I see clearly that you do not grasp what PhD is all about. That makes it difficult to have a discussion with you about PhD. First go and find out what PhD is all about and the unlimited opportunities available for a PhD holder then come we will sit and talk. Wink

Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 03:52 AM
Meanwhile PhDs in multinational is still about PhD (not masters) okay Cool
The topic is about PhD not Masters
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #105 on: December 14, 2007, 04:06 AM »

Quote
There is a difference between mini cab drivers and black cab drivers.Mini cab drivers don't make money as they have to pay all sorts and a lot are usually illegal anyway.But black cab drivers who actually own the cabs earn more than the average medical doctor in the UK.The doctors who earn in excess of £100k/PA are General practitioners.As for Consultants the pay is between £72k-161K/Per Annumn.Registrars earn between £40k-72K/Per Annumn and House Officers can earn as little as £25k/Per annumn depending on the hospital.These are rough estimates.See link below

http://www.nhscareers.nhs.uk/details/Default.aspx?Id=553

But the consultants/GPs make up less than 25% of the total doctor population in the UK.The rest are Registrars and Staff Grades who earn around £40-55K/Per Annumn.Mind you it takes 6 years to become a doctor and another 6-10 years to become a Consultant depending on your area of specialisation.

Now come to the black cabs.The rate now is £3.00 for the first mile and subsequent miles are charged at £1.30.That is if you are moving freely.So a distance from Ojuelegba to LUTh which is about 2 miles will cost you about £4.30 if there is no go slow.And it is less than 5 minutes.And these drivers are classified as self employed,meaning it is what they declare that they are taxed on.So if you earn £300/day and you say you made only £70 in that day you will be taxed at the lower rate between 10%-22%.Now a doctor earning £55,000/Annumn gets taxed 40%.So tell me who earns more?
We are too pre-occupied with titles(my son is a doctor,I am an Engineer,I am an Accountant) in Nigeria.In the west,no one cares what you do for a living,as long as it is legal.With the dearth of plumbers,many city workers are retraining and becoming plumbers to make a killing.Call a plumber at night and you will understand why professionals in the UK are retraining to become a plumber.Escorts(Ashewos) -that is a moral issue.I can't do that.And it is totally different from cabbing my friend.Until we drop the mentality of paper qualification over technical know how we will never move forward as nation.I heard on this forum that tony elumelu made a third class.Yet he runs one of Nigeria's biggest banks.In the Western world,Universities will be jumping over themselves to get him to lecture their MBA students.And ofcourse he will be paid handsomely,third class or no third class.

Don't get me wrong,I enjoy being a doctor,but if you are looking for the money then believe me jobs like cabbing and plumbing will give you more money when you figure in the time and hard work it takes to become a Consultant in Medicine.



Quote
Have you considered moving to a new country?? Or better still Nigeria?? By the way, How much do Nigerian doctors make??? I doubt PhDs are in the high earning brackets in any country. At least not here. I remember I opted for a masters rather than a PhD cause of the pay. But maybe all you need to do is look around. Over here, doctors make over 300k a year and this is just for starting doctors in some fields.


Quote
The pay issue was just one of the main reasons why I opted for a Masters.

PhDs do not necessarily get paid more than Masters degree holders however, they make the bulk of their money from research grants they are able to hussle for.

A new PhD holder can get paid 40K a year while a Master's Holder can get about 2 times of that depending on the field of study and what industry.

Most Master's Holders tend to work in industries while PhDs have majority of opportunities available to them in the education sector with universities and research institutions. 


http://www.qsnetwork.com/news/article/making_graduate_degrees_pay_salary_benefits_for_masters_and_phd_candidates/


http://www.graduateschooladmission.com/phd.php

If you still do not understand, I am sorry, I can not help you. Good luck !
Revive (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #106 on: December 14, 2007, 04:11 AM »

Quote from: Revive on December 14, 2007, 04:04 AM
First go and find out what PhD is all about and the unlimited opportunities available for a PhD holder then come we will sit and talk. Wink
blueband (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #107 on: December 14, 2007, 11:35 AM »

Quote from: Akolawole on December 14, 2007, 01:29 AM
Abi o.

I tire for these guys, once they cross over to the west, every single thing about Nigeria is rubbish.

@Debosky

Nice Analysis bro Wink

@ BlueBand

Yo've not answered my question.

How much do these cab drivers pay to their contollers?

@Topic

We want PHD holders as lecturers. It is that simple!




Go and read my post again.I said black cab drivers who own their cabs.And not mini cab drivers who have to rent their cabs from either controllers or outsiders.On the average to hire the radio from a controller is £100/week.And if you own your own can you can actually set up your own control room in your house staffed by your wife or child.Look,self employed guys make a lot of money because of the tax break they get.What you declare is what you get taxed on.You don't want to know what I pay as tax every month.
Akolawole (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #108 on: December 14, 2007, 12:10 PM »

Quote from: blueband on December 14, 2007, 11:35 AM
On the average to hire the radio from a controller is £100/week.And if you own your own can you can actually set up your own control room in your house staffed by your wife or child.Look,self employed guys make a lot of money because of the tax break they get.What you declare is what you get taxed on.

On rare occassion, one can go for PHD without having a masters.

i thought its not possible until i met a Ghanian lady in UK doing her PHD without Msc though she got first class in her first degree in Ghana.
iykrion (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #109 on: December 14, 2007, 01:42 PM »

@Kobojunkie,
You seem to infer that the more one studies for higher degrees, the less oppurtunities available. Or better put, the less salary he/she gets.

From all you have written, it's clear that you don't even merit a First Degree Sad. Infact, in your own world, a  Diploma holder earns more than a Professor in the same field.

Why did you bother to go for the Master's degree -which I doubt- you have? I suggest you follow Revive's advice, so that, at least you may be revived.

Back to the topic, If Nigeria government doesn't encourage the expected PhD holders by way of good salary structures, they will certainly leave for 'greener' pastures, just like their predecessors.

This is no longer the age of one trying to die for his country.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #110 on: December 14, 2007, 01:44 PM »

Quote from: Akolawole on December 14, 2007, 12:10 PM
On rare occassion, one can go for PHD without having a masters.

i thought its not possible until i met a Ghanian lady in UK doing her PHD without Msc though she got first class in her first degree in Ghana.

Actually it is not rare. I do know that University of Alabama and University of Delaware as well as University of Colorado, Cincinatti do not REQUIRE you have a Masters FIRST before you sign up for the PhD program.  You either sign up for the one or the other. The PhD is an average of 6 years, so the masters is sort of included.
Akolawole (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #111 on: December 14, 2007, 02:49 PM »

@Kobojunkie

Why must i use US education Cry as case study?

UK is my yardstick in my comment.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #112 on: December 14, 2007, 02:53 PM »

Quote from: Akolawole on December 14, 2007, 02:49 PM
@Kobojunkie

Why must i use US education Cry as case study?

UK is my yardstick in my comment.

Well, I apologise, I assumed the topic has gone international. I can not say much about the system in the UK.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #113 on: December 14, 2007, 02:58 PM »

Quote from: blueband on December 14, 2007, 11:35 AM
Go and read my post again.I said black cab drivers who own their cabs.And not mini cab drivers who have to rent their cabs from either controllers or outsiders.On the average to hire the radio from a controller is £100/week.And if you own your own can you can actually set up your own control room in your house staffed by your wife or child.Look,self employed guys make a lot of money because of the tax break they get.What you declare is what you get taxed on.You don't want to know what I pay as tax every month.

You are not wrong @BlueBand. There are cases where people with PhDs have been seen driving cabs and even homeless people with PhDs. I mean it happens even here in America but I would not advice you to take that route. True that being self employed, one can make way more than persons with degrees can. A friend of mine just completed her Medical degree out there in the UK and she plans to move out here to work.
blueband (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #114 on: December 14, 2007, 03:16 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on December 14, 2007, 02:58 PM
You are not wrong @BlueBand. There are cases where people with PhDs have been seen driving cabs and even homeless people with PhDs. I mean it happens even here in America but I would not advice you to take that route. True that being self employed, one can make way more than persons with degrees can. A friend of mine just completed her Medical degree out there in the UK and she plans to move out here to work.

Abeg o.I was only saying with all my hard work,I saw a cabby doing as good as medical doctor.I envy the guy sha,He does not have the kind of responsibility I have.If he shags another cabby's wife nothing will happen to him.If I shag my colleagues wife(which I love doing  Grin) and I am caught,I ll lose my medical license.Your advise is taken,I won't become a cabby.Happy now? Grin Grin Grin Grin
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #115 on: December 14, 2007, 03:20 PM »

Well,  goodluck with your career!!!! Grin
Geniall
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #116 on: December 14, 2007, 04:39 PM »

Quote from: Kobojunkie on December 14, 2007, 02:58 PM
You are not wrong @BlueBand. There are cases where people with PhDs have been seen driving cabs and even homeless people with PhDs. I mean it happens even here in America but I would not advice you to take that route. True that being self employed, one can make way more than persons with degrees can. A friend of mine just completed her Medical degree out there in the UK and she plans to move out here to work.

Your submission is full of good intentions, but often incoherent and your logic is often flawed and inconsistent. For example:
Quote
There are cases where people with PhDs have been seen driving cabs
There are also cases where people with MScs, MBAs and whatever else, as well as people with no academic degrees whatsoever, have been seen driving cabs. So what exactly is your point?

Also:
Quote
, and even homeless people with PhDs
See above.

If your point is supposed to be complementary to bluebands' argument, then it falls woefully short. Blueband has diligently sought to support his assertion that PhD holders do in some cases drive cabs due to perceived economic benefit (as opposed to intellectual satisfaction), although I cannot say how successfully he has done this. 

You, on the other hand, are trying to prove what with your assertions?

@ Akolawole:
Quote from: Akolawole on December 14, 2007, 12:10 PM
On rare occassion, one can go for PHD without having a masters.

i thought its not possible until i met a Ghanian lady in UK doing her PHD without Msc though she got first class in her first degree in Ghana.

Kobojunkie has already made this point, although with regard to a different educational system. It is not rare at all. In fact it is increasingly more common at the top UK universities (OXbridge, IC, UCL, etc) that people go right to their PhDs from their undergraduate degree; and conversely less common to see people who have first done an MSc.
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #117 on: December 14, 2007, 04:51 PM »

Quote from: Geniall on December 14, 2007, 04:39 PM
Your submission is full of good intentions, but often incoherent and your logic is often flawed and inconsistent. For example:There are also cases where people with MScs, MBAs and whatever else, as well as people with no academic degrees whatsoever, have been seen driving cabs. So what exactly is your point?

Also:See above.

If your point is supposed to be complementary to bluebands' argument, then it falls woefully short. Blueband has diligently sought to support his assertion that PhD holders do in some cases drive cabs due to perceived economic benefit (as opposed to intellectual satisfaction), although I cannot say how successfully he has done this. 

You, on the other hand, are trying to prove what with your assertions?

@ Akolawole:
Kobojunkie has already made this point, although with regard to a different educational system. It is not rare at all. In fact it is increasingly more common at the top UK universities (OXbridge, IC, UCL, etc) that people go right to their PhDs from their undergraduate degree; and conversely less common to see people who have first done an MSc.


Oh Boy!!!! My Discussion with BlueBand has ,from the beginning, not been about the merits or demerits of having a PhD or a medical degree. The conversation has been mainly about his stating that it is not really about what you study, which in this world is more and more the case when it comes to making money but how you use what you have.
 
If you bothered to read my posts on the main topic from the beginning, I have in no wise said I do not support a move made by the NUC. I am sure I made my stance clear on that already.

Blueband commented on how cab drivers make more than doctors in some cases and I agree with him. I am not of the belief that a PhD or a Masters degree GUARANTEES anyone big money or a position in anywise is my point and I did mention that I know of persons with master's degrees who make more than PhD holders, especially when compared to the investment, both financial and intellectual, which one has put in to get one's PhD. We live in a world today where even PhDs are supervised by High school dropouts.

I told him of my case and decisions I had to make based on what was available to me at the time and to this day in the field I am involved in.

 And as blueband already made clear, one can make more money being self employed in most any field. Please STOP making it what it is not.


Quote
A few warnings:
Students sometimes enroll in a Ph.D. program for the wrong reasons. After a while, such students find that the requirements overwhelm them. Before starting one should realize that a Ph.D. is not:

Prestigious in itself
Almost everyone who has obtained a Ph.D. is proud of their efforts and the result. However, you should understand that once you graduate, you will work among a group of scientists who each hold a Ph.D. degree. (One faculty member used to chide arrogant graduate students by saying, ``I don't see why you think it's such a great accomplishment -- all my friends have a Ph.D!'').

A guarantee of respect for all your opinions
Many students believe that once they earn a Ph.D. people will automatically respect all their opinions. You will learn, however, that few people assume a Ph.D. in one subject automatically makes you an authority on others. It is especially true in the science communicaty; respect must be earned.

A goal in itself
A Ph.D. degree prepares you for research. If all you want is a diploma to hang on the wall, there are much easier ways to obtain one. After you graduate, you will have occasion to compare your record of accomplishment to those of other scientists. You will realize that what counts is the research work accumulated after a scientist finishes their formal education.

A job guarantee
When an economy slows, everyone can suffer. In fact, some companies reduce research before they reduce production, making Ph.D.s especially vulnerable. Furthermore, once a person earns a Ph.D., many companies will not hire that person for a non-research position. As in most professions, continued employment depends on continued performance.

A practical way to impress your family or friends
Your mother may be proud and excited when you enroll in a Ph.D. program. After all, she imagines that she will soon be able to brag about her child, ``the doctor.'' However, a desire to impress others is insufficient motivation for the effort required.

Something you can ``try'' to find out how smart you are
Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way. Unless you make a total commitment, you will fail. You will need to work long hours, face many disappointments, stretch your mental capabilities, and learn to find order among apparently chaotic facts. Unless you have adopted the long-range goal of becoming a researcher, the day-to-day demands will wear you down. Standards will seem unnecessary high; rigor will seem unwarranted. If you only consider it a test, you will eventually walk away.

The only research topic you will ever pursue
Many students make the mistake of viewing their Ph.D. topic as a research area for life. They assume each researcher only works in one area, always pursues the same topic within that area, and always uses the same tools and approaches. Experienced researchers know that new questions arise constantly, and that old questions can become less interesting as time passes or new facts are discovered. The best people change topics and areas. It keeps them fresh and stimulates thinking. Plan to move on; prepare for change.


Easier than entering the work force

You will find that the path to successful completion of a Ph.D. becomes much steeper after you begin. The faculty impose constraints on your study, and do not permit unproductive students to remain in the program.

Better than the alternatives
For many students, a Ph.D. can be a curse. They must choose between being at the top among people who hold a Masters degree or being a mediocre researcher. The faculty sometimes advise students that they must choose between being ``captain of the B team'' or a ``benchwarmer'' on the A team. Everyone must decide what they want, and which profession will stimulate them most. But students should be realistic about their capabilities. If you really cannot determine where you stand, ask faculty members.

A way to make more money
While we haven't heard any statistics for the past couple of years, graduate students used to estimate the ``payoff'' using the starting salaries of Ph.D. and M.S. positions, the average time required to obtain a Ph.D., the value of stock options, and current return on investments. For a period of at least five years that we know, the payoff was clearly negative. Suffice it to say that one must choose research because one loves it; a Ph.D. is not the optimum road to wealth.

http://www.cs.purdue.edu/homes/dec/essay.phd.html  PERDUE UNIVERSITY



PLEASE READ THAT IF YOU STILL HAVE DOUBTS AND NOW BACK TO MAIN TOPIC PLEASE!!!!
dot2002 (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #118 on: December 14, 2007, 04:53 PM »

How would a master holder earn more than a more technically proficient PhD holder? it beats me, where is the common logical sense in your discussion junkie?
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #119 on: December 14, 2007, 04:55 PM »

Quote from: dot2002 on December 14, 2007, 04:53 PM
How would a master holder earn more than a more technically proficient PhD holder? it beats me, where is the common sense in this.

Easy way to find out is you go to companies where these problems exist and ask around. I do not make the rules at all. Infact, there have been cases where PhD's go out to get jobs and the job get's given to a master's holder cause, as was the case up until some time ago, they are too qualified for the position or the company can not afford them or better still, since the master's holder spent the time the PhD holder spent in research, gaining industry experience, they are more qualified for positions with the outside exposure. There are so many reasons out there but you would need to research it to find out how many are used and what companies have.
laudate
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #120 on: December 14, 2007, 05:45 PM »

The person who chose 2009 as a deadline for getting a Ph.d is so out of tune with what is going on in Nigerian universities. After a Masters' degree, a candidate would have to spend an additional two years studying for an MPhil. qualification, that would qualify him or her to go in for a Ph.d. Except you had a First Class bachelor's degree, you are unlikely to be able to skip this route.

If you pass the MPhil. after the two year programme, then you become eligible to go into the Ph.d programme, which could last from 3 to 5 years depending on the course of study and the university. So it could take from 5 to 7 years to get a Ph.d in a Nigerian university, if there are no interruptions in the school calendar. So why was 2009, chosen as a deadline? It doesn't make sense! Huh
laudate
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #121 on: December 14, 2007, 05:55 PM »

With a lot of bad-belle Professors in the Nigerian university system, many Ph.d candidates, have tales of woe to tell, about what it took them to get through their programme. The average Ph.d candidate has 3 supervisors he must report to, who would take turns to assess his work at every stage. One of my lecturers told me how it took him 14 years (gulp!) to get his Ph.d from the University of Lagos. It took another one about 10 years to complete his studies, simply because two of his lecturers were at loggerheads for more than 6 years!

And with the school calendar which is often disrupted by strikes and all, only God knows when the current set of doctoral candidates would graduate! Angry

Unstable school policies also contribute to the dearth of Ph.d holders.  Sad There was a time, when a southern university admitted students with a Masters' degree in International Law and Diplomacy, (MILD) for a Ph.d programme in the same course. They were told that they didn't need to have a first degree in Law, to enrol for the course. So several folks started the programme. In their third year on the Ph.d course, the school authorities woke up from their slumber and decided to make it compulsory for doctoral candidates on this programme, to have a first degree in Law. Needless to say, a lot of the students without an LLB, dropped out of the course, after spending over three years on the Ph.d programme.

Tell me, from where would they start all over again??  Angry
almondjoy (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #122 on: December 14, 2007, 06:07 PM »

Quote from: laudate on December 14, 2007, 05:45 PM
The person who chose 2009 as a deadline for getting a Ph.d is so out of tune with what is going on in Nigerian universities. After a Masters' degree, a candidate would have to spend an additional two years studying for an MPhil. qualification, that would qualify him or her to go in for a masters' Except you had a First Class bachelor's degree, you are unlikely to be able to skip this route.

If you pass the MPhil. after the two year programme, then you become eligible to go into the Ph.d programme, which could last from 3 to 5 years depending on the course of study and the university. So it could take from 5 to 7 years to get a Ph.d in a Nigerian university, if there are no interruptions in the school calendar. So why was 2009, chosen as a deadline? It doesn't make sense! Huh

Don't forget it is Nigeria we are dealing with. Thinking before acting does not come naturally to us.  Actually some of ma relatives doing some PHD stuff over in the UK heard about this rumour, so it must have been in circulation for a while now.  It just means that if they do not make it by 2009--they will have to eat crow!  Most of them are spare parts dealers anyway.  So life will definitely go on!


Quote from: laudate on December 14, 2007, 05:55 PM
With a lot of bad-belle Professors in the Nigerian university system, many Ph.d candidates, have tales of woe to tell, about what it took them to get through their programme. The average Ph.d candidate has 3 supervisors he must report to, who would take turns to assess his work at every stage. One of my lecturers told me how it took him 14 years (gulp!) to get his Ph.d from the University of Lagos. It took another one about 10 years to complete his studies, simply because two of his lecturers were at loggerheads for more than 6 years!

And with the school calendar which is often disrupted by strikes and all, only God knows when the current set of doctoral candidates would graduate! Angry

Unstable school policies also contribute to the dearth of Ph.d holders. :(There was a time, when a southern university admitted students with a Masters' degree in International Law and Diplomacy, (MILD) for a Ph.d programme in the same course. They were told that they didn't need to have a first degree in Law, to enrol for the course. So several folks started the programme. In their third year on the Ph.d course, the school authorities woke up from their slumber and decided to make it compulsory for doctoral candidates on this programme, to have a first degree in Law. Needless to say, a lot of the students without an LLB, dropped out of the course, after spending over three years on the Ph.d programme.

Tell me, from where would they start all over again?? Angry

They are going to start over from Alaba market selling their spare parts in peace--let the students continue to study with "handouts" and "Legsout"-to graduate! Cheesy  It is so amazing when you think of how some developed countries try to make things easier for their citizens.  Nigeria works in the reverse mode.  Now in the US, due to the current state of real estate cruches, the feds are thinking how to go about a fixed interest rate for a certain number of years for qualified home owners, to prevent them from losing their homes--to the state of a pre-recessional economy.  Nigeria and its "Misgovernment" will only think of ways to further drive its citizens into hades!

Welcome back Laudate.  That is "our" Nigeria for you! Kiss

Happy Holidays!
dot2002 (f)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #123 on: December 14, 2007, 06:33 PM »

Merry Christmas every well meaning Nigerian 
Kobojunkie
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #124 on: December 14, 2007, 06:40 PM »

Quote from: laudate on December 14, 2007, 05:55 PM
With a lot of bad-belle Professors in the Nigerian university system, many Ph.d candidates, have tales of woe to tell, about what it took them to get through their programme. The average Ph.d candidate has 3 supervisors he must report to, who would take turns to assess his work at every stage. One of my lecturers told me how it took him 14 years (gulp!) to get his Ph.d from the University of Lagos. It took another one about 10 years to complete his studies, simply because two of his lecturers were at loggerheads for more than 6 years!

And with the school calendar which is often disrupted by strikes and all, only God knows when the current set of doctoral candidates would graduate! Angry

 Unstable school policies also contribute to the dearth of Ph.d holders. Sad There was a time, when a southern university admitted students with a Masters' degree in International Law and Diplomacy, (MILD) for a Ph.d programme in the same course. They were told that they didn't need to have a first degree in Law, to enrol for the course. So several folks started the programme. In their third year on the Ph.d course, the school authorities woke up from their slumber and decided to make it compulsory for doctoral candidates on this programme, to have a first degree in Law. Needless to say, a lot of the students without an LLB, dropped out of the course, after spending over three years on the Ph.d programme.

Tell me, from where would they start all over again??  Angry



Quote from: laudate on December 14, 2007, 05:45 PM
The person who chose 2009 as a deadline for getting a Ph.d is so out of tune with what is going on in Nigerian universities. After a Masters' degree, a candidate would have to spend an additional two years studying for an MPhil. qualification, that would qualify him or her to go in for a Ph.d. Except you had a First Class bachelor's degree, you are unlikely to be able to skip this route.

If you pass the MPhil. after the two year programme, then you become eligible to go into the Ph.d programme, which could last from 3 to 5 years depending on the course of study and the university. So it could take from 5 to 7 years to get a Ph.d in a Nigerian university, if there are no interruptions in the school calendar. So why was 2009, chosen as a deadline? It doesn't make sense! Huh

You make really valid points here. We are dealing with Nigeria.
Enigma (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #125 on: December 14, 2007, 08:02 PM »

Sometimes Nigeria really makes you despair.

There really is NO need for a stipulation that you should have a PhD in order to work as a university lecturer. What the government really needs to do is to encourage research in the universities by as many lecturers as possible --- this the government should do by paying them reasonably well (the govt has made some progress here though some way still to go); provide facilities - books, journals, ICT, comfortable libraries and offices; provide, and encourage provision by others, of research grants; have a system of assessing and comparing research in different universities - though as far as possible without antagonism; sponsor/encourage productive overseas research trips and exchanges etc.

A lot of the best academics both in Nigeria and abroad do not have PhDs; in fact (I might be wrong) I believe that Professor Wole Soyinka only has a first degree. In Cambridge, Oxford, LSE etc, many professors only have at best a masters --- some only a first degree but they devote their life to research and become world experts ------ without a PhD.

In some areas of study/endeavour, I daresay that a PhD is ultimately a waste of time and especially - if your aim is to make money. The three or more lonely years spent obtaining a PhD might be more usefully spent rising in industry.

debosky (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #126 on: December 14, 2007, 08:07 PM »

Quote from: Enigma on December 14, 2007, 08:02 PM

A lot of the best academics both in Nigeria and abroad do not have PhDs; in fact (I might be wrong) I believe that Professor Wole Soyink only has a first degree.

Are you a jester or a clown? The best academics don't have phD's? What do they have then? Bachelor's degrees?  Shocked Shocked Huh

I don't know whether you went to school in the UK or not, so please tell me if you had any phd professors and possibly the name of the institution so we can make a judgment.

PHD programs are the driving force of research worldwide, the stipulation is going to force people to engage in research or be kicked out, there are grant funding agencies in Nigeria, probably not as much as there should be, but they exist, many years there are no quality proposals deserving awards. The NLNG prize for Science was not awarded for 2 years due to paucity of proposals. Now that is just lazy. They need to get off their butts and work!
Enigma (m)
Re: NUC: Lecturers Must Obtain Doctorate Degree By 2009
« #127 on: December 14, 2007, 08:10 PM »

@ debosky

Yep; I repeat that a lot of the best academics in Nigeria and internationally do not have a PhD.

It might interest you to note that I myself obtained a PhD in 1997 --- so I'm not writing because of some complex.



edit
Oh, by the way I went to the LSE among others ---- and actually, most of the professors in my field did not have a PhD ---- and they are international experts. Many only have a first degree --- i.e. no masters degree even

It's just amazing sometimes how misinformed people can be!

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