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Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 1:02am
malvisguy212:
from birth,moses was keept safe by God himself,infact ,it was God himself that buried moses.

Are you a pastor? Am surprise you dont understand the teaching of christ.
John 5:24."Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who
sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over
from death to life.

THE BELIEVERS WILL NOT STAND IN FRONT OF GOD FOR JUDGMENT.

Let's leave the Pastor part out of it. Otherwise it would be like appealing to authority to back what I'm saying with the name Pastor.

I know God kept Moses safe from birth, it is recorded in the bible, just like the way God has kept me safe from birth and kept you safe from birth and will continue to do so by his grace. However the question I asked was 'Was Moses without Sin?'.

I believe you are confusing different aspects of Judicial process here. There is judgment which is an evaluation of a situation. Then there is Judgment which is executed after the evaluation.

In modern parlance you would call both Trial and Sentencing.

You are saying that Christians will not stand Trial at all. When I read John 5:24 understand 'Krisin' to mean Sentencing. Christians will not be sentenced.
In fact I think that the KJV captures it best:


24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


They will undergo Trial and after trial they will not be Condemned. They will not be Sentenced.
Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 12:32am
OLAADEGBU:


Below is an article that answers your objections with Scriptures:



I didn't see anything about selective memory in that article. Not to mention scriptures talking about selective memory.


However I noticed this:
It is a uniplural noun, however,specific usage depending on context,

As a little exercise in textual analysis for you to do, .... Can Context be found within a text?

I repeat. Can the context of a text be determined simply by considering the Text, OR is context always imposed on a text from the outside?

If it is difficult for you to think about this using the bible then try using any text. Try your morning newspaper.

If the context is found outside the text then by what Authority is the context determined. This is important to stop any tom dick and ola from making up contexts for biblical passages out of the top of their heads. For example, claiming selective Memory.
Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 9:18pm On Nov 23
malvisguy212:
the ark of the covenant illustrate the holiness of God.The Ark of the Covenant was an embodiment of God's presence with
the Israelites. The atonement cover (or "mercy seat"wink that covered the
ark was God's throne (2 Sam 6:2) and God's presence was above it (Lev 16:2); it was also the place where God met Moses and gave him commands (Ex 25:22). If someone approached the ark, they would effectively be in God's presence - a sinner standing before a holy God
who does not tolerate evil (Ps 5:4-6) - and would die as a result of their sins.this is the holiness of God.

So in short, you are saying that Moses was without sin.


malvisguy212:

Revelation 20:11-12.is not talking about the believers,This is a judgment against non-Christians only. This occurs immediately before God ushers believers into the eternal state.BELIEVERS WILL NOT STAND IN FRONT OF THE THRONE OF GOD FOR JUDGMENT. Everyone who rejected Jesus Christ will give an account for his or her rebellion against God’s will.

Whether it involves Christians or not the bottom-line is that they are judged according to their deeds.

That it is not about christians is your own invention.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 6:00pm On Nov 23
malvisguy212:
i will advice you to understand the holiness of God.
Good deed is not enough for you to fill with the holiness of God.

Okay, I'll make a study of the Holiness of God soon. But let's stick with this matter of salvation by human effort for now.

Why is 'Good deed not enough to fill with the holiness of God'? I don't understand what you mean even at the level of basic grammar. What do you mean by 'filling with the holiness of God'? I thought we were talking about salvation by which I presume you mean 'forgiveness of sins'.

malvisguy212:

Here is a passage from quran.
Allah Says in the Holy Quran Chapter 101 Surah Al-Qariah verses 6-11:
6 Then he whose balance (of good deeds) will be (found) heavy 7 Will
be in a life of good pleasure and satisfaction. 8 But he whose balance
(of good deeds) will be (found) light 9 Will have his home in a
(bottomless) pit. 10 And what will explain to thee what this is? 11 (It
is) a Fire, blazing fiercely!

..But christianity teaches the exact same thing.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (Rev 20:11–12)


malvisguy212:

In the case of job, the promise has not yet been fulfilled hence the sacrifice to attained holiness.jesus has already pay the price to those who believe in him, man need not to sacrifice any more, are you a pastor? You shuld'nt be talking about sacrifice, Because christ has already pay the price for us. I gave you a verse from the bible, ephesian 2:8. Did you read it? Romans 6:23 say it is the FREE GIFTS OF GOD.
Judaism are still expecting the christ, meaning they do not believe in the finishing work of Christ.

I wasn't talking about fulfilling promises or needing to sacrifice anymore. I was giving you an example of a religion in which 'forgiveness of sins', which I believe is what you mean by salvation, is achieved without the sinner even knowing about the sacrifice. This refutes your claim that All religions require salvation by human effort. That was my simple point. Have you got anything to say about that, or are you prepared to withdraw the false claim?
Gospel should not be spread with lies!!

1 Like

Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 4:38pm On Nov 23
RikoduoSennin:


...

Mennhhh! those were some killer scriptures you quoted for the guy. Dem be like combination. 2 left hooks swiftly followed by headbutt and finished off with flying drop kick.

1 Like

Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 4:25pm On Nov 23
malvisguy212:
did you read the op?
God design the moral law that mankind can live in peace with one another, ,the physical law of man did not contradict the moral law, any religion that his teaching contradict this two law are not from God.

All religion teaches that salvation can be attained by human effort(good deed)your good deed can saved you,example, if a man killed your loved one and he was arrested,only,but on the day of his judgment, the judge consider his Good deed and free'd him, can you called the judge a good judge?. christianity teaches that salvation is the free gift of God(romans 6:23) , your good deed cannot saved you, you are saved by the mercy of God,example, if you are a bad man and you truly repent but the next day you die, the bad things you do cannot be counted because you genuely repent and God forgive you bible say "loved cover a multitude of sin".

Hello Malvisguy, You still haven't articulated for us what Religion is supposed to do exactly. You seem to suggest it vaguely when you say .... All religion teaches that salvation can be attained by human effort ....

The question of 'what is Salvation' is pertinent here, but let us leave it for now. It'll be like an elephant in the room.

I wonder how extensive your study of all religions are, before you can make the sweeping statement that
All religion teaches that salvation can be attained by human effort.

In ATR if you offend a deity you can get remission by offering certain sacrifices. These religions have moral codes but in them we find a lot of the time that remission for offences can be settled by making certain sacrifices.

In Judaism, from which xtianity is derived and which predates xtianity, remission from sins is settled by certain sin offerings. Prior to Judaism, in the bible, we are told the story of Job who would make sacrifices on behalf of his children to settle their sins. His children were not even aware. That is another case of religion where sins are forgiven without the sinner actually doing anything.

I'm presuming that by 'salvation' you mean forgiveness of sins. If you mean something else please let us know.

In Islam Allah is supposed to be able to forgive just like that without requiring the effort of killing Jesus. The only human effort required is contrition.

please can you tell me how Christianity requires even less effort than these?
Religion / Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 3:48pm On Nov 22
sinequanon:


So, the African Traditional Religion is the only one couched in terms of REVENGE?

I curious to know whice ATR exactly. or has ATR become one religion.
Religion / Re: Why Most Terrorists Are Muslims. by PastorAIO: 3:46pm On Nov 22
Sagamite:


Nah, I disagree.

There was no meaningful discussion taking place in the first place.

Islam is BY FAR the most VIOLENT major religion on Earth today.


You guys have totally fallen for the ploy. Thoroughly mugu-ed. The media is a set up and some of us are still gobbling down what they tell us Hook, Line and Sinker.

No body answered my question about whether Nelson Mandela is a terrorist. He remained on the US terrorist watchlist until 2008. If you can find out why, then I believe we'll get a step closer to finding out why there are so many Islamic terrorists in the world today.

The fact is that all Abrahamic religions are Violent. Full stop. the violence is there in reserve. All it needs is the right situation to aggravate it and it will explode onto the world. It has happened in all of them at various stages in history when the situation aggravated it.

Also, in the same time, in countries where these religions prevailed, when the situation was more conducive, there has been great advances in human social development and philosophical and scientific development. etc.

Perhaps the religion is not the determining factor.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 1:01pm On Nov 22
twaintoy:
Thanks. A friend told me females are not allowed to see Odu. How true is this and why?

That's true but I don't know why.
Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 11:31am On Nov 22
OLAADEGBU:


The Jews were guilty of using selective memory. cheesy

Please can you back this up with scripture or are you just forming this out of the top of your head.
Religion / Re: What Is The Hypostatic Union? How Can Jesus Be Both God And Man Simultaneously by PastorAIO: 11:28am On Nov 22
OLAADEGBU:


No. Excerpts from the article:


If Jesus wasn't human before he incarnated in the flesh then his humanity was grafted on, it wasn't a part of his nature.
Religion / Re: Why Most Terrorists Are Muslims. by PastorAIO: 11:21am On Nov 22
Was Nelson Mandela a terrorist?
Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 11:01am On Nov 22
I think first and foremost it would help if you could tell us what Religion is supposed to do.

When we know that we can then compare and contrast. and we can see which religions get us the best results.

malvisguy212:
Agnostics often fall into two camps - those who believe that all
religions can lead to God or those who believe that true religion cannot
be discerned. This page examines both positions in an attempt to
determine where the truth may lie. Logically, there are several
possibilities. Atheists would say that no religion leads to God, since He
doesn't exist. It is possible that one, several or all religions lead to God.

ALL WAYS LEAD TO GOD:
There are hundreds of religions in the world today, and many ancient
religions that are no longer practiced. It is possible, and perhaps likely,
that all religions contain some truth and/or good moral advice.
However, in examining religious teaching, it is important to examine
the fundamental beliefs of each religion and compare those to each
other. When this is done, it is apparent that primary religious teachings contradict each other. Judaism says that the Messiah is coming,
Christianity says that He has come, and Islam says that Mohammad
provided all the information necessary for religious life. Obviously,
these truth claims cannot be simultaneously true, since they contradict
each other. Logically, we must reject the idea that all religions lead to
God.

TRUE RELIGEON:IS IT POSSIBLE TO DISCERN?
I believe that there are some things that we can discern about God
from the nature of the universe. The universe demonstrates some
remarkable evidence of design. What kind of God designed all this, and how can we know His true identity? Most people who believe God
exists would agree with the argument that the God who designed the
universe must be a personal God. For God to put so much time and care
into the design of the universe and life, it would seem logical to
conclude that God really cared about His creation, and was personally
involved in it's creation. A God who did not care about his creation would never be expected to spend 14 billion years of development
just so that humans would have a nice place to live for a few thousand
years. Therefore, it would seem likely that the true God must be a
personal God, and not the God of deism, pantheism, Buddhism, etc. So,
it would seem that these religions probably do not represent the true
nature of God.
ELIMINATE THE ILLOGICAL:
The powerful and personal Creator God of the universe would probably
want to reveal Himself to His spiritual creatures. So, it seems likely that
God would have revealed His true nature to one or more of the
peoples of the earth. Are all the revelations of the world religions a
reflection of God or just certain one(s)? This is the difficult question that
cannot be answered in merely one short page. However, I believe one can come up with a best answer through much study and through the
process of elimination. For example, some religions make truth claims
that are obviously false. The LDS church (Mormons) claims that gods are created through procreation and that creatures created by those gods can eventually become gods themselves. However, this religion suffers
from the problem of how the first god came into existence. Logic
would dictate that God is eternal and uncreated. All religions that claim
otherwise would seem to be logically flawed.
BASIC RELIGEON CLAIM:
Since many religious claims contradict one another, it would seem that
not all religions could be simultaneously true. How can we tell which
religion(s) are true? If you examine the world religions, most describe
ethical and moral laws that are ascribed to God. Breaking of those laws
is an offense to God. How do different religions handle that problem?
Many religions say that if one tries to obey God's laws most of the time, God will accept you. However, I believe that we can eliminate
that idea as being true of the Creator God of the universe. God designed
physical laws of the universe. These laws are constant and
unbreakable. God Himself, seems to break those physical laws only
rarely. I propose that this God would not accept the breaking of His
moral laws so easily. In fact, from the nature of the physical laws, it would seem that God would not accept the breaking of His moral laws
at all. Nearly all religions claim that God will ignore our breaking of His
moral laws as long as we try our best. This is where Christianity differs
from all other world religions. Christianity says that our good works
cannot erase our bad moral choices. Think of it in terms of our legal
systems. We are convicted of crimes on the basis of breaking the law. If we break a law, we are found guilty under the law. It doesn't matter
what good things we have done in our lives, if we break the law. We
might get a lesser sentence, but we will still be convicted of a crime.
So, God cannot simply ignore our crimes against Him. We will be found
guilty, despite our good works. Christianity says that our bad deeds
(sins) must be eliminated in order to be acceptable to God. The elimination of sins was accomplished by the sacrifice of the Savior
(Jesus Christ). Jesus Christ is God Himself, who came to earth, led a sinless life, and died on the cross as a sacrifice to take the sins of
mankind. So, God Himself provided a means of eliminating our sins
against Him. However, the elimination of sins is not automatic. Since
God will allow people into His presence after death, they must agree to
His terms. This contract is executed through faith in the sacrifice of
Jesus Christ to eliminate our sins. By accepting God's terms, our sins are erased and we can stand in the presence of God without any sin. Only
our good deeds will be counted for our judgment. Those who don't
accept God's terms will be judged on the basis of God's laws - and will
be found guilty.
CHRISTIANITY IS DIFFERENT :
No other religion provides a provision for God's forgiveness of
sin, which is why I believe Christianity to be the only true way
to God. Jesus said He is the only way to God and that all people
must follow Him to enter heaven. All other religions are man's attempt to become acceptable to God. Only Christianity says
that God alone provides the only means to be acceptable to
Him. So, either Christianity is true and all other religions are false or
Christianity is false and God does not hold people accountable for law
breaking. Personally, I would not want to rely upon God ignoring His
own rules. It doesn't seem to be logical reasoning. This is the choice you must make.

CONCLUSION:
So, I encourage you to examine the world religions to see if what I am
saying is true. Don't give up on the ability to separate the truth claims
of the world's religions. If Christianity is true, you must make a choice
or you will be judged on the basis of your sins against God. Let me
know if you have any questions.
Religion / Re: All Religions Lead To God? Can One Discern The True Religion? by PastorAIO: 10:55am On Nov 22
malvisguy212:
according to you "there are 41 00000 christians sect" what the caused of this? Is it not because of doctrin? Which doctrin? The doctrine of jesus christ. Now, is it not because of jesus teaching that caused this division ?you are taking this discussion backwards.

You accused me of lying, i challenge you to provide were i lied, you are asking me to help you do it, are you lazy? So now paul teaching dose not contradict jesus own, it's me. May God forgive your lies.

Let me repeat myself again, show me were christians kill them self NOWADAYS like the muslims do today?

The fact of the matter is that People killing themselves is NOT a matter of religion but a matter of geopolitics. If it was a matter of religion then muslims everywhere at all times would be killing themselves or not. And likewise Christians everywhere at all times would either be killing themselves or not.

Malvisguy's insistence on reference to 'NOWADAYS' rather than over the course of history of religion is a clear giveaway that the situation he is referring to is due to the current geopolitical set up, and not due to any religion as such.

Politics makes much use of religion. For instance, what does the message of christianity have to do with the Liberation Theology of the African American civil rights movement? When Martin Luther King says that 'I've been to the mountaintop and I've seen the promised land', he is not talking about Canaan. He was using religious rhetoric to make a political point.
Religion / Re: Ifa Orisa Religion - Is This Our True Identity: Our True Religion by PastorAIO: 10:39am On Nov 22
twaintoy:
I would love to know what Itefa means? What Is it all about? Am sure female can do it. And what is ODU?

Itefa is the Ifa initiation.

Odu is the sacred wife of Orunmila, the womb of the world, a sacred container, a deep mystery.
Religion / Re: Why Sticking To A Specific Religion Doesnt Make Sence by PastorAIO: 9:55pm On Nov 18
habiolah:


then you are not a christian sir.

Christianity does not mean what you think it means (neither does it mean what I think it means); it simply means what the Bible says it means.

I do believe you cannot even begin to understand it yet, as you don't even believe in the divine inspiration of the Bible.

The best you can be is to be moral, you cannot be a christian (even if you call yourself one: Rom 9:6)

I hope I didn't sound harsh. Didn't mean to be.

What does the bible say it means?
Religion / Re: What Is The Hypostatic Union? How Can Jesus Be Both God And Man Simultaneously by PastorAIO: 12:08pm On Nov 17
OLAADEGBU:


I'll allow this article to deal with your objections.



Your article deals with nothing. My question was simple.

Before Jesus' incarnation as son of Mary, WAS Jesus Human?

1 Like

Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 11:53am On Nov 17
OLAADEGBU:


"I and my Father are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do you stone me? The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone you not; but for blasphemy; and because that you, being a man, make yourself God" (John 10:30-33).

It is clearly stated that the Jews were accusing our Lord Jesus Christ for blasphemy as is bolded in the passage above.

you didn't address my questions.

1.. Who was that psalm obscure for, Jews, or for you?

2. Since the Jews commonly used the term God for humans in their scripture, why were they shocked when Jesus used the term?

3. Were those other 'gods' that Psalm 82 refers to the same as Jesus?
Religion / Re: What Is The Hypostatic Union? How Can Jesus Be Both God And Man Simultaneously by PastorAIO: 11:13am On Nov 15
OLAADEGBU:
Question: "What is the hypostatic union? How can Jesus be both God and man at the same time?"

Jesus' two natures, human and divine, are inseparable. Jesus will forever be the God-man, fully God and fully human, two distinct natures in one Person.
Jesus has always existed (John 8:58, 10:30). When Jesus was conceived, He became a human being in addition to being God (John 1:1, 14).

Jesus is both God and man. Jesus has always been God, but He did not become a human being until He was conceived in Mary. Jesus became a human being in order to identify with us

The question that I want to ask, dear doctor, is this ....

Before Jesus was conceived in Mary, when he was in heaven ...... was he also fully Human then? Or did the Hypostatic, 2 natures thingy only start when he was conceived in Mary.

because the way you are talking it seems as if you want to redefine the word 'nature'. Nature, from 'natus' in latin, meaning the way you were Born. Nature thus suggests an intrinsic aspect of your being. Apart from the logical difficulty with having 2 natures ( it would be easier if it were 1 nature that manifested in 2 different ways but this matter has already been thrashed out with the Monophysites long time ago), a nature is something that has always being with you from the beginning, therefore Jesus must always have been Human too.
Religion / Re: What Is The Church? by PastorAIO: 10:58am On Nov 15
Image123:


italo referred specifically to MILLIONS of contradictory doctrines. The word 'doctrine' itself is used loosely. On difference in opinions, i think even family members have different opinions and understanding on several issues, it doesn't mean they are not family. The same thing with church. You may want to consider what is major and what is minor. Are there millions of contradictory doctrines on who is the way to eternal life? Etc. It's either one believes there is hell or there's no hell. There are no million beliefs in that, just about two or so.

There are only 2 beliefs on the subject of hell. 1, there is no hell. and 2, there is hell. That one is not rocket science.

Are there millions of contradictory doctrines on who is the way to eternal life?

apparently so. Of course there are many that bandy the name Jesus about, but that does not mean that they are talking about the same thing. 'In Jesus name' is now just a formula that people tag on to the end of prayers to give the prayer more oomph!

Doctrine, the word, can be used loosely to mean any number of things. For example you yourself are now using it to mean opinions and understanding, and to be fair to you, such usage has precedents. But I believe that the way that it is used in Church history and in this present case is in it's original etymological sense of TEACHING (from Latin docere, to teach).

Can the church have different contradictory teachings?
Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 2:29am On Nov 15
OLAADEGBU:


Our Lord Jesus was only basing the entire defense against the charge of blasphemy on the word, "gods," in a relatively obscure Psalm 82:6. And He says that the word actually written down cannot be broken. If the Jews could use the same word in judging people why is it not proper for the One who the Father has specifically "sent into the world" identify Himself as such?

Come again. this is a very dodgy parking.

Are you saying that they jews didn't know Psalm 82? Who was it obscure for? The Jews? Or for you?

So the Jews commonly use the word 'god' for human beings yet were shocked when Jesus called himself god.

Were those other human beings for whom the word is used God the same way Jesus was God?
Religion / Re: BREAKING NEWS: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by PastorAIO: 2:12am On Nov 15
vooks:
How do you catch HIV because you failed to offer Firstfruits?
Can any present or former Christ Embassy confirm/deny if there is such a teaching

Gombs,mbaemeka.....

Well, you know that some kinds of people like to be promiscuous and that in so being they have a high risk of catching std. If you offer firstfruits the good lord will turn a blind eye to your promiscuity and absolve you of all std. But if you should fail at any juncture, then the full wrath of the good lawd will descend upon thee.

std like HIV have nothing to do with lifestyle and sexual patterns but everything to do with first fruits.

4 Likes

Religion / Re: What Is The Church? by PastorAIO: 7:17pm On Nov 14
Hiswordxray:


You still see the Church as a number of denominations and buildings.
Is like am speaking one language and you are speaking another. We won't understand each other and I hate arguing.

Am saying this again with love, "you need to have a revelation of what the Church is ".

Actually he hasn't uttered a word about denominations or buildings. It's a straight forward question. Can there be a plethora of contradictory doctrines within the church or not? It is a simple Yes, or no, answer. Or may a simple Yes, No, or 'It's Complicated answer'. I don't know if he'll accept it's complicated but I would accept it because I would love to delve into the complications.
Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 2:36pm On Nov 14
OLAADEGBU:


But the Jews were articulate with their reasons. The truth is that they didn't understand the meaning of what is called the "hypostatic union" hence they called it blasphemy which is punishable by death according to the Mosaic Law.

Since you've broadened the context to included the response of the Jews, why not properly go all the way and consider what Jesus then said in response to that.

34Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? 35If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken— 36do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world,

The sense in which Jesus apparently used God could equally be applicable to the ancient judges of Israel.

It would therefore follow from these verses ...


that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
john 17:21.....

That said divinity can be applied to all of Jesus' followers. He makes no distinction between his being in the father and the father in him, and his followers being in Him and the father together.

1 Like

Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 12:18pm On Nov 14
OLAADEGBU:


So what's blasphemous about that? The Jews certainly thought that what Jesus said was blasphemous.

From my experience of human nature one doesn't need to offend someone before someone gets offended.
Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 12:05pm On Nov 14
OLAADEGBU:


Why then did the Jews pick up stones to lynch Him?

You're gonna have to ask the jews for the answers to that one. It seems in the gospels that everything Jesus said and did rubbed them up the wrong way. Have you every thought about that? Why would that be?
Religion / Re: BREAKING NEWS: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by PastorAIO: 11:54am On Nov 14
this requires a thread of its own.

vooks:
You need to watch this to understand how miracles are manufactured/staged and the gullible fooled


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8vhmb_bX1E

One would do well to read James Randi an atheist's expose on these back in the eighties

Religion / Re: What Did Jesus Mean When He Said, "I And The Father Are One" In John 10:30? by PastorAIO: 12:54am On Nov 14
that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me, and I in you, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me.
john 17:21

1 Like

Religion / Re: BREAKING NEWS: Joagbaje’s Miracle HIV Healing Claim Debunked by PastorAIO: 9:11pm On Nov 13
Oh Gosh! Just when I thought NL was getting dry. You guys came through eventually.

3 Likes

Religion / Re: What Is The Church? by PastorAIO: 1:38pm On Nov 13
Image123:


The church is the body of Christ, body parts are different from one another in a sense but in cohesion in the big picture.

There is a traditional yoruba prayer that Where your Head wants to go, May your feet take you there.

Body parts may be different, but if they don't share the same agenda, na confusion be that o!

I guess Italo was asking whether it is possible for the church to have so many different doctrines and still remain the church. Not whether there are different parts. some are healers, some are prophets bla bla bla, some are deacons bla bla bla, but each of these people are not going to carry a different doctrine on their head.
Religion / Re: Flaws Definition Of God Exposes In Atheism by PastorAIO: 8:58am On Nov 13
@ Wiegraf

You believe in juju you aren't an atheist, simples. They are the same concept(s) as god just using different nomenclature.

Just as shaky as our NON-definitions of Natural is our NON-definition of a god as we can see on this thread. If we can't be agreed on what is a god then how do we even start a discussion on atheism.


Strictly speaking you are correct in that some 'spiritual' people, like some buddhists, would refer to themselves as atheist. Strictly speaking again, in normal parlance, you are correct; they are atheist. But I, personally, think that's extremely shortsighted.

Strictly speaking I believe the only way to have a conversation on this topic is to speak strictly within the confines of terms as defined. Anything else and we'll soon find that we are deceiving ourselves tossing words and phrases about that probably sound good but when analysed will be found to mean nothing.


As for definitions as to what supernatural would be, and if their definition allows for them to show that they exist that's another long story I too do not particularly have the time to address properly. But yes, I believe they can be demonstrated if they do indeed exist, and would not fall under the definition of natural just because they have been observed/verified in some manner or the other. Perhaps I will be back to elaborate.

An essay that helped my thoughts on the Naturalism debate a lot was written by Keith Augustine. Please let me know what you think of it:

http://infidels.org/library/modern/keith_augustine/thesis.html


The Meaning of 'Nature' or 'Natural'

Danto's definition of a natural cause, while capturing very general features of natural causation and natural causal explanation, does not shed much light on what is meant by the term 'natural' itself. One obvious candidate for what is meant by the term 'natural' is physical. The earliest forms of naturalism, in fact, were versions of materialism or physicalism which maintained that everything that exists is physical. As I have construed naturalism, simple (reductive) physicalism maintains that everything that exists within nature is physical and solely influenced by physical causes. However, the prominent twentieth century debate over materialism in the philosophy of mind has revealed several difficulties with reductive physicalism as a solution to the mind-body problem.

One of the most persistent difficulties for reductive physicalism has been the apparent inability of physicalistic explanations to capture qualitative features of conscious experience. It has been persuasively argued that qualia--the experiential feels of 'what it is like' to be in a conscious mental state--cannot be captured by any physicalistic explanations in principle because physicalistic explanations inherently refer to objective or public features of phenomena, whereas the experiential features of consciousness are inherently subjective or private (Teller 1992, pp. 190-191). While such arguments for the irreducibility of consciousness are not the last word on the subject, they have not been decisively refuted either--at least not in the view of several prominent philosophers. Although such difficulties may be resolved in the future, their current resistance to a clear resolution that gains widespread acceptance gives us good reason to resist simply identifying the natural with the physical.



Also, skimming through your posts, yes, causality may be a huge factor here, with 'god playing dice' etc all involved. But I can save that for another time. It is never straight forward, especially when you consider factors like how time works, eg simultaneous events in all frames is impossible, aforementioned quantum weirdness etc.

And we mustn't forget to bring Teleology into it when we get to the appropriate place.
Religion / Re: The Bible, Christians, And The Universality Of Shameless Hypocrisy. by PastorAIO: 2:12am On Nov 13
I was expecting something about christians mocking muslims that send their children as suicide bombers. When I got to the end of the OP it felt kinda empty.

Plus, you didn't mention christians that don't take the bible to be the 'constitution' of christianity.

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