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Stats: 1213823 members, 1574283 topics. Date: Friday, 01 August 2014 at 12:56 PM
|Religion / Re: The Falsehoods Of Paul by PastorAIO: 12:47pm|
Thank you, o ja re
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:38pm|
Weselion: Bros you are the one misunderstanding things, i didn't say because isreal is in the bible it is a peaceful country. Isreal cannot go to fight without a reason, when the palestines struck, nobody complained, isreal retaliated, you are crying foul. You don't believe in religion, that one is your own delusion, guy i'm not the perfect christian but due to things that have happened to me, i believe in Religion, I believe there are spirits, i believe the spiritual controls the physical and most importantly, i believe there is black magic.
Palestinians did not struck anything. 3 jewish kids got missing and they were found dead. Then without any proof that it was any palestinians that killed the kids the Israelis started bombarding Palestine. Even if it was a palestinian, could it have been a lone palestinian mass murderer, or even an israeli murderer? Why would the entire palestinian people have to suffer like that?
It is barbaric what Israel is doing. They should first do a thorough investigation into the death of those kids. Are they trying to say that if an israeli kid should trip and hurt himself today, 1000 palestinians my die for that tomorrow?
|Religion / Re: The Falsehoods Of Paul by PastorAIO: 12:32pm|
In the letter to Titus Paul quotes a very interesting phrase made by the greek philosopher Epimenides. Why did he quote it?
10For there are many unruly men, vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision, 11whose mouths must be stopped; men who overthrow whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, idle gluttons. 13This testimony is true. For which cause reprove them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth. Titus Shaptar 1
That phrase all 'Cretans are liars' is known as Epimenides paradox. It is said by a Cretan. So if all Cretans are liars then the person who said it must be lying. So is the phrase True or not. If it's true then it's not true. Paul says it's true.
If you read that passage as a mere paradoxical joke then you might miss something else that Paul might be hinting at.
You see that phrase comes from a poem that is actually referring to the death and resurrection of the Greek God Zeus. Certain people from Crete denied that Zeus resurrected and in protest the poet called them all Liars.
They fashioned a tomb for thee, O holy and high one
The Cretans, always liars, evil beasts, idle bellies!
But thou art not dead: thou livest and abidest forever,
For in thee we live and move and have our being.
— Epimenides, Cretica
O Zeus, some say that thou wert born on the hills of Ida;
Others, O Zeus, say in Arcadia;
Did these or those, O Father lie? -- “Cretans are ever liars.”
Yea, a tomb, O Lord, for thee the Cretans builded;
But thou didst not die, for thou art for ever.
— Callimachus, Hymn I to Zeus
There are a lot of things that Paul says that would make sense automatically to a greek pagan. He quotes them a lot.
The question for me is whether the teachings are of any spiritual value. I say that they are, so therefore I am less prepared to dismiss Paul's teachings as falsehoods. However I would agree that there little continuity between what Jesus taught and what Paul taught.
I hope I've been able to make a worthwhile contribution to this thread.
|Religion / Re: The Falsehoods Of Paul by PastorAIO: 12:20pm|
This thread is very long. I've been reading it with interest cos it contains many points that I've been trying to make over the last few years. However I would not go to the extreme that Sarassin has gone to. I do not think that Paul's teachings were absolute falsehood. I think that they contrast with the teachings of Jesus, but they are not always in stark contradiction. I think it is important to understand where Paul is coming from.
This whole thing about Paul Lying, I think definitely there is the problem of consistency in a lot of biblical accounts. Paul's story is inconsistent with the story in Acts. Acts contradicts itself and it contradicts Paul. Instead of going through a long thing with too many examples I think it is less time consuming to just put up one strong point and argue that point.
For example, instead of putting up a lot of issues that could easily be dismissed as mere speculations I would put up a single incident where the accounts in two part differ remarkably.
Personally I would go for the accounts of Paul's conversion and his early days as a christian. Then Ask questions as to what actually happened historically.
The Book of Acts tells it thus:
8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.
10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 and hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 and here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 for I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God
23 And after that many days were fulfilled, the Jews took counsel to kill him: 24 but their laying await was known of Saul. And they watched the gates day and night to kill him. 25 Then the disciples took him by night, and let him down by the wall in a basket. 26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple. 27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus. 28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.
Paul is brought in to the family of christians in Damascus and then introduced to the apostles in Jerusalem where he is welcomed. But what is Paul's own account of what happened?
Galatians 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by his grace, 16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: 17 Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. 18 Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
In galatians Paul is obviously trying to declare that the apostles in Jerusalem have no authority over him and so he denies even conferring with them after his conversion.
The question to ask therefore is: What happened to Paul after the Road of Damascus Conversion? Did he go to Jerusalem to be accepted by those 'which were apostles before me', Or did he go straight to the Arabian desert and confer with no one?
It is obvious that the writer of Acts is trying to place Paul in the context of the Church of Jerusalem, yet Paul himself is trying to remove himself from this context and deny it's authority over him.
Me personally, I would stick on this issue and hammer it over and over again. Otherwise the argument will just go all over the place and 10 pages later there'll be no progress, just a lot of yabis.
I'll be right back on the next post.....
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 9:45am On Jul 31|
That question in the bold is a very excellent question. While I cannot speak for today, I think we can answer it for the centuries past. Will Arabs tolerate non-muslims?
Have they tolerated nonmuslims in the past? Have they tolerated Jews? There were always Jews in Palestine even while it was until the Islamic Ottoman empire. And they fared well. So the answer to that question is
Yes They have always tolerated non muslims, especially Jews and Jews have prospered in Muslim lands. Far more so than they have in christian lands.
But that is no longer the case. What happened? What changed? If we can answer this then it'll throw a lot of light on the matter that we are seeing.
The British have a lot to answer for.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 10:15pm On Jul 30|
Chill out guys. This is not a laughing situation but I did giggle a bit when I saw this video.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:46pm On Jul 30|
and Nelson Mandela was called a terrorist by Margaret Thatcher and the British government.
And he was called a terrorist by Ronald Reagan and the US Govt. In fact he was only removed from the terrorist list in the year 2007.
I believe he was also considered terrorist by the Australian govt and the Israeli govt, though I can't confirm that for now.
The point I'm trying to make is that calling people terrorists is getting tired now. We all know it is just a ploy to discredit your opponents during a freedom struggle.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:30pm On Jul 30|
Terrorists like Nelson Mandela.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:21pm On Jul 30|
May I ask why you spell Israel with a t in it?
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:20pm On Jul 30|
You nor dey follow me talk again? I asked some questions...
How did Israel become a legitimate country?
could you expand on what you mean on 'if the bible is anything to go by'...?
I won't get into the other claims you made cos I just want to stick with the historical root of the issue.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 11:30am On Jul 30|
How did Israel become a legitimate country?
could you expand on what you mean on 'if the bible is anything to go by'...?
I won't get into the other claims you made cos I just want to stick with the historical root of the issue.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 11:11am On Jul 30|
shdemidemi: Can we speak about the present relationship between these two separate nations...
You're a 'christian'. Does it make sense to talk about redemption without talking about the Fall?
Does it make sense for a doctor to prescribe a medication without first doing a diagnosis of what went wrong?
In court, does it make sense to pass judgement without first investigated a case to it's origins?
Why is there Hatred between Israel and Arab nations? Can you explain to me why anyone should suddenly start hating another person?
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 10:14am On Jul 30|
What did you smoke this early morning? Did I say that they love them? Egyptians, Palestinains, Iraq are recent creations as modern nations. Islamic societies through history have been more tolerant and welcoming of Jews that any christian society ever. This all changed sometime in the 20th century. Try and make a study of the change and why it happened.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 10:08am On Jul 30|
OMG! He is really piling up the BS high and thick.
This man is obviously a propaganda tool. Check out 5:40, His father who was an imam did not really completely understand Islam, but obviously he does.This is just anti islam propaganda that he is dishing out. So his father had a noble goal to bring happiness to people but he tried to do it through Islam and islam was incapable of delivering that promise. So What religion or political system since the dawn of time has actually delivered that promise? I must ask that question.
'Muhammed couldn't bring justice and happiness to his people 1400 years ago', he says. I don't know that much about islam but I know that there is no religion and few ideologies that do not promise some sort of an Utopian ideal. People say the same thing that Jesus died 2000 years ago and yet we are still suffering, and everybody is still sinning so what difference did he make. You see this kind of thinking totally misses the point.
Muhammad and all the islamic leaderships could not bring justice and happiness to the world, HOWEVER the islamic civilisations for half a millennium were at the cutting edge of human progress and human civic progress. All the knowledge of the ancients were preserved by them while the christians of western europe were descending into barbarity. All the Europe has today started when they made more intimate contact with Islamic civilisations. So you see that guy is just absolutely wrong on historical grounds. It is no surprise that he does not cite any actual instances where 'they brought destruction on themselves'.
Menh. I've watched enough for now.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 9:53am On Jul 30|
shdemidemi: @pastr AIO
I'm watching it now. I won't be able to watch it all this morning. However from the little I've watched I've already found one error (at 4:00) and he calls it the 'most' important reason why he hates Israel. He says, 'Allah does not like jews'. What!!?
Yet the facts show that Jews have always thrived in Islamic countries. It is the christian Europeans that do not like Jews. It is the New testament that is infused full of Anti-semitic propaganda. Every time the Jews are cleansed out of a european country they run to an islamic country where they are given shelter.
I'll watch some more and comment later.
|Religion / Re: Contra Bibliolatreia I Mark 10:5 by PastorAIO: 3:22pm On Jul 29|
Tgirl4real: Conclusion of the matter:
It might edify you to read this post: http://www.nairaland.com/1795370/how-does-translation-process-impact/2#25062560
|Religion / Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by PastorAIO: 3:18pm On Jul 29|
Ol boi, it's the slipperiest slope that anybody can choose to stand on. The Bible makes so many mistakes all the time everywhere. Even internally, it is internally inconsistent with itself.
As it is written in Isaiah the prophet: "BEHOLD, I SEND MY MESSENGER AHEAD OF YOU, WHO WILL PREPARE YOUR WAY; Mark 1 verse 2
If God wrote this, surely God himself would know his own inspiration and know that Isaiah the prophet said no such thing. The writer of Mark was quoting Malachi 3 vs 1. He got muddled up and attributed it to Isaiah. Now, would God make such a mistake.
And let's not forget how these people like to jump and dance if someone else should make the slightest error in quoting the bible, even spelling mistake sef. So we see, according to them, God demonstrating ignorance of his own scripture. How they must look down on God for that?
It was even on this thread that the OP was trying to start a parade, even a pageant sef, over a line about kissing the son. If that was worth the brouhaha then how much more will he dance over God not knowing one prophet from the next.
|Religion / Re: How Does The Translation Process Impact The Inspiration, Inerrancy Of The Bible? by PastorAIO: 1:35pm On Jul 29|
That's the problem. When people read the narrative text that is obviously referring to contemporary events and cannot accept that so they say it is a prophecy and try to back date it even though the narrator is speaking in the present tense. Once people allow themselves to to breach all rigour in their analysis like this then we can end up anywhere when we read the text. You can even say that since God is eternal and not confined to Time and he is the writer of the bible then it follows that the proper use of tenses will not concern him. He can talk of the future as if it is the present or the past and the past as if it were the future.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 9:32am On Jul 29|
That is a very good question that I think every self acclaimed christian on this forum should attempt to answer for themselves. I for one, know that righteousness is not perpetuating evil acts and claiming that it's okay and you're righteous because God magically 'imputes' righteousness unto you and ignores your actual actions.
|Religion / Re: Moral Judgement And Brain Chemistry by PastorAIO: 3:35am On Jul 29|
Hmmmmm... Material versus non-material. You guys nor go take this matter (pun?) kill me. If I start asking for definitions I'm sure someone will jump down my throat. But a sticking point with me is that there is yet to be articulated an authoritative definition of Materialism, or naturalism or physicalism as some call it.
Let me add to the confusion, or perhaps clear up the confusion, that materialist philosophers have with definitions. I want to presume that you mean Corporeality. ie. to rephrase your question, " would you say both aspects you speak of, malleable and adamant, have a corporeal base?"
In other words are they made up of Bodies extended in space. To which my answer is that I haven't properly thought about it in that way yet. However if you give me a couple of days, maybe till tomorrow (24 hours) then I'll provide some sort of an answer.
|Religion / Re: Moral Judgement And Brain Chemistry by PastorAIO: 1:04am On Jul 29|
good luck with trying to get one. I'll reserve my energy if you don't mind.
E no easy but I go try. I know you don't believe in God, but hypothetically consider God and let's ask . . . Does God have free will? Or is God bound to his essential characteristics?
i.e Could God decide to do something ungodly?
When we make decisions, are these decisions contrary to our essential nature in anyway? If they aren't and they cannot be then are we not deterministic creatures. Are the things we do not bound to our essential nature?
Since we exist with characteristics it follows that our behaviour must be limited to our characteristics.
Yet we find ourselves molded by our environment. So is it the environment and the circumstances of our being that confer our characteristics on us? Or is there a radical and essential character that is the true I ? What if there are two aspects to our being? A malleable part and an Adamant part. The Malleable part is shaped by temporal circumstances and plays a part in determining the choices we make. Then the Adamant part is inert to circumstances and remains itself regardless of what occurs to it. it too can play a part in determining the choices we make.
Thus Free Will is not Actually Free (as in totally random) but rather it is Free (as in uninfluenced by circumstances).
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:19am On Jul 29|
Kai, I see I made a grave error in actually responding to that nasty fellow. Last last he managed to distract from the flow of the thread without adding anything or countering anything that was said before. He didn't even read the thread.
I should be more vigilant against this type of obfuscation in the future.
|Religion / Re: Moral Judgement And Brain Chemistry by PastorAIO: 12:00am On Jul 29|
Ah ha! Wiegraf and Chrisbenogor all of a sudden and on one thread. Folykaze you be magicksian. This your thread get power o!!
And to connect what Wiegraf said to what Folykaze OPed, just in case some don't get the obvious.... What happens in your environment, what nourishment you eat, events that you experience etc they all affect the neurochemical balance of your brain. A kid brought up in a happy environment will have a different neurochemical balance in his bloodstream from a child brought up in an unhappy environment , All other things being equal.
However, having said that I still believe in Free Will. Just in a different way from how a lot of others see it.
|Religion / Re: Moral Judgement And Brain Chemistry by PastorAIO: 12:42pm On Jul 28|
I have an uncle who is on some strong medication for liver problems. His personality has changed. He snaps at people without a moment's notice. He will just start shouting and yabbing you in the most hurtful way. Yet he can't help any of this. It's the medication. A lot of the time when we go out I find myself apologising on his behalf. I apologise to waitresses to cab drivers and even to close friends, I have to remind them that he doesn't really mean it and he's not himself.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 2:37am On Jul 28|
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 1:44am On Jul 28|
seagulsntrawler: As regard the question by the op, i do not think the majority of the people in israel today are actually jews. You need to dig deep to know that a more sinister and powerful force at play here. Two things you need to do. 1. Do a research on jews from khazaria in old soviet union and their influence in world politics. 2. A research on the occult symbols in the supreme court of israel will give you a hint. Lastly,who is this quote refering to.`i know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty,(but thou art rich) and i know the blasphemy of them which say they are jews, but are the synagogue of satan' rev 2:9. Think people. Think.
LOL! I know about the Khazarians. The thing is that the Khazarians disappeared from the face of Europe. Naturally they probably would have blended into the other Jews of europe but then again it is said that they were not very pious jews.
Furthermore there has been genetic research into the Ashkenazy Jews and it is found that most of them are more related to Iran than to Turkey or Ukraine. (Although that could have been a zionist cover up cos I got it from a zionist site . )
However what I think is a hard to dispute fact is that the ashkenazis and many Jews today are not descendants of Abraham. and those that are have only very very little semitic blood. Which of course makes a joke of the term antisemitic cos most of the arabs are actually semites.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 1:30am On Jul 28|
I never said that it was new or special. I said that Israel military target civilians and civilian infrastructure. That was the point. I was asked to prove it and I presented the Dahiya doctrine.
Genocide is not new nor special neither. Does that make it okay? molest is not new nor special. Does that make it okay?
Please go and read this thread from the beginning so you know what we are talking about and how we arrived at the present point before you came and started blowing some vacuous hot air. 'New or Special' my foot.
And of course you will not accept the reports of the UN or any NGOs that contradict your nasty, vile and evil stance. No authorities will do, no experts know as much as you. Only the ones that agree with you. You are a despicable man!!!!
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 1:19am On Jul 28|
I did not change the topic I responded to a post that was there before.
What is it with all these self acclaim Cristiens and there tendency to suffer from acute neurosis and psychological projections. You accuse people of changing topic while you are the one jumping from one issue to another. You say Israel hasn't expanded, then when shown a map of the territories you change to what is the names and the demographics. then you have the gall to say someone else is changing topic. Although to be fair to you I don't think that you are even aware that you are doing it. it's unconscious.
davidylan:I can't speak for him but I believe that his point is that you are complicit with Israel in your support and you claim to believe in Jesus.
actually the caustic bile is the glee with which you said this:
davidylan:And the way you've shown yourself to be full of hate and bile against islam even pursuing them to their own section. And now you're trying to hide that. Your reputation is documented all over this forum.
We all know that your clueless and uninformed jibe is more self projecting.
you made a claim that Israel did not expand more than one mile. you didn't even give the full coordinates. you said across only. The map was posted in response to that claim. You have not refuted the map. you only posted irrelevancies. If the map is inaccurate then tell us where it is inaccurate.
Pray tell, How do you know it's an arab map. Do the arabs have a special way of making maps. Or did they put their name on it. Okay here's a map I've just googled from a christian website http://christconquers.wordpress.com/2012/01/30/palestinian-land-loss-1946-2000/
Ah ha! and it's so hard for you to hide it. You nasty and vile hatred of arabs and islam in general.
Oh poor israelis. I'm so mean and I don't understand their plight. How dare I judge them as they wantonly perpetuate evil on a relatively defenseless people.
I am too lazy to read the thread... because frankly, there is nothing serious to read.Let me get this straight. You are too lazy to read the thread. Yet you know without reading that there is nothing serious to read. Well done!
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 12:47am On Jul 28|
Excuse my flabbergastment. I'll need you to point out the relevance of what you're saying. I posted that map in response to this, your claim that Israel hasn't grabbed land.
davidylan: I mean, how is it that in over 60 years of an "expansionist" mindset, the land mass that Israel controls has barely increased by more than a mile across?Meanwhile you've failed to address what Ben Gurion said.
Why is that? Why are you asking for names? Why are you trying to throw red herrings? You said that Israel didn't grab land and I showed you a map showing how the territory controlled has changed and you are shifting to asking for the names populations and demographics.
What is the relevance of any of this claptrap to the issue? Did Israel grab land or did it not? Did Ben gurion state that Israel was going to expand or did he not?
oya, bring your correct map let's see. we are not talking about the names of west bank or any arab sounding names. West bank doesn't sound arab either. Neither does Victoria Island sound like yoruba nor Anthony Village. Please address the issue on the table. Did Israel grab sovereign land from the Palestinians or not?
7. People need to read before posting maps they have no clue about.And people need to stick to the topic of the conversation and stop muddying the waters. Also people need to actually read a thread before jumping in to post any how. How did you put it? Oh yes.....
clueless, uninformed... yet posting away anyway.
Please go and get clued up as to what we are talking about.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 8:17pm On Jul 27|
Do you think that one is interested in any thing that Jesus says?
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 8:16pm On Jul 27|
By the way I didn't and I still don't have an opinion on the celebrating palestinians issue, as to whether it was true or not. I'm very aware of the power of media and propaganda. So I'm going to listen to as many versions as I come across and then by myself try to ascertain the likely Story.
Thank you for the Clueless, uninformed jibe. Reading it is still getting a version. Please do you have anything to say on the actual topic of this thread or are you only here to post fake 'christian' vitriol and caustic bile. Your glee at the demise of the palestinians is so sickeningly palpable.
Oh ... I forgot, you haven't even read the thread cos you are Lazy, but you can post.
|Religion / Re: Will God's Chosen People Do This ? ( Graphic ) by PastorAIO: 8:03pm On Jul 27|
I heard a different version of that sweets sharing story. They were given as bribes for the women to cheer in front of the camera. obviously for propaganda purposes.
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