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Religion / Re: Problems with Evolutionary Theory by PastorAIO: 2:12pm
donnffd:


First of all, this has nothing to do with the question i asked...

Secondly, you twisted the reason why einstein edited his equations and lied about the defrauding matter.
Both the special theory of relativity and the general theory of relativity have predicted accurately and are standards in physics, and even the blunder Einstein claimed he made wasnt actually a blunder, he was correct all along, the rate at which dark energy is expanded the universe is a factor of the cosmological constant whch Einstein taught was a mistake.

Get your stories straight(it had nothing to do with religion).

Don't feed the troll, man. Clear Road for JagaJaga.

1 Like

Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:28pm
pesty100:
Actualities is subjective to possibilities, if actualities exists then possibilities exist

But ... Do possibilities exist that have never manifested as Actualities?
Religion / Re: How Do You Know That Your Pastor Is Not A False Prophet? by PastorAIO: 10:27pm On Dec 03
I wonder why tb joshua took down the prophecy from his websites. What was the motivation?

If indeed he is not a scammer and is not embarrassed to be caught out then why did he take it down?


Or is he ashamed of his yahweh?


Imagine if there was a recount and Hillary won and they installed her instead. After all anything is possible with God. Or she might launch a coup d'etat and take over power. After all God works in mysterious ways.


If that tb Joshua guy believes he heard from God then he should trust his God and leave the prophecy on his website.

Unless he is just a lying murdering thief.
Religion / Re: T.B. Joshua Predicts Who Will Win US Presidential Election... See Details by PastorAIO: 7:09pm On Dec 03
PastorAIO:
Deuteronomy 18

22when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.


Deuteronomy 18

22when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 2:09pm On Dec 02
Thank you so much for this. You certainly cleared up some confusion about the various categories for me.

Do you think it could be argued that any christian that has any ambition with his life besides getting to heaven is actually in effect an existentialist? After all they say that the purpose of life is to worship God and to get to heaven, so to have any other purpose, i.e to build a hospital to save lives etc, is in fact a purpose that they've created for themselves hence they are existentialists.

If that works I'll remember that for next time a christian tries to question the validity of someone else's morality or purpose.


LightandDarkness:



Actually what I described is existentialism not existential nihilism which are different philosophical thoughts.

Existentialism is the belief that through a combination of awareness, free will, and personal responsibility, one can construct their own meaning within a world that intrinsically has none of its own. Existentialism states that existence precedes essence, which means that first individuals are independently acting and responsible, conscious beings ("existence"wink—rather than what labels, roles, stereotypes, definitions, or other preconceived categories the individuals fit ("essence"wink. The actual life of the individuals is what constitutes what could be called their "true essence" instead of there being an arbitrarily attributed essence others use to define them.

Nihilism on the other hand is first and foremost a philosophical doctrine that suggests the lack of belief in one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life. There are different types of nihilism such as moral nihilism which argues that morality does not exist and existential nihilism. Existential nihilism arguess that life and existence has no intrinsic value BUT that is pointless and futile to try and create a purpose.

An atheist can believe in existentialism or [b]some[/b]of its concepts and argue that while there may not be an intrinsic purpose and meaning to life we are free to create our own. An atheist can also believe in any of the schools of nihilism if they so wish. However being an atheist doesn't automatically mean you are an existential nihilist, a moral nihilist, an existentialist etc. You can infact be an existentialist and a Christian at the same time.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 11:07am On Dec 02
Still Sad!!

Auki:


All prophet s and messengers came with the same worship God.

And assuredly We have sent among every people a messenger (with the command): worship God…" (Quran 16:36)

Worship God is acknowledging God and doing what is right and avoiding all that wrong. He created you and He has the right to give you command or do you create yourself.

And He it is Who has created the heavens and the earth in six Days and His Throne was on the water, that He might try you, which of you is the best in deeds. But if you were to say to them: "You shall indeed be raised up after death," those who disbelieve would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious magic." [Noble Quran 11:7]

Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 11:06am On Dec 02
Geist:
How is that sad?

Is loneliness not sad? God was lonely so he created people that they should know and worship him.

Is it not sad that someone should feel unappreciated? God/Allah needed people to appreciate him so he created them to worship him.

3 Likes 1 Share

Religion / Re: Lets's Discuss African Tradition Religion by PastorAIO: 9:35am On Dec 02
hopefulLandlord:


the second part of my question was not anwered

Jews have Yahweh as the good god and Satan/Devil/Lucifer as the bad one

is there a bad deity in the Yoruba tradition, some kinda deity that's known for bad things?

Ajogun..

Elenini....

But not in opposition to Eledumare. You cannot compare Yahweh to the Yoruba Eledumare.

Yahweh receives sacrifices, Yahweh has temples, Yahweh has taboos, Yahweh has special places... So therefore if you try to fit Yahweh into a Yoruba scheme the best you can give him is a position as an orisha. And that is being generous.

1 Like

Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 9:30am On Dec 02
Auki:

And (tell them that) I have not created the invisible beings and men to any end other than that they may (know and) worship Me.Quran

[size=13pt] How sad! [/size]
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 9:19am On Dec 02
Deicide:

It is not a Contradiction "Man" choose not to Express this or Choose to Express it, it all about Choice! People can actually do the opposite of the mentioned...its all about choice therefor us..

Sorry bro. You are not making sense. And you still are not even attempting to answer my points of inquiry.

You said man creates meaning for himself.

Then you ran off a list of things that confer meaning to man's life. None of those things were created by man. That therefore is a contradiction in any system of logic that I'm aware of. Unless you have another logic system that you're using to reason.

I don't know what this mysterious 'this' that you're going on about is. Man choose to express 'this' or not express 'this'? Please what is 'this'?

How have you jumped to Choices? People can do the opposite of what 'mentioned'? I hope you are not losing your ability to think straight and articulate your thoughts. Abeg o, Na only simple questions I dey ask.

Are you suggesting that man no longer creates meaning as you initially said but rather Chooses to have meaning?

1 Like

Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 5:55pm On Dec 01
Deicide:

@bolded it was Created by who? Yahweh? This was one of the reason i didn't want to continue this convo with you.. You already have a pre conceived answer but yet you said you are willing to change your mind? You my friend Id not ready to change his mind it's rather you want to mock what you don't understand or just looking for argument..


Because of Yahweh you didn't want to continue convo with me. Haba! Of all the reasons I've ever read for copping out of a simple inquiry this has to be the heavy weight world champion.

It's funny what you have to say about 'preconceived answers'. There are certainly a lot of preconceptions flying about in this dialogue. But I guess the difference between me and you is that I realize that it can't be helped and so I make allowances for you.

As I said before and I still say again, I am willing and even keen to be convinced but you have to make a reasonable argument. Stating that Men create their own meaning in one post and then later saying "Love, happiness, beauty, joy, awe, wonder, imagination, sex, passion, creativity, accomplishment, etc.

Basically all this and more gives our life meaning
..."
.....

This is a blatant contradiction and suggests to me that you are somewhat out of your depth. I suspect that you haven't really thought about this subject matter long and hard.

I am not seeking to mock you my fellow nigerian, and only you can mock yourself by doing things like throwing a tantrum just because your have been asked some probing questions about pronouncements you make.



Didn't you see Where i Wrote "Naturally" or are you just blind because it's argument you want?


I saw where you wrote naturally. Did you see where I said that it was not of interest to me. ie it was not pertinent to my questioning. The part that was pertinent was where you said that Men create meaning for themselves.


I already explain to you how man create meaning for themself it's either you take it or leave it!

No am not going to explain further thank you..

Actually you have not explain at all how man creates meaning for himself. First you just stated it like a bland assertion. I then prompted you to buttress the assertion with examples and arguments. You failed.

In fact you more than failed. You responded by totally contradicting yourself. You said:



Love, happiness, beauty, joy, awe, wonder, imagination, sex, passion, creativity, accomplishment, etc.

Basically all this and more gives our life meaning...



This contradicts your initial assertion that Men create meaning for themselves as all these other sources of meaning that you've mentioned are not created by Men.


Like I said before, you are completely out of your depth and just a couple of questions have got you floundering and flailing about, and as is often the case, aggression is the next mode of behaviour once you feel insecure.

I've done nothing to make you respond to me aggressively. I haven't mocked and I haven't sought a pointless argument. All I've done is ask you a few questions that left you feeling insecure and threatened.

I suspect that your contributions are based mostly on emotions, possibly a negative emotional reaction to christianity. You've read a couple of books, formed a couple of half-baked notions from the books, and are now come to present your halfbaked position that you cannot even defend logically without resorting to fighting.

o, p.s. on the issue of preconceptions, I'm not a christian and I don't deal with all those perverse ideations that people make up. All I wanted from you was the answer to the questions I asked you.
I suppose you're quite new to Nairaland so you won't know me, and you won't know the substance of much of my contributions here. However that is no excuse for the level of preconceptions that you've allowed to becloud your mind.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 4:29pm On Dec 01
Hello OP, this is a very interesting thread that you've opened up here. May I ask you a few questions?

GrizzlyBear:

When one accepts the non-existence of God, he has also tacitly subscribed to the notion of the objective meaninglessness of human existence. Because if God does not exist, then human existence has no objective meaning. Objective meaning in this context signifies a universally all encompassing truth about the reason for our existence.

That is an interesting definition of Objective Meaning.

Wouldn't you say that the Big Bang Theory was an 'all encompassing truth about the reason for our existence.'?





Anyone who arrives at this philosophical realization, would definitely feel a painful sting of despair. Such understanding could engender a cascade of negative feelings that could prompt such a person to give up on life. Undoubtedly, the understanding of the objective meaninglessness of life and the futility of human existence, is the heaviest intellectual burden for man to shoulder.


If life lacks meaning (whatever that means) then so be it. However what is of great interest to me is Why Is The Lack Of Meaning Such A Bother?

Why should humans feel despair at the realisation of a lack of meaning? What is it about us, or in us, that so desperately needs to have Meaning.

And also further, How come there are so many atheists who realising what you've said still continue to live happy lives without a hint of despair?
and also, How come their are many pious Religionists who despite their beliefs actually suffer from depression and feelings of Meaninglessness?

These facts fly in the face of all you've said in the OP.

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Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 4:09pm On Dec 01
Deicide:

Love, happiness, beauty, joy, awe, wonder, imagination, sex, passion, creativity, accomplishment, etc.

Basically all this and more gives our life meaning...

Now if we taliking about naturally what is life about? It's really simple..

Eat-survive-procrate(reproduction)-sleep

Sp you believe that humans give their lives meaning for themselves because of Love, happiness, beauty, joy, awe, wonder, imagination, sex, passion, creativity, accomplishment, etc.

Yet none of these things are created by man himself, so I cannot really agree.

I get that you believe that life is just eat survive procreate sleep etc. That is not of interest to me, what is of interest is your claim that Men create Meaning for themselves.

I don't see how having 'love, happiness, beauty etc' contributes to a human creating his own meaning. Please can you explain further.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 11:25am On Dec 01
Deicide:

and who said i was trying to convince you? see this one o...

That's not the issue. Me, personally, I am willing to be convinced. I would love to be convinced. I want to be convinced.

Whatever your reasons for saying what you said, whether to convince anyone or not, I would like to be convinced by what you said and if you could just back up and buttress what you've said with facts and reasons you would be helping me a great deal.

Could you be kind enough to explain Why you said the things you said, and could you provide any examples. Thank you in advance.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 6:26pm On Nov 30
Deicide:

human beings do it Everytime the only difference is that Theist eg Christians tend to deny it after all their meaning comes from God... denial!

Repeating what you said won't do anything to convince me. I asked Why you think so, and if you have any examples of such a thing happening.

I'm still willing to be convinced.
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 3:15pm On Nov 29
Deicide:
I think we give our life it's own meaning

Why do you think so? Do you know anyone that successfully gave his own life it's own meaning. Or was his meaning discovered?
Religion / Re: The Meaninglessness Of Human Existence And The Immortality Of Religion. by PastorAIO: 1:30pm On Nov 29
GrizzlyBear:
Intellectual honesty demands that we be sincere in all our contemplation and discussions about ourselves and our world, despite the perceived bleakness or harshness of the truth. It demands that we present a version of this truth, that is unbiased and unadulterated.
....


....

....

For this reason, religion will always exist and continue to persist. Despite the overwhelming avalanche of tenable arguments that will be put forward against it, despite the flaws and glaring contradictions that would be pointed, despite the overt negative effects that is observable in our society, religion will always have subscribers. People find it hard to let go of something that comforts them and makes them happy, and they will aggressively defend it against anything that tries to take it away from them, even reason.


despite the perceived bleakness or harshness of the truth. It demands that we present a version of this truth, that is unbiased and unadulterated.

I want to suggest first that the 'perceived bleakness and harshness of the "truth"' is just as much subjective as any other perception of the "truth" a person may have had.

We regard the universe from many different perspectives. Each perspective will give us a slightly (or not so slightly) different picture.

A man who is depressed (yes depression is just a physiological state which has profound effects on our perceptions) will see a meaningless universe. That meaninglessness that he perceives is not objectively out there but is projected out onto the world from the 'diseased' mind of the depressed person.

A man who is Enthused about life will look out and see a universe full of Meaning. This Meaningful universe thus perceived is equally just a projection from the robust mind of the Enthused person.


The person that does not want to die is merely responding to an instinct in him. His survival instinct.

On the other hand there are people who are suicidal. It follows that suicidal people have lost that survival instinct, or the survival instinct in them has abated for some reason or the other. The reason could be purely physiological. Or it could be a reaction to a series of unfortunate events in a person's life.

Perhaps it's the level of Serotonin in the bloodstream that creates the effect whereby a person lives a meaningful life. Or perhaps it's something else. However there is a correlation between depression and the level of Serotonin in a person's bloodstream.

What the OP is doing is taking a viewpoint that is seen by such folks as are admittedly diseased psychologically and presenting that as the real objective reality. I beg to differ. I believe that it is just as jaundiced as the perspective of the Enthused person.
In other words, it's just another perspective.


Another thing that I have against OP is the presumption that religion necessarily gives meaning as an opiate against a meaningless truth.

Yet there are many religious people who become depressed, even suicidal. Piety does not cover up an sense of meaninglessness for them.

And yet again, there are many people without religion who are so full of enthusiasm for life and all of it's ridiculous follies. They live lives full of meaning.

How is this possible?


I believe that Meaning, or the quest for meaning, is something beyond mental calculations and little 'l' logic.


What gives meaning is a strong brew!!!

1 Like

Religion / Re: From Pastor To Atheist: Why I Will Never Be A Christian Again by PastorAIO: 12:40pm On Nov 23
You are missing the point. Nobody is arguing about whether there is an afterlife or not. Paul in that passage is arguing that there has to be an afterlife (a resurrection of the dead) if christianity is to be valid.

That doesn't even come into this argument because it is already assumed that there is a resurrection of the dead.

The point is who will we meet in the after life. Is it Osiris? Is it Allah? Is it Jesus? Or is it an atheist's nothing?

Considering the endless possibilities, Pascal's wager (which Dopeman is espousing) is not a reasonable approach to take.




uvalued:

13  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:
 14  And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
 15  Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
 16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
 17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
 18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
 19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
 20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
uvalued:


13  But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

 14  And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

 15  Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

 16  For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

 17  And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 18  Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

 19  If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 20  But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

1 Like

Religion / Re: From Pastor To Atheist: Why I Will Never Be A Christian Again by PastorAIO: 10:11am On Nov 23
dopedude:


You still don't get my point. what I'm saying is what if there is no heaven or Hell, then what have I lost here on earth serving Christ.
and what if eventually there is heaven and Hell what do you think you have lost.

You are the one that is not getting the point. You are acting on the false premise that there are only 2 possibilities. There is either the Christian afterlife or the Atheist afterlife. Well in actual fact there are as many possible afterlifes as there are human ideas of an afterlife. There is the Hindu afterlife. There is the Muslim afterlife. There is the Ancient greek after life etc etc etc.


You want to suggest that a christian would be okay if he was wrong, but that is not true because if he meets Allah in the afterlife then he is going to roast. I hope you get it now.

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Religion / Re: Problems with Evolutionary Theory by PastorAIO: 1:56pm On Nov 20
Kalatium:


conclusion : I wonder why someone will then say faith blinds Christians to deny the evolution. Being religious doesn't make one unscientific.

Why then do you think that most christians on this forum and further afield in the world are so opposed to Evolution and outright deny it?


That is the only reason I can imagine that people say that faith blinds christians to evolution, the evident fact that many of them are opposed to it.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Problems with Evolutionary Theory by PastorAIO: 1:53pm On Nov 20
Kalatium:
For a claim that is so obviously false, it gets repeated surprisingly often. Evolution does not require a God, but it does not rule one out either. In that respect, it is no different from almost all other fields of interest. Evolution is no more atheistic than biochemistry, farming, engineering, plumbing, art, law, and so forth.


The kind of God that Darwin's theory of Evolution by natural selection does not rule out would be a deist god. Not the kind of God that we read about in the bible.

The reason's that Darwin gave for his increasing atheism was not based on his theory. Rather it was based on the Absurd levels of suffering found in nature, for instance insects whose life cycles depends on laying eggs in the eyes of infants which then eat out the eye as larvae until they mature, causing much unbearable suffering to the host. How can that be the natural life cycle of a specie created by a supposedly loving God?

Darwin's theory would very much allow for a Deist God or a heartless cruel monster of a God.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Problems with Evolutionary Theory by PastorAIO: 1:47pm On Nov 20
Kalatium:

OK it does not amount to discrediting Evolution. Am only questioning it because we may be misled today
Kalatium:

I didn't dismiss evolution totally, I said some part of evolution are not consistent.
Yea...so part of the Bible are inconsistent.
But I didn't remember saying evolution to be discarded, so why will I discard religious beliefs
Am just trying to question evolution
It is untrue for anyone to claim that no true scientist reject evolution
The following are list of those who accept creation and reject evolution.


I think I may be understanding you now. I'm not sure.

Maybe you mean that you don't believe in Darwin's theory of Evolution By Natural Selection, as opposed to an outright rejection of evolution as a phenomenon. If this were the case then I might even be in total agreement with you.

If however you are talking about a rejection of evolution as a whole then you are contradicting yourself when you on the one hand claim that you are only saying "some parts are inconsistent" and then on the other hand put forward arguments based on scientists who "reject evolution".

1 Like

Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 6:00pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


Clearly, its the self acclaimed english teacher who is bringing up lenghty explanations to cover his burnt ass here.

Nothing else!

It is not too late. You still have a chance to present a valid perspective on the issues being discussed, the variety of after death experiences. Otherwise you will remain a satan.

1 Like

Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:54pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


"Sow contention"......
Yeah right.
Coming from the selective sarcasm detector.

U r only talking more to hide your goof above.
Sorry, its not working!

Nothing to do with Sarcasm detector mister man. You entered this thread with nothing of value just nastiness and sarcastic bitching, and then when exposed instead of you to just crawl away you are dragging it.

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Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:52pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


Ok, i can see the sentence u once ignored is now your beacon of attraction,

Ride on. Play the dumb.

You are the one that wants to make a song and dance out of the last sentence. It is now burning you.
Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:47pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


"funny" "inevented" indeed.
Enough of the stories abeg.
A goof is best buried by silence.

Okay, you don't think it is invented. You really believe that some people die and staff bus comes to pick them up. I doff my hat for you.
Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:46pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


U want to give the benefit of doubt and assume he was sarcastic, yet u want me to counter his "points". Yeah right, again.

Guy, just shift.
Ur wobbling is becoming poignant.

If you can't counter then you need to find somewhere to just sit down and let those that want to discuss discuss. Quit jumping on threads with your contentious attitudes to life. You have no peace, mister man. And you want to spread your lack of peace to everybody.

If you have nothing to contribute you don't have to jump on a thread and sow contention.

1 Like

Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:37pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


"Only him can tell"
grin yeah right.
I thought u were elaborating his point some minutes ago. Mschewww.

Meanwhile,
Your sarcasm detector only works when it got to me.
Am i surprised?

Certainly not.
Only those who dont know the attitude of atheists on NL would be...

So were you being sarcastic or not?

And was your response made up of only your nasty sarcastic attitude or did you actually make any counter points?

The answer is: You made no points to counter him but just resorted to sarcasm.


Let us even give you the benefit of the doubt and say that the guy was sarcastic. At least he made clear and valid points before dropping his last line. Points that you were too pathetic to even address.

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Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:34pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


Thank u for the unsolicited tutorial.
The fact u omitted the last sentence in ur lecture, is enough evidence for me to diagnose u.

Thanks.

You do realise that the last sentence, though quite funny, is just yet another variety of after death experience. Albeit it one probably invented by the imagination of Elchappo.

1 Like

Religion / Re: What I Saw When I Died by PastorAIO: 5:32pm On Nov 19
felixomor:


Thank u for the unsolicited tutorial.
The fact u omitted the last sentence in ur lecture, is enough evidence for me to diagnose u.

Thanks.

How did I omit the last sentence. You're making things up now. O ma se.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Problems with Evolutionary Theory by PastorAIO: 5:30pm On Nov 19
Kalatium:

From evolution to Biblical discrepancies to Johannine Comma

Come on, you're not that daft. Surely your mind can encompass the range.

Or maybe it can't, and that's why you cannot see your bigotry where in one case you use the very same argument to dismiss Evolution yet fail to apply it in the case of your religious beliefs.

I cannot help you if your mental capacity is simply not vast enough.

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