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Religion / Re: What Is A God? by PastorAIO: 8:02pm

That leaves God as nothing but a figment of our limited imaginations.

To make it a product of any sort from our imaginations is to give too much credit to his postulation. Such a 'God' is UNimaginable even. He is merely assigning a term to the unknown and unknowable. However we don't even know how much unimaginable and unknowable stuff is out there. Is it all God? Or is God only a part of what is unimaginable and unknowable? What else can be found beyond our reality and beyond our minds?

A big epistemological problem indeed, Kay17.
Religion / Re: Spirituality After(/outside) Religion by PastorAIO: 6:59pm

Wat is religious development?
Practising more of the dogmas of a religion Or better understanding of a religion??

The continued practise of certain disciplines in order to bring about a state of being connected to the world and to oneself.

The idea of practising a dogma is oxymoronic. A dogma is accepted intellectually or rejected. A dogma isn't practised.

Religious development is not better understanding of a religion. Maybe that would be sociology or anthropology.


And you can become more spiritual as humans aren't spiritual beings we are physical beings trying to connect with our spiritual self (which isn't human), this which you probably can't fully achieve in one life time

our humanity is a challenge, to overcome several hurdles to building up a better spiritual self

Excuse me, what were you saying about Dogma?

We are not spiritual beings but we have a spiritual self?? (which isn't human? explain this to me, please.)

It take it that you believe your physical self (your body) is the only real you.

Also of interest.... Why do you think you cannot connect with your spiritual self which is not you in one lifetime?

Where I think I agree with you but we are using different approaches is where you seem to be saying that physical and spiritual need to be connected. The difference is that you are adamant that the spiritual part is not the self, but only the physical part. At least you agree that there are parts and that those parts are fractured and need to be reconnected.

The question then is ... what are the methods by which we can effect this reconnection of the parts? That Methodology is what I call Religious practice. You can practice it within a cult or not.
Of course you can grow spiritually just as you can grow physically, but to suggest that humans are not spiritual beings, and to do so dogmatically without back up, contradicts everything that I hold to be true and right.
Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 3:52pm On Oct 21
Pardon my asking, PastorAIO but, are you really a pastor?
Like Pastor-Pastor?
Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 5:20pm On Oct 20

You need to relax and read PastorAio's post again, because he was laying the two possible meanings Jesus' man saving Gospel is about.

Thank you Kay. Though I doubt he'll read it with a calm mind. But if he does, hopefully, I hope he also notes the very last sentence where I said that Jesus in the gospels taught neither of the two possible meanings.
Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 2:17pm On Oct 20

But seriously pastor If God truly loved the world that he gave his only begotten son,has that solved any problem as we see around us?

But seriously Dapo, if you truly love this discussion that you've giving your energy and time to post, has that solved the problem of not actually reading and grasping what I've said.
Religion / Re: What Is A God? by PastorAIO: 12:00pm On Oct 20
Is God a god?
Religion / Re: Spirituality After(/outside) Religion by PastorAIO: 11:30am On Oct 20
Thanks for the mention. Now I'm here, my difficulty with contributing lies in understanding what the terms Spirituality and Religion mean to the OP. I consider myself to be religious. Very religious.

But then I understand religion as a practice undertaken to reconnect oneself to Spirit, and to one's environment. So for me Spiritual development is very much a part of religion.

By spirituality I just believe that we are already spiritual beings and so someone cannot 'become more spiritual' any more than someone can become more human.

I suspect that what the OP is resisting against is the Practice of Religion within a CULT. There are pros and cons to practicing religion within a cult. This cult as a religious organisation has plenty of deleterious effects on religious development.
Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 11:01am On Oct 20

Dude, you point is you mean, God the creator of a perfect being didn't see it fit to remove the sinful nature of his creation that he decided "prior to" or after creation to sacrifice His only begotten son for the sins of the creation He failed to remove the sinful nature of?...that is VERY logical, don't you think?

The more you try to dance your way around the truth, the more you drown in your own confusion...believe it or not, it is an instrument of oppression and a means to an economic end...Oyedepo, TBJ en co my reference, private jet? shocked lipsrsealed

You seem confused. The basis of my points are in the OP at its question. Nothing I said there was baseless. Nothing that you've written actually applies to my post. I think you might be addressing something else entirely. Maybe a gripe you have had with christianity long before you even read my post. Anyway, please, I'd appreciate it if next time you actually read my post and made sure you understood it before you responded to it. Thanks in advance.
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:16pm On Oct 18
too bad.

I'll take a look.

"too bad"? I hope you were answered satisfactorily from the post I referred you too. In that thread there are many questions asked of me, and as I had plenty more time to spend on Nairaland in those days I made an as-comprehensive-as-I-could answer. Since then I've been asked many questions that I've already answered quite comprehensively on other threads. It is a lot easier for me to refer the querent to those previous thread than to spell out my whole position over and over again. If there are questions left then I'll be happy to answer further.

Paix et amour.
Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 2:09pm On Oct 18

Tell me Dear, what exactly have you been told.

Pardon my asking, there're different versions actually.


I would like to know the different version


May I present two different 'versions' that are often conflated?

1) Jesus came to save us from our Sinful Nature

2) Jesus came to save us from the consequences of our Sinful acts

The idea is that we are not Sinners because we have Sinned, but rather we Sin because we are sinners.

If it is our Sinful nature that we to be saved from and we become a new kind of creature then Jesus' salvation project has failed in the case of the greater majority of Christians. They all still have their extremely sinful nature and the subsequent sinful acts abound.

If it is the consequences of our Sins that he has come to save us from, and those consequences culminate in our final destination in the afterlife, then we cannot judge until such a time whether he has failed or not. If there are consequences of sin before the final day of reckoning and we have been saved from those then Christians should be living better lives than non christians and a christian thief that gets caught will not suffer any consequences, neither will the christian womanizer that catches venereal disease will be cured of his disease.
If the particular consequence that we are saved from is not physical but spiritual christians will continue to suffer the physical consequences of their sins but whether the 'other' intangible consequences are escaped we can not know because we do not experience them .

There are other consequences of these beliefs. If one believes that his sins are forgiven despite his continuing to sin this will only encourage most people to sin further. This teaching encourages moral corruption. This, i believe, is why Nigerians are so morally corrupt, what was already a bad situation was made exponentially worse by these false 'christian' teachings. Note: Jesus did not teach any of these himself.


Religion / Re: QUESTION: Why Isn't Jesus Saving Our World by PastorAIO: 1:53pm On Oct 18
I can only answer you as a Christian. And our answer is that He has. If "to save" means[b] "to secure from danger of one sort or another"[/b] then we have been saved already.

Given that, I am curious what it is you were told through religion that is NOT the way this world will be saved.

hello Ihedinobi, it's been a while ...

please what exactly is the danger(s) that you have been secured from?
Religion / Belief In Free Will Not Threatened By Neuroscience by PastorAIO: 3:26pm On Oct 15

A key finding from neuroscience research over the last few decades is that non-conscious preparatory brain activity appears to precede the subjective feeling of making a decision. Some neuroscientists, like Sam Harris, have argued that this shows our sense of free will is an illusion, and that lay people would realize this too if they were given a vivid demonstration of the implications of the science (see below). Books have even started to appear with titles like My Brain Made Me Do It: The Rise of Neuroscience and the Threat to Moral Responsibility by Eliezer J. Sternberg.

However, in a new paper, Eddy Nahmias, Jason Shepard and Shane Reuter counter such claims.
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:44pm On Oct 03
pesty100: so skepticism seems to be the rational choice?

Not necessarily the rational choice. But the more honest choice, certainly.

1 Like

Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:43pm On Oct 03

i remember you brought this passage up in our discussion some time ago.

Now am a bit interested... How exactly do you interprete that passage especially in the light that the said death only occured in time about 2000yrs ago?

Please can I refer you to this post for further clarification:
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:50pm On Oct 03
Then there is the notion that God created all the possibilities and every possible universe exists in parallel to themselves. This raises ontological questions of when we can say something exists or not. Can possibilities be said to exist? In what sense? How do we compare their existence to the existence of Actualities.
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:44pm On Oct 03
hifaif post=/post/26822140:

The thing with you Christians is that you never want to humble yourselves by saying you don't really understand somethings.
You prefer to head into an argument even though you know you can never make any sense of it.

You said God planned everything right from the beginning and yet said he does not restrict you from following any path. If he has planned that you join BH or ISIS, would the path you decide to take 'freely' not have to eventually conform with God's plans?

If your actions can't exist outside God's plans, then you are not exercise free will. You are just working according to the dictates of God which means that as somebody once said 'you are nothing but a pencil in the hand of God'

Herein lies the heart of the issue. There is a need, a desperate need, to assume a position of absolute knowledge. Instead of honestly trying to attain the position or at least admitting that it is not possible, we resort instead to sleight of hands and dodgy arguments to support an untenable position.

I've even heard arguments trying to discredit science by saying that scientists are always coming up with new theories and changing their position. Whereas religionists always maintain their position. I don't know how that, the fact that a position is amenable to changing when facts present themselves, makes something less true. If anything it should make it's position stronger than the position that does not consider new facts.

It is simply a matter of intellectual honesty and integrity. God is not something that we can know or grasp. We can try, but if you think that you've pinned God down then you'll be setting yourself up for a shock. Repeated shocks.

There are two parts to this Free Will issue. The Free part, and the Will part.

what do we mean by Free? Are the choices God makes truly free, or are they bound to by his character. ie. are there things that God will typically do and things that he wouldn't do?

Anybody that knows me would tell you that if you were to put chocolate down on one plate, and marzipan on another and tell me to choose one, if they truly know me they will know that I am more likely to choose the marzipan. Knowledge leads to prognosis. If you know me you'll be able to predict my behaviour.

Does God have Character? Likes, dislikes, behavioural patterns, features? If so then his/her choices would be bound to his/her character. that is not totally free. There are things therefore that God just wouldn't/couldn't do.

Then there is the question of who created God's features and characteristics. God himself? ie Self creating. Then what informed his decisions to create himself the way he did? You see how these questions are taking us beyond the levels that our intellect can reach. The honest answer to these questions is 'I don't know'. I don't know why it is so hard for my christian brethren to say these three little words.

Then there is the Will part? If God's Will is absolute then can there by any other Wills in the universe? An absolute Will cannot be thwarted in anyway. Whatever happens must be in accord with this absolute will. If there are other wills, i.e. human will, then that will must necessarily be impotent since the will of God is absolute. Nothing can happen other than what God wills.

However if Human will is not impotent, then God's will cannot be absolute.

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Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 12:12pm On Oct 03

that is a powerful question. One that carrys with it a lot of sematics.

I believe God has choices, yes! He could chose whether to create or not to create. I see another question coming.

this thread is getting interesting now.

1 Like

Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 5:05pm On Sep 30

You ve never shown any prove that he didnt make a retraction. You just made a statement that you want me to believe by faith. Sorry. case closed till you tender your evidence.

Please, JMAN05, does a contradictory pair of lists mean there is no apostolic succession.
Religion / Re: What Is Existentialism? by PastorAIO: 2:38pm On Sep 29

Can you give instances where I have been a culprit?

I could if I had the time and energy. I don't have the time or energy for that. those who know you know what you're like.

1 Like

Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 2:33pm On Sep 29

Compare the Alzog's Handbuch der Kirchengeschichte (9th ed. 1872) with the Gerarchia Cattolica listing. it is glaring that there is a disharmony.

Statements of church writers are entirely irreconcilable, and it is impossible to establish with any degree of certainty the order in which they follow each other, yrs of accession, and even yrs of death.

You are a very wicked man!! See as you give me work. I've trawled the internet looking for the lists. I read references to the book but I've only found one list. That of the Alzog's handbuch whatever. I'll paste it below. I wanted to compare the lists by putting them parallel to each other. Anyway, no wahala. (since you have been reluctant to produce the lists yourself would that suggest that you yourself haven't compared the lists but rather you just read an accusation on some website and swallowed it hook line and sinker? That is not an issue anyway, just a thought that occurred to me.)

I could only find one list but I found other things about the books. First this:

The Roman "Gerarchia Cattolica", not an authoritative work, which prior to 1906 contained a chronological list of the popes, designated Alexander V as the 211th pope, succeeding Gregory XII, resigned.
From here:

How do you compare an authoritative work to a non authoritative work and then claim something dubious when they don't tally?

Then I found this:
Owing, chiefly, to the fact that during what is called the Great Schism of the West, there were sometimes several claimants to the Holy See, only one of whom could be the lawful successor of St. Peter, authorities differ concerning the correct list of the Popes. Some reckon that Pius XI is the two hundred and sixty-first successor of St. Peter. –Joseph Deharbe, S.J., A Complete Catechism of the Catholic Religion, Sixth American Edition, © 1912/1919/1924 Scwartz, Kirwin & Fauss, p. 68; Book has Nihil Obstat of Very Rev. Edmund T. Shanahan, D.D., Catholic University of America; and Imprimitur of John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
from here:

This suggests that the discrepancies occurred at much later dates that what we are talking about. We are talking about the early church, especially about the immediate successors to Peter.

But having said all that, That is not really the part of this discussion that interests me.

Please, ejor, Is it the matter of discrepancies in the lists that is the basis of your rejection of catholicism and the Apostolic succession? Please explain to me why a discrepancies must necessarily mean that the whole issue is false and must be discarded. thank you.

The following is the lists of popes that I found online from the Alzog Handbuch:

1. St. Peter, M... Bethsaida in Galilee 42-67

2. St. Linus, M... Volterra...   67-78

3. St. Cletus, M... Rome... 78-90

4. St. Clement I, M… Rome… 90-100

5. St. Anacletus, M…Athens… 100-112

6. St. Evaristus, M… Syria…112-121

7. St. Alexander I, M… Rome… 121-132

8. St. Sixtus I. M… Rome… 132-142

9. St. Telesphorus, M… Greece… 142-154

10. St. lyginlus, M… Greece… 154-158

11. St. Pius I, M… Aquileja … 158-167

12. St. Anicetus, M… Syria… 167-175

13. St. Soterus, M…Campania… 175-182

14. St. Eleutherius, M… Epirus… 182-193

15. St. Victor I, M… Africa… 193-203

16. St. Zephyrinns, M… Rome… 203-220

17. St. Calixtus I, M… Rome… 221-227

18. St. Urban I, M… Rome… 227-233

19. St. Pontianus, M… Rome… 233-238

20. St. Anterus, M… Greece…238-239

21. St. Fabian, M… Rome… 240-253

22. St. Cornelius, M… Rome… 254-255 [Novatian, first antipope.]

23. St. Lucius I, M… Rome… 255-257

24. St. Stephen I, M… Rome… 257-260

25. St. Sixtus II, M… Athens… 260-261

26. St. Dionysius… Italy… 261-272

27. St. Felix I. M… Rome… 272-275

28. St. Eltychianus… Tuscany… 225-283

29. St. Caius, M… Dalmatia… 283-296

30. St. Marcellinus, M… Rome… 296-304

31. St. Miarcellus I, M… Rome…304-309

32. St. Esebius… Calabria… 309-311

33. St. Melchiades…. Africa… 311-314

34. St. Sylvester… Rome… 314-337

35. St. Malrcus… Rome… 337-340

36. St. Jillius I… Rome… 341-352

37. St. Liberius… Rome… 352-363

38. St. Felix II… Rome… 363-365

39. St. Darnass... Spain... 366-384 [Ursicinus, antipope.]

40. St. Siricius... Rome... 384-398

41. St. Anastasius... Rome… 399-402

42. St. Innocet I... Albano... 402-417

43. St. Zosim... Greece... 417-418

44. St. Boniface I... Rome... 418-423

45. St. Celestine I... Campania... 423-432

46. St. Sixts III... Rome... 432-440

47. St. Leo I, the Great... Tuscany... 440-461

48. St. Hilary... Cagilari... 461-468

49. St. Simplicius... Tivoli... 468483

50. St. Felix II... Rome... 483492

51. St. Gelasius I... Africa... 492-496

52. St Anastasius II... Rome... 496-498

53. St. Symnachus... Rome... 498-514

54. St. Hormisdas... Frosinone... 514-523

55. St. John I, M... Tuscany... 523-526

56. St. Felix IV... Benevet... 526-530

57. Boniface II... Rome...       530-532

58. John II... Rome... 532-535

59. St. Agapetus I... Rome... 535-536

60. St. Sylverius, M... Frosinone... 536-538

61. Vigilius... Rome... 538-555

62. Pelagius I... Rome... 555-560

63. John III... Rome... 560-573

64. Benedict I... Rome... 574-578

65. Pelagius II... Rome... 578-590

66. St. Gregory I, the Great. Rome... 50-604

67. Sabiniaus... Volterra... 604-606

68. Boniface III... Rome... 607-607

69. St. Boniface IV... The Marches... 608-615

70. St. Adeodatus I... Rome... 615-619

71. Boniface V... Naples... 619-625

72. Honorins I... Campania... 625-638

73. Severinus... Rome... 640-640

74. John IV... Dalmatia... 640-642

75. Theodorus I... Greece... 642-649

76. St. Martin, M... Todi... 649-655

77. St. Engenius I... Rome... 655-656

78. St. Vitalianus... Segi... 657-672

79. Adeodatus II... Rome... 672-676

80. Donus I... Rome... 676-678

81. St. Agathon... Greece... 678-682

82. St. Leo II... Sicily... 682-683

83. St. Benedict II... Rome... 684-685

84. John V... Antiochia... 685-686

85. Conon... Thrace... 686-687

86. St. Sergis I... ?... 687-701

87. John VI... Greece... 701-705

88. John VII... Greece... 705-707

89. Sisinnius... Syria... 708-708

90. Constantine... Syria... 708-715

91. St. Gregory II... Rome... 715-731

92. St. Gregory III... Syria... 731-741

93. St. Zachary... Greece... 741-752

94. St. Stephen II... Rome... 752-752

95. Stephen III... Rome... 752-757

96. St. Paul I... Rome... 757-767

97. Stephen IV... Syracuse... 768-771

98. Adrian I... Rome... 771-795

99. St. Leo III... Rome ... 795-816

100. Stephen V... Rome... 816-817

101. St. Paschal I... Rome... 817-824

102. Eugenius II... Rome... 824-827

103. Valentiuns... Rome... 827-827

104. Gregory IV... Rome... 827-844

105. Sergius II... Rome... 844-847

106. St. Leo IV... Rome... 847-855 [Fabulous antipope Joan.]

107. Benedict III... Rome... 855-858

108. St. Nicholas I, the Great… Rome... 858-867

109. Adrian II... Rome... 867-872

110. John VIII... Rome... 872-882

111. Marinus I... Gallese...     882-884

112. Adrian III... Rome... 884-885

113. Stephen VI... Rome... 885-891

114. Formosus... Ostia... 891-896 [Sergius, antipope.]

115. Boniface VI... Rome... 896-96

116. Stephen VII... Rome... 897-898

117. Romanus... Gallese... 898-898

118. Theodorus II... Gallese...  898-898

119. John IX... Tivoli... 898-900

120. Benedict IV... Rome... 900-903

121. Leo V... Ardea... 903-903

122. Christopher... Rome... 903-904

123. Sergius III... Rome... 904-911

124. Anastasius III... Rome... 911-913

125. Lando... Sabine... 913-914

126. John X... Ravenna... 915-928

127. Leo VI... Rome... 928-929

128. Stephen VIII... Rome... 929-931

129. John XI... Rome... 931-936

130. Leo VII... Rome... 936-939

131. Stephen IX... Rome... 939-942

132. Marinus II... Rome... 943-946

133. Agapetus II... Rome... 946-956

134. John XI*... Rome... 956-964 (Octavian Conti.) [Leo 8:antipope.]

135. Benedict V... Rome... 964-965

136. John XIII... Rome... 96S-972 (Bishop John of Ravenna.)

137. Benedict VI... Rome... 972-973

138. Donus II... Rome... 973-975

139. Benedict VII... Rome ... 975-984 (Conti, bishop of Sutri.)

140. John XIV... Pavia... 984-985 (Peter, bishop of Pavia.)

141. Boniface VII... ?...        985-985 (Cardinal Boniface Franco.)

142. John XV... Rome... 985-996

143. John XVI... ... 996-996

144. Gregory V... Germany... 996-999 (Bruno, court chaplain of the emperor.)

145. John XVI... ?... 999-999

146. Sylvester II... France... 999-1003 (Gerbert.) * The first pope who changed his name on ascending the papal throne.

147. John XVIII... Rome... 1003-1003

148. John XIX... Rome... 1003-1009

149. Sergius IV... Rome... 1009-1012

150. Benedict VIII... Rome... 1012-1024 (Conti.)

151. John XX... Rome... 1024-1033 (Conti, a brother of the preceding.)

152. Benedict IX ... Rome... 1033-1044 (Theophylact, nephew of the two preceding.) [Sylvester, antipope.]

153. Gregory VI... Rome... 1044-1046 (Archpriest John Gratianus.)

154. Clement II... Germany... 1046-1048 (Bishop Suidger of Bamlberg.)

155. Damasus II... Germany... 1048-1048 (Bishop Pappo of Brixen.)

156. St. Leo IX... Germany... 1049-1055 (Bishop Bruno of Toul.)

157. Victor II... Germany... 1055-1057 (Bishop Gebhard of Eichstidt.)

158. Stephen X... Germany... 1057-1058 (Abbot Frederick of Montecassino.)

159. Benedict X... .?... 1058-1059 (John Mincius Conti, bishop of Velletri.)

160. Nicholas II... France... 1059-1061 (Bishop Gerard of Florence.)

161. Alexander II... Milan... 1061-1073 (Anselm Badagio, bishop of Lucca.)

162. St. Gregory VII... Soana... 1073-1085 (Cardinal Hildebrand.) [Clement III, antipope.]

163. Victor III... Benevent... 1087-1087 (Desiderius, duke of Capua, abbot of Montecassino.)

164. Urban II... France... 1088-1099 (Otto de Lagers, cardinal-bishop of Ostia.)

165. Paschal II... Bieda... 1099-1118 (Cardinal Rainer.) [Albert and Theodoric, antipopes.]

166. Gelasius II... Gaeta... 1... 1118-1119 (Cardinal Johannes Cajetani.)

167. Calixtus II... France...1119-1124 (Guido, count of Burgundy, archbishop of Vienne.)

168. Honorius II... Bologna... 1124-1130 (Lambert, cardinal-bishop of Ostia.)

169. Innocent I... Rome... 1130-1143 (Cardinal Glegory Papy.) [Anacletus, antipope.]

170. Celestine II... Citta di Castello... 1143-1144

171. Lucius II... Bologna... 1144-1145 (Cacciauemici)

172. B. Eugenius III... Montemagno... 1145-1153 (Bernardus, abbot at Rome.)

173. Anastasius IV... Rome... 1153-1154

174. Adrian IV... England... 1154-1159

175. Alexander III... Siena... 1159-1181 (Roland Bandinelli.) [Victor, Paschal, and Callixtus, antipopes.]

176. Lncius III... Lucca... 1181-1185

177. Urban III... Milan... 1185-1187 (Bishop Humbert of Milan.)

178. Gregory VII... Beneventum... 1187-1187

179. Clemelnt III... Rome... 1187-1191

180. Celestinie III... Rome... 1191-1198

181. Innocent III... Anagni. ... .1198-1216 (Cardinal Conti.)

182. Honorius III... Rome... 1216-1227 (Savelli.)

183. Gregoury IX... An agni... 1227-1241 (Conti.)

184. Celestine IV... Milan... 1241-1241 (Castislione.)

185. Innocent IV... Genoa... 1243-1254 (Fieschi.)

186. Alexander IV... Anagni... .1254-1261 (Conti.)

187. Urban IV... France... 1261-1264 (Jacob Pantalean, patriarch of Jerusalem.)

188. Clement IV... France... 1265-1269 (Guido Fulcodi.)

189. B. Gregory X... Piacenza... 1271-1276 (Theobald Visconti, archdeacon at Liuge.)

190. Innocent V... ... Savoy... 1276-1276 (Peter de Tarantaise.)

191. Adrian V... Genoa... 1276-1276 (Fieschi.)

192. John XXI... Portugal... 1276-1277 (Peter Julian, bishop of Tusculum.)

193. Nicholas III... Rome... 1277-1280 (Cardinal John Cajetan Orfini.)

194. Martin IV... France... 1281-1285 (Simon de Brie.)

195. Honorius IV... Rome... 1285-1287 (Savelli.)

196. Nicholas IV... A... Ascoli... .1288-1292 (Cardinal Jerome, bishop of Tusculum.)

197. St. Celestine V... Isenia... .1294-1294 (Peter, an eremite.)

198. Boniface VIII... Anagni... 1294-1303 (Benedict Cajetan.)

199. B. Benedict XI... Treviso... 1303-1304 (Boccasini.)

200. Clement V... France... 1305-1314 (De Gout, archbishop of Bordeaux.)

201. John XXII... France... 1316-1334 (Cardinal Jacob de Esne.) [Nicholas, antipope.]

202. Benedict XII... France... 1334-1342 (Cardinal Jacob Fournier.)

203. Clement VI... France... 1342-1352 (Cardinal Peter Roger.)

204. Innocent VI... France... .1352-1362 (Cardinal Stephen Aubert.)

205. B. Urban V... France... 1362-1370 (Abbot at Marseilles.)

206. Gregory XI... France... 1370-1378 (Cardinal Peter Roger.)

207. Urban VI... Naples... 1378-1389 (Prignano, archbishop of Bari.) [From 1378 to 1410 occurs the great Western Schism, during which, in conflict with the line of popes inserted in the catalogue, is found a rival line residing at Avignon-Clement VII 1378-1394; Benedict XIII 1394-1410. The Council of Pisa, 1410, deposed both rival popes; but Benedict XIII remained in schism till his death in 1424.]

208. Boniface IX... Naples... 1389-1404 (Cardinal Peter Tomacelli.)

209. Innocent VII... Sulmona... .1404-1406 (Migliorati.)

210. Gregory XII... Venice... 1406-1409 (Coriario.)

211. Alexander V... Bologna... 1409-1410 (Cardinal Peter Philargi.)

212. John XXIII... Naples... 1410-1415 (Cardinal Cossa.)

213. Martin V... Rome... 1417-1431 (Cardinal Otto Colonna.)

214. Eugenius IV... Venice... 1431-1447 (Condulmero.) [Felix, antipope.]

215. Nicholas V... Sarzana... .1447-1455 (Thomas de Sarzano.)

216. Calixtus III... Spain... 1455-1458 (Cardinal Alphons Borgia.)

217. Pius II... Sieia... 1458-1464 (AEneas Sylvius Piccolomini.)

218. Paul II... Venice... 1464-1471 (Barbo.)

219. Sixtus IV... Savona... 1471-1484 (Cardinal Francesco della Rovere.)

220. Innocent VIII... Genoa... 1484-1492 (Cardinal John Baptist Cibo.)

221. Alexander VI... Spain... .1492-1503 (Cardinal Rodrigo Borgia.)

222. Pius III... Siena... 1503-1503 (Cardinal Francis Piccolomini.)

223. Julius II... Savona...1503-1513 (Cardinal Rovere.)

224. Leo X... Florence... 1513-1521 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

225. Adrian VI... Netherlands... 1522-1523 (Adrian Florent.)

226. Clement VII... Florence... 1523-1534 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

227. Paul III... Rome... 1534-1549 (Cardinal Alexander Farnese.)

228. Julius III... Tuscany... 1550-1555 (Cardinal del Monte.)

229. Marcellus II... Montepulciano... 1555-1555 (Cardinal Cervino.)

230. Paul IV... Naples... 1555-1559 (Cardinal Caraffa.)

231. Pius IV... Milan... 1559-1565 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

232. St. Pins V... Bosco... 1566-1572 (Michael Ghisleri, cardinal of Alessandria.)

233. Gregory XIII... Bologna... 1572-1585 (Cardinal Hugo Buoncompagno.)

234. Sixtus V... Marchigiano... 1585-1590 (Felix Peretti, cardinal Montalto.)

235. Urban VII... Rome... 1590-1590 (Cardinal Castagna.)

236. Gregory XIV... Cremona... 1590-1591 (Cardinal Sondrati.)

237. Innocent IX... Bologna... 1591-1592 (Cardinal Fachinetti.)

238. Clement VIII... Florence... 1592-1605 (Cardinal Aldobrandini.)

239. Leo XI... Florence... 1605-1605 (Cardinal Octavian de' Medici.)

240. Paul V... Rome... 1605-1621 (Cardinal Camillo Borghese.)

241. Gregory XV... Bologna... 1621-1623 (Cardinal Alexander Ludovisio.)

242. Urban VIII... Florence... 1623-1644 (Cardinal Maffeo Barberini.)

243. Innocent X... Rome... 1644-1655 (Cardinal John Pamfili.)

244. Alexander VII... Siena... 1655-1667 (Cardinal Fabio Chigi.)

245. Clement IX... Pistoia... 1667-1669 (Cardinal Rospigliosi.)

246. Clement X... Rome ... .1670-1676 (Cardinal Altieri.)

247. Innocent XI... Cono... 1676-1689 (Cardinal Benedict Odescalchi.)

248. Alexander VIII... Venice... 1689-1691 (Cardinal Peter Ottoboni.)

249. Innocent XII... Naples... .1691-1700 (Cardinal Anthony Pignatelli.)

250. Clement XI... Urbino... 1700-1721 (Cardinal Albani.)

251. Innocent XIII... Rome... 1721-1724 (Cardinal Conti.)

252. Benedict XIII... Rome... 1724-1730 (Cardinal Orsini.)

253. Clement XII... Floence... 1730-1740 (Cardinal Colsini.)

254. Benedict XIV... Bologna... .1740-1758 (Cardinal Prosper Lambertini.)

255. Clement XIII... Venice... 1758-1769 (Cardinal Rezzonico.)

256. Clement XIV... St. Angelo in Vado…1769-1774 (Cardinal Gianganelli.)

257. Pius VI... Cesena... 1775-1799 (Cardinal Braschi.)

258. Pius VII... Cesena... 1800-1823 (Cardinal Chiaramonte.)

259. Leo XII... Spoleto... 1823-1829 (Cardinal della Genga.)

260. Pius VIII... Cingoli... .1829-1830 (Cardinal Castiglione.)

261. Gregory XVI... Belluno... 1831-1846 (Cardinal Mauro Capellari.)

262. Pius IX... Siniagli... 1846-1878 (Cardinal Mastai Ferretti.)

263. Leo XIII... Carpinetto... 1878 (Cardinal Gioacchino Pesci.)

Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 12:35pm On Sep 29

The apostles never gave any list. In short, by the 2nd century, no one knows anything like Pope in christianity. Your so called apostolic fathers do not all agree on the Popes and the listing.

please can you expantiate on this part. Are their discrepancies in the lists of popes, and is this why you deny the apostolic lineage? Can you provide us with the varying lists? Thank you in advance.
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:21am On Sep 29

Revelations 13;8.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The above scripture shows that the redemption plan(death of Jesus) was planned together along side with the creation plan.

The new testament wasnt an after thought for God.

It didn't say that Jesus death was planned at the beginning. It says that it happened at the beginning.
Religion / Re: Have Your Pastor Addressed The SCOAN Tragedy? by PastorAIO: 9:11pm On Sep 28
dorox: When disasters happens, especially one that is close to home it is the usual practice for pastors to talk about it and ask members to pray for those who are directly affected by the disaster. But in the wake of the SCOAN building collapse it appears that most pastors are carrying on with their business like they did not just lose one of their own. So i would like to know if your pastor have asked for your prayers with regards to those who died and those who are receiving treatment as a result of that tragedy.

This matter is too close to their business. When you see roforofo it is better to avoid it lest it splash on you.
Religion / Re: Have Your Pastor Addressed The SCOAN Tragedy? by PastorAIO: 9:10pm On Sep 28
Gombs: l

[NLT] 1 Thessalonians 4:11 Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before.


grin grin grin Classic!!
Religion / Re: Who Wrote The New Testament? by PastorAIO: 6:29pm On Sep 28

bro, I understand your type, just try to have a personal relationship with God,
can you explain how I see visions (WHICH ALWAYS COME TRUE) , I once didn't believe a god existed, till he revealed himself to me.

Precognitive visions happen to many people, myself included. If it were tied directly to a particular God then how would you explain people following a different religion and different God still having precognitive visions. It happens regardless of your God or religion.

I used to think it was connected to spiritual disciplines ( and maybe it still is) but I noticed that I could get them sometimes when I was at my most spiritually degenerate phase, while other times when I'm 'very spiritual' I do not get them at all. Not to mention the fact that I have no control over them and it is what comes that comes whether it is relevant to my life or not. If I could control it I would be winning the lottery every week. Instead I see where my old discarded slippers are.

The fact is that we live in a mysterious universe of which we haven't scratched the tip of the iceberg of understanding. Maybe the explanation for precognitive visions can be explained scientifically. We can speculate and speculate and speculate but the fact that they happen does not necessarily point to any God or religion.


Religion / Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by PastorAIO: 1:15am On Sep 27
Ubenedictus: i really don't know

At noon Benedictus began to taunt jnrbayano. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is pastorOlu! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened."
- 1Kings 18:27
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 5:59pm On Sep 26

Answer these questions for me, if you do i'll answer yours. Was Moses and rest of the prophets and every events that happened in the Bible fiction?

I didn't ask you any question and it's no skin off my nose if you answer my imaginary question or not. I'm just irritated by the way people like you duck and dive when you are faced with points that expose the duplicity that you harbour.
Religion / Re: A Jewish Boycott: Is It Possible? by PastorAIO: 4:25pm On Sep 26
Meyer M. Treinkman totally misunderstood the entire point. Or maybe he didn't but it just didn't suit his purposes to get the point.

The point of the boycott is to put economic pressure on the Isreali state. Not to reject everything that a Jew has ever done. For Iran to do so it would also have to reject Islam and almost all of it's prophets.

The West imposed sanctions on Iran and also Iraq. Yet they did not reject civilisation which, according to historians, has it's origin in mesopotamia, present day Iraq and Iran. They did not stop using our current numerals which were given to us by the Moslem Arabs and greatly helped us to develop our science and maths.

They just stopped buying certain goods in order to put pressure on Iran and Iraq.

Now this Meyer M. Treinkman is also an extremely ignorant soul. He has the gall to ask 'what medical contributions to the world have moslems made'? Not just ignorance but I can smell a whiff of arrogance and self congratulatory puke in his tone.

Without Arab moslems there would be no such thing as surgery today. There would be no such thing as microscopes to research medicine because it is them that developed the use of lenses. There would be no mathematics. But let's just leave it at medicine. He needs to go and discover the contributions of islam to modern medicine.

Check out this link:
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 3:33pm On Sep 26

Even a secondary student can answer your question....................wait let me get someone from SS class.. undecided, no offence but your question is too lame

He didn't ask you WHO can answer the question. He asked you who wrote the New testament and what the difference between it and the old testament is. You see how people fail exams.
Religion / 'we're Sorry For Giving You Algebra' by PastorAIO: 8:02pm On Sep 25
Muslims around the world have been posting sarcastic messages on social media, in a bid to counter a wave of hostility towards Islam.
Religion / Re: What Is Existentialism? by PastorAIO: 7:49pm On Sep 25

I believe it is an humanistic ideology that Christians have now imbibed whereby we now identify God's Word through our own experience. In essence, we decide what is true by our likes, desires, or biases. An example is that almost all Christians believes in heaven, but almost no one believes in hell. shocked

Na today? Hasn't this always been the way? You yourself are a prime expert at this 'deciding what is true by ... likes, desires or biases'.
Religion / Re: Inside TB Joshua’s Broken Temple by PastorAIO: 6:56pm On Sep 24
What we are saying is that your mentor, TB JOSHUA is a frauuuuuuud and murderer who should be prosecuted for turning a 4-story building into 6-stories which then collapsed &squashed many people into a bloody mess! Are you just dull or dumb? Please, go back to the remaining guest house in your synagogue while you await the day of your own building collapse.

Maybe he is one of the ones went to TbJ for healing of Dull mind, but he still hasn't received his healing yet.

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