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PastorAIO's Posts

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Religion / Re: Is Judaism the oldest religion? by PastorAIO: 11:52am On Feb 12
the oldest religion known to man is Hinduism..

Hinduism is not a religion.
Religion / Re: Is Judaism the oldest religion? by PastorAIO: 3:06am On Feb 12
check out zoroastrianism. Judaism is very much derived from it.
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 6:22pm On Feb 11
Are commercial magicians part of this thing. Another one was walking on River Thames on t.v. For a while before the police took him out. Explain How do demons facilitate that Sarassin.

I don't believe they are defying gravity. Some unseen hands?

This dude is funny o! You saw someone walking on river thames?


Jesus not. Maybe the rest. (Edited: also not Moses, Abraham, definitely not King Solomon)
Of course everything a human does has repercussions. Here, the rituals are solely intended to attract demonic possession, so be ready for unnecessary torment. Sarrasin is right. There are people who can handle this. You need a certain level of darkness to engage in these things, otherwise the demons you attract will come only to destroy you.
Some of the ritual may seen vain, but that's the secret behind the powers of darkness. Vanity is key. So is the lust of the flesh. The power of Jesus works with the exact opposite. The flesh has to die, and there is no vanity. Every action has to have order, meaning and fruitfulness. Goodness.
That's the difference.

On a more serious note. You have to be very careful about the majority of these churches that are called christian churches. Somebody will take you there and they will say 'are you ready to receive the holy spirit?'. Then like mumu you too will say 'yes' and you will open yourself up.

Look around you. Does the person giving you the spirit look like he has a clean spirit in him. Are you sure you're not opening yourself up to a spirit of Avarice, or Mendacity, or Deceit? And the more these 'spirit filled churches' proliferated the lower the country sinks into a quagmire of opacity.

All these arrogant strutting lying pastor can not give you anything good. Don't open yourself up to them.

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Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:40pm On Feb 11

You should read some of his works, in particular Liber LXXXIV Vel Chanokh as well as Crowley’s treatise on his work with “Aethyrs” Liber 418 (The vision and Voice)

I've read a lot of Crowley in my youth. A helluva lot (no pun intended). What is it about Liber 84 that you find so impressive? Is it because it is dense? Not every dense text is intelligent, it can also be a load of nonsense.

How many Rabbi's do you know that rate Crowley's qabala? Or any traditional qabalist?

My point exactly, it takes all sorts. Moral rectitude has never been a pre-requisite to forming a religious or mystical order. The number of followers of a religious order is of no consequence to me, I do not practice any religion.

That was not your point at all. This is what you said in response to my statement about spiritual accomplishments , I quote: I can provide you a list of religious founders all the way from the Prophet Muhammed to Joseph Smith and Ron L. Hubbard whose lives would not pass your morality test, the knees of whose followers continue to blister in unabated obeisance, let us not get too judgemental.

You obviously took followership to be a sign of spiritual accomplishment. If you want to retract from that stance I'll accept your retraction.

Yes, I did state that I consider Crowley a great occultist and mystic, that is my opinion and it is based on his work not on hype. In my view when you criticize a man for his lack of self-discipline, addictions and what have you, then it is a moral judgement.

Whether or not it's a moral judgement is not the koko. I'm saying that someone that doesn't have discipline and is a slave to addictions cannot by a great mystic.

I am not sure where you have gotten the idea that great followership is of importance to me. I saw the program Derren Brown replicated the dodgy miracles perpetrated by evangelical con-men, it merely vindicated what I already knew. I am also familiar with the techniques of auto-suggestion and mesmerism, Benny Hinn jackets and all.

I got the idea when in response to what I said about spiritual accomplishments you pointed to many religious founders who have a big following.

As for Crowley in Boleskin Hse, I read that he abandoned the process less than half-way through after getting called away and neglected to carry out banishing rites leading to all sorts of manifestations. More likely he lacked the self-discipline to complete the process. The singer Jimmy Page has since stated that Boleskin Hse was renowned for being haunted even before Crowley purchased the property. Crowley would not be the first or the last to attempt the Abramelin Rites and fail. More than anything else I believe he wanted to validate the grimoire.

Whether he wanted to validate the grimoire or not, he failed. How can someone who failed be considered by you to be a great mystic? Someone who ran away from his own mess after the spirits flogged him out of the house.

15And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house Unclad and wounded
Acts 19

You do not rate Crowley, I get it. Your opinions of his abilities seem to me to be formed by the larger than life personality of the man.

I think the vast majority are familiar with perhaps just one aspect of Crowley’s work and that is mostly his work on invocations/evocations of entities and his incorporation of Goetia into Thelema, this is the part that mostly concerns the dilettante who will then fancy their abilities in their quest for wealth, fame and whatnot to conjure a demon, a spirit or entity to do their bidding.

I do not rate Crowley, not because of any larger than life nonsense, but because he was a pathetic failure with a nasty attitude to supplement it.

Crowley himself once stated that Magical Invocations/Evocations were a form of psychological self-exploration, Carl Jung had similar views. I have no idea what level practitioner you are or if indeed you are a practitioner at all, but given that we know any invocation or evocation inevitably means that the summoned entity will take possession of the practitioner, do you then wonder why absolute idi.ots lacking basic precautions and lacking the psychic strength to withstand the inundation of force that will accompany a possession….lose their minds?

At least on this one I agree with Crowley about the psychological exploration. And Carl Jung too. Let me put it in very simple terms so everybody can understand. These rituals are nothing but Induced Psychosis. The very that people get locked up for in Yaba Left, that is what these people are trying to bring about in themselves. The idea is that it can be controlled and used purposefully.

Invocations are the same thing as possession, but there is nothing unique about possession here. The world history is full of possession cults.

Christianity is itself a possession Cult. The christian is possessed by the Holy spirit etc etc. Orisha cults are all possession cults. Most traditional religions are possession cults.

The problem is not that one gets possessed but the type of entity possessing you and how you prepare yourself for it. If you have an arrogant disposition and malevolence then you're in trouble because in the spiritual world, like attracts like. You get it? According to your personality and orientation the kind of entities that you'll attract will come. So you see that purifying the soul is a very important prerequisite and your moral character is of utmost importance.

Whether it is Crowley’s system or not Hermetic Qabalah, or to call a spade a spade, Ceremonial magic is not a business for shrinking violets or those of the disposition of wallpaper flower, one requires a huge Ego, a brass neck and supreme confidence in one’s own abilities to command one’s space and summon, conjure and instruct an entity. Mis-application of ritual, ego-driven non-observance of simple precautionary measures and a lack of diligence often leads to devastating and un-intended consequences. You are either all in or all out, and if you get it wrong no cricket bats or Philly blunt will save you. If it is too much then it is perhaps best you stick to “iwa pele

You see those parts that I've marked purple. Those are the parts where you're most playing with your own destruction.

That huge Ego is the one thing that you don't need. What you need is to make a confession of Ignorance at the threshold.

This is done in every religion plugged into the tradition. Humility is your greatest asset.

Even the most experienced Babalawo will reiterate: Iwo L'awo, Emi l'ogberi. Meaning you are the initiate and I am the ignorant. They say this to everyone. Even to the person coming for consultation.
Before any ritual they will make an appeal to the Isoro orun. That is the Masters of the rites in heaven. They will beg them to come and conduct the ritual for them. Nobody knows too much, or even knows enough. All your diligence and precautionary measures can help you none. Humility, my guy. That very Iwa-pele that you are scorning and deriding. You need to learn what it is.

Good Luck.

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Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 12:11pm On Feb 08

Ok, if you assert that Crowley had no accomplishments then I’ll leave it at that. As I stated earlier I hold no candle to the man.

Where did I assert that Crowley had no accomplishments? You are the one that spoke of his accomplishments and I said that other than climbing a few hills I wasn't aware of any. Then I asked you what accomplishments. You haven't answered yet.

Spirituality has to be subjective, it is hugely dependent on the individual’s perception and awareness of their own spirituality.

So in context I take it that you believe Bobby Henderson's church of the Spaghetti monster to be a proper spiritual discipline validated by the subjective 'perception and awareness' of it's many adherents the world over.

I can provide you a list of religious founders all the way from the Prophet Muhammed to Joseph Smith and Ron L. Hubbard whose lives would not pass your morality test, the knees of whose followers continue to blister in unabated obeisance, let us not get too judgemental.

Would your list also include Evangelical preachers and Pentecostal con men? You seem to think that charlatans are incapable of founding religions that will have loyal followers for centuries. Or is the number of followers your criteria for whether a religious founder was a successful mystic or not?

And while we're on this subject, do you think that Casteneda's Don Juan actually existed?

This is not to say that I regard Crowley as a prophet in the traditional sense, or that I had some epiphany to that effect, certainly not. My overall point is that mystical, spiritual or occultic abilities often have no bearing on the personality of the subject. We should not define such abilities under a narrow religious spectrum.

You'd have fooled me. I thought I read you say he was a great mystic or something. If you had no such epiphany then what was that opinion based on. I suspect it is based on swallowing the hype the the publishers of his books have been dishing out for a few decades now.
I don't think I've made any judgment on Crowley's morality. I don't know where you saw that. I criticised his lack of self discipline, I criticised his addictions and the fact that he was controlled by his baser appetites.

Money was never a motivation of Crowley and few who knew of him would describe him as a foo.l.

Is that so? I wonder what William B. Yeats would answer to that. Or many others that were in the Golden Dawn.

In any case the adage stands true: A Foo1 and his money are soon parted.

Beyond stage-managed shenaningans, Pentecostals have nothing to prove.

They have lots of followers which seems to be an important criteria for you. They are also capable of creating many wonderful psychological effects which impress their congregations immensely. Never mind the fact that Derren Brown often replicates them on tv. How do you explain people falling over when the pastor waves his jacket? That isn't stage managed. When you know what buttons to push you can create many great effects.

In my view, whatever path Crowley chose, his personality likely would have destroyed him. Without wishing to give too much oxygen to this Crowley issue because Thelema is really not my thing, It is fair enough to say the system is not for you because there is nothing for you to admire about in the founder, but as for practitioners ending up in an asylum, I think that any practitioner runs that risk in any mystical order that has Hermetic Qabalah at its roots with a sprinkling of ceremonial magic. What is more? they all seem to be doing the same thing. One thing is for sure it is not for the dilettante or the casually curious.

Anybody can end up in a asylum just trying to make it through this vale of tears we call life, but when you see that there are activities that make it considerably more likely that you will go psychotic it is better to avoid that activity, wouldn't you think?

Talking of dilettante and casually curious. What happened to Crowley in Boleskine house? That was where he attempted the Magic of Abramelin to meet his HGA. Did he spend the full 6 months? Or did he flee from the house? Did he unleash forces he couldn't control and then run away apparently leaving the house haunted? Did he manage the required celibacy? The abstinence from drugs and alcohol?

You say it is very easy to create effects, sounds, see colours e.t.c, I say it is not the case. Western mages talk a good game, they all have the knowledge but in my experience, very few have the ability to walk the walk, Mysticism is about "doing" hence I turned my back on the lot and looked in other directions.

I say it is. Just give me a cricket bat and come and bring your head before me. La ila illaallah, you will see flashing lights!!
Ask anybody that has taken lsd or smoked igbo how easy it is to hallucinate.
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 11:48pm On Feb 07

I hold no candle for Crowley but I would separate the accomplishments from the man.

Accomplishments? pray tell. All I can know is that he climbed a few hills.

No one can deny his many character failings, they ranged from extreme hostility to Christianity, misogyny, neglect of family, loss of friends through obnoxiousness, to megalomania and sado-masochistic tendencies, but we are often reminded that inspired wisdom is often socially condemned as insanity.

I'll have to take your word for that.

He was a creator of a new religious tradition whether one accepts a flawed character such as Crowley as a spiritual and mystical leader depends on one's model of spirituality.

So is Bobby Henderson.
I take it now that for you spirituality is not an objective reality but rather different people have different models of what it is.

My point is a person might have attained to real mystical accomplishments yet retain base characteristics of their personality.

I couldn't disagree more. If your spiritual 'accomplishments' cannot be evidenced in your daily personality then you're just jiving.

As a mystic I understand Crowley as a certain prophet. Selected because in spite of his human frailties he was a man of great strength, intelligence and certain discipline, an occultist of many incarnations with the potential to fit himself for a place with the Prophets and Bodhisattvas of other religions.

I'll have to take your word for all this too. You had a mystical experience that showed you Crowley was a prophet. I see no evidence that he is. But if you say so …. undecided

The man was not enamoured of money, his rituals may or may not have worked, what we do know is that he worked his way through two great inherited fortunes.

Yep, That great Mystical Cosmic Law remains immutable. The one about the Foo1 and his Money.

You cannot understand the man unless you work within his system gaining attainment and only then can one judge Crowley, i.e from an Initiated perspective. No other perspective is equal to the task of interpreting an Adept.

Now you sound like a deluded pentecostal claiming that you cannot understand his delusion unless you give yourself to it thoroughly.

Me I know one thing for sure in my life:

If I'm looking for Money, I can never go to a wretched pauper for advise

If I'm looking for Love, I can never go to the lonely man for advise

If I want to learn engineering, I will go to an engineer

If I want to learn medicine, I will look for a doctor

If I want to learn music, I'll seek to learn from a musician

If I want to learn Iwa Pele, I'll look for a humble man

etc etc etc, I'm sure you get my drift.

There is no way I'm going to chook my head inside a system whose founder has no qualities I admire. Furthermore a system that is widely known for it's practitioners ending up in the asylum. I even know personally of people who dabbled and they're in the nuthouse. Not to mention the more famous direct students of Crowley himself.

Crowley is nothing more than an example of the Sorcerer's apprentice. Playing with things that he doesn't understand, cannot handle, and ultimately destroys him. Like I said, it's very easy, too easy, to create an effect, any effect. Too easy to see colours, to meet beings, to visit planes etc. Anybody can pick up Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage and start destroying his life.

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Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 11:18pm On Feb 07

We are always looking for the "smoking gun" but one can find the Divine God only in the innermost space.
Okay undecided
though I didn't ask where to find it, or even that I was looking for it.

If one seeks God, the moment you “Seek”, then what you “Seek” becomes a part of your world, because “Seeking” is of the world. Therefore there are techniques to experience the Divine God but there are no intellectual understandings.


All the great teachers have had a realization of this inner space. Because of the experience of that moment when the inner space is known, one is liable to go mad. Some will proclaim themselves God. And this realization is so certain that even if you kill the man he will not change his statement because really, you cannot kill him as far as he is concerned now he has become whole.

I'm happy to take your word for it.

Christianity says “God is Love” Tantra teaches “God IS Love” yet Love cannot be expressed, how then can you fully express God or the Divine, One cannot, you can but experience God.

I express Love all the time. I experience Love too.

Let me ask another way. You say that I can experience God. Would you also say that I can experience numerous other things too?

In that case, how would I distinguish the experience of God from the experience of other things?
Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:04pm On Feb 07
Natural law is contrasted with revealed moral law on one hand and civic law on d other. It is interesting because it suppose to b in everymans hearts, i.e everyone whether secular or religious should follow its dictates.

It gets even more interesting, this natural law may b clouded by sin and culture so dat many may not even see or accept it, in these cases d church claim jurisdiction is reminding men of it. Natural law is d reason why d catholic church thinks all govt should ban abortion, she believes dat it is not a religious issue but a human issue, contraception, euthanasia...are all issues d church discusses under natural law as well as marriage in a sense and sanctity of human life.

I looked it up. It stems mainly from Aquinas. I have some interesting questions I'd like to probe, but right now my head is in a different space.

I always raise a dubious eyebrow whenever I hear the word 'natural' cos I've never heard it defined by anyone. But please bear with me and I'll get back to you on this matter but the end of this coming week.
Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 5:01pm On Feb 07
Must God have a colour?

Anyway, the point still stands that foreign religion does not deprive you of awareness of your skin colour.


Once your God is not the same color as you then you are deprived of awareness of who you are; you will forever be tying to "fix" yourself.Copy of a copy doesn't make it original.
Afrikan be who you are.

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Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 4:51pm On Feb 07

In my view Crowley was a great Mystic and Occultist, he re-defined the boundaries of Hermetic Qabalah, he also came up with un-believeable "asanas" but I believe his greatest failing was that of EGO. It was his Ego that led him to give a public display of his abilities, (e.g stepping off of cliffs in the presence of nuns and the electrical demonstration e.t.c)

To become a successful Mystic, one has to conquer the carnal mind which always acts against us and avoid falling into the trap of pandering to the Ego.

How do you reconcile the two aspects of your post which I've distinguished by marking them purple and brown.

How can a great mystic have the Great failing of an EGO?

How can a 'successful Mystic' still be pandering to his ego and completely fail to conquer his carnal mind?

Crowley was a man driven by his very basest drives. They totally dominated and controlled him. He never had any control over anything he did. He was driven by his fleshly addictions. Even to the point of being a junkie. What were the results of all his money making rituals? Did he ever make any money?

It is one thing to create an effect, any effect. It is quite another thing to create the right effect.

If you're into sensationalism and have a dilettantists approach then there are many effects that you can encounter. You will see many colours and go to many places. Heck, if you allow me to whack you over the head with a cricket bat I swear you will see stars! However to equate that with great mysticism would be a grievous error.

I wonder, what was so unbelievable about the asanas that Crowley came up with?

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Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 4:33pm On Feb 07
I get you a little clearer now. However you must admit that there are a variety of subjective experiences and to accord names and terms to them it will be necessary to distinguish them from each other and to do so would require some sort of criteria (if not a definition). So what are the criteria that a subjective experience must have before you would call it a Godly experience?


Hi PastorAIO, I cannot presume to give a definition of God or Divinity, the Divine would be different things to different people, however from my previous post that you referred to, you would see that I wrote about being careful not to make the felt "presence" an objective one, you seem to have inadvertently done so. My premise is that one encounters the Divine in one's own innermost being.
Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 2:35pm On Feb 07
I don't think foreign religion has deprived us of an awareness of the colour of our skin.


Being black people who love who they are and not trying to be who they are not.We are naturally spiritual people the original people.

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Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 2:34pm On Feb 07
Please can you explain more by what you mean by this 'presence'.

I feel presences all the time. But I wouldn't call them God. Sometimes I feel a presence behind me and I turn around to find my sister approaching me. Or I might feel a presence, turn around and find nobody there. Maybe that is a discarnate presence.

Then sometimes I might walk into a room and feel a particular persons presence only for it to be confirmed that the person had just left 5 minutes before.

However jumping to the conclusion that felt presences are God is a bit too much of a jump for me.

Can you give us a succinct definition of God, or Divinity?


I do not see that there is any God who created the world. It is the religionists who would personify God to suit their purpose. I certainly experience a quality of godliness in existence, but it is a quality, not a person. It is more like love, more like silence, more like joy – less like a person. You are never going to meet God and say hello how are you? I have been looking for you for thousands of years; where have you been hiding?

God is not a person but only a presence.

And when I say "presence," one must be careful, because you can go on listening according to your own conditioning. You can even make "presence" something objective – you would have fallen into the same trap. God is a presence at the innermost core of your being: it is your own presence. It is not a meeting with somebody else.
Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 1:14pm On Feb 07

There's no different between given a new name and given a new religion.The whole point is to deprive you of your real and true identity.

Please, what is our real and true identity?
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:11pm On Feb 07
Hello Sarassin,

Please what are the chances of failure, and the risks that come with failure, when one pursues mystical paths.

And, What do you think of people like Crowley, who to me is an obvious failed mystic in spite of his popularity?

How does one avoid ending up like people such as this?


I studied Jewish arcana in the form of Qabalah in its purest form, I devoted a substantial part of my life to learning how to develop a better awareness, perception and the manifestation of my intentions through the study of Shamanic practices. In addition, at various times I learnt different aspects of the mystery Liturgy of Hermes Trismegistus. None of these have any relations to Ifa or Illuminati (who are as extinct as the dodo) you may find extremely watered down Qabalah and Hermetic doctrine in Freemasonry, but for me, Freemasonry is more about style over substance, I practice Tantra and have been studying the Vedas in its original form in Sanskrit for over a decade.

You ask what I sought, the answer of course is Enlightenment.
You ask whether there were any financial, political or social benefits? Really I would not know, those things hold no interest to me. Once you have experienced Gnosis, your life is never really the same again.

Of course it is possible to pervert the gains of teachings for the attainment of power and glory e.t.c, if that is what is desired. But if you are fortunate enough to achieve even a “fractional” enlightenment then you will glimpse your purpose in life.

In Goetia King Solomon reputedly held the Sigils of dominion over 72 demons, but I believe you already knew this.

Pythagoras, brilliant mathematician, philosopher and dare I say, mystic, you can glimpse his work in the writings of Aristotle, Plato and Orpheus, the father of all Greek thought…including Christianity. It is from Pythagoras we are bequeathed the idea of the “triune God
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:04pm On Feb 07
These phenomena are normal and common phenomena and it is about time we start to investigate them without the hullabaloo and mumbo jumbo of primitive religious/mystical ideas. They are all effects that can be initiated in the brain and can be switched on and off. We have to start studying these things scientifically.

Activity in one region of the brain could explain out-of-body experiences. Researchers in Switzerland have triggered the phenomenon using electrodes1.

People describe out-of-body experiences as feeling that their consciousness becomes detached from their body, often floating above it. Because these lucid states are popularly linked to the paranormal, "a lot of people are reluctant to talk about them", says neurologist Olaf Blanke of Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland.

Blanke found that electrically stimulating one brain region — the right angular gyrus — repeatedly triggers out-of-body experiences. Blanke and his team were using electrodes to excite the brain of a woman being treated for epilepsy.


It seems obvious to me that even what we call normality or reality is something that has just been constructed by the mind. One of the functions of the mind is to arrange experience according to a perspective. That perspective normally happens to be our body. So we experience reality happening from the point of view of where our body's are located. However that function can be disrupted and we begin to experience our environment from a perspective other than that of where our bodies are located. Finito!

If you like call it winchy or any outlandish term but at the end of the day it is just a perfectly normal explainable phenomena.


Can this be called a dream?.
I leave my body most times like that while asleep, i look at my self sleeping and i see my children sleeping too, but before i step out of my room i find my self in the arena where i'm transacting.

At first i was afraid each time i leave my body, but now i'm conscious of it like normal.

Strange though, because i don't practice any religion, was raised a christian.

@Sarassin, can one be initiated into some funny things unknowingly?

How do i make this stop?.....is like i don't have control over it?.

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Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 12:24pm On Feb 07

I work in financial centre,I do not see any sign or pointer,except that I may need 3d or 9d glasses to look for the signs next time.

I'm sure you've heard of arbitrage.

And most recently you'd have heard of Libor rates fixing.

Glasses are not necessary. Only honesty. The arbitrager is not inventing anything or providing any service.
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 10:37pm On Feb 05


I usually don't talk to rude people,but I'll give you a benefit of doubt,one can make a point without disrespecting the other,however,Time has changed,every inventor are rewarded bountifully now.Those names you mentioned may've been poor due to time or other reasons best known to them,not because they didn't have sex with a priest or whatever.

Anyway,I don't have energy to type on forum let alone argue on the net.

I think it's best you believe what you believe,and I know what I know.


I was rude, and I apologise. It wasn't really intentional, but my turn of phrase includes phrases such as 'what nonsense ….'. It is something that I've worked to tone down in Nairaland but it still pops up now and then. I really do apologise and while I'll try to refrain from it, knowing myself I really can't promise that it won't happen again. But I'll have you know that the intention of it is not to antagonise.

My point was that it takes more than service and invention to make money and most times it doesn't even take invention and service at all.

Just go to any financial centre in the world to get my point.
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 2:49pm On Feb 05
The Shamans died in poverty? and few that remain went to Australia? How did they get to Australia and without any money?

How do you measure poverty sef?

But leave that one aside that's not of much interest. What nonsense are you saying here? let me repeat you:
the only way out of poverty is to provide a service or sell something

Who taught you such nonsense? Nikola Tesla that gave us the electricity that we are all using today (AC), didn't he die in poverty?

Tim Berners Lee that gave us the internet that we're all using today, how much money did he make from it? Zero.

Van Gogh whose paintings sell for millions today, didn't he die in poverty.

My bros there is no correlation between providing a service and escaping poverty.


I am by no means scoff nor ridicule anyone,afterall I credited him for his imaginations,I am only raising a scam alert,he maybe/not telling the truth,but I as far as I know there's such things.

The shamans that he referenced here many of them died off in poverty,the few that remain are in Australia and guess what?they are so poor and repressed,if they have such power their case would've been different,and I can tell you that I've been initiated in some of the oldest orders in the world(global)if you know what that mean,and I can tell you that the only way out of poverty is to provide a service or sell something,few invent or inherit wealth,but not by/from any order.

Don't fall for any scam.


Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 12:16pm On Feb 04
More questions on Natural Law.

Does the use of drugs for illness contravene natural law?

When a short sighted person uses Spectacles does he contravene natural law?

Does Agriculture contravene Natural law? Once man discovered that he could plant seeds and cultivate the growth, the surface of the earth changed. Instead of things growing naturally where they fell they were deliberately planted in plantations while other plants on the same field were uprooted as weeds. This had a debilitating effect on the soil. Was this an abuse of nature?

When God made the Sun stand still over Gibeon, was this contravening natural law? If so, then how come God can contravene natural laws but we shouldn't?

I've never heard of anything as vague and amorphous as this Natural Law. Please help.
Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 11:50am On Feb 04
You seem to have missed where I referred to the thousands of divergent denominations and asked how you know you're not being misled from your bible in light of these.


You are asking me how I know, well I found out about it in the Bible.

And if you choose not to know, well that's your choice, I am not here to debate any claim not backed by scriptures.

1 Like

Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 1:28am On Feb 04
I don't think you've still got the main gist.

Nobody on this thread has questioned God or asked you to defend God.

The questions have been 'How do you know ….. '?

What has been called to question are YOUR claims about God? YOUR claims about heaven and hell. YOUR claims!!

They have no basis. You are just making stuff up and fantasising woefully.

The only thing that you've gotten right so far is that I want to question your convictions.

Yes, I want to question YOUR convictions. What are they based on? On the bible? then I asked a simple question. How are you sure that the bible cannot mislead you? After all it is the same bible that the thousands of different denominations with their conflicting doctrines are reading.


I am not in a position to defend or question God for his actions because he knows far better than you or me and I guess you are wise eneough to know that.

Your question is likened to the question of Why did God create the being called satan that is troubling mankind or why did God not create all humans black or all humans white so there wont be racial discrimination.


Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:09am On Feb 04
Question. How long are you prepared to keep going for? Say, you've been at it for 12 months and you haven't met or conversed with anything,
how long before you'd give up? Or would you just keep going for the rest of your life?

How will you know HGA is HGA if and when something occurs? Your mind could be playing tricks on you.

I am on the process of the K and C of my HGA and I must admit it is a ride, I was told by an old friend that "it" is out there and not in fine print, hence my delve. I have done the reading.

The contemplating and reminiscing, the piety and cautions, the solitary confines and preparing for that communication, sometimes I wonder if I am ready or not. I try to customize as many a mage have done in the past, Crowley claims his was a 3week process, I don't know. Never have I been a big fan of beef, so it really doesn't matter. I just changed residence; I think it helps. Its tasking staying of alcoholic beverages because I like to indulge every now and then, but I must. I saw scripture in the Vedas for failed ritual processes I am taking them serious because I understand the dangers

In a short while I will be off all social contact.

Better part is I have learnt more than I ever have.
Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 5:34pm On Feb 03
I'm all ears.

1 Like

Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:56pm On Feb 03

Whether the Pope believe that there is a hell or not thats his opinion. Besides the Pope is not the standard for a Bible based Christianity.
But Jesus talked about hell, and he is called the truth. I choose to believe Jesus and the bible which cant mislead me.

Everything you know about Jesus is from the bible so all you are saying is that you choose to believe the bible.

The next question. How do you know the bible cannot mislead you?


Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:53pm On Feb 03
You missed the point completely. How is causing suffering just to glorified yourself okay? Her question was not why God would do so at all, but why he would use such a pathetic and heartless means to make such a cheap point such as self glorification.

Would God not be more glorified if no one was born with defects at all?

I'm reminded of a metaphor that Malcolm X once used that America expecting black people to be grateful is like someone sticking a 10 inch blade into your back, then pulling it out by 3 inches (remaining 7 inches still in your back), then expecting you to be grateful that they pulled it out a bit.


John 9King James Version (KJV)

9 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth.

2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind?

3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.

4 I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.

5 As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.

6 When he had thus spoken, he spat on the ground, and made clay of the spittle, and he anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay,

7 And said unto him, Go, wash in the pool of Siloam, (which is by interpretation, Sent.) He went his way therefore, and washed, and came seeing.

8 The neighbours therefore, and they which before had seen him that he was blind, said, Is not this he that sat and begged?

9 Some said, This is he: others said, He is like him: but he said, I am he.

10 Therefore said they unto him, How were thine eyes opened?

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight

Does this answer your question


Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:44pm On Feb 03

Are you sure you are not the devils advocate? you said that how do you know that whatever is supposedly waiting in heaven will be more valuable than the experiences (like joy, togetherness, love, learning, and growth) that we have access to here on earth? how do you know that the fires of hell will not be hotter that the fire on earth?

This earth is hellish enough for some but people like you are still clamouring for another hell fire after you die. You didn't see any, but out of your desire and wishful thinking you've fancied one up.


Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:51am On Feb 03

Humanae Vitae is a papal encyclical written by Pope Paul VI. In this encyclical which was written during the time when Protestant churches were beginning to allow the use of contraceptives, the Pope condemns all contraception including onanism as intrinsically evil and as against God's natural law. In other words Catholics are not allowed to alter the sexual act through any means. Catholics therefore are to abstain from sex during times when the wife is fertile. That is natural family planning(NFP) from a layman's point of view.

I'm curious about this natural law.

How is Natural Law determined?

What is natural law to be contrasted with? Supernatural Law? Or Artificial (man made) law?

Why is natural law held in such high esteem, over other laws (I presume that there are other laws)?
Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 1:29pm On Jan 31

I would appreciate a conversation rather than 3 words.
Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 10:44am On Jan 31
I want to believe catholism encourages natural family planning. Maybe that's what salc was referring to.

What is Natural family planning? Can you give me some examples of it's practices?

EDIT: Okay, I've just had to google it. it's about watching the menstrual cycle abi?
Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 1:46am On Jan 31
the only thing that comes to mind for me is Onanism, but the church already condemns that.
Sorry, I'm not a rocket scientist. Ultimately you've contributed nothing if you can't explain what you mean.

Sorry I don't think I wanna do that. Though it isn't rocket science. smiley
Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:38pm On Jan 30
Learn the natural family planning methods, stick carefully to it and that solves it.

What's that? would you care to make an exposition for us here.

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