|Join Nairaland / Login / Trending / Recent / New|
Stats: 1,526,678 members, 2,667,632 topics. Date: Saturday, 13 February 2016 at 04:15 PM
|Religion / Re: Is Judaism the oldest religion? by PastorAIO: 11:52am On Feb 12|
Hinduism is not a religion.
|Religion / Re: Is Judaism the oldest religion? by PastorAIO: 3:06am On Feb 12|
check out zoroastrianism. Judaism is very much derived from it.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 6:22pm On Feb 11|
This dude is funny o! You saw someone walking on river thames?
On a more serious note. You have to be very careful about the majority of these churches that are called christian churches. Somebody will take you there and they will say 'are you ready to receive the holy spirit?'. Then like mumu you too will say 'yes' and you will open yourself up.
Look around you. Does the person giving you the spirit look like he has a clean spirit in him. Are you sure you're not opening yourself up to a spirit of Avarice, or Mendacity, or Deceit? And the more these 'spirit filled churches' proliferated the lower the country sinks into a quagmire of opacity.
All these arrogant strutting lying pastor can not give you anything good. Don't open yourself up to them.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:40pm On Feb 11|
I've read a lot of Crowley in my youth. A helluva lot (no pun intended). What is it about Liber 84 that you find so impressive? Is it because it is dense? Not every dense text is intelligent, it can also be a load of nonsense.
How many Rabbi's do you know that rate Crowley's qabala? Or any traditional qabalist?
My point exactly, it takes all sorts. Moral rectitude has never been a pre-requisite to forming a religious or mystical order. The number of followers of a religious order is of no consequence to me, I do not practice any religion.
That was not your point at all. This is what you said in response to my statement about spiritual accomplishments , I quote: I can provide you a list of religious founders all the way from the Prophet Muhammed to Joseph Smith and Ron L. Hubbard whose lives would not pass your morality test, the knees of whose followers continue to blister in unabated obeisance, let us not get too judgemental.
You obviously took followership to be a sign of spiritual accomplishment. If you want to retract from that stance I'll accept your retraction.
Whether or not it's a moral judgement is not the koko. I'm saying that someone that doesn't have discipline and is a slave to addictions cannot by a great mystic.
I got the idea when in response to what I said about spiritual accomplishments you pointed to many religious founders who have a big following.
Whether he wanted to validate the grimoire or not, he failed. How can someone who failed be considered by you to be a great mystic? Someone who ran away from his own mess after the spirits flogged him out of the house.
15And the evil spirit answered and said to them, "I recognize Jesus, and I know about Paul, but who are you?" 16And the man, in whom was the evil spirit, leaped on them and subdued all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house Unclad and wounded
I do not rate Crowley, not because of any larger than life nonsense, but because he was a pathetic failure with a nasty attitude to supplement it.
At least on this one I agree with Crowley about the psychological exploration. And Carl Jung too. Let me put it in very simple terms so everybody can understand. These rituals are nothing but Induced Psychosis. The very that people get locked up for in Yaba Left, that is what these people are trying to bring about in themselves. The idea is that it can be controlled and used purposefully.
Invocations are the same thing as possession, but there is nothing unique about possession here. The world history is full of possession cults.
Christianity is itself a possession Cult. The christian is possessed by the Holy spirit etc etc. Orisha cults are all possession cults. Most traditional religions are possession cults.
The problem is not that one gets possessed but the type of entity possessing you and how you prepare yourself for it. If you have an arrogant disposition and malevolence then you're in trouble because in the spiritual world, like attracts like. You get it? According to your personality and orientation the kind of entities that you'll attract will come. So you see that purifying the soul is a very important prerequisite and your moral character is of utmost importance.
You see those parts that I've marked purple. Those are the parts where you're most playing with your own destruction.
That huge Ego is the one thing that you don't need. What you need is to make a confession of Ignorance at the threshold.
This is done in every religion plugged into the tradition. Humility is your greatest asset.
Even the most experienced Babalawo will reiterate: Iwo L'awo, Emi l'ogberi. Meaning you are the initiate and I am the ignorant. They say this to everyone. Even to the person coming for consultation.
Before any ritual they will make an appeal to the Isoro orun. That is the Masters of the rites in heaven. They will beg them to come and conduct the ritual for them. Nobody knows too much, or even knows enough. All your diligence and precautionary measures can help you none. Humility, my guy. That very Iwa-pele that you are scorning and deriding. You need to learn what it is.
3 Likes 1 Share
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 12:11pm On Feb 08|
Where did I assert that Crowley had no accomplishments? You are the one that spoke of his accomplishments and I said that other than climbing a few hills I wasn't aware of any. Then I asked you what accomplishments. You haven't answered yet.
Spirituality has to be subjective, it is hugely dependent on the individual’s perception and awareness of their own spirituality.
So in context I take it that you believe Bobby Henderson's church of the Spaghetti monster to be a proper spiritual discipline validated by the subjective 'perception and awareness' of it's many adherents the world over.
Would your list also include Evangelical preachers and Pentecostal con men? You seem to think that charlatans are incapable of founding religions that will have loyal followers for centuries. Or is the number of followers your criteria for whether a religious founder was a successful mystic or not?
And while we're on this subject, do you think that Casteneda's Don Juan actually existed?
You'd have fooled me. I thought I read you say he was a great mystic or something. If you had no such epiphany then what was that opinion based on. I suspect it is based on swallowing the hype the the publishers of his books have been dishing out for a few decades now.
I don't think I've made any judgment on Crowley's morality. I don't know where you saw that. I criticised his lack of self discipline, I criticised his addictions and the fact that he was controlled by his baser appetites.
Is that so? I wonder what William B. Yeats would answer to that. Or many others that were in the Golden Dawn.
In any case the adage stands true: A Foo1 and his money are soon parted.
They have lots of followers which seems to be an important criteria for you. They are also capable of creating many wonderful psychological effects which impress their congregations immensely. Never mind the fact that Derren Brown often replicates them on tv. How do you explain people falling over when the pastor waves his jacket? That isn't stage managed. When you know what buttons to push you can create many great effects.
Anybody can end up in a asylum just trying to make it through this vale of tears we call life, but when you see that there are activities that make it considerably more likely that you will go psychotic it is better to avoid that activity, wouldn't you think?
Talking of dilettante and casually curious. What happened to Crowley in Boleskine house? That was where he attempted the Magic of Abramelin to meet his HGA. Did he spend the full 6 months? Or did he flee from the house? Did he unleash forces he couldn't control and then run away apparently leaving the house haunted? Did he manage the required celibacy? The abstinence from drugs and alcohol?
I say it is. Just give me a cricket bat and come and bring your head before me. La ila illaallah, you will see flashing lights!!
Ask anybody that has taken lsd or smoked igbo how easy it is to hallucinate.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 11:48pm On Feb 07|
Accomplishments? pray tell. All I can know is that he climbed a few hills.
No one can deny his many character failings, they ranged from extreme hostility to Christianity, misogyny, neglect of family, loss of friends through obnoxiousness, to megalomania and sado-masochistic tendencies, but we are often reminded that inspired wisdom is often socially condemned as insanity.
I'll have to take your word for that.
So is Bobby Henderson.
I take it now that for you spirituality is not an objective reality but rather different people have different models of what it is.
My point is a person might have attained to real mystical accomplishments yet retain base characteristics of their personality.
I couldn't disagree more. If your spiritual 'accomplishments' cannot be evidenced in your daily personality then you're just jiving.
I'll have to take your word for all this too. You had a mystical experience that showed you Crowley was a prophet. I see no evidence that he is. But if you say so ….
The man was not enamoured of money, his rituals may or may not have worked, what we do know is that he worked his way through two great inherited fortunes.
Yep, That great Mystical Cosmic Law remains immutable. The one about the Foo1 and his Money.
Now you sound like a deluded pentecostal claiming that you cannot understand his delusion unless you give yourself to it thoroughly.
Me I know one thing for sure in my life:
If I'm looking for Money, I can never go to a wretched pauper for advise
If I'm looking for Love, I can never go to the lonely man for advise
If I want to learn engineering, I will go to an engineer
If I want to learn medicine, I will look for a doctor
If I want to learn music, I'll seek to learn from a musician
If I want to learn Iwa Pele, I'll look for a humble man
etc etc etc, I'm sure you get my drift.
There is no way I'm going to chook my head inside a system whose founder has no qualities I admire. Furthermore a system that is widely known for it's practitioners ending up in the asylum. I even know personally of people who dabbled and they're in the nuthouse. Not to mention the more famous direct students of Crowley himself.
Crowley is nothing more than an example of the Sorcerer's apprentice. Playing with things that he doesn't understand, cannot handle, and ultimately destroys him. Like I said, it's very easy, too easy, to create an effect, any effect. Too easy to see colours, to meet beings, to visit planes etc. Anybody can pick up Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage and start destroying his life.
1 Like 1 Share
|Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 11:18pm On Feb 07|
though I didn't ask where to find it, or even that I was looking for it.
If one seeks God, the moment you “Seek”, then what you “Seek” becomes a part of your world, because “Seeking” is of the world. Therefore there are techniques to experience the Divine God but there are no intellectual understandings.
I'm happy to take your word for it.
I express Love all the time. I experience Love too.
Let me ask another way. You say that I can experience God. Would you also say that I can experience numerous other things too?
In that case, how would I distinguish the experience of God from the experience of other things?
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:04pm On Feb 07|
I looked it up. It stems mainly from Aquinas. I have some interesting questions I'd like to probe, but right now my head is in a different space.
I always raise a dubious eyebrow whenever I hear the word 'natural' cos I've never heard it defined by anyone. But please bear with me and I'll get back to you on this matter but the end of this coming week.
|Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 5:01pm On Feb 07|
Must God have a colour?
Anyway, the point still stands that foreign religion does not deprive you of awareness of your skin colour.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 4:51pm On Feb 07|
How do you reconcile the two aspects of your post which I've distinguished by marking them purple and brown.
How can a great mystic have the Great failing of an EGO?
How can a 'successful Mystic' still be pandering to his ego and completely fail to conquer his carnal mind?
Crowley was a man driven by his very basest drives. They totally dominated and controlled him. He never had any control over anything he did. He was driven by his fleshly addictions. Even to the point of being a junkie. What were the results of all his money making rituals? Did he ever make any money?
It is one thing to create an effect, any effect. It is quite another thing to create the right effect.
If you're into sensationalism and have a dilettantists approach then there are many effects that you can encounter. You will see many colours and go to many places. Heck, if you allow me to whack you over the head with a cricket bat I swear you will see stars! However to equate that with great mysticism would be a grievous error.
I wonder, what was so unbelievable about the asanas that Crowley came up with?
|Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 4:33pm On Feb 07|
I get you a little clearer now. However you must admit that there are a variety of subjective experiences and to accord names and terms to them it will be necessary to distinguish them from each other and to do so would require some sort of criteria (if not a definition). So what are the criteria that a subjective experience must have before you would call it a Godly experience?
|Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 2:35pm On Feb 07|
I don't think foreign religion has deprived us of an awareness of the colour of our skin.
|Religion / Re: God by PastorAIO: 2:34pm On Feb 07|
Please can you explain more by what you mean by this 'presence'.
I feel presences all the time. But I wouldn't call them God. Sometimes I feel a presence behind me and I turn around to find my sister approaching me. Or I might feel a presence, turn around and find nobody there. Maybe that is a discarnate presence.
Then sometimes I might walk into a room and feel a particular persons presence only for it to be confirmed that the person had just left 5 minutes before.
However jumping to the conclusion that felt presences are God is a bit too much of a jump for me.
Can you give us a succinct definition of God, or Divinity?
|Religion / Re: What Has Religion Done For Africa. by PastorAIO: 1:14pm On Feb 07|
Please, what is our real and true identity?
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:11pm On Feb 07|
Please what are the chances of failure, and the risks that come with failure, when one pursues mystical paths.
And, What do you think of people like Crowley, who to me is an obvious failed mystic in spite of his popularity?
How does one avoid ending up like people such as this?
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:04pm On Feb 07|
These phenomena are normal and common phenomena and it is about time we start to investigate them without the hullabaloo and mumbo jumbo of primitive religious/mystical ideas. They are all effects that can be initiated in the brain and can be switched on and off. We have to start studying these things scientifically.
Activity in one region of the brain could explain out-of-body experiences. Researchers in Switzerland have triggered the phenomenon using electrodes1.
People describe out-of-body experiences as feeling that their consciousness becomes detached from their body, often floating above it. Because these lucid states are popularly linked to the paranormal, "a lot of people are reluctant to talk about them", says neurologist Olaf Blanke of Geneva University Hospital in Switzerland.
Blanke found that electrically stimulating one brain region — the right angular gyrus — repeatedly triggers out-of-body experiences. Blanke and his team were using electrodes to excite the brain of a woman being treated for epilepsy.
It seems obvious to me that even what we call normality or reality is something that has just been constructed by the mind. One of the functions of the mind is to arrange experience according to a perspective. That perspective normally happens to be our body. So we experience reality happening from the point of view of where our body's are located. However that function can be disrupted and we begin to experience our environment from a perspective other than that of where our bodies are located. Finito!
If you like call it winchy or any outlandish term but at the end of the day it is just a perfectly normal explainable phenomena.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 12:24pm On Feb 07|
I'm sure you've heard of arbitrage.
And most recently you'd have heard of Libor rates fixing.
Glasses are not necessary. Only honesty. The arbitrager is not inventing anything or providing any service.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 10:37pm On Feb 05|
I was rude, and I apologise. It wasn't really intentional, but my turn of phrase includes phrases such as 'what nonsense ….'. It is something that I've worked to tone down in Nairaland but it still pops up now and then. I really do apologise and while I'll try to refrain from it, knowing myself I really can't promise that it won't happen again. But I'll have you know that the intention of it is not to antagonise.
My point was that it takes more than service and invention to make money and most times it doesn't even take invention and service at all.
Just go to any financial centre in the world to get my point.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 2:49pm On Feb 05|
The Shamans died in poverty? and few that remain went to Australia? How did they get to Australia and without any money?
How do you measure poverty sef?
But leave that one aside that's not of much interest. What nonsense are you saying here? let me repeat you:
the only way out of poverty is to provide a service or sell something
Who taught you such nonsense? Nikola Tesla that gave us the electricity that we are all using today (AC), didn't he die in poverty?
Tim Berners Lee that gave us the internet that we're all using today, how much money did he make from it? Zero.
Van Gogh whose paintings sell for millions today, didn't he die in poverty.
My bros there is no correlation between providing a service and escaping poverty.
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 12:16pm On Feb 04|
More questions on Natural Law.
Does the use of drugs for illness contravene natural law?
When a short sighted person uses Spectacles does he contravene natural law?
Does Agriculture contravene Natural law? Once man discovered that he could plant seeds and cultivate the growth, the surface of the earth changed. Instead of things growing naturally where they fell they were deliberately planted in plantations while other plants on the same field were uprooted as weeds. This had a debilitating effect on the soil. Was this an abuse of nature?
When God made the Sun stand still over Gibeon, was this contravening natural law? If so, then how come God can contravene natural laws but we shouldn't?
I've never heard of anything as vague and amorphous as this Natural Law. Please help.
|Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 11:50am On Feb 04|
You seem to have missed where I referred to the thousands of divergent denominations and asked how you know you're not being misled from your bible in light of these.
|Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 1:28am On Feb 04|
I don't think you've still got the main gist.
Nobody on this thread has questioned God or asked you to defend God.
The questions have been 'How do you know ….. '?
What has been called to question are YOUR claims about God? YOUR claims about heaven and hell. YOUR claims!!
They have no basis. You are just making stuff up and fantasising woefully.
The only thing that you've gotten right so far is that I want to question your convictions.
Yes, I want to question YOUR convictions. What are they based on? On the bible? then I asked a simple question. How are you sure that the bible cannot mislead you? After all it is the same bible that the thousands of different denominations with their conflicting doctrines are reading.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 1:09am On Feb 04|
Question. How long are you prepared to keep going for? Say, you've been at it for 12 months and you haven't met or conversed with anything,
how long before you'd give up? Or would you just keep going for the rest of your life?
How will you know HGA is HGA if and when something occurs? Your mind could be playing tricks on you.
|Religion / Re: The Secret Garden by PastorAIO: 5:34pm On Feb 03|
I'm all ears.
|Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:56pm On Feb 03|
Everything you know about Jesus is from the bible so all you are saying is that you choose to believe the bible.
The next question. How do you know the bible cannot mislead you?
|Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:53pm On Feb 03|
You missed the point completely. How is causing suffering just to glorified yourself okay? Her question was not why God would do so at all, but why he would use such a pathetic and heartless means to make such a cheap point such as self glorification.
Would God not be more glorified if no one was born with defects at all?
I'm reminded of a metaphor that Malcolm X once used that America expecting black people to be grateful is like someone sticking a 10 inch blade into your back, then pulling it out by 3 inches (remaining 7 inches still in your back), then expecting you to be grateful that they pulled it out a bit.
|Religion / Re: The Cycle Of The Human Life by PastorAIO: 12:44pm On Feb 03|
This earth is hellish enough for some but people like you are still clamouring for another hell fire after you die. You didn't see any, but out of your desire and wishful thinking you've fancied one up.
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:51am On Feb 03|
I'm curious about this natural law.
How is Natural Law determined?
What is natural law to be contrasted with? Supernatural Law? Or Artificial (man made) law?
Why is natural law held in such high esteem, over other laws (I presume that there are other laws)?
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 1:29pm On Jan 31|
I would appreciate a conversation rather than 3 words.
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 10:44am On Jan 31|
What is Natural family planning? Can you give me some examples of it's practices?
EDIT: Okay, I've just had to google it. it's about watching the menstrual cycle abi?
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 1:46am On Jan 31|
the only thing that comes to mind for me is Onanism, but the church already condemns that.
Sorry, I'm not a rocket scientist. Ultimately you've contributed nothing if you can't explain what you mean.
|Religion / Re: Challenge For Roman Catholic Doctrine by PastorAIO: 11:38pm On Jan 30|
What's that? would you care to make an exposition for us here.
|Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health |
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket
Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2016 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 648