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Religion / Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 6:00pm On Aug 18
Why would a ghost not be a natural phenomenon.?
Religion / Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 5:32pm On Aug 17
This sounds like poltergeists phenomena and it's more likely that the cause is the young lady rather than any entity in the house. From what little I know about such phenomena they are strongest around kids that are going through puberty.


butterflylion:


You still do not get it. Your opinion says the supernatural interacting with the natural is simply hallucinations but the atheists who experienced same say otherwise and I already gave a quote from one of such atheists and said her name is Sally Ulianich. Let me post one of her full experiences here.

.


She knows this house and she as well as others have a history of experiences in this house which defy explanation plus even new residents run away after a couple of years.

You desperately wish to move this discussion to proof or no proof of God don't you? Surely you can have a rational discussion without always ending up in God or no God argument can you not?
Religion / Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 5:25pm On Aug 17
I can say in this world there are Dingdongs and then there are superdingdongs.
I bet you'll be none the wiser though because I haven't defined a dingdong. If I say a superdingdong is something over and beyond a dingdong that will not help you because I haven't defined a dingdong as yet.

Ultimately we are discussions the mechanism of the universe. How things work? Many people believe that there is only one single principle underpinning the way all the universe works. We haven't discovered it yet but the search is on for the ToE, the Theory of Everything.
At the moment there are two known principles by which phenomena can be explained. Einsteins relativity theories and secondly quantum mechanics. These are both classified as 'natural' principles.

Even your example of atheists going to mediums doesn't suggest any other principles at work other than what we are commonly used to. Have you heard of cold reading? There are many techniques that seem like magic to those who are not in the know but they are all very common phenomena.





butterflylion:


Super in supernatural creates a gulf of separation from what natural is. Super is a higher form of natural which could be in non tangible spirit form to us but a perfectly tangible natural form to those in the supernatural.

Explaining anything does not erase what personal experiences explain themselves because the build up to these experiences are never the same and the experiences themselves are also never the same.

Atheists have declared houses haunted by ghosts because of their personal experiences and what others have truthfully witnessed about the same houses.

Atheists have submitted themselves to mediums who say they can communicate with spirits and these mediums have revealed deep dark secrets to them only known by them and also passed on messages from dead relatives which turned out to be true, etc.

Like I said, these are personal experiences but as long as God is not in the mix, an atheist is free to believe in anything.
Religion / Re: Atheists Who Believe In The Supernatural Please Come In(discussion) by PastorAIO: 4:13pm On Aug 17
tintingz:
Atheism does not end in lack in belief in god/gods but also supernatural, myths, legends, superstitions.

So, the question is, as an acclaimed atheist that believes in supernatural proof supernatural entities exist?

I believe you are conflating Naturalism with Atheism.

@OP, I think that your definition of natural might be circular. In fact I haven't heard of a rigorous definition of naturalism in all the long decades of my life.

Even those things you term as 'ghosts' etc are not necessarily supernatural or unnatural however you define it. Why? Because the brain, a 'natural' organ, 'naturally' works to create hallucinations all the time.

If you define natural as anything that can be explained with the knowledge we have then the fact that something seems supernatural may yet turn out to be quite natural once you've found a way to explain it.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 2:26pm On Aug 17
Without any sources for your claims there is no argument.

You say Daniel served under Cyrus. Where did you get this notion? I'm not aware of any text that supports this. Not even the bible.

The book of Daniel says that the king of Nabylon made Daniel leader of the Magi (wise men), but obviously the Magi in this case doesn't refer to Persian Zoroastrian priests. So there we have one example of the word magoi used to refer to wise men other than Zoroastrian priests. In fact the word is also used to refer to a Jewish sorcerer in Acts 13:6

The book of Daniel was only accurate up to the point it was written. All prophecies thereafter failed. That's how scholars know when it was written.




MuttleyLaff:



How can anyone forget that thread
Brilliant thread not to forget in a hurry
Being meaning to give it a re-visit asap

That, right there, is the clue.
The rule of thumb, is to always check, double check and cross check with each and all available translations out there, augmented with other credible and reliable great literary resources
and not be relying or depending on just one translation

and rightly so, as no one presumes Daniel to be a Zoroastrian
Daniel is a Magi and not a Zoroastrian

There isnt anything creepy in appropriating or trying to appropriate any or whatever religion, considering that, the adherents of the religion(s) accepts, admits the existence of Jesus and truth of about Him.

Avestan Religion? Isnt that a Freudian slip?
Why be vague, which Avestan Religion are you referring to?
Isn't Avestan a language originating from Persia?

The person you actually was addressing and Sarassin suffer each other gladly.
This is why both, air their divergent interpretations without rancour

Now, the person you actually was addressing didnt make such move in any previous thread.
Part of what I recall the person said, is that there's nothing wrong in ''borrowing'' and/or ''importing''
Also made another point, that the irony is that, the Magi must be privy to some sacred truth & knowledge for them to have journeyed and come to Bethlehem to worship God

The last sentence, that the Magi must be privy to some sacred truth & knowledge, is true because Daniel served in at least two Kings', Nebuchadnezzar and Cyrus; courts.
You seem to know this, as you've already accepted, by stating that, in the Book of Daniel, Daniel is called the leader of the Magi in Babylon
The Magi's source is strongly and likely from Daniel's sacred truth books & knowledge writings
and remotely from another's prophet; Balaam's Numbers 24:16-17 prophecy

Creepy attempt to legitimise Christianity?
Besides, the truth that christian (i.e. precursor to Christianity) is a contemptuous term, as good as the word, nigger, is,
why would anyone with the right sense be interested in re-legitimising a Roman invention state religion Christianity?
Also, no attempt or need to hitch Christianity onto Zoroastrianism
because fyi, the life of the chap, prophet Zarathushtra, known to the Greeks as Zoroaster, is based heavily on the life of Daniel.
What is Zoroastrianism named after sef?

The need for the Syriac Infancy Gospel is unneccesary because that prophecy was, in the Old Testament actually made by Daniel
Recall from above, that, the character Zoroaster is based heavily on the life of Daniel

He does make some noticeable and interesting points
but really needs to be tidying up his posts and/or improve his posting skills

He isnt guilty of extended verbosity at all
but rather is guilty of the misuse and abuse of carriage returns
Allowing next words, typed in his sentences, appearing dropped down on new lines, done unchecked or uncontrolled
is causing the passive white spaces expanse on the right hand-side margin
and contributing to the post becoming excessive in size or amount
It's not only torture to read but its painful, extensively scrolling down wasteful spaces on the right, to read post appearing on a left side margin only
Religion / Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 2:04pm On Aug 17
Sir, you are missing the point. As usual. I am not asking if Yahweh is equivalent to el shaddai or not.

Exodus 6:3 says Abraham did not know Yahweh by name.

Genesis 14:22 quotes Abraham as calling Yahweh by name.

So the question, wherein lies my point, is 'Did Abraham know Yahwehs name or not'? One of those 2 bible passages is a lie. Or maybe even both sef.

truthislight:


Because the same God that appeared to Abraham as EL-shaddai is the one that revealed himself to Moses as the one that appeared to Abraham Isasc and Jacob. Hence, the one that asked moses to write.

It therefore made sense that Moses identified him where ever in his writing whenever a reference to him YAHWHE is made.

Simple!

Peace.
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 1:32pm On Aug 13
oaroloye:
SHALOM!



Be careful of falsely accusing people, when talking about things that you are not familiar with.



"

Oga, you sef abeg try to take some of your own advice.

This issue has a history long before this thread.

Now frankly I was not directly aware of translations that used the word Magi. My kjv says 'wise men'.
And indeed the Greek word ''magoi ' is used to mean a wise man or an astrologer or a magician even. In the book of Daniel, daniel is called the leader of the Magi in Babylon. Most translations would say the leader of the wise men. No one presumes that Daniel was a Zoroastrian.

However I am aware of a creepy move to try to appropriate the dignity of Persian religion which was held in high regard. It is such a move that would lead someone to translate that word as Magi knowing thy the Magi are the priesthood of Avestan Religion.

The person I was actually addressing has already attempted to make such a move in a previous thread. Without knowledge of that you would have no idea of the context of the exchange or even of what is really being discussed.

This creepy attempt to legitimise Christianity by hitching it onto Zoroastrianism is a long historical thing. There was even a gospel written called the Syriac Infancy Gospel which claimed that Zoroaster the founder of Zoroastrianism prophecied jesus' coming and that was why the 3 wise men went in search of the king of the Jews.


ps. And please sir, it is not everything that someone is interested in that everyone else will want to share interest too. On many occasions I've tried to start conversations that no one responded to. I even started threads that didn't go beyond the OP. It is important to respect that. All these your extended verbosity that is so dire and tiresome is nothing short of an act of violence on, and wilful pollution of, this space we all share for the exchange of ideas even if we don't agree with each other most of the time.

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Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 5:52pm On Aug 11
But why would Matthew make up the story involving eastern wise men. Could their be some tradition in the east that he is trying to misappropriate?


Sarassin:


Leaving talk of airborne primates aside for a moment. And talking about this Magi business, we then have to face an obvious conundrum. It is Matthew who describes the visit of the Magi and the subsequent decision by the family to Flee to Egypt to escape Herod. Luke on the other hand says nothing about such a journey, not a hint about the Massacre of Innocents in fact he writes that the baby Jesus is presented at the temple (which would have taken place within 40 days of his birth). In addition, the adoration story of Luke 2 makes it clear that the annunciation was to shepherds, who in turn came to worship the baby Jesus, no mention of Magi.

Both stories are incompatible, if one is correct, the other is necessarily wrong, the possibility exists that both accounts are pious renderings and are entirely made up.
Religion / Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by PastorAIO: 5:24pm On Aug 11
MuttleyLaff:
Define sin

Does a template(s) mean anything to you at all?
What is a template?

I mean it in the sense found here:


16But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, imp
urity,
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 5:19pm On Aug 11
Good ness gracious, so the monkey is actually capable of going to the bible to dig out a chapter and verse. Well done. I'll bear it I. Mind from now on that you have this skill.

MuttleyLaff:
1After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea,
during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east arrived in Jerusalem,
2asking, “Where is the One who has been born King of the Jews?
We saw His star in the east and have come to worship Him.”
3When King Herod heard this, he was disturbed, and all Jerusalem with him

- Matthew 2:1-3

Eyahh, peele, missing and looking for your long lost cousin, are you?
Though sometimes, I wish I was a monkey
so I could throw poop at deserving people like you and it would be legit
but thank your stars, I am not
and I aint the one you're looking for

Now put up or shut up with Matthew 2:1-3 above
Continue and make me unleash your cousin flying monkeys on you
Religion / Re: Man Was Inclined To Committing Sin Even Before Eating The Forbidden Fruit by PastorAIO: 5:06pm On Aug 11
Did I not read that the flesh is inclined to sin? Is so, and Adam was flesh then the sin was already inherent in his fleshly nature.

Further more there will be no salvation from sin cos the will be a resurrection of the flesh, which means a resurrection of sinful nature.


chemystery:
We are familiar with the genesis account of the original sin which made us believe that sin originated after Adam and Eve must have consumed the fruit from the forbidden tree.

If one should carry out a proper analysis of this story, one would realise that man was inclined to committing sin even before eating the forbidden fruit. Reason being that the act of disobedience came in first before the consumption of the fruit. Meaning there was an inclination of committing sin even before the fruit was eaten.

It also means that there is equal tendency of Adam to disobey god as well when he was instructed to name all the animals had it been Satan also tempted him not to.

In conclusion,

Disobedience (sin/imperfection) made man eat the fruit

and NOT

eating the fruit that made man disobey.

Why then do Christians say god created man perfect/sinless until the forbidden fruit was consumed when there is that tendency for man to do anything against god when tempted by the devil?
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 4:30pm On Aug 11
MuttleyLaff:

You must be having a laugh with this rash hasty reply and verse.

I expect to see your rottweiler out soon. Kikiki


I am not impressed by your knee-jerk reaction short of substance replies.
You know, you don't necessarily have to, for the sake of it, immediately reply back

Apollonius of Tyana sprang to your mind?
Yeah? But it didnt register in your mind, that Apollonius of Tyana was a contemporary of Jesus, yet, not a diddly-squat of Magi from the East, turned up to pay him obeisance, talkless, worship him

Exactly,
and you do accept that, it all revolves around and centres on the Father
It is about everything and all that has to do with God's interest


Who told this monkey that any Magi came to bow down to baby Jesus?
Which verse of the bible said magi bowed to Jesus. And if it is not from the bible then which other dubious source did you conjure this misinformation from.
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 4:26pm On Aug 11
MuttleyLaff:


Talk of the devil
Now that you've turned up,
why dont you, for the avoidance of any doubt,
slam an ''out of order'' sticker on your forehead and call it a day
Mtcheeewwww...

The day you will actually address an issue with relevant points instead of memes and insults and preening about like you know more than is capable of coming out of your mouth, that day we will sacrifice a whole malu in my village.

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Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 2:20pm On Aug 11
MuttleyLaff:
It's your point of view, your perspective, your posturing, I am interested in and not necessarily others

It is quite fascinating that this one will still be jaunting around and even tell other people that they are 'posturing'.

This is truly a wonderful world and Homo sapiens sapiens is truly a wonderful species.
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 9:42am On Aug 10
Please where does it say, in the bible or outside the bible, that Magi came to worship Jesus?
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 12:36pm On Aug 08
malvisguy212:
yes, my faith is not the result of my good work, it is the result of " work" accomplished by someone.


I didn't say faith is a result of good work.ler me repeat what I said:

I said that works are a necessary expression of true faith without which you know that True Faith doesn't exist.
No smoke, no damp fire .
No works, no Faith.

Smoke doesn't cause fire but smoke is a sure sign of fire.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 12:31pm On Aug 08
malvisguy212:
Abraham had no one to prove his Faith is real. but when James use Abraham as an example of a saving Faith, the audience in James 2 and the readers understand his point........I cannot draw a 3HD drawing on a 2HD screem.

You are the one that said the sole purpose of works is to impress and vindicate yourself before other men.

I'm trying to show that this cannot be true as there was no one present when Abraham attempted to slaughter Isaac.

Abraham didn't do it to impress anyone but it was an act that flowed necessarily out of his Faith.

I repeat, works flow out necessarily and subsequently to True Faith.
Religion / Re: Spirit Lives by PastorAIO: 6:21pm On Aug 07
How come so many people want to assassinate you? Wetin you do them?


Ken4Christ:
The spirit world is real and there are spirits we do not usually see with our optical eyes except by visions and revelations. However, the Scripture warns we should text every spirit. Not all spirits are from God. Any spirit that does not direct your attention to Jesus is not from God.

Some of what people practice as posted on this thread is occultism. Please desist from it and give your life to Jesus and receive the most powerful spirit - The Holy Spirit. There is no supernatural power that is greater than the power of the Holy Ghost. It does not just give you the power to see things ahead, it also gives you the ability to change things you don't want to happen which has already been revealed to you.

I have escaped several assassination attempt by the power of the Holy Spirit because I saw them coming before they happen and prayerfully averted it.

I have been delivered from ghastly motor accidents also which I saw ahead.

Our Lord Jesus said,

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and HE WILL SHEW YOU THINGS TO COME.

It is safer to have supernatural encounter with the Holy Spirit than with evil spirits. The evil spirits sometimes disguise as good spirits but the only to tell the difference is with the word of God. Do the spirit ignite your passion for God and Jesus.

Please, avoid all the philosophical teachings that emanated from eastern religion. They will put you in bigger bondage. But Jesus will set you completely free. Shalom.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:55pm On Aug 07
malvisguy212:
the key word here is " work" what is your understanding of work ? is it " work is the means of Salvation" or " the evidence of Faith"
if its the means of salvation, the answer to your question is no. but if its the evidence of faith, your answer is yes.

It is the evidence of faith.

Furthermore it is a Necessary evidence of faith.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:54pm On Aug 07
malvisguy212:
circumcision fall among the category of ceremonial law.........the error Paul correct is that salvation is by the working of the law.........the error James correct, work is unnecessary after a person is save.James wrote how a believer can show his faith ( (justification or vindication before men) so circumcision is NOT the means of salvation, is the evidence of faith ( the necessity of the believer to show that his faith is real, not a dead faith.

So in your understanding which men were Abraham attempting to demonstrate his faith to when he attempted to slaughtering Isaac?

You seem to think works of faith are just for impressing other people, or to vindicate yourself before them.

James' letter suggests to me that the works are a necessary expression of the faith.

That's like saying that a necessary property of triangles is to have a sum of angles equal to 180 degrees. If you hear of a geometric structure whose angles don't add up to 180 degrees then you'll know for sure that it can't be a triangle.

The essence and the expression are inseparable.

Furthermore circumcision was established with Abraham long before mosaic law was established.
Religion / Re: Is The Hebrew Monotheistic Belief A Product Of Religious Syncretism? by PastorAIO: 3:08pm On Aug 07
I think that this thread amply demonstrates that some people are here to share learn knowledge while other people, who are best ignored, are merely here to boost their egotism. These people don't have anything to offer anyone, rather they'll distract to and derail you.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:58pm On Aug 07
In other words are these 'works if the law' essentials parts of the Faith without which there is no faith.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:57pm On Aug 07
malvisguy212:
faith is not alone, work is the evidence of a saving faith. work in this in this context is not the means of salvation because the save is already saved, when he does good work, he is only proving the evidence of his faith OUTWARDLY.

Galatians 5:6 say " For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith EXPRESSING itself in love."

James and Paul agreed here. Paul: " when you have faith in Christ Jesus" . James: " you must express the faith in love" a saving faith is accompanied by good work.

As indeed Abraham attempted to sacrifice his son as a demonstration of his faith, a demonstration without which the faith is dead...
Can we also say that the act of circumcision is a demonstration of Faith, a act without which we know that the Faith is dead?
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 2:38pm On Aug 02
owoleola:
Okay,may be i should just ask,what is wrong with Paul's teachings?.....,mention one

Are you not following the thread?

1 Like

Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 9:28am On Aug 02
In fact it is obvious from reading the bible that the letters of Paul were already creating such a problem for the Jerusalem based church that not only does the letter of James tackle it, but also the letters of Peter.

just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17Therefore, beloved, since you already know these things, be on your guard not to be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure standing.…


Syncan:



He is right in what he is portraying, your position isn't easy to support convincingly using bible alone, more passages could be thrown up from Paul, seemingly championing "faith alone", yet James completely destroyed that line of thought. That's the flaw in the claim that we use bible to interpret bible. Your Position is true only in the eye of faith in the infallibility of the Church, which has declared both Paul and James writings as inspired. Trusting in her wisdom, we search for the reason why she ignored such a seeming contradiction. That's when propositions like yours surfaces, and looking through the eye of the church at other scripture passages and oral traditions, are acceptable to the faithful.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 11:20pm On Aug 01
Is the faith alone or is it not alone?


jnrbayano:


Paul sighted Abraham's early stage in his walk with God.

James sighted Abraham's later stage (after sacrificing Isaac)

Two different period in Abraham's life. James is complementary to Paul and never a contradiction.

Paul=Faith alone saves (coming from an impure state and doesn't require "works of the law" )

James= The faith that saves is not alone (it requires the "work of faith" to validate the presence of such saving faith)

They both talked about same faith but different works.

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Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 11:11pm On Aug 01
LoJ:

PastorAIO has a huge point here.

If Peter could be wrong, what prevents Paul from erring too?

I'm not ranking apostles either. What I said is that since Peter got it wrong is it also possible that Paul got it wrong too? Or did Paul have a special anointing of the spirit that Peter didn't have.

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Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:12pm On Aug 01
Since Peter can miss it, I wonder, is it ever possible for Paul to miss it. Both of them having the same Holy Spirit.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 9:11am On Aug 01
Wilgrea7:


nice point.. the only other forms of Christianity i could remember then were the Christian gnostics.. obviously the early fathers had a major problem with them because some of them didn't acknowledge the existence of Jesus and were trying to make it all symbolic... basically, it seems that books like peter, 123 john were written either in opposition to or in support of a particular view

A common view in early christianity was called docetism. Docetism influenced gnosticism greatly. Although the groups we call gnostics were mainly a 2nd century phenomenon, their ideas already existed from the early days of christianity. Docetism is a main one.

Johannine christianity was in conflict with the Docetics. That is why when you read the letters of john it will make more sense once you realise that there were many christians who were docetics.

Docetism believes that Christ was not physical flesh when he came but maintained a heavenly essence so that all we saw was an apparition. It also affected Islam later a bit with the idea that Christ could not have been crucified but it was an illusion that got crucified.

the Johannites attacked this view. e.g.

1Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God. For many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2By this you will know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
1st John chapt 4

Obviously many of John's disciples were being lured by docetic teachings and he was reacting to that.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.

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Religion / Re: What If God Is Sleeping And Life As We Know It Is Just His Dream? by PastorAIO: 5:16am On Jul 31
okeyxyz:
@OP

So what if god is asleep and this life is his dream...
So what is your point? What are you trying to establish??

A point would be that the name of God would be Vishnu.

And the Indians worked it out a long time ago.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 5:06am On Jul 31
Let us try to avoid empty rhetorics and hot air without substance. If we could just deal with the facts as we are made aware of them.
Religion / Re: Between Jesus And Paul, Who Founded Christianity And It Doctrines. by PastorAIO: 3:57pm On Jul 30
ITbomb:

OYO lol

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