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Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 5:05pm On Sep 30
JMAN05:

You ve never shown any prove that he didnt make a retraction. You just made a statement that you want me to believe by faith. Sorry. case closed till you tender your evidence.

Please, JMAN05, does a contradictory pair of lists mean there is no apostolic succession.
Religion / Re: What Is Existentialism? by PastorAIO: 2:38pm On Sep 29
OLAADEGBU:

Can you give instances where I have been a culprit?

I could if I had the time and energy. I don't have the time or energy for that. those who know you know what you're like.

1 Like

Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 2:33pm On Sep 29
JMAN05:

Compare the Alzog's Handbuch der Kirchengeschichte (9th ed. 1872) with the Gerarchia Cattolica listing. it is glaring that there is a disharmony.

Statements of church writers are entirely irreconcilable, and it is impossible to establish with any degree of certainty the order in which they follow each other, yrs of accession, and even yrs of death.


You are a very wicked man!! See as you give me work. I've trawled the internet looking for the lists. I read references to the book but I've only found one list. That of the Alzog's handbuch whatever. I'll paste it below. I wanted to compare the lists by putting them parallel to each other. Anyway, no wahala. (since you have been reluctant to produce the lists yourself would that suggest that you yourself haven't compared the lists but rather you just read an accusation on some website and swallowed it hook line and sinker? That is not an issue anyway, just a thought that occurred to me.)

I could only find one list but I found other things about the books. First this:


The Roman "Gerarchia Cattolica", not an authoritative work, which prior to 1906 contained a chronological list of the popes, designated Alexander V as the 211th pope, succeeding Gregory XII, resigned.
From here: https://www.wordnik.com/words/Gerarchia

How do you compare an authoritative work to a non authoritative work and then claim something dubious when they don't tally?

Then I found this:
Owing, chiefly, to the fact that during what is called the Great Schism of the West, there were sometimes several claimants to the Holy See, only one of whom could be the lawful successor of St. Peter, authorities differ concerning the correct list of the Popes. Some reckon that Pius XI is the two hundred and sixty-first successor of St. Peter. –Joseph Deharbe, S.J., A Complete Catechism of the Catholic Religion, Sixth American Edition, © 1912/1919/1924 Scwartz, Kirwin & Fauss, p. 68; Book has Nihil Obstat of Very Rev. Edmund T. Shanahan, D.D., Catholic University of America; and Imprimitur of John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York.
from here: http://www.lazyboysreststop.org/pope-20.htm

This suggests that the discrepancies occurred at much later dates that what we are talking about. We are talking about the early church, especially about the immediate successors to Peter.

But having said all that, That is not really the part of this discussion that interests me.

Please, ejor, Is it the matter of discrepancies in the lists that is the basis of your rejection of catholicism and the Apostolic succession? Please explain to me why a discrepancies must necessarily mean that the whole issue is false and must be discarded. thank you.


The following is the lists of popes that I found online from the Alzog Handbuch:



1. St. Peter, M... Bethsaida in Galilee 42-67

2. St. Linus, M... Volterra...   67-78

3. St. Cletus, M... Rome... 78-90

4. St. Clement I, M… Rome… 90-100

5. St. Anacletus, M…Athens… 100-112

6. St. Evaristus, M… Syria…112-121

7. St. Alexander I, M… Rome… 121-132

8. St. Sixtus I. M… Rome… 132-142

9. St. Telesphorus, M… Greece… 142-154

10. St. lyginlus, M… Greece… 154-158

11. St. Pius I, M… Aquileja … 158-167

12. St. Anicetus, M… Syria… 167-175

13. St. Soterus, M…Campania… 175-182

14. St. Eleutherius, M… Epirus… 182-193

15. St. Victor I, M… Africa… 193-203

16. St. Zephyrinns, M… Rome… 203-220

17. St. Calixtus I, M… Rome… 221-227

18. St. Urban I, M… Rome… 227-233

19. St. Pontianus, M… Rome… 233-238

20. St. Anterus, M… Greece…238-239

21. St. Fabian, M… Rome… 240-253

22. St. Cornelius, M… Rome… 254-255 [Novatian, first antipope.]

23. St. Lucius I, M… Rome… 255-257

24. St. Stephen I, M… Rome… 257-260

25. St. Sixtus II, M… Athens… 260-261

26. St. Dionysius… Italy… 261-272

27. St. Felix I. M… Rome… 272-275

28. St. Eltychianus… Tuscany… 225-283

29. St. Caius, M… Dalmatia… 283-296

30. St. Marcellinus, M… Rome… 296-304

31. St. Miarcellus I, M… Rome…304-309

32. St. Esebius… Calabria… 309-311

33. St. Melchiades…. Africa… 311-314

34. St. Sylvester… Rome… 314-337

35. St. Malrcus… Rome… 337-340

36. St. Jillius I… Rome… 341-352

37. St. Liberius… Rome… 352-363

38. St. Felix II… Rome… 363-365

39. St. Darnass... Spain... 366-384 [Ursicinus, antipope.]

40. St. Siricius... Rome... 384-398

41. St. Anastasius... Rome… 399-402

42. St. Innocet I... Albano... 402-417

43. St. Zosim... Greece... 417-418

44. St. Boniface I... Rome... 418-423

45. St. Celestine I... Campania... 423-432

46. St. Sixts III... Rome... 432-440

47. St. Leo I, the Great... Tuscany... 440-461

48. St. Hilary... Cagilari... 461-468

49. St. Simplicius... Tivoli... 468483

50. St. Felix II... Rome... 483492

51. St. Gelasius I... Africa... 492-496

52. St Anastasius II... Rome... 496-498

53. St. Symnachus... Rome... 498-514

54. St. Hormisdas... Frosinone... 514-523

55. St. John I, M... Tuscany... 523-526

56. St. Felix IV... Benevet... 526-530

57. Boniface II... Rome...       530-532

58. John II... Rome... 532-535

59. St. Agapetus I... Rome... 535-536

60. St. Sylverius, M... Frosinone... 536-538

61. Vigilius... Rome... 538-555

62. Pelagius I... Rome... 555-560

63. John III... Rome... 560-573

64. Benedict I... Rome... 574-578

65. Pelagius II... Rome... 578-590

66. St. Gregory I, the Great. Rome... 50-604

67. Sabiniaus... Volterra... 604-606

68. Boniface III... Rome... 607-607

69. St. Boniface IV... The Marches... 608-615

70. St. Adeodatus I... Rome... 615-619

71. Boniface V... Naples... 619-625

72. Honorins I... Campania... 625-638

73. Severinus... Rome... 640-640

74. John IV... Dalmatia... 640-642

75. Theodorus I... Greece... 642-649

76. St. Martin, M... Todi... 649-655

77. St. Engenius I... Rome... 655-656

78. St. Vitalianus... Segi... 657-672

79. Adeodatus II... Rome... 672-676

80. Donus I... Rome... 676-678

81. St. Agathon... Greece... 678-682

82. St. Leo II... Sicily... 682-683

83. St. Benedict II... Rome... 684-685

84. John V... Antiochia... 685-686

85. Conon... Thrace... 686-687

86. St. Sergis I... ?... 687-701

87. John VI... Greece... 701-705

88. John VII... Greece... 705-707

89. Sisinnius... Syria... 708-708

90. Constantine... Syria... 708-715

91. St. Gregory II... Rome... 715-731

92. St. Gregory III... Syria... 731-741

93. St. Zachary... Greece... 741-752

94. St. Stephen II... Rome... 752-752

95. Stephen III... Rome... 752-757

96. St. Paul I... Rome... 757-767

97. Stephen IV... Syracuse... 768-771

98. Adrian I... Rome... 771-795

99. St. Leo III... Rome ... 795-816

100. Stephen V... Rome... 816-817

101. St. Paschal I... Rome... 817-824

102. Eugenius II... Rome... 824-827

103. Valentiuns... Rome... 827-827

104. Gregory IV... Rome... 827-844

105. Sergius II... Rome... 844-847

106. St. Leo IV... Rome... 847-855 [Fabulous antipope Joan.]

107. Benedict III... Rome... 855-858

108. St. Nicholas I, the Great… Rome... 858-867

109. Adrian II... Rome... 867-872

110. John VIII... Rome... 872-882

111. Marinus I... Gallese...     882-884

112. Adrian III... Rome... 884-885

113. Stephen VI... Rome... 885-891

114. Formosus... Ostia... 891-896 [Sergius, antipope.]

115. Boniface VI... Rome... 896-96

116. Stephen VII... Rome... 897-898

117. Romanus... Gallese... 898-898

118. Theodorus II... Gallese...  898-898

119. John IX... Tivoli... 898-900

120. Benedict IV... Rome... 900-903

121. Leo V... Ardea... 903-903

122. Christopher... Rome... 903-904

123. Sergius III... Rome... 904-911

124. Anastasius III... Rome... 911-913

125. Lando... Sabine... 913-914

126. John X... Ravenna... 915-928

127. Leo VI... Rome... 928-929

128. Stephen VIII... Rome... 929-931

129. John XI... Rome... 931-936

130. Leo VII... Rome... 936-939

131. Stephen IX... Rome... 939-942

132. Marinus II... Rome... 943-946

133. Agapetus II... Rome... 946-956

134. John XI*... Rome... 956-964 (Octavian Conti.) [Leo 8:antipope.]

135. Benedict V... Rome... 964-965

136. John XIII... Rome... 96S-972 (Bishop John of Ravenna.)

137. Benedict VI... Rome... 972-973

138. Donus II... Rome... 973-975

139. Benedict VII... Rome ... 975-984 (Conti, bishop of Sutri.)

140. John XIV... Pavia... 984-985 (Peter, bishop of Pavia.)

141. Boniface VII... ?...        985-985 (Cardinal Boniface Franco.)

142. John XV... Rome... 985-996

143. John XVI... ... 996-996

144. Gregory V... Germany... 996-999 (Bruno, court chaplain of the emperor.)

145. John XVI... ?... 999-999

146. Sylvester II... France... 999-1003 (Gerbert.) * The first pope who changed his name on ascending the papal throne.

147. John XVIII... Rome... 1003-1003

148. John XIX... Rome... 1003-1009

149. Sergius IV... Rome... 1009-1012

150. Benedict VIII... Rome... 1012-1024 (Conti.)

151. John XX... Rome... 1024-1033 (Conti, a brother of the preceding.)

152. Benedict IX ... Rome... 1033-1044 (Theophylact, nephew of the two preceding.) [Sylvester, antipope.]

153. Gregory VI... Rome... 1044-1046 (Archpriest John Gratianus.)

154. Clement II... Germany... 1046-1048 (Bishop Suidger of Bamlberg.)

155. Damasus II... Germany... 1048-1048 (Bishop Pappo of Brixen.)

156. St. Leo IX... Germany... 1049-1055 (Bishop Bruno of Toul.)

157. Victor II... Germany... 1055-1057 (Bishop Gebhard of Eichstidt.)

158. Stephen X... Germany... 1057-1058 (Abbot Frederick of Montecassino.)

159. Benedict X... .?... 1058-1059 (John Mincius Conti, bishop of Velletri.)

160. Nicholas II... France... 1059-1061 (Bishop Gerard of Florence.)

161. Alexander II... Milan... 1061-1073 (Anselm Badagio, bishop of Lucca.)

162. St. Gregory VII... Soana... 1073-1085 (Cardinal Hildebrand.) [Clement III, antipope.]

163. Victor III... Benevent... 1087-1087 (Desiderius, duke of Capua, abbot of Montecassino.)

164. Urban II... France... 1088-1099 (Otto de Lagers, cardinal-bishop of Ostia.)

165. Paschal II... Bieda... 1099-1118 (Cardinal Rainer.) [Albert and Theodoric, antipopes.]

166. Gelasius II... Gaeta... 1... 1118-1119 (Cardinal Johannes Cajetani.)

167. Calixtus II... France...1119-1124 (Guido, count of Burgundy, archbishop of Vienne.)

168. Honorius II... Bologna... 1124-1130 (Lambert, cardinal-bishop of Ostia.)

169. Innocent I... Rome... 1130-1143 (Cardinal Glegory Papy.) [Anacletus, antipope.]

170. Celestine II... Citta di Castello... 1143-1144

171. Lucius II... Bologna... 1144-1145 (Cacciauemici)

172. B. Eugenius III... Montemagno... 1145-1153 (Bernardus, abbot at Rome.)

173. Anastasius IV... Rome... 1153-1154

174. Adrian IV... England... 1154-1159

175. Alexander III... Siena... 1159-1181 (Roland Bandinelli.) [Victor, Paschal, and Callixtus, antipopes.]

176. Lncius III... Lucca... 1181-1185

177. Urban III... Milan... 1185-1187 (Bishop Humbert of Milan.)

178. Gregory VII... Beneventum... 1187-1187

179. Clemelnt III... Rome... 1187-1191

180. Celestinie III... Rome... 1191-1198

181. Innocent III... Anagni. ... .1198-1216 (Cardinal Conti.)

182. Honorius III... Rome... 1216-1227 (Savelli.)

183. Gregoury IX... An agni... 1227-1241 (Conti.)

184. Celestine IV... Milan... 1241-1241 (Castislione.)

185. Innocent IV... Genoa... 1243-1254 (Fieschi.)

186. Alexander IV... Anagni... .1254-1261 (Conti.)

187. Urban IV... France... 1261-1264 (Jacob Pantalean, patriarch of Jerusalem.)

188. Clement IV... France... 1265-1269 (Guido Fulcodi.)

189. B. Gregory X... Piacenza... 1271-1276 (Theobald Visconti, archdeacon at Liuge.)

190. Innocent V... ... Savoy... 1276-1276 (Peter de Tarantaise.)

191. Adrian V... Genoa... 1276-1276 (Fieschi.)

192. John XXI... Portugal... 1276-1277 (Peter Julian, bishop of Tusculum.)

193. Nicholas III... Rome... 1277-1280 (Cardinal John Cajetan Orfini.)

194. Martin IV... France... 1281-1285 (Simon de Brie.)

195. Honorius IV... Rome... 1285-1287 (Savelli.)

196. Nicholas IV... A... Ascoli... .1288-1292 (Cardinal Jerome, bishop of Tusculum.)

197. St. Celestine V... Isenia... .1294-1294 (Peter, an eremite.)

198. Boniface VIII... Anagni... 1294-1303 (Benedict Cajetan.)

199. B. Benedict XI... Treviso... 1303-1304 (Boccasini.)

200. Clement V... France... 1305-1314 (De Gout, archbishop of Bordeaux.)

201. John XXII... France... 1316-1334 (Cardinal Jacob de Esne.) [Nicholas, antipope.]

202. Benedict XII... France... 1334-1342 (Cardinal Jacob Fournier.)

203. Clement VI... France... 1342-1352 (Cardinal Peter Roger.)

204. Innocent VI... France... .1352-1362 (Cardinal Stephen Aubert.)

205. B. Urban V... France... 1362-1370 (Abbot at Marseilles.)

206. Gregory XI... France... 1370-1378 (Cardinal Peter Roger.)

207. Urban VI... Naples... 1378-1389 (Prignano, archbishop of Bari.) [From 1378 to 1410 occurs the great Western Schism, during which, in conflict with the line of popes inserted in the catalogue, is found a rival line residing at Avignon-Clement VII 1378-1394; Benedict XIII 1394-1410. The Council of Pisa, 1410, deposed both rival popes; but Benedict XIII remained in schism till his death in 1424.]

208. Boniface IX... Naples... 1389-1404 (Cardinal Peter Tomacelli.)

209. Innocent VII... Sulmona... .1404-1406 (Migliorati.)

210. Gregory XII... Venice... 1406-1409 (Coriario.)

211. Alexander V... Bologna... 1409-1410 (Cardinal Peter Philargi.)

212. John XXIII... Naples... 1410-1415 (Cardinal Cossa.)

213. Martin V... Rome... 1417-1431 (Cardinal Otto Colonna.)

214. Eugenius IV... Venice... 1431-1447 (Condulmero.) [Felix, antipope.]

215. Nicholas V... Sarzana... .1447-1455 (Thomas de Sarzano.)

216. Calixtus III... Spain... 1455-1458 (Cardinal Alphons Borgia.)

217. Pius II... Sieia... 1458-1464 (AEneas Sylvius Piccolomini.)

218. Paul II... Venice... 1464-1471 (Barbo.)

219. Sixtus IV... Savona... 1471-1484 (Cardinal Francesco della Rovere.)

220. Innocent VIII... Genoa... 1484-1492 (Cardinal John Baptist Cibo.)

221. Alexander VI... Spain... .1492-1503 (Cardinal Rodrigo Borgia.)

222. Pius III... Siena... 1503-1503 (Cardinal Francis Piccolomini.)

223. Julius II... Savona...1503-1513 (Cardinal Rovere.)

224. Leo X... Florence... 1513-1521 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

225. Adrian VI... Netherlands... 1522-1523 (Adrian Florent.)

226. Clement VII... Florence... 1523-1534 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

227. Paul III... Rome... 1534-1549 (Cardinal Alexander Farnese.)

228. Julius III... Tuscany... 1550-1555 (Cardinal del Monte.)

229. Marcellus II... Montepulciano... 1555-1555 (Cardinal Cervino.)

230. Paul IV... Naples... 1555-1559 (Cardinal Caraffa.)

231. Pius IV... Milan... 1559-1565 (Cardinal de' Medici.)

232. St. Pins V... Bosco... 1566-1572 (Michael Ghisleri, cardinal of Alessandria.)

233. Gregory XIII... Bologna... 1572-1585 (Cardinal Hugo Buoncompagno.)

234. Sixtus V... Marchigiano... 1585-1590 (Felix Peretti, cardinal Montalto.)

235. Urban VII... Rome... 1590-1590 (Cardinal Castagna.)

236. Gregory XIV... Cremona... 1590-1591 (Cardinal Sondrati.)

237. Innocent IX... Bologna... 1591-1592 (Cardinal Fachinetti.)

238. Clement VIII... Florence... 1592-1605 (Cardinal Aldobrandini.)

239. Leo XI... Florence... 1605-1605 (Cardinal Octavian de' Medici.)

240. Paul V... Rome... 1605-1621 (Cardinal Camillo Borghese.)

241. Gregory XV... Bologna... 1621-1623 (Cardinal Alexander Ludovisio.)

242. Urban VIII... Florence... 1623-1644 (Cardinal Maffeo Barberini.)

243. Innocent X... Rome... 1644-1655 (Cardinal John Pamfili.)

244. Alexander VII... Siena... 1655-1667 (Cardinal Fabio Chigi.)

245. Clement IX... Pistoia... 1667-1669 (Cardinal Rospigliosi.)

246. Clement X... Rome ... .1670-1676 (Cardinal Altieri.)

247. Innocent XI... Cono... 1676-1689 (Cardinal Benedict Odescalchi.)

248. Alexander VIII... Venice... 1689-1691 (Cardinal Peter Ottoboni.)

249. Innocent XII... Naples... .1691-1700 (Cardinal Anthony Pignatelli.)

250. Clement XI... Urbino... 1700-1721 (Cardinal Albani.)

251. Innocent XIII... Rome... 1721-1724 (Cardinal Conti.)

252. Benedict XIII... Rome... 1724-1730 (Cardinal Orsini.)

253. Clement XII... Floence... 1730-1740 (Cardinal Colsini.)

254. Benedict XIV... Bologna... .1740-1758 (Cardinal Prosper Lambertini.)

255. Clement XIII... Venice... 1758-1769 (Cardinal Rezzonico.)

256. Clement XIV... St. Angelo in Vado…1769-1774 (Cardinal Gianganelli.)

257. Pius VI... Cesena... 1775-1799 (Cardinal Braschi.)

258. Pius VII... Cesena... 1800-1823 (Cardinal Chiaramonte.)

259. Leo XII... Spoleto... 1823-1829 (Cardinal della Genga.)

260. Pius VIII... Cingoli... .1829-1830 (Cardinal Castiglione.)

261. Gregory XVI... Belluno... 1831-1846 (Cardinal Mauro Capellari.)

262. Pius IX... Siniagli... 1846-1878 (Cardinal Mastai Ferretti.)

263. Leo XIII... Carpinetto... 1878 (Cardinal Gioacchino Pesci.)

https://bible.prayerrequest.com/7914-mcclintock-john-strong-james-cyclopedia/39315/


Regards.
Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 12:35pm On Sep 29
JMAN05:

The apostles never gave any list. In short, by the 2nd century, no one knows anything like Pope in christianity. Your so called apostolic fathers do not all agree on the Popes and the listing.



please can you expantiate on this part. Are their discrepancies in the lists of popes, and is this why you deny the apostolic lineage? Can you provide us with the varying lists? Thank you in advance.
Religion / Re: If The Old Testament Is Of A Perfect God, Why The New Testament?? by PastorAIO: 2:21am On Sep 29
alexleo:

Revelations 13;8.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

The above scripture shows that the redemption plan(death of Jesus) was planned together along side with the creation plan.

The new testament wasnt an after thought for God.


It didn't say that Jesus death was planned at the beginning. It says that it happened at the beginning.
Religion / Re: Have Your Pastor Addressed The SCOAN Tragedy? by PastorAIO: 9:11pm On Sep 28
dorox: When disasters happens, especially one that is close to home it is the usual practice for pastors to talk about it and ask members to pray for those who are directly affected by the disaster. But in the wake of the SCOAN building collapse it appears that most pastors are carrying on with their business like they did not just lose one of their own. So i would like to know if your pastor have asked for your prayers with regards to those who died and those who are receiving treatment as a result of that tragedy.

This matter is too close to their business. When you see roforofo it is better to avoid it lest it splash on you.
Religion / Re: Have Your Pastor Addressed The SCOAN Tragedy? by PastorAIO: 9:10pm On Sep 28
Gombs: l

[NLT] 1 Thessalonians 4:11 Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before.

cool



grin grin grin Classic!!
Religion / Re: Who Wrote The New Testament? by PastorAIO: 6:29pm On Sep 28
SMALLPENIS:

bro, I understand your type, just try to have a personal relationship with God,
can you explain how I see visions (WHICH ALWAYS COME TRUE) , I once didn't believe a god existed, till he revealed himself to me.

Precognitive visions happen to many people, myself included. If it were tied directly to a particular God then how would you explain people following a different religion and different God still having precognitive visions. It happens regardless of your God or religion.

I used to think it was connected to spiritual disciplines ( and maybe it still is) but I noticed that I could get them sometimes when I was at my most spiritually degenerate phase, while other times when I'm 'very spiritual' I do not get them at all. Not to mention the fact that I have no control over them and it is what comes that comes whether it is relevant to my life or not. If I could control it I would be winning the lottery every week. Instead I see where my old discarded slippers are.

The fact is that we live in a mysterious universe of which we haven't scratched the tip of the iceberg of understanding. Maybe the explanation for precognitive visions can be explained scientifically. We can speculate and speculate and speculate but the fact that they happen does not necessarily point to any God or religion.

1 Like

Religion / Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by PastorAIO: 1:15am On Sep 27
Ubenedictus: i really don't know


At noon Benedictus began to taunt jnrbayano. "Shout louder!" he said. "Surely he is pastorOlu! Perhaps he is deep in thought, or busy, or traveling. Maybe he is sleeping and must be awakened."
- 1Kings 18:27
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 5:59pm On Sep 26
Eberex:

Answer these questions for me, if you do i'll answer yours. Was Moses and rest of the prophets and every events that happened in the Bible fiction?

I didn't ask you any question and it's no skin off my nose if you answer my imaginary question or not. I'm just irritated by the way people like you duck and dive when you are faced with points that expose the duplicity that you harbour.
Religion / Re: A Jewish Boycott: Is It Possible? by PastorAIO: 4:25pm On Sep 26
Meyer M. Treinkman totally misunderstood the entire point. Or maybe he didn't but it just didn't suit his purposes to get the point.

The point of the boycott is to put economic pressure on the Isreali state. Not to reject everything that a Jew has ever done. For Iran to do so it would also have to reject Islam and almost all of it's prophets.

The West imposed sanctions on Iran and also Iraq. Yet they did not reject civilisation which, according to historians, has it's origin in mesopotamia, present day Iraq and Iran. They did not stop using our current numerals which were given to us by the Moslem Arabs and greatly helped us to develop our science and maths.

They just stopped buying certain goods in order to put pressure on Iran and Iraq.

Now this Meyer M. Treinkman is also an extremely ignorant soul. He has the gall to ask 'what medical contributions to the world have moslems made'? Not just ignorance but I can smell a whiff of arrogance and self congratulatory puke in his tone.

Without Arab moslems there would be no such thing as surgery today. There would be no such thing as microscopes to research medicine because it is them that developed the use of lenses. There would be no mathematics. But let's just leave it at medicine. He needs to go and discover the contributions of islam to modern medicine.

Check out this link:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-29362370
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 3:33pm On Sep 26
Eberex:

Even a secondary student can answer your question....................wait let me get someone from SS class.. undecided, no offence but your question is too lame

He didn't ask you WHO can answer the question. He asked you who wrote the New testament and what the difference between it and the old testament is. You see how people fail exams.
Religion / 'we're Sorry For Giving You Algebra' by PastorAIO: 8:02pm On Sep 25
Muslims around the world have been posting sarcastic messages on social media, in a bid to counter a wave of hostility towards Islam.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-29362370
Religion / Re: What Is Existentialism? by PastorAIO: 7:49pm On Sep 25
OLAADEGBU:

I believe it is an humanistic ideology that Christians have now imbibed whereby we now identify God's Word through our own experience. In essence, we decide what is true by our likes, desires, or biases. An example is that almost all Christians believes in heaven, but almost no one believes in hell. shocked


Na today? Hasn't this always been the way? You yourself are a prime expert at this 'deciding what is true by ... likes, desires or biases'.
Religion / Re: Inside TB Joshua’s Broken Temple by PastorAIO: 6:56pm On Sep 24
Oduduwaboy:
What we are saying is that your mentor, TB JOSHUA is a frauuuuuuud and murderer who should be prosecuted for turning a 4-story building into 6-stories which then collapsed &squashed many people into a bloody mess! Are you just dull or dumb? Please, go back to the remaining guest house in your synagogue while you await the day of your own building collapse.

Maybe he is one of the ones went to TbJ for healing of Dull mind, but he still hasn't received his healing yet.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Inside TB Joshua’s Broken Temple by PastorAIO: 6:53pm On Sep 24
plaetton:

Yeah bro. I like your spirit.
We should all turn a blind eye to fraud and exploitation.
That would make a great society, wouldn't it? sad

If any of your family members died in that building collapse, I wonder if you would be saying same trash.

He probably would still be saying the same trash. I realised that the problem with many nigerians is actually intractable. Jesus once said in the bible, I think it was in the parable of Lazarus, that even if a dead body should rise and try to set them straight, they will still not change. They are fully committed to Opacity.

1 Like

Religion / Re: Inside TB Joshua’s Broken Temple by PastorAIO: 6:49pm On Sep 24
nora544:

I feel that you are a member of this man, and it is hard when you read that he cannot heal.
I know that you are so brainwashed from all the miracles what this fake pastors preach.


clap clap clap
Religion / Re: South African Journalist, Jacques Pauw Claims T.B Joshua Tried To Bribe Him by PastorAIO: 6:48pm On Sep 24
Image123:

It seems the program aired was about the healing or no healing, not about the bribe. i however stand to be corrected.

The program, This thread, recent events, many things, are about and point to the fact that you pentecostal vermin are liars and thieves. Rotten to the core of your souls and there is no redemption in you, talk less about you been able to proselytise and offer redemption to others.

When I say 'you' I refer to Lying thieving Callous pentecostals, anyone who is not amongst them shouldn't worry, I'm not referring to them when I say 'you'.

2 Likes

Religion / Re: Apst Paul Rose A Man Who Doze-off, Fell From 3 Storey While Listening To Sermon by PastorAIO: 8:10pm On Sep 23
Is this the litmus test? People have been dying in Nigeria since, christians and non christians alike, nobody raised them from the dead. The entire history of these Men of God guys in nigeria is one Big Failure of a Litmus test.
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 12:17pm On Sep 23
Do you mean to say that we have got it all wrong when we go around judging non christians, atheists, muslims etc etc etc? Instead we should have been judging our fellow christians. That would make being a christians a lot harder than what many so called christians practice today.

atbu1983:

The bible said in 1corinthians 5 that we can judge a fellow
christian for wrong. d only thing we cannot do is to pass final
judgement. Every christian is God's annointed and a man of God.
see below 1 corinthians chapter 5 from the d 1st verse . if you are
not patient enough to read the whole chapter you can focus on
verse 12 and 13
1 It is actually reported that there is intimate immorality among
you,
and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has
his father's wife. 2 And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have
been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man
who did this? 3 Even though I am not physically present, I am with
you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment on the one who
did this, just as if I were present. 4 When you are assembled in the
name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power
of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan, so
that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the
day of the Lord. 6 Your boasting is not good. Don't you know that a
little yeast works through the whole batch of dough? 7 Get rid of
the old yeast that you may be a new batch without yeast--as you
really are. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8
Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast
of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread
of sincerity and truth. 9 I have written you in my letter not to
associate with sexually immoral people-- 10 not at all meaning the
people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers,
or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11
But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone
who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an
idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man
do not even eat. 12 What business is it of mine to judge those
outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will
judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."
Religion / Re: What Man Of God Is Pastor Chris Oyakhilome - Femi Aribisala by PastorAIO: 12:15pm On Sep 23
Eberex:

If that is what you re going to ask then you are a confused fellow. Just moments ago you are asking questions about some verses in the Bible that you believed contradicted themselves, and yet you have an opportunity to ask Him any question! Wouldn't you want to get clarification from theses verses from Him?

you mean that if you met God today, such a momental event in anybody's life, even in the history of mankind, you would rather quibble over bible verses. Me, I was ask for the satisfaction of all my heart's desires, and not only my heart but all the other parts of my anatomy and psychology.
Religion / Followers Of Afro-brazilian Religions Feel Under Attack by PastorAIO: 4:56pm On Sep 22
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/9/13/prejudice-againstcandombleworshippersincreasesinbrazil.html



RECIFE, Brazil — Drizzle fell steadily as a crowd of a few hundred practitioners of Candomblé — a syncretic Afro-Brazilian religion often compared to Santería or Haitian Voodoo — gathered under enormous white tents in front of the Basílica de Nossa Senhora do Carmo in one of Brazil’s oldest cities in late June.

“Prejudice is the deformed child of ignorance,” Pedro Henrique, a member of the Order of Lawyers, declared to the crowd, his measured words booming through the speakers. He was among roughly a dozen speakers present to defend Afro-Brazilian religious practices.

While Candomblé (pejoratively referred to in Portuguese as Macumba) and its indigenous parallel, Umbanda, have long been persecuted by Catholic and lay authorities, practitioners say the phenomenal growth of the evangelical movement in Brazil seems to have increased prejudice against them.
Religion / Bible School Slave Camp- by PastorAIO: 3:57pm On Sep 12
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/09/bible-college-president-admits-he-used


Reginald Wayne Miller, the pastor, founder, and college president has finally - since being accused three months ago - pleaded guilty to four felony charges.
Religion / Re: PastorOluT, Lets Talk. by PastorAIO: 10:40am On Sep 02
Syncan:

I am very much interested in the knowledge of what happened to the church too.

Me too.
Religion / Re: "What Is The Origin Of The Catholic Church?" by PastorAIO: 2:23pm On Sep 01
OLAADEGBU:

Lies to you is the truth and the truth you see as lies. That is what satan does to those who reject the truth. They are given up to believing lies.
Right! so who has been lying? Look at the facts and then tell me who has rejected the Truth.


You say this because you have no idea what it means to become a Christian. Christianity is not a religion it is a lifestyle and a relationship with God through faith in Jesus Christ our Saviour.
I didn't say anything. I merely asked some questions. And you are incapable of answering those question honestly so you digress into what it means to be a true christian. I'll repeat: Did constantine convert to xtianity? Did Constantine make Christianity a State Religion or did he merely make it legal?


Heresis existed even during the time of Christ. What are you yapping about? See the depiction of Isis in the depiction below.
Lol, desperately Trying to Digress. a common disease also known as DTD. cool
What I am 'yapping on about' is your lies that are exposed by the Anachronism of your statements. If the Catholic church started in the 4th century and Origen wrote about mariology in the (2nd)/ 3rd century then how did Catholicism start Mariology. The issue is simple. Did Catholicism pre-exist the 4th century, the reign of Constantine, or did it only start with constantine as you have mendaciously claimed?
You haven't answered the questions: Where was Isis ever referred to as theotokos? Which temples of Isis were converted to temples of Mary?Remember that Satan is the Father of lies, so if you want to disown your father you have to prove here that you have not been lying.


If that is so why didn't Jesus offer His flesh and blood and let his disciples take a pound of flesh out of Him? undecided
Lol! DTD. You have failed to answer what I stated. Listen to the words of Jesus in Matt 26:26:
And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, Take, eat; this is my body.

So you see, according to the bible, Jesus did indeed offer his flesh and blood. Of course you are denying this because you are a liar and your Father, satan, is a liar from the beginning. This blatant evidence from the bible will not suffice to shut you up, I know that already. But I'm posting for the general readership of this thread.


The fall of the Roman Empire and the rise of the Catholic Church are really two branches of the same story, as the power was transferred from one entity to the other.

What power? Besides it was only the western side of the Roman empire that fell. The political power in the empire had already shifted to the East when Constantine moved the capital to Constantinople. There were bishops of Rome long before the fall of the Roman empire dating all the way back to the first century. The church of Rome had already existed. That is again another lie you are peddling. All the while DTD-ing. You didn't address what I said about Canon 27 of Chalcedon.



What do you know? You are not even a Christian, how then would you know about the truth about Christianity? It is dangerous to delve deep into Scriptures when you don't have an open mind to believe, obey and practise the will and word of God.

This standard desperate ruse. It's so sad. Anyone that doens't agree with you is 'not even a christian.' I remember you once even attacked Davidylan with the same desperate move when he wouldn't agree with your hateful polemic on one thread like this. That surprised even me. It was truly wondrous in my eyes.

Anyway the facts remain that you have been lying consistently in keeping with your satanic character. masquerading as an angel of light.
Religion / Re: "What Is The Origin Of The Catholic Church?" by PastorAIO: 11:07am On Sep 01
You are now famous for your lies, but that doesn't stop you.

OLAADEGBU: Question: "What is the origin of the Catholic Church?"

For the first 280 years of Christian history, Christianity was banned by the Roman Empire, and Christians were terribly persecuted. This changed after the “conversion” of the Roman Emperor Constantine. Constantine provided religious toleration with the Edict of Milan in AD 313, effectively lifting the ban on Christianity. Later, in AD 325, Constantine called the Council of Nicea in an attempt to unify Christianity. Constantine envisioned Christianity as a religion that could unite the Roman Empire, which at that time was beginning to fragment and divide. While this may have seemed to be a positive development for the Christian church, the results were anything but positive. Just as Constantine refused to fully embrace the Christian faith, but continued many of his pagan beliefs and practices, so the Christian church that Constantine promoted was a mixture of true Christianity and Roman paganism.

Did Constantine Convert to Christianity? Did Constantine make Christianity a State Religion or did he merely make it legal?


Constantine found that, with the Roman Empire being so vast, expansive, and diverse, not everyone would agree to forsake his or her religious beliefs to embrace Christianity. So, Constantine allowed, and even promoted, the “Christianization” of pagan beliefs. Completely pagan and utterly unbiblical beliefs were given new “Christian” identities. Some clear examples of this are as follows:

(1) The Cult of Isis, an Egyptian mother-goddess religion, was absorbed into Christianity by replacing Isis with Mary. Many of the titles that were used for Isis, such as “Queen of Heaven,” “Mother of God,” and theotokos (“God-bearer”) were attached to Mary. Mary was given an exalted role in the Christian faith, far beyond what the Bible ascribes to her, in order to attract Isis worshippers to a faith they would not otherwise embrace. Many temples to Isis were, in fact, converted into temples dedicated to Mary. The first clear hints of Catholic Mariology occur in the writings of Origen, who lived in Alexandria, Egypt, which happened to be the focal point of Isis worship.

The lies are too much. Where is Isis called 'Theotokos'? Sources please? Please name one or two temples of Isis that were converted into temples dedicated to Mary. I'm not aware of them.
Biggest lie: Catholic Mariology occur in the writing so of Origen from Alexandria. But wait Origen lived from 184 to 253. Constantine was emperor in the 4th century. If Constantine invented Catholic Church then how come Origen introduced catholic mariology in the 3rd century?



(2) Mithraism was a religion in the Roman Empire in the 1st through 5th centuries AD. It was very popular among the Romans, especially among Roman soldiers, and was possibly the religion of several Roman emperors. While Mithraism was never given “official” status in the Roman Empire, it was the de facto official religion until Constantine and succeeding Roman emperors replaced Mithraism with Christianity. One of the key features of Mithraism was a sacrificial meal, which involved eating the flesh and drinking the blood of a bull. Mithras, the god of Mithraism, was “present” in the flesh and blood of the bull, and when consumed, granted salvation to those who partook of the sacrificial meal (this is known as theophagy, the eating of one’s god). Mithraism also had seven “sacraments,” making the similarities between Mithraism and Roman Catholicism too many to ignore. Church leaders after Constantine found an easy substitute for the sacrificial meal of Mithraism in the concept of the Lord’s Supper/Christian communion. Even before Constantine, some early Christians had begun to attach mysticism to the Lord’s Supper, rejecting the biblical concept of a simple and worshipful remembrance of Christ’s death and shed blood. The Romanization of the Lord’s Supper made the transition to a sacrificial consumption of Jesus Christ, now known as the Catholic Mass/Eucharist, complete.

'Possibly the religion of several Roman emperors'? Like who? Constantine was into Sol Invictus not Mitraism. And you forgot to mention that it was Jesus himself that called the meal his flesh and his blood. That is not a small omission to make, don't you think. In fact that above is a blatant and misleading lie.

(3) Most Roman emperors (and citizens) were henotheists. A henotheist is one who believes in the existence of many gods, but focuses primarily on one particular god or considers one particular god supreme over the other gods. For example, the Roman god Jupiter was supreme over the Roman pantheon of gods. Roman sailors were often worshippers of Neptune, the god of the oceans. When the Catholic Church absorbed Roman paganism, it simply replaced the pantheon of gods with the saints. Just as the Roman pantheon of gods had a god of love, a god of peace, a god of war, a god of strength, a god of wisdom, etc., so the Catholic Church has a saint who is “in charge” over each of these, and many other categories. Just as many Roman cities had a god specific to the city, so the Catholic Church provided “patron saints” for the cities.

The issue here is too deep to go into here so I'll skip this one for another thread.

(4) The supremacy of the Roman bishop (the papacy) was created with the support of the Roman emperors. With the[b] city of Rome being the center of government for the Roman Empire[/b], and with the Roman emperors living in Rome, the city of Rome rose to prominence in all facets of life. Constantine and his successors gave their support to the bishop of Rome as the supreme ruler of the church. Of course, it is best for the unity of the Roman Empire that the government and state religion be centralized. While most other bishops (and Christians) resisted the idea of the Roman bishop being supreme, the Roman bishop eventually rose to supremacy, due to the power and influence of the Roman emperors. When the Roman Empire collapsed, the popes took on the title that had previously belonged to the Roman emperors—Pontifex Maximus.
Again you are contradicting yourself unwittingly (due to lack of historical knowledge). By the time christianity was legalised Constantine had removed the center of Roman empire away from Rome to Constantinople. There were no emperors of a unified Roman empire living in Rome while christianity was legal. In fact it was the Bishop of the See of Constantinople that was favoured. It was Bishop Leo that tried to make the Empire recognise Rome as the head but he was often ignored. It would be interesting to read Canon XXVII of Chalcedon where the eastern bishops challenged Rome. Reading in between the lines there seems to be an acknowledgement that the Bishop of Rome used to be the head of the Church but since Constantinople was the New Rome and the new Imperial centre then things had changed.


Many more examples could be given. These four should suffice in demonstrating the origin of the Catholic Church. Of course, the Roman Catholic Church denies the pagan origin of its beliefs and practices. The Catholic Church disguises its pagan beliefs under layers of complicated theology and “church tradition.” Recognizing that many of its beliefs and practices are utterly foreign to Scripture, the Catholic Church is forced to deny the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

The origin of the Catholic Church is the tragic compromise of Christianity with the pagan religions that surrounded it. Instead of proclaiming the gospel and converting the pagans, the Catholic Church “Christianized” the pagan religions, and “paganized” Christianity. By blurring the differences and erasing the distinctions, yes, the Catholic Church made itself attractive to the people of the Roman Empire. One result was the Catholic Church becoming the supreme religion in the Roman world for centuries. However, another result was the most dominant form of Christianity apostatizing from the true gospel of Jesus Christ and the true proclamation of God’s Word.

If any of your 'many more examples' are as unsound as the ones you've offered so far then don't bother. you are only trying to reinvent history to suit your hatred for christianity. You might be good at twisting the bible but historical facts are a totally different proposition altogether.

1 Like

Religion / Re: "What Was Early Christianity Like?" by PastorAIO: 10:14am On Sep 01
These anticatholic penterascals are so desperate.

So totally incapable of answering simple questions to elucidate their position.

Since the catholic church didn't exist in the 1st century then where is the church that existed then? Where is the church of the early church fathers? What these anticatholics are saying really is that christianity has finished. It has died out.

I also can't help noticing a lot of arrogance and ITK-ism.

Please where is the universal church today. If I want to write a letter to them, the way that St. Paul wrote a letter to the Romans, where would I address the letter to?

This question is soooo simple that even a child that knew what he was talking about ought to be able to answer it.
Religion / Re: What Is Church? by PastorAIO: 11:49am On Aug 26
OLAADEGBU:

Answer: Many people today understand the church as a building. This is not a biblical understanding of the church. The word “church” comes from the Greek word ekklesia which is defined as “an assembly” or “called-out ones.”


Etymology[edit]
Pharisee is derived from Latin pharisæus, -i; from Hebrew פְּרוּשִׁים pĕrûshîm, pl. of פָּרוּשׁ pārûsh, meaning “set apart”, Qal passive participle of the verb פָּרָשׁ pārāsh,[7][8] through Greek φαρισαῖος, -ου pharisaios.;[9])
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharisees

Food for thought.
Religion / Re: The Falsehoods Of Paul by PastorAIO: 9:29pm On Aug 25
maestroferddi: There are so many basic/assumptions lacking.

Was Paul presupposing the possibility of another means of God aside the Jesus he was preaching?
Acts4:12: "Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no there name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

Do you suppose that Paul and an Ifa priest stand on the same footing before God.

We keep discovering the graces of God but the ultimate/sole mediator/intercessor is Jesus Christ as per Christian teaching/doctrine.

Paul was not making wild conjectures but by divine inspiration was teaching on the sole legitimate way to access God.

God revealed Himself as the Tetragrammanton or Yahweh to the Jews. His identity has never been speculative.
That an Egyptian god was referred to as a "hidden one " does not make the god the eponymous Almighty God.

Well, you should show consistency. It is either we are not making speculations or we are not making them at all. We can't have it both ways. It was you that ran away with the speculation/assumption that Paul was quoting Epimenides while, in fact, there are a gamut of possibilities. Please note that Paul did not state he was quoting the poet.

My job was to provide counterpoints to destroy your subjective case. Since you are not coming from the standpoint of certainty or absoluteness, it then becomes apposite to confront you with the other side of the coin.

Nothing here addresses what I said.

If you want to speculate baselessly why display such a lack of imagination. Why not start with Lizards from outer space that came to earth and genetically modified humans and made us worship them and these lizards are the ones that wrote the poem. And then they telepathically communicated it to Paul who then wrote it to Titus totally ignorant of the fact that the Lizards had also inspired Epimenides with the same poem centuries before.
Religion / Re: The Falsehoods Of Paul by PastorAIO: 9:17pm On Aug 25
maestroferddi: There are a lot of mix-up. Paul's message to the Galatians was never to substitute or challenge the Jerusalem Church.
Instead, his argument centered on eliminating the corruptive influence of Judaisers who have infiltrated the church. These Judaisers were Jewish Christian who accepted Christ but were still enyoked by Jewish law-centric practices. If you have instances where Paul was substituting teachings/theology of the Jerusalem with his own, please let us know.

I don't think the question of whether Paul could deploy extra-scriptural means to win his audience arises at all. Paul was an inspired teacher and therefore was merely providing deeper insight to what the salvation message entails. At least the insight he was providing was non-existent till he got to Galatia and other churches.

Unless we are trying to eliminate the possibility that Paul was inspired.

None of the issues you are addressing above are in the post you are responding to. Maybe you didn't understand the post well. Let me repeat it ...


As regards the 'most effective methodology to achieve maximum results', what exactly are the results that you think that Paul is aiming for? And do you really support a 'by any means necessary' approach? What about lying and stealing? if they are the most effective methods to achieve your aims then would it be alright to employ them?

The questions were: 1) What are the results that you think Paul is aiming for?

2)Do you support a 'by any means necessary' approach to proselytizing?
Religion / Re: Paul: The False Apostle by PastorAIO: 9:12pm On Aug 25
thorpido: If your mom brought food from a party and you eat and enjoy it,who do you appreciate?

Common sense!

Hmm.. sounds like a trick question. Let me see....

Ans: God!!! grin grin
Religion / Re: See Why You Can't Argue With A Christian by PastorAIO: 8:44pm On Aug 25
zeemahn:
They knw better.
The religion one belongs to is usually d religion of the society.
Imaging wasting time on Allah or jehovah only to meet Zeus on judgement day grin

It makes the whole affair very very dicey. grin grin grin

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