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Was Hitler A Christian? - Religion (6) - Nairaland

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Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by delishpot: 9:51pm On May 19, 2015
No, if anything, hitler was interested in black magic.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:47pm On May 20, 2015
Ubenedictus:


according to the the passage you quoted , the first step is repentance not faith. according to those passages u begin d journey by metanoia, faith and baptism.

What is the difference between repentance and the Sacrament of Penance? Who does the Bible say we should go to when we confess our sins, where is the confessional stated in the Bible? These are what you need to spell out for us.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:50pm On May 20, 2015
PastorAIO:


Just go to almost every thread you've opened about Catholics, or about Obama. etc. etc. etc
I'm not in the mood to go digging.

Are you trying to say that I'm not tolerant of those folks you mentioned above? You might as well accuse our Lord Jesus Christ of hypocrisy and bigotry because He too was not tolerant of many folks.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 7:03pm On May 20, 2015
PastorAIO:


What was the gospel that Jesus was preaching? Was he preaching about his death and resurrection? Is that what Jesus was asking his audience?

He preached about repentance and the gospel of God, the Kingdom of God/heaven.

"Now after John had been taken into custody, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of God, and saying, "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel." (Mark 1:14-15).

PastorAIO:


And as for praying in public, what you are saying there is utter rubbish. If it is not seen by men then it is not public. Check out the meaning of public.

The apostle Paul said that Christians should pray everywhere, does that exclude the public?

"I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting" (1 Timothy 2:8 ).
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:44pm On May 22, 2015
PastorAIO:


I don't understand your need to distinguish doing from believing. They are like hand and glove. What you do accords totally with what you believe, and if you believe you will do accordingly.

Your question is like asking what comes first, the desire for food or hunger.
one does preceed the other and there is a difference between the two.

My question is just about what come first.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:54pm On May 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


What is the difference between repentance and the Sacrament of Penance? Who does the Bible say we should go to when we confess our sins, where is the confessional stated in the Bible? These are what you need to spell out for us.

repentance is a turning away from sin and a turning towards God. The sacrament of penance is the sacrament whereby sins are forgiven.

To be a Christian repentance, faith and the sacrament of baptism are important.


We should confess our sins to one another, to the elders of the church un particular and to God.

Jn 20:22 i believes shows that Jesus gave the apostles authority over sin.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 2:46pm On May 22, 2015
Ubenedictus:


repentance is a turning away from sin and a turning towards God. The sacrament of penance is the sacrament whereby sins are forgiven.

Agreed with your definition of repentance but can you break down the process involved in the sacrament of penance, are both one and the same?

Ubenedictus:


To be a Christian repentance, faith and the sacrament of baptism are important.

Are you saying that you have to undertake the sacrament of baptism before you become a Christian?

Ubenedictus:


We should confess our sins to one another, to the elders of the church un particular and to God.

Why do you have to confess your sins to your priest when you can confess directly to God? Didn't 1 John 1:9 say if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin? Why do we have to confess to a priest for the forgiveness of our sins?

Ubenedictus:


Jn 20:22 i believes shows that Jesus gave the apostles authority over sin.

Yes, believers have authority over sin but only God forgives not priests, for Jesus is our High Priest who has gone into the holy place interceeding for us and appropriating His blood for our forgiveness and justification.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by PastorAIO: 3:03pm On May 22, 2015
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
- From An Epistle of Straws.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by PastorAIO: 3:33pm On May 22, 2015
Ubenedictus:
one does preceed the other and there is a difference between the two.

My question is just about what come first.

Presuming out behaviour starts in our mind then then belief comes first.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:52pm On May 22, 2015
PastorAIO:


Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person has great power as it is working.
- From An Epistle of Straws.

Let's quote from the Epistle of James:

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" (James 5:16).

James admonition here is that Christians should confess their offences to those they have offended so that they can be healed. It does not refer to repentance and faith needed for salvation.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by PastorAIO: 4:21pm On May 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


Let's quote from the Epistle of James:

"Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" (James 5:16).

James admonition here is that Christians should confess their offences to those they have offended so that they can be healed. It does not refer to repentance and faith needed for salvation.


and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
THEREFORE... Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another,

Hmm... the only sins referred to here that the Lord will raise the sick from are those sins we've committed against one another. Other sins must use another method.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 5:30pm On May 22, 2015
PastorAIO:



and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
THEREFORE... Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another,

Hmm... the only sins referred to here that the Lord will raise the sick from are those sins we've committed against one another. Other sins must use another method.

The verse you quoted up there (vs. 15) is regarding Christians whose sickness is caused by unconfessed sin that has injured the church and it's ministry. Such an individual should then confess his specific sin to God, then to the church and it's elders. It is different from a sinner's prayer who is coming to faith in Christ.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:04pm On May 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:
DCLM Daily Manna
Thursday, February 12, 2015

Nothing But Repentance

TEXT: MATTHEW 3:1-5

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand" (Matthew 3:1,2).

John the Baptist was a fiery preacher of repentance and righteous living. The gospels also record that when our Lord started His ministry, He preached that people should repent of their sins and become citizens of the kingdom of God which was near (Matthew 4:17; Mark 1:15; Luke 4:8; John 1:43).

Repentance on the part of every sinner is crucial to obtaining the forgiveness of God. It is the basic message every child of God must preach to friends, relations and neighbours. Repentance, the condition for salvation, is a radical break with sin which separates man from his Creator.

On sighting the Pharisees and Sadducees who trooped to him at Jordan where he was conducting water baptism exercise for converts, John pointedly told them that the requirement for entry into the Kingdom was repentance from all sin. He did not feel intimidated or shy to soft-pedal on the truth he was commissioned to preach.

The two groups that came to John hold different opinions contrary to Scriptures. The Pharisees believed salvation would come only from obeying the law of Moses, and not by the grace of God through Jesus. The Sadducees were theological liberals who did not believe in resurrection, miracles, angels or end-time judgment. Both persecuted our Lord and contemned His doctrine. But John was undeterred; he warned them of “the wrath to come.” He told them they would be “cast into the fire” if they didn’t repent.

The attitude of John the Baptist challenges us as believers to be courageous in preaching the truth of the gospel, even in the face of opposition from erroneous teachers of our generation.

THE BIBLE IN ONE YEAR: JOSHUA 5 - 7

Higher Everyday for Youths - Link: http://highereveryday.dclmhq.org/

THOUGHT FOR THE DAY: "The Kingdom is the centre-piece of the good news"

See more at:
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by PastorAIO: 6:52pm On May 22, 2015
[quote author=OLAADEGBU post=34000971][/quote]

Did he have to explain the kingdom to htem or did they already have an idea of what the kingdom was? What was the current idea of the Kingdom at that time for them?
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:29pm On May 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:
Agreed with your definition of repentance but can you break down the process involved in the sacrament of penance, are both one and the same?

they are not one and the same, they are sometimes complimentary. Repentance is necessary for the sacrament to penance. But one can repent without the sacrament.

When a sinner is converted, he experience repentance before baptism, the sacrament of penance isn't necessary. When a catholic praysy his/her night prayer, he is expected to examine his conscience and see what wrong he has done, what good he has done imperfectly and what good he has failed to do, there and then he is to repent from those sin and ask for forgiveness. All that is repentance.

Sacrament of penance is a different ball game, will a catholic grievously sin in a grave matter, knowingly and willingly, he may have recourse to the power Jesus gave his church on sins when he said "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven".
The person must be trully sorry for his sins, make a firm resolves to turn away from it and amend his/her life, and accuse him/her before one who posseses that particular ministry usually the presbyterous of the church. He may also be asked to do something to repair what is damaged. That is called the sacrament of penance.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:05pm On May 22, 2015
OLAADEGBU:

Are you saying that you have to undertake the sacrament of baptism before you become a Christian?

yes sir!

My bible does teach that "baptism now saves you", "all who are baptised into christ are baptised into his death"

so yes I believe all who are justified by faith in baptism are rightly called Christians.



Why do you have to confess your sins to your priest when you can confess directly to God? Didn't 1 John 1:9 say if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sin? Why do we have to confess to a priest for the forgiveness of our sins?

because God has given to those priests the power to forgive sins in his name.

When God open a way, then I see no reason not to use it

Yes, believers have authority over sin but only God forgives not priests, for Jesus is our High Priest who has gone into the holy place interceeding for us and appropriating His blood for our forgiveness and justification.

Christ has already given the church a ministry that forgives sins in his name.

It is true that God alone forgive sins, it is also true that Jesus has that said power to forgive sins and my bible shows he gave to his apostles the power to forgive sins in his name.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 9:22pm On May 22, 2015
PastorAIO:



and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
THEREFORE... Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another,

Hmm... the only sins referred to here that the Lord will raise the sick from are those sins we've committed against one another. Other sins must use another method.


I usually smile when I see the constraint like the one I bolded above, because the interesting fact is that none of the Christians of the early centuries interpreted that passage with a constraint, "confess your sins one to another" shikena, it doesn't say the sins to be confessed are only those commited against another, that constraint isn't in the passage, the early Christian audience never understood it to mean that the presbyterous is to declear forgiveness only when the sin is committed against another.

This also raised another question, when Jesus gave the apostles power to forgive sins did he also constrain the power to sins committed against others?

Then there comes the next can, what sins do not affect others in the general sense?

Sorry but I think that interpretation fall under the new age category which isn't necessaryly faithful to the text of scripture.

1 Like

Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:36pm On May 25, 2015
PastorAIO:


Did he have to explain the kingdom to htem or did they already have an idea of what the kingdom was? What was the current idea of the Kingdom at that time for them?

Read His parables. He mostly taught in parables and explained these into details to those who where interested.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:47pm On May 25, 2015
Ubenedictus:


they are not one and the same, they are sometimes complimentary. Repentance is necessary for the sacrament to penance. But one can repent without the sacrament.

If one can repent without it does that mean we can do without sacrament of penance?

Ubenedictus:


When a sinner is converted, he experience repentance before baptism, the sacrament of penance isn't necessary. When a catholic praysy his/her night prayer, he is expected to examine his conscience and see what wrong he has done, what good he has done imperfectly and what good he has failed to do, there and then he is to repent from those sin and ask for forgiveness. All that is repentance.

How does a sinner get converted in the first place?

Ubenedictus:


Sacrament of penance is a different ball game, will a catholic grievously sin in a grave matter, knowingly and willingly, he may have recourse to the power Jesus gave his church on sins when he said "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven".
The person must be trully sorry for his sins, make a firm resolves to turn away from it and amend his/her life, and accuse him/her before one who posseses that particular ministry usually the presbyterous of the church. He may also be asked to do something to repair what is damaged. That is called the sacrament of penance.

What kind of sins do you call grievous or grave that only the church priests can forgive? How is the repair to damage carried out, is it by punishing oneself?
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 3:57pm On May 25, 2015
Ubenedictus:


yes sir!

My bible does teach that "baptism now saves you", "all who are baptised into christ are baptised into his death"

so yes I believe all who are justified by faith in baptism are rightly called Christians.

So a sinner who gets 'baptised' in water is automatically converted? It is either we are justified by faith or by water baptism it cannot be both.


Ubenedictus:


because God has given to those priests the power to forgive sins in his name.

When God open a way, then I see no reason not to use it

God actually closed the way of priests sacrificing and interceding for us when He sent Jesus Christ to die and shed His precious blood for the forgiveness and remission of our sin. Jesus Christ is now our High Priest who has entered the Holy place interceding for us and all we have to do is look up to Him who is the author and finisher of our faith not any earthly priest.

Ubenedictus:


Christ has already given the church a ministry that forgives sins in his name.

It is true that God alone forgive sins, it is also true that Jesus has that said power to forgive sins and my bible shows he gave to his apostles the power to forgive sins in his name.

Can you show me where priests or confessionals are mentioned in the NT?
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:44am On May 26, 2015
OLAADEGBU:

So a sinner who gets 'baptised' in water is automatically converted? It is either we are justified by faith or by water baptism it cannot be both.

actually the bible says both.
To be a christ you must repent, believe and be baptised! Not only believe but believe and be baptised.
The passage you quoted puts it clearly "repent, believe and be baptised", in Acts 2 when peter was asked what shall we do his response was simply
"repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of sins and so you may receive the holy spirit".
Paul writes that all who are baptised into Christ are baptised into his death...he even goes on and on, peter rightly teaches that baptism now saves us.

So my dear a Christian is justified by Grace, thru faith in baptism.

God actually closed the way of priests sacrificing and interceding for us when He sent Jesus Christ to die and shed His precious blood for the forgiveness and remission of our sin. Jesus Christ is now our High Priest who has entered the Holy place interceding for us and all we have to do is look up to Him who is the author and finisher of our faith not any earthly priest.

the same Jesus our High priest gave to other men the power to forgive sins in his name, Or did you miss that passage in your bible? He is the one who opens that path, if he didn't want us to believe that we can obtain forgiveness in his name thru his ministers then he wouldn't give them the power to pronounce sins forgiven.


Can you show me where priests or confessionals are mentioned in the NT?

hehehe, you have been singing "Jesus is our high priest" are you not aware that the very idea of a high priest presupposes that there are other priest who share in the ministry of the high priest?

Confessional is found in jn where Christ says "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven whatsoever sins you retain are retained."
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 1:59am On May 26, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


If one can repent without it does that mean we can do without sacrament of penance?

hehehe, this is like asking, can one do without the eucharist. You should ask Jesus that question, he is the one who gave the power to forgive sin to the apostles you can go and ask him if we can do without what he has given.


How does a sinner get converted in the first place?

you can answer this by yourself. To be converted the first thing is a "mover", something that moves the heart, this is usually the holyspirit using the word of God, the sinner is then convicted of sin and convinced of the need for rigteousness, he is "cut in the heart" and desires to change his ways, this is usually called repentance, he then believes in the word of God and he responds to this word by following the demands of Christ first is baptism.

This is the first instance of conversion, the conversion experience actually most times last for a life time.

What kind of sins do you call grievous or grave that only the church priests can forgive? How is the repair to damage carried out, is it by punishing oneself?

i never said there are any sins ONLY a church priest can forgive, it is you who say that.

Punishing yourself for the sake of punishing yourself does not repair anything. The act the priests prescribes are usually practical, e.g if you went about speading calumny against your brother a good repair will be to go back and tell of the goodness of you brother. The repair for a particular vice is usually the opposite virtue and prayer.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:04pm On May 27, 2015
Ubenedictus:


actually the bible says both.
To be a christ you must repent, believe and be baptised! Not only believe but believe and be baptised.
The passage you quoted puts it clearly "repent, believe and be baptised", in Acts 2 when peter was asked what shall we do his response was simply
"repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of sins and so you may receive the holy spirit".
Paul writes that all who are baptised into Christ are baptised into his death...he even goes on and on, peter rightly teaches that baptism now saves us.

So my dear a Christian is justified by Grace, thru faith in baptism.

You can only repent when you believe the gospel. So what happens to those who believed and repented but died before they could get baptised, such as the thief on the cross. The condition for the forgiveness and remission of our sins is to repent and believe the gospel, it is only after this that we get baptised in water to fulfil all righteousness in obedience to the Lord.

"Repent therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached to you" (Acts 3:19-20)

Ubenedictus:


the same Jesus our High priest gave to other men the power to forgive sins in his name, Or did you miss that passage in your bible? He is the one who opens that path, if he didn't want us to believe that we can obtain forgiveness in his name thru his ministers then he wouldn't give them the power to pronounce sins forgiven.

No man has the power to forgive anyone it is only Jesus who forgives and washes our sins away when we come to Him in faith.

Ubenedictus:


hehehe, you have been singing "Jesus is our high priest" are you not aware that the very idea of a high priest presupposes that there are other priest who share in the ministry of the high priest?

Confessional is found in jn where Christ says "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven whatsoever sins you retain are retained."

"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

As you can see there is no confessional nor any provision for priests that we should go to when confessing your sins. Jesus has replaced the priests and is now our High Priests who forgives and cleanses us with His own blood. We receive forgiveness and remission of sins through the name of Jesus Christ alone and not through any priest.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

There is only one Mediator between God and man, the Man Jesus not earthly priests or popes.

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5).
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 6:16pm On May 27, 2015
Ubenedictus:


hehehe, this is like asking, can one do without the eucharist. You should ask Jesus that question, he is the one who gave the power to forgive sin to the apostles you can go and ask him if we can do without what he has given.

Water baptism and the Eucharist only follows after true conversion. These are rituals believers partake of in obedience to Christ's command and does not make you a Christian.

Ubenedictus:


you can answer this by yourself. To be converted the first thing is a "mover", something that moves the heart, this is usually the holyspirit using the word of God, the sinner is then convicted of sin and convinced of the need for rigteousness, he is "cut in the heart" and desires to change his ways, this is usually called repentance, he then believes in the word of God and he responds to this word by following the demands of Christ first is baptism.

This is the first instance of conversion, the conversion experience actually most times last for a life time.

What will happen to the person who gets converted but was not opportuned to get baptised in water, will he go to hell if he dies in this condition?

Ubenedictus:


i never said there are any sins ONLY a church priest can forgive, it is you who say that.

Punishing yourself for the sake of punishing yourself does not repair anything. The act the priests prescribes are usually practical, e.g if you went about speading calumny against your brother a good repair will be to go back and tell of the goodness of you brother. The repair for a particular vice is usually the opposite virtue and prayer.

This is called restitution an act one carries out in obedience after conversion.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:24pm On Jun 12, 2015
delishpot:


No, if anything, hitler was interested in black magic.

I concede that Hitler was Roman Catholic. cool
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 11:00pm On Jun 23, 2015
OLAADEGBU:

Water baptism and the Eucharist only follows after true conversion. These are rituals believers partake of in obedience to Christ's command and does not make you a Christian.
baptism actually makes you a Christian rm 6



What will happen to the person who gets converted but was not opportuned to get baptised in water, will he go to hell if he dies in this condition?
his desire will suffice for his salvation.



This is called restitution an act one carries out in obedience after conversion.

you simply succeeded in giving it a different name.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 11:05pm On Jun 23, 2015
OLAADEGBU:

No man has the power to forgive anyone it is only Jesus who forgives and washes our sins away when we come to Him in faith.



"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

As you can see there is no confessional nor any provision for priests that we should go to when confessing your sins. Jesus has replaced the priests and is now our High Priests who forgives and cleanses us with His own blood. We receive forgiveness and remission of sins through the name of Jesus Christ alone and not through any priest.

you can take this up with Jesus he was the one who said "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven"
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by OLAADEGBU(m): 4:18pm On Jul 21, 2015
Ubenedictus:


you can take this up with Jesus he was the one who said "whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven"

What Jesus was saying there is if someone has repented from sin and is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for his salvation, every believer (not your priests), has been given the authority to inform him/her that their sin is forgiven, what we call assurance of salvation, based on their professed faith in Jesus Christ the Saviour.
Re: Was Hitler A Christian? by Ubenedictus(m): 12:49am On Aug 28, 2015
OLAADEGBU:


What Jesus was saying there is if someone has repented from sin and is trusting in Jesus Christ alone for his salvation, every believer (not your priests), has been given the authority to inform him/her that their sin is forgiven, what we call assurance of salvation, based on their professed faith in Jesus Christ the Saviour.
that is NOT what Jesus said!

Go back and get ur bible! He said,

"recieve the Holyspirit, whosoever sins you forgive are forgiven, whosoever sins you retain are retain" very simple do not try to change it.

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