johnydon22:



My post was to address the naive thinking of people "who think that without the concept of a God and punishment and reward, one cannot be good" So it's not an attack on any deity, religion or culture ..

Just an explanation of independent Moral basis...

Thoniameek:


What is "good"?.... How do you know that something/someone is "good"? Because "good" as you know it might be different from how I know it. Can you then say I'm not "good" or not doing something "good" because it's not "good" as you know it....

What makes you think you can tell me what's "good" and what's not?

Because, what I consider to be "good" is definitely different from what you know as "good"

So, when I ask 'why be good as an unbeliever' why conclude that I meant "good" as you know it?

Thoniameek:


What is "good"?.... How do you know that something/someone is "good"? Because "good" as you know it might be different from how I know it. Can you then say I'm not "good" or not doing something "good" because it's not "good" as you know it....

What makes you think you can tell me what's "good" and what's not?

Because, what I consider to be "good" is definitely different from what you know as "good"

I am pretty sure this was in the Op where i said

"What religions consider to be moral are in fact opposite of what secular or independent moral basis consider to be moral" So evidently i recognize morality to be subjective and know that what you may consider moral maybe different from mine

This shows you didn't read the Op before rushing into it . . One problem with humans: Listening half, understanding less and talking double..Next time please read the subject before rushing to make points

So, when I ask 'why be good as an unbeliever' why conclude that I meant "good" as you know it?

johnydon22:
I personally think you have no idea what the Op was all about, I think you need to read the Op because tho your questions are ill placed or in no connection to my assertions i believe the Op have the answer to some of the relevant ones, so go read it..
I have never implied it, you are committing a logical fallacy known as straw man by misrepresenting someone's assertion with your own assumptions. . . I in no way in my post tried telling anyone what should be good, so please do not heap your own fallaciously employed assumptions on me...
I am pretty sure this was in the Op where i said

"What religions consider to be moral are in fact opposite of what secular or independent moral basis consider to be moral" So evidently i recognize morality to be subjective and know that what you may consider moral maybe different from mine

This shows you didn't read the Op before rushing into it . . One problem with humans: Listening half, understanding less and talking double..Next time please read the subject before rushing to make points

I am pretty sure the Good (morality) the Op implied was a clear one.

So maybe i will need you to make known your own version of goodness... But before that; read the Op i am pretty sure you didn't

Thoniameek:


Got me! I didn't read all of it but scheme through. I considered most if it unimportant and gibberish.....

Am just trying to say the question on your topic is as valid as you asking me to prove the existence of God, because only God is good and any form of goodness comes from Him.

BTW; You writ too long mehn! C'mon, why don't you paraphrase a bit

kolajamesjnr:

And u ar a gud example of it

TheDauraMallam:

Duh, I'm an atheist.
And you are a delusional goat.

fearlesschicken:
Passing by....

Passer by

johnydon22:
So many people don't even know what morality means ...

maverickboy:
If u would like to know, Morality is part & parcel of religion; You can't detach Morality from Religion and vice versa. It's religion that introduced Morality into the society, before it now becomes part of our life.
And since it has become part of human life, atheist may act according to the moral obligations of his society. Therefore, "Morality" for atheists (that have it) is an inherited quality which actually stems from "Religion".

Morality is a product of religion What type of people do i really have to deal with everyday on nairaland exactly.

Religion is a product of the society and not the other way round. . . Before man started settling together into a community everyone lived in autonomy.

When these people began settling close to each other, there was need for ethics and mutual behaviours towards each other, that is the advent of morality.

Religion and Politics were later additions to human society and these two emanated from the need to ensure people conform to the expected norms of the new society which was vital for mutual coexistence.

That is how Morality and order beget Politics (Law of state) and religion (Alleged law of God to make sure people obeyed) And these development led to the emergence of Civilizations and leadership which culminated into monarchs. . History 101

Asserting Religion beget morality is like asserting Politics beget morality or you beget your mother.... I think you need a lesson down historical antiquities so you would stop making such ludicrous naive assertions next time.

Morality is neither Islamic anymore than it is Hindu or christian, Morality is human. It belongs to no ism and is not dependent on any book, creed or supernatural claims for foundation because morality itself is a foundation

johnydon22:
[b]Morality is a product of religion What type of people do i really have to deal with everyday on nairaland exactly.

Religion is a product of the society and not the other way round. . . Before man started settling together into a community everyone lived in autonomy.

When these people began settling close to each other, there was need for ethics and mutual behaviours towards each other, that is the advent of morality.

Religion and Politics were later additions to human society and these two emanated from the need to ensure people conform to the expected norms of the new society which was vital for mutual coexistence.

That is how Morality and order beget Politics (Law of state) and religion (Alleged law of God to make sure people obeyed) And these development led to the emergence of Civilizations and leadership which culminated into monarchs. . History 101

Asserting Religion beget morality is like asserting Politics beget morality or you beget your mother.... I think you need a lesson down historical antiquities so you would stop making such ludicrous naive assertions next time.

Morality is neither Islamic anymore than it is Hindu or christian, Morality is human. It belongs to no ism and is not dependent on any book, creed or supernatural claims for foundation because morality itself is a foundation [/b]

maverickboy:
There's one thing I got to know from ur response to my post, That's "the hearing of religion is the opium of atheists".
I think I'll have to let go of this, so as not to waste time on "never ending argument".

johnydon22:
No there is one thing you should learn from my post and that is "You need a basic lesson in history"
When someone does not know that Politics and Religion are products of organized society, what then can that person assert correctly as regard these premises..
I personally have no problem with religion unless you are in jupiter only then can you claim you are not seeing the effects these religious brouhaha are having on everybody including atheists.
So that an atheists retaliates by placing such absurd ideologies under scrutiny is very much in order.

maverickboy:
And the fact that there could be two answers to a question is something necessary for u to understand. Once u have made up ur mind never to look into what others perspective is, u will continue to make a terrible mistake that there's nothing they can offer u.
Of course, we can go into history to clarify our differences but how deep should we go. Don't forget history starts somewhere but has no end; tomorrow will be history. so, when u go into its depth, and history itself has nothing else to offer how do u explain the rest of the issue?

johnydon22:

When someone does not know that Politics and Religion are products of organized society, what then can that person assert correctly as regard these premises..

maverickboy:
I'd have like to explain something here but it won't just be acceptable to you. And mind u, u are to haste on ur conclusion!

johnydon22:
For the single fact that you have asserted Religions beget morality when the other way round is the case shows i personally have nothing more to discuss with you based on the development of human societal ethics and morality.

maverickboy:
Lastly, My assertion could be to u, but not totally wrong as far as I'm concerned. It's a matter of perspective.

Image123:
Don't BOTHER to be good duh, there's none good but God.

Image123:
Don't BOTHER to be good duh, there's none good but God.

johnydon22:
Good and bad are actions meted towards another and these actions i have seen in humans and other life forms in this planet..

I do not particularly see murdering ones son to appease one's ego good..

hahn:


God doesn't exist. By your analogy, good doesn't exist either

johnydon22:
Good and bad are actions meted towards another and these actions i have seen in humans and other life forms in this planet..

I do not particularly see murdering ones son to appease one's ego good..

hahn:


He oviously didn't read the first write up. He is only concerned about defending his belief. I don't understand how these people think. Just go to the politics section and see how theists insult themselves and then they'll come here and act all holy.

Image123:


Okay. But you believe He killed His Son right?