pamcode:
This is wrong in his first spell in Italy(with fiorentina) and Spain(with Valencia) he was successful he won the coppa italia and supercoppa in italy, he also won the Copa del rey in spain. Mind you this were clubs swimming in the bottom half of their divisons before he came. I think he even qualified fiorentina to serie A by winning serie B.

Eastbay:

My case in point.
He didn't tear up the league except for that season.

Even that is up for debate. But we give him a pass.

He was not as prolific as you would want me to believe.


Transfer fees don't always make you legit.
Seba Veron cost United upwards of 28 million pounds, yet he was flogged off after just two seasons.


Nihilist, abeg, let's not be going back and forth on this matter.
I don't ride the train like you.

raumdeuter:


The current EPL winning coach was sacked as coach of Greece for losing to Faroe Island

raumdeuter:


The current EPL winning coach was sacked as coach of Greece for losing to Faroe Island

Nihilist:


Now you're shifting the argument. You were previously speaking about the league up until 1999 and mentioned players like Stam, Yorke and Blomquist.. hence I also focused on that Era.

Nihilist:


If we move to the Modern Era, I think that there's still a very good argument that Ferguson had the best squad or at the worst on par with his opposition

Nihilist:


And anytime there was a better or equal team, Ferguson forfeited the title. Against Jose twice. Against Mancini. Against Ancelotti. I don't think Arsenal had a ever had a better squad than Manyoo as Henry and Viera papered over a lot of cracks in that team IMO.

chic2pimp:


No one Italy views Claudio's time there as a success. He was at best Average. Just because wikipedia says His time in Italy was a success does not mean it was.

Eruditor:
Ollah 1,

Your level of tolerance is commendable. I have a lot to learn from you. I digress...

In the eyes of those who like Chelsea, adore Mou and those in Manchester that he turned down, he is a failure.

They have 1 reason to say so, and they will clutch onto it for dear life. There's no point trying to convince them otherwise, as a Lion was created to eat flesh. In otherwords, it is in their nature.

Pep will continue to be treated on the side because history needs naysayers to strike a balance. Even if Pep had won a treble with Bayern (I mean the UCL inclusive because he won 4 trophies his first season) they would have said he wasn't special because Jupp had already done it. If he had won it by beating everyone else 5goals per game, it would've been the same conclusion. So don't expect them to change their opinions now that he was KOed in his 4th consecutive Semis (adding his last season with Barca). For some of them it is light banter, and for others, sheer hatred because when he is juxtaposed with their beloved, he defecates on him- a man who was fully on his way to relegating previous champs.

As an admirer of him, I wished he delivered the UCL to Bayern because a great majority of the fans and executives alike believed in him and wanted him to stay. It will probably haunt him for years, but then again it might be the motivation he needs to succeed at City.

At the end of the day, he is taking over a City side that are 13pts behind the champs, 4th on the log, lacking in confidence, Carling cup champs as well as in the semis of the UCL. So that posterity will judge those who will later claim that anything he achieves there could have been achieved by anybody else.

What am I even saying? They will still conclude that.

Nihilist:


There's no back and forth...the train goes in only one direction. Of course a big money transfer can go on to flop, just like an over hyped bald headed fraud of a manager can also turn out to flop worse than caitlyn jenner's erecttion.

The question here was regarding expectation.

Should we expect them to flop while managing that array of talent?

Ferguson more or less matched up to his expectation.

Pep has not.

The side debate, yourself and i got into was only because of your post implying that sir rednose was some sort of miracle worker. He wasn't. He managed the one of the biggest teams in the modern era...and he delivered, unlike a bald headed, sweater wearing, team mate slapping, thousand yard staring, catalan fraud.

Eastbay:


I made that point in relation to the champions league.

You are inferring here.

The point is those players were rubbish players and still won the champions league.
you can backtrack and read it again.

Eruditor:
Ollah 1,

Your level of tolerance is commendable. I have a lot to learn from you. I digress...

In the eyes of those who like Chelsea, adore Mou and those in Manchester that he turned down, he is a failure.

They have 1 reason to say so, and they will clutch onto it for dear life. There's no point trying to convince them otherwise, as a Lion was created to eat flesh. In otherwords, it is in their nature.

Pep will continue to be treated on the side because history needs naysayers to strike a balance. Even if Pep had won a treble with Bayern (I mean the UCL inclusive because he won 4 trophies his first season) they would have said he wasn't special because Jupp had already done it. If he had won it by beating everyone else 5goals per game, it would've been the same conclusion. So don't expect them to change their opinions now that he was KOed in his 4th consecutive Semis (adding his last season with Barca). For some of them it is light banter, and for others, sheer hatred because when he is juxtaposed with their beloved, he defecates on him- a man who was fully on his way to relegating previous champs.

As an admirer of him, I wished he delivered the UCL to Bayern because a great majority of the fans and executives alike believed in him and wanted him to stay. It will probably haunt him for years, but then again it might be the motivation he needs to succeed at City.

At the end of the day, he is taking over a City side that are 13pts behind the champs, 4th on the log, lacking in confidence, Carling cup champs as well as in the semis of the UCL. So that posterity will judge those who will later claim that anything he achieves there could have been achieved by anybody else.

What am I even saying? They will still conclude that.

Eastbay:


I think this argument is one of perception.
You see it from the point of view that a manager with resources should win. But you and I know it always doesn't work out that way.

Pep inherited a treble winning squad and has not equaled the feat of his predecessor, which leads many to ask if he would have won if he didn't have the talent at his disposal in the first place.

As a United fan in the past I have queried how some players found their way into United. Fergie has managed some of the worst players I have ever seen (Djemba Djemba, Bellion, Bebe, Richardson, to name a few) yet they have one sort of medal or the other. I have often wondered how John O'Shea and Fletcher and Wes Brown have several league titles and have managed to carve out long careers.
That's the point I have been trying to pass across.


Fergie met United on its knees. As much as you may not like him, you have to agree that he did transform the side. No one is calling him the modern day re-incarnation of a divine being. I'm only saying he can't be termed a failure.

Nihilist:


I don't need to back track, I read it first time, and called it out as BS.

Ok lets look at Manyoo's 1999 squad.

It contained:

Gary Neville(PFA Team of the year 1999)
David Beckham(2nd best player of the year world AND Europe 1999)
Dwight Yorke(Club record transfer and league golden boot winner 1999)
Peter Schmeichel( UEFA keeper of the year 1998)
Andy Cole(2nd highest goal scorer in the league 1999)
Roy Keane
Ryan Giggs
Paul Scholes
Jaap Stam( UEFA Best defender in Europe 1999)


Yeah this team was really rubbish, and could not have been reasonable expected to win domestically and in Europe.

sebod:

A Man U fan called the collection of the players above rubbish in a bid to pass a message across, and no Man U fan is ready to correct him. SMH
Nihilist, I dey feel you jor!

lekkie073:
he didnt call them rubbish...many of them r just a bit above average....

diggz:


Omo mehn.....! Are u seriously trying to create an outlet for pep should he fail at city?

Please, City have the best squad in the league and that's a fact.

Pep will be going to a club with infinite amount of money to spend should he even decide to buy the genius he created,he won't have problem with cash.

So all those 13points blah blah blah shyyyyte ain't going to work braaaah.! Plus posterity will remember him going to a club where he will get a soft landing.

Eruditor:


There is no outlet to be created. If Pep doesn't win 2 UCLs in 3 seasons at Manchester city he will be judged a failure.

City have one of the best squads. I know you want to raise moot points but Chelsea's squad was as good when the season started. But you lot quickly shifted gear when Mou was on his "relegate-Chelsea-by-all-means" campaign.

Chelsea, United are as infinite in spending as City. This is a fact as well.

At the end of the day, you are confirming all I already said: Did Pep underachieve in Europe? Yes. At least he should have made one final, particularly this one.

But even if he made 1 final would you give him credit? No. You will say there is nothing special because Jupp and LVG did it. After all, you (using it loosely)said the same about Rijkaard's Barca and Pep's.

In conclusion, Pep will never be good enough for you because you are predisposed to dislike him- which is fair. But is his record better than Beloved Mou? Your guess is as good as mine.

lekkie073:

the moment someone sets a high standard, he would continually be judged with such. imagine guardiola winning two ucl in 3 yrs with barca.....any big team dat request for his services will believe dat he can at least give them one ucl trophy within a period of 3yrs given his past exploits in d competition. the moment he cant live up to that, then he is just like others, not better.
bayern munich just won the ucl before he took over. it is believed dat with such a good team coupled with his own managerial prowess he should be able to win d ucl again within 3 yrs but alas! he couldnt even get to one final

now dat he is going to mancity....if within his time in mancity he fails to take them to at least one ucl final, then he has failed again because before he took over mancity reached a semi final and it wont just do for him to manage the same mancity and continously get sent out before the final.

A40:

[s]You are a m0ron. This fraud of a defender is a World Champion and CL winner. He pressed forward knowing Javi and Alaba were at the back. Abominable bilewu!

What did Javi and Alaba do to prevent the pass from getting to Griezmann? [/s]

Javi that has been playing at CB since 2011/2012 is now a makeshift CB [s]according to your oponu brain. Unku when will you stop being an arindin[/s]?

Eruditor:


Let him be judged by others, but let it be fair. How does a manager improve on a treble winning season? At least with LVG there was a motivation to win it in 2010-11. Same as Jupp in 2013-14. But with Pep 2014-15, how would he have improved? So any manager that got to 3 consecutive semis with Leeds in the UCL would have been normal because 1 had done so before that manager? So if City wins the UCL this year how would Pep improve on them? To win it back to back to back? Come on!

People say any manager can win anything with Bayern but Klinsmann failed. Bayern have been so dominant in Germany for years yet this is the first time they would win 4 Bundesliga titles in a row.

The point I am trying to make is it is not as easy as people are trying to make it look. Pep did well above average because Bayern competed each year he was there. When you get to the semis, you'd need serendipity. Even on examining ATM vs Barca and ATM vs Bayern, it is clear which team was better this year.

I don't know how true, but I read that Simeone said this Bayern squad was the most difficult to play in all his career as a manager.

It was worth listening to Atletico manager Diego Simeone's postmatch opinion that Bayern was "the best team I've faced in my career" -- in the first half, at least. Their performance was difficult to fault, a relentless assault of speed and intricate attacking play that seemed to be the crystallization of Guardiola's work in Munich. It was the synthesis of technical excellence and ferocious pressure off the ball that characterised his Barcelona side. Atletico could barely live with Bayern at times, and it did not seem to be the kind of night on which to question a coach who had moulded a team capable of this level of play.

Eruditor:


There is no outlet to be created. If Pep doesn't win 2 UCLs in 3 seasons at Manchester city he will be judged a failure.

City have one of the best squads. I know you want to raise moot points but Chelsea's squad was as good when the season started. But you lot quickly shifted gear when Mou was on his "relegate-Chelsea-by-all-means" campaign.

Chelsea, United are as infinite in spending as City. This is a fact as well.

At the end of the day, you are confirming all I already said: Did Pep underachieve in Europe? Yes. At least he should have made one final, particularly this one.

But even if he made 1 final would you give him credit? No. You will say there is nothing special because Jupp and LVG did it. After all, you (using it loosely)said the same about Rijkaard's Barca and Pep's.

In conclusion, Pep will never be good enough for you because you are predisposed to dislike him- which is fair. But is his record better than Beloved Mou? Your guess is as good as mine.

Nihilist:


When you have world class players, you can afford to carry some dross. It sill doesnt make your team rubbish. Barca carried Valdes and Pinto for years. Carried Pedro. And are carrying Shakira's wife

They were/are still the best team in the world.

lekkie073:
he didnt call them rubbish...many of them r just a bit above average....

Nihilist:


I don't need to back track, I read it first time, and called it out as BS.

Ok lets look at Manyoo's 1999 squad.

It contained:

Gary Neville(PFA Team of the year 1999)
David Beckham(2nd best player of the year world AND Europe 1999)
Dwight Yorke(Club record transfer and league golden boot winner 1999)
Peter Schmeichel( UEFA keeper of the year 1998)
Andy Cole(2nd highest goal scorer in the league 1999)
Roy Keane
Ryan Giggs
Paul Scholes
Jaap Stam( UEFA Best defender in Europe 1999)


Yeah this team was really rubbish, and could not have been reasonable expected to win domestically and in Europe.

diggz:


It is so annoying when you choose to be a mind reader instead of just stating you point braaah.....! It is really disgusting I must say,jeez....!

Secondly,stop this useless dragging of names into this discuss abeg! What is this? A PDP vs APC debate or what? The discuss here is about your darling genius called Pep Fruadiola so,stick to the discuss man!.

I am of the opinion you should go check CFCs transfer dealings for the last two seasons lemme see if you will come back spreading same lies....!

Back to the discuss at hand.

I will like to state clearly here,I do not have anything against pep. You can go back a page or two to see my post after yesterdays game however, I do have issues with the myth surrounding him.

I and a barca fan had a bet the order day on this same thread. We agreed to wait till he finishes he tenure at Mancity before we can draw our conclusions. I proposed those terms and will still want to wait till he his through with is tenure at city.

So my thoughts are this; Pep failed at Bayern but,I am willing to wait till after city before I give my judgement on him as a coach. Simples..!

Eastbay:

Oga nobody called them rubbish.
If one begins to hype the above-listed players, will you stake your credibility and concur?
to make matters worse, you are still harping on this club transfer thing.

I tire abeg.

Eastbay:



The point is those players were [size=28pt]rubbish players[/size] and still won the champions league.
you can backtrack and read it again.

Eastbay:

All these Jedi wannabes.

Nihilist:


Your very own words were:


Or was your account hacked like teebillz to write this?

So it begs the question, how could it be that these so called "rubbish players" were actually highly decorated at that particular time in point?

Instead of you to just admit your gaffe, you wanted to start chatting even more bollocks.

You mean the highest goal scorer that season and record signing was rubbish that same season? 2nd best player in the world that season was rubbish? Uefa best defender that year was rubbish?

Nihilist:


They were the best in the league at the time. Stam was actually the UEFA best defender of the year for back to back seasons between 1998 and 2000, and Dwight Yorke finished the season as the highest goal scorer in the league.

diggz:


Which one be jedi wannabes again eastbay? Who u even dey tasi sef,hope no be me o!?

Eastbay:

Na mind-reader I dey refer to.
No be you o. I no want trouble.