sleekdot:
^^ SO why do we have to go by what white people say? Dont you know thats an inherently racist comment

To be white you have to be 100%

To be black you just need a drop of black blood 1%

Why not say It takes two blacks to make a black kid instead of getting all the racially ambiguous people dumped as blacks

I didn't mean to sound racist but that's the reality. You are completely right about the rest.

chic2pimp:
I am not having this list Bar Kanu, George and may be Oliseh. Was Yekini even in Okocha's generation?

Yekini and Okocha overlapped for like 5yrs 1993-98

You mean Taribo a key defender for Inter and AC Milan is debatable? or Yekini or Amunike (African footballer of the year) or the Bull or Cele Babayaro

chic2pimp:


Okocha was not loyal to a fault. No top club wanted him that's the reason why He did not leave Bolton. In the grand scheme of things, Okocha was nothing more than a glorified ball juggler. And No Mikel did not outplay the spanish midfield, He simply had a good game. Much the same way Wilshere did a good game vs Barca a few ago.

Okocha better than Iniesta,Xavi and Pirlo? On what planet? Let him stick to his level with the likes of Denilson,Ortega and co abeg.

d mata tire me oo..truly in d land of d blind,a one eyed man is king...ever wondered y he never won african best?

GBR1:

You shouldn't have said this. Remove Davids and Seedorf from that your list abeg. Their technique was excellent enough and shouldn't even be in question simply because they spent most of their time in defensive positions. If they had played more forward, i doubt their physicality would have been in much review. There are good number of black Dutch players who possessed extremely good technique comparable to those possessed by their white peers.

Did you watch Ruud Gullit play? Was his technique average?
Or have you forgotten about other Dutch players like Kluivert or Rijkaard? Please tell me they were white.
Those are some of the greatest European and dutch players of all time and they were black, simple. What is the percentage of Black folks in the Netherlands' population for them to have contributed so much?

.

Like I said, these guys are exceptions not the norm. We cannot remove Davids and Seedorf from the list because that is precisely the point I'm making - Black People are only found on the pitch in defensive positions or as wingers and fullbacks. Statistically speaking, they are very rarely found in the creative role of any team except mostly African team.

Have you checked the recent Dutch team? Around 50% of the team is Black....check their positions and you will see the pattern you are trying so hard to deny.

Despite the fact that Blacks in the netherlands are a minority...they are Over-represented in the football team...but not in the creative roles.

In the beginning of the 80s, South America had 6 world cup wins (through 3 countries; Brazil, Uruguay and Argentina) while Europe had 5 (through Italy, Germany and England). Get your facts right!
Moreover my assertion even goes beyond just world cup wins. Brazil had a very good league then and the best players in the world then(Brazilians) plied their trade there unlike now the league is just like a feeder for for the top European teams to pluck talent from. White European players though good were quite inferior to black Brazilian players like Garrincha, Pele and co in those days. The gap soon started to narrow and currently the gap has never been so narrow. So my earlier point still holds.

Your original assertion was that South America were the initial kings of football before Europe caught up. That statement is false because as at the start of the 80s, it was 6-6. You need to get your facts right lad. . That doesnt suit the narative about Europe catching up, when European countries were already world powers from the 30s.

Is Sane white?
The population of black folks relative to the overall figure is very low in Germany. Wasn't it even in the beginning of this century that a black player first played in the German national team? Obviously you didn't know this because if you did you'd have realized that your proposition is a joke.

Almost was what I said...So why is it that the only Black players to make the German team are Defenders and Wingers?

Was Eusebio white? He's the greatest Portuguese player ever( though would be very debatable when Ronaldo retires).

I don't even think there are enough black folks in most European countries to affect adequately the generation of players in the national team. With time, you'll see better black players in attack and in almost every position. Black players are over represented in almost every European football team. Can you compare the percentage of black players in those European national teams to the actual percentage of Black people in those countries? You simply can't. Now many of those few black players in those countries might have had to make do with defensive positions because they were in unfair competition with their white counterparts and they would have better chances of becoming a successful footballer if they chose to play in defensive positions that would favor their natural athleticism which is an advantage for them compared to white folks hence the relatively high number of blacks in defensive positions. Some of those black folks could have had very different careers if they weren't black or conversely no career at all because some of those black players might actually not be talented enough to play football but they still end up as professional footballers in these European countries because they still possess a physicality advantage over the white guys.
This whole explanation is complicated but it's very correct and i believe you should be able to understand.

This is exactly the point. The question is WHY? WHY haven't we seen those talented black players? Blacks have been playing in European competion since the 60s so theres been more than ample time for these skillful talents to emerge.

There are over 4 million black and mixed race people living in England today....are you saying this pool is not large enough to generate a crop of exceptional technical talent?

Why isn't there a black version of Wilshere or a Black Rooney? Where is the Black Lampard or Black Gerrard?

Ozil is Turkish which is far enough from being white. Turkey isn't a great footballing nation either.

For the purpose of this discussion Ozil is white. Don't distract from the debate by diving into phenotype. Turkey isn't a great football nation yet they have produced phenomenal talent like Ozil, Arda Turan, Emre Belezoglu, Emre Can, Nuri Sahin.

Where is the black equivalent of this?

That's what i'm asking you now. Can you tell us where all the great black playmakers are hiding?

sleekdot:


Yekini and Okocha overlapped for like 5yrs 1993-98

You mean Taribo a key defender for Inter and AC Milan is debatable? or Yekini or Amunike (African footballer of the year) or the Bull or Cele Babayaro

Nah man I don't consider him part of Okocha's set. During his Best years, Okocha was still an upstart.

How was Taribo a key defender for Milan? Even for Inter sef, I won't consider him a key defender. Amuneke had a fantastic year in 94 but Okocha had numerous ones. On a world level, He might not have one of the greats but when we look at it from an African/Nigerian point of view, He was a legend.

dubylhover:


d mata tire me oo..truly in d land of d blind,a one eyed man is king...ever wondered y he never won african best?

That's the thing with Nigerians. We let emotions cloud our judgement.

Nihilist you have to try and address almost every part or point in my previous post, and not just chose which part you feel you can address. The problem is that my whole piece too strong for you to debate against because you were wrong in the first place and soon you'll run out of things to say.
Just look at this part of my post and tell me how you'll counter it.

Now consider the US a country which has more white people than any European country or even any where in the world? Please show me the technical or talented players there grin
Australia is another good example; the current white people there are descendants of the British. Where are the great players?

nobody respect "agawonder" ? forever 25.

GBR1:
Nihilist you have to try and address almost every part or point in my previous post, and not just chose which part you feel you can address. The problem is that my whole piece too strong for you to debate against because you were wrong in the first place and soon you'll run out of things to say.
Just look at this part of my post and tell me how you'll counter it.

I didn't need to address the rest of your post because it's not particularly relevant to the discussion.

America and Australia are irrelevant to the discussion because both are not big football nations.

Let us focus on the big football nations, with relatively large populations of black people, with ample reprrsention of blacks in domestic competition and at national level, and equal access to top class training.

Australia is big on Rugby union not football. I don't know if you're conversant with the sport(I am) and I will show EXACTLY the same thing happening there...with mainly white playmakers in the middle and blacks mainly on the flanks. Yet you have the likes of Harry Kewell and Tim Cahill who've come out of there. Heck Mile Jedinak is probably better now than any African central midfielder in thr last 5 years.

America is rubbish at football.
Even with that America has produced Clint Dempsey Brad Friedel Kasey Keller. Can you name one black number 10 or goal keeper over the last 10 years who has played at their level?


So I have to ask you again...where is all the black talent hiding?

SIRcumalot:
nobody respect "agawonder" ?
forever 25.

Lol... But the guy tried for naija naa.

chic2pimp:


Nah man I don't consider him part of Okocha's set. During his Best years, Okocha was still an upstart.

[b]How was Taribo a key defender for Milan? Even for Inter sef, I won't consider him a key defender. Amuneke had a fantastic year in 94 [/b]but Okocha had numerous ones. On a world level, He might not have one of the greats but when we look at it from an African/Nigerian point of view, He was a legend.

Sire, with due respect, it's better to keep quiet if you don't know what's up. Taribo was a beast in the best league in the world... Serie A, playing against the likes of Vieri, Zamorano, Silas, Baggio, Zidane, Batistuta, etc.

As for Amunike, as at 1996, he was ahead of Rivaldo at Barcelona before injury ruined his career.



So we are talking of Nigerians at the biggest clubs, not someone that played for Frankfurt or is it Bolton.

Austrians fumbling

Debroslink:
Sire, with due respect, it's better to keep quiet if you don't know what's up. Taribo was a beast in the best league in the world... Serie A, playing against the likes of Vieri, Zamorano, Silas, Baggio, Zidane, Batistuta, etc. He moved from Inter to a bigger club which is Milan, and put the likes of Costacurta to a proper retirement.

As for Amunike, as at 1996, he was ahead of Rivaldo at Barcelona before injury ruined his career.



So we are talking of Nigerians at the biggest clubs, not someone that played for Frankfurt or is it Bolton.

Chickenshrimp knows he is just mischievious

Taribo west in AC and Inter Milan that was a level Okocha never played all his career

SIRcumalot:
nobody respect "agawonder" ?
forever 25.

Maybe he don return to him police work....

I saw one policeman backflipping at Obalende Last week.....probably after collecting #50 Roger.

Diademk07:

Dunno, but they don't look like Arabs to me.
I think the Moroccans looks more like Arabs than the Algerians, especially their hair.
I saw them against Germans at the worldcup and they hardly look like arab.

true !.

the definition of arabs include people who speak arabic as first language , + people genetically arab

algerian , moroccan , tunisian , libyan are not arab genetically , they are berber or amazigh the indigenous ethnic group of North Africa. , after islam came they take islam and arabic language .

so yes north african are arab by language but not arab genetically , you can see the difference when you see a yemenite or saoudian

Debroslink:


Sire, with due respect, it's better to keep quiet if you don't know what's up. Taribo was a beast in the best league in the world... Serie A, playing against the likes of Vieri, Zamorano, Silas, Baggio, Zidane, Batistuta, etc. He moved from Inter to a bigger club which is Milan, and put the likes of Costacurta to a proper retirement.

As for Amunike, as at 1996, he was ahead of Rivaldo at Barcelona before injury ruined his career.



So we are talking of Nigerians at the biggest clubs, not someone that played for Frankfurt or is it Bolton.

You should take your own advice and shut the hell up If you don't know what's gwarning. Not only do you f#$k all about Serie A, you also know absolutely nothing about the club you claim to support.

First of all let me address the Rivaldo issue. Rivaldo in 1996 was still plying his trade in brazil(Did not move to Europe till the summer of 1996). So How the Hell was Amuneke ahead of him?

Now back to Serie A. West played a sum total amount of 4 games for Milan. 4 freaking games! And yet you are telling me He put Billy into retirement. If West had even Half of Billy's talent, Abacha would have built a statue in his honour. Taribo was a very good Defender for Inter but was by no means a "Beast". That Accolade should be reserved for the likes of Bergomi.

Dadehmola:


Maybe he don return to him police work....

I saw one policeman backflipping at Obalende Last week.....probably after collecting #50 Roger.

Gone are the days ti Olopa ma'n gba fiber

Nihilist:


I didn't need to address the rest of your post because it's not particularly relevant to the discussion.

America and Australia are irrelevant to the discussion because both are not big football nations.

It's very relevant. Those are examples of predominantly white nations and the white people there don't agree with your theory. If the biggest white nation (US) can't produce these good white footballers, then why should the likes of Nigeria or Ghana even bother?If Australia can't why should African countries like Malawi, Swaziland, Lesotho, Kenya produce great footballers? Are those ones big footballing nations too?

Let us focus on the big football nations, with relatively large populations of black people, with ample reprrsention of blacks in domestic competition and at national level, and equal access to top class training.

This is basically impossible and it's impratical to focus on something that doesn't exist. Even the most advanced African nations like S/africa or Egypt have very poor leagues, low quality footballing facilities etc. Then we have Nigeria.

Australia is big on Rugby union not football. I don't know if you're conversant with the sport(I am) and I will show EXACTLY the same thing happening there...with mainly white playmakers in the middle and blacks mainly on the flanks.

I have addressed this already. I explained very well.

Yet you have the likes of Harry Kewell and Tim Cahill who've come out of there. Heck Mile Jedinak is probably better now than any African central midfielder in thr last 5 years.

See the kind of rubbish waste men you had to come up with to defend Australia. I could bet you googled at least a name there. I was expecting a list of great players with superb technique and natural ability not those nonentities who are actually some of the best players in Australia abi White people no dey Australia?

America is rubbish at football.

Weak point again. I could use this to defend almost every African country simply by saying they are rubbish at football e.g Kenya, Ethiopia who do well at long distance races than football.

Even with that America has produced Clint Dempsey Brad Friedel Kasey Keller. Can you name one black number 10 or goal keeper over the last 10 years who has played at their level?

Another list of waste men. Can you compare these white players to their contemporaries in Europe?
Henry alone is better than all those players put together. By the time Tim howard retires, he would have had a better career than those guys.

Nihilist take time o.

So I have to ask you again...where is all the black talent hiding?

Are French players like Martial, Conman or Pogba white to you?

GBR1:
It's is very relevant. Those are example of predominantly white nations and the white people there don't agree with your theory. If the biggest white nation (US) can produce these good white footballers, then why should the likes of Nigeria or Ghana even bother?If Autrailia can't why should African countries like Malawi, Swaziland, Lesotho, Kenya produce great footballers? Are those ones big footballing nations too?
This is basically impossible and it's impratical to focus on something that doesn't exist. Even the most advanced African nations like S/africa or Egypt have very poor leagues, low quality footballing facilities etc. Then we have Nigeria.

I have addressed this already. I explained very well.

See the kind of rubbish waste men you had to come up with to defend Australia. I could bet you googled at least a name there. I was expecting a list of great players with superb technique and natural ability not those nonentities who are actually some of the best players in Australia abi White people no dey Australia?
Weak point again. I could use this to defend almost every African country simply by saying they are rubbish at football e.g Kenya, Ethiopia who do well at long distance races than football.
Another list of waste men. Can you compare these white players to their contemporaries in Europe?
Henry alone is better than all those players put together. By the time Tim howard retires, he would have had a better career than those guys.

Nihilist take time o.

Are Martial, Conman and Pogba white to you?

LOL why would I have to Google those names when I've actually seen 1 or two of them play live?

Those guys are relative wastemen no doubt, but they're still better than the next Black number 10...no wait...there aren't any.

That's why I asked you for black equals to those.

Can you give me a Black Brad Friedel? Or a Black Clint Dempsey in the last 10 years? Tim Howard is also American though mixed race. Why isn't there a black analogue of these guys?

Like I've said over and over, Black players are usually defenders, Big bruising midfielders(Pogba) or wingers (Coman and Martial)

Don't you find other strange that we can point to number 10s from almost race except the negro race?

Japan has produced so many....from Nakamura to Kagawa.

Spain, Germany, France, Holland etc all have them Boku.

Even Mkhtaryan from only God knows where follow join.

Yet the only black players we see are big, black, brawny and/or fast playing in every other position except number 10 and creative midfield.

Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys.

The greatest black midfielder of the last 10 years is Yaya Toure and that says it all really.

Nihilist:


Gone are the days ti Olopa ma'n gba fiber

chic2pimp:

You should take your own advice and shut the hell up If you don't know what's gwarning. Not only do you f#$k all about Serie A, you also know absolutely nothing about the club you claim to support.
First of all let me address the Rivaldo issue. Rivaldo in 1996 was still plying his trade in brazil(Did not move to Europe till the summer of 1996). So How the Hell was Amuneke ahead of him?

Pay him no mind - the average "Barka" fan on NL is typically ignorant & Mis-informed

What most of them know how to do best is to shout "up messi", post pictures of the club's trophy haul & ofcourse...mock Ronaldo - 90% of Barca fans on NL started watching soccer when Messi became a household name !!

It's an open secret that Van Gaal's decision to shunt Rivaldo out wide was the main reason behind their fallout but ofcourse, ignorance no gree make the guy sabi.

The fella was even cocky & confident untop the falsehood (born outta sheer ignorance) wey e wan dey spread.

Dadehmola:

The fella was even cocky & confident untop the falsehood (born outta sheer ignorance) wey e wan dey spread.

Dude had me doubting FACTS u know. I had to check again to see if Rivaldo had a twin brother who so happened to be a professional footballer

Nihilist:


Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys.

.

Gustavo take ya time o. No make Sango faya u tonight o

I miss Nani. Heard he's off to Inter Milan.

chic2pimp:



Gustavo take ya time o. No make Sango faya u tonight o

Alie?

I nor know why GBR dey wetin even Stevie Wonder fit see.

Even a dead country like Iceland can point to Siggurdson as Thier 10, and the whole black race can't point to just 1 pure black 10?

Nihilist:

Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys..

Add bloodshot eyes and you have the description of dadehmola posing for pictures on Xmas day. He is the baddoo terrorizing Ikorodu residents as we speak

Nihilist:


Alie?

I nor know why GBR dey wetin even Stevie Wonder fit see.

Even a dead country like Iceland can point to Siggurdson as Thier 10, and the whole black race can't point to just 1 pure black 10?

Tbh I can see both you and GBR1's points.

Don't want to get involved in the argument but the Euro Championship and Copa America are definitely 1million times more enjoyable to watch than the ACON

Nihilist:


LOL why would I have to Google those names when I've actually seen 1 or two of them play live?

Those guys are relative wastemen no doubt, but they're still better than the next Black number 10...no wait...there aren't any.

That's why I asked you for black equals to those.

Can you give me a Black Brad Friedel? Or a Black Clint Dempsey in the last 10 years? Tim Howard is also American though mixed race. Why isn't there a black analogue of these guys?

Like I've said over and over, Black players are usually defenders, Big bruising midfielders(Pogba) or wingers (Coman and Martial)

Don't you find other strange that we can point to number 10s from almost race except the negro race?

Japan has produced so many....from Nakamura to Kagawa.

Spain, Germany, France, Holland etc all have them Boku.

Even Mkhtaryan from only God knows where follow join.

Yet the only black players we see are big, black, brawny and/or fast playing in every other position except number 10 and creative midfield.

Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys.

The greatest black midfielder of the last 10 years is Yaya Toure and that says it all really.

Mikhitaryan isn't a 10 though. The last time he operated as one for Dortmund, he was simply rubbish.
And all these your lists are funny because the likes of Okocha and Zidane trumps all dem Dempsey and the other shite players mentioned.

Reports say MUFC & Zlatan have agreed to personal terms. Medicals slated for after the Euros.

sleekdot:


Add bloodshot eyes and you have the description of dadehmola posing for pictures on Xmas day. He is the baddoo terrorizing Ikorodu residents as we speak

Ode...

I fine pass you oga..

If dem born you well, upload your pix make I upload mine....

chic2pimp:

Tbh I can see both you and GBR1's points.

Don't want to get involved in the argument but the Euro Championship and Copa America are definitely 1million times more enjoyable to watch than the ACON

I've just accepted the black football identity for what it is. GBR1's position is theoretical...There could be black creative types in Africa who didn't get through chance to develop. There could be black creative types who could yet develop in Europe.

But all I can see is the reality of the last few years....tell me that you won't run if you saw Kante, Pogba and Matuidi looking for you at midnight.

Nihilist:


LOL why would I have to Google those names when I've actually seen 1 or two of them play live?

Those guys are relative wastemen no doubt, but they're still better than the next Black number 10...no wait...there aren't any.

Kevin prince Boateng, Nabir Fekir, Mane, Andre Ayew or even Eto, Toure are better 10s than any of the waste men you mentioned. I have given yoi enough names. But why did you have to narrow it down to number 10? I'm gonna end the use of this poor analysis you are employing ridiculous logic to manipulate, just watch.

That's why I asked you for black equals to those.

Can you give me a Black Brad Friedel? Or a Black Clint Dempsey in the last 10 years? Tim Howard is also American though mixed race. Why isn't there a black analogue of these guys?

See above.
I gave you Tim howard, now you're denying he's black when he's know as that in his own country. He's a fecking black american. I won't even debate this any further.

Like I've said over and over, Black players are usually defenders, Big bruising midfielders(Pogba) or wingers (Coman and Martial)

Don't you find other strange that we can point to number 10s from almost race except the negro race?

I don't remember Pogba being deployed as a defensive midfielder. At worse he's a B2B in a pivot. He's actually an attacking midfielder and a very creative one at that but you're only changing the narrative to help pass a point that won't even help you. You are being untruthful here. I just went through your initial posts and i saw how much you have changed the base of the argument. You first stated that blacks were less technically gifted than their white counterpart and that's why they often ended up as defenders or in defensive positions. Then i gave you the list of some of the best attacking talents ever seen who were black and you narrowed your argument to creative midfielders when i have already given you someone like Gullit who was quite extraordinary. Then things got too difficult for you to handle again, so you starting asking for those kind of players in the last 10 years.
I'm sure if we go on, you'll start asking for two footed non athletic very creative black midfielders who have played for top footballing clubs/nations in the last 7 days.

This argument was never gonna work for you and now you have put yourself in a terrible position.

Japan has produced so many....from Nakamura to Kagawa.

More waste men to further your point. What about China or India with more population than the entire Africa? Please name their creative midfielders. Soon you'll say the Indians and Chinese(over 2 billion people combined) are not intelligent enough and Africa has produced far more than them.

[s]Spain, Germany, France, Holland etc all have them Boku. [/s]

Even Mkhtaryan from only God knows where follow join.

Yet the only black players we see are big, black, brawny and/or fast playing in every other position except number 10 and creative midfield.

Every two years AFCON convenes looking like an armed robbers convention, full of brutes in tight jerseys.

The greatest black midfielder of the last 10 years is Yaya Toure and that says it all really.

How many world class players have Armenia produced FFS?
Yaya Toure will retire having a better career playing for top clubs than any of those waste men you mentioned. At least those black players like Viera, Thuram were world class playing at the absolute top level in their positions something none of those waste men you mentioned were capable of.

Nihilist this debate is stale already and i don't see myself going on with it. You haven't brought up anything new that i did not destroy with my first shot at it and i will do similar to any new thing you bring up and if this argument wasn't so ridiculous to begin with, you'll be doing better than this and you know that. Just let it go and move on.

Dadehmola:
Ode...

I fine pass you oga..

If dem born you well, upload your pix make I upload mine....

Upload yours first and let everyone see our face wey be like spoon