Image123:


Don't blow a fuse friend. Calm down and express yourself coherently.

I mentioned God responsible for the deaths of some people and u replied that alcohol, food and machines also cause deaths... Is that a justification?? Because if it is, the deaths caused by Boko Haram can be justified the same way... Get it now??

Image123:


Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

You are not far from being a believer.

This seems like utter crap to me. Can you explain the relevance of this comment??

Image123:


Why do you and dalaman imply that hurricanes and tsunamis are evil? Some people think thunder and lightning is evil, but others harness them.

Well, for starters many lives and properties are destroyed as a result of hurricanes and tsunamis. People lose loved ones, lose investments they have built for years etc

You think hurricanes and tsunamis are good things?

Image123:


Or, so He did exist and died on the cross? Good, very good. Why then do you think that His coming and promise to permanently end tears is mythical?

Why won't it be mythical. People that die remain dead. Remember the same Jesus promised his followers that he'll come back during their lifetime.

promisechuks:

how does claiming that God drank the water relates probability??
That sounds senseless.

Just like a talking donkey.

foladara777:

Don't tell me stories... Let's discuss principles. God stood by and let them die. No purpose is served by the killing of children. And even God had a purpose, the fact that he needed people to die to serve his purpose proves that he's not the almighty because someone that can do all things will not need people to die to achieve his purpose

The purpose of my stories is to elucidate the principles. You say, 'somebody that is almighty can do all things.' If it has to do with things that are outside His character e.g. lying, then maybe I'd have to agree with you that He cannot do all things. No where in that passage is it stated that His purpose was served by the death of the young lads. It only narrates the event. It never went ahead to draw any conclusion or teach a lesson out of it so we don't have the full picture.

It's a pity I don't have my concordance with me now but I know I have checked up that phrase 'little children' before. When I have the chance, I'll look up the phrase.

foladara777:

Man will always make mistakes?? I guess the tsunamis and earthquakes are a result of men's mistakes, right??... In fact, read your bible, Elisha merely cursed the kids, God provided the bears, God murdered those kids... And he doesn't matter what happened previously, killing kids is wrong... Don't even know why you are trying to add to the account of the bible, maybe u should write your own version

You see, the natural disasters are caused by gradual increase in global temperature. This is not God's doing even though people say they are 'acts of God'. Man wanted to run the world independent of God right from the beginning as per biblical records and even till now so I'm not sure why God should take the blame for these happenings. God did not murder the kids as you claim, He didn't. I'm not trying to add to the Bible account. I'm only refusing to narrow the scope of what may have happened.

chrmn1:
You see, the natural disasters are caused by gradual increase in global temperature. This is not God's doing even though people say they are 'acts of God'. Man wanted to run the world independent of God right from the beginning as per biblical records and even till now so I'm not sure why God should take the blame for these happenings. God did not murder the kids as you claim, He didn't. I'm not trying to add to the Bible account. I'm only refusing to narrow the scope of what may have happened.

Wait!! Earthquakes are also caused by gradual increase in temperature?? Or earthquakes are not natural disasters?... And assuming you are right, while make an earth susceptible to increase in temperature if you are an all powerful God?? And plss earthquakes are not caused by man
God murdered those kids. Elisha cursed them and God provided two she-bears to devour 42 of them and believing and abiding strictly by the biblical account of an event is not narrowing... In fact, that's what the bible commands

foladara777:

Wait!! Earthquakes are also caused by gradual increase in temperature?? Or earthquakes are not natural disasters?... And assuming you are right, while make an earth susceptible to increase in temperature if you are an all powerful God?? And plss earthquakes are not caused by man
God murdered those kids. Elisha cursed them and God provided two she-bears to devour 42 of them and believing and abiding strictly by the biblical account of an event is not narrowing... In fact, that's what the bible commands

The conditions of the earth are imperfect. I've explained that this was a direct result of man deciding to run the world independent of God. And it's not only earthquakes, there are at least a thousand and one imperfections in the world today. God did not kill the young lads. God gave Elisha a gift to make declarations and see them come to pass. But Elisha used the gift to curse the young lads and the rest was history

If you say the young guys just came out of the blues and had never met Elisha, you may be wrong because the Bible never said so. That would amount to limiting the scope of all that may have actually gone down leading to the death of the lads. In fact some scholars say that the words, "go up, go up" used by the young guys showed a certain level of knowledge of the prophet displayed by them and was an attempt to mock the event of Elijah ascending and handing over to Elisha. I wouldn't say this is an accurate account but I wouldn't rule it out either. The passage where it says not to add to the scripture actually refers to a revelation given to John (iirc). In any case, I'm not saying this and that happened, I'm only telling you that we don't have the full picture.

foladara777:

Because Matthew 16: 28 says,
28Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in (into) His kingdom.
If Jesus was the real deal, he would have come many years ago in line with his prophecy

dalaman:


Why won't it be mythical. People that die remain dead. Remember the same Jesus promised his followers that he'll come back during their lifetime.

Many people misunderstand Jesus, even His disciples. However some do not want to understand Him, i hope you are not in such class as you will be a total waste of time and space for me. Jesus made specific statements about His second coming that make it clear that it can't be what you think it is.

John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

For instance, in the above passage, some disciples thought Jesus meant that John will not die before the second coming, but John himself says that wasn't what Jesus said or meant.
Jesus CLEARLY said no one, not even Him knows when He's coming except God the Father. Why people like you choose to ignore or disbelieve something so clear and specific is beyond me. You choose to believe what you want to for your own perceived gain, not for truth or understanding.

hahn:


Well, for starters many lives and properties are destroyed as a result of hurricanes and tsunamis. People lose loved ones, lose investments they have built for years etc

You think hurricanes and tsunamis are good things?

foladara777:

I mentioned God responsible for the deaths of some people and u replied that alcohol, food and machines also cause deaths... Is that a justification?? Because if it is, the deaths caused by Boko Haram can be justified the same way... Get it now??

That something causes death doesn't mean that that something is evil. That's why i mentioned other things that cause deaths, even more deaths annually than tsunamis and hurricanes. Hahn, if no life or property was lost in a tsunami or hurricane but it was only observed from far, would you consider it as evil? Are volcanic eruptions and other mountain building processes evil? Are you superstitious or just a freelance thinker? Why do you think death is evil?

foladara777:

This seems like utter crap to me. Can you explain the relevance of this comment??

i would have been confused if you were not confused.
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Image123:



That something causes death doesn't mean that that something is evil. That's why i mentioned other things that cause deaths, even more deaths annually than tsunamis and hurricanes. Hahn, if no life or property was lost in a tsunami or hurricane but it was only observed from far, would you consider it as evil? Are volcanic eruptions and other mountain building processes evil? Are you superstitious or just a freelance thinker? Why do you think death is evil?

Guy answer my question first

You think hurricanes and tsunamis are good things? Yes or no

You can go on further to explain their benefits to humanity and the victims of these god made beauties

Image123:



Many people misunderstand Jesus, even His disciples. However some do not want to understand Him, i hope you are not in such class as you will be a total waste of time and space for me. Jesus made specific statements about His second coming that make it clear that it can't be what you think it is.

John 21:22 Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. 21:23 Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee?

For instance, in the above passage, some disciples thought Jesus meant that John will not die before the second coming, but John himself says that wasn't what Jesus said or meant.
Jesus CLEARLY said no one, not even Him knows when He's coming except God the Father. Why people like you choose to ignore or disbelieve something so clear and specific is beyond me. You choose to believe what you want to for your own perceived gain, not for truth or understanding.

Jesus never said he was coming back in 2000 years time. He mentioned more than once that he'll come back during the life time of his disciples. He even told someone specifically that the person will see him coming from the clouds. Bit as usual no body understands the words of Jesus only image123

chrmn1:
The conditions of the earth are imperfect. I've explained that this was a direct result of man deciding to run the world independent of God. And it's not only earthquakes, there are at least a thousand and one imperfections in the world today. God did not kill the young lads. God gave Elisha a gift to make declarations and see them come to pass. But Elisha used the gift to curse the young lads and the rest was history

If you say the young guys just came out of the blues and had never met Elisha, you may be wrong because the Bible never said so. That would amount to limiting the scope of all that may have actually gone down leading to the death of the lads. In fact some scholars say that the words, "go up, go up" used by the young guys showed a certain level of knowledge of the prophet displayed by them and was an attempt to mock the event of Elijah ascending and handing over to Elisha. I wouldn't say this is an accurate account but I wouldn't rule it out either. The passage where it says not to add to the scripture actually refers to a revelation given to John (iirc). In any case, I'm not saying this and that happened, I'm only telling you that we don't have the full picture.

Plss biblical reference for natural disasters bring as a result of man deciding to run the world independent of God, u are a Christian, back your claims up
And as regards the Elisha story, it doesn't matter if they had met before... It's wrong to kill children and it's also wrong to stand by and let children die

Image123:



That something causes death doesn't mean that that something is evil. That's why i mentioned other things that cause deaths, even more deaths annually than tsunamis and hurricanes. Hahn, if no life or property was lost in a tsunami or hurricane but it was only observed from far, would you consider it as evil? Are volcanic eruptions and other mountain building processes evil? Are you superstitious or just a freelance thinker? Why do you think death is evil?

This is crazy?? Alcohol give pleasure, food sustains life and machines make work easier... What good do tsunamis do?? ... Am beginning to think you are as sadistic as your God

dalaman:


Jesus never said he was coming back in 2000 years time. He mentioned more than once that he'll come back during the life time of his disciples. He even told someone specifically that the person will see him coming from the clouds. Bit as usual no body understands the words of Jesus only image123

Where did He say these? Of course, a human is more likely to understand human communication better than an animal will. The words of Jesus are spirit and life, i understand them better than a sinner does. It's commonsense.

Image123:


Where did He say these? Of course, a human is more likely to understand human communication better than an animal will. The words of Jesus are spirit and life, i understand them better than a sinner does. It's commonsense.

Matthew 16: 28 I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
So u don't even read your bible?? There are three other places he said this... Even your Jesus no be original prophet sef

foladara777:

Matthew 16: 28 I assure you that there are some here who will not die until they have seen the Son of Man come as King.”
So u don't even read your bible?? There are three other places he said this... Even your Jesus no be original prophet sef

That's not referring to the Second coming but to the transfiguration which happened about a week after. About the period of the second coming, Jesus said even He doesn't know the time, have you ever read that or you don't want to?

hahn:


Guy answer my question first

You think hurricanes and tsunamis are good things? Yes or no

You can go on further to explain their benefits to humanity and the victims of these god made beauties

Hopefully, you'd answer mine and stop being the accidental superstitious atheist. A hurricane is a huge storm wind, a tsunami is a sea wave caused by the displacement of a large volume of water. It is like asking me if thunder, lightning, cyclone are good or bad. Wind and rain and rock forming processes are natural phenomena. You are no different from my superstitious friend that opines that a small cyclone is caused by evil women in the village. If you stay in its path, it can cause harm, same with lightning, hurricanes and tsunamis. Even rain can kill you if you are not careful. Rain fell last week that brought down poles some streets away from me. Life could have been involved, does that make rain evil? Now answer my questions.

Image123:


Where did He say these? Of course, a human is more likely to understand human communication better than an animal will. The words of Jesus are spirit and life, i understand them better than a sinner does. It's commonsense.

You dont understand them better than anybody. You just simply choose to twist them to conform to your beliefs.

Matt 10: 21-23.
21. Brother will deliver brother over to death, and the father his child, and children will rise against parents and have them put to death, 22 and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. 23 When they persecute you in one town, flee to the next, for truly, I say to you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes

He clearly told his desciples that they will suffer persecution but they should keep running from one town to another, before they finish going through the towns of Israel he will return. That was 2000 years ago.

foladara777:

This is crazy?? Alcohol give pleasure, food sustains life and machines make work easier... What good do tsunamis do?? ... Am beginning to think you are as sadistic as your God

As in ehn. A classic case of common sense dumped out of the window

Image123:


That's not referring to the Second coming but to the transfiguration which happened about a week after. About the period of the second coming, Jesus said even He doesn't know the time, have you ever read that or you don't want to?

Christians are the most dishonest people of all time... The verse says "until you have seen the son of man COME as KING" plss explain how he came as long during the transfiguration. Other verses that contain this prophecy are here:
“Then they will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. And then He will send forth the angels, and will gather together His elect from the four winds, from the farthest end of the earth to the farthest end of heaven. Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near. Even so, you too, when you see these things happening, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place…“ (Mark 13:26-30)
And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near; so, you too, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near, right at the door. Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.“ (Matthew 24: 25-34)
Oya, interpret these verses as transfiguration too, I dare you!!

Image123:

Hopefully, you'd answer mine and stop being the accidental superstitious atheist. A hurricane is a huge storm wind, a tsunami is a sea wave caused by the displacement of a large volume of water. It is like asking me if thunder, lightning, cyclone are good or bad. Wind and rain and rock forming processes are natural phenomena. You are no different from my superstitious friend that opines that a small cyclone is caused by evil women in the village. If you stay in its path, it can cause harm, same with lightning, hurricanes and tsunamis. Even rain can kill you if you are not careful. Rain fell last week that brought down poles some streets away from me. Life could have been involved, does that make rain evil? Now answer my questions.

You are missing the whole point and an wondering if it's deliberate... Did God create the earth? Yes, at least to you. Is the earth perfect? No. Did God have the power to create a perfect earth?? If yes, then God is not good, if No, then God is not omnipotent

foladara777:

Plss biblical reference for natural disasters bring as a result of man deciding to run the world independent of God, u are a Christian, back your claims up
And as regards the Elisha story, it doesn't matter if they had met before... It's wrong to kill children and it's also wrong to stand by and let children die

Okay let's look at this passage together.

Romans 8:19-22:
"For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly (personifying the creation), but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

From this passage, we can see the that the consequence of death spilled over to the creation. Of course death here speaks of anything that has to do with decay, disease, corruption and all such things. So in simple terms the Bible teaches that everything wrong in the world is a consequence of man neglecting the leadership of God.

Regarding Elisha, the killing of the young lads was just as wrong as a young man standing in the middle of the road and damning the consequences. Was it a display of ignorance or rebellion? I cannot tell for sure as this was not clearly stated but I believe if the guys were trying to discredit the power of God and the unfortunate happened to them, they could only have themselves to blame just like the guy that stands in the middle of the road and thinks he can always get away with it, perhaps because he did same yesterday.

chrmn1:
Okay let's look at this passage together.

Romans 8:19-22:
"For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly (personifying the creation), but because of him who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now."

From this passage, we can see the that the consequence of death spilled over to the creation. Of course death here speaks of anything that has to do with decay, disease, corruption and all such things. So in simple terms the Bible teaches that everything wrong in the world is a consequence of man neglecting the leadership of God.

Regarding Elisha, the killing of the young lads was just as wrong as a young man standing in the middle of the road and damning the consequences. Was it a display of ignorance or rebellion? I cannot tell for sure as this was not clearly stated but I believe if the guys were trying to discredit the power of God and the unfortunate happened to them, they could only have themselves to blame just like the guy that stands in the middle of the road and thinks he can always get away with it, perhaps because he did same yesterday.

1. So two adults ate the forbidden fruit thousands of years ago and so babies and toddlers deserve to die gruesome deaths today?? That's basically what you are saying.
2. Your analogy to a person standing in the middle of the road is not relevant. Why? Because, it's reasonably expected that a person that stands in the middle of the road is likely to get hit by a moving vehicle but some kids laughing at a man don't expect to be torn to pieces by bears... Again, if a person driving a vehicle intentionally hits a person in the middle of the road, its wicked and that person is not a good person. So your analogy fails on both counts. Sorry, try again

foladara777:

1. So two adults ate the forbidden fruit thousands of years ago and so babies and toddlers deserve to die gruesome deaths today?? That's basically what you are saying.
2. Your analogy to a person standing in the middle of the road is not relevant. Why? Because, it's reasonably expected that a person that stands in the middle of the road is likely to get hit by a moving vehicle but some kids laughing at a man don't expect to be torn to pieces by bears... Again, if a person driving a vehicle intentionally hits a person in the middle of the road, its wicked and that person is not a good person. So your analogy fails on both counts. Sorry, try again

2.You see, if the idea of the young lads acting in knowledge and rebellion as indicated in their words, 'go up,go up you bald one' is anything to go by, then they can only have themselves to blame, knowing the danger of their actions and still going ahead to test the man of God similar to the guy standing in the middle of the road just to
catch his fun.

1. Yeah that's the consequence of man not accepting God's leadership and deciding to cede his legal authority to the one called 'the evil one'. Whoever rules calls the shots. I would have shown you a few scriptures but my phone battery is low. This is far from the ideal situation God wants and so He says to prayer that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So all that He's doing at present is redemptive. That's why He's asking you and I to yield ourselves to Him so that He can through us, intervene in this fallen world.

chrmn1:

2.You see, if the idea of the young lads acting in knowledge and rebellion as indicated in their words, 'go up,go up you bald one' is anything to go by, then they can only have themselves to blame, knowing the danger of their actions and still going ahead to test the man of God similar to the guy standing in the middle of the road just to
catch his fun.

1. Yeah that's the consequence of man not accepting God's leadership and deciding to cede his legal authority to the one called 'the evil one'. Whoever rules calls the shots. I would have shown you a few scriptures but my phone battery is low. This is far from the ideal situation God wants and so He says to prayer that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven. So all that He's doing at present is redemptive. That's why He's asking you and I to yield ourselves to Him so that He can through us, intervene in this fallen world.

Really, kids are supposedly rebelling and the first thing is to condemn them to gruesome deaths?? He's God not a good god anymore?? Can u as a human being with flaws even throw one kid into a cage with a lion?? Answer this question
The length u Christians go to defend your God, u look like very wicked people. So because of some past events the death of children by hunger is okay... Your God is a sadistic serial killer, deal with it

foladara777:

Really, kids are supposedly rebelling and the first thing is to condemn them to gruesome deaths?? He's God not a good god anymore?? Can u as a human being with flaws even throw one kid into a cage with a lion?? Answer this question
The length u Christians go to defend your God, u look like very wicked people. So because of some past events the death of children by hunger is okay... Your God is a sadistic serial killer, deal with it

Brotherly, God never killed the lads

chrmn1:
Brotherly, God never killed the lads

No, he didn't. He only sat back and allowed them be devoured by bears... God is good! All the time!!

foladara777:

No, he didn't. He only sat back and allowed them be devoured by bears... God is good! All the time!!

If the thought that the young lads did what they did in knowledge and rebellion, they have themselves to blame. No one sees fire and walks into it but if anyone chooses to do this it's only fair that they bear the consequences.

Image123:

Hopefully, you'd answer mine and stop being the accidental superstitious atheist. A hurricane is a huge storm wind, a tsunami is a sea wave caused by the displacement of a large volume of water. It is like asking me if thunder, lightning, cyclone are good or bad. Wind and rain and rock forming processes are natural phenomena. You are no different from my superstitious friend that opines that a small cyclone is caused by evil women in the village. If you stay in its path, it can cause harm, same with lightning, hurricanes and tsunamis. Even rain can kill you if you are not careful. Rain fell last week that brought down poles some streets away from me. Life could have been involved, does that make rain evil? Now answer my questions.

Hahn ohhhhh, i answered you and you disappeared, refusing to answer moi.